Future Indefinite ~ Noel Coward ~ 6/00 ~ Autobiography
sysop
November 25, 1999 - 09:30 am
 |
Future Indefinite
by Noel Coward |
Coward, Sir Noel (Pierce) (1899--1973)
Actor, playwright, and composer, born in London. An actor from the age of 12, his first play, written with Esme Wynne, was produced in 1917. Among his many successes were The Vortex (1924), Hay Fever (1925), Private Lives (1930), and Blithe Spirit (1941), all showing his strong satirical humour, and his gift for witty dialogue.
The Noel Coward Story on PBS's Great Performances
Great Britain celebrates Noel Coward
Noel Coward Centenary
Coward's Music
Please read the book and join us in the discussion. Everyone is Welcome.
Ella Gibbons was your Discussion Leader.
"My dear-the people we should have been seen dead with" - Rebecca West
Ella Gibbons
November 29, 1999 - 08:18 am
HERE WE ARE ALL SET UP, THANKS TO LARRY!
All those who are interested in reading Noel Coward's autobiography (actually the second one he wrote) please sign in and tell us if you have found the book, either in your Library or have bought it at one of the many used books sites on the Web.
I have finished this book and have reserved two more about NC from my library - one written by his "special friend" mentioned on the above site. Should be interesting!
The song, written by NC, placed in the heading is one I remember hearing years ago; was it in the WWII era - am I the only one that has ever heard it? Perhaps HENDIE remembers it - yoo,hoo, HENDIE. She did promise to stay with us during this discussion as she was "on the scene" for most of the years this book covers - the war years.
Ella Gibbons
November 29, 1999 - 01:55 pm
If you cannot find this book, you can find another one about Noel Coward as there were about 6 choices at my Library. Today I picked up two - My Life with Noel Coward by Graham Payne - who was the star of many of Coward's shows and shared the Master's professional and private life for thirty years. Also Noel Coward - by Philip Hoare which the London Sunday Independent called "....the definite biography....This is the Compleat Coward for them as wants it." The latter is a huge book, doubt I ever get through it, but it may add something to our discussion.
NC entertained the troops all over the globe during WW2 and if any one of you is a historian I have many questions to ask, particularly as to what was going on in India at the time and what so many troops, both British and American, were doing there - and fighting Japanese troops? Perhaps we may have to pull some of those veterans from the GOOD WAR discussion in here.
Ginny
November 30, 1999 - 11:48 am
This looks like great fun. I got mine from Bibliofind and here is a partial listing of the titles for people who like to buy the book rather than borrow it at their libraries. Here's the url:
Bibliofind By the way, I've always found it better to deal with the dealer himself thru email or phone, rather than go thru Bibliofind, you can have immediate confirmation.
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COWARD, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; London: Heinemann, 1954. 1st Edn. D8, viii,336pp., fp., illus., index. Fine copy in good (prot.) d/w, chipped top spine & corners The author's second autobiography pa theatre eng thea biog film lit mod1 illus Offered for sale by Cambria Books at AUD25.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Garden City: Doubleday & Co., 1954. Cloth, Very Good/Good in Mylar, 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall Some edge wear and chips on the spine, Literature (UR#:2435) Offered for sale by Russian Hill Bookstore at US$20.00
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Coward, Noel.: FUTURE INDEFINITE. ; FUTURE INDEFINITE. London: William Heinemann Ltd., (1954). 8vo, blue cloth (lightly bumped; small tear to bottom edge of front cover; rubbing & crease to head of spine) titled in gilt, in dw (rubbed & chipped; rear panel darkened & soiled; dw spine slightly faded with piece out of head). viii & 336 pp. (stain to front endpaper). B&W portrait frontispiece & profuse B&W illustrations. Good. ///First edition.///Noel Coward's second volume of autobiography covering the World War II years and his wartime travels to America and to army bases around the world. LITERATURE; THEATER; AUTOBIOGRAPHY; PLAYWRIGHT; SONGWRITER; BRITISH; WORLD WAR II; FIRST EDITION. Offered for sale by Blue Mountain Books & Manuscripts, Ltd. at US$20.00
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Coward, Noel: Future indefinite ; Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1954. HB, G/Poor, Black cover & text fairly tight & clean, dj edgeworn on front, lg chunk missing top back, in Brodart, address sticker on flylf, Biography Noel Coward Memoirs (UR#:OLDBOOKS000157I) Offered for sale by The Last Word at US$5.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; London: Heinemann, 1954. First, Fair, Fine/Fair DW, Signature of Harriet Van Horne, radio persona;lity on FEp, Theatre (UR#:BOOKS002909I) Offered for sale by William Altman Books at US$15.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; NY: Doubleday, 1954. 1st ed., Bit of browning/spotting (light) to end papers and pastedowns. Remainder slash to top page edges. A VG copy in worn but VG- d.j., General GENERAL (UR#:639) Offered for sale by True Treasures at US$18.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; William Heinemann, London 1954, first edition, in excellent condition, no dj,in original purple cloth, 313 pages, index, 52 rare books, lit firsts FIRST GAY NUSIC PLAYS THEATRE DRAMA COMEDY PLAYWRIGHT AUTOBIOGRAPHY (UR#:24721) Offered for sale by Beacon Hill Productions at Can$40.00
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Coward,Noel.: Future Indefinite. paper.new. ; Offered for sale by Drama Books at US$9.95
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Melbourne: William Heinemann, Ltd., 1954. First Edition, Hard Cover, Good/No Jacket, 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall Out of Print in Hardcover. Spine is faded;otherwise, Very Good., With Photographs, Photographs - General (UR#:000888) Offered for sale by Pinchpenny Books at US$12.00
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Coward, Noel : Future Indefinite ; 18051 1954 1st edition William Heinemann 8vo Blue cloth,gilt emblem to front and title to spine,spine sunned,light foxing to pp edges,336pp,illustrated in black and white,internally very good.Obituary of noel Coward loosely tipped in. Offered for sale by Bookbarn Ltd at £10.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; London, Heinemann 1954: 1st, 22 x 14cm, violet cloth, gilt, 336pp, index, b&w photos, uneven fading to spine & covers, moderate internal foxing, just gd/--. * T.E. Lawrence and Coward were friends. [O'Brien F0235] {hac} t e lawrence lawrence of arabia 5666 Offered for sale by Denis McDonnell, Bookseller at US$16.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; William Heinemann 1954 1st Edition, VG+/G, 8VO, DJ has considerable shelfwear with the usual small chips and tears on edges and discoloration, B/W photos, B/W photo of author in frontis. A second volume of autobiography. 336pp (0100R), Autobiographies & Biographies HC DJ 1ST Autobiographies & Biographies (UR#:1540) Offered for sale by Quadra Books at US$8.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; 1st edition, NY: Doubleday, 1954. Good to very good copy in dust jacket. Offered for sale by Aldredge Book Store at US$15.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Garden City, New York: Doubleday + Company, 1954. 1st, hb, good, with fair dj., box 1 (UR#:BOOKS001127I) Offered for sale by Clermont Book Store at US$17.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; 352 pages. Garden City, NY. Doubleday. 1954. Hardback. Very Good+/Very Good-. (Minor tears in DJ can be mended.) MEMOIRS by the Brilliant Brit. Biography Gay. Biography General. Plays. #980157. Offered for sale by JONATHAN BOOKMAN, BOOKSELLER at US$14.75
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; NY: Doubleday, 1954. First edition. Some fading to bottom of spine, else book is VG in very worn, torn DJ. Postpaid. Offered for sale by Vicki Moor, Bookseller at US$7.50
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Coward, Noel.: Future Indefinite A Second Volume of Autobiography. ; Heinemann 1954. 1st ed. 22x14cm. viii. 336pp. Num b/w ills. Covers slightly worn o/w good in worn and slightly soiled d/w. Memoirs of the actor, songster, playwright. ENGLAND ENGLISH HISTORY AUTOBIOGRAPHY THEATRE ACTING MUSIC FILM Offered for sale by Alice's Bookshop at AUD30.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; NY, Doubleday 1954: 1st, 8vo, black cloth, 352pp, index, b&w photos, moderate soil to covers w/small fray on rear cover, else vg/--. * Noel Coward and T.E. Lawrence were friends, correspondents and critics of each other's works. [O'Brien F0236] {hac} t e lawrence of arabia 4961 Offered for sale by Denis McDonnell, Bookseller at US$15.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite - A Memoir ; Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1954. 1st st., G-VG DJ rub chip sme sm trs RPD. 8vo sm. 352 pp., Biography Coward Noel Memoir Composer Actor Author 1939 - 1945 (UR#:000629) Offered for sale by L. Kaplan---Books at US$21.00
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Coward,Noel.: Future Indefinite. ; Garden City:1954,352pp.22illus. lst ed.hardbound.orig.ed. lst ed. covers slightly soiled. Offered for sale by Drama Books at US$16.00
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COWARD, NOEL: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; London: William Heinemann Ltd., 1954 1st ed. 8 5/8" cobalt blue cloth bdg. with gilt-stamped front board & spine. Illus. with b/w frontispice portrait and 39 phototypes all on gloss paper plates. VG(Scuffed edges spine & corners, ex-libris paper plate tipped inner front board, pap er lightly yellowed, cuttings from dj. and newsprint tipped on front and back fly leaf and end paper)/no dj., BIOGRAPHY British literature British theater British playwrights British plays (UR#:852) Offered for sale by Odyssey Books at US$10.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Company , Inc., 1954. No Edition, Cloth, Near Fine/Good, 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall Edgeworn DJ in brodart, B/W photos throughout, index. 352pp, Autobiographies & Biographies Noel Coward Gertrude LawrenceMarlene Deitrich Jack Nash Bert Lister Judy Campbell Joyce Carey (UR#:4457) Offered for sale by Quadra Books at US$9.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; N.Y.: Doubleday, 1954. First edition, Very good in jacket that is worn at the extremeties., Drama (UR#:4290) Offered for sale by A Cappella Books at US$25.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite, A Second Volume of Autobiography ; London: William Heinemann, 1954. First Edition, 336 pages Good, Faded cover edges with good chipped DJ, Biography Literary Biography World War II Paris Roosevelt (UR#:000704) Offered for sale by Bretton Hall Antiquities at US$15.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; New York: Doubleday and Co., 1954. First, Very Good No DJ Small stains on boards, otherwise clean/ tight, Photographs, HB, Biography Biography Autobiography (UR#:BOOKS001015I) Offered for sale by Huckleberry Books at US$10.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; Doubleday, Garden City, 1954 1st Ed VG HB in Tatty DJ 5.8 x 8.6 352pp, index With 16 full-page plates. N OTE: Contains many references to Australia and to Lord and Lady Casey. . The sec ond volume of Coward autobiography, General (UR#:01664) Offered for sale by Piscataway & Potomac Books at US$22.50
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Melbourne: William Heinemann, Ltd., 1954. First Edition, Hard Cover, Very Good/No Jacket, 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall Out of Print in Hardcover. Small whitespot of front cover, very tiny tear to spine., With Photographs, Photographs - General (UR#:001170) Offered for sale by Pinchpenny Books at US$12.50
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Garden City: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1954. Very Good in chipped and rubbed DJ, Yellowing to pages. Former owner signature., HC, Theatre Biographies (UR#:BOOKS3024379I) Offered for sale by Book Baron, Anaheim at US$15.00
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COWARD, Noel.: Future Indefinite. A second volume of autobiography. ; Heineman.. 1954.. 336pp.. 0.00. B&W plates. . Offered for sale by Da Capo Music Bookshop at AUD20.00
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COWARD,Noel : Future Indefinite. ; COWARD, Noel. Future Indefinite. Illus. Thick 8vo, cloth. Garden City, 1954. , DRAMA BIOG (UR#:G17141 ) Offered for sale by argosy book store at US$25.00
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COWARD, Noel.: FUTURE INDEFINITE. ; London. Heinemann. 1st ed. 1954. viii+336pp. B/w frontis. and thirty-six b/w plates. d/w (a little chipped). Very good. The second installment in his autobiography. film movies show stage english cinema biography music theatre drama Offered for sale by Reading Matters at AUD35.00
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Coward, Noel: future indefinite ; Heinemann, William 1954 VG, ill. *UNK 30644 Offered for sale by The Bohemian Bookworm at US$30.00
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COWARD, NOEL: Future Indefinite ; Doubleday, Good Condition, Hardcover Edition: 1954 With Illustrations (UR#:BB003488) Offered for sale by Buccaneer Books, Inc. at US$29.00
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COWARD, NOEL: Future Indefinite ; New York: Doubleday, (1954). 8vo.Or.cl.d.w. (VIII,352pp.). With 16 full-page plates. 1st ed. NOTE: Contains many references to Australia and to Lord and Lady Casey., Biography Literature Theatre (UR#:BOOKS012754I) Offered for sale by Bryan Matthews at US$40.00
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COWARD, NOEL: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; NY: DA CAPO, 1954. GOOD,LT SHELF WEAR,SM SCUFFS COVER,LT SPOTS FORE EDGES, WRAPPERS, 352PP, AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY, ILLUS. B & W, 2ND VOLUME ONLY, AUTOBIOGRAPHY COWARD, NOEL ENGLISH DRAMATIST THEATER ACTOR COMPOSER 2ND VOLUME ONLY (UR#:MAIN056767I) Offered for sale by HPFRI at US$12.00
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"Coward, Noel": "FUTURE INDEFINITE," ; " London:Heinemann, 1954, " "1st ed., VG/G+-nicks, tears, sm. piece off Bk. Cover" non-fiction 10965 Offered for sale by Bruce Fenton at US$23.00
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COWARD, NOEL : FUTURE INDEFINITE ; COWARD, Noel. FUTURE INDEFINITE. Illustrated. Garden City: Doubleday, 1954 8vo., black cloth in dust jacket. First Edition. The second volume of Coward autobiography. Signed by Coward on a specially tipped-in page, as issued. V near fine (just a hint of fade to binding); little wear (small tears along edges) d/j. $250.00 , EL MODERN ESSAY SGND (UR#:17818 ) Offered for sale by Antic Hay Books at US$250.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1954. First U.S. edition. SIGNED by Coward on the tipped-in flyleaf. Near fine with heavy offsetting to both sets of endpapers, in a photo-pictorial dust jacket with light rubbing to rear panel, nicks to spine ends and corner tips, and light wear to edges. This second installment in the Master's memoirs covers the war years. Illustrated with many photographs. Literary Biography. Signed. Theatre. Musical Theatre. 13917.00 Offered for sale by Bookfellows at US$150.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; William Heinemann (c)1954 . . . Excel/Good Hardcover (Sunned, Some pen marks inside) Dustjacket (Big tears all over the cover, Creased cover, Rubbing around edges) [E136-1] CINEMA BIOGRAPHY CB120944 Offered for sale by Book City at US$20.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; William Heinemann, 1954. first Eng imp, HB, . many photos. Book VG cond, slight wear covers, no dj (UR#:BOOKS001731I) Offered for sale by Melanie Nelson at US$13.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; London: William Heinemann, 1954. covers and spine faded, good plus, photo's illust, Biography Literature Movie Stars Memoirs Plays (UR#:MASTER000050I) Offered for sale by Old Favorites Bookshop Ltd. (since 1954) at US$30.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; London: Heinemann, 1954. 1st ed, hardcover, VG- in cloth (sl stains/rub to cloth; sl fraying/foot of spine), Third volume of memoirs, covering the war years and after; dedicated to Clemence Dane., 38 b/w photos / plates, Literary Criticism Coward, Noel English Literature 20th century Autobiography Biography Memoir World War II (UR#:BOOKS019797I) Offered for sale by Arundel Antiquarian Books at US$30.00
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COWARD, Noel. : Future Indefinite. ; London: William Heinemann, (1954). First edition. Touch of fading at foot of the spine o/w fine in a d/w with wear to spine ends but still very good. Literature 18th-20th Century 1946 C$45 Offered for sale by David Mason Books at US$33.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Great Britain: William Heinemann, 1954. 1st, Near Fine (attractive dark blue cloth, gold titles), 336, Illustrated. Index. (UR#:BOOKS005907I) Offered for sale by Konigsmark Books at US$30.00
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Coward, Noel.: Future Indefinite: a second volume of autobiography. ; London, Heinemann, 1954, 1st ed., Large 8vo, vg/g+, dw edgeworn, dw taped to eps, 336p, plates., General (UR#:5309) Offered for sale by Alba Books at £8.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; 2352 William Heinemann London 1954 HC 1st Book vg jacket good+- small piece missing top & bottom spine - postage paid US Offered for sale by Lion Paw Books at US$18.00
