Poetry ~ 2006 Part 2
patwest
June 30, 2006 - 11:01 am
A place to share and discuss your favorite poems.
"Here in this discussion we can do what my poetry group does in my home.
We can allow our feelings to be known...to share through our readings and writings what others may never know of us. I am so excited by the prospect and I hope you are as well.
Share the poems that have moved you, be they your own or others." ......Annafair




An Index of Poets in Representative Poetry Online -- an invaluable treasury of poetry old and new | Darwinian Poetry -- an experiment in computer-generated poetry influenced by reader's selections

---Poetry~Archives

"A man is known by the company his mind keeps."
....Thomas Bailey Aldrich


October brings us our poet for the month Ted Kooser, He was the 13th poet to be named United States Poet Laureate and served from 2004-2006 His poetry has garnered many awards and recognition including The Pulitzer Prize for Poetry in 2005.

Mr.James H. Bullington, Librarian of Congress said when appointing Mr Kooser "Ted Kooser is a major poetic voice for rural and small town America and the first Poet Laureate chosen from the Great Plains. His verse reaches beyond his native region to touch on universal themes in accessible ways."

Nebraska considers Mr. Kooser their favorite poet. I believe a month of study of Mr. Kooser poems will make him one of ours as well. In researching poets to discuss I was impressed with his poems and I think you will share that opinion as you join me in learning more about this uniquely American poet While we will study his poetry he can also be called a playwright, a writer of fiction, personal essays and literary criticisms. He is a man of many talents.

Ted Kooser Website
Ted Kooser's Poems
Kooser Poems


November will bring us the Russian Poetess Anna Akhmatova. A perfect poet to welcome winter.

Your Poetry Discussion Leader is: Annafair


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patwest
June 30, 2006 - 11:16 am
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MarjV
June 30, 2006 - 06:23 pm
Guess I better re-post the website I came across for Lawson e-text material (books online)

E-texts of Henry Lawson short stories & poems, notes, etc

Barbara St. Aubrey
June 30, 2006 - 08:33 pm
I know everyone is ready for Lawson - however, late for UPS my Amazon delivery came about 7:30 this evening that included my Neruda tome - I battled back and forth to decide which of his books of poetry would I enjoy for years to come and finally decided upon Odes to Common Things - a lovely hardback copy that has the Spanish on the opposite page from the English. The book with a wide green spin and drawing on the cover of an old fashioned glass salt shaker, feels so nice to my hands as I picked it up and took it to the front porch to read before the light left the sky.

In his Ode to things these lines just hit me to the core because they say what I believe and in fact the reason I dislike that most everything we purchase these days are manufactured rather than handmade.

glasses, knives and
scissors -
all bear
the trace
of someone's fingers
on their handle or surface,
the trace of a distant hand
lost
in the depth of forgetfulness.

I pause in houses,
streets and
elevators,
touching things,
identifying objects

Since I really do not, nor even as a child have I ever coveted things - always preferred things be where the most folks can see and touch them I did not add the next lines where he speaks of coveting things -

I wonder if as children we had some inner eye to what more an object is - I am sure we were all similar to my own childhood memory - I can still hear my mom telling me "don't touch Bobby" she called me Bobby - as a teen I would have no more of it since all the kids made fun - I was more tomboy than not so I took it very personal.

Ah but touching fabric was a glorious experience - or sneaking a touch during Mass of the fur coat on the lady in front of us - that surely got Mom's eye and as I grew older my hands ached to touch what I knew she would be upset if I did...I still like to glide my hand over a waxed piece of handmade furnature and knowing the hands that stiched a quilt or old dress calls me to run my fingers over the seams.

And then this wonderment in Ode to the Table

The world
is a table
engulfed in honey and smoke,
smothered in apples and blood.
the table is already set,
and we know the truth
as soon as we are called:
whether we're called to war or to dinner
we will have to choose sides,
have to know
how we'll dress
to sit
at the long table,
whether we'll wear the pants of hate
or the shirt of love, freshly laundered.
It's time to decide,
they're calling :
boys and girls,
let's eat!

With that I had to put down the book and just think and think with my mind taking various routes to always come back to the idea of the world as a table.

I did not know of Neruda and I am so pleased with this month - his poetry is not as wordy as some but says so much with so few words. Thanks Anna this was a month long treat for me that I would never have experienced without your knowing and focusing on Pablo Neruda.

annafair
June 30, 2006 - 08:56 pm
looking forward to seeing What Henry has to say . Again I want to thank everyone for your many posts , for your thoughts shared and giving my life a purpose. It is hard sometimes to say what my heart feels about things. Poetry is such a gift and then the true gift is finding those who love it as well. I love books but I dont memorize them ..Poetry I have memorized since I was barely old enough to speak. There is something so elemental in poetry and long after I have read it I will find it returning ..sometimes a whole poem or bits and pieces ..there seems to be a poem somewhere that says exactly what and how I feel.

Poetry opens doors to my inner self ..and to find others feel the same way is a precious gift. I am not sure we can leave any of them behind..and again .I want to repeat ANY POEM IS WELCOME HERE regardless of what poet we are discussing.. NOW to my first choice of Henry Lawson ...I chose this one because I can remember traveling west with my aunt and uncle and going through the mountains and seeing the water tumbling and he paints a picture that my mind says OH I REMEMBER YOU .. anna

The Blue Mountains
Henry Lawson 1888


Above the ashes straight and tall,
Through ferns with moisture dripping,
I climb beneath the sandstone wall,
My feet on mosses slipping.


Like ramparts round the valley's edge
The tinted cliffs are standing.
With many a broken wall and ledge,
And many a rocky landing.


And round about their rugged feet
Deep ferny dells are hidden
In shadowed depths, whence dust and heat
Are banished and forbidden.


The stream that, crooning to itself,
Comes down a tireless rover,
Flows calmly to the rocky shelf,
And there leaps bravely over.


Now pouring down, now lost in spray
When mountain breezes sally,
The water strikes the rock midway,
And leaps into the valley.


Now in the west the colours change,
The blue with crimson blending;
Behind the far Dividing Range,
The sun is fast descending.


And mellowed day comes o'er the place,
And softens ragged edges;
The rising moon's great placid face
Looks gravely o'er the ledges.

Barbara St. Aubrey
June 30, 2006 - 10:25 pm
Anna had to read this a couple of times because that last bit gave me a jolt so that for me this was a poem about a man's life -

Re-reading and then re-reading aloud that is how I am hearing this poem - he is born from the ashes and like a stream from the ramparts on to the Valley floor he highlights the ventures in his life till the dividing line when age softens the edges that the next generation will clamper over but that he, past the midway point with the sun descending, has mellowed and like the placid moon he can allow the ledges of his life to meld and soften.

The lines that give me an immediate mind picture are:
The water strikes the rock midway,
And leaps into the valley.

Interesting how so many, especially the young want to see me as being in the valley and yet I do not feel like I am there yet, I'm still wondering along the ledges in the late afternoon sun with afternoon's long purple shadows.

I was so annoyed the other day while shopping in the garden nursery and this young sales girl was waxing on how I reminded her of a teacher she had in grade school - the way she was talking to me was so condescending - grrrr - I am planting a new garden for heavens sake - when you are contemplating the moon over a darkened valley you do not go around planting new gardens... the time to contemplate the moon will come but I am not there now even if my looks tell others they think that is what I should be doing...

annafair
June 30, 2006 - 11:16 pm
You are so right When I re read it I had to agree ,, I was in a hurry and since it reminded me of traveling through the west and seeing the mountains and the streams but I did wonder at the wording ..it seemed a bit obscure THANKS you to you I will pay more attention in the future..That is what makes this discussion so vital is sharing what each of us sees in a poem.

And lordy do I understand about people being condescending Drives me wild ..which is one reason I lie about my age all the time When I asked I say 22 now that is so obviously not true but I find people respond different when I say that If they question me I reply IT IS THE AGE I FEEL AND I Think I should get credit for feeling that way.

It isnt that I dont appreciate people being kind but I feel I keep young in attitude because I keep busy . I just pressure washed my deck and am going out to buy the sealer today ! Perhaps we can form an group like the RED HAT SOCIETY and call ourselves The young at heart group Thanks for reading the poem and seeing the real meaning of Henry's words.

What would I do without all of you ??? Love ,anna

JUNEE
July 1, 2006 - 02:12 am
ANNAFAIR- The Blue Mountains are about a 2 hour drive from where I live and I always suggest day there when I have visitors from interstate or overseas. Henry Lawson is a contemporary of Banjo Patterson and they are the best of Australian writers of the Colonial days.

Henry Lawson certainly captures the valleys-ferns-waterfalls and cliff faces in his poem. The sun -sets behind the Mt range (The Great Dividing Range)is a sight to see. He was an alcoholic - his quote being"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer" LOL. In recent years The Blue Mountains has been listed as a World Heritage area and is also noted for having one of the world's oldest plants- the recently discovered Wollomi Pine.

The Great Dividing range is the name of the mountains from North East Queensland the entire length of the eastern coastline of Australia thru New South Wales and Victoria and divides the watersheds of streams and rivers which flow East directly into the Pacific Ocean from rivers which flow inwards,West and South.

annafair
July 1, 2006 - 03:18 am
Thank you so much for that information ,,,and you remind me that when we are discussing and sharing a poet from some place it might be wise for me to do a bit of research and see what place they may be describing.

I have also read some of Banjo Pattersons poetry and of course Waltzing Matilda ..as you can see poetry is life to my being and I find wherever and whomever the poet might be ..his/her poems resonate with me. Thank you so much ..and welcome ..anna

MarjV
July 1, 2006 - 04:56 am
http://www.bluemountainsphotos.com/

Val Gamble
July 1, 2006 - 05:25 am
ANNAFAIR........The saying we have at Beat the Feet dance exercise group I am in is "We don't do old".....I think it's great.After all age is just a number.It's how you feel inside that counts...I am currenty reading a fairly thick book on the life of Matthew Flinders who was one of the early explorers of this country.It isn't poetry but I love any books that deal with the early settlers and how they lived.He travelled with Andrew Bass who Bass Strait was named after and he himself had the Flinders Ranges named after him.Sorry this isn't poetry.

annafair
July 1, 2006 - 07:57 am
As usual you are ahead of me and what a spectacular link...was thinking when I was looking at the views of the Blue Mountains in Australia of Blue Ridge Mountains here in Virginia .. My daughter lives in the foothills of the Blue Ridge and when I drive there I can hardly wait for the moment when they first come into view. Thanks so much for that link...I saved it in my favorites When I cant go to the mountains they can come to me via my computer Same with the sea although it is close. anna

BaBi
July 1, 2006 - 08:06 am
I like the Lawson poetry that captures the everyday life and work of the Australian outback. Like the following lines:

The ladies are coming", the super says to the shearers sweltering there, and 'the ladies' means in the shearing shed..."don't cut 'em too bad. Don't swear." The ghost of a pause in the shed's rough heart, and lower is bowed each head, then nothing is heard save a whispered word, and the roar of the shearing shed."

I want to read more of it. Doesn't this remind you of Robert Service?I'd like to join you all on this session. ...Babi

Alliemae
July 1, 2006 - 08:26 am
I think one of the reasons poetry has tugged at my soul is because I am such a 'big picture' person by nature and poetry tunes me into a word...a turn of words...a phrase, and I find that fulfilling and relaxing, very much like meditation or cloud watching.

I was immediately captured by:

"Through ferns with moisture dripping,...", remembering a part of my young childhood when we lived on a farm near the woods and I can remember the wetness on my ankles as I ran through the grasses and ferns early in the morning.

"And round about their rugged feet
Deep ferny dells are hidden
In shadowed depths, whence dust and heat
Are banished and forbidden."

I love Henry Lawson's choice of words in this verse.

"the stream that, crooning to itself,..."

The lyrical quality of this line was like a tender hug, like a lullaby...

I also noticed as I read through the poem that the meter reminded me of those never-forgotten meters of those first and beloved poems I learned at my dad's knee, like "School Days"...

I think I'm going to feel very much at home with this man.

Alliemae

annafair
July 1, 2006 - 08:33 am
So good to see you here ..WELCOME and we are not picky We are discussing one of Australias GREAT poets so anything about Australia is welcome ..I have found that when we discuss a poet we are not only interested in the poetry but what produced it,.The place , the whys and wherefores of where they were born, how they lived ..it gives us a clue to the heart of thier poems.

I think all seniornetters are a curious lot.We want to know everything and that keeps us young WE DONT DO OLD LOL anna

annafair
July 1, 2006 - 08:43 am
I think you have said what sometimes I have struggled to say about why poetry means so much to me..It is a form of meditating ...or cloud watching ( I have written a poem about cloud watching because it is something I have always done) I am so grateful for everyones take on the poems we discuss. I know I was a bit hurried when I posted the poem this morning. I had read about ten and decided on Blue Mountains and just gave my first feelings of I LIKE THIS ONE ..

I always appreciate everyone's thoughts ,it opens the poem for me ..Suddenly I see it more whole , more complete and it brings me a special kind of enjoyment ..Thank you and I agree with your last line "I think I'm going to feel very much at home with this man. "

anna

annafair
July 1, 2006 - 08:58 am
It is so good to see you here ..And you have mentioned one of my favorite poets Robert Service. His poetry about Alaska always made me want to hop on a train and GO THERE.. It is still one of my dreams it may always be unfulfilled but it will always lie there beckoning to me. And you are right Lawson is writing about what was happening in Australia when Service was writing about what was happening in Alaska ..Lawson 1867-1922 Service 1874-1958

This discussion is like both of them VAST Horizons with room for everyone and you know I am happy to see you here..anna

Scrawler
July 1, 2006 - 11:59 am
Last stanza:

Ah, then our hearts were bolder,
And if Dame Fortune frowned
Our swags we'd lightly shoulder
And tramp to other ground.
But golden days are vanished,
And altered is the scene;
The diggings are deserted,
The camping-grounds are green;
The flaunting flag of progress
Is in the West unfurled,
The might bush with iron rails
Is tethered to the world.

[In the Days When the World Was] ~Henry Lawson

This poem reminded me of days past when 49ers here in America panned for gold and Dame Fortune for most also alluded them. My grandmother on my father's side was a 49er. He left us family in San Francisco to seek a fortune for them in the Sierras, but he never returned and my great-grandmother raised her ten children alone.

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 1, 2006 - 02:02 pm
owwww I like that idea

The might bush with iron rails
Is tethered to the world.

Almost like the rails tied the world together like the ribbon on a package - the first affordable communication over land that did not take months and days - it opened up mail delivery and telegraph wires that we now replace with the internet however the rails are an easier mind picture to see the wonder of it as compared to the invisible link the internet is dependent upon.

BaBi
July 1, 2006 - 03:14 pm
SCRAWLER, when I read those lines my first thought was also of the prospectors of the gold rush days. Lawson speaks of diggings, I assume he is talking about prospecting in Australia.

Does anyone know if there was an Australian version of the gold rush?

Babi

MarjV
July 1, 2006 - 03:38 pm
http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/goldrush/

Alliemae
July 1, 2006 - 03:51 pm
Hi, in The Blue Mountains in the fourth stanza, second line can someone tell me what Lawson means by 'a tireless rover'? Thanks!

MarjV, re E-texts...and I must 're-thank you' for 're-posting' the link...it is so filled with information, almost like a course outline! Thanks!

JUNEE and Val, so good to have folks from Australia with the group. I say Welcome! and can only repeat what annafair says in her post #14: "We are discussing one of Australias GREAT poets so anything about Australia is welcome ...".

I also felt the need to read the last stanza of this poem again and again...something about the moon looking 'gravely' was what gave me pause.

anna I would like it very much if you would post your poem on 'Cloud Watching'...I've just started and it's a wonderfully meditative and sometimes comical hobby.

I started to memorize our first poem and am so slow I'm still working on it. Hopefully I'll get to the next poem before day is done so I don't get all backed up like I did last month.

Alliemae

annafair
July 1, 2006 - 04:36 pm
And this poem still needs working on .and since I mentioned it I will post it but in the future I am going to keep my mouth shut

A Poem of failure


Why cant I find the words that best describe a cloud ?
Nothing seems to fit that flowing moisture laded air
Sometimes they look like faces . Or ghostly ships at sea.
Sometimes like soap suds floating on a pond,
Some describe as cottony which doesn’t seem to fit;
For cotton is too substantial for these amorphous fluid shapes.
Times when they betray an anger that makes me fear,
Their darkened countenance. A juggernaut they roll
Across a deep gray plain; and punish us with pelting rain.
I have seen them huddled , a flock of sheep slowly moving
At some unseen shepherds command. , Always some who don’t obey
Wandering from the main, foraging..all alone on a blued field of grain
Sometimes along the horizon, they seem like milk spilled across the sky
A spoonful dropped upon the floor,
Spreading outward ,thinly veiling the azure high.
Waiting, for a dark cat cloud to come along and lap it up.


Bubbling over along its edge, a heap of curdled whey
I have seen them on the ocean, a flotilla massed at bay
Ready to do battle like pirates on foray
I have seen them, a tufted blanket from the window of a plane.
But never , never have I seen them look the same.
I have seen them in the morning , blushing to think
We've caught them by surprise or in the sky at sunset
On fire. They touch the world but never burn it down.
Alas, I can never , never pin them down.I just enjoy
These ever moving, never ceasing things ...called clouds.


Anna Alexander
8/28/04
all rights reserved


Now that I have posted it I CAN See it really needs some work This was my first draft , getting my thoughts in some sort of order. But I think it shows how difficult it is to say just what a cloud really looks like..anna

anneofavonlea
July 1, 2006 - 07:10 pm
Andy's Gone With Cattle

Henry Lawson

1888

Our Andy's gone to battle now
'Gainst Drought, the red marauder;
Our Andy's gone with cattle now
Across the Queensland border.

He's left us in dejection now;
Our hearts with him are roving.
It's dull on this selection now,
Since Andy went a-droving.

Who now shall wear the cheerful face
In times when things are slackest?
And who shall whistle round the place
When Fortune frowns her blackest?

Oh, who shall cheek the squatter now
When he comes round us snarling?
His tongue is growing hotter now
Since Andy cross'd the Darling.

The gates are out of order now,
In storms the "riders" rattle;
For far across the border now
Our Andy's gone with cattle.

Poor Aunty's looking thin and white;
And Uncle's cross with worry;
And poor old Blucher howls all night
Since Andy left Macquarie.

Oh, may the showers in torrents fall,
And all the tanks run over;
And may the grass grow green and tall
In pathways of the drover;

And may good angels send the rain
On desert stretches sandy;
And when the summer comes again
God grant 'twill bring us Andy.

We learned this at school, under the watchful eye of Sister Bride, and somehow Lawson seeped into the psyche. later in life we learned he was simplistic and populist,but alas the academics came to late with their knowledge and Aussies of our generation still argue the merits of Lawson against Paterson.

Anneo

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 2, 2006 - 12:24 am
I thought this was a good write-up about Lawson what do you think Anneo and here is a link that goes briefly into the Paterson Lawson connection.

Interesting Lawson was bipolar we are hearing a lot now about how bipolar folks are not in continuous therapy but they are treated with medication that is supposed to lesson the swings and rather than taking the medication many have turned to alcohol and so they have a duel problem.

hats
July 2, 2006 - 02:52 am
Hi Anna and All and Newcomers too!

I am behind in reading the posts. I have never met Henry Lawson. I have heard from a favorite poster in "Don Quixote" that he is really great. All I know about Australia is the book and movie "The Thornbirds." I also looked at the Olympics in Australia. I really enjoyed the Olympics there. I just wanted a closer view. So, I am anxious to learn about Australia. I have met some Aussies here at Seniornet. All have been more than kind. I am beginning to feel like hopping a ride on a kangaroo and heading down to Australia. It is definitely a place that seems unique and beautiful.

MarjV and others, who have posted links thank you. I will greatly enjoy all of the clickables today. Can't wait.

hats
July 2, 2006 - 03:00 am
Anna, what a great poem for the opener. I like Henry Lawson already. The whole poem is like a landscape painting. I especially like the mention of ferns. This summer I became brave enough to buy my first Boston Fern. The fern makes my patio look quite exotic. I mist my fern diligently. I have the feeling he likes lots of water. Well, this is my favorite line in 'The Blue Mountains.'

"Through ferns with moisture dripping,"

Well, ferns do love water. Henry Lawson writes it in this second line. What serendipity!

hats
July 2, 2006 - 03:15 am
Anna, I want to say your poem about Clouds needs not a bit of work. I loved every single word. You are truly gifted, Anna. It is very hard to pick a favorite line. I will give it a try.

they seem like milk spilled across the sky
A spoonful dropped upon the floor,
Spreading outward ,thinly veiling the azure high.
Waiting, for a dark cat cloud to come along and lap it up.


You have given me a new hobby. I will look closer at the clouds. I have seen "milk spilled across the sky." I just never would have thought of those words. The picture of the cloud in my head matches the words in your poem. Thank you for sharing another great one.

Alliemae, thank you for mentioning Cloud Watching.

hats
July 2, 2006 - 03:23 am
Anneo, I am so glad you are here. I have missed you. I love your poem about Andy. I can feel the family's need for him to be home and not there. I related this poem to my boys. A longing for my boys to be back home again. They are young men, not cattling in the Aussie way. Cattling in other ways by making a living. Then, living through life's droughts and such. These are my favorite lines.

And who shall whistle round the place
When Fortune frowns her blackest?


My father could whistle so loudly by putting two fingers in his mouth. I thought that made him a hero. On my saddest days I could hear that whistle and I would start laughing and running to my dad. A whistle like that, made by a strong man, can chase the blues away.

hats
July 2, 2006 - 03:26 am
Junee, those Blue Mountains are beautiful. You live two hours away, a short jump, to such a peaceful, lovely spot. That's the good life.

hats
July 2, 2006 - 03:54 am
The Ships That Won't Go Down

Henry Lawson

1898

We hear a great commotion
'Bout the ship that comes to grief,
That founders in mid-ocean,
Or is driven on a reef;
Because it's cheap and brittle
A score of sinners drown.
But we hear but mighty little
Of the ships that won't go down.


Here's honour to the builders –
The builders of the past;
Here's honour to the builders
That builded ships to last;
Here's honour to the captain,
And honour to the crew;
Here's double-column headlines
To the ships that battle through.


They make a great sensation
About famous men that fail,
That sink a world of chances
In the city morgue or gaol,
Who drink, or blow their brains out,
Because of "Fortune's frown".
But we hear far too little
Of the men who won't go down.


The world is full of trouble,
And the world is full of wrong,
But the heart of man is noble,
And the heart of man is strong!
They say the sea sings dirges,
But I would say to you
That the wild wave's song's a paean
For the men that battle through.


The last line says more than enough. "For the men that battle through." It does seem very easy to not remember people who are fighting the good fight daily. Their giants and battles are huge.Only a few people give these people a nod, a smile, a note, for their unfailing willingness to keep on going, to take another step. Hard times are for tough people with gentle hearts. I have read about many of these people on Seniornet. These people are in my family. With emotional pain or physical pain, they continue to hope and march into the next day. I am glad Henry Lawson recognizes the brave souls who have not sunk.

anneofavonlea
July 2, 2006 - 06:17 am
nice to see you as well, very busy, but hoping to look in here occasionally for Henry lawson. I share your admiration for those who persevere, and interestingly thats the first time I have actually read that poem. Thanks for posting it.

Barbara, excellent link, the difference in attitude to the bush, between Lawson and Paterson, was to some degree orchestrated, as they realized it got them more poetry space in the Bulletin, which used to publish their work.

It also makes reference to "The Drover's Wife", which I love, though its prose not poetry, because if the bush is hard for men, it is almost impossible for women, and yet so many of them battled away beside their husbands. I think Lawson probably had some sympathy for women and their lot.

Junee, do you go to the mountains often? The Blue Mountains always remind me of Blue Hills, an Aussie radio serial, which played here for many a year as part of the National Country Hour, gosh this looking up poetry makes the mind wander.

Anna I like the cloud poem, looking at clouds is such a relaxing experience, kind of like watching goldfish swim, almost hypnotising.

Anneo

Alliemae
July 2, 2006 - 06:49 am
anna, I am truly impressed by your poetry and especially this one about the cloud.

I like 'first drafts' because I feel if I read a first draft I can know the poet better--before they put on their poem's 'Sunday go-to-meeting' clothes.

These were my favorite lines:

"Sometimes along the horizon, they seem like milk spilled across
the sky
A spoonful dropped upon the floor,
Spreading outward ,thinly veiling the azure high.
Waiting, for a dark cat cloud to come along and lap it up.

I can see that...and feel it too.

Thank you anna...your poem is lovely!

Alliemae

BaBi
July 2, 2006 - 08:59 am
ANNA, it was such a pleasure to read your poem about Clouds. I could see them as I read. And I note Hats and AllieMae both picked the same lines as their favorites. You won't want to change those!

I am loving Henry Lawson. There is no question about it, I'm going to have to go find copies of his poems for my permanent bookshelf. His "Andy" was so real and so poignant.

In his metre, his style, I am hearing echos not only of Robert Sterling, but also Rudyard Kipling. I have to believe he was influenced by their poems in writing his own.

Babi

hats
July 2, 2006 - 09:11 am
Babi, I am really enjoying his poetry too.

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 2, 2006 - 11:32 am
This one says tons to me...
The Things We Dare Not Tell

The fields are fair in autumn yet, and the sun's still shining there,
But we bow our heads and we brood and fret, because of the masks we wear;
Or we nod and smile the social while, and we say we're doing well,
But we break our hearts, oh, we break our hearts! for the things we must not tell.

There's the old love wronged ere the new was won, there's the light of long ago;
There's the cruel lie that we suffer for, and the public must not know.
So we go through life with a ghastly mask, and we're doing fairly well,
While they break our hearts, oh, they kill our hearts! do the things we must not tell.

We see but pride in a selfish breast, while a heart is breaking there;
Oh, the world would be such a kindly world if all men's hearts lay bare!
We live and share the living lie, we are doing very well,
While they eat our hearts as the years go by, do the things we dare not tell.

We bow us down to a dusty shrine, or a temple in the East,
Or we stand and drink to the world-old creed, with the coffins at the feast;
We fight it down, and we live it down, or we bear it bravely well,
But the best men die of a broken heart for the things they cannot tell.

Henry Lawson, 1901

Scrawler
July 2, 2006 - 11:46 am
Three bushmen one morning rode up to an inn,
And one of them called for the drinks with a grin;
They'd only returned from a trip to the North,
And, eager to greet them, the landlord came forth.
He absently poured out a glass of Three Star.
And set down that drink with the rest on the bar.

'There, that is for Harry,' he said, 'and it's queer,
'Tis the very same glass that he drank from last year;
His name's on the glass, you can read it like print,
He scratched it himself with an old piece of flint;
I remember his drink - it was always Three Star' -
And the landlord looked out through the door of the bar.<p< He looked at the horses, and counted but three:
'You were always together - where's Harry?' cried he.
Oh, sadly they looked at the glass as they said,
'You may put it away, for our old mate is dead;'
But one, gazing out o'er the ridges afar,
Said, 'We owe him a shout - leave the glass on the bar.'

They thought of the far-away grave on the plain.
They thought of the comrade who came not again,
They lifted their glasses, and sadly they said:
'We drink to the name of the mate who is dead.'
And the sunlight streamed in, and a light like a star
Seemed to glow in the depth of the glass on the bar.

And still in that shanty a tumbler is seen,
It stands by the clock, ever polished and clean;
And often the strangers will read as they pass
The name of a bushman engraved on the glass;
And though on the shelf but a dozen there are,
That glass never stands with the rest on the bar.

~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

What a fitting tribute to their mate. My dad was in Australia during WWII, but he doesn't talk about it much. He brought home a boomrang and I used to like to hold it when I was a child. It felt kinda weird-smooth like.

hats
July 2, 2006 - 12:19 pm
Barbara, your poem written by Henry Lawson is beautiful and truthful. Immediately, it reminded me of my favorite poem by Paul Laurence Dunbar.

I think being "real" is freeing. It is also noble. It takes courage to bare all things to all men. Some have been so brutally hurt by a friend or other person, vulnerability, the ability to become trusting again becomes a day by day process. It's like feeding a mistreated puppy or kitty. I can't win their love the first day. I mustn't give up. In time, their time, their love will bare itself. The mask will come off because the pup or kitty knows a true friend when they meet one.

Anna, said we could share other poems as well. This one by Paul Laurence Dunbar is on the same subject, becoming real to others.

We Wear the Mask

Paul Laurence Dunbar (1872-1906)


We Wear the Mask


WE wear the mask that grins and lies,
It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes,—
This debt we pay to human guile;
With torn and bleeding hearts we smile,
And mouth with myriad subtleties.


Why should the world be over-wise,
In counting all our tears and sighs?
Nay, let them only see us, while
We wear the mask.


