Who Moved My Cheese? ~ Spencer Johnson, MD ~ 6/00 Export

"CHEESE" a metaphor for what we want in life!
The MAZE is where you look for what you want -
Your Family, Community, where you Work.
Having the CHEESE Makes You Happy
If they'd just stop moving the CHEESE!
The More Important Your CHEESE Is To You The More You Want To hold On to It.

A relationship (child...friend...family member to love)
Travel (when...where...adventure...luxury...learning...spa)
My home (bigger...smaller...organized...remodeled...town...rural)
Health (aging makes our beloved health impermanent)
A job, what skills do I share (paid...volunteer)
Spiritual peace of mind - Faith to choose and savor life.
Physical activity (more golf...boating...fishing...hiking...walking...yoga...gym)
A new habit (what...by when)
Hobby (more time...skill...additional or better tools...materials)

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Who Moved My Cheese
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Everyone...Welcome at anytime!
What does this little story mean
and how are we going to use it in our lives!

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Barbara St. Aubrey

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I don't know if I'll get the book but I'm looking forward to lurking here.

Robby

Thanks Robby-- if you get to a book store you could probably sit in the store and read this one in an hour or two-- it is only 90 some pages-- but loaded. Everyone can easily see which character they are more like; Sniff, Scurry, Hem or Haw. It is really a cute story.

Robby do you have some dream you would like to acheive? From the list above I have about three broad areas I would like to achieve. I know, I know one at a time.

Barbara:

I'm happy now so I don't need a dream in order to become happy but I am constantly working toward "spiritual peace." I will never arrive at perfection in that area but the "journey is the joy."

Robby

"Spiritual Peace" - oh my Robby yes! To me peace is freedom from pain although the dictionary seems to refer to "Peace" as the absence of war or hostilities. I wonder how much freedom from emotional pain is tied to Spiritual Peace? For most of my life when things felt so dark or painful, I've always turned to Saint John of The Cross and his writting, especially, "Ascent of Mount Carmel" and "Dark Night of the Soul."

This book, "Who Moved My Cheese?"is not necessarily a study of theology but your desire has opened my thoughts to what "Spiritual Peace" really is and how can it be attained. Yes, I like to 'know' and 'understand' and then I churn with questions till I remind myself to re-read what St. John says:

For, as we have said, the soul is not united with God in this life through understanding, nor through enjoyment, nor through the imagination, nor through any sense whatsoever; but only through faith, according to the memory; and through love, according to the will.

...Faith is understanding, causes an emptiness in the will and detachment from all affection and from rejoicing in all that is not God. ...faith tells us what cannot be understood with understanding...This we interpret as meaning that faith is the substance of things hoped for;... not things that are revealed to understanding, since, if they were revealed, there would be no faith. So Faith, although it brings certainty to understanding, brings not clearness, but obscurity.

...For hope always relates to that which is not possessed; for, if it were possessed, there would be no more hope...Hope that is seen is not hope; for what a man seeth- that is, what a man possesseth- how doth he hope for it? This virtue, then, also produces emptiness, for it has to do with that which is not possessed, and not seen...Hope that which is seen is memory...

Similarity, charity causes emptiness in the will... since it obliges us to love God above all; which cannot be unless we withdraw our affection from all not set wholly upon God.

And here we must consider that parable which our Redeemer related in the eleventh chapter of Saint Luke,... a friend had to go out at midnight in order to ask his friend for three loaves, which the loaves signify these three virtues. And he asked for them at midnight in order to signify that the soul is in darkness to all things, and must acquire these three virtues according to its faculties and must perfect itself in them in this night.

...For this is the spiritual night; the soul does that which in it lies that which in order to enter...in the night... with regard to desire, so that the soul might go forth...against the efficacy of self-love and its ramifications, which is wont most subltly to deceive and hinder spiritual persons on their road... to enter the state of contemplation...with detachment and purity of the three faculties of the soul and for this is necessary a far greater knowledge and spirituality than mine,...in this night we have to abandon the faculty of understanding or between that which a man tries to attain and effect.

Thank you Robby, without your post I would not have reminded myself with this review of my polestar St. John of the Cross, in what room my cheese is located. The night at times is scary and than it is too easy to calm my fears with other attachments rather then stopping and contemplating or meditating till I am in touch with a spiritual direction rather than being self directed.

I think for me I have finally come to realize without a body nothing of God or of my soul, my spirit can be manifested. Taking care of my body with proper foods and exercise has always been my big bugaboo. Just getting past the machismo concept of treating my body as a strong container, as if that is a "given" is difficult for me, let alone accepting it as OK, and in fact desirable, to take care of my body above all else. Lots of issues here for me but that is a new room of cheese I need to find and feast in.

What an interesting pre discussion and heading, just love that heading! I've just completed reading the book for the second time and I see things in it that I didn't the first time, so it's possibly not too good to read it too quickly.

A very interesting treatise on how we react to what happens to us in life and what WE consider to be the "cheese," the rewards in life. I liked it very much and see something of myself in all the four little characters illustrated, I think it will make a fascinating discussion!

ginny

Hay Ginny, Thanks for peaking in... it is a delightful book isn't it? I too return to it as I see how it can be a uselful guide for so many areas of my life. I see now that if each new day is just that, new, then it means we really need to accept that we will find our cheese in a new way or in a new place each day of our lives. I guess Change comes with waking up in the morning.

Bought the book. Read it. Underthrilled, but on board for the discussion.

Oh good Mary - you are always such a great addition to our discussing any book. Interesting you found it, "unthrilled"-"ing" Are you saying your find your cheese in the same rooms you are used to finding it? Or is the concept just old hat?

Mary Page, fabulous, you don't have to like a book to discuss it, this will be great!

ginny

There are some changes that I like. I like to move my furniture around. So if I move my cheese, what happens is I find things, I clean up things, and I look from a new prospective. If someone else moves the furniture? Well I am furious of course. Someone moved my cheese. LOL

What I would like is better bones and muscles. My body is o.k. but I would like not to have sore anything. Now what am I willing to do to achieve that? The thing I hate the most...excercise! It is a choice of excercising and feeling like I am going to die. And not excercising and feeling like I would rather die. Logically I would choose doing what is good for me, but I still hate excercise. So how to get over the hate?

Sage

Sage

OOhhhh Sage welcome to the club-- I too would like a strong and healthy body and I know exercise will do it but ohhhhhhh. I must say I love to swim and now that the pools are opened no matter how heavy I look, my mental excuse is, I am an old lady so what! I did go swimming last evening. Our pool is opened for laps only, from 7:00-9:00 -- nice, no families or little ones. I love little ones but it is hard to get a swim in since they are all over the pool.

I've been putting my mind to this dilemma and a thought-- if you are like me exercise is like taking my medicine as a child. I don't want it, it tastes awful as my mother tried to spoon the dreaded stuff into my tightly pursed lips. Some how I think that this being active must be thought of as not something good for me but something that is fun that I want to do and therefore finding an activity that is fun may be the answer. Also, if exercise is thought of as something 'good' for me it feels like a 'have to do' and yet brushing my teeth is something 'good' for me and I do not rebel against it??

Barbara, I found the book condescending, but I hate to criticize what is obviously a fairly successful effort to imbue readers with some important attitudes.

Probably because I was an Army Brat, I had to learn to deal with change from a very early age. Fear is a challenge to be overcome in my personal lexicon. That plus being something of a pain-in-the-butt perfectionist, a get-it-done-yesterday type, and orderly almost to extremism, well, the book was sort of preaching to the choir in my case.

I'll hold off further comments 'til we read along together.

Well Mary what are you willing to do to be less of a pain-in-the-butt perfectionist? Or are you satisfied to be so? Has that attitude caused you to lose friends or family? Is perfectionism a problem to other people around you? How do you like or dislike yourself for being so? Would you like to be more spontaneous and carefree? Would like to learn to play like a child again? How long has it been since you flew a kite, splash in water, blew bubbles, climbed a tree, put on roller skates, jumped rope, wrote a silly story, chewed gum or made a mess? The joys of being a kid again.

Sage

Oh, Sage, I am very flexible and carefree. Being a perfectionist has nothing to do with those things. There is an impish child in me at all times and I am quite able to take things on at the spur of the moment or join in a last minute escapade.

And I do not look for perfection in others. It is just that I must DO every task I take on perfectly. It is in myself only that I demand perfection. Probably a reflection of my authoritarian father expecting it of me. My 3 daughters share the trait, my son does not. Most of the things you list I can no longer do due to my arthritis. But I DO have fun!

No, my perfectionism has lost me no family or friends that I know of. It has gained me most appreciative bosses and given me wonderful part time employment at 71! When I do a thing, it is done right!

Well I did it right tonite!! No more of my beloved swimming for awhile-- sheesh. Can't even have the memory of a good time playing. I've been working so hard putting in so many long hours that I've become really tired. Whenever I get that kind of tired, sure enough if i don't meet the sidewalk someplace. Finished early finally-- stopped and actually shopped for groceries, set-up the soaker hose on my parched lawn, walked to the door and down I went with arms extended.