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Coward,Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; William Heinemann Ltd, 1954. Hardcover, Light wear to cover,else good.No dust jacket, 336 pages, AUTOBIOGRAPHY THEATER (UR#:MAIN001397I) Offered for sale by Lincoln Out-of-Print Book Search at US$25.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; NY, Doubleday and Company, Inc., 1954, Octavo, Illustrated, VG+/ VG-, Entertainment THEATRE DRAMA PLAYWRIGHT ACTOR AUTHOR COMPOSER PLAY STAGE PERFORMANCE (UR#:5560) Offered for sale by Emerald City Fine Books at US$15.00
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COWARD, Noel: Future Indefinite ; London, 1954, 1st edition ppviii, 336, photo plates; 8vo, cloth. Old tape marks and a little browning, else very good in d/w The second volume in his autobiography Offered for sale by Louella Kerr & Lorraine Reed Old Fine & Rare Books at AUD25.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE. ; 1st, hardcover, Coward, Noel. FUTURE INDEFINITE. London: Heinemann, 1954 Name. About fine; the dust jacket has short closed tears, moderate edge, ML ML AUTOBIOGRAPHY hardcover dustjacket (UR#:BOOKS007454I) Offered for sale by Else Fine Books at US$85.00
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COWARD, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; London: Heinemann, 1954. 1st Edn. D8, viii,336pp., fp., illus., index. Fine copy in good (prot.) d/w, chipped top spine & corners The author's second autobiography pa theatre eng thea biog film lit mod1 illus Offered for sale by Cambria Books at AUD25.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Garden City: Doubleday & Co., 1954. Cloth, Very Good/Good in Mylar, 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall Some edge wear and chips on the spine, Literature (UR#:2435) Offered for sale by Russian Hill Bookstore at US$20.00
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Coward, Noel.: FUTURE INDEFINITE. ; FUTURE INDEFINITE. London: William Heinemann Ltd., (1954). 8vo, blue cloth (lightly bumped; small tear to bottom edge of front cover; rubbing & crease to head of spine) titled in gilt, in dw (rubbed & chipped; rear panel darkened & soiled; dw spine slightly faded with piece out of head). viii & 336 pp. (stain to front endpaper). B&W portrait frontispiece & profuse B&W illustrations. Good. ///First edition.///Noel Coward's second volume of autobiography covering the World War II years and his wartime travels to America and to army bases around the world. LITERATURE; THEATER; AUTOBIOGRAPHY; PLAYWRIGHT; SONGWRITER; BRITISH; WORLD WAR II; FIRST EDITION. Offered for sale by Blue Mountain Books & Manuscripts, Ltd. at US$20.00
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Coward, Noel: Future indefinite ; Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1954. HB, G/Poor, Black cover & text fairly tight & clean, dj edgeworn on front, lg chunk missing top back, in Brodart, address sticker on flylf, Biography Noel Coward Memoirs (UR#:OLDBOOKS000157I) Offered for sale by The Last Word at US$5.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; London: Heinemann, 1954. First, Fair, Fine/Fair DW, Signature of Harriet Van Horne, radio persona;lity on FEp, Theatre (UR#:BOOKS002909I) Offered for sale by William Altman Books at US$15.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; NY: Doubleday, 1954. 1st ed., Bit of browning/spotting (light) to end papers and pastedowns. Remainder slash to top page edges. A VG copy in worn but VG- d.j., General GENERAL (UR#:639) Offered for sale by True Treasures at US$18.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; William Heinemann, London 1954, first edition, in excellent condition, no dj,in original purple cloth, 313 pages, index, 52 rare books, lit firsts FIRST GAY NUSIC PLAYS THEATRE DRAMA COMEDY PLAYWRIGHT AUTOBIOGRAPHY (UR#:24721) Offered for sale by Beacon Hill Productions at Can$40.00
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Coward,Noel.: Future Indefinite. paper.new. ; Offered for sale by Drama Books at US$9.95
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Melbourne: William Heinemann, Ltd., 1954. First Edition, Hard Cover, Good/No Jacket, 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall Out of Print in Hardcover. Spine is faded;otherwise, Very Good., With Photographs, Photographs - General (UR#:000888) Offered for sale by Pinchpenny Books at US$12.00
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Coward, Noel : Future Indefinite ; 18051 1954 1st edition William Heinemann 8vo Blue cloth,gilt emblem to front and title to spine,spine sunned,light foxing to pp edges,336pp,illustrated in black and white,internally very good.Obituary of noel Coward loosely tipped in. Offered for sale by Bookbarn Ltd at £10.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; London, Heinemann 1954: 1st, 22 x 14cm, violet cloth, gilt, 336pp, index, b&w photos, uneven fading to spine & covers, moderate internal foxing, just gd/--. * T.E. Lawrence and Coward were friends. [O'Brien F0235] {hac} t e lawrence lawrence of arabia 5666 Offered for sale by Denis McDonnell, Bookseller at US$16.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; William Heinemann 1954 1st Edition, VG+/G, 8VO, DJ has considerable shelfwear with the usual small chips and tears on edges and discoloration, B/W photos, B/W photo of author in frontis. A second volume of autobiography. 336pp (0100R), Autobiographies & Biographies HC DJ 1ST Autobiographies & Biographies (UR#:1540) Offered for sale by Quadra Books at US$8.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; 1st edition, NY: Doubleday, 1954. Good to very good copy in dust jacket. Offered for sale by Aldredge Book Store at US$15.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Garden City, New York: Doubleday + Company, 1954. 1st, hb, good, with fair dj., box 1 (UR#:BOOKS001127I) Offered for sale by Clermont Book Store at US$17.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; 352 pages. Garden City, NY. Doubleday. 1954. Hardback. Very Good+/Very Good-. (Minor tears in DJ can be mended.) MEMOIRS by the Brilliant Brit. Biography Gay. Biography General. Plays. #980157. Offered for sale by JONATHAN BOOKMAN, BOOKSELLER at US$14.75
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; NY: Doubleday, 1954. First edition. Some fading to bottom of spine, else book is VG in very worn, torn DJ. Postpaid. Offered for sale by Vicki Moor, Bookseller at US$7.50
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Coward, Noel.: Future Indefinite A Second Volume of Autobiography. ; Heinemann 1954. 1st ed. 22x14cm. viii. 336pp. Num b/w ills. Covers slightly worn o/w good in worn and slightly soiled d/w. Memoirs of the actor, songster, playwright. ENGLAND ENGLISH HISTORY AUTOBIOGRAPHY THEATRE ACTING MUSIC FILM Offered for sale by Alice's Bookshop at AUD30.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; NY, Doubleday 1954: 1st, 8vo, black cloth, 352pp, index, b&w photos, moderate soil to covers w/small fray on rear cover, else vg/--. * Noel Coward and T.E. Lawrence were friends, correspondents and critics of each other's works. [O'Brien F0236] {hac} t e lawrence of arabia 4961 Offered for sale by Denis McDonnell, Bookseller at US$15.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite - A Memoir ; Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1954. 1st st., G-VG DJ rub chip sme sm trs RPD. 8vo sm. 352 pp., Biography Coward Noel Memoir Composer Actor Author 1939 - 1945 (UR#:000629) Offered for sale by L. Kaplan---Books at US$21.00
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Coward,Noel.: Future Indefinite. ; Garden City:1954,352pp.22illus. lst ed.hardbound.orig.ed. lst ed. covers slightly soiled. Offered for sale by Drama Books at US$16.00
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COWARD, NOEL: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; London: William Heinemann Ltd., 1954 1st ed. 8 5/8" cobalt blue cloth bdg. with gilt-stamped front board & spine. Illus. with b/w frontispice portrait and 39 phototypes all on gloss paper plates. VG(Scuffed edges spine & corners, ex-libris paper plate tipped inner front board, pap er lightly yellowed, cuttings from dj. and newsprint tipped on front and back fly leaf and end paper)/no dj., BIOGRAPHY British literature British theater British playwrights British plays (UR#:852) Offered for sale by Odyssey Books at US$10.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Company , Inc., 1954. No Edition, Cloth, Near Fine/Good, 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall Edgeworn DJ in brodart, B/W photos throughout, index. 352pp, Autobiographies & Biographies Noel Coward Gertrude LawrenceMarlene Deitrich Jack Nash Bert Lister Judy Campbell Joyce Carey (UR#:4457) Offered for sale by Quadra Books at US$9.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; N.Y.: Doubleday, 1954. First edition, Very good in jacket that is worn at the extremeties., Drama (UR#:4290) Offered for sale by A Cappella Books at US$25.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite, A Second Volume of Autobiography ; London: William Heinemann, 1954. First Edition, 336 pages Good, Faded cover edges with good chipped DJ, Biography Literary Biography World War II Paris Roosevelt (UR#:000704) Offered for sale by Bretton Hall Antiquities at US$15.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; New York: Doubleday and Co., 1954. First, Very Good No DJ Small stains on boards, otherwise clean/ tight, Photographs, HB, Biography Biography Autobiography (UR#:BOOKS001015I) Offered for sale by Huckleberry Books at US$10.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; Doubleday, Garden City, 1954 1st Ed VG HB in Tatty DJ 5.8 x 8.6 352pp, index With 16 full-page plates. N OTE: Contains many references to Australia and to Lord and Lady Casey. . The sec ond volume of Coward autobiography, General (UR#:01664) Offered for sale by Piscataway & Potomac Books at US$22.50
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Melbourne: William Heinemann, Ltd., 1954. First Edition, Hard Cover, Very Good/No Jacket, 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall Out of Print in Hardcover. Small whitespot of front cover, very tiny tear to spine., With Photographs, Photographs - General (UR#:001170) Offered for sale by Pinchpenny Books at US$12.50
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Garden City: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1954. Very Good in chipped and rubbed DJ, Yellowing to pages. Former owner signature., HC, Theatre Biographies (UR#:BOOKS3024379I) Offered for sale by Book Baron, Anaheim at US$15.00
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COWARD, Noel.: Future Indefinite. A second volume of autobiography. ; Heineman.. 1954.. 336pp.. 0.00. B&W plates. . Offered for sale by Da Capo Music Bookshop at AUD20.00
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COWARD,Noel : Future Indefinite. ; COWARD, Noel. Future Indefinite. Illus. Thick 8vo, cloth. Garden City, 1954. , DRAMA BIOG (UR#:G17141 ) Offered for sale by argosy book store at US$25.00
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COWARD, Noel.: FUTURE INDEFINITE. ; London. Heinemann. 1st ed. 1954. viii+336pp. B/w frontis. and thirty-six b/w plates. d/w (a little chipped). Very good. The second installment in his autobiography. film movies show stage english cinema biography music theatre drama Offered for sale by Reading Matters at AUD35.00
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Coward, Noel: future indefinite ; Heinemann, William 1954 VG, ill. *UNK 30644 Offered for sale by The Bohemian Bookworm at US$30.00
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COWARD, NOEL: Future Indefinite ; Doubleday, Good Condition, Hardcover Edition: 1954 With Illustrations (UR#:BB003488) Offered for sale by Buccaneer Books, Inc. at US$29.00
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COWARD, NOEL: Future Indefinite ; New York: Doubleday, (1954). 8vo.Or.cl.d.w. (VIII,352pp.). With 16 full-page plates. 1st ed. NOTE: Contains many references to Australia and to Lord and Lady Casey., Biography Literature Theatre (UR#:BOOKS012754I) Offered for sale by Bryan Matthews at US$40.00
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COWARD, NOEL: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; NY: DA CAPO, 1954. GOOD,LT SHELF WEAR,SM SCUFFS COVER,LT SPOTS FORE EDGES, WRAPPERS, 352PP, AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY, ILLUS. B & W, 2ND VOLUME ONLY, AUTOBIOGRAPHY COWARD, NOEL ENGLISH DRAMATIST THEATER ACTOR COMPOSER 2ND VOLUME ONLY (UR#:MAIN056767I) Offered for sale by HPFRI at US$12.00
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"Coward, Noel": "FUTURE INDEFINITE," ; " London:Heinemann, 1954, " "1st ed., VG/G+-nicks, tears, sm. piece off Bk. Cover" non-fiction 10965 Offered for sale by Bruce Fenton at US$23.00
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COWARD, NOEL : FUTURE INDEFINITE ; COWARD, Noel. FUTURE INDEFINITE. Illustrated. Garden City: Doubleday, 1954 8vo., black cloth in dust jacket. First Edition. The second volume of Coward autobiography. Signed by Coward on a specially tipped-in page, as issued. V near fine (just a hint of fade to binding); little wear (small tears along edges) d/j. $250.00 , EL MODERN ESSAY SGND (UR#:17818 ) Offered for sale by Antic Hay Books at US$250.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1954. First U.S. edition. SIGNED by Coward on the tipped-in flyleaf. Near fine with heavy offsetting to both sets of endpapers, in a photo-pictorial dust jacket with light rubbing to rear panel, nicks to spine ends and corner tips, and light wear to edges. This second installment in the Master's memoirs covers the war years. Illustrated with many photographs. Literary Biography. Signed. Theatre. Musical Theatre. 13917.00 Offered for sale by Bookfellows at US$150.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; William Heinemann (c)1954 . . . Excel/Good Hardcover (Sunned, Some pen marks inside) Dustjacket (Big tears all over the cover, Creased cover, Rubbing around edges) [E136-1] CINEMA BIOGRAPHY CB120944 Offered for sale by Book City at US$20.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; William Heinemann, 1954. first Eng imp, HB, . many photos. Book VG cond, slight wear covers, no dj (UR#:BOOKS001731I) Offered for sale by Melanie Nelson at US$13.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; London: William Heinemann, 1954. covers and spine faded, good plus, photo's illust, Biography Literature Movie Stars Memoirs Plays (UR#:MASTER000050I) Offered for sale by Old Favorites Bookshop Ltd. (since 1954) at US$30.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; London: Heinemann, 1954. 1st ed, hardcover, VG- in cloth (sl stains/rub to cloth; sl fraying/foot of spine), Third volume of memoirs, covering the war years and after; dedicated to Clemence Dane., 38 b/w photos / plates, Literary Criticism Coward, Noel English Literature 20th century Autobiography Biography Memoir World War II (UR#:BOOKS019797I) Offered for sale by Arundel Antiquarian Books at US$30.00
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COWARD, Noel. : Future Indefinite. ; London: William Heinemann, (1954). First edition. Touch of fading at foot of the spine o/w fine in a d/w with wear to spine ends but still very good. Literature 18th-20th Century 1946 C$45 Offered for sale by David Mason Books at US$33.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; Great Britain: William Heinemann, 1954. 1st, Near Fine (attractive dark blue cloth, gold titles), 336, Illustrated. Index. (UR#:BOOKS005907I) Offered for sale by Konigsmark Books at US$30.00
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Coward, Noel.: Future Indefinite: a second volume of autobiography. ; London, Heinemann, 1954, 1st ed., Large 8vo, vg/g+, dw edgeworn, dw taped to eps, 336p, plates., General (UR#:5309) Offered for sale by Alba Books at £8.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; 2352 William Heinemann London 1954 HC 1st Book vg jacket good+- small piece missing top & bottom spine - postage paid US Offered for sale by Lion Paw Books at US$18.00
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Coward,Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE ; William Heinemann Ltd, 1954. Hardcover, Light wear to cover,else good.No dust jacket, 336 pages, AUTOBIOGRAPHY THEATER (UR#:MAIN001397I) Offered for sale by Lincoln Out-of-Print Book Search at US$25.00
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Coward, Noel: Future Indefinite ; NY, Doubleday and Company, Inc., 1954, Octavo, Illustrated, VG+/ VG-, Entertainment THEATRE DRAMA PLAYWRIGHT ACTOR AUTHOR COMPOSER PLAY STAGE PERFORMANCE (UR#:5560) Offered for sale by Emerald City Fine Books at US$15.00
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COWARD, Noel: Future Indefinite ; London, 1954, 1st edition ppviii, 336, photo plates; 8vo, cloth. Old tape marks and a little browning, else very good in d/w The second volume in his autobiography Offered for sale by Louella Kerr & Lorraine Reed Old Fine & Rare Books at AUD25.00
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Coward, Noel: FUTURE INDEFINITE. ; 1st, hardcover, Coward, Noel. FUTURE INDEFINITE. London: Heinemann, 1954 Name. About fine; the dust jacket has short closed tears, moderate edge, ML ML AUTOBIOGRAPHY hardcover dustjacket (UR#:BOOKS007454I) Offered for sale by Else Fine Books at US$85.00
There were lots more.