We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries
To thee from tortured souls arise.
We sing, but oh the clay is vile
Beneath our feet, and long the mile;
But let the world dream otherwise,
We wear the mask!

hats
July 2, 2006 - 12:25 pm
Scrawler, I think 'The Glass on the Bar' by Henry Lawson is my favorite one so far. I bet Three Star was a loyal buddy. Thank you for sharing the story about your dad.

annafair
July 2, 2006 - 01:31 pm
This is the fourth time I have checked in ..trying to decide which poem I should post and reading what you have shared and thinking how each poet reaches us, teaches us new things, Already I am finding so much about Australia and our poet of the month is writing about the history of Australia. As many poems that I have read, memorized and never forgotten some how I missed the fact that poetry is really history in rhyme.So many history books I have read were written not by the people who lived it but by someone who researched and here we are reading about history from the heart and soul of a man who lived it and recorded it with his words.

I am taken by the similarity of our country and how it was settled The Australians had aborigines and we did too only we called them Indians because Columbus thought at first that is where he was. We had indentured people, we had slaves , we had much of what Australia had ..English ,Irish , etc and and so Lawson's poems mean to me I am not only discovering Australia but re discovering America as well.

Alliemae said Lawson's poems reminded her of the poems her father read to her as a child and they remind me of the first poems I read as a child,. They tell a story, often based on history but always based on human thoughts , feelings and deeds. And they are almost like a song They have a rhythm that sort of stays with you ...and makes you feel I would like to read that again.

The poem I chose I cant really say why I just know it caught my eye and it tells a tale we all know even if we think we have forgot.So without further explanation .I offer my second selection ..anna

Do You Think That I Do Not Know?


Henry Lawson-1910


They say that I never have written of love,
As a writer of songs should do;
They say that I never could touch the strings
With a touch that is firm and true;
They say I know nothing of women and men
In the fields where Love's roses grow,
And they say I must write with a halting pen
Do you think that I do not know?


When the love-burst came, like an English Spring,
In days when our hair was brown,
And the hem of her skirt was a sacred thing
And her hair was an angel's crown.
The shock when another man touched her arm,
Where the dancers sat round in a row;
The hope and despair, and the false alarm
Do you think that I do not know?


By the arbour lights on the western farms,
You remember the question put,
While you held her warm in your quivering arms
And you trembled from head to foot.
The electric shock from her finger tips,
And the murmuring answer low,
The soft, shy yielding of warm red lips
Do you think that I do not know?


She was buried at Brighton, where Gordon sleeps,
When I was a world away;
And the sad old garden its secret keeps,
For nobody knows to-day.
She left a message for me to read,
Where the wild wide oceans flow;
Do you know how the heart of a man can bleed
Do you think that I do not know?


I stood by the grave where the dead girl lies,
When the sunlit scenes were fair,
And the white clouds high in the autumn skies,
And I answered the message there.
But the haunting words of the dead to me
Shall go wherever I go.
She lives in the Marriage that Might Have Been
Do you think that I do not know?


They sneer or scoff, and they pray or groan,
And the false friend plays his part.
Do you think that the blackguard who drinks alone
Knows aught of a pure girl's heart?
Knows aught of the first pure love of a boy
With his warm young blood aglow,
Knows aught of the thrill of the world-old joy
Do you think that I do not know?


They say that I never have written of love,
They say that my heart is such
That finer feelings are far above;
But a writer may know too much.
There are darkest depths in the brightest nights,
When the clustering stars hang low;
There are things it would break his strong heart to write
Do you think that I do not know?


.

annafair
July 2, 2006 - 01:53 pm
You're curious like me here is a link you might want to check out ..'

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200471h.html

bluebird24
July 2, 2006 - 08:25 pm
blue mountains are beautiful! do not know henry lawson:( like above lavender bay:) do not understand all words in it love picture he paints in writing

annafair
July 2, 2006 - 09:15 pm
Welcome hope you will return .. everyone does a great job here posting and sharing what the poems mean .to them .You can do the same or just enjoy ..All us are very relaxed and friendly ..and we all love poetry ...come back and visit soon . anna PS I love your name.....

hats
July 3, 2006 - 02:54 am
Anna, The poems you write and the poems you choose each month stir my heart. This poem almost brought me to tears. I am holding my tears back as I write these words. Words unspoken are the ones to listen for, I think.

The use of repetition in this poem really made me feel for the person in the poem. Then, for the times I couldn't say what I wanted to say. My heart would break to bring up the painful circumstances in my life today and yesterday. I would cry. Maybe the tears would flow uncontrollably. Didn't my silence speak volumes? As Henry Lawson wrote,

"Do you think that I do not know?"

hats
July 3, 2006 - 02:54 am
This is a very special home away from home.

hats
July 3, 2006 - 03:43 am
The tool of repetition allows the person to tell all of this person's feelings.

Val Gamble
July 3, 2006 - 05:25 am
SCRAWLER..........I too loved that poem about the glass on the bar.I found it very moving...It reminded me too of a tale my eldest Brother used to tell.One of those believe it or not tales.He was travelling up to the North West of Western Australia with a couple of mates on their way to work at Dampier Salt Mines.They picked up a couple of hitchhikers along the way.They stopped at a hotel along the way as it was a very long drive.When they got inside my Brother noticed that the hitchhikers were not with them.The manager asked who they were talking about and when my Brother described them the whole place fell silent.Those two people were killed the year before at the same spot where my Brother and his friends picked them up.

annafair
July 3, 2006 - 07:01 am
The way you feel is the way I feel about the poem Do You Think That I Do Not Know.. You dont reach our age without knowing what the person speaking meant,. I have a copy in front of me and I can hardly read it again and yet it has my own meaning and so I do.

I always hesitate to post a sad poem and yet it was the loss of my husband that set me to writing poetry. And even though I write funny and amusing poems ...little things take me back to that last dark day and again I will write a sad poem.And while they make me weep I find when the tears have stopped I somehow feel better. And I realize I am always going to have a nest of tears and once in awhile I need to shed some to give me relief,.It allows me to move on and to think of all the reasons I have to be glad, to be happy and know it is what my beloved would have wished.

But I am going to try to find a happier poem today!

And Val that is a spooky thing to have happened and yet I have written a poem about a place in our Civil War called The Battle of The Wilderness. It lies between the towns where my two daughters used to live. The first time I took that road Before I read the sign about this battle I felt an overwhelming sense of sadness and while the sun was shining without a cloud it seemed as I approached this place it suddenly became dimmer like a dark mist hung over the land ..When I read the roadsign telling about the first time I really didnt think too much of it But each time I drove over that road about 5 miles from the place this pall would come over me and I would be moved to tears . Finally I wrote a poem about it and if I can locate it I will share it even though I said I wouldnt do that again..My one daughter moved and I no longer drive over that road and I am glad because my feelings were always so intense. Even remembering effects me so Thanks for sharing that ...anna

BaBi
July 3, 2006 - 08:41 am
Then, for the times I couldn't say what I wanted to say. My heart would break to bring up the painful circumstances in my life today and yesterday. I would cry. Maybe the tears would flow uncontrollably. Didn't my silence speak volumes? As Henry Lawson wrote,

"Do you think that I do not know?"


HATS, you have a way with words yourself.

Babi

annafair
July 3, 2006 - 09:23 am
I will post the poem I mentioned, It is not about the Revolutionary War but a poem about The Battle of the Wilderness , A battle of our Civil War, I think in some ways it is even more important than the Revolutionary War Here we were , having fought and won our right to be independent , against all odds, against the England , and for many that was the "Mother" country. And here we are now having won that war , not fighting against another country but fighting against ourselves. And in some ways today we are again polarized,differing in many ways but it would be wise to remember how far we have come. Those wars were not our last wars, and being human I suspect whoever will be writing poems a hundred years from now will still be writing about our wars, the worlds wars since each country seems intent on forgetting we are all HUMAN and life is hard enough without always thinking of what makes us different than praising what makes us the same. Human, Already I have heard firecrackers, and the flags are flying and parades are in the offing and people are celebrating a victory But it will always be a hollow victory if we allow our differences to separate us instead of reminding us how alike we are.

Here is this poem anna When I wrote this poem the years were correct since I wrote it in 1997
Battle of the Wilderness


One hundred thirty-three years,
Since cannons belched smoke,
Hurled iron balls against
Flesh and bones of men.
Not aliens, from some foreign land,
These men who fought their brothers;
Who peered through darkened skies;
Through misted, blood tinged clouds;
Seeing fear in each man’s eye.


Today, concrete sashes mark the edge
Where they fought and died.
Boxed it, to contain the spirits there.
Even on sunlit days when fields,
Serene, rest, their chores done;
A darker shadow hovers just above
The earth where horses neighed.
Forelimbs lifted high to avoid
The broken bodies, of those who
Came to defend their right to decide,
Whether we would be whole, or parts
Of a fledgling country’s pride!


A chill shivers through the visitor,
Creeps along the living flesh,
Feels the weight of past
Battles lost, and the men who
Paid the ultimate price.
Each right, according to his belief.


Years of rains have come and gone,
Sun has warmed the land.
Blood of heros, composted here,
Feed the grass and trees we see.
Scarred, and bruised, the land now
Rests, and keeps watch for US.


anna alexander
9/27/97
all rights reserved

hats
July 3, 2006 - 11:28 am
Your words have always been very insightful, to me, in any discussion. I look forward to sharing discussions with you. I am glad you are here at the Poetry Corner.

hats
July 3, 2006 - 11:53 am
Anna, I am not skipping your poem to make a comment to Babi. I just got home. So, I will come back and read your poem. I know you will have some special thoughts for July Fourth.

Happy Fourth of July to All!

Scrawler
July 3, 2006 - 12:03 pm
"...Accordingly on May 5 two of Lee's corps coming from the west ran into three Union corps moving south from the Rapidan [River]. For Lee this collision proved a bit premature, for Longstreet's corps had only recently returned from Tennesse and could not come up in time for this first day of the battle of the Wilderness. The Federals thus managed to get more than 70,000 men into action against fewer than 40,000 rebels. But the southerners knew the terrain and the Yankees' preponderance of troops produced only immobility in these dense, smoke-filled woods where soldiers could rarely see the enemy, units blundered the wrong way in the directionless jungle, friendly troops fired on each other by mistake, gaps in the opposing line went unexploited because unseen, while muzzle flashes and exploding shells set the underbush on fire to threaten wounded men with a firey death. Savage fighting surged back and forth near two road intersections that the bluecoats needed to hold in order to continue their passage southward. They held on and by dusk had gained a position to attack Lee's right.

...While the armies skirmished warily on May 7, Grant prepared to march around Lee's right during the night to seize the crossroads village of Spotsylvania a dozen miles to the south. If successful, this move would place the Union army closer to Richmond than the enemy and force Lee to fight or retreat. All day Union supply wagons and the reserve artillery moved to the rear, confirming the soldiers' weary expectation of retreat. After dark the blue divisions pulled out one by one. But instead of heading north they turned south. A mental sunburst brightened their minds. It was not "another Chancellorsville...another skedaddle" after all. "Our spirits rose," recalled one veteran who remembered this moment as a turning point of the war. Despite the terrors of the past three days and those to come, "we marched free. The men began to sing." For the first time in a Virginia campaign the Army of the Potomac stayed on the offensive after its initial battle." ~ "Battle Cry Of Freedom" ~ James M. McPherson

hats
July 3, 2006 - 01:59 pm
Anna, your poem and your comment are very moving. I will reread it again tonight and tomorrow on July Fourth. Then, I will place it in my favorites column. Looking forward to more poems by Henry Lawson and also, more poems by you, Anna.

annafair
July 4, 2006 - 01:44 am
Thanks so much for the post with the information about the Battle of the Wilderness I am always amazed by how little we sometimes know about our own country, Until I had driven that back way between my daughters I knew little about the battle , had no idea I would be driving through the land where the battle was fought. Because it affected me as I said I had to look it up and find out just what had transpired there. So it was good of you to post the information for all to read, But then you always open up the discussion here by giving us insight to what we are reading..I know everyone appreciates it as well. Thanks so much ..anna

annafair
July 4, 2006 - 02:07 am
I found a rather funny poem but I am beginning to realize what Henry Lawson is writing about is the way it was when he was growing up and living there. Because of my friendship with anneo I have learned so much about the area called the OUTBACK. And if it was harsh in Lawson's time it is no less harsh now. Modern conveniences and the ability to bring them to those who work and live there has given the people who live and work there a life that the early settlers could never imagined Still from my reading it is a harsh area beautful in tis own way I would think it takes a special kind of person to call it home. Here is my poem for today ..I am impressed with Lawson;s vocabulary and his ability to tell a story in poetic form. For some reason I can picture him. His mind always busy , recording what he sees and puts in down in poetry ..And in the year 2006 he can take us back to his time through the pictures his words paint.. anna

The Grog-an'-Grumble Steeplechase


Henry Lawson 1892


'Twixt the coastline and the border lay the town of Grog-an'-Grumble
In the days before the bushman was a dull 'n' heartless drudge,
An' they say the local meeting was a drunken rough-and-tumble,
Which was ended pretty often by an inquest on the judge.
An' 'tis said the city talent very often caught a tartar
In the Grog-an'-Grumble sportsman, 'n' returned with broken heads,
For the fortune, life, and safety of the Grog-an'-Grumble starter
Mostly hung upon the finish of the local thoroughbreds.


Pat M'Durmer was the owner of a horse they called the Screamer,
Which he called "the quickest shtepper 'twixt the Darling and the sea",
And I think it's very doubtful if the stomach-troubled dreamer
Ever saw a more outrageous piece of equine scenery;
For his points were most decided, from his end to his beginning,
He had eyes of different colour, and his legs they wasn't mates.
Pat M'Durmer said he always came "widin a flip of winnin'",
An' his sire had come from England, 'n' his dam was from the States.


Friends would argue with M'Durmer, and they said he was in error
To put up his horse the Screamer, for he'd lose in any case,
And they said a city racer by the name of Holy Terror
Was regarded as the winner of the coming steeplechase;
But he said he had the knowledge to come in when it was raining,
And irrevelantly mentioned that he knew the time of day,
So he rose in their opinion. It was noticed that the training
Of the Screamer was conducted in a dark, mysterious way.


Well, the day arrived in glory; 'twas a day of jubilation
With careless-hearted bushmen for a hundred miles around,
An' the rum 'n' beer 'n' whisky came in waggons from the station,
An' the Holy Terror talent were the first upon the ground.
Judge M'Ard – with whose opinion it was scarcely safe to wrestle –
Took his dangerous position on the bark-and-sapling stand:
He was what the local Stiggins used to speak of as a "wessel
Of wrath", and he'd a bludgeon that he carried in his hand.


"Off ye go!" the starter shouted, as down fell a stupid jockey –
Off they started in disorder – left the jockey where he lay –
And they fell and rolled and galloped down the crooked course and rocky,
Till the pumping of the Screamer could be heard a mile away.
But he kept his legs and galloped; he was used to rugged courses,
And he lumbered down the gully till the ridge began to quake:
And he ploughed along the siding, raising earth till other horses
An' their riders, too, were blinded by the dust-cloud in his wake.


From the ruck he'd struggled slowly – they were much surprised to find him
Close abeam of the Holy Terror as along the flat they tore –
Even higher still and denser rose the cloud of dust behind him,
While in more divided splinters flew the shattered rails before.
"Terror!" "Dead heat!" they were shouting – "Terror!" but the Screamer hung out
Nose to nose with Holy Terror as across the creek they swung,
An' M'Durmer shouted loudly, "Put yer toungue out! put yer tongue out!"
An ' the Screamer put his tongue out, and he won by half-a-tongue.

annafair
July 4, 2006 - 02:23 am
This short biography of Henry Lawson. It also tells about his mother and her works for women's suffrage .It shows how and why Henry Lawson became a poet. anna

http://home.eznet.net/~dminor/O&E9712.html

hats
July 4, 2006 - 07:33 am
Australia

hats
July 4, 2006 - 07:48 am
The Shame Of Going Back - by Henry Lawson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHEN you've come to make your fortune, and you haven't made your
salt,
And the reason of your failure isn't anybody's fault--
When you haven't got a billet, and the times are very slack,
There is nothing that can spur you like the shame of going back;
Crawling home with empty pockets,
Going back hard-up;
Oh! it's then you learn the meaning of "humiliation's cup".


When the place and you are strangers and you struggle all alone,
And you have a mighty longing for the town where you are known;
When your clothes are very shabby, and the future's very black,
There is nothing that can hurt you like the shame of going back.


When we've fought the battle bravely and are beaten to the wall,
'Tis the sneer of man, not conscience, that makes cowards of us
all;
And while you are returning, oh! your brain is on the rack,
And your heart is in the shadow of the shame of going back.


When a beaten man's discovered with a bullet in his brain,
They post-mortem him, and try him, and they say he was insane;
But it very often happens that he'd lately got the sack,
And his onward move was owing to the shame of going back.


Ah! my friend, you call it nonsense, and your upper lip is curled--
You have had no real trouble in your passage through the world;
But when fortune rounds upon you and the rain is on the track,
You will learn the bitter meaning of the shame of going back;
Going home with empty pockets,
Going home hard-up;
Oh! it's then you'll taste the poison in humiliation's cup.


When I moved to Tennessee with my husband, I remember always wanting to call home with good news. I didn't want my parents to worry. I remember not telling my mother that my husband was unemployed. She could hear the worry in my voice. She guessed that we were out of a job. So, I can identify with these lines in the poem. That feeling of wanting to hide the misfortunes and the days of shabbiness.

When the place and you are strangers and you struggle all alone,
And you have a mighty longing for the town where you are known;
When your clothes are very shabby, and the future's very black,
There is nothing that can hurt you like the shame of going back.

Alliemae
July 4, 2006 - 08:29 am
...it's only because this poet...this man...and his life...and the scenes and topics he writes about have left me not only speechless but breathless.

I loved the poetry of Pablo Neruda but I must say, with all due respect, for me...we've had the 'amuse bouche'...the appetizer...even the sometimes dizzying aperitif...

Well, my friends, get ready...with Henry Lawson, this 'meal' is the real deal!!

I don't mean to make light of the depths of Neruda--not at all, ever! In addition to his romantic and sentimental poetry he showed great substance and dedication.

And then...along came Henry Lawson. I wouldn't want to compare poets...I don't like comparatives or superlatives, they seem to me one of the greatest causes of enmity in all of society. Let's just say that July's poet seems 'my kind of thinker'...'my kind of guy'! The things that he finds important to express still me and sometimes even stun me.

I love all your posts and comments and I love the poems offered by Lawson and others; however, this discussion leaves me in a state of need to sit and take it all in, but I'm with you, so involved and with you in this discussion and wanted you all to know it. And I must add that all the links provided are making this discussion doubly a joy!

Alliemae

Scrawler
July 4, 2006 - 11:26 am
This is only the first stanza of this poem, but it reminded me of why we celebrate this day, July 4th:

We boast no more our bloodless flag, that rose from a
nation's slime;
Better a shred of a deep-dyed rag from the storms of olden time.
From grander clouds in our 'peaceful skies' than ever were there
before
I tell you the Star of the South shall rise - in the lurid clouds
of war.
It ever must be while blood is warm and the sons of men increase;
For ever the nations rose in storm, to rot in a deadly peace.
There come a point that we will not yield, no matter if right or
wrong,
And man will fight on the battle-field
while passion and pride our strong -
So long as he will not kiss the rod, and his stubborn spirit
sours,
And the scorn of Nature and curse of God are heavy on peace like
ours.

"In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

BaBi
July 4, 2006 - 01:14 pm
ANNAFAIR, I got such a lovely laugh out of reading about Screamer and the horse race. I'm still smiling.

HATS choice, "The Shame of Going Back", is such a moving contrast. Lawson is at ease with both humor and hard times. Or maybe you must hold on to humor to survive hard times.

SCRAWLER, I found the verse from "The Star of Australasia" very troubling. I am baffled by lines like, "For ever the nations rise in storm, to rot in a deadly peace." What does that mean? Or, :"And the scorn of Nature and curse of God are heavy on peace like ours." What "peace like ours" brings on 'the scorn of Nature and curse of God'. I confess myself to be quite lost. Can anyone clarify this poem?

I have a softer selection. I'll put it on a separate post.

Babi

BaBi
July 4, 2006 - 01:16 pm
THE SONG AND THE SIGH" 

The creek went down with a broken song, 'Neath the sheoaks high; The waters carried the song along, And the oaks a sigh.

The song and the sigh went winding by, Went winding down; Circling the foot of the mountain high, And the hillside brown.

They were hushed in the swamp of the Dead Man's Crime, Where the curlews cried; But they reached the river the self-same time, And there they died.

And the creek of life goes winding on, Wandering by; And bears forever, its course upon A song and a sigh.
 

Babi

annafair
July 5, 2006 - 06:44 am
He writes about things he knows and they are simple things and even if they are about another country they are also about things we can understand, Hats thanks so much for that link, I have put it in my favorites because if there is anything I love it is looking at scenery, In person preferably but if not than in magnificent pictures.

Was it Will Rogers who said I have never met a man I didnt like? I hope that is correct but I can paraphrase it and say I have never read a poet I didnt like. Each one is so different and each brings thier talent and shares it with us. If you have read the link I posted you know Lawson's life was not easy and poetry was his way out of being deaf, of being different. That he found humor in the life he led, that he found beauty in his surroundings, that he found pain as well tells me this was a man who LIVED his life, That it was troublesome and not always simple or good and he can still write at least says to me he made the best of what he had,.

Well I have found another poem I can relate to ..My whole life has been made of "lovable characters" an uncle who was called WILD BILL , a cowboy who only came home often enough to leave me another cousin, A uncle who was a wildcatter in the oil fields, A no nonsense aunt , a large woman who delighted me with her common sense, and a lifetime of people met who were characters for sure and lovable as well . hope you enjoy this poem..anna

The Lovable Characters
Henry Lawson 1917


I long for the streets but the Lord knoweth best,
For there I am never a saint;
There are lovable characters out in the West,
With humour heroic and quaint;
And, be it Up Country, or be it Out Back,
When I shall have gone to my Home,
I trust to be buried 'twixt River and Track
Where my lovable characters roam.

There are lovable characters drag through the scrub,
Where the Optimist ever prevails;
There are lovable characters hang round the pub,
There are lovable jokers at sales
Where the auctioneer's one of the lovable wags
(Maybe from his "order" estranged),
And the beer is on tap, and the pigs in the bags
Of the purchasing cockies are changed.


There were lovable characters out in the West,
Of fifty hot summers, or more,
Who could not be proved, when it came to the test,
Too old to be sent to the war;
They were all forty-five and were orphans, they said,
With no one to keep them, or keep;
And mostly in France, with the world's bravest dead,
Those lovable characters sleep.


I long for the streets, but the Lord knoweth best,
For there I am never a saint;
There are lovable characters out in the West,
With humour heroic and quaint
; And, be it Up Country, or be it Out Back,
When I shall have gone to my Home,
I trust to be buried 'twixt River and Track
Where my lovable characters roam.

MarjV
July 5, 2006 - 07:48 am
Such great links and poems. Enjoying lurking and reading this time around. Henry was a man of such diverse talent- his history poems and his poems that lean more toward the emotional like the one above with his loveablel characters. And "The Shame of Going Back" - wow! that is extremely true isn't it. And shame is such a deadly thing to deal with. Like Hats I remember times my husband lost jobs. It was hard enough - and then the shame tried to sneak in.

And then Lawson's short stories are great - read "The Drover's Wife" if you have time. It is right to the point of the women of the outback.

The Drover's Wife

~Marj

Scrawler
July 5, 2006 - 10:47 am
Babi, I may be wrong but I think Henry Lawson was talking about a peace where one nation gives into another nation in order to avoid a war. It reminds me of England and other Allied nations just before WWII when they gave into Hitler's wishes in order to avoid war. I believe it was called "Peace in our time." But was it really peace? Like I say I could be wrong but I think this is may have been what Lawson was talking about when he wrote: "And the scorn of Nature and curse of God are heavy on peace like ours."

Scrawler
July 5, 2006 - 11:03 am
Last stanza:

But the curse o'class distinctions from our shoulders shall be
hurled,
An' the influence of woman revolutionize the world;
There'll be higher education for the toilin' starvin' clown
An rich an' educated shall be educated down;
An' we all will meet amidships on this stout old earthly craft
An' there won't be any friction 'twixt the classes fore-'n'-aft.
We'll be brothers, fore-'n'-aft!
Yes, an' sisters, fore-'n'-aft! When the people work together, and there ain't no fore-'n'-aft.

Class Wars - throughout history there have always been class wars. The players may have changed throughout the centuries but they still continue even today. Will there ever be a time when ALL the people will work together and there won' be any "fore-'n'-aft"?.

BaBi
July 5, 2006 - 12:27 pm
SCRAWLER, that makes a great deal of sense. I went back and checked; the poem was written in 1895. Now, I need to do some research and see what was going on about that time. Something of the kind you describe must have happened, to make Lawson refer to 'a peace like ours'.

Babi

Jim in Jeff
July 5, 2006 - 03:53 pm
Near Australasia in 1894-95 was a major "Sino-Japanese War." Island nation of Japan won a more prominent reputation (China, less so).

Soon after came the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-5. My point is only that wars exist in almost all times. Lawson's "Star of Australasia," while likely inspired by events of his 1894 times, today can also be read as his statement about wars in general...I think.

I read "Star of Australasia" about exact same as Scrawler...a lament about a nation that, without fighting for itself, capitulates to another nation's rule, ways, and lores. IOW...I think Lawson is lamenting the major stances of some of today's "Peaceniks."

Overdue, here's a decent definition: Australasia is the area that includes Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, and the many smaller islands in the vicinity, most of which are the eastern part of Indonesia. The name was coined by Charles de Brosses in Histoire des navigations aux terres australes (1756). He derived it from the Latin for "south of Asia" and differentiated the area from Polynesia and the south east Pacific (Magellanica).

...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australasia

anneofavonlea
July 5, 2006 - 07:30 pm
war explanations, it always seem to Australians we are involved in other peoples wars, and I am sure America feels that way sometimes as well. Lawson was nothing, if not a poet of his times, amd was well able to read his peers.

The comment here is always well thought and informed, which pleases one.

Anneo

annafair
July 6, 2006 - 02:53 am
Not only the poetry of Henry Lawson but about Australia.. life doesnt get better than enjoying the poems of a poet and learning about the land and people he wrote about.

Today I found a rather long poem but chose it because it sounds so much like my Irish grandnother. I see her in her black silk dress , a shirtwaist style ,with black ruching on the collar and on the cuffs of the sleeves and adorning the "cap" she wore. All of her clothes were the same, only the color, the pattern and fabric different and each one had a matching cap. Of course in her home she also wore an apron over the dress .Re-reading this as I placed the brackets I had to smile for it surely sounds like my Little Grandma,

I feel I know Black Bonnet well .. anna

Black Bonnet
A day of seeming innocence,
A glorious sun and sky,
And, just above my picket fence,
Black Bonnet passing by.
In knitted gloves and quaint old dress,
Without a spot or smirch,
Her worn face lit with peacefulness,
Old Granny goes to church.


Her hair is richly white, like milk,
That long ago was fair --
And glossy still the old black silk
She keeps for "chapel wear";
Her bonnet, of a bygone style,
That long has passed away,
She must have kept a weary while
Just as it is to-day.


The parasol of days gone by --
Old days that seemed the best --
The hymn and prayer books carried high
Against her warm, thin breast;
As she had clasped -- come smiles come tears,
Come hardship, aye, and worse --
On market days, through faded years,
The slender household purse.


Although the road is rough and steep,
She takes it with a will,
For, since she hushed her first to sleep
Her way has been uphill.
Instinctively I bare my head
(A sinful one, alas!)
Whene'er I see, by church bells led,
Brave Old Black Bonnet pass.


For she has known the cold and heat
And dangers of the Track:
Has fought bush-fires to save the wheat
And little home Out Back.
By barren creeks the Bushman loves,
By stockyard, hut, and pen,
The withered hands in those old gloves
Have done the work of men.


They called it "Service" long ago
When Granny yet was young,
And in the chapel, sweet and low,
As girls her daughters sung.
And when in church she bends her head
(But not as others do)
She sees her loved ones, and her dead
And hears their voices too.


Fair as the Saxons in her youth,
Not forward, and not shy;
And strong in healthy life and truth
As after years went by:
She often laughed with sinners vain,
Yet passed from faith to sight --
God gave her beauty back again
The more her hair grew white.


She came out in the Early Days,
(Green seas, and blue -- and grey) --
The village fair, and English ways,
Seemed worlds and worlds away.
She fought the haunting loneliness
Where brooding gum trees stood;
And won through sickness and distress
As Englishwomen could.


By verdant swath and ivied wall
The congregation's seen --
White nothings where the shadows fall,
Black blots against the green.
The dull, suburban people meet
And buzz in little groups,
While down the white steps to the street
A quaint old figure stoops.


And then along my picket fence
Where staring wallflowers grow --
World-wise Old Age, and Common-sense! --
Black Bonnet, nodding slow.
But not alone; for on each side
A little dot attends
In snowy frock and sash of pride,
And these are Granny's friends.


