"That's somewhat different from civil rights."

As I see it, that's pretty much the divide in the United States today and what will be considered during the election. There also seems to be such a divide between the U.S. and Europe.

This forum is, of course, not a political one and I am wondering if this current problem as outlined by Clarke can be addressed by Activism or if we, the people, are helpless.

My local "guru" worked on it for two hours cleaning it up. Apparently the virus "Downloader Trojan" had done a job. My Norton removed that virus but it was too late. Trojan had already spread other stuff which caused me to receive NUMEROUS popup ads that obliterated the screen, often froze the screen, sent me to the wrong location, knocked out various icons on my desktop, and had a wonderful time. I got a quick email off to Eloise only moments before I got a message that my memory was running out and then everything stopped. I couldn't even work off line. My guru installed "Ad-Aware" which may help with the popup ads.

It is obvious that my enfored absence made no difference whatsoever to the activity within this discussion group -- and that's the way it is supposed to be. My being Discussion Leader ultimately means I am just one of the participants.

I am also extremely pleased to see that the topic of religion can be discussed here without anyone proselytizing for or against any specific religion. In this forum we address issues -- not personalities.

robert b. iadeluca - 11:31am Jan 22, 2004 PST (#1 of 996)

My father had five brothers. When I was in my teens, just out of high school, I used to visit my grandparents and on occasional Sundays all seven of us men, which of course included myself, would find ourselves sitting around the dining room table and giving opinions.

Oh, did we have opinions! I was always precocious but my precociosity (I'm entitled to make up a word) was always accepted by my family. We gave opinions about the stock market, the coolies in China, the wisdom of New York's mayor (LaGuardia at that time), the condition of the school system, the possibility of war (it came to Europe two years later), the media (nine newspapers in NYC at that time but no TV), hunger in the world, how the pyramids were built (obviously we were all amateur engineers), the benefits of Italian food (did you think Iadeluca was an Irish name?), the future of the best baseball team in the nation (Brooklyn Dodgers of course), how to get along with women (I listened at that point), how to get a good job, why the Twentieth Century Limited train is able to get to Chicago so fast, animal rights, and on and on.

Our voices rose. We interrupted each other. We pounded the table. We looked at our "opponent" with disdain. Sarcasm might have entered the discourse -- debate? -- argument? What matter the title of the event. We had views and we gave them with no holds barred. We did tend to move along in some sort of organized fashion from one topic to another -- an organized chaos, if you will.

But you know what? No profanity ever. It was not part of our vocabulary. No commenting by one brother upon the character of the other. We even occasionally agreed. And we laughed. Oh, how we laughed. Sometimes laughing at the antics of someone else who was going to great lengths to prove a point. Sometimes laughing at ourselves. For an hour or two we took on the world.

Then out came the coffee and the pastries. Time for a breathing spell. Time to look inwardly and feel good about ourselves. We had opinions. We felt them strongly. And we had expressed them. Maybe we had changed someone else's mind and maybe we hadn't.

I repeat:- we took on the world. But make no mistake. It was not an exercise in public speaking. We were angry! We were angry at all the idiocy in this imperfect world. We didn't know if we could at that moment do anything about it but, by God, we were going to make our voices heard, even if only in the confines of one room. We were one step away from being activists.

A couple of us did take that step. One uncle used to stand on a corner in Times Square preaching the Marxist manifesto and selling the Daily Worker. Another uncle, an elevator operator, would trap an unsuspecting passenger between floors and get him to change his way of thinking. Many years later I, a World War II veteran, marched from Fordham University to the New York University uptown campus, being splattered with eggs on the way, as I helped protest the Vietnam War.

This is the spirit of this new discussion group. If ever you were extremely upset about something and wanted to speak up about it, this is the time and the place. Political views accepted? Of course. But if the only thing that bothers you in this life is the presidency, the congress, or the supreme court, or government in general, then you are thinking too narrowly and you are in the wrong forum. THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL DISCUSSION GROUP. We will talk here about "people" and their relationships with other people. No topic here is too large and none is too miniscule.

This is the spirit in which Studs Terkel wrote his book, "Hope Dies Last." His book is about Activism. He quotes Thomas Paine's vision of America written in 1791:-"Freedom has been hunted round the globe. Reason was considered as rebellion. The slavery of fear had made men afraid to think." And Studs adds:-"Here is where the activists enter the picture, as they always have. Paine assumed a society not simply of citizens, but of thinking citizens."

Through the medium of his book Studs will be our guide as we move along. We will follow his 325-page book as he moves us from his quote of Jessie de la Cruz at the start:-"I feel there's gonna be a change, but we're the ones gonna do it, not the government" to the quote at the end of the book by Kathy Kelly:-"We're going to change our lifestyles."

Thinking is the byword. Let us give our opinions. Shouting is permitted. Table pounding is encouraged. And perhaps not interrupting the other person too much. Tell it like it is or how you think it should be!!

robert b. iadeluca - 12:04pm Jan 22, 2004 PST (#2 of 996)

Well, here I am. A discussion Leader for a new forum built around organized chaos. I know that no one can herd cats. And all you cats are out there meowing to come in and say your piece.

I keep thinking of the hot discussions around our dining room table. Chaos? Yes. But even without a written agenda, there was also a form of organization. It was built around COURTESY AND CONSIDERATION. If one uncle brought up a topic (let's say "hunger), and a couple of other uncles responded, a third uncle didn't interject with "What about that last Dodger game?" He waited until it seemed that the current topic was almost exhausted and then came in with that new thought.

You folks get the idea. Please keep in mind that you are in the Books & Literature section of SN and that we are reviewing Studs' book. Along with that we are giving our own personal concerns which were brought to mind by reading this book. That is the purpose of this forum. We will start at the book's beginning (Introduction) and will then go chapter by chapter. I have read the book throughly and you will be amazed how following the various chapters will give you every opportunity to get your personal concerns off your chest. Every chapter is built around "passion for justice." This is why you are here -- right?

Let us take a general approach as Studs does in his Introduction. What is he telling us?

Personally, I am against ALL death penalities, no matter the crime. I would not go on a jury where such a verdict was possible. I understand the need for killing in self-defense but am against murder in any form, even if committed by a government.

How do you think this could be combatted?

I just got a new patient -- a 13-year old boy who was expelled from school for swearing at his teacher and using marijuana. I spoke to him alone without his mother present. That is my usual procedure. It turns out that this boy is heartbroken because his parents divorced two years ago. In front of his mother he indicated an "I don't care" attitude. With me he started to cry -- and there were plenty of tears in my eyes as well.

He uses MJ to relax from his stress. Can you believe that? A 13-year old boy who needs to relax!! I found myself talking about myself. I told him of my shop-lifting experiences when I was about his age. I told him about the death of my mother when I was nine years old. He wants to stop using MJ. He wants to go back to school.

His mother had coerced him to come to me for a one time visit. Now he wants to continue seeing me. And you know what? I want to see him.

Idealism doesn't have to die when one is no longer a "newby."

"It's easy to talk yourself into despair. Hope is physical and visceral. You have to do yourself into it."

One of the afflictions of our day, terrorism, seems to exist around the world. Click HERE for an article on that very topic. Are we helpless?

This is a book on Activism. At the moment, I see no means that an individual can be an Activist against this form of evil except to keep one's eyes open.

Those of us who have been participating in The Story of Civilization for the past two years four months have not found that to be so. There was an occasional rebellion but people have pretty much accepted their lot in life.

Haven't we all at times said or done something for which we later felt ashamed?