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
November 30, 1999 - 02:38 pm
HI, GINNY! Glad you came by - you are the foremost authority on English theatre we have and we need you! You certainly should have told me earlier (I'm a dunce in this field!) that the play "After the Ball" was an adaptation of Oscar Wilde's play - "Lady Windermer's Fan." Payn says that "because of his quick verbal wit, Noel was often compared to Wilde, but comparable isn't identical. There's an underlying affection in Noel's wit that's lacking in Wilde's, though Noel certainly felt the desire to compete as his Diaries reveal: 'I am forced to admit that the more Coward we can get into the script and the more Wilde we can eliminate, the happier we shall be.' Noel felt that Oscar was a 'tiresome, affected sod…a silly, conceited, inadequate creature…."
They sound delightful fellows to discuss don't they?
Graham Payn's book is not written very well; one of those that goes forward year-by-year, play-by-play and so I shall skip around in it - the book by Philip Hoare, though long, is good and I shall continue reading it until we get a few more people interested.
How would you like to do this? Stick to the one autobiography of Coward's that is in the heading? I loved it - it covers the war years which ties in with the GOOD WAR discussion - it is easy to read - as you can see, it was so interesting I felt I had to know him better. And with the holidays coming up, perhaps we should keep it simple???? Just do the one and if enough people are interested, we could do more at a later date?
I smiled at this quote from his Diaries: (21 Dec. 1967) - "Oh, how fortunate I was to have been born poor…Had my formative years been passed in more assured circumstances I might easily have slipped into precociousness; as it was I merely had to slip OUT of precociousness and bring home the bacon!"
Ella Gibbons
December 4, 1999 - 08:30 am
Joan Grimes expressed an interest I think! We'll see if this will fly or not; meanwhile I'm enjoying this huge bio by Phillip Hoare (would you change your name if that were you?). NC made his first trip to America at the age of 21, fun to read his impressions - upon returning to England he spent a holiday with his mother at St. Mary-in-the-Marsh which sounds a lovely part of England.
Nearby is Rye - Ginny, I'm sure your trip to England will include this area as NC met so many literary and eccentric figures there among whom were E.F.Benson. My, my all these lesbian and homosexual people in one place and all very creative; I've read about most of them but Marlene Dietrich?
NC often was told he was "clever and knows it" and he always logically commented "How do they think I could be clever and not know it?" Haha!
He is, at this time, beginning to know the upper classes
of whom he wrote:
Down with the idle rich!
the bloated upper classes.
They drive to Lord's
In expensive Fords
With their jewelled op'ra glasses.
I remember reading about the redoubtable Elsa Maxwell when I was young and her abilities as a hostess although I did not know she was British.
Are you learning anything new about NC?
Betty H
December 5, 1999 - 01:52 pm
Well, hello and hear ah is down in sunnahy Flooridah with all the smiley people! We are gearing up with lights blooming.
Now about the title song; I remember my Mother sitting at the piano singing it with great feeling when I was quite small...6 or 7 could it be? So it definitely came out between wars.
Now I must find the book and anyother stuff by, and on NC. This should be fun, yes?
Betty
Ella Gibbons
December 5, 1999 - 03:29 pm
HELLO BETTY! GLAD YOU ARE BACK FROM THE HOSPITAL!
People in the South are supposed to be cheery, warm from the sun and in the best of health - and you land in the hospital!!!!!! You're not doing something right!
This discussion should be fun - just grab anything you can find about Noel Coward and join in! I've read his autobio and am halfway through the second (HUGE!) book about him - he's 25 years old now and is recognized by the British as a wonderfully creative and successful playwright and actor, etc. Just beginning the very successful years with his play "THE VORTEX" - ridiculing the upper classes (which even they seem to like). He's good friends with the Prince of Wales, the one that abdicated - will England ever forgive? - and is even rumored to be a bit more than that, and he travels with royalty and the landed gentry.
Ginny
December 5, 1999 - 04:02 pm
I JUST got mine yesterday and have just unwrapped it, so glad our Hendie is OUT of any hospital, she's far too luminous to be stuck in one! Good thing that didn't occur in Chicago!!!
How far should we try to read and what's the schedule, Ella?
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
December 6, 1999 - 09:17 am
Oh, Ginny, I haven't done a schedule yet as I think you and I are the only ones who have the book. Is your book from Bibliofind in good condition? The one my Library got for me is pasted together with scotch mailing tape and coming apart from the binding, but fortunately all the pages were there! I must renew it today, but it is nice to see a book used - this one certainly has been - and I wonder who all have read it and why.
The book written by Graham Payn was just published in 1994 and the other bio in 1995; perhaps NC is just coming into favor again - he died in the '70's I believe.
Betty, who may or may not, read the book - is here to tell us about the WWII years that this book covers and her recollections of England in that period - have the nightmarish bombings become faded with time, Betty? What were you involved with during the war - and your friends, parents? Any brothers in the war?
My library had a copy of the video "Hope and Glory" which Betty had recommended I take a look at; perhaps the movie was made to show the world that despite the terror and the destruction around them, life continued on as usual - children playing among the rubble, young girls falling in love, quarrels among the grown-ups, etc. And I must go back to NC's book to remember several incidents in his life of those war years which relate to the theatre. I'm almost at the '40's in this bio by Hoare which is detailed almost month by month!
Ginny, give us a date you would like to start reading - or shall we wait and hope for one more person in the discussion?
Ella Gibbons
December 6, 1999 - 10:34 am
Graham Payn on the theatre during WWII:
The theatre was in a state of chaos in those early months of the war. Nobody knew whether the theatres would be closed, who would be available, for how long, before they were called up………Shows went on many nights when it was more than a little foolhardy. The stubborn determination of the artistes to dab on a little Leichner No. 5 & 9, rather than cower in an air raid shelter, waiting for the skies to fall, encouraged our audiences to stick it out. Carry on London! A small "Notice" in the Saville theatre programme said a lot about those out-of-joint times. It read 'There is accommodation for everyone in the Theatre in the spacious salon underneathe the Orchestra Stalls. It is the most luxurious AIR RAID SHELTER IN LONDON. In case of a warning, an announcement will be made from the Stage, and for those who wish to leave, there is a Public Shelter immediately opposite the front of the Theatre. DON'T FORGET YOUR GAS-MASK
It is interesting to note (in the light of the discussion of Alice Annotated currently under discussion here) that in 1944 there was a revival of the musical version of "Alice in Wonderland" at the Palace Theatre in London; Graham Payn tells amusing stories of the production in which he starred with Peggy Cummins, Sybil Thorndike and Margaret Rutherford, and further says: "Despite the fact that thousands of London children had been evacuated to the safety of the country, in they came but, alas, not in numbers to match their peacetime attendance. We finished our scheduled five-week run and silently stole away."
I've been reading/lurking in that discussion of "Alice" with great interest and several have mentioned the drugs used by the Victorians; NC and many of the literary crowd he associated with also used opium and cocaine at their parties; the 1920's saw many disilllusioned young people "after the war to end all wars" and to quote Hoare -
"Coward's lack of seriousness…….., his flippant, devil-may-care view of life … was a protest against the solemnity of his elders and betters - discredited by the mistakes of the Great War. What is Coward saying? That life is facile and fleeting and artificiality is all? The joy …..of Coward's work in general is that we do not know."
Ella Gibbons
December 7, 1999 - 05:16 pm
BETTY! Are you there - or here?
How do I know these songs - it's a real puzzle to me - as I know I'm a bit younger than your mother? I recognized "I'll see you again" as soon as I read it in one of the URL's I posted and here's another one in Payn's book that I've heard. "A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square." I could hum that for you if you were here.
Do you remember it? Judy Campbell, an English actress, was playing in a 1940 revue called New Faces when she first met Noel Coward and she later toured with him during the war putting on concerts for the troops. Do you remember her by any chance? I have no idea if you were at all interested in the theatre at that time - if I were being bombed every night or so, I doubt that would be on my mind, but she sang the Nightingale song in that revue.
Also during the war, she was in two of his new productions - PRESENT LAUGHTER and - THIS HAPPY BREED. Another older play - BLITHE SPIRIT - was running at the Piccadilly during this time!
NC's philosophy during the war was that if the provinces can't come to the theatre, we will go to the provinces and that they did for a six-month stint!
Does any of this jar your memory? Or does it mind being jarred is what I should ask you?
Nowhere so far have I come across NC doing intelligence work - but have a ways to go in one book. THE SECRET WILL OUT SOMEWHERE - we will dig this out. Did he get paid? Why doesn't he mention this himself in his autobiography? And why didn't Graham Payn - his friend and companion mention this in his book which was written in 1994? He was with him during his last years and when he died in Jamaica.
Betty H
December 7, 1999 - 06:17 pm
Ella, my goodness so many questions! I'm still catching up with things like Christmas Cards and, yes, feeling OK. A bout with a kidney stone surely knocks the stuffing out of one though.
Now, what did I do during the war? I was in the WAAF, so stationed mostly on airfields. The only times I encountered the London Blitz was when I cut it too short to get through London either going or coming from leave - and there were a few "shakey doos". Once spending the night outside Liverpool St Station which was bombed behind us and the line ahead of us, so we were stranded out in the open, squashed like sardines - mostly service people. I remember the enormous security a "tin hat" gave. We could read the smallest print from the light of the fires all around us, but the most impressive thing was to hear people singing - everywhere, between the whines of the bombs the singing voices of hundreds in their shelters.
OK Luv, bangers and mash? Bangers are big pork or beef sausages grilled or done in a frying pan, placed on top of mashed potatoes and then gravy (Bisto?). Something especially English at Christmas? Well, our mince pies were little guys about two inches across not great big plate size monsters!! I'm following you, more later..Betty
Betty H
December 8, 1999 - 05:54 am
I missed one Ella.
"A Nightingale Sang in Barkely (gees! Now I've forgotten how to spell it) Square" came out during the war. It emphasized that amongst all the destruction, the rubble and the chaos of the shattered city of London,the good things of nature were still with us. There was nothing so poignant as seeing wild flowers (or weeds) growing out of rubble and what was left of bombed out buildings, which had seeded themselves.
You know, without being there it is impossible to describe the spirit of the average Londoner. That is why I mentioned that movie to you - "Hope and Glory" because it really showed how people coped, living their daily routines - life went on, and there was such a feeling of strength and humor going out to eachother. Everyone was the same, in it together.
Ella Gibbons
December 8, 1999 - 09:56 am
Betty - that was a wonderful post and I was so moved by it - "people singing during the whine of the bombs" and the weeds growing out of the rubble. I hope you don't mind, I posted a few of your sentences in the GOOD WAR discussion; particularly "Everyone was the same, in it together."
No, I don't think we can imagine what it must have been like - that is why we are so curious perhaps? Hopefully, the peoples of the world will never have to experience such horror again.
Ella Gibbons
December 9, 1999 - 05:10 pm
BETTY - You were stationed on airfields? - wasn't that one of the worst places to be as surely the Germans were after those planes! Loved your "shakey doo" expression - BTW, do you remember a war song by the name of LONDON PRIDE? Thank goodness, I can't recall that tune as I was beginning to think there was something very wrong with my brain!! Did you get all your Christmas cards finished? I'm sure if postmen had their way, Christmas would be abolished!
Noel C. was indeed in Intelligence before and during the War - am just now reading the chapter all about it in the Philip Hoare biography - he went into the "dirty tricks" department of the SIS (forerunner of M16) along with Guy Burgess and Kim Philby! That should peak all of our interest!!!!
However, before we can proceed we need another person in the discussion who either has NC's book Future Indefinite or a book about Noel, the Master, as he is called by many. I checked in my Library this morning and there are, besides this one, 12 books written about him, 5 critiques, 1 Coward-Diaries and 1 on NC-Stage History. Any one of them would do for this discussion and what one doesn't cover another one will.
I'll keep the CANDLE lit above and hope it will light someone's way over here - Ho, ho!! Pretty, isn't it!
Betty H
December 9, 1999 - 07:54 pm
Ella, I do not recall a song called London Pride but there is a very pretty border plant by that name which I have only seen in England.
Oh yes, Jerry was after our air fields. The trick was to get all the fighters off the ground before they got there and then, very often, the runways were so pocked marked with craters that they had to come back to land elsewhere.
Tomorrow I make a consolidated effort to find reading matter on NC!
Betty
Ella Gibbons
December 13, 1999 - 01:16 pm
Hi Betty - Joan Grimes also is interested in joining our group, so as soon as all of you get your books, - and we know it is a busy time of year, so it may be after Christmas? - we can talk about NC. He was mentioned on a news program the other night - it seems there is a revival of his music and plays going on, particularly as this is his 100 birthday year.
Do you remember this song written and sung by NC sometime during the war?
Could you please oblige us with a Bren gun?
The lack of one is wounding to our pride.
Last night we found the cutest
Little German parachutist
Who looked at our kit
And giggled a bit
Then laughed until he cried.
Betty H
December 15, 1999 - 09:17 pm
Ella, I finally found the Chicago Gathering Site! Not too bright of me not to look in the obvious place, but I've been catching up with the messages and taking notice of a few not too happy happenings which I suppose come with our age group. Aren't the photographs great!
I don't remember that last NC ditty you posted. I must start reading the first book I've managed to get - I have other sources yet to go to for others.
In the meantime, happy holidays. We all pitch in here and those that don't have their families down to visit get together, so no one is alone.
Betty
patwest
December 16, 1999 - 03:52 am
Well, my library is looking for a Noel Coward biography that they are supposed to have. It's listed on the computer, but is not on the shelf.. I'll go in today and inquire again... Busy, busy with Christmas.
Ella Gibbons
December 16, 1999 - 08:09 am
Oh, good! We'll get together on this after Christmas! Tis a busy season to be sure.
Betty - you were lucky to find a winter home where everyone is so friendly and help each other. Our friends who recently moved there are finding that to be true also although they say it certainly doesn't seem like Christmas sitting on their porch writing Christmas cards and swimming in the afternoon.
Merry Christmas to all!
Ella Gibbons
January 2, 2000 - 01:51 pm
Part One gives us a wonderful glimpse into Europe immediately prior to Hitler's move toward war and his descriptions of some of these cities read better than most travel guides - makes me long to see them, although they were probably much affected by the bombings of WWII.
"Warsaw ……the ageing and ageless sense of the turbulent past brooded over it and gave me the impression that it was hanging there, suspended in time, like an ancient tapestry draped over the shining clean walls of a modern museum."
Isn't that lovely?
In NC's book he simply says his mind was uneasy and he wanted to see what was going on, and after discussing a trip with the Foreign Office, he set forth. However, in Hoare's biography:
the secrecy of his (NC) later war duties gives some credence to the theory that he was acting as an informal, freelance intelligence-gatherer. His close contacts with government sources and romantic notions of espionage combined to give a mysterious air to his mission………….New evidence suggests that he had been associated with the 'Z' organisation, a partly private agency…….to gather information on Nazi Germany. It is said that in the late 1930's Coward went to Paris for Z, possibly to make contact with an agent. His European tour seems to have been part of these duties.
Ginny, are you as curious as I am, when you read about Prince Carol Radziwill of Cracow, Poland, whom he meets and describes so well on his first leg of the journey through Europe? If I am not mistaken, Jackie Kennedy Onassis' sister married a Prince Radzibill, didn't she? Didn't you love his description of the Radziwill castle that "seemed to be waiting for us with polite resignation." Love that! And Prince Radziwill saying that it wasn't so much the Germans he feared as the Russians, and "looking at him, the typical, highbred, courteous, urbane and so much hated aristocrat, I sadly saw his point."
NC throughout his life abhorred discrimination wherever he found it (I've read numerous accounts of this statement in other books), but these sentences affords a look into how strong his views were:
He (Prince Radziwill) held strongly developed anti-Semitic views about which I argued with him whenever we hit a straight piece of road. …..We certainly did pass a lot of Jews of the Biblical sort with dusty caftans and matted black beards, who, although they looked harmless enough to me, if a trifle untidy, were commented upon by my companion with a rising flood of invective in both English and French. I realized quickly that any efforts of mine to convince him that in my experience there were a great many Jews extant who were intelligent, sensitive, generous, and kind, and a great many Christians who were the exact opposite, were doomed to failure at the outset.
Ginny, have you read the entire book or just getting started?
Pat W. said she would look in on our discussion - I hope she does more than that - makes comments from time to time. We all lived through this time period, or, at least, have heard and read much about it.
Joan G. might also join us, so let's start, folks!
The chapters in the heading are just to organize us a bit; we may proceed faster or slower!
patwest
January 2, 2000 - 02:12 pm
Ella ... great news ... my book has been shipped from Powells and should be here next week...
Ginny
January 2, 2000 - 02:52 pm
Am just starting, Ella, and am willing to go as far as you like.
OK, you've got Part I: first week. Is this the first week? I'll go read Part I and be ready, it does look good. Big article in the NY Times today about a Noel Coward on Broadway which isn't doing well, will try to read it too.
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 3, 2000 - 09:44 am
GOOD - WE ARE ONLINE and perhaps we can attract some new participants!