To them her mind is clear and bright
, Her old ideas are new;
They know her "real talk" is right,
Her "fairy talk" is true.
And they converse as grown-ups may,
When all the news is told;
The one so wisely young to-day,
The two so wisely old.


At home, with dinner waiting there,
She smooths her hair and face,
And puts her bonnet by with care
And dons a cap of lace.
The table minds its p's and q's
Lest one perchance be hit
By some rare dart which is a part
Of her old-fashioned wit.


Her son and son's wife are asleep,
She puts her apron on --
The quiet house is hers to keep,
With all the youngsters gone.
There's scarce a sound of dish on dish
Or cup slipped into cup,
When left alone, as is her wish,
Black Bonnet "washes up."


Henry Lawson

hats
July 6, 2006 - 03:04 am
Anna, I really, really enjoyed 'Black Bonnet' by Henry Lawson. She is truly a special lady. I think all have loved a "Black Bonnet." I think of my Grandma Hattie. She began playing the piano in her eighties. As a child I rode a train to Florida from Philadelphia to see her. She cooked oatmeal every single morning for me. She must have felt oatmeal made a pretty nutritional meal.

I loved all the lines in this poem. I could see the lady in the poem in my mind. If I had to pick a favorite line or two, I would go with

They know her "real talk" is right,
Her "fairy talk" is true.


Anneo or others from Australia, how would you describe "fairy talk?"

Alliemae
July 6, 2006 - 05:53 am
Most definitely one of my favorites.

Thank you, anna!

MarjV
July 6, 2006 - 06:30 am
"Black Bonnet". What a poem! I could just picture each verse in my imagination.

MarjV
July 6, 2006 - 06:49 am
Ba Bi - you asked the other day if Australia also had a gold rush. Hope you saw the link I posted. If not here it is again. You can see how it coincided with the same in the USA

Australian Gold Rush

anneofavonlea
July 6, 2006 - 06:59 am
those of us who are fortunate have always had access to "fairy talk", from our grandmothers, the magical tales of past times that connect us back to our long agoes. It is something much needed in new countries I think, especially ones like early rural Australia, where there was a dirth of memorabilia, unlikes place like Europe where one was steeped in ones history.

I am blessed with a 10 year old grandaughter, who has a delightful habit of hanging on my everyword, when I rabbit on about times past in rural Australia, in a way that my adult children find tedious.

Anneo

hats
July 6, 2006 - 07:15 am
Anneo, thank you for sharing your story about "Fairy Talk." I love the words you use "rabbit on."

Babi, I have been rereading "A Song and a Sigh" by Henry Lawson each day. I love the calmness of the poem. I keep wondering whether this is a story poem about a "real" crime. I get the feeling only the water knows the truth of it all. Am I way off in my thinking? I would love to know what others think about this poem.

They were hushed in the swamp of the Dead Man's Crime,
Where the curlews cried;


And "Dead Man's Crime" is capitalized.

MarjV
July 6, 2006 - 07:49 am
I just read that one again. Something so terrible happened that "the song and the sigh" were hushed at the scene of that Crime. Wonderful poem..

hats
July 6, 2006 - 07:58 am
MarjV, thanks. I love that poem. It's a peacefulness about it. I like your words the best.

"Something so terrible happened that "the song and the sigh" were hushed at the scene of that Crime. "

I am glad Babi picked it.

annafair
July 6, 2006 - 08:29 am
Thanks to all for your posts and memories and helpful interpretations of the poems and Anneo for your explanation about fairy talk, Thank goodness for grandchildren who still think we are wonderful!

Well I have located another poem and it is describing the country there...and one thing I am admiring about Henry is his admiration for the women who had a tough life, I am not saying the men didnt but it seems to me the men had each other to talk to when they were out on the trail and the women didnt .and this was a time when there were no phones, etc A lonely HARSH life for all but for the women especially so. so here is his poem for today When I do the brackets so you can read it I read it too and what a harsh place he describes . It sounds as if he were searching for poets in the area and then tells why they would be hard pressed to write ..And I havent looked up lemon squashes but Anneo if you return can you tell us what it is ? sounds delighful on this hot day , Like lemonade perhaps.anna

Borderland


I am back from up the country -- very sorry that I went --
Seeking for the Southern poets' land whereon to pitch my tent;
I have lost a lot of idols, which were broken on the track --
Burnt a lot of fancy verses, and I'm glad that I am back.
Further out may be the pleasant scenes of which our poets boast,
But I think the country's rather more inviting round the coast --
Anyway, I'll stay at present at a boarding-house in town
Drinking beer and lemon-squashes, taking baths and cooling down.


Sunny plains! Great Scot! -- those burning wastes of barren soil and sand
With their everlasting fences stretching out across the land!
Desolation where the crow is! Desert! where the eagle flies,
Paddocks where the luny bullock starts and stares with reddened eyes;
Where, in clouds of dust enveloped, roasted bullock-drivers creep
Slowly past the sun-dried shepherd dragged behind his crawling sheep.
Stunted "peak" of granite gleaming, glaring! like a molten mass
Turned, from some infernal furnace, on a plain devoid of grass.


Miles and miles of thirsty gutters -- strings of muddy waterholes
In the place of "shining rivers" (walled by cliffs and forest boles).
"Range!" of ridgs, gullies, ridges, barren! where the madden'd flies --
Fiercer than the plagues of Egypt -- swarm about your blighted eyes!
Bush! where there is no horizon! where the buried bushman sees
Nothing. Nothing! but the maddening sameness of the stunted trees!
Lonely hut where drought's eternal -- suffocating atmosphere --
Where the God forgottcn hatter dreams of city-life and beer.


Treacherous tracks that trap the stranger, endless roads that gleam and glare,
Dark and evil-looking gullies -- hiding secrets here and there!
Dull, dumb flats and stony "rises," where the bullocks sweat and bake,
And the sinister "gohanna," and the lizard, and the snake.
Land of day and night -- no morning freshness, and no afternoon,
For the great, white sun in rising brings with him the heat of noon.
Dismal country for the exile, when the shades begin to fall
From the sad, heart-breaking sunset, to the new-chum, worst of all.


Dreary land in rainy weather, with the endless clouds that drift
O'er the bushman like a blanket that the Lord will never lift --
Dismal land when it is raining -- growl of floods and oh! the "woosh"
Of the rain and wind together on the dark bed of the bush --
Ghastly fires in lonely humpies where the granite rocks are pil'd
On the rain-swept wildernesses that are wildest of the wild.


Land where gaunt and haggard women live alone and work like men,
Till their husbands, gone a-droving, will return to them again --
Homes of men! if homes had ever such a God-forgotten place,
Where the wild selector's children fly before a stranger's face.
Home of tragedy applauded by the dingoes' dismal yell,
Heaven of the shanty-keeper -- fitting fiend for such a hell --
And the wallaroos and wombats, and, of course, the "curlew's call" --
And the lone sundowner tramping ever onward thro' it all!


I am back from up the country -- up the country where I went
Seeking for the Southern poets' land whereon to pitch my tent;
I have left a lot of broken idols out along the track,
Burnt a lot of fancy verses -- and I'm glad that I am back --
I believe the Southern poet's dream will not be realised
Till the plains are irrigated and the land is humanised.
I intend to stay at present -- as I said before -- in town
Drinking beer and lemon-squashes -- taking baths and cooling down.


Henry Lawson

annafair
July 6, 2006 - 08:45 am
here are two links about the curlews

http://www.users.bigpond.com/wildlifebb/projects/curlew/default.html

http://www.deh.gov.au/biodiversity/threatened/publications/tsd05bush-stone-curlew.html

Annie3
July 6, 2006 - 09:29 am
Too sad.

annafair
July 6, 2006 - 09:50 am
What is too sad?

Annie3
July 6, 2006 - 12:36 pm
The poetry of Henry Lawson.

BaBi
July 6, 2006 - 12:51 pm
MARJ, I did see the info. about the Australian gold rush during my research yesterday. It began very shortly after ours, I notice.

As to the timing of "The Star of Australasia", which Scootz gave us, and it's grim verses, I found that Australia was in the midst of a major depression during that period. I re-read the poem, and it actually sounds as though Lawson felt war was something young men wanted or needed, as oposed to the grimness of a failing country.

HATS, I don't doubt there is, or was, a swamp area called "Dead Man's Crime", and that there is a story behind the name. It would probably take a native Australian researcher to find out for us. (hint,hint)

Babi

anneofavonlea
July 6, 2006 - 06:35 pm
If you were an Aussie you would no doubt be a Paterson fan, as he had a joyful attitude to the bush, your right though Lawson can be very sad, but then I'm always a sucker for a sob story, lol.

Anneo

anneofavonlea
July 6, 2006 - 06:50 pm
The Geebung Polo Club

Andrew Barton ‘Banjo’ Paterson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IT was somewhere up the country, in a land of rock and scrub,
That they formed an institution called the Geebung Polo Club.
They were long and wiry natives from the rugged mountain side,
And the horse was never saddled that the Geebungs couldn’t ride;
But their style of playing polo was irregular and rash—
They had mighty little science, but a mighty lot of dash:
And they played on mountain ponies that were muscular and strong,
Though their coats were quite unpolished, and their manes and tails were long.
And they used to train those ponies wheeling cattle in the scrub:
They were demons, were the members of the Geebung Polo Club.


It was somewhere down the country, in a city’s smoke and steam,
That a polo club existed, called “The Cuff and Collar Team”.
As a social institution ’twas a marvellous success,
For the members were distinguished by exclusiveness and dress.
They had natty little ponies that were nice, and smooth, and sleek,
For their cultivated owners only rode ’em once a week.
So they started up the country in pursuit of sport and fame,
For they meant to show the Geebungs how they ought to play the game;
And they took their valets with them—just to give their boots a rub
Ere they started operations on the Geebung Polo Club.

Now my readers can imagine how the contest ebbed and flowed,
When the Geebung boys got going it was time to clear the road;
And the game was so terrific that ere half the time was gone
A spectator’s leg was broken—just from merely looking on.
For they waddied one another till the plain was strewn with dead,
While the score was kept so even that they neither got ahead.
And the Cuff and Collar Captain, when he tumbled off to die,
Was the last surviving player—so the game was called a tie.

Then the Captain of the Geebungs raised him slowly from the ground,
Though his wounds were mostly mortal, yet he fiercely gazed around;
There was no one to oppose him—all the rest were in a trance,
So he scrambled on his pony for his last expiring chance,
For he meant to make an effort to get victory to his side;
So he struck at goal—and missed it—then he tumbled off and died.

. . . . . By the old Campaspe River, where the breezes shake the grass,
There’s a row of little gravestones that the stockmen never pass,
For they bear a crude inscription saying, “Stranger, drop a tear,
For the Cuff and Collar players and the Geebung boys lie here.”
And on misty moonlit evenings, while the dingoes howl around,
You can see their shadows flitting down that phantom polo ground;
You can hear the loud collisions as the flying players meet,
And the rattle of the mallets, and the rush of ponies’ feet,
Till the terrified spectator rides like blazes to the pub—
He’s been haunted by the spectres of the Geebung Polo Club.

annafair
July 6, 2006 - 07:03 pm
They all ended up dead!! but I have to admit to being a bit odd for I did find it funny in a gruesome sort of way!!

anneofavonlea
July 6, 2006 - 07:04 pm
Saint Peter Henry Lawson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOW, I think there is a likeness ’Twixt St. Peter’s life and mine,
For he did a lot of trampin’ Long ago in Palestine.
He was ‘union’ when the workers First began to organise,
And—I’m glad that old St. Peter Keeps the gate of Paradise.
When the ancient agitator And his brothers carried swags,
I’ve no doubt he very often Tramped with empty tucker-bags;
And I’m glad he’s Heaven’s picket, For I hate explainin’ things,
And he’ll think a union ticket Just as good as Whitely King’s.


He denied the Saviour’s union, Which was weak of him, no doubt;
But perhaps his feet was blistered And his boots had given out.
And the bitter storm was rushin’ On the bark and on the slabs,
And a cheerful fire was blazin’, And the hut was full of ‘scabs.’


. . . . . When I reach the great head-station— Which is somewhere ‘off the track’—
I won’t want to talk with angels Who have never been out back;
They might bother me with offers Of a banjo—meanin’ well—
And a pair of wings to fly with, When I only want a spell.
I’ll just ask for old St. Peter, And I think, when he appears,
I will only have to tell him That I carried swag for years.
‘I’ve been on the track,’ I’ll tell him, ‘An’ I done the best I could,’
And he’ll understand me better Than the other angels would.


He won’t try to get a chorus Out of lungs that’s worn to rags,
Or to graft the wings on shoulders That is stiff with humpin’ swags.
But I’ll rest about the station Where the work-bell never rings,
Till they blow the final trumpet And the Great Judge sees to things.

annafair
July 6, 2006 - 07:13 pm
Unlike writers who usually use their imagination and write about what their minds can make up I think poets for the most part stick to what they know, what they see, and how it makes them feel.

When we did Mary Oliver we found her poetry rather gentle for she spent her time looking at the world around her,. the forests, ponds, birds and trees and found just the words to take us with her, Henry is taking us with him and Lordy does he paint what it is he sees, When I read borderland I could SEE what he described and wondered why anyone would want to live there. Any Australians would like to tell us why? And has the area improved since Henry Lawson died?

I know some of the pictures are wild but wonderful in their own way,And some so breataking you feel you would like to go someday. Thanks anneo for posting that one too and I remind everyone again WE ARE NOT PICKY HERE if anyone has a poem they like it doesnt have to be by the current poet of the month ..we will welcome it as well. SO annie3 if you know one you would like to share please do ..we will love it , read it and share how it makes us feel And who said they didnt like to make comparisions and we dont ..each poet brings us something special and we appreciate whatever gift they give. anna

annafair
July 6, 2006 - 07:21 pm
Well I havent read that one yet but I can see Henry sort of smiling as he put those words down and sort of wondered if it would give some folks a "fit" And I loved the one I posted about the steeplechase and the horse who won by a tongue That one tickled me ..it is after 10 PM here and I have an 8:30 AM doctor's appointment so I guess I will sign off for tonight ...but thanks to all the posts and the poems this night ..loves ya' all anna

Annie3
July 6, 2006 - 07:55 pm
It's good to get a bit out of my poetry 'comfort zone'. Some of my favorites are a little unusual as well. I liked those poems Anneo and thank you for posting them. And so sweet to run across you again.

anneofavonlea
July 6, 2006 - 09:26 pm
Gald you liked, do post some of your "odd" favourites. Now that she has gone off to bed I can tell you our Annafair is a little "odd". LOL

Anneo

Alliemae
July 7, 2006 - 07:25 am
anneo your poem was the first I saw this morning and oh, did it make my day.

I sometimes think that God must love reverent irreverence...seems after seeing the world and the people in it and some of the way we handle things God would have to be a little 'tongue-in-cheek' also...and have a very, very good sense of humor.

I figure it this way...if God didn't have a sense of humor, neither would we, right?

Alliemae

MarjV
July 7, 2006 - 09:48 am
IK thought the "Polo Club" quite humorous. He painted such a word scene.

I like poetry sad, angry, humorous, happy - whatever the poet wants to say. I don't think we should keep from posting the whole array of feelinngs.

~Marj

annafair
July 7, 2006 - 12:21 pm
I found a poem I liked ..although I havent read one I didnt ..When I read Lawson's bio I think how hard it must have been to be deaf and always being alone ..even in a crowd. It seems to me his sad poems have a bit of humor and his funny poems a bit of a sigh. Here is one Actually I admire his ability to find positive things where most would dwell on the negative. Who wrote or sang a song that went "Pick yourself UP , Dust yourself Off and Start all over again "To me that seems to be what Henry is saying...anna

After All


The brooding ghosts of Australian night have gone from the bush and town;
My spirit revives in the morning breeze,
though it died when the sun went down;
The river is high and the stream is strong,
and the grass is green and tall,
And I fain would think that this world of ours is a good world after all.


The light of passion in dreamy eyes, and a page of truth well read,
The glorious thrill in a heart grown cold of the spirit I thought was dead,
A song that goes to a comrade's heart, and a tear of pride let fall --
And my soul is strong! and the world to me is a grand world after all!


Let our enemies go by their old dull tracks,
and theirs be the fault or shame
(The man is bitter against the world who has only himself to blame);
Let the darkest side of the past be dark, and only the good recall;
For I must believe that the world, my dear, is a kind world after all.


It well may be that I saw too plain, and it may be I was blind;
But I'll keep my face to the dawning light,
though the devil may stand behind!
Though the devil may stand behind my back, I'll not see his shadow fall,
But read the signs in the morning stars of a good world after all.


Rest, for your eyes are weary, girl -- you have driven the worst away --
The ghost of the man that I might have been is gone from my heart to-day;
We'll live for life and the best it brings till our twilight shadows fall;
My heart grows brave, and the world, my girl, is a good world after all.


Henry Lawson

Scrawler
July 7, 2006 - 01:47 pm
To me I write poetry and stories based on emotion. It really doesn't matter what the object of my "affection" is at the time. What really matters is how I feel about "IT."

When the Children Come Home

One a lonely selection far out in the West
An old woman works all the day without rest
And she croons, as she toils 'neath the sky's glassy dome.
'Sure I'll keep the ould place till the childer come home.'

She mends all the fences, she grubs, and she ploughs,
She drives the old horse and she milks all the cows,
And she sings to herself as she thatches the stack,
'Sure I'll keep the ould place till the childer come back.'

It is five weary years since her old husband died;
And oft as he lay on his deathbed he sighed
'Sure one man can bring up ten children, he can,
An' it's strange that ten sons cannot keep one old man.'

Whenever the scowling old sundowners come.
And cunningly ask if the master's at home.
'Be off,' she replies, 'with your blarney and cant.
Or I'll can my son Andy; he's workin' beyant.'

'Git out,' she replies, though she trembles with fear,
For she lives all alone and no neighbours are near.
But she says to herself, when she's like to despond,
That the boys are at work in the paddock beyond.

Ah, none of her children need follow the plough,
And some have grown rich in the city ere now;
Yet she says: 'They might come when the shearing is done,
And I'll keep the ould place if it's only one.'

~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

I can relate to this old woman living alone. I hated to give up my home in California. But after my husband and son died and my daughter was living back East, it really got to much for me to keep. But still I would of liked to keep the 'ould place if - only - for one.'

MarjV
July 7, 2006 - 04:40 pm
I really enjoyed "After All". And this line intrigued me: Though the devil may stand behind my back, I'll not see his shadow fall,

Reminds me of something somewhere but I just can't get hold of it.

MarjV
July 7, 2006 - 04:45 pm
This last verse of the "childer" poem is mighty sad. You know those children are not coming to see mom. What a tough old gal he wrote about - there must have been many women in that situation.

Ah, none of her children need follow the plough,
And some have grown rich in the city ere now;
Yet she says: 'They might come when the shearing is done,
And I'll keep the ould place if it's only one.'

anneofavonlea
July 7, 2006 - 05:38 pm
on the land reminds me of a dear 83 year old,who spent her early years either droving or living on out stations, without refrigeration, water or any of lifes mod cons.

She now lives alone in a gorgeous pensioner unit in Quilpie, but has a reputation for being difficult and crusty, even unappreciative. She has my sympathy because at least I have some small empathy with the lonliness she felt, having lived alone in the west for many years,in the early years of my marriage.

It seems to me Lawson understood her, (read the Drovers wife in his prose collection), wheras Banjo Paterson rather romanticised the lifestyle, and mostly saw it from the point of view of a man. The Australian bush is after all "mans country", as the women were so alone, and even after having children were forced to send them to boarding school, which is a singularly heartbreaking experience.

My husband and I both now live in our preferred area, he can come to the city in small doses, and I go to the bush regularly as well, and it easy to enjoy both lifestyles, whilst only really being at home in one of them.

Allie glad you liked the irreverence, thats a singularly Australian virtue, which can sometimes be a little irritating, but helps one see the humour in serious situations.

Anna your odd in a nice way.

Anneo

Anneo

BaBi
July 7, 2006 - 08:01 pm
Anne, I enjoyed the humorous poems so much. Isn't "Geebung" an elegant name? And since I am reasonably sure the wholesale demise of both teams was strictly tongue in cheek, I don't let that hinder my grin at all.

In the next poem, I loved the understanding forbearance toward St. Peter's denial. This was a man who knew what it was to stand with blistered feet, seeking the warmth of a fire, and fearful of those all around him. The lines speak of generosity of spirit.

He denied the Saviour’s union, Which was weak of him, no doubt; But perhaps his feet was blistered And his boots had given out. And the bitter storm was rushin’ On the bark and on the slabs, And a cheerful fire was blazin’, And the hut was full of ‘scabs.’

MARJV, the line that came to my mind was: "Get thee behind me, Satan!" I'm sure you'll recall where that came from. You probably have some other poem in mind, tho'. Let us know if you recall what it was. I'm curious.

Babi

hats
July 8, 2006 - 01:37 am
"Let the darkest side of the past be dark, and only the good recall; For I must believe that the world, my dear, is a kind world after all."

This is a great poem. If I lived in an unhappy past everyday, I would simply give up and want to die. My only way to keep going is to think of the good times. I had a friend who called that a "convenient memory." Maybe a "convenient memory" isn't a bad thing.

hats
July 8, 2006 - 01:42 am
This is another great one. I smiled and laughed a bit as I read it. Now I'm not afraid of meeing St. Peter. He's just like me. I can't sing behind a pole. Believe it or not my shoulders are stiff. St. Peter and I can have a laugh or two. This is another goody poem.

He won’t try to get a chorus Out of lungs that’s worn to rags,
Or to graft the wings on shoulders That is stiff with humpin’ swags.
But I’ll rest about the station Where the work-bell never rings,
Till they blow the final trumpet And the Great Judge sees to things.

hats
July 8, 2006 - 01:51 am
This whole poem touched me. These lines brought home a truth. If so many of us have brought up so many children, how come it's so hard for those five, eight, ten children to take care of one or two of us? It makes you wonder. I never thought of this subject in this way. Why should any parent in a nursing home or hospital not have a visitor?

It is five weary years since her old husband died;
And oft as he lay on his deathbed he sighed
'Sure one man can bring up ten children, he can,
An' it's strange that ten sons cannot keep one old man.'

anneofavonlea
July 8, 2006 - 03:38 am
Oft in the stilly night
Ere slumber's chain has bound me,
Fond memory brings the light
Of other days around me:
The smiles, the tears
Of boyhood's year's,
The words of love then spoken;
The eyes that shone,
Now dimmed and gone,
The cheerful hearts now broken!

Thus in the stilly night
Ere slumber's chain has bound me,
Sad memory brings the light
Of other days around me.

When I remember all
The friends so linked together
I've seen around me fall
Like leaves in wintry weather,
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled
Whose garlands dead,
And all but he departed.

Thus in the stilly night
Ere slumber's chain has bound me,
Sad memory brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas More

Not sure why I posted this except that of late it keeps coming in to my head, it was another of those rote learned ones from school days, that haunt the mind.

Anneo

hats
July 8, 2006 - 03:50 am
Anneo, The "stilly night," I have experienced it. I am glad you posted it. It strikes home.

annafair
July 8, 2006 - 06:55 am
Thanks to all for the poems and comments I dont think I can add a word because you have caught the same lines and think the same way, Anneo thanks for that poem I think we all have stilly nights when our memories creep in and remind us of our life's journey It really reminded me when I ill in May and could not sleep by mind went back to my childhood days, and all the memories I keep ...

Henry's life was really bleak , they were poor, he became deaf and in some ways that made him an outcast ( and since my hearing is going I surely know how that is) I think one reason Lawson's poems resonate with us is while he is writing about his country the subjects and thoughts apply to all,

Here is my poem for today, The man in the poem is trying to honor his best friend and shows he cares by riding everywhere to let others know his friend is dead. His words are heard and what he asked for was given AND then it was given to him also because he had made the effort to honor his friend others gave him honor. I know that a great heart is recognized and what we have in this poem is a story about people with great hearts. anna PS there is a place called Talbragar and it is also the name of a river in Australia. Lawson's poems are also listed under COWBOY POETS in Australia and we have an online link to today's Cowboy Poets on line as well. Seems everyone enjoys Cowboy Poets and thier poems... By the way when I read this poem out loud because that is what I do . I could almost feel the anxiety of Ben Duggan and the rhythmn of his ride....

Ben Duggan


Jack Denver died on Talbragar when Christmas Eve began,
And there was sorrow round the place, for Denver was a man;
Jack Denver's wife bowed down her head -- her daughter's grief was wild,
And big Ben Duggan by the bed stood sobbing like a child.
But big Ben Duggan saddled up, and galloped fast and far,
To raise the longest funeral ever seen on Talbragar.


By station home
And shearing shed
Ben Duggan cried, `Jack Denver's dead!
Roll up at Talbragar!'


He borrowed horses here and there, and rode all Christmas Eve,
And scarcely paused a moment's time the mournful news to leave;
He rode by lonely huts and farms, and when the day was done
He turned his panting horse's head and rode to Ross's Run.
No bushman in a single day had ridden half so far
Since Johnson brought the doctor to his wife at Talbragar.


By diggers' camps
Ben Duggan sped --
At each he cried, `Jack Denver's dead!
Roll up at Talbragar!'


That night he passed the humpies of the splitters on the ridge,
And roused the bullock-drivers camped at Belinfante's Bridge;
And as he climbed the ridge again the moon shone on the rise;
The soft white moonbeams glistened in the tears that filled his eyes;
He dashed the rebel drops away -- for blinding things they are --
But 'twas his best and truest friend who died on Talbragar.


At Blackman's Run
Before the dawn,
Ben Duggan cried, `Poor Denver's gone!
Roll up at Talbragar!'


At all the shanties round the place they'd heard his horse's tramp,
He took the track to Wilson's Luck, and told the diggers' camp;
But in the gorge by Deadman's Gap the mountain shades were black,
And there a newly-fallen tree was lying on the track --
He saw too late, and then he heard the swift hoof's sudden jar,
And big Ben Duggan ne'er again rode home to Talbragar.


`The wretch is drunk,
And Denver's dead --
A burning shame!' the people said
Next day at Talbragar.


For thirty miles round Talbragar the boys rolled up in strength,
And Denver had a funeral a good long mile in length;
Round Denver's grave that Christmas day rough bushmen's eyes were dim --
The western bushmen knew the way to bury dead like him;
But some returning homeward found, by light of moon and star,
Ben Duggan dying in the rocks, five miles from Talbragar.


They knelt around,
He raised his head
And faintly gasped, `Jack Denver's dead,
Roll up at Talbragar!'


But one short hour before he died he woke to understand,
They told him, when he asked them, that the funeral was `grand';
And then there came into his eyes a strange victorious light,
He smiled on them in triumph, and his great soul took its flight.
And still the careless bushmen tell by tent and shanty bar
How Duggan raised a funeral years back on Talbragar.


And far and wide
When Duggan died,
The bushmen of the western side
Rode in to Talbragar.


Henry Lawson

MarjV
July 8, 2006 - 08:35 am
"Thus in the stilly night
Ere slumber's chain has bound me,
Sad memory brings the light
Of other days around me. "

Thanks, Anneo for that Moore poem. These are haunting lines that affect us who are older more than youngster ages. It's happened to me and sometimes even during the day something I see.hear or smell will bring back a memory of lost times. Even tho they were happy then sometimes seem lost/sad.

----------------------------

Babi- that is probably what was in my mind was the line from scripture of "get thee behind me Satan." Matthew 16:23,Mark 8:33 & Luke 4:8. Then there is the Irish blessing that ends >May you get to Heaven a half hour before the Devil knows you're dead.

Scrawler
July 8, 2006 - 10:44 am
Isn't that what Christ said in the wilderness when He was tempted by the Devil?

Past Carin'

Now up and down the siding brown
The great black crows are flyin'.
And down below the spur, I know,
Another 'milker's dyin';
The crops have withered from the ground,
The tank's clay bed is glarin'.
But from my heart no tear nor sound,
For I have gone past carin'-
Past worryin' or carin'.
Past feelin' aught or carin',
But from my heart no tear nor sound,
For I have gone past carin'.

Through Death and Trouble, turn about,
Through hopeless desolation,
Through flood and fever, fire and drought,
And slavery and starvation;
Through childbirth, sickness, hurt, and blight,
And slavery and starvation;
Through childbirth, sickness, hurt, and blight,
And nervousness an' scarin',
Through bein' left alone at night,
I've got to be past carin',
Past feelin' and past carin';
Through city cheats and neighbour's spite,
I've come to be past carin'.

Our first child took, in days like these,
A cruel week in dyin'.
All day upon her father's knees,
Or on my poor breast lyin';
The tears we shed - the prayers we said
Were awful, wild - despairin'!
I've pulled three through, and buried two
Since then - and I'm past carin'.
I've grown to be past carin',
Past worryin' and wearin';
Since then, and I'm past carin'.

'Twas ten years first, then came the worst,
All for a dusty clearin',
I thought I thought my heart would burst
When first my man went shearin';
He's drovin' in the great North-west,
I don't know how he's farin';
For I, the one that loved him best,
I've grown to be past carin'
Past lookin' for or carin';
The girl that waited long ago,
Has lived to be past carin'.