After a hot bath in epsom salts my arm really hurt so, over to the minor emergency-- I've broken 4 bones in my left arm with one of the long bones in my forearm broken in two places. Now I am really going to have to sniff and scurry and find cheese in new and different places. Darn I really enjoyed that swim last night-- no use in bemoaning and being like Hem. Must say I had to quickly figure out how to put on my bra but I'm at a loss how to put-up my hair. I wear it in a sort of twist held with decorated chop sticks.

Sounds like you Mary were actually trained to be a scurry.

I know I seldom sniff but at times I do scurry. Often as not I act like Haw and some times I can't accept that things I depended on are no longer there or, there as I remembered it and I brood as a Hem, taking years to move on. The issues around my divorce often brought out the Hem in me. How could this be was the lament.

Come to think of it, like you Sage, I too sniff for answers when something isn't comfortable or easy to change like this 'I should exercise' mentality.

Barbara, this is a real bummer!

I feel for your inconvenience and pain, not to mention the bills. Sounds like a time to slow down and rearrange your hours.

Would like to hand you a bouquet of daisies to cheer you up and to say I am so sorry this has happened to you.

Thanks Mary-- I can see the daisies-- how bright and happy daisies are. So far Bill has not too bad $180. The next bit may be the real bummer-- an orthopedic man!!

There are so many things I need to catch up on and so here is my chance. I still haven't finished my taxes but today I am sort of wrung out. So glad it is thursday since tonight on PBS is Mystery Theater followed by the Brit Coms.

BARBARA!!! For heaven's sake, I am so sorry to hear your news, please take care and get well soon, ouch ouch ouch!!!!

Do you want to defer this discussion into July?

Love, ginny

Let's go on but I think I will put HP off till the end of the month. And the mazes change...

I've just finished the book... I don't usually go for this type of self/situation improvement book, but it was interesting.

I love change... You can't walk through my house in the dark, because I've probably moved the furniture again.

When we were farmers and at the mercy of the weather, change was name of the game. If the price of hogs went up, hurry to get them on the market. If the rains didn't come for the corn, tear up the field and plant late soybeans.

Change has carried over into my retired life.. I have to have something new all the time. A new hobby, travel, volunteer job, anything different. (computers have been the center of my interest for 20 years... probably the longest running interest I've had.)

But I'm married to a Hem, which slows down my quest for change.. To get off the place out, of the rut, I have to nag, negotiate, propagandize, and plan.

Exercise... I like... The pool where I used to swim has been closed. But I do a lot of walking. Vertigo has not stopped me for the past 20 years.

Mary... Nothing wrong with a perfectionist... I could sure stand a little of that in my life.

Barbara... Change? WOW... What a Challenge for you. Time to wear short hair? Pull on skirts and pants? Clogs? And a hair dryer that blows just air for your cast. More calcium in the diet and a bone-density test to check for possiblity of more breaks.

I second Pat regarding that bone density test, Barbara!

Hope you are pain free, mending fast and finding plenty of Joy in your days.

Never heard of bone density tests-- thanks for the tip. And Pat why an air blower for my cast?

Tomorrow ex-rays will be back and I'll be arranging for a permanent cast. Except for a very few things, I seem to manage OK but sleeping is a challenge, since I have always slept on my left side. On my back and my lungs don't work and on my right side my sinus fills allowing no clear breathing along with sinus pain waking me again every two hours-- between all the extra effort to 'do' and waking every two hours I'm bushed.

But then I'm catching up on reading and visiting on the phone with so many as they hear the news. Had someone french braid my hair to get it out of the way. I've got my fingers crossed this ends up only being the typical 6 week cast. A few prayers would help folks?

And yes, the calcium tablets are in the kitchen so that I won't forget to take them! I let down on my veggies this past year and as we know the broccoli is high in calcium. Rather than beat upon myself I need to remember it was the cement driveway I hit, not dirt, grass nor even ashfalt and so a break was inevitable.

Anyone past 55 should be aware that the assimilation of calcium into bone diminishes.. Estrogen can help and fosamax (sp) are also prescribed.

The blow dryer helps dry the perspiration that accummulates with a permanent cast. It relieves the itching. Straightened coat hangars work for itching, but are frowned upon by the Dr.

Benadryl for sleeping... Not habit forming and will help cut down on the sinus drainage

Aha and ah so...I will resurrect my blow dryer! Thanks Haw/Pat!

Tomarrow is our start day - In the meantime I have completed a book by Jeff Shapiro that takes place in modern Tuscany, Italy that has put a new concept on the journey finding cheese after it has been moved. The book Renato's Luck is a warm pleasureable story that speaks to this issues of change and loosing ones 'taste for life' and the hope that bubbles in spite of our despair. There are so many great quotes from this book that I plan on sharing and recommend y'all reading Renato's Luck for a more gentle and wise way that a character is drawn depicting the role of Haw.

After reading Shapiro's book I am now doubting the wisdom of desiring to proudly act as Scurry. That behavior is now, to me, verging on the obsessive as compared to the many quotes that say the 'journey' is the prize. In Renato's case his journey brought him to a better understanding of himself. He found his understanding, life's endless process of rebirth, his own homemade pecorino cheese with honey and pepper, by reflecting on history and nature and helping those he loves speak about their loses, encouraging them to their rebirth by paying attention to what they were saying.

I can see the simple story of Who Moved My Cheese? fleshed out in many ways.

I've been looking at the parallels between the two books and one of the exchanges Renato has with Signora Tita Vezzosi when, after her husband of 50 years dies and she is alone and is feeling alone, they visit exchanging her hommade wine for Renato's cheese. Renato is wanting to help Tita feel better so that she can 'keep going' as she says. He gets the idea to add her to his journey to meet and shake hands with the Pope based on a dream that he believes is instructing him to do just that. Her name is written on a scrape of paper that held his cheese. The last thought written in the chapter is

Then the sense of responsibility arouse in his head and weighed on his mind. He felt the seriousness of his mission. Another person's destiny was at stake as well as his own...

Not too different then how Haw must have felt urging Hem to accompany him on a journey through the maze to find the new room of cheese.

Hey, Barb, so glad to see this starting up, I haven't read the other book and so can't make any comparisons, but of all the four characters here in the Cheese book I'm afraid I would most be like Hem. (Isn't he the one who stayed home and pouted and demanded?) It's funny how the author has caught the reactions of people in life, and I wonder if we tend to always act the same way, regardless of what the change in CHEESE status is.

One thing that interested me in the book was that no person or mouse ever apparently questioned where the cheese itself came from, who brought it there, why it was there at all. That speaks to me, anyway, volumes. I could be wrong.

I know several people have the book, and am looking forward to a great discussion.

Hem

Hmmm you are so right Ginny about where did the cheese come from. That is why this other book has been so meaningful to me. It has filled out Spencer Johnson's simple story and made it come to life for me. I wonder though do you think we always act as one of the character? My thought is that according to the situation we act out one of the characters with the lesson being we have all those skills that each mouse and little person displays but we may not be using them when the cheese seems allusive.

I like the concept that the cheese is simply the tastes of life available and in order to not disappear we need to eat...some cheese.

I just realized this discussion had officially started, so must get back and read the preceeding posts and be up to date.

š...jane›

Hi Barbara: I will read the book at breakfast in the morning, as I'm alone this weekend - sent the spouse off fishing. He's happy, I'm happy! This is usually not my type of book, but I'll try it.

Just finished reading all the posts and so sorry about your arm. Are you managing all right now? Can you drive? Anymore, people are driving all the time with one hand and the other holding a phone or eating something, unless it's the left one which may be a trifle difficult?

The first three things listed I feel blessed with: love, travel, and a home. I have accepted that health is affected with age, there's just no escape and complaints do not make the problems disappear, my hope is I can do the twilight years gracefully.

Are we to take each of those items you have listed and give opinions? Perhaps I'll know more tomorrow after reading this little book and, I note, that Ginny says one must read it twice. I'll do that after talking it over a bit.

Sayonara!

Ella so glad to see you posting in this discussion - arm getting better and it was my left arm so I am driving - a cute story that took me awhile for it all to sink in. The list above were just ideas for hunks of cheese that folks may want more of or, the experiences they have had with those catagories has changed.

At first when I read the story I was thinking the Big goal or dream. Now that I have realized the symbol of cheese, something solid that is from the milk of the earth (cows or goats eat grass) I am beginning to realize eating cheese is symbolic of tasting life and if you don't eat often you die or disappear.

So now I am comtemplating the little things in life that give me pleasure but more than just pleasure a solid basic thought or activity maybe salty, maybe creamy, maybe hard, maybe new, maybe old that gives me a taste of life that allows me to be connected and not just doing what is expected.