Pat - this is a fairly easy book to read - goes fast, so whenever you get yours, you won't be far behind.
Ginny - yes, this is the FIRST WEEK! It may go into second week - start reading or it will go into the 3rd, 4th and into infinity!
I searched the Internet for any glimmer of info on Lee Radziwill, Jackie Kennedy's sister, and all I could find was a book written about her called "The Forgotten Sister." Don't know a thing about it - do any of you? Or her?????
There is still a Radziwill castle, however, in Kracow, Poland - apparently Kracow can be spelled with either a K or a C.
Ella Gibbons
January 4, 2000 - 02:06 pm
What did you know about Noel Coward before reading this book?
Ginny - I think you have a love of "All things English" - have you seen any of his plays? Had you seen AFTER THE BALL before Chicago?
He has been called the "Mozart of comedy writers" - and was a friend of everyone who was "anybody" in the theatrical world - well, also in the political world. He loved royalty - doesn't every Englishman or woman?
Ella Gibbons
January 4, 2000 - 04:45 pm
All right, so I talk to myself! Tapping my toes until someone comes along and helps me out here!
Meanwhile there's a piece about Noel Coward in this week's TIME in the Letters section - he was on the cover of TIME Jan. 30, 1933 and from the article I quote "Some...... advancing the premise that in the last 100 years only Disraeli, Wilde and Shaw have started from nothing and conquered England as Mr. Coward has conquered."
The article states that NC is back in fashion. NOW, AREN'T WE TIMELY!
patwest
January 4, 2000 - 04:55 pm
Ella: You might think you're talking to yourself, but I'm listening.
My book came this morning. I'll go to bed early cause that's where I do my best reading.
Ginny
January 5, 2000 - 07:33 am
Ella, I'm here and I guess my thoughts this morning will be a little.....a little...point/ counterpoint, I guess.
Yes, he's a very facile writer, and what a LIFE! I'm very much enjoying Part I, but am a bit dismayed at the little...well, idiosyncracies popping out?
To put a fine hand on it, is the man a snob?
First off, the viewpoint we can get here of history is fascinating and very well written. Count Radziwill, I had no idea Jackie K was so well connected, as you said her sister married that family, Lee Radziwill, had never heard of that family.
The accounts of the castles and the resignation some people felt on the eve of WWII, some hope but mostly resignation are poignant and very staggering, the book is worth the read for those alone.
The scenes of the house party watching movies of past guests: eerie. The language, "like an ancient tapestry draped over the shining, clean walls of a modern museum." etc., wonderful writing.
On the one hand you have thoughts like "it is generally the poorer people who seem to have the real capacity for enjoying themselves; the rich are usually too bored and the middle classes too prim." Wonderful.
Yet I seem to see something else creeping out: "The loose covers and curtains in my dusty suite were so noisy that I almost had to stop up my ears." Telling, no? hahahahah
Here's my point, supposedly in refutation of Communism? "Personaly I have always believed more in quality than quantity, and nothing will convince me that the levelling of class and rank distinctions, and the contemptuous dismissal of breeding as an important factor of life, can lead to anything but a dismal mediocrity."
Zat so?
More later, is the man a snob? Can we see why he wrote the type of plays he did?
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 5, 2000 - 05:13 pm
So, Pat - did you read much last night? Are you interested in his writing - his descriptions - the sights he portrays? It's just not enough for you to say you are reading - WE WANT YOUR INPUT! And if you don't like it, say so and tell us why!
And, Ginny, certainly he was a snob! He was obsessed with class and status and never let an opportunity pass for hobnobbing with the rich, the famous and particularly, the titled! All those excursions across the Atlantic (I remember one ship was the Olympic - wasn't that the sister ship of the Titanic?) traveling first class, charming and entertaining all aboard, and he never forgot who he had met - never forgot a title! And also never doubted for a moment the British way of life.
However much Americans disdain the monarchy, the wasted money, the jewels, the castles, the pomp, etc. , aren't we fascinated by it all? Who can say they aren't interested in all the royal sons and daughters' escapades, the Prince of Wales, the mystery of the ancension to the throne? - Who do you think it will be? Charles or William?
We just wouldn't tolerate any of that nonsense here, though, would we?
Counterpoint - Noel viewed Americans "as a race spiritually impoverished. Their vulgarity is much worse than it used to be…the dollar as a god is even more enervating than the Holy Trinity." (1950's) However, later he was to make oodles of money here at a time when England was turning her back on him. He wrote this little ditty about America:
I like America, I have played around
Every slappy-happy hunting ground
But I find America, okay.
I've been about a bit, but I must admit
That I didn't know the half of it
Till I hit the U.S.A.
Back to the book - what impressed me about NC's descriptions of the cities in Russia was that they probably have not changed all that much! All the other European countries that were so devastated by WWII are now economically sound and then there is Russia - NC could have been describing the people and the sights we see on TV .
Have either of you ever heard that expression "wagon-lit" in speaking of trains?
His description of Hitler and Mussolini are funny, but not so funny, are they? NC did not like the Germans at all - he once said "With a few individual exceptions the German people have always been antipathetic to me. There is something about the Teutonic mentality that grates on my nerves. " Hoare states that NC lacked any understanding of politics - it was a consequence of the life he led; within his world, stereotyping was not only acceptable, it was necessary; to dramatise life was to exemplify characters and aspects, to reduce them to theatrical types.
Didn't you love that story about turning on the bath tap marked "hot" and watching a tadpole come out of it? Now I did laugh at that - and going on to say that in England when we turned on a tap marked "hot" water came out, but when we turned on a tap marked "hot tadpole" - owing to the efficiency of our capitalist state, a hot tadpole usually appeared! Hahaha I'm still laughing at it!
Wouldn't you just loved to have known the man?
Ginny
January 5, 2000 - 06:07 pm
Of course this is dated material, too, and the tadpole story was hilarious, truly.
I'm not sure. I guess to him....wait a minute, are you saying he is British? I didn't have the opportunity to read his first book, like the title but didn't get it, is he British? Yes, I see in the heading he was born in London.
That explains a lot and leaves a lot lacking too?
Yes, I've heard of wagon-lit, Agatha Christie uses it a lot, have always liked the sound of it, have no clue what it means?
Also did not know what Comintern meant? Uses that a lot? Do either of you know?
The scene at Radziwill's with the rain pounding on the walls of the castle was magic.
Not sure what a Palm Beach suit is?
I was surprised at the Russian streets so dirty nobody sweeping. I thought they kept them always swept? Not now maybe, it's eerie how the times seem eerily similar, no? Russians especially.
What is a droshky?
What is a grig?
That photo of Jack Wilson is a bit strange, is it not?
I guess we must take the man as he is for his time and not be too judgmental. I note he is happiest back at Cannes, the playground of the rich and titled. But he's neither rich nor titled, is he?
Can you fill us in a bit on his own background?
Ginny
Ginny
January 5, 2000 - 06:10 pm
As far as the monarcy in England? Nonsense? Ella, you are a wag! The Americans are more interested in the Royals than the British are.
I really think the Monarchy is one great thing the British have going for them. Their tax structure is ungodly: something like 65 %, clothes cost an arm and a leg, commerce is down and yet they have this marvelous pageantry and ceremony, it's unique. And very impressive.
Ginny
patwest
January 5, 2000 - 07:01 pm
Yes, Coward was my idea of an English snob, his attitude toward the Germans, reminded me a lot of my father's (he was very English) comments in the early 40's..He called them "dolts",
But Coward seemed very interested in what the feelings and thoughts were concerning the approach to war. And he brought out points that I had never considered in reading about the times in the late 30's and early 40's.
(I haven't caught up yet, but will quite soon..)
patwest
January 5, 2000 - 07:14 pm
Palm Beach suit... Light weight worsted.. usually a light shade of tan occasionally white... double-breasted... The thing to wear in the 30's and 40's for semi-casual dress... Charlie's first suit after we were married was a Palm Beach..
Comintern: Seems like it had to do with the International Communist Party.. rather an all inclusive term.
Droshky... 2 or 4 wheeled carriage... Russiian term
grig: a lively lighthearted usually small or young person
Ginny
January 6, 2000 - 03:53 am
Pat, Palm Beach suit? Have never heard the term but saw one on a trip to England, this older gentleman, very snobbish, and my mother in law and I had breakfast together on the train to Bath and he had one on, had never seen the like. He said he had been to Houston and nearly died in the heat, and remarked on "mare's tails" in the sky, a cloud formation. I can't remember whether or not that means rain?
Anyway, thanks for the definitions. I'm going to look up grig in the OED, somewhere I think carriage ought to be in the history of that word, have never heard it.
I know wagon lit is pronounced wagon Leet, will look it up too, such fun.
I agree, he does have a new viewpoint for the 30s and 40s and it's valuable to hear it "spoken," as it were, right to us today. I thought the aristocrat who looked out over her Finnish lands and remarked "They will come. We have no means of preventing them. And when they do,it will be all over." was chilling and sad. Reminds you of Pearl Buck's China.
Does it amaze you the wealth of talented, rich, and very brilliant people suddenly bursting from the pages? Why do we think WE in this day and time are so much better or more developed than those in the past? I'm glad he captured these people in print; certainly a lot of them would be lost forever.
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 7, 2000 - 07:23 am
Pat - where did you find all those definitions? That's amazing!
All the spy books I've read over the years - during the Cold War - talked about the VOX or the Intourist Agency (I think those are the correct words) - rather happy to learn it was all true!
"Sadly enough I have little to say about Finland beyond the fact that I found it enchanting and its people hospitable and kind. I say, 'sadly enough' because it is a dreary comment on human nature that recorded pleasure inevitable makes duller reading than recorded irritation and criticism."
An astute observation - the daily newspapers, magazines and news stories are testament to this statement!
This new fellow that took Yeltsin's place - wonder what he's going to do - they have had very strong leaders over there. It seems that however way the President goes, there goes the nation, and as he is a former KGB leader (Oh, heavens, how I've read books about that!) I wonder about him. Awful picture of him in TIME - looks mean!
Rasputin - as I remember he was the evil man that the Czar or Czarina (?) were using in the hope that he could cure their semi-invalid son and he was said to have gained too much power from the throne. Is this why he was killed? Who remembers that story? Wasn't it just a few years ago that the royal family's burial place and bones were identified? Mercy, mercy! But if ever I go to Russia I would like to visit St. Petersburg, the summer palace of the Royals, sounds lovely, doesn't it? It was Leningrad when NC visited and it was later Stanlingrad wasn't it?
NC was disappointed in not seeing any Russian theatre while he was there, perhaps he would have had something good to say about the country had he been able to. About a week ago, Ann and I went to our Museum for a traveling exhibit of ballet costumes from Russia dating back to the early years of this century with the sketches of them framed on the walls. They were just exquisite and so well-preserved!
Ginny - a short bio of NC: Born December 16, 1899 in Teddington, England into a middle class family who loved music; his father at one time was a professional entertainer. His parents early life had centered around the parish church of St. Albans, built in 1887 by William Niven (father of David). Their first child, Rusell, who had musical talent died at the age of 6 of spinal meningitis and one year later Noel was born and his mother was overly protective of this child.
Do you know much about Jack Wilson - NC's intimate friend for many years, actor, director and later NC's business manager; later still an alcoholic, he mismanaged NC's funds and eventually NC had to fire him although it was very difficult for him to do. For the most part when NC had a friend, it was for life!
I have 2 books here and they both have indexes to any person remotely connected with NC so if either of you want any information about anyone in the literary, political or theatrical world of this period up to the 70's let me know!
This episode with Churchill - NC should confine his war efforts to singing to the troops - was to hurt NC for the rest of his life. Graham Payn says "Noel and Winston were like two dogs sniffing around each other, anxiously protecting their turf. They were both proud of their verbal skills, and frequently matched wits."
An amusing conversation took place between the two when at a dinner table all were gossiping about the Duke of Windsor (would he or wouldn't he) and Winston, deliberatively argumentative, said "Well, I don't see why he shouldn't marry his little cutie." And NC snapped back "Because England does not want a Queen Cutie!" Hahaha
Sometime soon, I want to type in the letter Graham Payn has written to his very dear friend after his death. Payn (an actor) was with NC when he died and was the heir to his estate. His book, written in 1994, is amusing and delightful to read.
Have both of you finished Part One? That propaganda business in Paris seemed rather exaggerated to me, certainly didn't amount to much, although in the end I think it had a purpose - something to do with radar or spotting incoming planes, rather forget it right now.
Ella Gibbons
January 8, 2000 - 02:40 pm
It's just us so far. I have written to Freddie in England and hope she will join us.
Perhaps you will enjoy this site on the web. This is the place NC loved the most, died here and was buried. Did you know he was knighted late in life and in 1984 there was placed in Westminster Abby in the Poets' Corner a memorial stone with his name and dates and the words "A TALENT TO AMUSE."
Noel Coward's home and cottages in Jamaica
Do click on the sites underlined there - what a delightful place to relax! Read about Coward's guests!Ginny
January 8, 2000 - 04:48 pm
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back in here, I do find Coward's style daunting. Have you noticed there are very few, if any, paragraphs? It's just my particular bent of mind but I find my eyes just racing forward and skipping along, trying to catch up. But I'm enjoying the experience.
Ella, your enthusiasm is magic. I thought the stuff you put here about his possible spying thing were also very interesting. Can you imagine Winston Churchill on the eve of WWII and Noel Coward wanting to, well, as Churchill thought, get into "Intelligence?"
I thought Coward was poignant there and sad, but don't know enough about Churchill to know if he was habitually outspoken or what. I hope to learn as I read the WINSTON AND CLEMENTINE I've got which is surely good.
I did not know he had been Knighted, am happy for him. I hope Freddie does come in, she'd be a great resource for a lot of things here.
You mentioned having a book about his friends? Could you look up Hariett Van Horn? or Horne? I don't have the book in front of me but she signed it and apparently she was some sort of star.
I'm reading also Dominick Dunne's THE WAY WE LIVED THEN, which title I got wrong in the Library, but it's eerily like this book, filled with names, celebrities and self doubt. It's almost a point/ counterpoint. The old and the new.
Did you completely understand his "mission" in France? I sure didn't. Page after page, too? I think the next section will be more memorable, as he'll get into pre wartime France from the point of view of those watching. I did like the plane ride TO France. He has such a humorous way of phrasing things, doesn't he? Just like Dunne. I'm getting them confused, to tell you the truth, believe I'll stop with the Dunne and just do the Coward.
I regret that most of the people in the photos so far are unknown to me. Who are those two men Geoffrey Roberts and Dingwall Bateson leaving the Bow Street Police Court?
I did jump right up in my chair at this: "Joyce and Gladys and Jack and I lunched at The Ivy as usual..." I love The Ivy, had no idea it was that old, now see, Ella, you need to come to London and we'll eat at The Ivy, you, Pat and me!
I thought this was a really good quote: "the destiny of the human race was shaped by neither politicians nor dictators, but by its own inadequacy, superstition, avarice, envy , cruelty, and silliness, and that it had no right whatever to demand and expect peace on earth until it had proved itself to be deserving of it." I like that a lot.
What is an ARP gentleman? I have a feeling it's not AARP! hahahahaah
Adding to the frisson here, as Coward would say, the book itself gives off a mouldy smell which always makes me think of unpleasant things.
I'm looking forward to Part II, and it's quite short too, when do we begin it?
Going to look at the Jamacian links, thanks so much for putting them in here.
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 9, 2000 - 03:52 pm
I SAY, PAT, ARE YOU STILL WITH US? YOU ARE BEING TOO QUIET! Isn't that amazing, Ginny, that you've been to the Ivy! It's described in Mr. H's book as a fashionable theatrical restaurant wedged in a narrow street off Shaftesbury Avenue and apparently was NC's favorite restaurant as it is mentioned often that he went there and sat at his usual table. Sounds rather like the Algonquin crowd in NYC. Is the restaurant still in a good neighborhood - well, of course, or you wouldn't be going right?
Yes, I can understand your remark about the long paragraphs; just never thought of it that way as each of his sentences are like wandering in an antique shop looking at everything and among the bric-a-brac finding a few wonderful gems. Something to exclaim over as we have done.
Couldn't find Harriet Van Horne at all in the indexes - was she English? Not that it matters as NC knew them all on both sides of the Atlantic. Shall I tell you what the books say about your favorite author of the
Lucia and Mapp books? His name escapes me at the moment, but will return.
Yes, let's continue on through Part Two and as you read it, perhaps it might be wise to remember these sentences of NC"
Perhaps here I had better warn the reader against condemning too hastily my flippancy in describing many of these incidents. Actually it is only now, years later, that I can see those months in Paris in their proper perspective and laugh at them and at myself without bitterness. I am proud to say that even at the time my sense of humour did not entirely desert me, but I was deeply in earnest, and although I could not avoid realising quite early on that the job I had undertaken was neither so serious nor so important as I had been led to believe, I still felt that it had potentialities, and I was utterly determined to make a success of it within or without its limitations."