My eyes are dry, I cannot cry,
I've got no heart for breakin',
But where it was in days gone by,
A dull and empty achin',
My last boy ran away from me,
I know my temper's wearin',
But now I only wish to be
Beyond all signs of carin'.
Past wearyin' or carin',
Past feelin' and despairin';
And now I only wish to be
Beyond all signs of carin'.

~ "In the Days when the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

I see this as a very sad poem. Once again Henry Lawson has given us a glimpse of what the women in his time period went through. I can certainly relate to losing a child and waiting for a husband to come back. And yet I can't help wonder what is "beyond all signs of carin'" except death.

BaBi
July 8, 2006 - 11:49 am
Ah, MARJ, I am persuaded no one can say a thing like the Irish! What can be more lovely than the Irish blessing:

An Old Irish Blessing  
May the road rise up to meet you. 
May the wind always be at your back. 
May the sun shine warm upon your face, 
and rains fall soft upon your fields. 
And until we meet again, 
May God hold you in the palm of His hand.


Or this one:

A Blessing for a Friend  
Wishing you a rainbow 
For sunlight after showers— 
Miles and miles of Irish smiles 
For golden happy hours— 
Shamrocks at your doorway 
For luck and laughter too, 
And a host of friends that never ends 
Each day your whole life through.
 

Babi

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 8, 2006 - 01:04 pm
Birthdays today - 1621 - Jean de la Fontaine, French poet - everything this man writes seems to be bawdy or more... here is the cleanest I could find and the shortest I could find...

The Two Friends
AXIOCHUS, a handsome youth of old,
And Alcibiades, (both gay and bold,)
So well agreed, they kept a beauteous belle,
With whom by turns they equally would dwell.

IT happened, one of them so nicely played,
The fav'rite lass produced a little maid,
Which both extolled, and each his own believed,
Though doubtless one or t'other was deceived.

BUT when to riper years the bantling grew,
And sought her mother's foot-steps to pursue,
Each friend desired to be her chosen swain,
And neither would a parent's name retain.

SAID one, why brother, she's your very shade;
The features are the same-:-your looks pervade.
Oh no, the other cried, it cannot be
Her chin, mouth, nose, and eyes, with your's agree;
But that as 'twill, let me her favours win,
And for the pleasure I will risk the sin.
La Fontaine

And our other birthday is an American poet I had not heard of - his long poem Ode to Hesitation is what he is best known for however, here is a short poem by William V Moody, - 1869

FADED PICTURES
by: William Vaughn Moody (1869-1910)
ONLY two patient eyes to stare
Out of the canvas. All the rest--
The warm green gown, the small hands pressed
Light in the lap, the braided hair

That must have made the sweet low brow
So earnest, centuries ago,
When some one saw it change and glow--
All faded! Just the eyes burn now.

I dare say people pass and pass
Before the blistered little frame,
And dingy work without a name
Stuck in behind its square of glass.

But I, well, I left Raphael
Just to come drink these eyes of hers,
To think away the stains and blurs
And make all new again and well.

Only, for tears my head will bow,
Because there on my heart's last wall,
Scarce one tint left to tell it all,
A picture keeps its eyes, somehow.

Annie3
July 8, 2006 - 01:23 pm
I like Babi's blessings. The others dwell on sorrow and sadness and what's the point in that. I can't fix anything about the days gone by, best forgotten I think. Although, to each his own I guess. Must be that some need to borrow sorrow.

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 8, 2006 - 01:55 pm
Annie I do not think you ever forget sorrow - in fact I find most young people would like to forget sorrow - however, I think sorrow is one of the experiences of life that is just as important as joy -

We think nothing or conjuring up our memory of a joy filled day and so why not a day filled with sorrow - I find older folks are not as afraid to take time for sorrow without all the cliché - Oh I am so sorry - grrrr - I know - they do not know what else to say and they are trying to be nice - it is just such a platitude - I would rather they have the courage to look someone in the eye and ask if they are still hurting and can they tell something about the person or source of their sorrow... ah so...

annafair
July 8, 2006 - 02:32 pm
Because it weighs heavy..Joy a light little thing but both are part of life Henry Lawson wrote from where he stood, Poor, deaf , given to drinking ,and I am sure too often dispair He is not an easy poet but still even though he speaks of places I have never been or even heard of I find often he catches me and makes me think my thoughts ..I rather like the following one ..I love the names of the places that he writes about. Makes me want to find some novels and some stories of Australia when it was young..Any Australians want to tell me where to find them..? anna PS I just threw some slacks in the trash because they were worn and needed to GO!When I read Lawson I often get the feel he really had a sense of humor. Also I get the feeling that he might have written his poems because his buddies would ask Do you have new one Henry? They just poured out of him and he gave them to read without engineering them. One of my professors who is published and well known here said one of her poems she rewrote 500 times..She didnt seem to be kidding but I dont see Henry doing that What we see is what he wrote and he never changed a word of it ..and so it isnt polished but just the poem from the heart of this hard luck man ..but I see him smiling when he wrote this one..IMHO anna

When Your Pants Begin to Go


When you wear a cloudy collar and a shirt that isn't white,
And you cannot sleep for thinking how you'll reach to-morrow night,
You may be a man of sorrows, and on speaking terms with Care,
And as yet be unacquainted with the Demon of Despair;
For I rather think that nothing heaps the trouble on your mind
Like the knowledge that your trousers badly need a patch behind.


I have noticed when misfortune strikes the hero of the play,
That his clothes are worn and tattered in a most unlikely way;
And the gods applaud and cheer him while he whines and loafs around,
And they never seem to notice that his pants are mostly sound;
But, of course, he cannot help it, for our mirth would mock his care,
If the ceiling of his trousers showed the patches of repair.


You are none the less a hero if you elevate your chin
When you feel the pavement wearing through the leather, sock, and skin;
You are rather more heroic than are ordinary folk
If you scorn to fish for pity under cover of a joke;
You will face the doubtful glances of the people that you know;
But -- of course, you're bound to face them when your pants begin to go.


If, when flush, you took your pleasures -- failed to make a god of Pelf,
Some will say that for your troubles you can only thank yourself --
Some will swear you'll die a beggar, but you only laugh at that,
While your garments hand together and you wear a decent hat;
You may laugh at their predictions while your soles are wearing low,
But -- a man's an awful coward when his pants begin to go.


Though the present and the future may be anything but bright,
It is best to tell the fellows that you're getting on all right,
And a man prefers to say it -- 'tis a manly lie to tell,
For the folks may be persuaded that you're doing very well;
But it's hard to be a hero, and it's hard to wear a grin,
When your most important garment is in places very thin.


Get some sympathy and comfort from the chum who knows you best,
That your sorrows won't run over in the presence of the rest;
There's a chum that you can go to when you feel inclined to whine,
He'll declare your coat is tidy, and he'll say: `Just look at mine!'
Though you may be patched all over he will say it doesn't show,
And he'll swear it can't be noticed when your pants begin to go.


Brother mine, and of misfortune! times are hard, but do not fret,
Keep your courage up and struggle, and we'll laugh at these things yet,
Though there is no corn in Egypt, surely Africa has some --
Keep your smile in working order for the better days to come!
We shall often laugh together at the hard times that we know,
And get measured by the tailor when our pants begin to go.


Now the lady of refinement, in the lap of comfort rocked,
Chancing on these rugged verses, will pretend that she is shocked.
Leave her to her smelling-bottle; 'tis the wealthy who decide
That the world should hide its patches 'neath the cruel look of pride;
And I think there's something noble, and I swear there's nothing low,
In the pride of Human Nature when its pants begin to go.


Henry Lawson

anneofavonlea
July 8, 2006 - 06:41 pm
How would we ever know joy. To lose a child you first have to have a child, and it seems to me that tears can sometimes clear the mind just as well as laughter.I often wonder if todays depression riddled society isn't somehow a result of not openly acknowledging pain and sorrow as it happens

Anna, I realy like the pants needing a patch poem, which is surely tongue in cheek, my grandparents often reminded me of their embarassment wearing under garments made from ANCHOR rolled flour bags, as it was sturdy calico, and useful to the poor, but of course was printed permanently. In todays society of course patches are commonplace, even mandatory. "Tis a wonderful world"

Barbara, you have sent me off on a mission, what interesting poetry.I need to read more.

Anneo

Alliemae
July 9, 2006 - 09:15 am
...if todays depression riddled society isn't somehow a result of not openly acknowledging pain and sorrow as it happens." (anneofavonlea)

Inciteful...and I bet there's a lot of truth in that.

annafair, truly, truly loved "When Your Pants Begin to Go" especially...

"And I think there's something noble, and I swear there's nothing low,
In the pride of Human Nature when its pants begin to go."


What I continue to find deeply 'noble' in Henry Lawson is his ability to translate even the meanest subjects (by some opinions perhaps) into things of great human dignity.

During the depression my dad had to wear his Aunt Hilda's shoes in order to go to school. Not easy for a young highschooler...my dad had great dignity, of the type of Henry Lawson and Mark Twain and Henry David Thoreau.

Have been away for a few days...must check back now and see all I've missed. Do know I missed you folks and Lawson, that's for sure!

Alliemae

Scrawler
July 9, 2006 - 09:17 am
The colours of the setting sun
Withdrew across the Western land -
He raised the sliprails, one by one
And shot them home with trembling hand;
Her brown hands clung - her face grew pale -
Ah! quivering chin and eyes that brim!-
One quick, fierce kiss across the rail.
And, Good-bye, Mary!' 'Good-bye, Jim!'
Oh, he rides hard to race the pain
Who rides from love, who rides from home;
But he rides slowly home again,
Whose heart has learnt to love and roam.

A hand upon the horse's mane,
And one foot in the stirrup set.
And stooping back to kiss again.
With 'Good-bye, Mary! don't you fret
When I come back' - he laughed for her-
'We do not know how soon 'twill be:
I'll whistle as I round the spur-
You let the sliprails down for me.'

She gasped for sudden loss of hope,
As, with a backward wave to her,
He cantered down the grassy slope
And swiftly round the dark'ning spur.
Black-pencilled panels standing high,
And darkness fading into stars,
And blurring fast against the sky,
A faint white form beside the bars.

And often at the set of sun,
In winter bleak and summer brown,
She'd steal across the little run,
And shyly let the sliprails down.
And listen there when darkness shut
The nearer spur in slience deep;
And when they called her from the hut
Steal home and cry herself to sleep.

[Some editions have four more lines here.]
And he rides hard to dull the pain
Who rides from one that loves him best;
And he rides slowly back again,
Whose restless heart must rove for rest.

~"In the Days When the World was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

Lawson has a way of grabbing my emotion and twisting it until I want to cry stop. He knew how to to take a relationship between men and women and create a story-poem out of it. This one really touched me deeply.

BaBi
July 9, 2006 - 09:17 am
Sorrow is often remembered because it weighs heavy..Joy a light little thing ...

Anna, how true, and so well said. Thank you for that bit.

Babi

hats
July 9, 2006 - 09:32 am
Babi, I agree. Scrawler your comment took my breath away.

"Lawson has a way of grabbing my emotion and twisting it until I want to cry stop."

annafair
July 9, 2006 - 10:07 am
Can the next one be as good? Each poet has answered YES in my own way. I concur with your comment Scrawler sometimes I have passed a poem of his by because it made me weep ..I knew what he meant and it just seemed I could not post it while I was so moved ..

I love the poem I chose today because he is describing his land and he does it so well I long to overcome my fear of flying and take off and try and see what Lawson saw.In some ways I am glad I wont be going..for there are places where I lived many years ago and I cant go back because I know it wouldnt be the same And seeing it changed would destroy the wonderful memories that I hold But here is today;s poem and I am just going to allow Henry to take us there..anna

Above Eurunderee


There are scenes in the distance where beauty is not,
On the desolate flats where gaunt appletrees rot.
Where the brooding old ridge rises up to the breeze>br> From his dark lonely gullies of stringy-bark trees,
There are voice-haunted gaps, ever sullen and strange,
But Eurunderee lies like a gem in the range.


Still I see in my fancy the dark-green and blue
Of the box-covered hills where the five-corners grew;
And the rugged old sheoaks that sighed in the bend
O'er the lily-decked pools where the dark ridges end,
And the scrub-covered spurs running down from the Peak
To the deep grassy banks of Eurunderee Creek.


On the knolls where the vineyards and fruit-gardens are
There's a beauty that even the drought cannot mar;
For I noticed it oft, in the days that are lost,
As I trod on the siding where lingered the frost,
When the shadows of night from the gullies were gone
And the hills in the background were flushed by the dawn
.

I was there in late years, but there's many a change
Where the Cudgegong River flows down through the range,
For the curse of the town with the railroad had come,
And the goldfields were dead. And the girl and the chum
And the old home were gone, yet the oaks seemed to speak
Of the hazy old days on Eurunderee Creek.


And I stood by that creek, ere the sunset grew cold,
When the leaves of the sheoaks are traced on the gold,
And I thought of old things, and I thought of old folks,
Till I sighed in my heart to the sigh of the oaks;
For the years waste away like the waters that leak
Through the pebbles and sand of Eurunderee Creek.


Henry Lawson

Alliemae
July 9, 2006 - 04:09 pm
I've been reading the poems and comments that I'd missed and I'm wondering if they were possibly all written mainly within the same period...perhaps a deep period of loss of the writer's or a period of reflection during which he was working out his perhaps earlier unexpressed grief over events in his own life.

I don't get the feeling that they was isolated from each other.

Alliemae

MarjV
July 9, 2006 - 05:26 pm
Babi Oh, how I love the Irish Blessings. Thanks for those 2. They have always been special ones. I'm not Irish geneologically but in spirit I am.

Scrawler's post: That a strong & emotional poem. I think the soul can get to a point in life where there is no carin'. Sad , but true.

MarjV
July 9, 2006 - 05:29 pm
Anna: did you read somewhere that Lawson did not work on polishing or editing his poems?

Alliemae
July 9, 2006 - 05:59 pm
I apologize for the screaming incorrectness of this sentence. I don't participate enough to NOT write correctly.

Mea culpa.

Jim in Jeff
July 9, 2006 - 06:05 pm
Many lovely thoughts posted here this month. Sad to apologize, I've not been inspired to post "upbeat" thoughts here yet this month. Lawson just isn't speaking to me much.

But I've been trying to "hear him" (honest). A week ago I emailed a looong-time Melbourne friend, asking for his "take" on Lawson. My friend's reply was thoughtful...and worth citing here, IMHO:

G'day Jim,

Only two Aussie poets have appeared on our stamps and banknotes. They are 'Banjo' Paterson and Henry Lawson. Contemporaries, both are held in equal esteem. Lawson was an alcoholic, hence his shorter lifespan.

Both were acquaintances with a friendly rivalry between them. Lawson is considered the better story writer - it was once said his story, "The Drover's Wife", was written as if for TV or movie script.


Five days ago MarjV up and shared with us her quality link to Lawson's short-story: "The Drover's Wife": MarjV, "---Poetry" #64, 5 Jul 2006 7:48 am

annafair
July 9, 2006 - 08:45 pm
No I didnt read that but he was an alcoholic and when I read about him I just get this feeling that he didnt spend a lot of time editing What he wrote in my opinion is what we get.

Below is a short bio and it mentions his fondness for being with his buddies and drinking ..which lead me to think as I said before that they might have said Any new poem Henry? All of this is conjecture I realize it seems to be the way his poetry and the story of his life comes across to me. I didnt intend to mislead which was why I said this is my impression.

Jim glad to have your thoughts here and the post from your Aussie friend .I think because Lawson captures the early Australia well his poetry requires us to read it differently . For the most part he is describing place,events and people that are unknown to us. As I posted though his poetry makes me want to know more about that life.

History has always been along with poetry my weakness ..

here is the link to a short bio I think I posted it before ..anna

http://www.abc.net.au/btn/australians/lawson.htm

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 9, 2006 - 09:33 pm
Lawson just isn't doing it for me either - some of the events in his poems remind me of Robert W. Service however, Service was so outrageous and made all the misery into something to pull our leg - a sorta bravado about the difficulties where as with Lawson it is all about the difficulties.

Here is an example of Service The Cremation of Sam McGee and here is some of his more serious work The Spell Of The Yukon And Other Verses

Service was writing about the same time as Lawson with only a few years difference in their age. I know I am missing some of the Subtlety of some of our other poets but then many here like Lawson's style so it may be just a matter of taste. He sure is a man of misery...

annafair
July 10, 2006 - 02:25 am
Thanks for the link to Service's poems I fell in love with Alaska because of his poetry. Lawson and Service did write about the same time. One thing I have emphasied is Lawson's life, He was born in a desolate place, was poor and life was hard for him from beginnning to the end.There is little joy in most of his poems because there was little joy in his life. That he wrote poetry at all I think was a wonderful thing. That he could write some things with humour says a lot considering his own life.

I urge all to read the bio of Service and contrast it to Lawson. I think one reason I am attracted to Lawson's poems is his history. He spent a lot of time in jail, a lot of time drinking

I miss the erudite poetry of Neruda , the gentleness of Oliver, the biting poetry of Brooks and the poetry of Hughes and Heaney but I dont think we should dismiss the hardscrabble poetry of Lawson. I encourage all to post favorite poems of other poets in any discussion . Perhaps there are times when we should only spend two weeks on a poet since we can get the feel of the poet and the poems in that time .

And waiting off stage are the works of the world's poets. Some we will love and cant get enough of but others we may feel we are ready to move on. We can do that. If the consensus is to move on. that is what we will do.

My place here is not to make all of the decisions but to give us a place to discuss poetry.Which reminds me I am open for suggestions for future poets. August will find us with Millay and I have read so many poems from so many poets over the years I am hard pressed to decide whose poems should be discussed next. It is my desire to find poets from different places, with different backgrounds , to open the doors for us to learn about the poet, the whys of the poet and discuss the poems they wrote.

I like looking into some of the newer poets and some I have in mind are Ted Kooser,. Dana Gioia, some of the old poets Yeats, Browning, I love the poetry of Robert Louis Stevenson , Dorothy Parker comes to mind ..my mind is full of poets I have read .But what I want to do is find out which ones YOU want to discuss ...I am including a link to Service's bio ..You will see how different it is from Lawson. my motto is Poetry is Life ..Life is Poetry ..and like life it has it highs and lows, its beauty and its pain ...anna

http://www.geocities.com/heartland/bluffs/8336/robert_service_bio.html

.

annafair
July 10, 2006 - 02:42 am
Again I found a poem by Lawson who seems to be taking to task other poets of his time and reviewers of poetry. He did write about what he knew ..and he saw the hard life of his time. I admire that he gave credit to the men AND women who labored there . who helped to make Australia ...anna

Australian Bards And Bush Reviewers


While you use your best endeavour to immortalise in verse
The gambling and the drink which are your country's greatest curse,
While you glorify the bully and take the spieler's part --
You're a clever southern writer, scarce inferior to Bret Harte.


If you sing of waving grasses when the plains are dry as bricks,
And discover shining rivers where there's only mud and sticks;
If you picture `mighty forests' where the mulga spoils the view --
You're superior to Kendall, and ahead of Gordon too.


If you swear there's not a country like the land that gave you birth,
And its sons are just the noblest and most glorious chaps on earth;
If in every girl a Venus your poetic eye discerns,
You are gracefully referred to as the `young Australian Burns'.


But if you should find that bushmen -- spite of all the poets say --
Are just common brother-sinners, and you're quite as good as they --
You're a drunkard, and a liar, and a cynic, and a sneak,
Your grammar's simply awful and your intellect is weak.


Henry Lawson

annafair
July 10, 2006 - 02:54 am
A poem of mine...just to cheer you up It is called a Spring Tonic and although summer is here with heat and humidity and thanks to the inventor of air conditoner..we can always use a bit of Spring Tonic..anna

Spring Tonic


Take a drop of dew from the new green grass
Stir in a cup of nectar from the roses bounty
A smidgen of dandelion for its acrid taste
Add the song from the mockingbird
Perched in my plum tree
A helping of a soft spring breeze
A generous amount of sun
Filtered through the oaks green leaves
Leave the bee behind but add to all his hum
A flutter from the wings of the sulpher butterfly
Will make a delightful tonic
Gently stir them in a tulip cup
Inhale as often as needed to feed the soul
Lift the spirit caught in winters doldrums


anna alexander 5/12/99 all rights reserved

MarjV
July 10, 2006 - 08:07 am
1... Seems to me that Lawson. as an overview ,is a story teller in poem and prose. As I see it he used poetry when he wanted to get into the deeper emotional aspect of something/someone. Think of how his story of the man who rode and rode to spread the news of his friend's death and died himself has such a greater impact than if he told it as a short story. Or the little old woman in black.

2... Lovely poem offering, Anna. I have my pretend tulip in hand.

3...A thought: perhaps 3 weeks focus on a certain poet and have the 4th week be potpourri from any poet or the focused poet or just plain gathering thoughts.

Scrawler
July 10, 2006 - 11:19 am
I met her on the Lachlan Side -
A darling girl I thought her,
And ere I left I swore I'd win
The free-selector's daughter.

I milked her father's cows a month,
I brought the wood and water,
I mended all the broken fence,
Before I won the daughter.

I listened to her father's yarns,
I did just what I 'oughter',
And what you'll have to do to win
A free-selector's daughter

I broke my pipe and burnt my twist,
And washed my mouth with water;
I had a shave before I kissed
The free-selector's daughter.

Then, rising in the frosty morn,
I brought the cows for Mary,
And when I'd milked a bucketful
I took it to the diary.

I poured the milk into the dish
While Mary held the strainer,
I summoned heart to speak my wish,
And, oh! her blush grew plainer.

I told her I must leave the place,
I said that I would miss her;
At first she turned away her face,
And then she let me kiss her.

I put the bucket on the ground,
And in my arms I caught her:
I'd give the world to hold again
That free-selector's daughter!

~"In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

While I understand the ways of the man towards the free seclector's daughter, I'd like to know what a "free-selector" is? Does anyone here know what that might refer to?

annafair
July 10, 2006 - 11:36 am
Here is a link and I only read the information once but it seems to me that that free selectors were those immigrants who went freely to Australia instead of being sent for crimes..It is an interesting article an I think every one might want to read ..anna let me know how others interpret this

http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article-196946

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 10, 2006 - 12:22 pm
Oh Anna if were up to me I would not shorten the month - look at all we are learning about Australia and this poets place in Australia's literature. I think we all have different reactions to various poets - some speak to us and others do not - but then there are quite a few who Lawson speaks to right here in this discussion. Also you have given us the freedom to post the work of other poets at any time we choose and so that gives us a break so that we are not reading none stop one poet during any full month... I think you are doing a terrific job... Thank you!

MarjV
July 10, 2006 - 12:31 pm
I think Barbara is right.

annafair
July 10, 2006 - 02:22 pm
Barbara and Marjv how kind of you to post those complimentary words If I weighed less I would be walking on air.. Thanks anna

MarjV
July 10, 2006 - 02:26 pm
"During his later life, the alcohol-addicted writer was probably Australia's best-known celebrity. At the same time, he was also a frequent beggar on the streets of Sydney, notably at the Circular Quay ferry turnstiles. He was gaoled at Darlinghurst Gaol for drunkenness and non-payment of alimony, and recorded his experience in the haunting poem "One Hundred and Three" - his prison number - which was published in 1908. He refers to the prison as "Starvinghurst Gaol" because of the meagre rations given to the inmates."

I don't think anyone has posted that poem yet.

Here is the link to it.....good one to read and ponder another link in his total poetric offerings. It definitely isn't a "feel good" poem but one that needs reading.

"One Hundred and Three"

MarjV
July 10, 2006 - 02:30 pm
I think "free selector" also has something to do with "free hold land" but I could not open the one website that had an exact article on "Free Selector" - tried it over and over.

Whatever, we know the narrator of that poem wanted the girl !

BaBi
July 10, 2006 - 02:46 pm
Thanks for the link Annafair. Now I am curious to know more about the 'convict-architect' Francis Greenway. I found the following, and was shocked to learn that Greenway had originally been condemned to death for the crime of forging a financial document. The justice system was extremely harsh in those days.

GREENWAY

Babi

MarjV
July 10, 2006 - 03:21 pm
Just think of the buildings that would have been missed if Greenway hand't done that forgery and been deported from England! Such ridiulous sentences they had in England for so many people.

anneofavonlea
July 10, 2006 - 05:08 pm
If we do the great English poets, like Yeats or tennyson, a month would seem hardly enough, frankly I find the discussion between people here of late poetry in itself.

Some we like, some we dont, but none of it is boring, and I always am surprised at how others cam make me take a second look by their comment.

It behoves us I think, to try a little of everything, personally I am apalled by literary snobs, (not that we have any here), but I do like the really informed comment from those among you who have a great knowledge of the language. Being an Aussie I also like to see those of us who bring little...... except our love of poetry, accepted, as we are.

When your on a good thing "stick to it"

Anneo

anneofavonlea
July 10, 2006 - 05:10 pm
on first reading I thought you were talking about the spoken sentence, and was all indignant, lol. Most of we aussies are grateful for the other sentences though, as we were sent here as a result of them, to the greatest land on earth.

Anneo

MarjV
July 10, 2006 - 06:01 pm
Anneo - I'm glad you figured it out. I could have phrased it better I see after looking back at my post.

annafair
July 10, 2006 - 07:11 pm
This poem appealed to me because the meter seemed so cheerful .And while the poem ends with the end of Corny Bill they both sound like people I have known. .And I have read it several times and still cant figure out just what it means by humping the drum Now I remember that peddlers years ago were called drummers and thier spiel was some how connected with being a drummer. So perhaps he is speaking of talking ? Any way Bill sounds a lot like my Uncle Wild Bill..When I met him he was in his 60's I would guess and he was a charming man,.Had so many stories to tell and they were all funny, His occupation if you can say he had one was a cowboy but to be truthful I think he just did that when he had to. His wife reluctantly divorced him when someone told her if she died her home which she had turned into a boarding house would be his.So he must have been a charmer to her as well, He loved his children even if he didnt support them but they looked forward to his visits and ladies always liked him But his favorite things were just fishing and he didnt seem to care where he laid his head at night And while he never brought a lady friend when he visited his brothers and sisters he spoke about them I dont think he ever regretted being who he was. This poem sort of reminds me of him We always loved to see him appear at our front door. He never stayed but would sit for hours telling stories and I know they always made everyone laugh I also think when he left my father or mother would slip him a few dollars..As I believe all of his brothers and sisters did. He wasnt what you would call an UPRIGHT MAN ( responsible) but when he left you always felt here was a man who loved life ..and you were sorry to see him leave and always glad when he came back ..anna

Corny Bill


His old clay pipe stuck in his mouth,
His hat pushed from his brow,
His dress best fitted for the South --
I think I see him now;
And when the city streets are still,
And sleep upon me comes,
I often dream that me an' Bill
Are humpin' of our drums.


I mind the time when first I came
A stranger to the land;
And I was stumped, an' sick, an' lame
When Bill took me in hand.
Old Bill was what a chap would call
A friend in poverty,
And he was very kind to all,
And very good to me.


We'd camp beneath the lonely trees
And sit beside the blaze,
A-nursin' of our wearied knees,
A-smokin' of our clays.
Or when we'd journeyed damp an' far,
An' clouds were in the skies,
We'd camp in some old shanty bar,
And sit a-tellin' lies.


Though time had writ upon his brow
And rubbed away his curls,
He always was -- an' may be now --
A favourite with the girls;
I've heard bush-wimmin scream an' squall --
I've see'd 'em laugh until
They could not do their work at all,
Because of Corny Bill.


He was the jolliest old pup
As ever you did see,
And often at some bush kick-up
They'd make old Bill M.C.
He'd make them dance and sing all night,
He'd make the music hum,
But he'd be gone at mornin' light
A-humpin' of his drum.


Though joys of which the poet rhymes
Was not for Bill an' me,
I think we had some good old times
Out on the wallaby.
I took a wife and left off rum,
An' camped beneath a roof;
But Bill preferred to hump his drum
A-paddin' of the hoof.


The lazy, idle loafers what
In toney houses camp
Would call old Bill a drunken sot,
A loafer, or a tramp;
But if the dead should ever dance --
As poets say they will --
I think I'd rather take my chance
Along of Corny Bill.


His long life's-day is nearly o'er,
Its shades begin to fall;
He soon must mount his bluey for
The last long tramp of all;
I trust that when, in bush an' town,
He's lived and learnt his fill,
They'll let the golden slip-rails down
For poor old Corny Bill.


Henry Lawson

anneofavonlea
July 11, 2006 - 02:21 am
to say I will be away for a couple of weeks, as we are off to the snow country for a break, may even try skiing, for the first time, keep up the good work.