I used to feel great joy, fun and adventure with my grandchildren who are now beginning to want to be cool and with their friends and are not as easily thrilled by playing with grandma or my reading them a story. I also have a wonderful friend, who until recently I wasn't aware of the difference in our age (15 years) and now because of her husbands health and her in-ability to do the things we did, our friendship time is changing. My work is interesting, satisfying and a challange but not as tasty. I'm not feeling the kind of excitment because of my achievments at work as I once experienced. Also, because of the long hours my work requires I haven't really gardened like I did and living alone I no longer can or make jams or even give dinner parties, all things I really enjoyed.

I believe my pile of cheese has dwindled and I need to hit the maze and find a new pile or a new room with the joyful, earthy taste of life.

Cheese, bread and wine have historically always symbolized the basics of life's foods and I can see some of my basics have been 'changing.' I see now that it is easy to avoid looking at making a change because that which you love you have to accapt is really impermanent and that thought is terrifying. It is hard to accept changing, forming new attachments knowing all beloved attachments are impermanent. And yet, without eating you die or your soul dies, your sense of joy and what makes you tick dies as Hem will, since he won't leave his old disappeared mound or room of cheese.

So many things change all the time in life. Children grow up and become independent and contact with them changes. The physical care they needed when they are babies becomes emotional concerns when they are older and living an another town with their own families and jobs. Then comes the time when as children we are concerned about our aging parents. I just came back from 3 days in Chicago visiting my mother who will be 91 August 1. Her sister will be 93 in December and another sister will be 86 in July. The three sisters are very close and are all that is left living of a family of six children. I was very pleased to find that she was doing well, except for her arthritis. She lives alone and has for 9 years. She has help come in 3 mornings a week and plays bridge a couple of times a week. She still enjoys listening to the radio and does not have a computer, not even WebTV. I realized that that really doesn't fit into her life and that is OK. I was pleased to be there to see what is really happening in her life right now. Phone calls are not very satisfying.

I suppose that the things that has been the most aggravating lately falls under the category of Home. We have a gardener who comes once a week to cut the grass and clean up the leaves that fall from our large Camphor trees all year long. The last time he was here was May 29. The front lawn looked like a wheat field. He had been modifying our sprinkler system and half of it wasn't working in the extreme heat we had. Yesterday he finally came. Now to see if he really fixed the sprinklers or not. I wonder why we can't seem to get dependable service people?

Certainly Health is a goal and I am healthier than ever right now and I know that can change in a minute. I think I am always alert about changes in my health.

I think maybe there are many different "cheeses" in my life and with some of them, like Health, I anticipate change and with others I wait until I can't stand it anymore, like depending on the gardener. When I feel I have given him enough rope, I start phoning and phoning and phoning. That doesn't work well.

Marjorie

Barbara, yes, I identify with several things you mentioned, particularly that of a dear friend. Both of us just took for granted our friendship would never change. While we were young newlyweds we shared tears together over what we later laughed about, shared concerns with teenagers and then started taking weekend trips together and we had a ball. And then, change. Her husband died. We are no longer couples. She has no interest in doing anything new and is despondent much of the time. I call her now and then and we do still see each other occasionally, but life is not the same.

Marjorie - that's grand your mother is doing fairly well at her age. We all, I think, are living longer and consequently will have more adjustments than the previous generations; possibly more problems I don't know. We can speculate about that forever, I would think.

After the furnace man left this morning, banging away at a job Dick ordered, and the watering was done, phone calls answered, I did read the book hurriedly. My immediate response was this is very much like THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING by Norman V. Peale - do you see similarities? When my son died at the age of 18, and I don't mention this often, but our church started an evening course on Peale's book and many people came to discuss it; it may perhaps have saved my life. After my decision to continue living (and that was a biggy one), I realized I must keep my mind busy constantly and so the housewife and business partner of my husband (I did the bookwork) went back to an office job. My husband hired someone else in my place and I enjoyed 12 years of satisfactory work, learned much about people.

I cannot at this time relate the book to myself, that will take time - but I also thought about how the small towns of America have had to change and adjust to shopping centers and Walmart stores and the small independent Mom and Pop entrepenaurs (sp?) have disappeared. It's been a difficult time for many; some small towns have changed with antique shops, gift shops and the like, others have become old and deserted.

Another thought - people in our parents' time and possibly in our own expected to work for the same company and retire from there with a pension. It's been an eye opener to discover that is no longer true and we are amazed how often young people change jobs. Two or three years and they are off to another one.

One more adaptation that society has made and then I'll quit. Companies are moving to the suburbs or to the cornfields where land is cheaper and then you see the apartments built up around them and the developers come with the strip malls and the roads are widened, and what used to be country is now a small town. We have seen that so often in our city - have the rest of you? Change, adaptation, flexibility.

I'll be back when I can relate some of this to my own life. It's very interesting and I'll pass the book around to friends.

What wonderful, insightful posts from everybody. I enjoyed reading them, and felt right along with you all.

Ella, bless your heart, once again I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your child, what a blow, I know it's one a person would never get over, yet as you say, Dr. Peale truly had a handle on positive thinking, he was truly gifted.

Majorie, I'm glad your Mother has her sisters, she sounds like she's doing well, I'm so glad.

I can certainly relate to the Yard Man dilemma, when I came back from my trip the Yard Man From Hell had taken the money, had done the vineyard but the lawn looked like the same wheatfield you describe. So I said well I guess it must have rained here, nope. So he's gone.

Barbara, you too raised some very interesting points, we do think friends are forever, and things change, people change. As they say the dinasours didn't, and look where they are, tho that's a little simplistic.

In the book, the cheese did not at first represent a goal. It was a pleasure and a necessity of life which was provided by an unknown hand that nobody questioned or even wondered about.

I think we go thru life like that too, taking what comes as a given and not actually thinking too much about how, almost in fear it might go away.

Then one day it was gone, and this Sniff and this Scurry got to work immediately.

I'm not sure I can make a big difference between the characters of Sniff and Scurry or why they were introduced? I no longer have the book but what's the difference in approach there?

ginny

Wow this simple book is bring us to our inner hearts and sharing our losses. I am humbled reading everyones posts.

Ella I had not idea you lived with such pain. And yes, I understand how in order to go on you must accept God in a different way than as a child. Thank goodness your paster was insightful enough to offer the series of study just as you needed it the most. Sounds like that was more healing than all the words of compassion.

Marjorie It is so wonderful to see your mothers still enjoying life but as mothers age, as yours is, we know that the years are saying a lot. Can you imagine the changes your mother and her sisters have experienced.

Gardeners or service people - you are right, in fact so many today seem to work as if their jobs were a given like getting up in the morning. Of course in areas where there are not many to do service jobs they are probably so in demand they are defining their work terms. Here it is because of so many high tech jobs available and the need is so great, along with consturction jobs, that anyone can be paid so much more that the average home owmer is able to pay. Even the collage kids can earn great money working summers in the High Tech companies.

Ginny you are so right the cheese didn't represent a goal, only pleasure and necessaity. I guess I take that to mean like anyone, we will do from childhood on, what we can to staisfy not only hunger but taste.

I think the fact that cheese is processed and would require a human hand is confusing because to me the cheese is the good or God given things in life that make life meaningful as well as the things of the world that we require or benefit. I think for most of us family is on top and I know for me, I love my home but, my house needs to be changed to reflect my life and what would make me comfortable today. My home is my security and security is important to me.

Since we are using cheese as the symbol I am getting the impression the book is talking about the things in life that give us the extra verve not just the basics. Cheese has so many differnet flavors and textures.

Although, somewhere in my mind I am remembering that peoples needs are in layers and until their basic needs for food, clothes and shelter are met they do not work on their needs for social contacts, creating friendships and than this is followed by amassing security and only than do people start to live their life to their fullest.

I know that has been the big change for me in the last 10 years. I went from living my fullest all the way back to securing my food and shelter which I am still working on and really haven't done a lot to create the size of social circle I one time enjoyed. And Soc. Sec. may be security but it sure isn't enough to live on for more than a week and at that only if you live very close to your chest ( only worked 14 years out of my home and so my soc. sec is minimal since homemakers do not get soc. sec. and 1/2 of his is not much.) Divorced at 58 and than draining my reserves to accomedate years of therapy, I am starting over but, with the memory of having been able to do more that I can now. I keep forgetting where I'm at and than wonder why life doesn't taste so good. The losses still pop up and take me a day or two to get past so that it is two steps forward and one back.

I really liked what Lucia said when she started her life again after her husband died.

My life has crept along on a broken wing
I'm not going to creep anymore
something about her being off the age of Elizabeth or something but it was not the age of what ever
and finally she says something about revering her loss or her past interests was boring.

That is what I am determined to do is not be so boring to myself and probably others, look into what kind of cheese I like, find it and start adding some to my daily diet.

The story doesn't go into much detail about the journey in the maze but that is where I think I am.

Seems to me Sniff, sniffed out the changes and where the new cheese could be found with reflection Smell the Cheese often so you know when it is getting old. and another that I think fit sniff Noticing small changes early helps you adapt to the bigger changes that are to come I think Scurry was just very adapt at moving with the cheese and enjoying it wearing his tennis shoes at all times.