Quite humorous at times! Mr. H. says that these self-deprecating anecdoes may have been a cover for Coward's work for the SIS; however his aptitude for that work was doubted but his patriotism and willingness to work for his country was never questioned.
The incident picturing NC coming out of the station house was a result of the English government fining him for taking money out of the country during the time he was "on tour" in pre-war America. He had unofficialy been requested to go, but given no money or assistance, only letters of introduction to various people such as Roosevelt, etc. NC had to set up a bank account in America for the duration of his trip and spend his own money; however the end result was the government fined him only a small amount - rather like slapping him on the wrist - but the slap hurt and later this very provision and the taxes in England took their toll and he very reluctantly gave up his citizenship. This is not covered in this book and I only know because of the two others I've read.
Ginny, have you seen any of his plays at all? We must talk of his plays at one point; Mr. Hoare goes into depth about his plays - you would enjoy the book I'm sure.
I've heard about the letters of WINSTON AND CLEMENTINE - let me know how you enjoy them!
Wasn't that little tour of Jamaica beautiful? That salt water pool was built by NC as tourists would use binoculars in passing his house trying to get a glimpse of him; he often swam nude and wanted privacy.
patwest
January 9, 2000 - 04:31 pm
Now Ella, you've met me and should know that I don't say much, if I have nothing to say...
Starting on Part 2 this evening... I have read with much interest his trips and experiences, but it make me envious that I couldn't have traveled at that age, and when I can travel, I have extra responsibilties and don't have the health to do so extensively.
But I'm still with you... Carry on.
Ginny
January 9, 2000 - 04:46 pm
Yes, Ella, The Ivy is still there, the neighborhood is not the best, it's right across from Agatha Christie's longest running play "The Mousetrap," and is a favorite restaurant of many people. The latest interview with Jonathan Price was done there, apparently the theater folk still love it. It's very nice and dark and Victorian, and that woman who wrote the book on independent travel for women recommends it highly, they treat you like royalty, they really do and single women are very much at home there. Little brushes for the tablecloths, that type of thing.
I like Coward more already!hahahahah
But the Jamaica thing was very nice too. Imagine staying in his own house.
So those two people in the photo are lawyers, then?
That Harriet Van Horne is apparently some sort of radio personality in America.
Yes, please do tell about EF Benson,I would very much like to hear! Is this in Coward's own words? Benson was a friend of Oscar Wilde, too.
Coward was a great fan of EF Benson.
As am I. hahahahaha
It's amazing how many of these people knew each other.
OK, on to Part II.
Ginny
patwest
January 9, 2000 - 06:14 pm
Jan 22, 1998:
Van Horne died last week at the age of 77; a friend told the New York Times that Van Horne had been battling breast cancer. Born in Syracuse, she moved to New York to work for the World-Telegram newspaper as a radio critic in 1942. Like several of her colleagues, by the late '40s she was writing often about the relatively new medium of television for newspapers and magazines. She continued to do so for 20 years, when she became a general-interest columnist.
I never had a chance to meet Van Horne, who by the early '50s was considered one of the most important TV critics around. We spoke briefly on the phone about five years ago, when I wanted to interview her for a book I was writing. She declined to be interviewed but was gracious, pleasant and sharp-tongued. For instance, she made no bones about her continuing distaste for a famous TV impresario.
Van Horne's passing is worth noting not only because of her toughness and her writing skill, both evident in the quotation above.
It is also important because 40 and 50 years ago, Van Horne and her colleagues were wrestling with many of the same issues television involves today.
Anyone wondering about television's effect on society can refer to Van Horne in the '50s.
``Our people are becoming less literate by the minute,'' she said. ``As old habits decline, such as reading books and thinking thoughts, TV will absorb their time. By the 21st century our people doubtless will be squint-eyed, hunchbacked, and fond of the dark. . . . The chances are that the grandchild of the Television Age won't know how to read this.''
Found this searching on google.com
Ella Gibbons
January 10, 2000 - 09:45 am
PAT - delighted to hear from you and what's this about you wrote a book? We must know all about it, we're your best friends you know and you tell best friends everything! Did you get it published? Was it about personalities such as the Van Horne lady? I missed her somehow. Oh, I do wish I could go to London with the two of you and others, but it's not to be this year. Who knows about the future?
Do you believe TV is having that effect on our children or any segment of society? I used to worry about that when my children were young and was very strict about TV - none until evening and none until homework was done, etc. But mothers aren't home anymore to monitor their children so am not sure what the kids of today do, having no grandchildren! Do the daycare centers allow children to sit and watch it?
No doubt today parents are fed up with the computer games also - just a guess - but are they? I don't know what this Nintendo business is, is it for the computer?
The school where I read to children have NO COMPUTERS whatsoever, but have been told that finally this year the school got wired for them and they are coming. This is an inner city school and you know these children do not have computers at home either. And this is equality in education? Makes me furious!!!!! How behind these children will be.
You and I are in the same position I think - like you, I had no opportunity to travel when I was younger and in better health . My husband has always been self-employed and guess who did all the paper work and odds and ends of everything he didn't have time for? My husband does not care to travel very much now, but I force him to take an Elderhostel trip once a year (it takes some scolding on my part!), and this year we are driving afterward to Phoenix to visit my sister. I've flown there several times myself, but he won't fly!!!!! Loves to fish though.
In later years, my daughter and I would take off on trips and fly all over for a week or two - and loved those trips!
GINNY - those little brushes of crumbs off the tablecloth cost plenty!!! Our group of friends who go out to eat once a month always go somewhere special at Christmas and this year we went to a very expensive place where the waiters are hovering over you all the time, constantly there (annoying to me), and brushing off crumbs. For two of us the bill came to about $75 - the last time we go there!
I can't remember if NC mentions E.F.Benson or not, but as Phillip Hoare has everything indexed I can look it up easily! BTW this P.Hoare lives in London - wrote a critically accaimed biography of Stephen Tennant (who is he?).
There are several references - I'll type them in one at a time, to sweeten your pleasure - Hahaha - lst:
At a Tomorrow Club meeting....Coward arrived attired in full evening dress, only to find everyone else in day clothes. He paused long enough for the assembled intelligentsia to take in the full effect, then said, 'Now I don't want anybody to feel embarrassed.' (the Hahaha is my own, love this fellow). It was at the Tomorrow Club that Coward met some of the great names of contemporary literature, including Somerset Maugham,.......Other eminent authors included John Galsworthy, H. G. Wells, Rose Macauley, Arnold Bennett and E.F.Benson. Through Stern, Noel also met Wells's then lover, Rebecca West, another friend-to-be."
I'm going to stop posting in TIMELINE - I didn't care for the book all that much, although I did finish it, and what can one say? We all have different tastes and I shouldn't even have tried posting there.
More later - the mouse is tired!
Ginny
January 10, 2000 - 10:11 am
WHAT? Well miss Ella, two can play, honestly! You stop in TIMELINE and I'll stop here! THERE!!
Actually The Ivy is not that expensive, really, tho it's not a hamburger joint, either. Just a normal if old fashioned restaurant with no hovering. That I saw. You must have loved Italy! There's nothing like an Italian waiter, I love the slow pace!
PAT!!! HOW SPOOKY~~ I'm going to copy that out and paste it in the flyleaf of the book because if I didn't have a clue who will in the future, thanks so much. Who was the author of the piece, I note it says he wrote a book???
Never heard of her.
The Noel Coward vignette was precious, Ella, that's perfect, what a guy! What a ready wit. I expect he and Benson would have gotten along very well, tell you what? I'll go look HIM up in my Benson bios.
Found a very nice article on Coward in Time and the program from Chicago and some other stuff, stay tuned!!
Ginny
patwest
January 10, 2000 - 06:13 pm
The article about Van Horne:
Published Thursday,
January 22, 1998,
in the Akron Beacon
Journal.
Now I'm off to bed to catch up with you speed readers...
Ella Gibbons
January 11, 2000 - 07:53 am
Oh, Pat - I'm disappointed you won't tell us about your book? Here's what you said "We spoke briefly on the phone about five years ago, when I wanted to interview her for a book I was writing."
Now what was the book about? Did you ever finish it? Hasn't most people who read thought they could do better and wanted to write a book? I have! Even have started a couple of times.
We are in Paris with Noel Coward in this part of the book - Ginny, you've been there? My next port-of-call if there is one. Is Maxim's still there and what does the word "zouave" mean? Who speaks French around here?
I can't help feeling very sorry for the French people in WWII - they thought they were secure with that Maginot line and the Germans just laughed at them and went around it and it must have made them seem so silly to the world. But I've read over the years about how many of them became German collaborators and all the fuss after the war as to who did, who didn't, etc. Dreadful affair!
This dropping of leaflets on to German soil seemed absolute nonsense to me, did it to you? Vaguely, however, there is a little piece of memory floating around in my mind that we did the same thing to Japan warning them about the BIG BOMB that was coming - do either of you remember such a thing? I smiled again at NC when he wrote a memo to his superiors that "if the policy of His Majesty's Government was to bore the Germans to death I didn't think we had enough time."
On page 84-85 that whole business about the "code" is hilarious; interviewing "Lion" and make contact with "Glory" - and it is true - not a skit of Laurel and Hardy at all - it's true because it's mentioned also in the Hoare book.
NC's book of short stories
TO STEP ASIDE is described in some detail in Mr. H's book, it was very successful.
GINNY - next E.F.Benson reference:
Nearby, in the quaint medieval town of Rye, lived another writer with whom Noel had been on 'nodding terms' since 1919; E.F.Benson, author of the sensational "DODO" (a society skit on Margot Asquith), who had published his first Mapp and Lucia saga that year, 1921, tales of parochial snobbery much to Coward's taste, with their mannish women and effeminate men. (In the 1950's, when the books were out of print, Coward lent his name to a petition which included the names of Nancy Mitford, W.H.Auden, Machael MacLiammoir and Gertrude Lawrence, claiming, 'We will pay anything for Lucia books'.) Benson, later mayor of Rye, lived in Henry James's former abode, Lamb House, where he wrote in a Georgian 'garden room' and took his telephone calls in a special panelled room.
That is one of the places you will be visiting on your trip to England I think - oh, I'm jealous! And I'm just going to email my daughter and see if she can afford and wants to take a trip to France with me at Christmas time - she gets almost a month off then and is less busy than in the summer, and we used to take trips always in December because of her schedule. So there- I'll get there, I'll have paid for my teeth by then! Hahahhaha
The author goes on to write about a lesbian couple Miss Radclyffe Hall (whose scandalous Sapphic novel, THE WELL OF LONELINESS, was published in 1928 and a Lady Una Troubridge, and goes on to say "the pair maintained a spiky relationship with Benson because as campaigning lesbians they did not approve of his undeclared homosexuality, considering it a disservice to the cause. - My!
More later - I've got to find something to say about the TIMELINE book somehow!
Ginny
January 11, 2000 - 10:16 am
Ella, what a marvelous quote, thank you so much. The Toubridge stuff is interesting too, I have read of them in the Benson bios I have, but, regrettably, cannot find anything about Coward so I am especially glad to have that blurb and will put it up in both discussions.
I AM so sorry you can't go to England and !!! watch that Christmas stuff, now, you surely are coming to the NEXT Bookfest??!!?? But you know what would be totally Dickensian at Christmas? London. hahahahaaa
Paris next for you, tra la tra la!!! I can hear you now!
Benson never married and was artistic, thus spurring on heated debate lo these many years about his possible homosexuality. However, he was lucky in that his servants, including his manservant lived on for decades after his death, and, being in the best position to know, flatly declared the rumors as nonsense. Benson and his brother, in fact, had a horror of being touched by any other human being, his brother to the point that it verged on madness. None of the Benson children ever married and while Fred had male friends, and close ones, any affair he may have had must have been only in the mind. What that makes him I don't know, it's hard to fool servants who live with you day in and day out, and even dress you. Another time, like Coward, another time.
Benson was an aristocrat as well, can't you see all these bright people hanging around each other???
Yes we do hope to get to Rye and get INTO that house tho of course the Garden Room was lost during WWII.
zouave means "zouave," which shocked me to death. I had to go to an English dictionary to find "Zouave: from the French meaning Berber Tribe; 1830; A member of a French infantry unit originally composed of Algerians wearing a brilliant uniform and conducting a quick spirited drill. or... A member of a military unit adopting the dress and drill of the Zouaves."
Boy you learn something new every day, don't you? That's the joy of reading and our book clubs here.
Ginny
patwest
January 11, 2000 - 04:03 pm
Oh, Pat - I'm disappointed you won't tell us about your book? Here's what you said "We spoke briefly on the phone about five
years ago, when I wanted to interview her for a book I was writing."
Ella... That was in an article that I found searching on google.com
See my post #44 explaining where it came from and I don't know who wrote it...
Ella Gibbons
January 11, 2000 - 05:16 pm
Oh, Pat, am I dense. I went back and read that over and wondered how I arrived at the decision you had written a book? Just took it wrong I guess - however, I bet you could write one about your farm and what happened in Jimmy Carter's presidency. Never will forget your commenting about that, so hope you'll forgive me for not understanding you.
Ginny - I commented in TIMELINE so can I go on now? Hahahaa You know it's funny that I can enjoy and actually laugh at NC's antics in real life, but I probably wouldn't think his stories are funny - just as I didn't think Lucia and Mapp were funny - AND YOU DID AND DO! Can't understand the difference except one is taken from real life (albeit exaggerated for humor's sake) and the other is fiction (albeit taken from real life). Most of the characters in Coward's stories and plays are based on real people. He admits that somewhere in this book but Mr. H. also confirms it.
I'll give you more references to EH Benson later, but I thought tonight I'd type in Graham Payn's letter to NC twenty years after his death - I find it poignant:
Dear Noel: If I say that there hasn't been a day these last twenty years when I haven't missed you, that's going to come out sounding sentimental. but what I've missed most is the fun and the laughter. Where we were - you, me and Coley - we laughed. There was an amusing side to just about everything, even when the laugh was on one of us. When something outrageous has just happened or someone's just uttered someething particularly asinine, I often find myself turning to you to hear your clipped verdict. Then I remember I'll have to imagine what it might have have been.
People think we lived a grand life, which, of course, we did, but not in the way they mean. To this day people say: 'Oh, it must have been such a privilege to have met all those amazing people and seen all those wonderful places.' It was, and if I didn't say so at the time, which I didn't, well, Thanks, chum!
At the time, it didn't seem like the stuff books were made of: gossip columns or stories, perhaps, but not real books! We just strung one scene on to the next. Somehow, it added up to a life.
It's hard for many people to believe what a simple life we led. Some of them don't want to believe there was a domestic side to 'Noel Coward." Well, that's their problem. For me the best best of times were those quiet moments at weekends, after the show, when the guests had gone, when we'd all sit down, put our feet up and set the world to rights.
That's just half of the letter - don't want to bore you and Pat - if you want the second half say so and I'll be happy to type it in.
Oh, about Benson and his brother's fear of "being touched." There's a scientific name for that neurosis - we must ask Robby! Howard Hughes was the same in later life - went to ridiculous lengths to avoid being touched, afraid of germs.
Marilyne
January 12, 2000 - 10:19 am
Has anyone else seen the three NC "video's", that are shown frequently on the Classic Arts Showcase? CAS, airs on your local community access channel.
It consists of single selections from all forms of the classic arts, done in the MTV foremat. (For instance - right now it is showing Van Cliburn, in l965, playing a
piano solo.) Shows London Symphony, various ballet companies, aria's from operas, Broadway shows, plus scenes from classic films.
I'm trying to remember the two NC pieces of music that were shown, but since it was the middle of the night, I can't remember that clearly! One was a black and white clip of a woman singing - I think it was - "I'll See You Again, Whenever Spring Breaks Through Again"? The movie scene is a very intriguing one from "Brief Encounter". It takes place in the waiting room of a railroad station. I thought I had seen every movie made during and after WWII, but somehow missed this one. It looks great, and I plan to rent it ASAP. If you havn't seen CAS, take a look at the web page, and it will explain a bit better, what it's all about.
Classic Arts ShowcaseGinny
January 12, 2000 - 12:42 pm
HEY, Marilyn!~! Thanks so much , no I personally hadn't heard of that at all, appreciate it. I love those old songs, and I can hear that one right now in my head, some of those old songs were fabulous.
Thank you so much for that! Ella will be thrilled!
Stick around, if you like?