Anneo

annafair
July 11, 2006 - 03:32 am
Have a great time and I wont wish you well by saying as actors do before going on stage. Break A leg! Think of us back here in the heat and humidity of summer ..Oh yes if you see this before you leave Make a snow angel for me!!! love to you always, anna

hats
July 11, 2006 - 05:03 am
Anna, I love your recipe poem. I will give it a try. I enjoyed reading it. I am far behind in reading HL's poems or the comments. So, I might have to disappear for awhile just to catch up.

hats
July 11, 2006 - 05:24 am
MarjV, thank you for posting "One hundred and Three" by Henry Lawson. It brought tears to my eyes. I think he was a brave man to write his emotions and describe his hard times on paper. I hope it worked as a catharsis for him.

hats
July 11, 2006 - 05:44 am
Babi, thank you for the bio of Mr. Greenway. It is very interesting.

annafair
July 11, 2006 - 06:02 am
Yes I thought of the poem you posted after I went to bed ..it sort of played itself in my mind. It was as Hats said worthy of a few tears. And I agree it should be read. Again Henry takes the events in his life and with his poetry makes us understand . Babi I read the link you posted too and it was hard to believe that people from England were sentenced to Australia for something less than a really vicious crime.He did use his talent well there. As anneo said they were glad he was sent to Australia,

Some of the stories of Australia reminds me of the stories from the times when our own West was being settled. From all of my reading of History it would seem each country early in its progress suffered much the same.

Well I will return later have an early doctors appointment. Wish me well..anna

Scrawler
July 11, 2006 - 09:10 am
Old Mate!In the gusty old weather,
When our hopes and our troubles were new,
In the years spent in wearing out leather,
I found you unselfish and true -
I have gathered these verses together
For the sake of our friendship and you.

You may think for awhile, and with reason,
Though still with a kindly regret,
That I've left it full late in the season
To prove I remember you yet;
But you'll never judge me by their treason
Who profit by friends - and forget.

I remember, Old Man, I remember -
The tracks that we followed are clear -
The jovial last nights of December,
The solemn first days of the year,
Long tramps through the clearings and timber,
Short partings on platform and pier.

I can still feel th spirit that bore us,
And often the old stars will shine-
I remember the last spree in chorus
For the sake of that other Lang Syne,
When the tracks lay divided before us,
You path through the future and mine.

Through the frost-wind that cut like whip-lashes,
Through the ever-blind haze of the drought -
And in fancy at times by the flashes
Of light in the darkness of doubt-
I have followed the tent poles and ashes
Of camps that we moved further out.

You will find in these pages a trace of
That side of our past which was bright,
And recognise sometimes the face of
A friend who has dropped out of sight -
I send them along in the place of
The letters I promised to write.

~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

This too is a very sad poem, but it reminds us all of sometimes as life goes on we somehow lose sight of those we once knew and have now dropped out of sight.

BaBi
July 11, 2006 - 03:05 pm
Here's one of his earlier poems, and you can feel the heat and dust.

The Teams

Henry Lawson

A cloud of dust on the long white road,  
And the teams go creeping on  
Inch by inch with the weary load;  
And by the power of the greenhide goad  
The distant goal is won 

With eyes half-shut to the blinding dust, And necks to the yokes bent low, The beasts are pulling as bullocks must; And the shining tires might almost rust While the spokes are turning slow.

With face half-hid 'neath a broad-brimmed hat That shades from the heat's white waves, And shouldered whip with its greenhide plait, The driver plods with a gait like that Of his weary, patient slaves.

He wipes his brow, for the day is hot, And spits to the left with spite; He shouts at "Bally", and flicks at "Scot", And raises dust from the back of "Spot", And spits to the dusty right.

He'll sometimes pause as a thing of form In front of a settler's door, And ask for a drink, and remark, "It's warm," Or say, "There's signs of a thunderstorm;" But he seldom utters more.

But the rains are heavy on roads like these; And, fronting his lonely home, For weeks together the settler sees The teams bogged down to the axletrees, Or ploughing the sodden loam.

And then when the roads are at their worst, The bushman's children hear The cruel blows of the whips reversed While bullocks pull as their hearts would burst, And bellow with pain and fear.

And thus with little joy or rest Are the long, long journeys done; And thus - 'tis a cruel war at best – Is distance fought in the mighty West, And the lonely battles won


(For some reason I can't get the spacing to stay in.)

annafair
July 11, 2006 - 11:03 pm
Not because they are beautiful but because they are real I came across a qoute from a poet from North Carlina who keeps in touch with me and thought I would share it with you.

"...in the end we go to poetry for one reason, so that we might more fully inhabit our lives and the world in which we live them, and that if we more fully inhabit these things, we mightbe less apt to destroy both." Christian Wiman, Editor, Poetry magazine

hats
July 12, 2006 - 01:03 am
Anna, your poet friend wrote true words in a beautiful way.

Babi, I could feel the heat and dust. I also thought of a novel from India with that very title. I can feel the hardness of this man's life. I also noticed the man just gives his all to his work and doesn't complain. It takes mighty strong character to keep going without a word of complaint.

hats
July 12, 2006 - 01:17 am
Reedy River

Henry Lawson

1896

Ten miles down Reedy River
A pool of water lies,
And all the year it mirrors
The changes in the skies,
And in that pool's broad bosom
Is room for all the stars;
Its bed of sand has drifted
O'er countless rocky bars.


Around the lower edges
There waves a bed of reeds,
Where water rats are hidden
And where the wild duck breeds;
And grassy slopes rise gently
To ridges long and low,
Where groves of wattle flourish
And native bluebells grow.


Beneath the granite ridges
The eye may just discern
Where Rocky Creek emerges
From deep green banks of fern;
And standing tall between them,
The grassy she-oaks cool
The hard, blue-tinted waters
Before they reach the pool.


Ten miles down Reedy River
One Sunday afternoon,
I rode with Mary Campbell
To that broad, bright lagoon;
We left our horses grazing
Till shadows climbed the peak,
And strolled beneath the she-oaks
On the banks of Rocky Creek.


Then home along the river
That night we rode a race,
And the moonlight lent a glory
To Mary Campbell's face;
And I pleaded for our future
All through that moonlight ride,
Until our weary horses
Drew closer side by side.


Ten miles from Ryan's Crossing
And five miles below the peak,
I built a little homestead
On the banks of Rocky Creek;
I cleared the land and fenced it
And ploughed the rich, red loam,
And my first crop was golden
When I brought my Mary home.


Now still down Reedy River
The grassy she-oaks sigh,
And the water-holes still mirror
The pictures in the sky;
And over all for ever
Go sun and moon and stars,
While the golden sand is drifting
Across the rocky bars


But of the hut I builded
There are no traces now.
And many rains have levelled
The furrows of the plough;
And my bright days are olden,
For the twisted branches wave
And the wattle blossoms golden
On the hill by Mary's grave.


This is a love story. I can see Mary Campbell and her true love riding along, the wind catching their voices as they pass along the Reedy River. I can see it all through Henry Lawson's eyes. I feel the happiness as the home is being built. Then I feel the sorrow of Mary's death.

Most of us can share this experience. The days we found our love are unforgettable. I remember meeting my husband at a church dance.

hats
July 12, 2006 - 01:20 am
In more than one of Henry Lawson's poems, he mentions the She-oak trees. We have beautiful links listed. Did I miss a photo of the She-oak tree? How is it pronounced?

These are my favorite lines.

Then home along the river
That night we rode a race,
And the moonlight lent a glory
To Mary Campbell's face;
And I pleaded for our future
All through that moonlight ride,
Until our weary horses
Drew closer side by side.


I hope Anneo, is enjoying herself.

joebabe
July 12, 2006 - 07:23 am
My main interest is contemporary poetry, and I have pretty much turned off "Kipling-like" poets. But this guy is a very good poet and deserves our attention. He writes the kind of poetry which can break your heart -- maybe today we call it corny -- but it is certainly effective.

Thanks for bringing him to my attention

Joe

MarjV
July 12, 2006 - 08:45 am
Here are the She-oaks or Sheoaks of the "Reedy River" poem.

Sheoaks

and here is a photo of them around a pond similar to the poem

Sheoaks by pond

hats
July 12, 2006 - 08:59 am
MarjV, thank you.

Scrawler
July 12, 2006 - 10:58 am
An hour before the sun goes down
Behind teh ragged boughs,
I go across the little run
And bring the dusty cows;
And once I used to sit and rest
Beneath the fading dome,
For there was one that I loved best
Wo'd bring the cattle home.

Our yard is fixed with double bails,
Round one the grass is green,
The bush is growing through the rails,
The spike is rusted in;
And 'twas from there his freckled face
Would turn and smile at me-
He'd milk a dozen in the race
While I was milking three.

I milk eleven cows myself
Where once I milked but four;
I set the dishes on the shelf
And close the dairy door
And when the glaring sunlight fails
And the fire shines through the cracks,
I climb the broken stockyard rails
And watch the bridle-tracks.

He kissed me twice and once again
And rode across the hill,
The pint-pots and the hobble-chain
I hear them jingling still;
He'll come at night or not at all-
He left in dust and heat,
And when the soft, cool shadows fall
Is the bes time to meet.

And he is coming back again,
He wrote to let me know,
The floods were in the Darling then-
It seems so long ago;
He'd come through miles of slush and mud,
And it was weary work,
He'd come through miles of slush and mud,
And it was weary work,
The creeks were bankers, and the flood
Was forty miles round Bourke.

He said teh floods had formed a block,
The plains could not be crossed,
And there was foot-rot in the flock
And hundreds had been lost;
The sheep were falling thick and fast
A hundred miles from town,
And when he reached the line at last
He trucked the remnant down.

And so he'll have to stand the cost;
his luck was always bad;
Instead of making more, he lost
The money that he had;
And how he'll manage, heaven knows
(My eyes are getting dim),
He says - he sys - he don't - suppose
I'll want - to marry - him

As if I wouldn't take his hand
Without a golden glove -
Oh! Jack, you men won't understand
How much a girl can love.
I long to see his face once more -
Jack's dog! thank God, it's Jack! -
(I never thought I'd faint before)
He's coming - up - the track.

~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

That last stanza reminds me of the day my husband came back from Vietnam. He came home a day early and instead of looking my best, I was a mess. I had been cleaning the kitchen floor on my hands and knees when I heard my doorbell ring. It was as if somebody was leaning on the bell and in frustration I got up and went to the door and guess who was standing there in his fatigues. And I'd never thought I'd faint before - I didn't than either but I was hard pressed to get my breathe when he kissed me.

MarjV
July 12, 2006 - 12:59 pm
Awwwwwww - what a neat poem that is, Scrawler. And your own memory too.

Sort of like the Reedy River poem with the love laid right out there for all to see.

hats
July 12, 2006 - 01:16 pm
Scrawler, I love your memory too. In the poem, I fell for the sheep. Poor sheep.

And there was foot-rot in the flock
And hundreds had been lost;
The sheep were falling thick and fast
A hundred miles from town,
And when he reached the line at last
He trucked the remnant down.

BaBi
July 12, 2006 - 04:38 pm
I loved Hats' "Reedy River" and Scrawler's "The Drover's Sweetheart". Both so real, so human. Isn't is great, Scrawler, when you read a poem and find yourself in it? One of the best descriptions of poetry I know I heard many years ago. It was that the poet describes for us the things in our heart that we long to say, but don't have the words.

MARJ, thanks for the links about the sheoaks. They have appeared in several of the poems, and I assumed they were oak trees, and calling thatm 'sheoaks' was an Aussie thing. These looked more like pines, and they made a lovely frame around that pond.

Babi

annafair
July 13, 2006 - 05:36 am
Scrawler I love the poem and the memory as well I can relate to both since my husband was a pilot in the USAF and sometimes came home unexpected as well And Hats I had to laugh that it was the sheep you felt far. And now I know what a sheoak looks like.. totally different than expected interesting as well.

I have been busy cleaning my house for I have pedln from our SN here for a couple of days and I am never organized enough to have a guest arrive unless I spend at least two days to get things in some order.

We are off today for some sight seeing but I did find a poem for today By the way I love some of the comments about what poetry means and how it affects us...I chose this one because the name was Irish but like lots of Lawson's poems you get more than you expected. And I guess we all have some tiny little secret where we too wonder What if? and What might have been? anna

Sweeney


It was somewhere in September, and the sun was going down,
When I came, in search of `copy', to a Darling-River town;
`Come-and-have-a-drink' we'll call it -- 'tis a fitting name, I think --
And 'twas raining, for a wonder, up at Come-and-have-a-drink.


'Neath the public-house verandah I was resting on a bunk
When a stranger rose before me, and he said that he was drunk;
He apologised for speaking; there was no offence, he swore;
But he somehow seemed to fancy that he'd seen my face before.


`No erfence,' he said. I told him that he needn't mention it,
For I might have met him somewhere; I had travelled round a bit,
And I knew a lot of fellows in the bush and in the streets -- <br. But a fellow can't remember all the fellows that he meets.


Very old and thin and dirty were the garments that he wore,
Just a shirt and pair of trousers, and a boot, and nothing more; <br. He was wringing-wet, and really in a sad and sinful plight,
And his hat was in his left hand, and a bottle in his right.


His brow was broad and roomy, but its lines were somewhat harsh,
And a sensual mouth was hidden by a drooping, fair moustache;
(His hairy chest was open to what poets call the `wined',
And I would have bet a thousand that his pants were gone behind).


He agreed: `Yer can't remember all the chaps yer chance to meet,'
And he said his name was Sweeney -- people lived in Sussex-street.
He was campin' in a stable, but he swore that he was right,
`Only for the blanky horses walkin' over him all night.'


He'd apparently been fighting, for his face was black-and-blue,
And he looked as though the horses had been treading on him, too;
But an honest, genial twinkle in the eye that wasn't hurt
Seemed to hint of something better, spite of drink and rags and dirt.


It appeared that he mistook me for a long-lost mate of his --
One of whom I was the image, both in figure and in phiz --
(He'd have had a letter from him if the chap were living still,
For they'd carried swags together from the Gulf to Broken Hill.)


Sweeney yarned awhile and hinted that his folks were doing well,
And he told me that his father kept the Southern Cross Hotel;
And I wondered if his absence was regarded as a loss
When he left the elder Sweeney -- landlord of the Southern Cross.


He was born in Parramatta, and he said, with humour grim,
That he'd like to see the city ere the liquor finished him,
But he couldn't raise the money. He was damned if he could think
What the Government was doing. Here he offered me a drink.


I declined -- 'TWAS self-denial -- and I lectured him on booze,
Using all the hackneyed arguments that preachers mostly use;
Things I'd heard in temperance lectures (I was young and rather green),
And I ended by referring to the man he might have been.


Then a wise expression struggled with the bruises on his face,
Though his argument had scarcely any bearing on the case:
`What's the good o' keepin' sober? Fellers rise and fellers fall;
What I might have been and wasn't doesn't trouble me at all.'


But he couldn't stay to argue, for his beer was nearly gone.
He was glad, he said, to meet me, and he'd see me later on;
He guessed he'd have to go and get his bottle filled again,
And he gave a lurch and vanished in the darkness and the rain.


And of afternoons in cities, when the rain is on the land,
Visions come to me of Sweeney with his bottle in his hand,
With the stormy night behind him, and the pub verandah-post --
And I wonder why he haunts me more than any other ghost.


Still I see the shearers drinking at the township in the scrub,
And the army praying nightly at the door of every pub,
And the girls who flirt and giggle with the bushmen from the west --
But the memory of Sweeney overshadows all the rest.


Well, perhaps, it isn't funny; there were links between us two --
He had memories of cities, he had been a jackeroo;
And, perhaps, his face forewarned me of a face that I might see
From a bitter cup reflected in the wretched days to be.


I suppose he's tramping somewhere where the bushmen carry swags,
Cadging round the wretched stations with his empty tucker-bags;
And I fancy that of evenings, when the track is growing dim,
What he `might have been and wasn't' comes along and troubles him
.

Henry Lawson

hats
July 13, 2006 - 05:56 am
Anna and Pedln, enjoy your time visiting.

hats
July 13, 2006 - 06:01 am
Anna, thank you for posting the poem about Sweeney by Henry Lawson. I think the last line is all about regrets. Regrets can tear a heart to pieces.

"What he `might have been and wasn't' comes along and troubles him"

Boy, Henry Lawson certainly can tell a story. I can see the black and blue bruises on Sweeney. Sweeney probably wouldn't hurt a butterfly. I bet someone took advantage of Sweeney.

Scrawler
July 13, 2006 - 11:34 am
A cloud of dust on the long white road,
And the teams go creeping on
Inch by inch with the wery load;
And by the power of the green-hide goad
The distant goal is won.

With eyes half-shut to the blinding dust,
And necks to the yokes bent low,
The beasts are pulling as bullocks must;
And the shining tires might almost rust
While the spokes are turning slow.

With face half-hid 'neath a broad-brimemd hat
That shades from the heart's white waves.
And shouldered whip with its green-hide plait,
The driver plods with a gait like that
Or of his weary, patient slaves.

He wipes his brow, for the day is hot,
And spits to the left with spite;
He shouts at 'Bally,' and flicks at 'Scot',
And raises dust from the back of 'Spot',
And spits to the dusty right.

He'll sometimes pause as a thing of form
In front of a settler's door,
And ask for a drink, and remark 'It's warm,
Or say 'There's signs of a thunder-storm';
But he seldom utters more.

But the rains are heavy on the road like these;
And, fronting his lonely home,
For weeks together the settler sees
The teams bogged down to the axletrees,
Or ploughing the sodden loam.

And then when the roads are at their worst,
The bushman's children hear
The cruel blows of the whips reversed
While bullocks pull as their hearts would burst,
And bellow with pain and fear.

And thus with little of joy or rest
Are the long, long journey's done;
And this - 'tis a cruel war at the best -
Is distance fought in the mighty West,
And the lonely battles won.

~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

You have to say that Lawson is truly a good storyteller. Can't you see the teams as they struggle to work together - man and beast a like.

BaBi
July 13, 2006 - 04:14 pm
I'm going to be out-of-pocket for the next 2-3 days. My son and granddaughter are coming to visit. I know you'll excuse me while I give them my full attention.

Babi

Alliemae
July 14, 2006 - 08:07 am
To Be Amused

You ask me to be gay and glad
While lurid clouds of danger loom,
And vain and bad and gambling mad,
Australia races to her doom.
You bid me sing the light and fair,
The dance, the glance on pleasure's wings –
While you have wives who will not bear,
And beer to drown the fear of things.

A war with reason you would wage
To be amused for your short span,
Until your children's heritage
Is claimed for China by Japan.
The football match, the cricket score,
The "scraps", the tote, the mad'ning Cup –
You drunken fools that evermore
"To-morrow morning" sober up!

I see again with haggard eyes,
The thirsty land, the wasted flood;
Unpeopled plains beyond the skies,
And precious streams that run to mud;
The ruined health, the wasted wealth,
In our mad cities by the seas,
The black race suicide by stealth,
The starved and murdered industries!

You bid me make a farce of day,
And make a mockery of death;
While not five thousand miles away
The yellow millions pant for breath!
But heed me now, nor ask me this –
Lest you too late should wake to find
That hopeless patriotism is
The strongest passion in mankind!

You'd think the seer sees, perhaps,
While staring on from days like these,
Politeness in the conquering Japs,
Or mercy in the banned Chinese!
I mind the days when parents stood,
And spake no word, while children ran
From Christian lanes and deemed it good
To stone a helpless Chinaman.

I see the stricken city fall,
The fathers murdered at their doors,
The sack, the massacre of all
Save healthy slaves and paramours –
The wounded hero at the stake,
The pure girl to the leper's kiss –
God, give us faith, for Christ's own sake
To kill our womankind ere this.

I see the Bushman from Out Back,
From mountain range and rolling downs,
And carts race on each rough bush track
With food and rifles from the towns;
I see my Bushmen fight and die
Amongst the torn blood-spattered trees,
And hear all night the wounded cry
For men! More men and batteries!

I see the brown and yellow rule
The southern lands and southern waves,
White children in the heathen school,
And black and white together slaves;
I see the colour-line so drawn
(I see it plain and speak I must),
That our brown masters of the dawn
Might, aye, have fair girls for their lusts!

With land and life and race at stake –
No matter which race wronged, or how –
Let all and one Australia make
A superhuman effort now.
Clear out the blasting parasites,
The paid-for-one-thing manifold,
And curb the goggled "social-lights"
That "scorch" to nowhere with our gold.

Store guns and ammunition first,
Build forts and warlike factories,
Sink bores and tanks where drought is worst,
Give over time to industries.
The outpost of the white man's race,
Where next his flag shall be unfurled,
Make clean the place! Make strong the place!
Call white men in from all the world!

Henry Lawson

I found this poem while looking through the titles for a more 'light-hearted' poem by Henry Lawson...and hopefully a shorter one.

When I realized it was neither I decided to at least read it but not necessarily post it.

I'm confused by this poem and the poet's intention in writing it: is it sarcasm, tongue-in-cheek, resignation at something he sees happening in his country that disgusts him...or just historic telling.

I don't know where its birthplace in the history of Australia may have been--I think it might help to know that.

If any of you can give your opinions or shed some facts on this poem I'd really appreciate it.

The one thing I am sure of is that it has left me feeling deeply sad...in a very 'down-beaten' kind of sadness.

Thanks to all, Alliemae

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 14, 2006 - 08:43 am
hmmmm I do not see this poem as light hearted Alliemae - seems to me it is filled with irony - in the beginning it sounds like the typical alcoholic's complaints about the judgment folks have about drink and women who will not bed them - I am not sure he is connecting the idea they guy then makes for a mixed race because of her refusal but the idea of the problems of a mixed race children comes next - then he continues with a litany of issues that are to his mind far greater than drinking too much. Not to say they are not serious but they seem to be tied to the first bit and therefore justification for what he is saying Australia is -
You drunken fools that evermore
"To-morrow morning" sober up!

I see again with haggard eyes,
The thirsty land, the wasted flood;

that seems to be his explanation for the bit about

While you have wives who will not bear,
And beer to drown the fear of things.

In other words the women are refusing because he believes they fear both another birth and the guy's lack of willingness to help her and the difficulties of bringing up a child not only in the back country but with an alcoholic because he says the wives will not use beer to drown their fears which is what he is saying the husband is doing. Of course no acknowledgment is made here about how on top of the isolation we are hearing about that is usual for women in this time living in the back country but there is the additional isolation of a man who is there in body but that is all since the drinking person not only emotionally shuts themselves off from themselves as well as everyone else but is isolating those around them while they are busy drinking.

Having attended many an Al-Anon and ACOA meeting I have heard this rant before and of course from my alcoholic mate - ah so...

hehehehe with a brogue Lawson would make a good Irishmen who have the way with words - they seldom though find fault with their women and they do not seem to need to justify their drinking but they sure can wax poetic about it.

MarjV
July 14, 2006 - 10:20 am
"To Mrs. Reynolds's Cat"

by John Keats.

Cat! who hast pass'd thy grand climacteric,
How many mice and rats hast in thy days
Destroy'd? -- How many tidbits stolen? Gaze
With those bright languid segments green, and prick
Those velvet ears -- but pr'ythee do not stick
Thy latent talons in me -- and upraise
Thy gentle mew -- and tell me all thy frays
Of fish and mice, and rats and tender chick.
Nay, look not down, nor lick thy dainty wrists --
For all the wheezy asthma, -- and for all
Thy tail's tip is nick'd off -- and though the fists
Of many a maid have given thee many a maul,
Still is that fur as soft as when the lists
In youth thou enter'dst on glass-bottled wall.

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 14, 2006 - 12:22 pm
To many this is the drinking poem of Dylan Thomas - certainly it was written while he was in the throws of drinking that killed him by age 39.

The force that through the green fuse drives the flower
by Dylan Thomas

The force that through the green fuse drives the flower
Drives my green age; that blasts the roots of trees
Is my destroyer.
And I am dumb to tell the crooked rose
My youth is bent by the same wintry fever.

The force that drives the water through the rocks
Drives my red blood; that dries the mouthing streams
Turns mine to wax.
And I am dumb to mouth unto my veins
How at the mountain spring the same mouth sucks.

The hand that whirls the water in the pool
Stirs the quicksand; that ropes the blowing wind
Hauls my shroud sail.
And I am dumb to tell the hanging man
How of my clay is made the hangman's lime.

The lips of time leech to the fountain head;
Love drips and gathers, but the fallen blood
Shall calm her sores.
And I am dumb to tell a weather's wind
How time has ticked a heaven round the stars.

And I am dumb to tell the lover's tomb
How at my sheet goes the same crooked worm.

For him drink is a force of nature he was born with and although it will be the death of him he has no ability to stop. He likens the womb to a tomb since we all die however, he is saying his crooked worm upon entering the tomb will leave another with a force of nature that will blast with a force towards death. He is saying that drink is an inherited condition.

hats
July 14, 2006 - 12:43 pm
Golden Oldie


I made it home early, only to get
stalled in the driveway-swaying
at the wheel like a blind pianist caught in a tune
meant for more than two hands playing.
The words were easy, crooned
by a young girl dying to feel alive, to discover
a pain majestic enough
to live by. I turned the air conditioning off,
leaned back to float on a film of sweat,
and listened to her sentiment:
Baby, where did our love go?-a lament
I greedily took in
without a clue who my lover
might be, or where to start looking.


Rita Dove

I think songs can touch us just like poems. I have been in the car and hated to get out because of a special song playing.

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 14, 2006 - 01:26 pm
Hats perfect - I have no idea the tune but love the lyrics and had you not given the tip I would not have known it was anything but a poem. hmmm is a song a poem - certainly a poem is a song...

hats
July 14, 2006 - 01:30 pm
Barbara, a poem is a song. What is a song? Oh, don't mind me. I am confused.

Barbara, that poem is a poem. Rita Dove gives the name of a song in the poem. The name of the song is "Where did our love go?"

Alliemae
July 14, 2006 - 02:19 pm
Hi Barbara...I guess I didn't express myself clearly enough. No...I did not see it as light hearted either. What I said was I thought it was going to be light-hearted just when I saw the title and also I was looking for a shorter poem by Lawson...they all seem so long to me. But I decided to read it anyway and just not post it.

After reading it (and during also) was when I got confused about what his intention was...it sounded like it may have been written during a particular political time and I couldn't tell if he was agreeing with what he was describing or disagreeing with it or just 'telling' it.

Sorry for the confusion but thanks for your analysis of the poem, Barbara

Alliemae

Scrawler
July 14, 2006 - 02:40 pm
There are scenes in the distance where beauty is not,
On the desolate flats where guant appletrees rot.
Where the brooding old ridge rises up to the breeze
From his dark longely gullies of stringy - bark trees.
There are voice-huanted gaps, ever sullen and strange,
But Eurunderee lies like a gem in the range.

Still I see in my fancy the dark-green and blue
Of the box covered hills where the five-corners grew;
And the ragged old sheoaks that sighed in the bend
O'er the lily-decked pools where the dark rides end,
And the scrub-covered spurs running down from the Peak
To the deep grassy banks of Eurunderee Creek

On the knolls where the vineyards and fruit-grdens are
There's a beauty tht even the drought cannot mar;
As I trod on the siding where lingered the frost,
When the shadowsof night from the gullies were gone.
And the hills in the background were flushed by the dawn.

I was there in late years, but there's many a change
Where the Cudgegong River flows down through the range,
For the curse of the town with the railroad had come
And the goldfields were dead. And teh girl and the chum
And the old home were gone, yet the oaks seemed to speak
Of the hazy old days on Eurunderee Creek.

And I stood by that creek, ere the sunset grew cold,
When teh leaves of the sheoaks are traced on the gold
And I thought of old things, and I thought of old folks,
Till I sighed in my heart to the sigh of the oaks;
For the years waste away like the waters that leak
Through the pebles and sand of Euranderee Creek.

~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

I picked this poem because I was looking out at my oak trees that line the road next to Evergreen Prkwy where I live. That's where the road got its name. Someone was just telling me that these Oak trees have been here since the 1950s and somebody else said they are even older. If I close my eyes I can see a sleepy little town of Hillsboro covered with these trees where now there is cement, apartments, and malls. And I was feeling how the years waste away...

Barbara St. Aubrey
July 14, 2006 - 03:17 pm
hehehe Alliemae hahaha OK confusion we have lift off -- hehehehe but fun aside the poem does have a lot of political irony in it doesn't it - however, my take is that he is saying all that because he is angry in general and particularly pissed at the wives who will not bear and hide their issues with beer...

Scrawler I do like the poems where he describes the landscape - he can do it so that you are moving along over the land rather than from one point of view - like your choice of Eurunderee:

annafair
July 14, 2006 - 04:54 pm
I have read all the posts, poems and comments and I will go back and re read and comment myself but for me today I need a few minutes of peace. Of allowing my mind to think pleasent thoughts, to think of simple things and thought perhaps you could use a few minutes too So I post a poem by Mary Oliver ..Peace be with you ..anna

Freshen the Flowers , She Said


So I put them in the sink, for the cool porcelain
was tender;
and took out the tattered and cut each stem
on a slant,
trimmed the black and raggy leaves, and set them all-
roses, delphiniums, daisies , iris, lilies
and more whose names I do not know, in bright new water-
gave them


a bounce upward at the end to let them take
their own choice of position, the wheels , the spurs,
the little sheds of the buds. It took , to do this
perhaps fifteen minutes.
Fifteen minutes of music
with nothing playing.