This looks interesting. I wonder if the author likes cheese (ha). Personally I love it but never thought to relate it to my life. Unless maybe if I looked back I could relate it to swisscheese as it had a lot of holes and voids in it. At a very young age my father died leaving my mother with three small babies and no income whatsoever. I lost track of how many places I was shifted around to strangers and family before I was placed in an orphanage at the age of six. I wonder if this book is on the bookshelves in paperback....I wonder why I should read this book? Maybe it would make me sad and bring back too many unpleasant things that I've already healed from. I've gotten rather used to my own way of life now since I'm much older and really don't like change unless it's very positively in my very best interest.

EmmaBarb thanks for sharing your ouches - the pain folks carry around so humbles me as I've said, and yours is an old wound at a time when you were so young. EmmaBarb this is simply a cute story of four various ways to react to change. We can usually see ourselves in one of the four characters. It is a very slim book of only 90 some pages that you could probably sit down in the book store with a cup of coffee and finish reading it right there.

The concept of the story being that change is all around us and in today's world it often effects us, like it or not and so, the question the book prompts is, how do we deal with change. I believe some of us are getting a few aditional messages out of the book and I for one realize I have not kept up with some of the changes in my life therefore my life hasn't been tasting as good as it could.

Hope you join us - sounds like you know the pain of loss that seems to go hand in hand with change until we find our way to another source of emotional, spiritual, physical, mental, social nurishment.

EmmaBARB!!! Grab a chair as Barb says and sit on down, this one can be read at B&N in 1/2 hour, or at least the first part of it!

I have a different outlook on this book, I can see that right now.

First off, the cheese initially represented what? Safety, comfort, luxury, etc. But you need to eat and the cheese represented a real need. Supposedly there are only a few real needs that we have but eating is one of them?

So the cheese at first represented pretty much everything, even led to social encounters, such as they were?

I am loving the personal stories here, and thinking back in my own life, I KNOW I am a Hem. I expect things and when they don't happen I pitch the same fits he did and "expect" things to be made right.

It's a modus operandi which has worked for me so far, that's why I do it. I'm not sure it works for Hem.

I kinda feel sorry for Hem, I know we all say, well he should have gotten off his duff and gone out, but in real life, that takes a whole of a lot of effort, as we have seen in the previous posts. Of course if you don't, you die. And will Hem die? The book ends very ambiguously, doesn't it?

Barbara, that was very astute of you, I had forgotten that. Sniff actually noticed the cheese was diminishing, but apparently did not make any conclusions about it.

Sniff is a "Noticer." I have had several "Noticers" in my life, they always notice the mote in your eye while missing the beam in their own. They always know what's best for you with a sort of sad or haughty (Noticers come in all styles) demeanor, but the end result is the same, you are corrected.

I wonder if we can say that Sniff is the only cognizant one here? Scurry runs around, Haw (I hope I'm getting these right) only goes when his very existence is threatned, Sniff notices and acts and even tries to help and Hem pouts.

I wonder where the line draws between pouting and temper fits and crying and real emotion? For instance, if somebody moves your cheese (happened to me in 1980, I lost a job, not a person, thank God, but a job very dear to me thru a move; I did not realize I would have to give the job up, I wanted it ALL?) And so my reaction? A very fine one. At that time we used to take the kids to a condo in Florida on the ocean for a month, W wold come down two weeks and the kids and I would stay on two more. So I just sat on the beach and cried for that time, will never forget it.

I look back on it now in wonder, how could I have been so spoiled? But it was a lot of upheaval, moving, new job offer, worked self up, really loved that job, did not realize had to leave it, etc., etc., etc.

So it would seem in personality I am a Hem, and I expect from this I should have learned to..... to......to??????

ginny

EMMABARB! I agree, I think the book is much more than I thought. At first I thought it was a self-help book which I find very boring, but this little book (and you can read in a l/2 hour) gives you much to think about. Perhaps we should quote a few little thoughts for those who don't have the book. Here's one:

Haw knew sometimes some fear can be good. When you are afraid things are going to get worse if you don't do something, it can prompt you into action. But it is not good when you are so afraid that it keeps you from doing anything

Fear comes easily when you are getting older, do you agree?

Barbara - a divorce at 58? Tough and it could not have been easy for you. I admire your "pick myself up and get at it" attitude.

Marjorie - why don't you tell about how you and Sage became roommates and how that is working out? A great story, perhaps it might inspire others to do likewise? Who knows!

My mother-in-law, a difficult independent woman, finally at 74 decided to give up her big home and move in with friends. They were good friends most of their lives, but familiarity sometimes breeds contempt as they say, and she moved into 4 - yes, 4 friends' home (and my husband and I moved her each time, Oh!), until finally she realized it wasn't going to work and she got her own apartment.

I've met more Hems and Haws in my lifetime than Sniffs and Scurrys. At the moment I can't think of a one that sniffed out change immediately and scurried to correct the problem. Most consider changes very carefullly, sometimes too carefully, before acting.

One example, and I've seen this many times, older folk such as ourselves put off too long leaving their original home where they have collected a lifetime of junk. Fearful of change?

I rather like change.. If the couch weren't so heavy, I'd move it once a week.

My first big change came when I married a farmer.. having never lived on a farm I had to learn fast.... and I liked it.

1980 must have been the year of change... We were forced into retirement by Charlie's health... and I was drastically unprepared to work at anything but managing a hog confinement house... And no one hires a woman for that, and the bank would not extend operating capital to woman.... so I jumped at the chance to return to school and earned my BA and CPA by '83.

Since then I've found I'm a bit restless; when I've done anything too long then I am anxious to move on.
(No, Ginny, I'm not leaving books... This is my stabilizer.)

I like looking for new cheese. (I thought I found it in Paris, but Ginny made me come home.)

And the best cheese I found was access to the Internet through our little phone co-op and The SeniorNet. And I hope I'm not eating too fast... Would really like for it to sustain me for a few more years.

I'm always "sniffing" and now am looking for a new volunteer job to occupy my mornings. Hope I can find one before September.

Ella: I, too, have wondered why folks wait so long to make some changes...ie, moving into a more manageable living situation; getting to the attorney's office to make wills and POAs,etc. I guess it's the same point that Cheese was making:Many are reluctant to admit that reality has changed and things will never again be as they once were.

Pat: I sure agree about the Internet..and Paris,for that matter! The Internet allows me to keep up with a myriad of changes easily and conveniently.

š...jane›

Phooey, Pat liked Paris because it was the one place she could get away with hitting people with that cane and not going to jail. See the newest submissions in the England 2000 Photos Retrospective, she foiled a pickpocket!

ginny

But Ginny didn't tell you about the pickpocket that she saw putting his hand in the backpack of
the lady ahead of us in the Louvre. Evidently a student of Karate with a BlackBelt, she sent
him flying in the opposite direction. (I was careful from then on not start an argument.)

Oh my 007 in the Louvre and a crusty senior citizen using a cane to hide her connection with Interpole??? hehehe

On page 78 we have Carlos giving a recap of the infamous four...

I clearly remember a time before I had my sporting goods business, when I had a rough encounter with change.
"I wasn't Sniff- I didn't sniff ou the situation and see the change early. And I certainly wasn't Scurry- I didn't go into action immediately.
I was more like Hem, who wanted to stay in familiar territory. The truth is, I didn't want to deal with the change. I didn't even want to see it."
...
"Well let's just say I didn't want to go out looking for New Cheese. I thought I had a good reason why change shouldn't happen to me. So, I was pretty upset at the time."
...
"Hem reminds me of a friend of mine," said Frank. "His department was closing down, but he didn't want to see it. ...Now he's having a hard time adjusting to the change he didn't think should happen."
...
"I didn't think it should happen to me either, but my 'Cheese' has been moved more than once, especially in my personal life,..."
"Maybe that's the whole point," Nathan said. "Change happens to all of us."

Ginny you expereinced the Hem in you when you lost a job. It just didn't seem fair did it? I can feel how angry and hurt you were. I wonder if part of you river of tears was grief over loss. Scurry does not seem to need to grieve nor does he feel the fear that Ella reminds us of. But I sense that Haw is mustering up all his courage to go into the maze and keep looking for his new room of cheese. Jane reminds us how easily many folks overlook reality, not only by not sniffing it out but, like Carlos in the book says, "Well let's just say I didn't want to go out looking for New Cheese," and Franks friend, "...he didn't want to see it..."

Some things in my life I severed quickly, so quickly I never sniff well enough in order to better take care of myself. I was so anxious to satisfy my outrage and love of my daughter the decission was instant to divorce. I realize I don't usually do a pouting job because, those parts of my life that have been difficult I become like, is it Theseus that rolls the rock up hill?? Problem, while I'm struggling with the bolder, I see and experience very little else. Also, the stuggle does make me stronger and more capable but, I don't stop for fear the bolder will roll my down again and so I don't evaluate if raising the bolder is best for me or should I walk away.