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 12, 2000 - 05:51 pm
Welcome Marilyn! What fun to have you here - I think you are the only one of us who has seen anything that Noel Coward produced.
I looked at the list of CAS showcases and there is none for Columbus, Ohio but you did say these are shown occasionally on PBS - I'll watch for them! What fun to see something NC wrote and produced.
I'll look in my video store, but I doubt if I'll find anything - now in England I'm sure! They were celebrating his 100th birthday last year with new productions of his plays.
The song "I'll see You Again" (love the melody) was written for his play BITTER SWEET and it came to him on a taxi ride in NYC of all things. He claimed that melodies and lyrics just popped into his head and also, when writing plays, he had them all planned mentally before he wrote them down. In this play (Bitter Sweet) there's an autobiographical song entitled "If Love were all" and the last four lines are:
But I believe that since my life began
The most I've had is just
A talent to amuse.
Heigho, if love were all!
This phrase "A Talent to Amuse" was inscribed on the stone to his memory in Westminister Abby.
The play BRIEF ENCOUNTER dealt with a near-scandalous theme for its time; reflecting problems faced by couples often separated for long periods during wartime, including love outside the confines of marriage.
Do stay with us MARILYN! If you see it, please give us a review of it. I know Trevor Howard played in it, and I'm reading that Joyce Carey is Myrtle - the manager of the station buffet - and the film won an award at Cannes in 1946, as well as an Oscar nomination. My book says "fifty years later, it is seldom off cinema or television screens.
Ella Gibbons
January 12, 2000 - 05:53 pm
Pat, Ginny, Marilyn:
Shall I post the rest of the letter Graham Payn wrote? Up to you!
Or shall we get on with the book?
Ella Gibbons
January 13, 2000 - 07:34 am
Did you know that Prince Edward of Great Britain unveiled a statute to Noel Coward in the U.S.A. last year. Have a look:
Great Britain and the U.S. pay tribute to Noel Coward Have you finished with that short chaper of NC's sojourn in Paris? Shall we go on with Chapter Three?
NC summed up his radio business in Paris this way: "Perhaps I made a cracking fool of myself. Perhaps my dramatic sense overegged the pudding and inflated it out of all proportion to its actual significance."
Wish I had the wit to say things like "overegged the pudding" - love it!
Ginny
January 13, 2000 - 04:37 pm
Ella, sorry, yes, please put the rest of the letter and thank you for that wonderful article. Does your book show the tunes Coward wrote?
If so, did he write "I Danced With the Man Who Danced With the Girl Who Danced With The Prince of Wales?"
I'd like to know who wrote that one.
Please go back into TIMELINE and see if I have found your provincials temporals quote!?!!
Back later,
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 13, 2000 - 05:24 pm
O.K. will do and you did find the "temporal provincial" quote in TIMELINE - it was brief!! But - But - if I'm posting there, you must continue reading and commenting on our dear NC's book.
PAT AND MARILYN - ARE YOU HERE - RAISE YOUR HAND HIGH SO I CAN SEE YOU PLEASE! Please give us your thoughts! We so enjoy them!
(continuing with Graham Payn's tribute to NC 20 years after his death)
"We were family. Not your conventional Victorian family, granted, but in many respects something better, more alive. Because we CHOSE each other. We got together and stayed together because we wanted to be together, and we reaffirmed that choice every day. How many families can say that? It gave us the inner strength to, as you would say, "rise above it." Each of us was vulnerable in our own way, I suppose. We'd had to pick ourselves up early in life and make what we could of the hand we'd been dealt. We sensed that quality in each other; it brought us together and kept us together in a cocoon that kept the world out. After all, who could really hurt us?
And, of course, it helped to be immortal. There was always another place, another face, another song, or show or painting. Every day was a new opening night for the rest of our lives.
Then, somewhere near the end of eternity, you decided it was time to go. Your timing had always been impeccable until that exit. It was too soon. And if you thought the party was over, were you wrong about that? Not only is it still going on, but you're the GUEST OF HONOR! Not just here, but all around the world. Not just for the generation you left behind, but for people who weren't even around when we were putting it all together. You're still the topic of conversation. They want to know all about you, what kind of man you really were.
So, if you don't mind, I think the time has come to tell them, at least the way it seemed to me.
I know what you'd say: "If the words are good enough, they'll carry you!" You see, I did listen sometimes! My love, as always."
Do you think he perhaps is a little defensive in that first paragraph?
Ginny, I'll look the song up.
Ella Gibbons
January 13, 2000 - 06:29 pm
No, Ginny, couldn't find that song in the indexes anywhere. Don't suppose you'd care for one entitled "Teach me to dance like Grandma" - Ha! Will type in another EF Benson for you soon.
Ginny
January 14, 2000 - 03:32 am
I think the whole thing is defensive and don't understand why he felt the need to write it at all, let's be hard here for a moment, who is he? Everybody knows who Coward was, who is this man? By writing the letter he attempts to tell us who HE was, doesn't cast any light on Coward and the one person who might have appreciated it was apparently long dead.
A very puzzling tho moving letter and I'm glad you shared it.
Back with my own Bensoniana in a mo.
Ginny
patwest
January 14, 2000 - 04:04 am
I'm confused on the letter, too... I'll go back and read the first part again...
Ella Gibbons
January 14, 2000 - 06:10 pm
Oh, I am sorry - I got off the subject of Coward there and onto Graham Payn who was an actor and appeared in a number of NC's plays: they became very good friends around 1944(if you want to call it that) and were inseparable until the death of Coward. Payn wrote this book "My Life with Noel Coward" in 1994 - he's not a very good writer but tells amusing stories of their lives together and that letter I quoted is on the first page of the book.
There are numerous books about NC and I just chose two of them - the Hoare biography and Payn's book and each write of incidents differently, of course - Hoare's from a factual viewpoint, Payn is sentimental.
Payn says that NC was despondent about leaving Paris to the mercies of the Nazis and was afraid that he would never again see the Paris he had known and loved before the war; it was because of this that Jerome Kern dedicated "The Last Time I Saw Paris" to Coward who later recorded it. - love that song!
Before we leave Paris, I might add that NC did not work all the time there in his office; close neighbors were Chanel and Schiaparelli and there was a group that met at the Windsors' dinners at the boulevard Suchet, so they were all having good times right before the Germans came.
Can any of you remember where the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were during the war? Were they sent to Bermuda or one of the Caribbean islands during this time? As I remember it, they were never allowed back in England, am I correct?
How about this quote:
If anyone had told me at that time that I was high up on the Nazi black list, I should have laughed and told him not to talk nonsense. In this, however, I should have been wrong, for, as it ultimately transpired, I was. In 1945, when the Nazi list of people marked down for immediate liquidation was unearthed and published in the Press, there was my name. I remember that Rebecca West, who was one of the many who shared this honour with me, sent me a telegram which read: - 'My dear - the people we should have been seen dead with.'"
Has anyone read anything by Rebecca West?
And onto Chapter Three -
Where we read about NC back in America. The British Ministry of Information decided that prominent British authors, such as H.G.Wells, Somerset Maugham and Coward be used to explain the British position to the Americans: "Carefully selected Britishers of outstanding ability and reputation could form a British mission under the leadership of the British Ambassador."
So what did he accomplish if anything here?
Marilyne
January 15, 2000 - 09:46 am
Ella, Ginny and Pat - Thanks for all the warm welcomes. I called my local library, only to find that the Coward autobiography, is not available. However, I still have a few sources to check, so will probably find it sooner or later. In the meantime, I enjoy checking in here a couple of times a day, and just "lurking"! I've been listening to/watching, CAS, for the past couple of days, but have not seen the three video's again, that I told you about. I'm still planning to rent "Brief Encounter".
Ella Gibbons
January 16, 2000 - 12:03 pm
Hello All of you! Marilyn, you may have difficulty finding it as it is out of print - you might call used book stores - I think Pat found a copy on line at one of the used book sites. So happy you are joining us!
If you cannot find a copy of it - get a copy of any of the other books written about NC - you'll enjoy it.
Has anyone read Chapter Three yet? I'll review it later today. Stay tuned!
Ella Gibbons
January 16, 2000 - 12:28 pm
Perhaps we should, in fairness to NC, list a few of his more popular plays. I'm quoting here from a site on the web (there are so many), one site I found was called www.culturevulture.net - had all sorts of interesting places to visit.
"With The Vortex in 1924, Coward began to gain critical acclaim and personal celebrity. In 1925, four additional Coward productions were running simultaneously in London: Hay Fever, Fallen Angels, Easy Virtue, and On with the Dance. Coward ended the decade with his most popular musical play, Bitter Sweet (1929); and began the next with his most popular comedy of manners, Private Lives (1930), in which he starred with Gertrude Lawrence and Laurence Olivier. For the next decade he enjoyed enormous popularity, with such hits as Cavalcade 1931), Design for Living (1933), Tonight at 8:30 (1935-6), and Blithe Spirit (1941) which ran for almost 2000 performances.
Coward travelled extensively during World War II, entertaining Allied troops, opening new plays such as Present Laughter and This Happy Breed (both in 1943), and directing the patriotic film In Which We Serve."
Ginny
January 16, 2000 - 01:10 pm
I've found a good bit on Radclyffe Hall and Una Toubridge but am not sure it's worth typing in here. Apparently Benson thought they were funny, called them the "girls," wrote ditties about them and generally disapproved of their vulgar mannerisms. He put their affectations into his books but he did that with a lot of people. They were offended by his "buttoned up" attitude and he was offended by their hang it all out attitude, so it was not a mutual admiration society. They spread rumors that he was stingy, generally did not get along.
I found Coward in this Part III to be a very likeable person. I love his "take" on things, his way of expression. His humor seems to help him deal with situations which are not the best, and to keep up a shield of repartee against things.
Some things I found interesting were: the descriptions of Paris right before the war, the strange attitude when Holland was invaded, I couldn't get that straight, why the relief?
The business about the code phone call and "Diplomat" was hilarious, just laugh out loud hilarlious. Reminds you of that Drive Thru commercial where somebody's trying to order a burger.
I loved this sentence, "I fear that, as ususal, my articulateness overrode my discretion." As a person who suffers from that malady myself, I can certainly sympathize. Those are in Part II, sorry.
I was interested in his description of Buckinghamshire and comparing it to Connecticut. You know William Penn named Bucks County in Pennsylvania for Buckinghamshire because he said it reminded him of it, and it does. I liked this statement, "I always feel that in America the land itself, however smooth and well cultivated it may be owtwardly, has no inward acquiescence; it is as though it were not yet quite broken in, still half-tamed and a bit skittish; as though it still had hopes of winning in the long run." I like that. He does have a way with words.
Am goign to try to get a photo of Graham Payne in here and the tune to Mad Dogs and Englishmen which Coward got so irritated at having to play over and over. I'm not sure I've heard it. Interesting his first impression of Mrs. Roosevelt, too, not the first impression many people had, due to her voice.
And the comparison of the difference in sounds of the English and American trains, just magic, the man could really write.
I was also interested in how his sketchy notes in his diary recalled so much for him, I think that's why a lot of writers keep them.
Very interesting so far~!
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 16, 2000 - 02:31 pm
Ginny - marvelous observations! As usual I should say.
Aren't we all guilty of "articulateness overriding discretion" at times?
I didn't know that little unknown fact about Bucks County, PA being named after Buckhamshire, England. That's such a lovely area - spent a week of Elderhostel there one time and could have spent another week just loitering in the area, but had to travel home. We did visit Pearl Buck's home - I think Michener's home or Art Gallery is there also - Pearl and Michener were friends.
The "relief attitude" when Holland was invaded was I believe due to the fact that the imminent war they knew was coming "had arrived at last." Somewhere in the book NC describes this feeling far better than I could ever do.
I am fascinated by the personalities in this book, e.g., Neysa McMein (who NC describes on pg.126) - doesn't she sound wonderful? - "The quality of her own truth was so wise and sure and so rich in humour that it gave grace to everyone who knew her, which was a prodigal output, for her friendship embraced all sorts and kinds and classes of people."
In looking her up in the Hoare book he has this to say about her:
Beautiful, untidy, casual, Marjorie Moran McMein changed her name on the advice of a fortune teller. A portrait painter, she was a key figure in the Algonquin Round Table set, endowed with a facile artistic talent, a quick wit, and a brilliant personality. Alexander Woollcott had wanted to marry her…….but before Wollcott could press his suit, McMein had married….a handsome mining engineer.
These women are really different, they seem to have a penchant for changing their names. - NC has mentioned attending parties at Clemence Dane's house and I quote from the Hoare biography:
Coward had known Dane (she had taken her name from a London church, her real name was Winifred Ashton) since the Twenties and admired her gusto and naivety in equal measure. She was striking in appearance, tall, with an aquiline profile and large in girth, and had trained as an artist and as an actor. Her successful novels often dealtt with theatrical subjects…….and her first play, A BILL OF DIVORCEMENT, was an immense successs…..on Broadway it helped establish Katharine cornell as a star…..and later Katharine Hepburn played her first film role.....
Dane lived above a greengrocer's shop at 26 Tavistock Street, Covent Garden……….One climbed up a rickety staircase and there was Winifred, surrounded by her paintings, sculptures, a piano and goodness knows how many books, where she would give many after-the-theatre parties….Coward relished tales of her eccentricities, which were legion: when fire broke out in one of the warehouses opposite No. 26, Dane dashed out in her dressing gown, her hair flying, to persuade the firemen to keep the fire going long enough for her to get it down in paint on canvas."
Hahahaaaa - aren't they rich in character! Do you suppose if we changed out names, we could change......No, no, it wouldn't do.
Ella Gibbons
January 17, 2000 - 07:20 am
DO YOU LIKE THE NOEL COWARD CARTOON?
Ginny, if you click on "Cowards Music" above, you can hear a sample of two of his songs, one of which is Mad Dogs and Englishmen. Not exactly modern music - although I'm not sure what is "modern" today.
Do you understand why the young generation likes rap? I can't even understand the words to it - can you?
Ginny
January 17, 2000 - 02:46 pm
Oh love the cartoon, Ella, well done!! And the music, thank you so much. I can see why people would want to hear the Mad Dogs and Englishmen more than once, there's a lot to try to take in, lots of clever bon mots to try to absorb. I did also listen to I've Been to a Marvelous Party, that one doesn't have too much tune, does it?
Where did you find these? What site? Is that Coward himself? The voice is certainly British (I've Beeeen to a Mahvelous Potty!) hahahahaha.
Rap and hip hop are so misogynistic that I can't stand to listen to them, pretty brutish, which if you think about it, is in complete opposition to what Coward was writing about.
Force and energy are one thing, violence and hate are another. I wonder how far we have really progressed. I remember one song by Axel Rose of Guns N Roses which I used to have to hear more than I liked, "I used to love her but I had to kill her," Etc. Please.
Big difference, I'll take Coward.
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 18, 2000 - 07:00 am
Hallooooo! Anybody listening here? Marilyn and Pat - are you still with us? Shall we carry on?
Marilyn, did you find a book - any book - about Noel Coward? There are many about him - if I hadn't read 2 about him and his own, I might be tempted to get the one written by Leslie Cole - his life long friend - if I remember correctly, it is called
Remembered Laugher. Something like that. Wouldn't it be nice to be remembered for all the laughter, the good times you had together. Such a great tribute to Coward!
Ginny, the music on the web above is a web page - you can see a name below and email the person. Must be someone very interested in his music - collects old records???? And I'm sure that's his voice, as you said, that Maaa-va-lous voice - I think the closest we've come in America to anything like him was George Burns, who sang very fast with long pauses at times.
The description of Eleanor Roosevelt in NC's book has been stated by others many times; so I doubt if we actually can tell what she was like on the TV screen or even in books - everyone who met her said she had a charm, a presence, indescribable! She had something going for her to attract such a handsome remarkable young man as FDR.
In speaking of his love for England (which he never lost even though in later years he gave up his citizenship), NC gives a remarkable description of the British:
I did love England and all it stood for. I loved its follies and apathies and curious streaks of genius; I loved standing attention for 'God Save the King'; I loved British courage, British humour, and British understatement; I loved the justice, efficiency, and even the dullness of British colonial administration. I loved the people, the ordinary, the extraordinary, the good, the bad, the indifferent, and what is more I belonged to that exasperating, weather-sodden little island with its uninspired cooking, its muddled thinking, and its unregenerate pride, and it belonged to me whether it liked it or not.
And in his meeting with the President, Roosevelt spoke of his admiration for the British. The evacuation of Dunkirk had moved him profoundly (as it did the world, what a feat!) and Roosevelt spoke of it at length:
on the epic quality of the whole operation; this quality lay deep in the British character and was compounded of diverse ingredients; stubborness, gallantry, refusal to envisage the possibility of failure, lack of imagination, vision, and an inherent genius for improvisation. None but the British could transform a full-scale military defeat into a shining spiritual victory
I'm sorry Betty Henderson is not with us, but she had to go back to Canada for surgery; however, she will be reading it all when she returns to Florida. I think she will like this admiration of England.