Mary Oliver

anneofavonlea
July 14, 2006 - 05:56 pm
So in out of the snow, reading seniornet.

Allie May, Lawson had strong ideological views, though in todays society he may well be considered a socialist, because he believed in equality for workin men and wanted Australia to cut her ties with England, and become a republic.

He was horrifed however at the prospect of Australia being overtaken by the "yellow peril", and felt we needed to be a european nation. As this was in the early 1900's when the white Australia policy was still part of the political aggenda, he had an essentially racist view about asians. Whether this still exists here is still up for discussion as we do tend to be "scared" of anything considered unaustralian, with no particular reason.

Sorry this is probably more explanation of the black mood of Lawson than you required, but it does help serve understanding of his work. He was indeed a peculiar man. lol.

Anneo, (in out of the snow)

Alliemae
July 15, 2006 - 06:28 am
Hi anneo, no...not at all too much in fact, exactly what I was looking for so thank you very much! See, there WAS a reason you came in out of the snow!!

I enjoy learning the context of the poems and poets...it makes what they have written so much more easily understandable for me.

Thanks again, Alliemae (staying out of our Philadelphia heat wave today!)

Alliemae
July 15, 2006 - 07:21 am
(while still looking for a shorter poem I found this one and it touched my heart at Henry Lawson's pride of his dear Australia...)

They have eaten their fill at your tables spread,
Like friends since the land was won;
And they rise with a cry of "Australia's dead!"
With the wheeze of "Australia's done!"
Oh, the theme is stale, but they tell the tale
(How the weak old tale will keep!)
Like the crows that croak on a splintered rail,
That have gorged on a rotten sheep.

I would sing a song in your darkest hour
In your darkest hour and mine –
For I see the dawn of your wealth and power,
And I see your bright star shine.
The little men yelp and the little men lie,
And they spread the lies afar;
But we heed them never, my Land and I,
For we know how small they are.

They know you not in a paltry town –
In the streets where great hopes die –
Oh, heart that never a flood could drown,
And never a drought could dry!
Stand forth from the rim where the red sun dips,
Strong son of the land's own son –
With the grin of grit on your drought-chapped lips
And say, is your country done?

Stand forth from the land where the sunset dies,
By the desolate lonely shed,
With the smile of faith in your blighted eyes,
And say, is your country dead?
They see no future, they know no past –
The parasite cur and clown,
Who talk of ruin and death to last
When a man or a land is down.

God sends for answer the rain, the rain,
And away on the western lease,>BR> The limitless plain grows green again,
And the fattening stock increase.
We'll lock your rivers, my land, my land,
Dig lakes on the furthest run –
While down in the corners where houses stand,
They drivel, "Australia's done!"

The parasites dine at your tables spread
(As my enemies did at mine),
And they croak and gurgle, "Australia's dead"
While they guzzle Australian wine.
But we heed them never, my land, my land,
For we know how small they are,
And we see the signs of a future grand,
As we gaze on a rising star.

Henry Lawson

Alliemae
July 15, 2006 - 05:38 pm
re: Freshen the Flowers , She Said

How very 'Mary Oliver'...and I thought, wouldn't it be lovely if I touched things so gently that even hard surface like porcelain I would find tender, which it is when you think about it if you keep it so.

I love being reminded of Mary Oliver's sense of dynamics between people and objects and people and nature and people and people.

It's a tender person who can bring out another's soft side.

Alliemae

annafair
July 16, 2006 - 07:17 am
When you read Lawson's poetry there is single theme that runs through them to me His love of his country,.He sees the bad and the good and embraces them all. He wants Australia to be its best.He wants the best for its people whom he shows he loves warts and all.While there is no date on the poem I am sharing today it seems he is recognizing his poor health and wants to make this last statement ..When I think about people who for whatever misdeed deemed to deserve being sent to a penal colony far from the land of thier birth and family ( and as we note for really misdeamors not heinous crimes)it really touches me. The American Revolution helped to make Australia the place of choice since it closed America for a place of punishment and exile. This poem like many of Lawson's poems gives me a sense of poignancy that first he is not the man he had hoped to be and second Australia that he loves is not yet the country he hopes it will become

Here is the poem I chose >> to me it shows clearly Lawson's love of Australia His hope that even in death he might make a difference..anna

WIDE SPACES


When the man I was denounces all the things that I was not,
When the true souls stand like granite, while the souls of liars not –
When the quids I gave are counted, and the trays I cadged forgot;


Shall my spirit see the country that it wrote for once again?
Shall it see the old selections, and the common street and lane?
Shall it pass across the Black Soil and across the Red Soil Plain?


Shall it see the gaunt Bushwoman "slave until she's fit to drop",
For the distant trip to Sydney, all depending on the crop?
Or the twinkling legs of kiddies, running to the lollie-shop?


Shall my spirit see the failures battling west and fighting here?
Shall it see the darkened shanty, or the bar-room dull and drear?
Shall it whisper to the landlord to give Bummer Smith a beer?


Will they let me out of Heaven, or Valhalla, on my own –
Or the Social Halls of Hades (where I shall not be alone) –
Just to bring a breath of comfort to the hells that I have known?


Henry Lawson

MarjV
July 16, 2006 - 10:31 am
Wow, Anna, that poem gave me goosebumps. Such a soul searching.

And it goes along just fine with this excerpt from Alliemae's post:

"And we see the signs of a future grand,
As we gaze on a rising star."

From Wide Spaces:
Shall my spirit see the country that it wrote for once again?
Shall it see the old selections, and the common street and lane?
Shall it pass across the Black Soil and across the Red Soil Plain?

I would be inclined to agree that "Wide Spaces" was a poem written during his decline in body.

Scrawler
July 16, 2006 - 11:50 am
If you fancy that your people came of better stock than mine,
If you hint of higher breeding by a word or by a sign,
If you're proud because of fortune or the clever things you do -
Then I'll play no second fiddle: I'm a produer man than you!

If you think that your profession has the more gentility,
And that you are condescending to be seen along with me;
If you notice that I'm shabby while your clothes are spruce and
new
You have only got to hint it: I'm a prouder man than you!

If you have a swell companion when you see me on the street,
And you think that I'm too common for your toney friend to meet,
So that I, in passing closely, fail to come within your view -
Then be blind to me for ever: I'm a prouder man than you!

If your character be blameless, if your outward past be clean,
While 'tis known my antecedents are not what they should have
been,
Do not risk contamination, save your name whate'er you do -
'Birds of feather fly together': I'm a prouder bird than you!

Keep your patronage for others! Gold and station cannot hide
Friendship that can laugh at fortune, friendship that can conquer
pride!
Offer this as to an equal - let me see that your are true,
And my wall of pride is shattered: I am not so proud as you!

~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

I think this poem was written in tongue and cheek. I can't help but wonder what Lawson must have gone through in order for him to write this poem. My grandfather used to tell me that when he first came to America from Greece that very often those who were born here or who came first would look to him as if he were below them. He used to tell me that if someone thinks of you in a negative way it is there problem not yours. He advised me to let whatever was said roll off my back. I've always remembered that.

BaBi
July 16, 2006 - 02:31 pm
Interesting, Scrawler. I thought the poem was expressing exactly what he felt. A man too proud to want the acquaintance, much less the friendship, of one who looked down on him. At attitude of 'if you don't want to know me when I'm wearing my work duds, then I don't want to know you at all'. Pride isn't found only in the 'upper classes', and that's a fact.

Your grandfather had the right idea. People forming opinions without knowledge do have a problem. And exclusive little cliques can be quite put out when the person they are ignoring is blithely unaware or couldn't care less. Lawson, however, was definitely aware...and had plenty to say about it!

Babi

MarjV
July 16, 2006 - 03:51 pm
I agree with Babi - Lawson , as I see him, is a straightforward kind of guy. And he wants no truck with those who look down on him . Not a very nice experience. I don't want to be bothered with them either, thank you-

~Marj

annafair
July 16, 2006 - 06:11 pm
I agree Lawson tells it like it is and we all are in agreement We dont miss the friendship of those who think that somehow they are better for any reason. and I like the poem..too hot here to think! hope some of you are cooler. always, anna

Jim in Jeff
July 17, 2006 - 04:18 pm
Annafair...high temp today in Forks, Washington was 65 degrees. Read and weep, forum friends!

I'm not here much, lately; my loss. Lots of posted Lawson poems and forum friends' quality comments on them here since my last visit.

But your posts/comments convince me that Lawson was a bigot. Perhaps he wasn't. But here's why I see him as one so far, right now:

His white fathers took Australia away from the land's "aboriginines" using superior technical force to do so. And his hatred of "Orientals" has been discussed here earlier. Also, I betcha he also considered "women" secondary citizens. White male bigots are obviously NOT my "cup-of-tea."

To me it's no fun to applaud a blatant bigot, racist, drunkard, rowdy son-of-a bitch. His poems do tell fun stories about...WHITE Australia. But so did USA's Marty Robbins (poem/stories in song about his SW USA).

Lawson's contemporary Paterson wasn't so blatant a bigot, but he too wrote mostly from a "white conquerers" perspective. As I see it.

We in USA also over-ran OUR country's "aborigines." So we've no historical right to lambast Aussies who did exact-same. But...we in USA do today recognize our Native-American brothers' culture. Lawson didn't have the sense to recognize his debt to his, I think.

I apologize for these mostly-negative thoughts. I try to post mostly positive thoughts. I maybe need to re-read Lawson's poem-stories.

Alliemae
July 17, 2006 - 06:28 pm
I found this poem today and it makes Henry Lawson even more an enigma to me than he was even before Jim's post.

Maybe we could discuss this poem and see how each of us (or at least those of us who wish to venture a guess or opinion) thinks about Lawson.

I was going to ask for help with the last verse anyway as I couldn't figure out exactly what Henry Lawson meant us to understand of it.



Australian Bards And Bush Reviewers

While you use your best endeavour to immortalise in verse
The gambling and the drink which are your country's greatest curse,
While you glorify the bully and take the spieler's(*) part --
You're a clever southern writer, scarce inferior to Bret Harte.

If you sing of waving grasses when the plains are dry as bricks,
And discover shining rivers where there's only mud and sticks;
If you picture `mighty forests' where the mulga(**) spoils the view --
You're superior to Kendall, and ahead of Gordon too.

If you swear there's not a country like the land that gave you birth,
And its sons are just the noblest and most glorious chaps on earth;
If in every girl a Venus your poetic eye discerns,
You are gracefully referred to as the `young Australian Burns'.

But if you should find that bushmen -- spite of all the poets say --
Are just common brother-sinners, and you're quite as good as they --
You're a drunkard, and a liar, and a cynic, and a sneak,
Your grammar's simply awful and your intellect is weak.

Henry Lawson

  • spieler's
  • * mulga
    Also, does anyone know the meaning of these two words?

    Thanks, Alliemae
  • annafair
    July 17, 2006 - 11:42 pm
    poetry from another land is we dont truly understand where the poet is coming from. I think we make assumptions based on what we think the poet is saying. I am not sure everyone understands what a bushman is. I did some research and my understanding a bushman in Australia is the equivalant of the cowboys of our west. It was a lonely life, a hard life, And without men willing to lead that life the West of our country and the outback of Australia would never have been settled. :Lawson and a number of Australian poets lived and wrote during the time when Australia was being settled. Thier poems are going to tell what they saw and felt and knew. All we can ask of any poet is to tell it like it was to them . They are going to bring us thier life in poetic form with warts and all. Like most of us they are not perfect. What we have to do is try to see what they saw and feel what they felt.

    Besides Lawson and Patterson there were any number of poets from those times including women and one who became DAME of the British Empire Mary Durack .. It is hard to find poems by these poets I guess because our search engines are not full of thier works. I am looking into them and feel if I can find some I will post their poems as well to give us insight into the poetry of Australia.

    We are not always going to find we love the poet we are discussing but since Lawson is considered by many Austrailians one of if not the greatest poets of his time telling it like it was. I dont think we can dismiss him but find what we can in his poetry .He has recorded a time that is disappearing as our west is disappearing . Since I had an uncle who was a cowboy and one who was a wildcatter oil man I have a small idea of how harsh and hard that life was. They gave up that life to become a "regular " citizen but it colored their whole life. One when I was visiting them suffered from heat exhaustion while working on his farm ..and my aunt was trying to make him comfortable and I can still hear his voice coming from thier bedroom DONT TAKE MY BOOTS OFF I WANT TO DIE WITH MY BOOTS ON!

    These men were a different breed ..so I think we can give them a bit of slack for if were had lived in thier time , born poor and in Lawson's case deaf ( and since I am getting there I understand the isolation that can bring) perhaps we would have just lived and died and never recorded that time and our life.

    Here is a poem by another poet from that time I thought we might compare. anna

    Bush Verses
    The Call of Fate


    I remember the hut where I was born, a dreamer whose dreams were light;
    Where the sun-beams stole through the slabs by day, and the stars through the roof by night.


    The call of Fate through the open door, came stealing as by design,
    To find perchance a responsive chord, and the answering call was mine.


    I remember the swirling mountain stream, with its hidden golden store;
    Where the diggers delved in the long ago, half a hundred years or more.


    The dauntless spirits that dared the worst, from forest and flame, or flood,
    That stirred ambition in my heart, and the wanderlust in my blood.


    I remember the dingo on the range, that howled when the bush was still;
    To the monotone of the mopoke's call, and the curlew chorus shrill.


    The medley born of the solitudes, of things unfettered and free;
    An echo of Nature's wildest moods, yet ever a song to me.


    I remember the top-most snow-clad heights, aglow with the morning gleams;
    I roamed at will when a wayward boy, and in after years in dreams.


    When Morpheus wielding a magic wand, brought wizard-like back to mind,
    An old slab hut by a purling stream, with the snow capped hills behind.


    I remember the homing wild birds' song, that came like a clarion call;
    As when in the midst of the multitude, I heard it high over all.


    And when a scout in the desert waste, alone 'neath a foreign sky,
    The curlew's wail and the dingo's howl, came back in the jackal's cry.


    I remember the lure of the virgin gold, that led like a temptress on;
    And gave but little recompense, for the prime of a life-time gone,


    But memories come of days that were, and amply remunerate;
    The dreamer, who heard through the open door, and answered - "The Call of Fate".


    This refers to the hut where I was born on the bank of Morses Creek, Wandilligong, on the 16th of July, 1866.


    By Wm Jas Wye

    MarjV
    July 18, 2006 - 06:30 am
    Bio of W J Wye

    Thanks for that poet, Anna.

    MarjV
    July 18, 2006 - 10:17 am
    Much to explore on his web site that contains numerous poems. http://www.lesmurray.org/

    I chose this one to post because I don't remember a Lawson poem that included the Aboriginal.

    The Aboriginal Cricketer / Les Murray

    Good-looking young man
    in your Crimean shirt
    with your willow shield
    up, as if to face spears,

    you're inside their men's Law,
    one church they do obey;
    they'll remember you were here.
    Keep fending off their casts.

    Don't come out of character.
    Like you they suspect
    idiosyncrasy of witchcraft.
    Above all, don't get out

    too easily, and have to leave here
    where all missiles are just leather
    and come from one direction.<bn> Keep it noble. Keep it light

    There is a copy of a painting from 1854 to illustrate Murray's poem.

    annafair
    July 18, 2006 - 12:02 pm
    thanks for that poem I think a look at some of Australian poets perhaps would benefit us all I looked up Mary Hannay Foott who was born in Glasgow 9/26.1846 andn came to Australia n 1853 which would make her 7 , her bio did not tell why she ended in Australia but her father was a minister so perhaps he was assigned there. Her education was in a seminary and she married Thomas Foott in 1874. She was a poet and this is one of her poems. Her poems are more gentile than Lawson . I like to show the comparison here of a man who led a rough and harsh life, whose addiction to alcohol caused him a great bit of problem The poverty of his childhood and this woman who also writes of that time ..I think what I am saying our poetry for the most part reflects our life. Mary's poem is also about the harsh area where she lived and knew and dont forget Opal was found in the mountains in Australia as well as the gold in the streams and these people known I would think to the author or perhaps she is telling us that anyone who went into the harsh land would find it hard and like the ones in her poem never returned ..To me I am seeing a land I have only read about in news items and not in any depth. and the more I read the more I am impressed ..England I am sure never guessed when they made Australia a penal colony how she would develope ..like the men and women who came to America the ones that came on thier own hoped to have something England couldnt offer .. LAND to own with no vast estates to become a worker in but land you worked for yourself . anna

    Where the Pelican Builds


    The horses were ready, the rails were down,
    But the riders lingered still --
    One had a parting word to say,
    And one had his pipe to fill.
    Then they mounted, one with a granted prayer,
    And one with a grief unguessed.
    "We are going," they said, as they rode away --
    "Where the pelican builds her nest!"


    They had told us of pastures wide and green,
    To be sought past the sunset's glow;
    Of rifts in the ranges by opal lit;
    And gold 'neath the river's flow.
    And thirst and hunger were banished words
    When they spoke of that unknown West;
    No drought they dreaded, no flood they feared,
    Where the pelican builds her nest!


    The creek at the ford was but fetlock deep
    When we watched them crossing there;
    The rains have replenished it thrice since then,
    And thrice has the rock lain bare.
    But the waters of Hope have flowed and fled,
    And never from blue hill's breast
    Come back -- by the sun and the sands devoured --
    Where the pelican builds her nest.


    Mary Hannay Foott

    MarjV
    July 18, 2006 - 12:21 pm
    Mary Foott reminds me a bit of Mary Oliver in her pointing to "where the pelicans build their nest" as a point of nature.

    hats
    July 18, 2006 - 12:35 pm
    OLD MAN PLATYPUS

    Far from the trouble and toil of town,
    Where the reed-beds sweep and shiver,
    Look at a fragment of velvet brown --
    Old Man Platypus drifting down,
    Drifting along the river.


    And he plays and dives in the river bends
    In a style that is most elusive;
    With few relations and few friends,
    For Old man Platypus descends
    From a family most exclusive.


    He shares his burrow beneath the bank
    With his wife and his son and daughter
    At the roots of the reeds and the grasses rank;
    And the bubbles show where our hero sank
    To its entrance under the water.


    Safe in their burrow below the falls
    They live in a world of wonder,
    Where no one visits and no one calls
    They sleep like little brown billiard balls
    With their beaks tucked neatly under.
    Platypus


    And he talks in a deep unfriendly growl
    As he goes on his journey lonely;
    For he's no relation to fish nor fowl,
    Nor to bird, nor beast, nor to horned owl,
    In fact, he's the one and only!


    bluegumtrees

    Australia seems like a country where there are many different animals. I bet it's a lot of fun to visit an Australian zoo.

    MarjV
    July 18, 2006 - 12:39 pm
    Alliemae - > spieler is someone who talks and talks and talks extravagantly > mulga is a type of shrub or small tree native to the outback of Australia.

    I think in that poem Lawson was asking for people to "tell it like it is" and not try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

    MarjV
    July 18, 2006 - 12:41 pm
    Oh I love that Platypus poem !!!! They are sure a wondrous creation.

    hats
    July 18, 2006 - 12:42 pm
    This isn't a poem. The plant life in Australia is just beautiful.

    Bluegumtrees

    Scroll down and look for "flowers."

    hats
    July 18, 2006 - 12:47 pm
    Anna, thank you. I really enjoyed "Where the Pelican Builds" by Mary Hannay Foott. I didn't realize there were so many Australian poets. Each poet is bringing us a look at the country. I think Anna already posted that thought in better words than I.

    MarjV
    July 18, 2006 - 01:32 pm
    That page you posted has poems on it , Hats. Several poets I've not seen before today. Thanks

    hats
    July 18, 2006 - 01:35 pm
    MarjV, I am glad.

    annafair
    July 18, 2006 - 01:49 pm
    What a great poem to share I laughed out loud ,...a good laugh because it was a funny poem and written in a humorous way ..I could almost feel the platypus was writing it himself LOL Thanks for that link as well and I am going to post some of those poets That is a better link than the one I found ...have I told you lately ( I mean everyone who posts? )YOU ARE A WONDERFUL GROUP TO BE WITH..anna

    hats
    July 18, 2006 - 01:59 pm
    Anna, you are a wonderful Discussion Leader.

    Scrawler
    July 18, 2006 - 02:12 pm
    Alliemae: I googled "spieler's" but the explanation came up in German and unfortantely I can't read or write German.

    "In botany, a Mulga (Acacia anerua) is a shrub or small tree native to arid outback Astralia. More broadly, mulga is any of many similar species, or more broadly still, a landscape where the flora is dominated either by Mulga or by similar species. This third usage is probalby the most common of the three." htp://www.answers.com/topic/mugla

    Bret Hare (Francis Brett Harte), 1836-1902, was an American author and poet, best remembered for his accounts of pioneering life in California. Born in Albany, New York, he moved to California in 1854, later working there in a number of capacities, including miner, teacher, messenger, and journalist. http://www.answers.com/main

    I thought perhaps Kendall and Gordon referred to poets or writers, but in my research I came across Gordon River. The Gordon River is one of the major rivers of Tasmania. It rises in the centre of the island and flows westward. Major tributaries include teh Serpentine River and the Franklin River. The Gordon River empties into Macquarie Harbour on the West Coast of Tasmania. http://www.answers.com/topic/gordon-river

    As far as an explanation for this poem is concerned I think that Lawson is saying that as long as the poet expresses himself in broad exageration he will be considered a genius, but if he expresses himself in natural or realistic terms he is considered a: "drunkard, and a liar, a cynic and a sneak,/your grammar's simply awful and your intellect is weak." In short people, at least in his time, don't want realistic poetry, but rather want poetry that resembles Keats or Burns.

    MarjV
    July 18, 2006 - 02:51 pm
    Scrawler - if you had read my post you would have seen I addressed the definitions of those words.

    anneofavonlea
    July 18, 2006 - 04:31 pm
    Jim, down here in the snow and not prepared to go looking for to many examples, but of course lawson was a bigot, he was writing in the early 1900's, and Australia as a nation had the now infamous "white australia policy".

    Also have no intention of comparing our policy of treating aboriginals badly with other countries policys, as we could find a myriad of examples where your country and mine have much to be ashamed of in our treatment of the previous owners of our land.Lets hope we have all matured.

    You may be interested to know Lawson didn't think much of "Yanks" either, but I was polite enough not to post said poem,because it may be offensive.

    Anneo

    anneofavonlea
    July 18, 2006 - 04:41 pm
    BULLOCKY

    Beside his heavy-shouldered team,
    thirsty with drought and chilled with rain,
    he weathered all the striding years
    till they ran widdershins in his brain:

    Till the long solitary tracks
    etched deeper with each lurching load
    were populous before his eyes,
    and fiends and angels used his road.

    All the straining journey grew
    a mad apocalyptic dream,
    and he old Moses, and the slaves
    his suffering and stubborn team.

    Then in his evening camp beneath
    the half-light pillars of the trees
    he filled the steepled cone of night
    with shouted prayers and prophecies.

    While past the campfire's crimson ring
    the star-strick darkness cupped him round,
    and centuries of cattle-bells
    rang with their sweet uneasy sound.

    Grass is across the wagon-tracks,
    and plough strikes bone across the grass,
    and vineyards cover all the slopes
    where the dead teams were used to pass.

    O vine, grow close upon that bone
    and hold it with your rooted hand.
    The prophet Moses feeds the grape,
    and fruitful is the Promised Land.

    anneofavonlea
    July 18, 2006 - 04:56 pm
    NO MORE BOOMERANG

    No more boomerang
    No more spear;
    Now all civilised --
    Colour bar and beer.

    No more corroboree,
    Gay dance and din.
    Now we got movies,
    And pay to go in.

    No more sharing
    What the hunter brings.
    Now we work for money,
    Then pay it back for things.

    Now we track bosses
    To catch a few bob,
    Now we go walkabout
    On bus to the job.

    One time naked,
    Who never knew shame;
    Now we put clothes on
    To hide whatsaname.

    No more gunya,
    Now bungalow,
    Paid by hire purchase
    In twenty year or so.

    Lay down the stone axe,
    Take up the steel,
    And work like a nigger
    For a white man meal.

    No more firesticks
    That made the whites scoff.
    Now all electric,
    And no better off.

    Bunyip he finish,
    Now got instead
    White fella Bunyip, Call him Red.


    Abstract picture now --
    What they coming at?
    Cripes, in our caves we
    Did better than that.

    Black hunted wallaby,
    White hunt dollar;
    White fella witchdoctor
    Wear dog-collar.

    No more message-stick;
    Lubras and lads.
    Got television now,
    Mostly ads.

    Lay down the woomera,
    Lay down the waddy.
    Now we got atom-bomb,
    End everybody.

    BaBi
    July 18, 2006 - 04:58 pm
    Alliemae, I would take spielers to be something like salesmen, circus barkers, anyone who has a 'spiel', a 'pitch' in frequent use.

    Babi

    anneofavonlea
    July 18, 2006 - 05:13 pm
    Said Hanrahan P.J. Hartigan ("John O’Brien")



    "We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan
    In accents most forlorn
    Outside the church ere Mass began
    One frosty Sunday morn.
    The congregation stood about,
    Coat-collars to the ears,
    And talked of stock and crops and drought
    As it had done for years.

    "It’s lookin’ crook," said Daniel Croke;
    "Bedad, it’s cruke, me lad
    For never since the banks went broke
    Has seasons been so bad."

    "It’s dry, all right," said young O’Neil,
    With which astute remark
    He squatted down upon his heel
    And chewed a piece of bark.

    And so around the chorus ran
    "It’s keepin’ dry, no doubt."
    "We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "Before the year is out.

    "The crops are done; ye’ll have your work
    To save one bag of grain;
    From here way out to Back-O’-Bourke
    They’re singin’ out for rain.

    "They’re singin’ out for rain," he said,
    "And all the tanks are dry."
    The congregation scratched its head,
    And gazed around the sky.

    "There won’t be grass, in any case,
    Enough to feed an ass;
    There’s not a blade on Casey’s place
    As I came down to Mass."

    "If rain don’t come this month," said Dan,
    And cleared his throat to speak –
    "We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    " If rain don’t come this week."

    A heavy silence seemed to steal
    On all at this remark;
    And each man squatted on his heel,
    And chewed a piece of bark.

    "We want an inch of rain, we do,"
    O’Neil observed at last;
    But Croke "maintained" we wanted two
    To put the danger past.

    "If we don’t get three inches, man,
    Or four to break this drought,
    We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "Before the year is out."
    In God’s good time down came the rain;
    And all the afternoon
    On iron roof and window-pane
    It drummed a homely tune.

    And through the night it pattered still,
    And lightsome, gladsome elves
    On dripping spout and window-sill
    Kept talking to themselves.

    It pelted, pelted all day long,
    A-singing at its work,
    Till every heart took up the song
    Way out to Back-O’-Bourke.

    And every creek a banker ran,
    And dams filled overtop;
    "We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "If this rain doesn’t stop."

    And stop it did, in God’s good time:
    And spring came in to fold
    A mantle o’er the hills sublime
    Of green and pink and gold.

    And days went by on dancing feet,
    With harvest-hopes immense,
    And laughing eyes beheld the wheat
    Nid-nodding o’er the fence.

    And, oh, the smiles on every face,
    As happy lad and lass
    Through grass knee-deep on Casey’s place
    Went riding down to Mass.

    While round the church in clothes genteel
    Discoursed the men of mark,
    And each man squatted on his heel,
    And chewed his piece of bark.

    "There’ll be bush-fires for sure, me man,
    There will, without a doubt;
    We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
    "Before the year is out

    annafair
    July 18, 2006 - 06:02 pm
    What great poems although I loved the last one best. It made me laugh and think how many people are like Hanrahan and it makes me smile to think of how many I have known Oh gee. thanks for the poems and I am so glad we are doing Lawson since he opened the door to other Australian poets and I am grateful to discover them and hear what they had to say..and the bonus of learning about a country that I have been ignorant of ..that is like icing on a cake. Hope it isnt too cold there but I guess if it is a ski resort they NEED cold and snow.. I will think of your snow and perhaps become cooler subliminly MIND OVER MATTER ! I am cooler already of course it may be due to the fact I lowered the temp on the a/c to 74 I was really too warm indoors with 75 although I think 74.5 would be ideal! wherever everyone is and whomever you are I hope your day is just right..anna

    Alliemae
    July 18, 2006 - 06:37 pm
    Oh my goodness...BaBi, thanks! It sure does make sense!!

    anneo Enjoyed those poems...seems the more 'basic' a poem is to a culture, the more I enjoy it! Really loved NO MORE BOOMERANG...have heard some jokes with similar ideas and outcomes made by our Native Americans...

    Alliemae

    anneofavonlea
    July 18, 2006 - 06:48 pm
    It is still raining, which means we are gathering around log fire, drinking Irish Coffee. I actually had a lot of people looking in here, they were delighted to see all the discussion about Aussie poetry, and everyone has a favourite, like you I like the Irish stuff.