For the first time I am wondering about walking away from my bolder but then part of me is saying no, you are acting like a foot stamping child, you feel it is unfair to have this bolder when I would prefer doing other things and I've worked so hard through so much pain, loss and change, enough should be enough. I'm also filled with dread that my strength is not suffiecient and this bolder will become like the huge rock ball thundering at me like in that Harrison Ford movie.

Specifically what I am speaking to, I used up all my financial reserves with 7 years of Therapy and being filled with so much grief and outrage as well as, the bad real estate market at the time I wasn't refilling the coffers.

Although I got the house in the settlement, the fact that it needed a roof was not equated and of course the fight over the little was horrendous. Rather than fight I just wanted it over and cavalier like, "What are we talking about, I can earn that," I settled for only 1/4 of his retirment. That along with soc. sec. isn't enough to live on, even in what is already a very reduced economic lifestyle.

As well, not only did I have the expense of a roof but while it was being installed, down came a torrential rain written up in the annals of Austin as one of the greatest. The roof in tar paper stage the house was flooded. Neither insurance company will pay (one, it was the contractors fault and the other, it was an act of God) Well now I am in debt installing the roof and in addition, three of the rooms repaired where the ceilings fell in while, I'm trying to put money together to pay these debts and get carpet changed as well as, the stained ceilings in the rest of the house painted as well as, tile that fell off because of the rains in the front bathroom. All the while putting on hold anything I really want to do with my life.

This location is so great especially as I age, since I can walk to anything I need and of course as Carlos in the book says I don't want to deal with more change and I want something familiar around me. None of my children are permanently settled to up and move near one of them. Also, I do not want to lose my independence that living near and enjoying more my grands would mean. And let's face it my grands are growning and changing. As of now this is a great market to earn money even if the work hours are long and exhausting.

I'm thinking out loud here - I really think what I want is to accept pushing this bolder but, this time figure out how I can push a bolder and feel less afraid of it rolling me over so that, I will take time to do some of the things that will bring me joy. Really do them without feeling so quilty or that my life right now isn't fair, that I should be able to devote more time to what I want to do rather then this work. Aha I need to accept that I have desided this work is what I want and not a punishment for not being a better Sniff. hmmm

Yep, that is it I see my whole life being a punishment for not being good Sniff. Wow, I never got that when I read the book myself!!! Thank's .. this is so great!

But but but Barbara, who ever DOES or could see everything?

Listen, I've met you twice, and if your life did not turn out so far just as you would have had it, I sure know one thing: you yourself certainly are not a punishment, you're a blessing, yourself!

ginny

Ginny thank you. My mind does seem to want to make me the bad guy and your right, I need to throw me head high and be proud of what I am doing rather than be cowering that this bolder is also going to mow me down. Really, thanks again.

Barbara, I am impressed with your ability to express your innermost feelings about these happenings with such apt allusions as to what it was like. You are really good at this.

What a plateful! Well, one small nibble at a time will clear it all away.

Mary thanks - hehehe I really was hoping for another type cheese to nibble away wasn't I. This is so great to pour all this out. My kids of course have their own pain to deal with and I have wanted to be their mother not their confidante and my few remaining friends are so busy being compassionate and outraged so, to talk freely and work this out here is such a blessing. I realize now that the reason everything seemed such the bolder is that I always saw my determination to go through the maze as a punishment for not sniffing well enough or to hide that I was making up for others that had hurt or as they say disappointed me.

This is such an eye opener for me you have no idea... I feel I have lost thousands of pounds. In fact I feel like I could roller skate down this maze and enjoy the trip.

Barbara:

I often talk to my patients about Slinky. Remember Slinky? The coil of metal that the kids played with - they had it walking downstairs and doing all sorts of things.

Lots of people look at life as if it is a ladder. We climb up - in marriage, in a job, in raising children or whatever - we think we are doing well and then suddenly - BANG - we slip down a couple of rungs. Hey! What did we do wrong? Well, we try again and seem to be going well and suddenly we slip down a couple of rungs again. Gee! We really must be doing something wrong.

We didn't do anything wrong. I don't think that life or development or change of any sort is like a ladder. I think it is like Slinky. It goes in cycles. It goes around up and down, up and down. When we are on the "up" cycle, we say "hey, life is great." Then it goes into the "down" cycle and we say "gee what mistake did we make?" I don't look at it as "up" and "down." I look at it as "up" and "about to go up." "Up" and "about to go up." If we are up, we know that there will be a down cycle and we did not cause it. That's just the story of life. We are not surprised when it happens. If we are down, we know that it will again go up and we did not necessary create that either and we take it calmly as just one of life's gifts. That's just the story of life.

Everything changes -- every year, every month, every day, every hour. We ourselves change. And, I think, usually for the better if we pause to think that the "good old days" were not always that "good." There is such a thing as a euphoric memory.

Robby

Just as long as you shed the guilt and blame for what has happened to you.

Guilt and blame are more vicious killers by far than are the other people in our lives and the things that happen to us.

Wow MaryPage and you said a mouth full there. For me it has been a knee jerk reaction since I was the scape goat for family's quilt and blame as a child. As the oldest I was going to make them all look good.

Robby your slinky story is so great. Yes another way to look at life.

Sounds like these are some of the reasons that keep us like Hem, in the room with diminishing piles of Cheese and what makes wandering the maze so scary.

I know for business purposes it would be economically beneficial to be a Scurry with a Sniff as a trusted employee but business in themselves do not have emotions. I wonder if that is what so many labor disputes have been about, wanting business to have heart and soul - but than with heart and soul does that mean Hem and Haw are the examples of a human approach to change? After all Sniff and Scurry are mice not human.

Hmmm maybe Sniff and Scurry are appropriate ways when I think of the character Lucia in the Mapp and Lucia books we have been reading. She is certainly an example of both a Sniff and a Scurry. And Mapp may sniff but I think she prefers to be Hem and not have to deal with change and certaily it took Georgie awhile to accept change. Oh I bet not all of you read the books that Ginny introduced us to. They are really great and deeper than first impression.

Hello everyone: All this discussion of change reminds me of a lecture I once heard (cannot remember the speaker)who claimed that the reason change is so difficult is that we live our lives forward and think backwards,because our thinking is based on our past experiences.

That's interesting, Ed! Hindsight does not help with foresight! Probably true in some cases - each problem we face is different, but experience with facing tough situations has to count for something.

In the book, as Barbara said, Sniff and Scurry are mice that just have instincts; whereas, Hem and Haw are complex little people. I'm not sure why the author puts mice and people together here, are you? I think Ginny questioned that once.

Barbara, I met you in Chicago and wished we had had more time to visit - you were one of the most interesting people I talked to there! I remember especially you talking about hiking through Europe alone and I thought Wow! This lady has a type of courage not found often in my acquaintances and now I know that to be true. You have courage and are pushing that boulder up that hill very well! You'll get it to the top, even though the rains came and it got very muddy for awhile and the boulder slipped back quite aways. Did you ever think perhaps of leasing a bedroom for a year to help with expenses?

Jane, my husband will be like Hem I'm afraid (described in the book as either too comfortable or too afraid to change)- he will not move from our present house which is much too big for us and will not let go of anything he has accumulated. The day will come when we must, he must, I must, and it will be difficult - an auction? I almost hope he isn't here when it happens, he loves his "things" - whether he uses them or not they are important to him, a part of his past!

No, we don't know in the book what happens to Hem, left for us to speculate.

Perhaps we should type in the "Handwriting On the Wall?" - pg. 74.

Pat - I, too, am looking for a different volunteer job for the fall. I've been reading to inner city school children, in a program called "Rolling Readers" for 3 years now, but I need a change. I like change also, but am not sure what to do yet. Let me know what you find. Certainly, will never leave Seniornet as long as my fingers keep working!

The insights here are fab - Ed that is super to have shared and yes, so true, all we do have is the past, even data that is often accumulated to help with maping future plans is based on the past.

For some of us it's like God and Elvis got together "I'm all Shook Up" and shook up the dice, laying out a new fortune for us to experience.

That was so great meeting in Chicago Ella. I still think we would be well to think of a gathering in a mountain hideaway rather than a big city. As much as is planned and as great the various events we still wish we had more visiting time with everyone.

I'll be anxious to hear how you and Pat go about finding your new volunteer jobs. Talk about regular sniffers here.

And Ginny, it just dawned on me - weren't you using your sniffing qualities when you were setting up the chat with the Discussion Leaders so that we could discuss how we could do our jobs better?

Robby, I bet you see lots of people resisting and than plunging into the maze because of change in their lives. Any more bits that you can share would be so neat of you.

Pat, I met you also in Chicago and at the time thought you are some indomitable lady. As I recall at the time you were driving in daily so that you could be available to your husband, who had just experienced a downturn.

Barbara: indomitable lady Thank you... That sounds better than stubborn.