What is your opinion of Eleanor Roosevelt? Better than some of our more recent First Ladies? Which was your favorite?
Ginny and Pat - I know both of you are anticipating a trip to England this spring - lucky you! - does England have many monuments to WWII? What are they? That has been a concern in the
Good Wardiscussion. I wonder if there is any monument to the evacuation of Dunkirk - that was a truly a monumental effort of the British!
Ginny
January 18, 2000 - 09:02 am
I don't know, Ella, why not go into the England folder and ask Freddie and GEC? They would probably know. I'm going to take a snap of Coward's stone in Westminster Abbey for you, do you have any more directions as to WHERE in the Abey it is? That is a huge place, we will need some pretty precice directions, Pat, maybe we can get a map of authors listed.
Here is a humongous file, so I really don't want to leave it on long, taken from the Playbill of After the Ball which we saw in Chicago by Graham Payn, and a photo of him. He was extraordinarily handsome. I wonder if he wrote this FOR this Playbill and is still alive or not? I apologize if his dates have already been given. Anyway I thought it was interesting:
Graham Payn on Noel Coward and After the Ball George Burns, yes, this does remind one of George Burns, that fast patter to a little bit of music, yes.
Yes, I hope Betty is OK too!!
{{{{{{HUGS AND GET WELL SOON, BETTY!!!}}}}}
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 18, 2000 - 12:22 pm
What fun, Ginny! Thanks for that, yes, he was/is handsome - would it be all right if I scanned in a picture of he and Noel together - it's in the front of the book that Payn wrote in 1994.
Are you saying that Graham Payn was in the play we saw in Chicago? Or was that just a note that he wrote in commemmoration of the play?
I'll be back when I look up when Payn was born - I know it was in South Africa, and I'll also look up where the stone is in Westminister Abbey. Must ask in the England discussion about the WWII monuments - perhaps the veterans in our Good Wardiscussion would be interested also.
Ella Gibbons
January 18, 2000 - 01:21 pm
MARILYN! If you do want to get a book about Noel Coward, I made a dreadful mistake and I must correct it - The book
REMEMBERED LAUGHTER was written by COLE LESLEY. I typed his name incorrectly when I first mentioned it. He was always called Cole by NC and friends; hired as a cook-valet, later became just everything to NC - even collaborated on a couple of plays. Payne describes Cole as "the keeper of the keys, the man who made everything work without apparent effort."
Cole found NC's diaries which I believe he either quoted in the book or published separately, I'm not sure, but they were not of the quality that people expected. I think these are from his diaries:
Someday, I suspect, when Jesus has definitely got me for a sunbeam, my works may be adequately assessed.
When that which is loosely termed my soul
Goes whizzing off through the infinite
By means of some vague remote control
I'd like to think I was missed a bit.
Ginny - no, you mustn't take your valuable time in London with looking for anything for me. NC is just an interesting subject, don't you think? So talented. There is a plaque in Westminister Abbey in the Poet's Corner, but there is also a plaque in the Actors Church in Covent Garden.
Graham Payn was born in 1918 but was still living when Mr. Hoare wrote this biography in 1995 so, of course, he could still be living. He and Cole inherited all NC's estate and with their death, all royalties, etc. are to go to an Actors Charitable Trust (presumably in England?). Hoare says that Payn attends every opening of Coward's plays - gosh, the man surely travels - both continents!
Ginny
January 18, 2000 - 03:07 pm
He was apparently very devoted, then. No I think this was just something....well I don't know, really, I don't think he was IN the Chicago play, but am not sure why they included that, tho, will read further.
I'll let you know what I find out there.
He could well be alive, wouldn't it be something if he WERE there?
Ginny
patwest
January 19, 2000 - 04:18 am
No Internet and I'm almost caught up with my reading... NC surely lived a fairy tale life... when he wrote about his war experiences in Paris, I never seemed to understand or grasp anything he actually accomplished.
Ella Gibbons
January 19, 2000 - 01:04 pm
THERE YOU ARE PAT! Everyone is happy (all over SN) that you are back online - as I'm sure you are also. Isn't it awful how much we miss computers when they don't work - is that bad or good - our dependency?
Coward didn't accomplish much in Paris - that whole business was confusing. He did manage to shut down a commercial radio station which could have provided enemy bombers with cross-bearings (which convinced him that men of prestige and responsibility can behave in a reprehensible way when their pockets are involved!
Incidentally I do want to call you attention to the fact that NC dedicated this autobio to Clemence Dane (note previous post about her-such a character). He obviously was very fond of her.
Something else that has struck me in reading his book is his kindness to people when he believes they are deserving and his apparent love of people for their personalities, rather than APPEARANCE or AGE! I do like that about the man.
In Chapter 4 he's off to America again and mentions "Little Bill" who offers him a job that will be of real effort to the war. "Little Bill" was Sir William Stephenson, head of British Security Coordination in the States; he was already employing Alexander and Zoltan Korda, Ian Fleming and Leslie Howard as his "boys." Later, of course, Ian Fleming would put their exploits in the James Bond stories. Interesting, isn't it?
Hoare says:
Coward's account of the events is clouded (in this book), both by the secrecy which still bound him in later years and by the haphazard nature of his recollections, only at the end of his life did he discuss the events openly.
I won't go into detail here but suffice it to say he did contribute to Intelligence on his many travels, both in this chapter and later.
Ginny
January 19, 2000 - 05:11 pm
Ella, I just saw this in the new (January 17) issue of The New Yorker, and thought you all might be interested.
On January 15th at 5pm in the Great Hall, Cooper Union, Conductor John McGlinn "discusses Noel Coward's 1954 musical 'After the Ball,' which McGlinn performed last year in London and Chicago."
It's so funny when you go somewhere and see something how often it seems to keep popping up!
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 20, 2000 - 07:55 am
Hi Ginny - that was interesting - where is Cooper Union? As I remember "After the Ball" was not too successful at first, and NC had to do a few revisions. I'll look it up today.
Gosh, we have 8" of snow out today, schools all over have closed - but over East sounds much worse.
Pat - over there in Indiana. Are your schools closed also?
patwest
January 20, 2000 - 08:03 am
This Pat is in Illinois... next to the Mississippi River... 200 miles west of Chicago. 2° here and 6" of snow... but our schools are open and I'm taking a 'personal' day off (without pay) from my volunteer
job.
Ella Gibbons
January 20, 2000 - 09:23 am
Boy, did I get your address wrong! Why did I ever think you lived in Indiana?
Hopefully Hendie may look in - I didn't know she had her computer with her; I'll type in what Hoare says about Camp X on the north shore of Lake Ontario, 300 miles northwest of Manhattan. This was a spy camp where agents were trained, sabotage devices tested and espionage techniques taught.
Hendie - tell us again what and how you found this camp; as Pat and Ginny probably didn't read the discussion in the GOOD WAR.
The book doesn't say how long NC stayed there, but NC thought:
my major weapon was ...'celebrity value.' My disguise was my own reputation as a bit of an idiot...whole lot of tiny things are the stuff of intelligence. I travelled wherever I could - Asia and what was left of Europe. And I ridiculed the whole business of intelligence, because that's the best way to get on with it - ridicule and belittle ourselves and say what an awful lot of duffers we are, can't get the facts straight, all that sort of thing.
NC despaired of the Americans understanding his approach to the business, but he "learned a lot from their technical people, became an expert, could have made a career in espionage, except that my life's been full enough of intrigue as it is is."
However, this worked against him in the British Press who did not approve of NC being an amateur ambassador of any sort and his position in American remained difficult. He was constantly being criticized here and abroad for his breezy attitudes and his mingling with celebrities; often his uselessness moved him to tears and when it was suggested he go to Australia to entertain the troops, he seized upon the idea.
patwest
January 20, 2000 - 09:38 am
Camp X.. I remember reading about it... mainly because Hendie said that Ian Fleming trained there... And I'm a James Bond fan... Her first post is #1301 in the Good War, back in September.
Hendie "---Twentieth Century: The "Good" War" 9/16/99 11:31amElla Gibbons
January 20, 2000 - 03:25 pm
Thanks for that Pat! Hendie brought a book about this camp to Chicago but I never got to see it, not enough time for a lot of things there.
Hope Hendie will look in! Love for her to tell us about the monuments in England to WWII - particularly Dunkirk - if she knows of them. I think she said she moved to Canada after the war, so perhaps she doesn't.
Never liked Sean Connolly (sp?) in the James Bond movies though! Something about him that grates on my nerves - way of talking - something, can't pinpoint it.
Betty H
January 21, 2000 - 12:47 pm
Yes, I was without a computer for a while when I first got back from Fla...got so fed up with chasing my mail on Friends' that I decided "Aw hec, I'll leave my existing one down there permanently and splurge on another". So far this has been a very expensive year! I'm so glad to find you! Thanks Ella for the site link. Now I must catch up with what's been going on here and get back into the good stuff.
TTYL Betty
Ella Gibbons
January 21, 2000 - 02:18 pm
Gee, Hendie! You're wonderful! You're not going to let any grass grow under your feet - Ooops - wrong cliche for this time of the year - more like snow melting or ice cracking - if it's as bad in Canada as it is in Ohio - Whew, its cold! Going down to 4 below tonight!
Just read all you want to of the discussion or just pitch right in and tell us about Camp X - about WWII monuments - anything about WWII. Were you able to get a copy of Noel Coward's book - FUTURE INDEFINITE?
If not, that's O.K., we'll all just keep right on discussing our very talented man!
Will be back later for more!
Ginny
January 21, 2000 - 03:43 pm
Where are we now in our reading, Ella, which section should we now be reading?? Schedule seems to have disappeared from the header?
I agree with you about Sean Connery, can't remember where I read your statement, but I agree.
Ginny
patwest
January 21, 2000 - 06:34 pm
I'm not familiar with Sean Connery... I have never seen any James Bond movies... I just read the books..
Ella Gibbons
January 22, 2000 - 07:56 am
Well, after reading about "long headings" in the DL discussion, I took out the chapters - MISTAKE?? Oh, well, we are in PART FOUR - why NC calls them PARTS instead of chapters is a mystery. It's a long chapter all about his entertainment of the troops and back in England where the war is being fought and his home and studio gets hit by bombs.
I had to look up the word "recherche" restaurant (pg. 170) - meaning exquisite or uncommon, so on our next Bookfest we must find a recherche restaurant and casually talk about it to impress those that don't know - Hahahaaaa.
To say the least about NC entertaining the troops, HE IS, undoubtedly, NOT the kind of entertainer that guys would particularly be fond of seeing, is he? However, they seemed to enjoy him and NC gets reflective about it all when he says:
I tried.....to put myself in the place of an ordinary Australian Digger, a true product of the wide-open spaces, suddenly asked to sit on a hard bench in a stuffy Nissen hut and enjoy the restrained antics of a 40-year-old Englishman with no voice and a red carnation in his buttonhole....He obviously would have preferred a really fine singer or a saucy blonde in a decollete' evening gown, or an experienced low comedian who could convulse him with slapstick and funny stories. I was always aware of this every time I stepped on the stage, always conscious of my inability to give my audience what it really wanted."
He should have done what Bob Hope did - take the saucy blondes with him and parade them around a bit. However, the troops seemed to enjoy him very much.
HE SHOULD HAVE TAKEN HENDIE!!! As pretty as she is now - she must have been beautiful at the tender age of 45 or so years ago.
Anyone know why the Australians are called "Diggers?"
Hendie - do you know that Ginny and Pat are off for England this spring? Now, what should they NOT MISS and what should they definitely see?
Coward stays at the Savoy Hotel after his house was bombed and is intrigued by staying there and seeing London from the vantage point of a tourist. He says "I felt a sudden urge to visit the Tower and Abbey and Madame Tussard's and go to the zoo."
Now tell me all the history of the Tower - who was imprisoned there? - and everything else you know - all of you! I have heard bits and pieces, forget those even!
Later, of course, you will note that all the spy stuff was for naught. It was cancelled - many reasons too numerous to go into - but as NC says "If Little Bill's job had materialised I should never have written BLITHE SPIRT, IN WHICH WE SERVE OR LONDON PRIDE."
Ella Gibbons
January 22, 2000 - 08:04 am
Have enjoyed Philip Hoare's biography of NC so reserved another of his biographies at the Library - OSCAR WILDE'S LAST STAND. Should be interesting!
Ella Gibbons
January 22, 2000 - 01:12 pm
Don't say a word about the Tower of London - just go here for a wonderful tour - beautiful pictures, music on some pages, history lessons - WOW!
Tower of LondonBetty H
January 22, 2000 - 07:30 pm
Two weeks ago, our TV History Channel ran a week long series on The Secret War of Spies, which included data and film clips of Camp X. I do not know if programs shown on this channel in Canada are the same as those shown in the United Stated. This is the first time I've seen anything about the Canadian Secret Spy School, Camp X, on TV. Much of the info appeared to be from the recently published book, Inside Camp X by Lynn-Philip Hodgson, which I took to the Chicago gathering in November. Neither the book nor the TV programs mentioned Noel Cowards escapades - Ian Fleming was mentioned though.
How did I first hear about Camp X? It was right here on my doorstep, in the Oshawa area,east of Toronto. During WW11, Oshawa was a small town surrounded by farms and woodland, and the existance of Camp X was one of the best kept secrets. Now, the area is mostly all built up with housing developments and industrial sites, with only a small plot of land called "Intrepid Park", and a pathetically small monument in rememberance to its importance to the training of so many brave souls who passed through it to become saboteurs, spies and underground workers.
From my reading of A man Called Intrepid, which was about Sir William Stephenson, head of British Security Coordination in New York, and who founded Camp X in 1940; I understood that Noel Coward was recruited by him, and Churchill to gather any information, useful to the allies, during the course of his professional travels as he mingled with various VIPs, and report it back to the New York Office. I didn't know that this project never materialized. It is doubtful that he had any experience with the Commando-like training afforded those who went through Camp X for a more violent destiny!
Well, thank you Ella for your kind comments! I'll bet you were more of a smasher than I! So, Pat and Ginny off to England in Spring eh? What can I say - I haven't been back for 7 years and have to admit I have no desire to, the reason being that I hate what has happened to my dear old country. I prefer to remember it as it was when I was young - before hippies, strange looking nasties with puce spiked hair and black lipstick etc. etc. But then there are the hisorical sites, and the pubs but even they have changed. Oh, well!
Ella Gibbons
January 22, 2000 - 07:54 pm
Oh, thank you for that Hendie!
But I still want to know about memorials to WWII - particularly Dunkirk which was such a remarkable effort! Certainly England has done something to memorialize the occasion.
You are right - Coward was recruited by Stephenson and did report anything he found during his travels; however, when he returned to England in 1941 - after the tours of Australia and New Zealand, - he found to his great disappointment that the whole operation was called off. Stephenson had received a telegram sent in code from London - I quote the telegram from the Hoare book:
April 2nd for Noel Coward (A) Regrettable publicity given to your visit London by entire British press which would increase on your arrival unfortunately makes entire scheme impracticable (
complete secrecy is foundation of our work and it would now be impossible for any of our people to contact you in England without incurring publicity (c) we are all very disappointed as we had looked forward to working with you but there are no further steps to be taken.
Coward wrote in his diary "God, what enemies I must have!"
The tabloid press reported his American and Australlian travels as though they had been holidays; touring the tropics and singing a few songs sounded like an easy life to blitzed Londoners; and they wondered whose money he was spending, what was he doing gadding about, etc.
Thus ended his saga of the spy business.
Who wrote the book about "You can't go home again" - or something like that? Another one - "Looking Back in Anger" - is that a book? Am I making them both up?
Understand that attitude, Hendie, nothing stays the same!
GingerWright
January 22, 2000 - 08:58 pm
Hendie, I will never will forget our time in the pub in Chicago. I am wishing you well and praying for all the best on your operation my friend and will be awaiting your good posts. It has been my pleasure to meet you in Chicago and in the Good Wars, etc. on the senior net. Luvya.
ginger
Ella Gibbons
January 24, 2000 - 06:49 am
Shall we finish up the book this week - on to the last chapter?
What did you think of NC's analysis of T.E.Lawrence?
Are any of you familiar with Margaret Rutherford who first played in Blithe Spirit - but was equally famous for her role as Miss Marple in the Agatha Christie films. Hoare tells quite a story about her which I can relate if you are interested.
I thought the description of "montage" in films was enlightening; often see varying methods of this in books.