    John Obrien was a priest, and that was a pseudonym, think his name was hartigan, anyway the poetry is under "Around the Boree Log", and has that Irish twinkle about it.

    My favourite aussie poet is Judith Wright, because she was a contemporary, I think poets often lead the way to new ideas, a bit like cartoons do. I know that as we all sit here quoting rote learned poetry, it has a lovely binding quality. We may indeed find the worst of us in our national poetry, but we all so find the best.

    You are indeed a great leader here, as your gentle poets soul, is open to anything and everything.

    Anneo

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    July 19, 2006 - 09:50 am
    Did we address here that Lawson was Deaf? Another Lawson Bio

    And thinking of his personal life issues with drink - I wonder - to me I have said many of his poems are looking at life as a half empty glass - I just wonder if this man was Bipolar - there are so many even today who, in order to handle the depression turn to drink not knowing they are Bipolar - in fact many who are on medication but are not in on-going therapy turn to drink. Certainly in the nineteenth century no one would have known of this disease - I am thinking Bipolar over the Gene that is at the root of alcoholism because this man is of Norwegian heritage which is a part of the world with a long history of Depression and Bipolarism.

    Found this web site by the Australian Government that gives a short history of Australian Poets Of course the Jindyworobaks caught my attention - such a word - my goodness - talk about having a new word to use playing scrapple. And so of course had to find a poem or two written by this group of Australian poets who explore the landscape with Aboriginal culture coloring their vocabulary.

    The Camp Fires of the Past

    A thousand, thousand camp fires every night,
    in ages gone, would twinkle to the dark
    from crest and valley in the rolling bush,
    from mulga scrub and mallee scrub, from dunes
    of Central sand, from gaps in straggling ranges,
    from gibber plains and plains of iron-wood,
    through leaves and in the open, from the mangroves
    by shore of Carpenteria, from rocks
    and beaches of the Bight.....for countless aeons,
    a thousand, thousand camp fires burned each night,
    and, by the fires, the Old Men told their tales
    which held their listeners spellbound.... Every night
    among the fires men chanted to the beat
    of stick and boomerangs and clap of hands,
    or drone-and-boom of didgeridoo, the songs
    rising and falling, trailing, quickening,
    while eyes gleamed bright, through smoke drift, bodies shone
    and dusked in fitful glow amid the shadows.......

    by Adelaide poet, Rex Ingamells, who established the Jindyworobaks

    annafair
    July 19, 2006 - 12:30 pm
    Several times and I have tried to to let people see beyond the poems to the poet. Knowing something of the poet's life I think helps us to understand the poetry he/she writes. I dont know if any one agrees with me but while a fiction writer makes up a story I have always felt the a poet FEELS the words he writes It comes from the poets expierence They may use metaphors to explain but when you read thier history you can see in my mind why they wrote,. As I have said they cannot not write .. their feelings are too strong to ignore,. Lawson was totally deaf by the time he was 14 but it started when he was 7 and caused him a lot of grief since school mates teased him so,

    By the way THANKS for the link, every link seems to makes a chain to understanding the poet's poems because we also understand what kind of life he lived.

    I love the poem you posted .. it was so vivid it made me SEE those campfires and those people and reminds me we did not arrive here in the year 2006 in a new millenium like a new thing . but are the results of at the least thousands of years of existence or perhaps millions ..and at some time in that history we were all natives of some other land WE WERE ABORIGINAL .. and as mankind progressed those earlier WE"S were dispossessed . and changed and became the whos we are today. the NEW MEN I think always have a tendency to look back on the OLD MEN with a jaundiced eye and with a feeling of being superior I would venture to say a 1000 years from this day whoever is alive then will view us a very primitive race ..

    For me I can forgive most flaws in a poet ...because I am listening to his story , I am seeing what he saw and how he felt. and I am using the word he here to cover mankind not a specific sex or time.

    Each poet we have discussed has taken us into their time and thier life and said to us THIS IS HOW IT WAS and How it affected me. I love books and especially history books but it is from the poets I really feel those times.

    I took the time to read the links and will return with another poem but thank those who have posted a poem because when I read them I am transported to other times and other places, To faces long gone but who seem clear as if I were looking at them this minute. anna

    annafair
    July 19, 2006 - 12:39 pm
    Am I understanding you when you say the people at your ski resort were reading our posts and were pleased to see us discussing Australian poets? In the vernacular of the young I think that is AWESOME..AND it caused you all to share poems memorized from your past? Do you realize there were whole tribes who did just that? and by sharing the memorized poems ( often written by the person or most likely made up on the spot) others memorized those poems and they were passed down so that a favorite poem would be shared many years in the future. AND poetry is at its best when it is read aloud and shared Hooray for you .. love to you always , say Hello to all there. Keep warm and enjoy ..anna

    Scrawler
    July 19, 2006 - 02:23 pm
    The creek went down with a broken song.
    'Neath the sheoaks high;
    The waters carried the song along,
    And the oaks a sigh.

    The song and the sign went winding by,
    Went winding down;
    Circling the foot of the mountain high,
    And the hillside brown.

    They were hushed in the swamp of the Dead Man's Crime,
    Where the curlews cried;
    But they reached the river the self-same time,
    And thee they died.

    And the creek of life goes winding on,
    Wandering by;
    And bears for ever, its course upon,
    A song and a sigh.

    ~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    I like the last stanza of this poem: And the creek of life goes winding on/ wndering by;/And bears for ever, its course upon/ a song and a sigh.

    BaBi
    July 19, 2006 - 04:08 pm
    Ahh, well, and you know Hanrahan canna be happy unless he's forecasting doom. We've all known Hanrahan, under some name or other.

    Babi

    Alliemae
    July 20, 2006 - 05:58 am
    "Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    rouseabout

    One entry found for rouseabout.

    Main Entry: rouse·about Pronunciation: 'rau-z&-"baut Function: noun Australian : an unskilled worker"

    I selected this poem because I didn't know the meaning of Rouseabout. One of the joys I've experienced while reading Henry Lawson and the other Australian poets is that there are so many words I didn't know and I love learning new words, especially since these Australian words are so expressive sounding I can't resist them. I added in the definition just in case anyone else wasn't familiar with the word.

    Middleton's Rouseabout

    Tall and freckled and sandy,
    Face of a country lout;
    This was the picture of Andy,
    Middleton's Rouseabout.

    Type of a coming nation,
    In the land of cattle and sheep,
    Worked on Middleton's station,
    `Pound a week and his keep.'

    On Middleton's wide dominions
    Plied the stockwhip and shears;
    Hadn't any opinions,
    Hadn't any `idears'.

    Swiftly the years went over,
    Liquor and drought prevailed;
    Middleton went as a drover,
    After his station had failed.

    Type of a careless nation,
    Men who are soon played out,
    Middleton was: -- and his station
    Was bought by the Rouseabout.

    Flourishing beard and sandy,
    Tall and robust and stout;
    This is the picture of Andy,
    Middleton's Rouseabout.

    Now on his own dominions
    Works with his overseers;
    Hasn't any opinions,
    Hasn't any `idears'.

    Alliemae

    annafair
    July 20, 2006 - 01:28 pm
    You have mentioned one of the best reasons to study the poems and poets of different places. We begin the see the world. not just the small space we occupy but the world of different places, different words, different scenes and the people that lived there and live there now..

    I chose an Australian poet , a woman , nearer to our time who died in 2000, She longed to see Australia sort of forgo in some areas the inroads of modern times so let us hear what she has to say. Of course her poetry differs from Lawson and the poets of his time. So we are also seeing now only how a country has changed but how poetry has as well..anna

    Well I will have to come back .. I think the heat is affecting my computer Not indoors where it is cool but the lines leading in have to be hot as the temperature out side certainly is I will come back later Lost the poem in edit ..anna

    Scrawler
    July 20, 2006 - 02:14 pm
    The world has had enough of bards who wish that they were dead,
    'Tis time the people passed a law to kock 'em on the head,
    For 'twould be lovely if their friends could grant the rest they
    crave-
    Those bards of 'tears' and 'vanished hopes', those poets of the
    grave.
    They say that life's an awful thing, and full of care and gloom,
    They talk of peace and restfulness connected with the tomb.

    They say that man is made of dirt, and die, of course, he must;
    But all the same, a man is made of pretty solid dust.
    There is a thing that they forget, so let it here be writ,
    That some are made of common mud, and some are made of GRIT;
    Some try to help the world along while others fret and fume
    And with that they were slumbering in the silence of the tomb.

    'Twixt mother's arms and coffin-gear a man has work to do!
    And if he does his very best he mostly worries through,
    And while there is a wrong to right, and while the world goes
    around,
    An honest man alive is worth a million underground.
    And yet, as long as sheoaks sigh and wattle-blossoms bloom,
    The world shall hear the drivel of the poets of the tomb,

    And though the graveyard poets long to vanish from the scene,
    I notice that they mostly wish their resting - place kept green.
    Now, were I rotting underground, I do not think I'd care
    If wombats rooted on the mound or if the cows camped there;
    And should I have some feelings left when I have gone before,
    I think a ton of solid stone would hurt my feelings more.

    Such wormy songs of mouldy joys can give me no delight;
    I'll take my chances with the world. I'd rather live and fight.
    Though Fortune laughs along my track, or wears her blackest frown,
    I'll try to do the world some good before I tumble down.
    Let's fight for things that ought to be, and try to make 'em boom;
    We cannot help mankind when we are ashes in the tomb.

    ~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    I like this poem. I think he has the right idea. "Let's fight for things that ought to be, and try to make 'em boom;/We cannot help mankind when we are ashes in the tomb." The time is now to do something for our fellow man/woman; not after we are six feet under.

    annafair
    July 20, 2006 - 02:35 pm
    I loved that poem ..and Like you Henry and I are in agreement ..I dont care where I lie when I am gone nor whether it is kept green or disappears I am like my father who used to say when I am gone just put me in a Toesack ( potato sack) and throw me in the river..Henry made me smile at his thoughts as well as appreciate them.

    Here is the poem I wanted to post earlier .I am not sure of the year she wrote this but she was 85 when she died and it sounds to me like she is remembering her past. Having looked at some pictures of Australia I can SEE the place she is writing about ...and what a hard land it is...heat, cold, drought sometimes you have to wonder how people could keep hope alive ..from the mouths of poets I SEE and know what they write about ...anna

    South of my Days
    South of my days' circle, part of my blood's country,
    rises that tableland, high delicate outline
    of bony slopes wincing under the winter,
    low trees, blue-leaved and olive, outcropping granite-
    clean, lean, hungry country. The creek's leaf-silenced,
    willow choked, the slope a tangle of medlar and crabapple
    branching over and under, blotched with a green lichen;
    and the old cottage lurches in for shelter.


    O cold the black-frost night. the walls draw in to the warmth
    and the old roof cracks its joints; the slung kettle
    hisses a leak on the fire. Hardly to be believed that summer
    will turn up again some day in a wave of rambler-roses,
    thrust it's hot face in here to tell another yarn-
    a story old Dan can spin into a blanket against the winter.
    seventy years of stories he clutches round his bones,
    seventy years are hived in him like old honey.


    During that year, Charleville to the Hunter,
    nineteen-one it was, and the drought beginning;
    sixty head left at the McIntyre, the mud round them
    hardened like iron; and the yellow boy died
    in the sulky ahead with the gear, but the horse went on,
    stopped at Sandy Camp and waited in the evening.
    It was the flies we seen first, swarming like bees.
    Came to the Hunter, three hundred head of a thousand-
    cruel to keep them alive - and the river was dust.


    Or mustering up in the Bogongs in the autumn
    when the blizzards came early. Brought them down;
    down, what aren't there yet. Or driving for Cobb's on the run
    up from Tamworth-Thunderbolt at the top of Hungry Hill,
    and I give him a wink. I wouoldn't wait long, Fred,
    not if I was you. The troopers are just behind,
    coming for that job at the Hillgrove. He went like a luny,
    him on his big black horse.


    Oh, they slide and they vanish
    as he shuffles the years like a pack of conjuror's cards.
    True or not, it's all the same; and the frost on the roof
    cracks like a whip, and the back-log break into ash.
    Wake, old man. this is winter, and the yarns are over.
    No-one is listening
    South of my days' circle
    . I know it dark against the stars, the high lean country
    full of old stories that still go walking in my sleep.


    Judith Wright

    Alliemae
    July 21, 2006 - 07:18 am
    "There is a thing that they forget, so let it here be writ,
    That some are made of common mud, and some are made of GRIT;
    Some try to help the world along while others fret and fume
    And with that they were slumbering in the silence of the tomb."

    What first came shining very brightly into my mind when I read this poem and especially Scrawler's words, "I like this poem. I think he has the right idea. 'Let's fight for things that ought to be, and try to make 'em boom;/We cannot help mankind when we are ashes in the tomb.' The time is now to do something for our fellow man/woman; not after we are six feet under."

    ...was this excerpt from Longfellow's "Psalm of Life":

    "Trust no Future, howe're pleasant!
    Let the dead Past bury its dead!
    Act,--act in the living present!
    Heart within and God o'erhead!"

    And it's wonderful to see how each poet's own style--each of their very distinctive manners of speaking and expressing themselves-- though so different, states ultimately the same ideal:

    "Let us, then, be up and doing,
    With a heart for any fate;
    Still achieving, still pursuing,
    Learn to labor and to wait."

    To LIFE!!

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    July 21, 2006 - 12:00 pm
    Down the street as I was drifting with the city's human tide,
    Came a ghost, and for a moment walked in silence by my side-
    Now my heart was hard and bitter, and a bitter spirit he,
    So I felt no great aversion to his ghostly company.
    Said teh Shade: 'At finer feelings let your lip in scorn be
    curled,
    'Self and Pelf', my friend, has ever been the motto for the
    world.'

    And he said: 'If you'd be happy, you must clip your fancy's wings,
    Stretch your conscience at the edges to teh size of earthly
    things;
    Never fight another's battle, for a friend can never know
    When he'll gladly fly for succour to the bosom of the foe,
    At the power of truth and friendship let your lip in scorn be
    curled-
    'Self and Pelf', my friend, remember, is the motto of the world.

    'Where Society is mighty, always tuckle to her rule;
    Never send an 'i' undotted to the teacher of a school;
    Only fight a wrong or falsehood when the crowd is at your back,
    And, till Charity repay you, shut the purse, and let her pack;
    At the fools who would do other let your lip in scorn be curled,
    'Self and Pelf', my friend, remember that's the motto of the world.

    'Ne'er assail the shaky ladders Fame has from her niches hung,
    Lest unfriendly heels above you grind your fingers from the rung;
    Or the fools who idle under, envious of your fair renown,
    Heedless of the pain you suffer, do their worst to shake you down.
    At the praise of men, or censure, let your lip in scorn be curled,
    'Self and Pelf', my friend remember, is the motto of the world.

    'Flowing founts of inspiration leave the sources parched and dry,
    Scalding tears of indignation scar the hearts that beat too high;
    Chilly waters thrown upon it drown the fire that's in the bard:
    And the banter of the critic hurts his heart till it grows hard.
    At the fame your muse may offer let your lip in scorn be curled.
    'Self and Pelf', my friend, remember, that's the motto of the
    world.

    'Shun the fields of love, where lightly, to a low and mocking
    tune.
    Strong and useful lives are ruined, and the broken hearts are
    strewn.
    Not a farthing is the value of the honest love you hold;
    Call it lust, and make it serve you! Set your heart on nought but
    gold.
    At the bliss of purer passions let your lip in scorn be curled-
    'SElf and Pelf;, my friend shall ever be the motto of the world.'

    Then he ceased and looked intently in my face, and nearer drew;
    But a sudden deep repugnance to his presence thrilled me throuhg,
    Then I saw his face was cruel, by the look that o'er it stole,
    Then I felt his breath was poison, by shuddering of my soul.
    Then I guessed his purpose evil, by his lip in sneering curled. And I knew he slandered mankind, by my knowledge of the world.

    But he vanished as a purer brighter presence gained my side-
    'Heed him not! there's truth and friendship
    in this wondrous world.' she cried.
    And of those who cleave to virtue in their climbing for renown,
    Only they who faint or falter from the height are shaken down.
    At a cynic's baneful teaching let your lip in scorn be curled!
    'Brotherhood and Love and Honour!" is the motto of the world.' ~"In the Days When the World Was Wide" Henry Lawson

    If only we could believe that there is: truth and friendship in this wondrous world and that the motto of the world is: 'Brotherhood and Love and Honour!' Yet sometimes I fear that it is 'ghost' that is seen and that 'self and pelf' is the motto of the world. If only man/woman could see the 'sameness' in others instead of the 'differences' what a world this would be.

    BaBi
    July 21, 2006 - 02:26 pm
    I had to smile at the 'rouseabout' with no 'idears', while I respectfully decline to believe it. You don't wind up owning the place without something useful in your head. And of course the term put me in mind of our own 'roustabouts' of the oil fields. Tho' I wouldn't say they were entirely unskilled, it is very hard labor.

    ALLIEMAE, I liked your comparison of Longfellow poem with Lawson's. Most of the themes of poetry are universal, aren't they, and many different poets have expressed similar ideas in very different ways. I'd like to see more of that.

    Babi

    annafair
    July 22, 2006 - 08:49 am
    It looks like we are finding a similarity in what poets write, regardless of where they lived or the things they cared about. I have chosen a poem today called Eureka which is Lawsons poetic story of an uprising in the goldfields. It will be simpler for me to give you the link ( I find it interesting reading since history is one of my favorite things) You can check the link before or after but it will help to understand Lawsons poem This poem reminded me of some of the poems of our early country and of Robert Services poems about Alaska ...here is the link By the way I am often amazed how much poets get in a poem I am sure there is a book about this event but even after the bit I read I could see Lawson covered it well. Thinking of The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere among many...anna

    http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/articles/eurekastockade/

    Eureka


    Roll up, Eureka's heroes, on that grand Old Rush afar,
    For Lalor's gone to join you in the big camp where you are
    ; Roll up and give him welcome such as only diggers can,
    For well he battled for the rights of miner and of Man.
    In that bright golden country that lies beyond our sight,
    The record of his honest life shall be his Miner's Right;
    But many a bearded mouth shall twitch, and many a tear be shed,
    And many a grey old digger sigh to hear that Lalor's dead.
    Yet wipe your eyes, old fossickers, o'er worked-out fields that roam,
    You need not weep at parting from a digger going home.
    Now from the strange wild seasons past, the days of golden strife,
    Now from the Roaring Fifties comes a scene from Lalor's life:
    All gleaming white amid the shafts o'er gully, hill and flat
    Again I see the tents that form the camp at Ballarat.
    I hear the shovels and the picks, and all the air is rife
    With the rattle of the cradles and the sounds of digger-life;
    The clatter of the windlass-boles, as spinning round they go,
    And then the signal to his mate, the digger's cry, "Below!"
    From many a busy pointing-forge the sound of labour swells,
    The tinkling of the anvils is as clear as silver bells.
    I hear the broken English from the mouth of many a one
    From every state and nation that is known beneath the sun;
    The homely tongue of Scotland and the brogue of Ireland blend
    With the dialects of England, right from Berwick to Lands End;
    And to the busy concourse here the States have sent a part,
    The land of gulches that has been immortalised by Harte;
    The land where long from mining-camps the blue smoke upward curled;
    The land that gave the "Partner" true and "Mliss" unto the world;
    The men from all the nations in the New World and the Old,
    All side by side, like brethren here, are delving after gold.
    But suddenly the warning cries are heard on every side
    As closing in around the field, a ring of troopers ride,
    Unlicensed diggers are the game--their class and want are sins,
    And so with all its shameful scenes, the digger hunt begins.
    The men are seized who are too poor the heavy tax to pay,
    Chained man to man as convicts were, and dragged in gangs away.
    Though in the eyes of many a man the menace scarce was hid,
    The diggers' blood was slow to boil, but scalded when it did.


    But now another match is lit that soon must fire the charge
    "Roll up! Roll up!" the poignant cry awakes the evening air,
    And angry faces surge like waves around the speakers there.
    "What are our sins that we should be an outlawed class?" they say,
    "Shall we stand by while mates are seized and dragged like lags away?
    Shall insult be on insult heaped? Shall we let these things go?"
    And with a roar of voices comes the diggers' answer--"No!"
    The day has vanished from the scene, but not the air of night
    Can cool the blood that, ebbing back, leaves brows in anger white
    . Lo, from the roof of Bentley's Inn the flames are leaping high;
    They write "Revenge!" in letters red across the smoke-dimmed sky.
    "To arms! To arms!" the cry is out; "To arms and play your part;
    For every pike upon a pole will find a tyrant's heart!"
    Now Lalor comes to take the lead, the spirit does not lag,
    And down the rough, wild diggers kneel beneath the Diggers' Flag;
    Then, rising to their feet, they swear, while rugged hearts beat high,
    To stand beside their leader and to conquer or to die!
    Around Eureka's stockade now the shades of night close fast,
    Three hundred sleep beside their arms, and thirty sleep their last.


    About the streets of Melbourne town the sound of bells is borne
    That call the citizens to prayer that fateful Sabbath morn;
    But there upon Eureka's hill, a hundred miles away,
    The diggers' forms lie white and still above the blood-stained clay.
    The bells that toll the diggers' death might also ring a knell
    For those few gallant soldiers, dead, who did their duty well.
    The sight of murdered heroes is to hero-hearts a goad,
    A thousand men are up in arms upon the Creswick road,
    And wildest rumours in the air are flying up and down,
    'Tis said the men of Ballarat will march on Melbourne town.
    But not in vain those diggers died. Their comrades may rejoice,
    For o'er the voice of tyranny is heard the people's voice;
    It says: "Reform your rotten law, the diggers' wrongs make right,
    Or else with them, our brothers now, we'll gather to the fight."


    'Twas of such stuff the men were made who saw our nation born,
    And such as Lalor were the men who led the vanguard on;
    And like such men may we be found, with leaders such as they,
    In the roll-up of Australians on our darkest, grandest day!


    Henry Lawson

    Scrawler
    July 23, 2006 - 09:38 am
    The brooding ghosts of Australian night have gone from the bush
    and town;
    My spirit revives in the morning breeze,
    though it died when the sun went down;
    The river is high and the stream is strong,
    and teh grass is green and tall,
    And I fain would think that this world of ours is a good world
    after all.

    The light of passion in dreamy eyes, and a page of truth will
    read,
    The glorious thrill in a heart grown cold of the spirit I thought
    was dead,
    A song that goes to a comrade's hert, and a tear of pride let
    fall-
    And my soul is strong! and the world to me is a grand world
    after all!

    Let our enemies go by their old dull tracks,
    and theirs be the fault or shame
    (The man is bitter against the world who has only himself to
    blame);
    Let the darkest side of the past be dark, and only the good
    recall;
    For I must believe that the world, my dear, is a kind world
    after all.

    It well may be that I saw too plain, and it may be I was blind;
    But I'll keep my face to the dawning light,
    though the devil may sand behind!
    Though the devil may stand behind my back, I'll not see his
    shadow fall,
    But read the signs in the morning stars of a good world after all.

    Rest, for your eyes are weary, girl - you have driven the worst
    away -
    The ghost of the man that I might have been is gone from my heart
    to-day;
    We'll live for life and the best it brings till our twilight
    shadows fall;
    My heart grows brave and the world, my girl, is a good world
    after all.

    ~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    I'd like to think that the world is good and that we all should "live for life and the best it brings till our twilight shadows fall!"

    BaBi
    July 23, 2006 - 11:48 am
    "It well may be that I saw too plain, and it may be I was blind; But I'll keep my face to the dawning light, though the devil may sand behind! Though the devil may stand behind my back, I'll not see his shadow fall, But read the signs in the morning stars of a good world after all."

    What wonderful words to be able to say toward the end of our years. Despite all we have learned of life, to be able to see the goodness even yet. Thanks for finding this one for us, SCRAWLER.

    Babi

    Alliemae
    July 23, 2006 - 02:50 pm
    "We'll live for life and the best it brings till our twilight shadows fall;
    My heart grows brave and the world, my girl, is a good world after all."

    I have to follow BaBi and thank you Scrawler for finding us this poem today. As she pointed out in Lawson's words...""It well may be that I saw too plain, and it may be I was blind;"...

    Scrawler, you have been an answer to this fellow traveler's prayer of this morning and I thank you too, from the bottom of my heart, for giving me a revived perspective by posting this poem.

    By the way...I also must say, "At last, a Henry Lawson poem I MUST memorize and keep in my heart with the rest of my 'earthly armor'..."

    Alliemae

    annafair
    July 24, 2006 - 07:00 am
    I dont know if someone else posted this or even perhaps myself but every time I read it I think when I was young and sat in movie theater where the admission for a child was a just a dime. I see my girl friends and boys whom we disdained watching that movie screen,.Somehow when I read this poem I am there and seeing those old time cowboys and those old time westerns with Tom Mix and Wild Bill Hickcock and later Gene Autry and Roy Rogers ( that's when "singing cowboys " became the thing I see it in black and white like I see it on the page but his poem just makes me smile as I remember when I was young..anna

    The Roaring Days


    The night too quickly passes
    And we are growing old,
    So let us fill our glasses
    And toast the Days of Gold;
    When finds of wondrous treasure
    Set all the South ablaze,
    And you and I were faithful mates
    All through the roaring days!


    Then stately ships came sailing
    From every harbour's mouth,
    And sought the land of promise
    That beaconed in the South;
    Then southward streamed their streamers
    And swelled their canvas full
    To speed the wildest dreamers
    E'er borne in vessel's hull.


    Their shining Eldorado,
    Beneath the southern skies, <br. Was day and night for ever
    Before their eager eyes.
    The brooding bush, awakened,
    Was stirred in wild unrest,
    And all the year a human stream
    Went pouring to the West.


    The rough bush roads re-echoed
    The bar-room's noisy din,
    When troops of stalwart horsemen
    Dismounted at the inn.
    And oft the hearty greetings
    And hearty clasp of hands
    Would tell of sudden meetings
    Of friends from other lands;
    When, puzzled long, the new-chum
    Would recognise at last,
    Behind a bronzed and bearded skin,
    A comrade of the past.


    And when the cheery camp-fire
    Explored the bush with gleams,
    The camping-grounds were crowded
    With caravans of teams;
    Then home the jests were driven,
    And good old songs were sung,
    And choruses were given
    The strength of heart and lung.
    Oh, they were lion-hearted
    Who gave our country birth!
    Oh, they were of the stoutest sons
    From all the lands on earth!


    Oft when the camps were dreaming
    , And fires began to pale,
    Through rugged ranges gleaming
    Would come the Royal Mail.
    Behind six foaming horses,
    And lit by flashing lamps,
    Old `Cobb and Co.'s', in royal state,
    Went dashing past the camps.


    Oh, who would paint a goldfield,
    And limn the picture right,
    As we have often seen it
    In early morning's light;
    The yellow mounds of mullock
    With spots of red and white,
    The scattered quartz that glistened
    Like diamonds in light;
    The azure line of ridges,
    The bush of darkest green,
    The little homes of calico
    That dotted all the scene.


    I hear the fall of timber
    From distant flats and fells,
    The pealing of the anvils
    As clear as little bells,
    The rattle of the cradle,
    The clack of windlass-boles,
    The flutter of the crimson flags
    Above the golden holes.


    Ah, then our hearts were bolder,
    And if Dame Fortune frowned
    Our swags we'd lightly shoulder
    And tramp to other ground.
    But golden days are vanished,
    And altered is the scene;
    The diggings are deserted,
    The camping-grounds are green;
    The flaunting flag of progress
    Is in the West unfurled,
    The mighty bush with iron rails
    Is tethered to the world.


    Henry Lawson

    Alliemae
    July 24, 2006 - 08:54 am
    Oh anna...how right you are! Unforgetable days, and if you could sit through a double showing (in those days, for that dime, provided your parents would allow you you could sit through the movie twice!) the magic never waned!

    This poem brought back my first dillema--who was 'the best'?...Gene Autry or Roy Rogers...and also my favorite movie, Jubilee Trail (also a novel by Gwen Bristow) about a wagon train going from St. Louis all the way to California, especially this part:

    When, puzzled long, the new-chum
    Would recognise at last,
    Behind a bronzed and bearded skin,
    A comrade of the past.



    When the train finally got to its last stop in Santa Fe, right before California there would be scrubbing and laundry and boot cleaning and especially beard shaving, leaving each man's face two-toned...the top being a ruddy, sun-drenched glory and the lower half white as a new-born babe!

    I really liked this poem...so evocative of a happy and unforgetable past! Thank you anna!!

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    July 25, 2006 - 12:04 pm
    Tall, and stout, and solid-looking,
    Yet a wreck;
    None would think Death's finger's hooking
    Him from deck.
    Cause of half the fun that's started -
    'Hard-case' Dan -
    Isn't like a broken-hearted,
    Ruined man.

    Walking-coat from tail to throat is
    Frayed and greened-
    Like a man whose other coat is
    Being cleaned;
    Gone for ever round the edging
    Past repair -
    Waistcoat pockets frayed with dredging
    After 'sprats' no longer there.