I mean it Pat - you are something else again.

Interesting website on Who Moved My Cheese

Ella Gibbons - No, I don't fear things as much as I did when I was younger. I used to sleep with the lights on now I prefer total darkness. Some things I will always fear though and have nothing to do with getting older and that is....that no harm come to my children either physical or mental.

I have been cleaning out the closet in my spare room and finally getting rid of several boxes of files from when I volunteered and served on many boards as publicity, treasurer, nominating committee, president, discussion leader, legislative, etc etc. In going through these boxes I said gosh I didn't realize I did all of that. I still volunteer but instead of boxes of paper stuff I have it on the computer. Someday I will get rid of that too and just delete everything when I find someone willing to take my job. Any volunteers? (ha)

Barbara St.Aubrey - I've read Don't Sweat the Small Stuff and I forget the other one. The computer and Internet has brought a lot of change in my life. I like it better than tv these days for one. Thank you for your comment to me. My brother introduced me to The Book of Changes before he passed away. He was trying to teach me the Yin/Yang of life or I Ching.

Ginny, I'm back and sitting. I find the older I get the less needs I have. I'm still not sure why I should read this book.

EmmaBarb thank you! What a great find...I couldn't make the participants handbook go forward but the presenter Handbook has oodles and it also, clarifies what Spencer Johnson's symbols mean. As you can see it is up in the heading it is such a great find. Thanks again.

What a great feeling you must have to realize the impact you have had in your community. If you are like me, I learned so much by volunteering that I often wonder if I didn't gain more than I gave. Is that what you experienced as well?

EmmaBarb do you throw your I Ching as a guide for your daily life? When I was first introduced, it was so spooky because it peged me every time. That challanged my curiosity and as a result I've been studying I Ching which is a great part of Taoism and basic to Chinese philosophy. I've been studying Taoism and the I Ching now for over 10 years and find it so close to the contemplitive life I learned as a result of being eductated by the Carmelites. In fact, I find Taoism to be closer to my childhood spiritual development within the Catholic faith than the faith as it is practiced by those attending most parish churches. For me I find Carol K. Anthony's translation and interpretation to be the most meaningful.

Robby, I like that Slinky analogy, always going back up, like Chutes and Ladders, remember that one, but a better visual picture, thank you for that. I've got a slinky, love those things, go down a lot more gracefully than I do! hahahahaha

Barb, no, now, Sniff, while he did notice the cheese diminishing, as I recall, did nothing about it? He didn't call a Chat? He just kept going but he was not surprised.

I don't have much of a handle on the Scurry difference, yet.

No, Ella, that's YOUR very astute mind wondering why the mice and people are paired together and now I wonder, too?

Was the author saying that the more complex mind you have and the greater you have the ability to reason the more trouble you have making decisions?

ginny

OK Ginny now you do have my curiosity up. I really want to know the differences between these characters. For starters I clicked on the site that EmmaBark found for us and found this much:

Sniff: Who can smell change in the air.
Scurry: Who goes into action immediately.
Hem: Who does not want to change. "It's Not Fair!"
Haw: Who is startled by change, but then laughs at himself, changes and moves on to enjoy New Cheese.
Which character most represents the way you typically deal with change? And Why?
Cheese is a symbol for whatever is important to you
- the way you do your job, relationships with other people, health, peace of mind, etc.
The Maze is where you look for Cheese - your organization, community or family.
There are many kinds of people in the Maze
- from co-workers to customers -
and each needs to be treated differently
Sniffs can help you create a vision of New Cheese by sniffing out change and its opportunities.
Scurrys are energetic and like to get things done quickly.
We may have a little bit of each of these characters in us- which we can use to help us deal with change

Not much discription of Hem and Haw on the site. Now the book has Hem coming up with all this logic as to why NOT to go into the maze which Haw argues,

"We've run through many parts of the maze before, and we can do it again."

I love one of Hem's comments, I've heard this often enough in my life,

"You know, if we just work harder we'll find that nothing has really changed that much. The Cheese is probably nearby. Maybe they just hid it behind the wall."...so they started earlier, stayed longer, and worked harder. But after a while, all they had was a large hole in the wall.

Haw was beginning to realize the difference between activity and productivity.

I am beginning to wonder if Hem is there to illustrate our fears and is really a necessary part of the process so that we do not go off without thinking through some of the blocks we my need to face?

I am a Scurry through and through.

Always have been.

Decision making never a problem. Do it yesterday the motto. Change is good.

Was raised that way as an Army Brat.

Ha, you may well say! The Army fiercely resists change.

True! But the Army also moves around a lot, does not put down roots, and is most excellent training for learning how to procure and transport needed supplies.

MaryPage sounds to me like the Army may be a very traditional organization but when you join you and your family are expected to pick up and move without question in order to be in the best place to fit the master plan that the top ranks have determined. I can see that pick up and move quality must be an asset that filters into all life's changes.

I am beginning to see that according to what I value, is how I react to change. Sometimes it is like you - I just go for it - and other times, especially if there is no real pain causing me to change and yet, I can see the change would be a better pile of Cheese, than I am like Haw. That is also when I prefer making the change with other's, as a team effort or support system. And sometimes I go, as the saying goes, "Kicking and screeming into this good night." Those times I'm definatly a Hem! What I am not so good at is being a sniff. As much as I am aware of so much going on around me it never occures to me that things are not always going to be the same or that people are calculating change.

Well now, that's true, maybe the author intends for us to see ourselves in each character, but to ME the characters are not fully delineated apart to make a difference?

I am definitely a Hem and a whining one at that, a Princess if you will, never looking (I blush as I write this but it's the truth), for where it comes from, always expecting the best? Always expecting. And worrying. I read somewhere that people who worry are actually doing it because it gives the illusion of doing something about a situation over which they have no control, it IS something, but it's negative.

You would think I would have learned after all this time but hope springs eternal.

But I also notice things, so that makes me a Scurry or Sniff. I would definitely notice if the cheese was diminishing, definitely. I would probably, being totally honest here, take it as a personal insult? hahahaha Which one of it was the one who liked the taste so much? Can't remember,

OH Andrea has returned the book, I do have a copy if somebody would like to take 1/2 hour to read it one day!!

Barbara, I tell you what, that story of yours about the roof, was that recently? That would be a hard pill to swallow, kind of plastic cheese in your Cheese Station?

ginny

Ginny, it happened last fall, probably as we were drinking coffee in that little roadside cafe. I was so delighted that much of the banging would be complete by the time I got back - huh - I walked into a swamp with the only two rooms spared, my bedroom and another bedroom that I have been using as an office but, even in that room the carpet was wet. There are stains on the ceilings in those two rooms but at least there were ceilings. Thank goodness I am in the habit of pulling the electric plugs to the computer, TV and VCR when I am out-of-town.

It all feels so overwhelming and that is why I'm questioning is there a message here that I'm overlooking. I keep going over the options as I understand them and it still makes more sense to get this house back into tip top shape than to sell at a loss and invest the proceeds. If I do that I still must pay for a place to live. Also, where I live has been appriciating at a minimum of 15% a year for the past 5 years. Sold 'as is' the house is worth more than double it's value at the time of the divorce. But than to move, I would get less house, still needing repairs unless, I would be willing to live in one of the surrounding communities without the 'walking to the store' convience.

And so my other dreams are on hold till I secure in good repair my home. Now my maze as I see it is, to learn how to do and enjoy taking time and energy for other activities unrealated to work. To taste and include in my diet more than one kind of cheese.

Ginny your Hem like ways reminds me of the nursery rhyme something about the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead. When she was good she was very very good but when she was bad she was horrid.

No, No... Ginny is never, never horrid... A little whiny at times ... but such joy when she gets to sit in the window and look at the Grand Canal in Venice... She definitely had found her cheese

Hi to all you fine people that I love. I have appreciated every post. Cheese, I have not got the book so who do you think I am? I sure am enjoying my life for a change, The roof is done and I am cleaning up the mess onward to the evetroughs etc. and taking time to travel with Senior Net.

Pat W. I am the one with the curl in the middle of her for head and when I was good I was very, very good BUT WHEN I was bad I was horrid. Story of my life and maybe Yours with you cane, a little nasty to produce a lot of Good. Smile Love, Ginger

Now off to ILL. for the Luncheon this weekend, see you there.

Will I see you and Charlie at the AZ. gathering also?

I guess we all have curls in the middle of our forehead at one time or another don't we? Thank goodness I have only seen you Ginny, Pat and Ginger when you were being very very good.

So much has happened since last November and yet in some ways it seems like only a few weeks ago. Ginger, I can still see you in your red hat at the Blackstone where I shoved you aside thinking "Who is this woman blocking me from the only person I know in this entire place!" Little did I know what a fun loving and great asset you are and how much you would have helped me in that nightmare had I been less frantic.