Ginny
January 24, 2000 - 07:58 am
I would love to hear the Margaret Rutherford story, Ella, do relate it. I know that Agatha Christie herself did not think Rutherford was the right person to play Miss Marple, she much preferred Joan Hickson and told her so, and Hickson kept the letter. Of course Hickson's Marple cannot be equalled, I'm sorry she passed away, even in her late 80s she refused to do any more Marples because she did not want to be typecast!
Yes, let's finish it up, I'll read ahead and be back in a jif.
SO glad to see you, Hendie! Am glad you're not in any pain!
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 24, 2000 - 05:11 pm
Our Library has a goodly numer of Agatha Christie's old films; now I'll pay attention to who played Miss Marple - never would have thought of doing that before.
Margaret Rutherford was a character actress of distinction before appearing in Blithe Spirit - she had an extraordinary childhood. Her father had murdered her grandfather, and was sent to Broadmoor (a prison, I assume); on his release the family went to India, where her mother hanged herself. Margaret was brought up by her aunt and, when she discovered her family history, became mentally unstable.
Her condition improved when she was acting, but a doctor was often waiting in the wings with a sedative injection so she could continue. Around this time, Stephen Tennant proposed to Rutherford, but refused her admittance when she arrived for the weekend at his home, Wilsford Manor. She was later found by the butler in the coal cellar, eating coal!
Which again proves that truth is stranger than fiction.
Interesting, Ginny, that A. Christie did not like her - here's a picture of Rutherford as Miss Marple:
Margaret RutherfordBetty H
January 24, 2000 - 07:32 pm
This is so interesting. I had no idea Margaret Rutherford had such problems; she was a character.
Ella, I really don't know much about memorials in England. There may be a special one for Dunkirk but I've never heard about it. I left there for Canada in 1946.
"Look Back in Anger" is a play and I can't think by whom - a well known and more recent playwrite than Coward I'm pretty sure.
Betty
Ginny
January 25, 2000 - 04:04 pm
Well, God bless her I had no idea, what a life, eating coal? Gosh, that's awful.
But I do have to say anybody who ever saw Rutherford's Marple and Hickson's would know there's no comparison. Not to take anything away from either one.
Thanks for that, Ella, poor woman.
This last part of Coward's book seems really little more than different diary entries, which I believe he admits, augmented a bit. It's kind of fragmentary, I think , about his performances here and there, and how they were received, some funny stuff and it's a good look at life on the stage from the viewpoint of a performer.
Strange that pianist sitting naked like that, I've seen photos of George Mallory also standing around naked with friends, was that something people just DID then?
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 26, 2000 - 08:22 am
Betty - LOOK BACK IN ANGER was a play? After living many years, fragments of so many things learned remain with you and it isn't easy to separate them into a whole. Thanks for trying!
Ginny, quite agree with you. The last chapter in the book is short and about NC's adventures on his tour to entertain the soldiers in Africa and India. His connection with Lord (Dickie) Mountbatten, a cousin of the Royal Family, goes back many years and remained a great friendship until death. His film IN WHICH WE SERVE was based on Mountbatten's experience in the Royal Navy.
At the time of Coward's tour, the British Empire, of course, was in full bloom in those parts of the world and he mentions the Government House wherever he goes; supposedly this is where the Governor or appointed officials had their offices?
Perhaps if Betty (Hendie) is reading this she can help us out here a bit as I'm not where I should be in my remembrance of British history. Was it India who first got independence from England? And how soon afterwards did the colonies in Africa obtain their independence?
If we were historians we could have a wonderful debate on colonialism vs. independence and on the remnants of the British influence on their former colonies; however much I would love to listen to such a debate, I'm not well-versed in the subject to participate.
Any thoughts on that before we close the discussion for good?
If not, it's been a joy for me to read about Noel Coward and his times and to have your participation in the discussion. Thanks so much!
Betty H
January 26, 2000 - 04:26 pm
The only immediate reading matter I've been able to find about Noel Coward is a massively illustrated coffee- table book; " Noel Coward and His Friends" by Cole Lesley, Graham Payne and Sheridan Morley, published by Weidenfedl and Nicholsonnn : London. I'm enthralled! I'm going round the house mopping up condensation on the windows, happily singing out "May deah, I e-absolutely adoah doin thies - eat is mahvellously exciting"! This accent I can do, e-actually, because I was an infant and a toddler when Coward was first becoming the rage in London, and this way of tawkin was a fad - and a fashion in London society. And how easily we pick up and remember such things when we are little!
What a wonderful era that was - the roaring, hilarious, decadent twentys - the fun, the gayity. In London, Coward was shocking the Victorians; one of the critics of the revue " London Calling" made the criticism:"Ladies do not exhale smoke through the nose". After "The Vortex", which opened on Coward's 25th birthday (Dec. 16th 1924), it is reported that "bright young things were talking like typewriting, copying Noel's characters with their "too devine" and "simply marvellous, darling".
His gift for satire fitted the times and I wonder if he had a serious bone in his body; could that have anything to do with his lack of formal education I wonder. Some of the names he came up with in his writings at that time were highly amusing: in "A Withered Nosegay", published in America as "Terribly Intimate Portraits", there were such invented names as "Eighth Duchess of Wapping aka Madcap Moll, Julie Viscountess of Poopinac, Donna Isabella Angelica Y Bananas, Maggie McWhistle, Bianca Pianno-Forti and Hortense Poissons known as La Bibi". (Now I know why I named my favourite doll "Hortense"!) For Masie Gay, who sang his song "There's Life in the Old Girl Yet" in "London Calling" as a "wilting soubrette with a large broach flashing 'Baby' in diamonte on her bosom" he invented " Hernia Whittlebot"!
I think you picked a wonderful subject Ella; there could be so much to read about it if it wasn't so hard to come by. I can see why he was turned down as a spy, how could they take him seriously!
GingerWright
January 26, 2000 - 05:12 pm
Thank you Betty H.
Betty H
January 26, 2000 - 05:25 pm
Ella, the play "Look Back in Anger" is by John James Osborne, an English playwrite and author, born 1929.
Yes, I think India was the first to become independent soon after the war. Britain was broke and could no longer afford to support colonies, they were encouraged and helped to form their own governments.
Ella Gibbons
January 26, 2000 - 06:04 pm
Oh, Betty, how delightful that was - I can see you wiping the windows and gayly singing and you spelled those words out exactly as they must have sounded - wish I were there to hear it! You know, all Americans delight in the Cockney (is that correct?) dialect - the more they hear, the more they want.
Poor Noel - if he only knew what they did to the word "gay." - How do you think he would have reacted? Well, of course, with some witty bon mot. He used the word so many times in his book - it stood out because no one ever uses it anymore in that context.
And so it was a play - and you can look back in anger. I do, at times when I allow myself to (but that's a very long story!) Thanks for looking that up!
Do tell us some more that's in your book! You put it all so wonderfully British - I love it! And if I can look up anybody for you that you may be curious about - just anybody at all - from that period, let me know. I have Payn's book and the Philip Hoare book here but they will soon be going back to the library.
So many people have said the twenties were "decadent" and so they were in some respects; but women got the vote then and they smoked in public (which seems silly to us now, but was a big deal then), and started their quest for independence from men - the suffragettes marched and the men took notice.
Ella Gibbons
January 26, 2000 - 06:07 pm
Oh, Betty, one more thing - click up above in the heading where it says "Coward's Music" and you can sing along with the master himself - for a short while. How very delightful!
Betty H
January 26, 2000 - 08:11 pm
No darling, that was very haigh class. Cockney is gaw blimey. I can do that too!
Betty
Ella Gibbons
January 27, 2000 - 02:16 pm
Oh, yes, of course, like in MY FAIR LADY - got my "blimey" on the wrong foot didn't I?
Tell me something of what's in your coffee table book before we call a halt to this discussion. Anything we haven't talked about?
Betty H
January 28, 2000 - 06:31 am
There is so much wonderful stuff about Noel's life style in this book; I'll relate one here which gives a great picture of his lifestyle in America.
In New York, the "Round Table", at the Algonquin, featured greatly in Noel's scintillating crown of people which included the Lunts; Alexander Woolcott, Dorothy Parker, Robert Benchley, Harpo Marx and so many more witty people (what a wonderful group that must have made!); no one could remember what food was ordered between rallies of wit, but in Noel's case it was likely to be Littleneck Clams followed by Eggs Benedict or anything that would 'slip down easy' (sic), accompanied those days by an Old Fashioned or Whiskey Sour.
They quote: "The 'Round Table' became what must have been the most concentrated gathering of wit in the history of America before or since."
Ginny
January 28, 2000 - 03:23 pm
Ella, actually the derivation of the word "gay" is very interesting. Here's what the OED has to say about it:
A. Adj. Full of or disposed to joy and mirth; light-hearted, exuberantly cheerful, sportive, merry. Airy, off hand. Applied to women as a connventional epithet of praise-1802. Addicted to social pleasures and dissipations; often euphemistic: of immoral life (1637)....bright or lively looking etc....."\\
Interesting, hah?
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 28, 2000 - 05:07 pm
Betty - Oh, my, yes, the Algonquin! So many wonderfully witty folk - did you by any chance see the movie about Dorothy Parker? It wasn't publicized at all and was not done very well in my opinion - it focused on her alcoholism more than anything, but she was so great. Here's one of my favorite stories:
They would sit at the table and take turns throwing a word at a person who, in turn, got just a few seconds to put the word in a sentence. Of course, each tried to top the other. Dorothy Parker, in response to the word "horticulture" retorted quickly: You can lead a "whore"-to-culture, but you cannot make her think!
Their table was reserved for them at the Algonquin Hotel in NYC every day and people would sit all around them just to listen! Has there been anything to equal those folks?
Hmmmm, Ginny, yes, interesting those derivations! Take your pick huh? Who do you suppose was the first to apply the word "gay" to homosexuals? When did we begin hearing that word in that context? The sixties?
Ella Gibbons
January 28, 2000 - 06:01 pm
Isn't the Internet wonderful. Just looked up Dorothy Parker and here's one site, although there are many more. Isn't it strange that she left her estate to Martin Luther King, Jr. and then to the NAACP?
Dorothy Parker
She's pretty isn't she? And she held her own with that body of men!Betty H
January 29, 2000 - 08:45 am
"Gay" was such a lovely word; what a pity it's meaning was divorced from the original when it was directed toward homosexuality - I wonder why this happened, and what is the connection. Are homosexuals gayer, in the original sense of the word, than straight people?
I wonder if this quote of Noel's has been noted; I've been reading so much on him in the past few days that I haven't the stamina to go back over the posts. "Oh how fortunate I was to have been born poor. If Mother had been able to send me to private school, Eton and Oxford or Cambridge, it would probably have set me back years. I have always distrusted too much education and intellectualism. It seems to me that they are always dead wrong about things that really matter". This speaks volumes does it not? Not that it would be a good thing for all! His education was surely absorbed by osmosis!
Of interest to me was that Noel was labeled a war-monger in the pre-war late thirties, when he became insensed at the folly of Government appeasement toward Germany; "He felt the increasing awareness of what it meant to be English" - I relate to this feeling, I think it was pretty general throughout our land but I believe our politicians were playing for time. Funnily enough, along with this there was a general feeling of gaity ( there's that word againg) - of trying to make hay while the sun still shone. Noel quoted " Nothing to worry about but the destruction of civilization"......ouch!
Ginny
January 29, 2000 - 11:51 am
Ella, she is pretty, I'm very surprised, she has always seemed to me to be bitter. Very bitter. The Algonquin is a funny old hotel have you ever stayed in it?
I've had a coke in the Lobby there, but that's all, have not stayed.
Hendie, what life and perspective you are giving to this discussion! I hadn't read the first Coward book and did not know about his limited education. Apparently it didn't hurt him any in his life, tho.
For all Coward's laments on his facile nature and how he was always perceived to his detriment by other people, it seemed he didn't consciously try to change it. I stil maintain such a facile attitude is the cover up of a very clever person and I really feel more sympathy for him when he makes such remarks than at any other time. He must have been delightful and had Ella not wanted to read this book, I'd never have known much about him, thanks, Ella!
Ginny
Ella Gibbons
January 29, 2000 - 12:59 pm
Yes, I do remember reading that, Betty! I can't remember whether we commented upon his lack of education; however, could he have had the sense of ridicule of the "high and mighty" in his plays and stories had he been born to the manor? What do you think?
Have we had anybody like him in America? As talented? Have we had plays that ridiculed the upper class; even though we do not have royalty in this country, we do have "intellectualism" - that Harvard crowd, you know.
Betty, you said England was playing for time in appeasing Hitler (Chamberlain wasn't it?) - that's interesting. I've never thought of it that way. Was it to gear up for war - did you go into war production in 1939 in England?
Did you read in your book about NC's experiences in WWI? Very unfortunate and it haunted him the rest of his life and Philip Hoare intimated that was the reason he wanted to do something great for the war effort in WWII; not that entertaining the troops was nothing, but I do believe he sincerely wanted to make an effort toward helping win the war in a more serious vein - that of sabotage or intelligence - however, the bad press he was getting at the time prevented that.
So what was your "crowd" doing so gayly right before the war broke out? We were jitterbugging in the states and loving the uniforms - downright crazy about them actually. Silly stuff like that!
Betty H
January 29, 2000 - 08:57 pm
Ginny, no I wouldn't have known much about Noel Coward either had I not done this reading - in fact I did not know how many plays and reviews be had written and acted in in such a short time - I mean the man seemed to write a play in two days and then have it in production in a few weeks! And then another and another! He was apparently like Churchill who cat-napped - he could put his head down and sleep at any time.
Oh yes Ella, and I read how desperately he wanted to do something "serious" in WW11. First of all he was told to go to Paris (that was before France fell) and sing "Mad Dogs and Englishmen" while bombs and shells fell on the city, and then he was told to" go and entertain the troops please"!
Had he been born to the manor he might have been subjected to that education, and who knows in what direction that mental energy might have gone - interesting thought!
We too, in England, were partying and generally having fun - as you say silly stuff, in 1939. I remember Swing music had just taken over from Jazz and Ragtime and we were dancing up a storm; in homes we had "Radiograms" - big pieces that contained radio and record changer and massive speakers. I believe the appeasements with Germany did give us time to get ouselves into gear to an extent, but the big problem, I've read, was that our leaders had their heads in the sand - except for a few like Churchill and Stevenson who were in the minority. Nobody wanted to believe that this could happen again after WW1.
Ella Gibbons
January 31, 2000 - 03:01 pm
My books are all back at the Library, Betty, is there anything else about this fascinating fellow - this mad Englishman - that you are reading that we haven't discussed?
Are there a lot of pictures in your book? Don't you agree with Ginny that Graham Payn is handsome? And such a good friend to NC - Jack Wilson turned out to be somewhat corrupt with Coward's monies and had to be let go. He was a great friend through many years, however.
Does the book show the Queen Mary (is that right? Elizabeth's mother?) and her family attending some of his plays? He always loved royalty and it was reciprocal.
Betty H
January 31, 2000 - 04:25 pm
After WW11 NC seemed to have a problem getting back into the swim of things - which he did, didn't he, and very successfully - particularily in America, which he finally loved. (Hey hey, don't we all!) I love the idea of him in Las Vagas! I wonder if the fraternization that took place between GIs and Brits during WW11 had helped paved the way for acceptance of his brand of humour? I,m sure we all got to understand eachother better in those few years.
Yes indeed, I do think Graham was a handsome fellow Ginny.
Oh gee, masses of pictures - more pictures than text! I don't have a scanner yet, unfortunately. The Royal Family and all the greats of Brit and American theatre, film and politics.
This has been fun. What do we do next? I have my date for surgery - 17th Feb, so I hope to be back down in Florida before March. Looking forward to that because I'm shrivelling up in this cold!
Ella Gibbons
February 1, 2000 - 07:41 am
I'll be thinking of you on the 17th, Betty! Hope all goes well - I've never heard of surgery for a kidney stone; the few people I know who've had them usually have passed them - often with a great deal of pain. Good luck to you and let us know when you get home.
We've had one of the coldest winters, haven't we? Oh, boy, oh, boy, Florida sounds great to me, too!
We are leaving the 3rd week in February and will be gone about a month, so am not planning another book discussion at the moment.
Is there any you'd like to read and talk about? Think about it and let me know - I'm making a list of nonfiction books and when I get back and get all the laundry done and rested up, we can decide on one that looks good. Keep it in mind, O.K?
patwest
February 6, 2000 - 02:53 pm
Noel Coward surely led a very interesting life and his record of his day-to-day life was fun to follow... It gets one to dreaming that maybe that sort of life would be fun... And then I come back to earth and realize that I like the environment I live in and really would not change it... Like going on a trip, it is so much fun to see new areas, countries, and people... and it is also so nice to come home..