I need to let you know how fabulous the composition is in your photo of the gentleman playing the violin that you took in Europe. The light paths pointing inward like direction lines to the black stanchons, that like soldiers in a line, lead your eye to the violinest who is lengthened and made more important by the romantic light pole behind him. The pole than leads the eye upward and the roof line lead to the black windows on the far building brings your eye outward and than down to pick up the group of folks and car that lead you back to the violinest and pole and than how the large sign on the right is picked up in shape by the lighter rectangle windows above and the lines of the building also all lead your eye back to the violinist. Even the lady with camara around her neck in the foreground is walking toward the center paralleling the slashes of lights that direct your eye to the cobble stones that also lead your eye to both the violinest and the large sign. Just so pleasing is that shot.

Back to Cheese - do you have some Cheese that you want to nibble that you haven't gone after yet?

Barbara St. Thank you for seeing all of what you have seen in the pictures that I have taken to me people are special as are you remembering just how we met in Chicago. I was bold over for sure as you wanted your Cheese. (Smile) Ginger

Aha was this what you were getting us to see Ella? On page 17 it says,

In The Story you will see that the two mice do better when they are faced with change because they keep things simple, while the two little-people's complex brains and human emotions complicate things. It is not that mice are smarter. We all know people are more intellegent than mice.
However, as you watch what the four characters do, and realize both the mice and the littlepeople represent parts of ourselves--the simple and the complex-- you can see it would be to our advantage to do the simple things that work when things change.

Do y'all think Spencer Johnson M.D. is saying, do not get emotions and thinking in gear, just do it?

Of course he could be just saying, in his way, what I have pinned up on my door to get me going.

Act
Don't allow thoughts such as; "Not now, later," or "It must be right" to distract my mind.
Concentrate on what needs to be done
Do step one. Did you do step one? Actually do it?
Do not focus on self-evaluation
Can I, Can't I? Am I worth while?
Action gets results! Do it - follow instructions!
Each action is not going to make me great or justify my existence. This is not a big deal!
Do step 1 then step 2 and then step 3. Steps 1,2,3 get me closer to the results I desire

I keep talking to so many friends who find their cheese moved. I'm trying to get one now to come in and talk about what happened to her, but more to the point, what she did about it.

I'm wondering this morning how we can possibly choose from all the advice we are given, how we can winnow it down to something we can actually USE.

If you're like me, you read these books and it seems pretty fine but the next time your cheese gets moved you fall back on the same old traits which worked for you in the past, AND if you look hard at yourself and your own reactions, you may find you've been doing it since you were a child and it might even be a family trait ot pattern, a learned experience or response. We need Robby in here to talk about this.

For instance, take the matter of family feuds? Aunt Sally hasn't spoken to Aunt Hortense in 20 years. Have you ever had a family feud in your family?

Usually funerals bring out the underlying tensions in a family, or the reading of a will can do it, or the dividing of an estate. It's unreal.

At such times, which book, whose advice, are we going to remember?

How can we sort though all the pop psychology and get something that really works for US? Otherwise we are doomed to continue our lifelong pattern of dealing with moved cheese, what is the answer?

ginny

Ginny: You mean you want me to come and and talk about cheese?

Robby

So far to me the book is great about helping us understand that, not only does the cheese move but, we need to go after it and continue to be alert to changes. BUT, what I do not find very enlightening is the process of traveling the maze finding new cheese. Only suggestion I get from the book is, to get going and be aware that our fear is our barrier.

And Ginny, when you speak of falling back into patterns I'm wondering if that is what prompts the pattern. Not knowing how to proceed down the maze, it feels safer to stay in the room without cheese because at least there you know the room and your out of the way not bumbling around lost.

I'm remembering as a child, the family, my aunts and cousins, we all went to an amusment park that had this big slide. Everyone was given a burlap bags to sit on and slide down. Well, I never had slid down anything before in my life and sitting on top of the slide I was so scared. Several of my cousins, also scared, walked back down and I just wouldn't do that. So I sat for the longest time and could only imagine the worst as to how this was going to feel and yet, determined I would not walk back down. Up-shot being my older cousin came along and gave me a push - wild eyed I went down and was so relieved when I hit the bottom. After that I was no longer scared and went up again with the few cousins that were having fun.

I look at that and realize, new experiences do seem freightening. You can watch others and see how they are handling it but, that still does not prepare you for carrying out the tasks involved.

I think there is a process-- first desiding your going to do something, second feeling some anxiety about it, Third either noting that you have the skills to do it since you did something like it at another time or watch others do it and copy them or -- I have just learned a new one that I like and that is, to break everything down into the smallest section of the job as possible.

I like that since new things often feel so overwhelming. In my slide story, if I had watched others go down, not as a whole slide but watched the slide in sections. Where in their sliding did they pick up speed, what would it be like to just go this far and then I could see myself section by section doing the slide, till I had the slide experienced in my head. Then I think I could have pushed myself off.

Ginny like you I often wonder how so many books can be sold all about a similar topic. I've desided that it is easy to write about but hard to do and since many of us would like the skill we are suckers for just one more guru's ideas to make this a simple learning experience. I have heard varrying ideas on seminars and books. One person said they go to and buy everything becuase in they only get one idea that works it pays for the book or seminar. I've heard another say, get one book, believe in it and work it till you can do it that there is no easy answer and once you get the foundermentals down you can write your own book.

I know I have made many changes in my life but seldom with the same issue or habit within the same enviornment I've been in. Often I find not only has the cheese moved but something has moved me into another spot where I can see new cheese and then the challange is how do I get over there and get some. But actually going down a maze looking for cheese I've only done with huge life altering experiences like finding another broker to associate with or divorce or even thinking back the challange of finding a balance if not happiness as my children wnet through various growth changes in their lives.

I wonder how that would work trying to get people back together? My only concern there is as the old saying goes "you can bring a horse to water but ... " So I am wondering, as much as we would like to see our families be a loving unite I think we can really only set up possibilites. What do you think?

Robby how do you go after something new that you want in your life? It seems to me you have shared that you did go after your education and changed careers several time and the last after most people believe they have what is to be.

Barbara:

Concerning most people "believing they have what is to be," who determines what "is to be?" I don't know what that means. That is "tomorrow." I have today certain desires, certain wishes, certain intentions -- and I act upon them today. Tomorrow morning I wak up finding I am a bit further on some sort of road so -- tomorrow now being "today" -- I again act on certain desire, etc. etc.

What "is to be" implies to me a certain goal at which point "life" stops. The journey is the joy.

Robby

Aha that I bet is your secret to success Robby - you to do not even know what 'to be' is and there are so many more that yes, deside that were they are at age 60 or 65 is it! Yes, just as you say they stop, they vegetate, they exist, because they determined that is what is and the is, is the 'be end of it all.'

Ok Robby that still leaves me asking what do you do when you are faced with going for new cheese which means traveling in new directions or trying to determine if you need new skills or practicing things that are hard and therefore not fun yet?

Barbara: I'm still not quite understanding the question but let me give it a try. As a Clinical Psychologist who specializes in substance abuse, I determined a couple of years ago that in order to handle my profession properly, it was necessary that I better understand the latest research on the workings of the brain and what happens to the brain of an addict. So over a three year period I attended 17 seminars on Psychopharmacology and now hold a Diplomate in this field. To my knowledge, I am the only Clinical Psychologist in Virginia who has accomplished this because the majority of psychologists do not believe they need to know that much about medications and brain functioning.

Now to answer your question, I am realizing more and more that most addicts have a genetic pre-disposition to this disorder. I have a basic knowledge of genetics but it becomes apparent that I need to know much more about this field so I am about to take some more advanced courses in genetics, especially with the direction in which genetics is going these days.

Did I say back there "oh, I think that I should study more about genetics?" No, I was "faced with it" as you say so I reacted appropriately.

This is a never-ending thing until the last day of life. Life is always handing us things and we cope to the best of our ability as we go along.

Robby

Great Robby - I think I was trying to find a way to deal with those changes that happen that seem to come out of left field and are often huge thunderbolts requiring change.

Also the one I have touble with is when I know a change in some habit would be to my advantage and I would like to adapt it but ooohhhhh how to find the way to make that happen or the motivation to do what it takes to nibble the better cheese. Like you inquary and learning is a wlecome response to observable problems it's those actions that are needed to make things happen that are often not only new but we are not sure if they are the ones that will work. Yep fear, fear of wasting time not getting any closer to the cheese and fear of doing things wrong and fear that I will have to do something I do not like doing.

I would like for this Cheese to keep Moving with a lot of post. This is my Cheese for today.

There's something about mice with cheese. I prefer my cheese with crackers (ha).

Hehehe I like that EmmaBarb, cheese with crackers - YES! And of course a glass of wine once in a while although, I love Campbell tomatoe soup with crakers and cheese.

Ginger I will except your sentiment as our perfect prayer for this site. I love it!

I find myself thinking about this book quite a lot, it's funny, people read it and say, Oh it's just more pop psychology and oh is that all there is to it, but then when something happens all the people I know who have read it, immediately exclaim. "My cheese got moved!" hahahaha

Now we can see that Robby is a "take hold of life" kinda guy like the hymn says. He's signed up for more classes, when he could have sat back and said, oh please. He keeps moving forward, his feet are moving forward and it's obvious he enjoys the challenge. That's what we should aspire to be.

Likewise look at Barbara, here she is, a Real Estate Agent, I could not under any circumstances, entertain that for half a second, I'm way too shy, I would die. Barbara, how did you decide to be a Real Estate Agent, were you one before the divorce?

I got up thinking about the Cheese and LIFE and the issues in the book. I keep thinking how lucky I am, I've got Cheese Station C and all I have to do is flit over there and have a nice big meal, pretty much, when you think about it, at somebody else's expense. I don't work for the money any more?

But I find myself putting up my OWN mazes? The mazes that are there are not enough, I guess, I erect up my own, and make my own path that more twisted and difficult. Usually with my mouth.

My husband, as I think on it, says, why do you make things so HARD for yourself? I've never actually thought about this till we started this discussion. Jeepers.

Somebody in the Library yesterday made the point that life is a prison, your body is a prison, etc. I don't ascribe to that, unless you are totally physically handicapped. I do know people who are imprisoned physically, yet without that "prison," they would not exist to think at all.

I see life as an gift, and an endless potential, the sky's the limit if, in my case, I could STOP erecting my own mazes bewteen me and the Cheese.

ginny

Oh Ginny don't you think to be alive we are all wanting new experiences and if they don't fall into our laps we create them?

I know everyone has their idea of a Real Estate Broker and usually it is next to a used car salesman. Well after my children were grown I played around in the field of needlework, studying here and in Europe and teaching locally and at a few national seminars. I worked in a shop for awhile to see if I liked it with the idea I might open my own. Well I soon learned it is oodles of work with no time to do what you love, needlework and all to earn for yourself if you are lucky about 15K a year. Too much invested in time, money and energy for that.

Than I realized how much I loved my home and thought everyone who wants a home ought to be able to have one. Well I got my license in 1980 without even realizing that of course people want help selling their homes! I had no idea what I was in for as to time and understanding or rather reading people etc. etc. The math was not a problem in that math was always one of my best subjects. I found the ins and outs of loans intrigueing and was adapt at realizing that for most folks their home is their largest investment and where in town would they have the best chance of obtaining the most appreciation.

I traveled subdivion by subdivision memorizing steet names and learning the names of the principles of the local schools, where the firehouse, doctors, churches and shopping was, what social and community activities the folks from that area frequented, the cost of membership to the local golf course or country club, how long it took to drive to either the lake or downtown, what electric company serviced that area, what were the tax ratios and the biggie what kind of appreciation did the area experience. I really got to know Austin and all the backroads so I can avoid traffic at any time of day.

Than meeting folks and getting to know them, what they liked and didn't like and than almost like an advanture or hunting we would try to find what pictures they had in their head. I love it - at times yes I meet impossible people that are demanding or they are trying to put something over on buyer or seller and I become disgusted and depressed that all folks are interested in is greed but than the next person or couple are wide eyed ready for the advanture.

I have these long lists of things for sellers to do when they are getting their house on the market with the adjunct 'It must look like a builder's model home for top dollar and I only work with those wanting top dollar.' So they work and I have loaned artwork and scatter rugs and bought plants, towels and candles to gussy up, often a bachlors home or a vacant house. Having an Open House is almost like throwing a party with drinks and cookies and flyers and invites and phone calls inviting. It is fun, and yes, long often very late hours but, I can make a decent living. No not the millions that many folks think we make since our personal split is about 1.5% of the sales price and yes, the expenses are there from license renewals and classes and computers and MLS dues and pager and cell phone, post cards, gifts, monthly mailouts, higher car insurance and car gas, and...and...and...

So thank goodness, yes, I had 10 years under my belts before divorce. Without that I may have been like many woman, tied to a unattainable situation because of economics. Because, let's face it, there are not too many jobs that pay a living wage available to a woman age 57 which was my age when I divorced. There was still a huge adjustment because it ment I was living on about 1/4th of what I had been used to. So if you mentally cut your income to 1/4th of what it is, you get the picture. And of course I lost about 9/10th of my so called friends, some because I could no longer keep up financially. But for me I could see no other choice than to divorce and so a new adventure that sometimes is like the 'Perfect Storm' only I am still riding it out.

Which by the way I thought todays motivater, available on the site cliquable above, was so great! I am printing it out in case you are viewing this after todays good word has changed:

Use your Weaknesses

Did you realize that your weaknesses can contain an overwhelming abundance of hidden positive value? Those who only make use of their strengths are missing a big part of the picture. Use your strengths, to be sure, and also make use of your weaknesses.

Your weaknesses represent the areas in which you can make the greatest, most dramatic improvements. Sure, you can improve on your strengths but any improvement will be incremental. However, when you set out to overcome your weaknesses the change can be stunning.

For example, instead of saying to yourself "I'm no good at meeting people" consider what an enormous difference you could make by taking it upon yourself to become better at meeting people. By turning around a particular weakness you can have a dramatic impact.

Everyone is blessed with numerous weaknesses. Instead of denying them or trying not to think about them, select a few and make the effort to overcome them. It can be a truly life changing experience.

Barbara St. Aubrey: So beautifully put and so true I thank You.

Ginger

I don't think anybody would have too much trouble seeing why Barbara was named, was it, Real Estate Agent of the Year last year?

It's obvious she put her heart and soul into it.

That makes me think of the dedication here in the Books and the way that several people here go about things.

Perhaps it's habit, but we enjoy a tremendous high from the efforts of many of our Books Discussion Leaders, who bring to their endeavors here the same energy they attack life with. That's one reason the Books folders are the most popular folders on SeniorNet and will probably remain so.

I do like the idea of examining your weaknesses and working on them. It's like they used to say about somebody you would date, pay attention to his faults because his strengths will take care of themselves. hahahahaaa

I also love the heading with its animated mice.

I have always hated mazes. I cannot DO them, a real one, and they are frightening. Have you all ever walked thru one? That one at Hampton Court is scary.

The one at Leeds Castle is fun, if for no other reason that it's not fully formed and thus not so claustrophobic and those who finish the course will stand up and advise you, it's a TEAM effort then, and totally fun. I had a young Chinese man telling me how to go or I would never have finished the course.

Interesting in this book that there IS no Teamwork or dependence on others, is there? Every man or mouse for himself. Haw tries to get Hem to come along at the end, but he won't. Haw is concerned for Hem. Is there any indication that Sniff or Scurry is concerned about the other?

Is this book saying that it's every man for himself in PROBLEM solving? THEN you help others?

ginny

That's an interesting insight, Ginny. Everyone for himself here, yes. I left the book at my daughter's house for her to read, if she wants too. She's in the process of applying for tenure at her university and this will be the 3rd year review. She thinks she'll make this one but possibly not the 6th one, and, of course, if she doesn't she would leave that job. She's being very realistic about it - there is life after the University and possibly a better one, with less pressure and more pleasure; definitely less politics which she finds distasteful.

Barbara - that was very good about learning from one's weaknesses. I have so many, don't know where to start. I had a friend at my last job at OSU who was a marvelous political gal and I'm sure went far in her chosen field - wish I knew where she was now. She related that at every interview you are always asked what your strengths and weaknesses are and there are "good weaknesses." The best is a weakness that is also a strength. Her stated weakness was the fact that in meeting her goals she was so intensely focused that she didn't notice her friends, co-workers and family were being neglected and often lost friendships because of this neglect. Of course, one can see how an employer might value this!

I'll pause today and think over a few of my weaknesses and consider how I might improve.

aha Ginny YES! Not only did you notice the characters seem to work alone and you questioned that BUT, you were aware how you were helped going through the mazes in Britian! You are so right and I did not pick up on that fact. No group dynamics at work here is there. Maybe that was why I loved the book Renato's Luck He is conserned for his friends and family, he feels responsible to get their message to the Pope and in the end learns more from his friends and family's needs or weaknesses than all his efforts to get this great powerful man, The Pope, to bring him luck to help solve their problems.

Ella what a unique thought and so true, that what we see as a weakness someone else could benefit from that behavior. hmmmmm For me though that little blurb made me aware I could really be heartened that I haven't lost it if, I would put some effort into changing a weakness because that would give me the most bang for my bucks as they say.

I've never been consistent with an exercise program. I understand by lifting weights you do more to build back bone density than taking all the calcium tablets in the store. I was beating myself up about how bad I've been over the years keeping a program going although, I love to swim and take hikes in the woods. OF course I must drive for over an hour or more to find any woods and swimming is available down the hill but only in summer. Well realizing what a big successful feeling it will be to do something about my past inability to stay with a program is more exciting to ponder than the brow bashing I was giving myself.

I have bookmarked that motivational site and usually click on every day. He has some wonderful things to say in just a few short sentences. Some days its stuff I've heard before or it doesn't pertain but many days it is just great.