    Wearing summer boots in June, or
    Slippers worn and old -
    Like a man whose other shoon are
    Getting soled.
    Pants? They're far from being recent-
    But, perhaps, I'd better not-
    Says they are the only decent
    Pair he's got.

    And his hat, I am afraid, is
    Troubling him -
    Past all lifting to the ladies
    By the brim.
    But, although he'd hardly strike a
    Girl, would Dan.
    Yet he wears his reckage like a
    Gentleman!

    Once - no matter how the rest dressed -
    Up or down -
    Once, they say, hew as the best-dressed
    Man in town.
    Must have been before I knew him -
    Now you'd scarcely care to meet
    And be noticed talking to him
    In the street.

    Drink the cause, and dissipation,
    That is clear -
    Maybe friend or kind relation
    Cause of beer.
    And the talking fool, who never
    Reads or thinks,
    Says, from hearsay: 'Yes, he's clever;
    But, you know, he drinks.'

    Been an actor and a writer-
    Doesn't whine -
    Reckoned now the best reciter
    In his line.
    Takes the stage at times, and fills it-
    'Princess May' or 'Waterloo'.
    Raise a sneer! - his first line kills it,
    'Brings 'em, too.

    Where he lives, or how, or wherefore
    No one knows;
    Lost his real friends, and therefore
    Lost his foes.
    Had, o doubt, his own romances -
    Met his fate;
    Tortured, doubtless, by the chances.
    And the luck that comes too late.

    Now and then his boots are polished,
    Collar clean,
    And the worst grease stains abolished
    By ammonia or benzine:
    Hints of some attempt to shove him
    From the taps,
    Or of someone left to love him -
    Sister, p'r'aps.

    After all, he is a grafter,
    Earns his cheer-
    Keeps the room in roars of laughter
    When he gets outside a beer,
    Yarns that would fall flat from others
    He can tell;
    How he spent his 'stuff, my brothers,
    You know well.

    Manners put a man in mind of
    Old club balls and eving dress,
    Ugly with a handsome kind of Ugliness.

    One of those we say of often
    While hearts swell,
    Standing sadly by the coffin:
    'He looks well.'

    We may be - so goes a rumour-
    Bad as Dan;
    But we may not have the humour
    Of the man;
    Nor the sight - well, deem it blindness,
    As the general public do-
    And the love of human kindness,
    Or the GRIT to see it through!

    ~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    This is a rather long poem, but I like it. I especially like the last stanza. We may not like the fact that Dan is a drunk, but we cannot deny the fact he does have: "the love of human kindness/[and] the GRIT to see it through." Something we all could understand.

    hats
    July 25, 2006 - 12:24 pm
    Scrawler, I like "Dan, the Wreck by Henry Lawson." There is always something good in the most flawed person.

    I also love these lines. Sometimes it's very difficult to tell who is hurting whether mentally or physically. The weakest person can appear the strongest. It's best to just to try and give love at all times.

    Tall, and stout, and solid-looking,
    Yet a wreck;
    None would think Death's finger's hooking
    Him from deck.

    annafair
    July 25, 2006 - 04:47 pm
    I think I have read everyone posted , some more than once. and to me there is just such a sadness in many I cant read them without a tear in my eye. First because he is describing a time when all of life was harsh, in a country area that was unforgiving.. in work that was hard in a land that was tough That he could find something good to see and good to say tells me that in spite of his shortcomings he was a good man Yes he was given to too much drink and has a lot of flaws ( and so do we all ) but he gave a true picture of the land and the people of his time. And from the pictures I have seen he certainly is honest in his description of the land. Sometimes when I read his poems and see in my mind the bleak places and times he tells about I wonder how anyone survived those times not only in Australia but in any country where men were drawn to in order to make a living and he is remembering this time with an appreciation for irony and I can see him telling this with a twinkle in his eye HE can do that since he did survive that time .....in any case this is the poem I finally settled on to share today..( PS my two 12 year old granddaughters are here for a week so I dont have a lot of time but since they are addicted to TV ( family shows ) when things quiet down they do too, That is my cue to hurry and read my email and come here) here is the poem ..always anna

    The Paroo(I finally had to find out what Paroo meant)


    It was a week from Christmas-time,
    As near as I remember,
    And half a year since, in the rear,
    We'd left the Darling timber.
    The track was hot and more than drear;
    The day dragged out for ever;
    But now we knew that we were near
    Our camp - the Paroo River.
    With blighted eyes and blistered feet,
    With stomachs out of order,
    Half-mad with flies and dust and heat
    We'd crossed the Queensland border.
    I longed to hear a stream go by
    And see the circles quiver;
    I longed to lay me down and die
    That night on Paroo River.


    The "nose-bags" heavy on each chest
    (God bless one kindly squatter!),
    With grateful weight our hearts they pressed -
    We only wanted water.
    The sun was setting in a spray
    Of colour like a liver -
    We'd fondly hoped to camp and stay
    That night by Paroo River.
    A cloud was on my mate's broad brow,
    And once I heard him mutter:
    'What price the good old Darling now? -
    God bless that grand old gutter!"
    And then he stopped and slowly said
    In tones that made me shiver:
    "It cannot well be on ahead -
    I think we've crossed the river."
    But soon we saw a strip of ground
    Beside the track we followed,
    No damper than the surface round,
    But just a little hollowed.
    His brow assumed a thoughtful frown -
    This speech did he deliver:
    "I wonder if we'd best go down
    Or up the blessed river?"


    "But where," said I, " 's the blooming stream?'
    And he replied, 'we're at it!"
    I stood awhile, as in a dream,
    "Great Scott!" I cried, "is that it?
    Why, that is some old bridle-track!"
    He chuckled, "Well, I never!
    It's plain you've never been Out Back -
    This is the Paroo River!"


    Henry Lawson

    hats
    July 25, 2006 - 11:53 pm
    Hi Anna, your words make me want to read over each poem slowly again. You explain the character of Henry Lawson and the country, Australia, with understanding and empathy. His words are filled with substance. I love the way he describes the country also. I think of the Australians as strong survivors. What a wonderful character trait. Being a strong survivor can help a person through the storms of life like sickness and other traumatic experiences. From the poem The Paroo by Henry Lewis, I like these lines.

    With blighted eyes and blistered feet,
    With stomachs out of order,
    Half-mad with flies and dust and heat
    We'd crossed the Queensland border.
    I longed to hear a stream go by
    And see the circles quiver;

    MarjV
    July 26, 2006 - 09:09 am
    The Paroo River is considered a major tributary of the Darling River, yet in most years the flow dissipates before it reaches the Darling.

    The river has its origin in the gorge country of western Queensland, meanders south and spreads into the vast floodplains of New South Wales, eventually reaching the Paroo overflow lakes.

    Its overall length is about 600km

    hats
    July 26, 2006 - 09:11 am
    MarjV, thank you.

    MarjV
    July 26, 2006 - 09:13 am
    Here's an article on the Paroo river and a map

    .http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/river/default.htm

    hats
    July 26, 2006 - 09:21 am
    Good.

    Scrawler
    July 26, 2006 - 09:58 am
    Out West, where the stars are brightest,
    Where the scorching north wind blows,
    And the bones of the dead gleam whitest,
    And the sun on a desert glows -
    Yet within the shelfish kingdom
    Where man starves man for grain,
    Where white men tramp for existence-
    Wide lies the Great Grey Plain.

    No break in its awful horizon,
    No blur in the dazzling haze,
    Save where by the bordering timber
    The fierce, white heat-waves blaze,
    And out where the tank-heap rises
    Or looms when the sunlights wane,
    'Till it seems like a distant mountain
    Low down on the Great Grey Plain.

    No sign of a stream or fountain,
    No spring on its dry, hot breast,
    No shade from the blazing noontide
    Where a weary man might rest.
    Whole years go by when the glowing
    Sky never clouds for rain -
    Only the shrubs of the desert
    Grow on the Great Grey Plain.

    From the camp, while the rich man's dreaming.
    Come the 'traveller' and his mate,
    In the ghastly dawnlight seeming
    Like a swagman's ghost out late;
    And the horseman blurs in the distance,
    While still the stars remain,
    A low, faint dust-cloud hunting
    His track on the Great Grey Plain.

    And all day long from before them
    The mirage smokes away-
    That daylight ghostof an ocean
    Creeps close behind all day
    With an evil, snake - like motion,
    As the waves of a madman's brain:
    'Tis a phantom NOT like water
    Out there on teh Great Grey Plain.

    There's a run on the Western limit
    Where a man lives like a beast,
    And a shanty in the mulga
    That stretches to the East;
    And the hopeless men who carry
    Their swags and tramp in pain -
    The footmen must not tarry
    Out there on the Great Gray Plain.

    Out West, where the stars are brightest,
    Where the scorching north wind blows,
    And the bones of the dead seem whitest,
    And the sun on a desert glows -
    Out back in the hungry distance
    That brave hears dare in vain -
    Where beggars tramp for existence -
    There lies the Great Grey Plain.

    'Tis a desert not more barren
    Than the Great Grey Plain of years,
    Where a fierce fire burns the hearts of men -
    Dries up the fount of tears:
    Where the victims of a greed insane
    Are crushed in a hell-born strife -
    Where the souls of a race are murdered
    On the Great Grey Plain of Life!

    ~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    I picked this poem because the last few days I too thought I was living on physical Great Grey Plain when our tempertures here in Oregon hit over 100 degrees with no air conditioning.

    But I think think this poem refers more to the mental Great Grey Plain rather than to a physical place. When I read the last stanza: "Where the souls of a race are murdered/On the great Grey Plain of Life" it makes me think of the various wars where mankind has killed each other.

    CathieS
    July 26, 2006 - 01:52 pm
    Is Edna St Vincent Millay starting soon?

    annafair
    July 26, 2006 - 09:05 pm
    Edna St Vincent Millay will begin August 1 She wrote the first poem I memorized when I was an adult. so when I post late on the last day in July that will be the poem I will use. hope to see you here. Tell everyone.......she is a favorite of many I know.. anna

    BaBi
    July 27, 2006 - 03:51 pm
    I like Millay, too. And shorter poems.

    Babi

    CathieS
    July 27, 2006 - 03:56 pm
    I've never done the poetry before. Just how does it work? Do you do a new poem each day?

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    July 27, 2006 - 07:26 pm
    Welcome Cathie - we are currently focusing on a poet a month - we post a poem by that poet that tickles our fancy - often it says things that strike a chord or we are learning something we did not know or we see lines that we admire or the form of the poem is worthy of commenting on - some of us respond and some of us read but have nothing to say or we may have another poem by the same poet that we post - it is a loosely organized group that is excited about poetry and Anna does a superb job of bringing poets to our attention that we had not heard of or if we had we did not read their work in depth.

    If you scroll back or hit outline and pickup the conversation for a month or two you will see how the conversation has been going in this discussion - hope you join us - this is a lovely group and your contributions will add to our enjoyment.

    OH yes, to make it even more loosey goosey we can post a poem by another author if the mood strikes or some of our own work since several in this discussion write their own poetry... look forward to your posts...

    CathieS
    July 28, 2006 - 05:40 am
    Thanks very much, Barbara. I appreciate the explanation. right now, I'm afraid I don't have the time to scroll back through the discussions- your explanation can suffice for now. This will be a first for me- discussing poetry. I'm looking forward to the novelty of that.

    Blessings,

    Cathie&Colby

    Alliemae
    July 28, 2006 - 07:24 am
    BaBi, I was thinking the same thing about shorter poems, even though I did like the 'story-teller' aspect of Henry Lawson, especially about a (for me) new land...I'm ready for shorter too.

    Cathie&Colby I just really started with poetry discussion group three poets ago and I love the way this one is set up...lots of leeway and good fellowship too! Welcome!

    I don't really know much about Edna St. Vincent Millay so have been 'having a bit of a peek'...I hope a lot of you are familiar with her because sometimes I didn't understand her--but what I did understand I enjoyed! I'm really looking forward to this new experience with yet another new (for me) poet!

    Alliemae

    P.S. I do have a feeling I will on occasion miss this month's insightful, benignly bitter at times, dusty and disheveled wiseman however. He sure can call 'em like he sees 'em!

    Scrawler
    July 28, 2006 - 11:10 am
    I'm lyin' on the barren ground that's baked and cracked with
    drought,
    And dunno if my legs or back or heart is most wore out;
    I've got no spirits left to rise and smooth me achin' brow -
    I'm too knocked up to light a fire and bile the billy now.

    Oh it's trampin', trampin', tra-a-mpin', in flies an' dust an'
    heat,
    Or it's trampin' trampin' tra-a-a-mpin' through mud and slush 'n
    sleet:
    They whine o' lost an wasted lives in idleness and crime -
    I've wasted mine for twenty years, and grafted all the time
    And never drunk the stuff I earned, nor gambled when I shore-
    But somehow when yer on the track yer life seems wasted more.

    A long dry stretch of thirty miles I've tramped this broilin' day.
    All for the off-chance of a job a hundred miles away;
    There's twenty hungry beggars wild for any job this year.
    An' fifty might be at he shed while I am lyin' here

    The sinews in my legs seem drawn, red-hot - 'n that's the truth;
    I seem to weigh a ton, and ache like one tremendous tooth:
    I'm stung between my should-blades-my blessed back seems broke;
    I'm too knocked out to eat a bite - I'm too knocked up to smoke.

    The blessed rain is comin' too - there's oceans in the sky.
    An' I suppose I msut get up and rig the blessed fly;
    The heat is bad, teh water's bad, teh flies a crimson curse,
    The grub is bad, mosquitoes damned - but rhematism's worse.

    I wonder why poor blokes like me will stick so fast ter breath,
    Though Shakespeare says it is the fear of somethin' after death;
    But though Eternity be cursed with God's almighty curse -
    What ever that same somethin' is I swear it can't be worse.

    For it's trampin', trampin', tra-a-mpin'thro' hell across the
    plain,
    A livin' worse than any dog - without a home'n wife,
    A-wearin' out yer hear 'n soul in the wastin' of yer life.

    "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    This reminds me of some of the stories my grandparents and parents told me about living and growing up during the Dpression. But one big difference is that no matter how hard things got they still managed to live a good life full of happiness over the simplest of pleasures.

    annafair
    July 28, 2006 - 11:56 am
    I am looking forward to Millay's poems since I think she was one of the first MODERN poets I read. having been brought up on Longfellow and Browning and Stevenson among others

    This is a rather bittersweet day for me .. It is the day of my wedding anniversary . My husband succumbed to melanoma March 1994 just a few months short of our 45th anniversary ..It is easier for me in some ways than a few years ago but when you stop and give thanks for the years you had you realize you were indeed blessed I feel all who come here are my friends so I will share a poem written yesterday because I knew today was going to arrive. to my beloved always his anna

    Searching for you


    Among the mementos and assorted bric a brac
    I search for you , in the boxes full of things unused
    I poke and pry and look for you
    Under the litter of books and papers
    My hope is to find some part of you
    A photograph from other years
    Shouts at me, declares you once were here.
    This emptiness was not the future
    I expected , not this arid land,
    Where the absence of you pains,
    And my days full of sudden tears
    In the bleak , black of night,
    My face turns into the pillow
    Where once you laid your head.
    You have long been gone
    Still, there are times when I feel you near.
    When a sudden movement at the edge
    Of my vision sees your shadow glide by
    If I had a choice my feet would hurry
    To find you, to be by your side
    Instead I am tethered , caught in the
    Net of the universe , impaled by thoughts
    Of the you that was and hindered
    By the being I am …..


    anna alexander July 27, 2006, 5:02 AM ©

    MarjV
    July 28, 2006 - 12:50 pm
    Cathy---- nice to have you join us. We also comment on poems posted - sometimes even a dialogue gets going.

    ---------------------

    Anna, what a poignant and very beautiful memorial to life with your husband.

    ~Marj

    MarjV
    July 28, 2006 - 12:56 pm
    You sure can visualize that character's tongue hanging out in the drought and the heat!!!!!

    BaBi
    July 28, 2006 - 01:00 pm
    ANNAFAIR, it is such a comfort to realize that there are couples who continued to love one another after 45 years of marriage; who were so closely knit that ones absence is still felt so many years later. So few seem to find that kind of love, that bond, anymore. You were indeed fortunate and blessed.

    Babi

    hats
    July 28, 2006 - 01:44 pm
    AnnaFair, this is a day, I am sure, you will always remember. Your poem is filled with unforgettable love. Thank you for feeling you could come here and share.

    Alliemae
    July 28, 2006 - 02:50 pm
    I believe the memories can be bittersweet...the bitter being the deep and encompassing longing...but this makes your beloved immortal, this remembering of him as you do...and I don't believe anyone leaves who remains in our hearts.

    It seems to me that we can only let the feelings surround us...give ourselves up and into them...and only in that way are we together with our dear ones who have gone on ahead of us.

    And I know it's not the same...

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    July 28, 2006 - 02:55 pm
    Scrawler I have read 'Knocked Up' a few times fairly recently and enjoyed it so much that I was sure it must have been posted toward the beginning and was too lazy to go ALL the way back to check! I am SO GLAD that you posted it...it was one of my favorites!!

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    July 28, 2006 - 03:12 pm
    Alliemae - you can always check by doing a search of the poem title.

    Alliemae
    July 29, 2006 - 08:50 am
    ...never thought of that!! (But I have had a chance to use your 'link shortener'...thanks again for that!!)

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    July 29, 2006 - 09:45 am
    Great Alliemae !

    Scrawler
    July 29, 2006 - 11:02 am
    Day of ending for beginnings!
    Ocean hath another innings
    Ocean hath another score;
    And teh surges sing his winnings,
    And the surges shout his winnings,
    And the surges shriek his winnings,
    All along the sullen shore.

    Sing another dirge in wailing,
    For another vessel sailing
    With the shadow - ships at sea;
    Shadow- ships for ever sinking -
    Shadow - ships whose pumps are clinking,
    And those thirsty holds are drinking
    Pledges to Eternity.

    Pray for souls of ghastly, sodden
    Corpses, floating round untrodden
    Cliffs, where nought but sea-drift strays:
    Souls of dead men, in whose faces
    Of humanity no trace is -
    Not a mark to show their races
    Floating round for days and days

    Ocean's salty tongues are licking
    Round the faces of the drowned,
    And a cruel blade seems sticking
    Through my heart and turning round.

    Heaven! shall HIS ghastly, sodden
    Corpse float round for days and days?
    Shat it dash 'neath cliffs untrodden,
    Rocks where noguth but sea-drift strays?

    God in heaven! hide the floating,
    Falling, rising, face from me;
    God in heaven! stay the gloating,
    Mocking singing of the sea!

    ~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    I usually enjoy poems about the ocean, but this one shows yet another picture of the ocean. One that I might not seem like I really want to picture in my mind's eye, but one that should be told none the less. It seemed to me that while I was reading this poem that the words themselves seemed to be crashing against the rocks in a rhythm not unlike the crashing of ocean waves against the rocks.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    July 29, 2006 - 12:04 pm
    Sounds like the fears of folks who have never been to sea and like the unwanted immigrants to Australia they were packed up and shipped with their fears and losses wrapped into a fear of what the ocean could do to them in the wooden haul of what seems like a small boat when sailing out to sea.

    MarjV
    July 29, 2006 - 12:32 pm
    I read it a little differently. My take is that it is written from the standpoint of one who understands the dreaded sea and voyage; who perhaps has experienced or listened to the tales of survivors. Not a soft & happy poem - once again Lawson tells us of the reality or possible realities to come.

    annafair
    July 29, 2006 - 03:57 pm
    First I want to thank you for your kind words regarding my anniversary poem ...Even Lawson's long poems describing the harsh life he led I have found him interesting. I now know a LOT more about Australia than I did when we started and that is a true bonus. I was talking to someone from Austalia last night on line and they tell me a lot of Australia is still the way Lawson described . I found him funny and droll, sad , wistful and lonely . I guess since my own hearing can be called a profound hearing loss I feel for Lawson ..There were no organzations to help someone deal with this and I think no hope ever for those who were so afflicted He has been so descriptive I have found myself through his words SEEING and FEELING what he wrote about.

    The poem I chose for today reminds me how often the things I remember no longer exist. The house I was born in and grew up in is GONE replaced by an interstate. A couple of years ago I drove back to the midwest and found myself in a strange land. Towns have disappeared,. Where a town still stands it no longer looks like the quaint and busy town I once knew or it has expanded until nothing remained of the town that peoples my mind So this poem rather reminded me of those lost towns ..they are only contained in my memory and in the memories of the few remaining friends from those days. When we are gone I suspect those towns will truly disappear. Here is my offering for today .. anna

    Cherry- Tree Inn


    The rafters are open to sun, moon, and star,
    Thistles and nettles grow high in the bar --
    The chimneys are crumbling, the log fires are dead,
    And green mosses spring from the hearthstone instead.
    The voices are silent, the bustle and din,
    For the railroad hath ruined the Cherry-tree Inn.


    Save the glimmer of stars, or the moon's pallid streams,
    And the sounds of the 'possums that camp on the beams,
    The bar-room is dark and the stable is still,
    For the coach comes no more over Cherry-tree Hill.
    No riders push on through the darkness to win
    The rest and the comfort of Cherry-tree Inn.


    I drift from my theme, for my memory strays
    To the carrying, digging, and bushranging days --
    Far back to the seasons that I love the best,
    When a stream of wild diggers rushed into the west,
    But the `rushes' grew feeble, and sluggish, and thin,
    Till scarcely a swagman passed Cherry-tree Inn.


    Do you think, my old mate (if it's thinking you be),
    Of the days when you tramped to the goldfields with me?
    Do you think of the day of our thirty-mile tramp,
    When never a fire could we light on the camp,
    And, weary and footsore and drenched to the skin,
    We tramped through the darkness to Cherry-tree Inn?


    Then I had a sweetheart and you had a wife,
    And Johnny was more to his mother than life;
    But we solemnly swore, ere that evening was done,
    That we'd never return till our fortunes were won.
    Next morning to harvests of folly and sin
    We tramped o'er the ranges from Cherry-tree Inn.


    The years have gone over with many a change,
    And there comes an old swagman from over the range,
    And faint 'neath the weight of his rain-sodden load,
    He suddenly thinks of the inn by the road.
    He tramps through the darkness the shelter to win,
    And reaches the ruins of Cherry-tree Inn.


    Henry Lawson

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 04:30 pm
    Alliemae's post #190 poem "Australian Bards and Bush Reviewers" and MarjV's #193 (Les Murray's "The Aborignal Cricketer") helped me recall that Australia's aboriginine culture is often said to "pre-date time itself."

    My first knowledge of Australia's aborigines was in album-notes in a 1988 "new-age" 2-CD album by Steve Roach, "DREAMTIME RETURN." Dreamtime is today often roughly defined as "the time before time." Gives an idea, maybe? If interested, here's a click-on link to more about "Dreamtime": http://www.crystalinks.com/dreamtime.html

    Like Marj, I found contemporary poet Les Murray's website well worth a visit. In this forum we've recently applauded Jane Oliver's two "Handbooks on poetry." I also like Murray's one-paragraph sum-up of what poetry is to him: http://www.lesmurray.org/writingpoetry.htm

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 04:47 pm
    Thanks to Hats' post #199, I'm also learning LOTS MORE about Australia. In fact, I've just tonight recommended this link over in Australia forum: http://geocities.com/bluegumtrees/MyAustralia.html It's a delightful link that others here might find fun browsing too.

    MarjV
    July 29, 2006 - 04:48 pm
    Jim- thanks for the dream-time link. Love reading about that of spirituality.

    Yes, Murrays website is excellent.

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 04:57 pm
    Anneo, re your post #207: Thanks. Must confess, I'd never heard of Australia's White Australia Policy. I'm still reading about it, mostly at: http://www.answers.com/topic/white_australia_policy

    It's an in-depth discussion of this long-ago controversial policy.

    Also, I've tried but not yet found that Lawson poem you referred to that speaks negatively toward "Yanks." I'll keep looking though.

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 05:18 pm
    Barbara, I'll gladly jump up to second your "Lawson's glass often seems half-empty." Well put!

    Still, some works of art can best originate from the "have-nots." For example, USA's original Blues music. It stemmed from pains that just aren't there in most later "city-fied" blues music...to me anyway. N'est-ce pas?

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 05:26 pm
    Alliemae, I'd sometime enjoy discussing "old westerns" with you. Re Roy vs Gene...to me, it's simple. Rogers was my clean-cut choice while growing up. But Autry has had more "staying power" for me. I also liked ALL their less-regarded B-Western contemporaries.

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 05:34 pm
    And let's also not forget to remember Ogden Nash's classic ditty:

    The Platypus

    I like the duck-billed platypus
    Because it is anomalous.

    I like the way it raises its family
    Partly birdly, partly mammaly.

    I like its independent attitude.
    Let no one call it a duck-billed platitude.

    -- Ogden Nash

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 05:41 pm
    I thought I'd add/offer a definition:

    KNOCKED UP

    1. Slang: To make pregnant.
    2. To wake up or summons (chiefly British).
    3. To wear out; exhaust (chiefly British).

    By all the Gentle Mercies, Lawson's is surely definition #3.

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 05:47 pm
    Annafair, that's so beautiful! I'd like to use it as my annual thought to my widowed friend on her 4th anniversary of widow-dom in October. With your credits, natch. It's better'n anything out there elsewhere on I-net!

    Jim in Jeff
    July 29, 2006 - 05:52 pm
    Thanks for your thanks, MarjV. I too love exploring past spiritual music/poetry/cultures. Is SO MUCH we've lost...to be re-learned.

    annafair
    July 29, 2006 - 06:29 pm
    Is the indepth discussion , Not only of the poets and poems but the places we are visiting via poetry and the feelings of the poets themselves The links we are offering give us so much information and since I am the kind of person who can never learn enough about anything. My curiosity knows no bounds AND the sharing of our expierences makes this feel like a "family" sharing our lives ..

    Jim my oldest daughter has a website that features my poetry too and when I emailed that poem she asked if she could share it there . My reply I write first for me. All of my poetry ( and I believe this is true of poets ) is written from my own expierences , my own feelings about what ever I am writing about LOL this is long explanation to tell you Please so share my poem with your friend. That is what I told my daughter I am glad I can express my feelings through my poetry It has been a life saver for me .> First because my loss was so deep and my grief the same it was only through using poetry I was able to move on >>It just demanded that I put all that grief and sorrow into some form that allowed me to heal If it can help others I want that as well. Remind me next year I have a lot of poems about my feelings which I think are universal to a loss. And thanks for the confidence and kind remarks SO glad to read all of your posts ( and I mean everyones) and the links ..I click on all links..I am doubly enriched ,maybe triple by first the poetry we share, by the gift of our memories, by the information we find and share and oh my I dont think there is an end to what we learn and share here .. I am indebted to everyone You have enriched me with your posts.. hugs to each, always ,anna

    hats
    July 30, 2006 - 04:47 am
    HiJim in Jeff you have struck at my heart. I have always wanted to know more about the Australian Aborigines. I feel they are lost in a country's history. Yet, I feel to become acquainted with the Australian Aborigines would only add to the wealth of the Australian culture. Thank you for the link. It is always well worth it to see your posts at Poetry Corner.

    BaBi
    July 30, 2006 - 07:58 am
    JIMinJEFF, ..and I thank you for those definitions. #3 is the only one I didn't know, and I greatly prefer it.

    Babi

    Alliemae
    July 30, 2006 - 09:22 am
    Jim, that sure would be fun...I'd like that. Also, thanks for reminding me of Ogden Nash. My dad used to write limericks and so when I was growing up, our home was an Ogden Nash home!!

    Alliemae

    p.s. and of course, Fuzzy Knight and the old fella with the big grayish white beard...can't remember his name right now!! Shame on me!!

    Scrawler
    July 30, 2006 - 10:23 am
    The world is narrow and ways are short, and our lives are dull and
    slow,
    For little is new where the crowds resort, and less where the
    wanders go;
    Greater, or smaller, the same old things we see by the dull road-
    side -
    And tired of all is the spirit that sings
    of the days when the world was wide.

    When the North was hale in the march of Time
    and the South and the West were new,
    And the gorgeous East was a pantomine, as it seemed in our
    boyhood's view;
    When Spain was first on the waves of change,
    and pround in the ranks of pride,
    And all was wonderful, new and strange in the days when the world
    was wide.

    Then a man could fight if his heart was bold,
    and win if his faith were true -
    Were it love, or honour, or power, or gold, or all that our hearts
    pursue;
    Could live to the world for the family name, or die for the family
    pride,
    Could fly from sorrow, and wrong, and shame
    in the days when the world was wide.

    They sailed away in the ships that sailed ere science controlled
    the main
    When the srong, brave heart of a man prevailed
    as 'twill never prevail again;
    They knew not whither, nor much they cared -
    let Fate or the winds decide -
    The worst of the Great Unknown they dared
    in the days when the world was wide.

    They raised new stars on the silent sea that filled their hearts
    with awe;
    they came to many a strange countree and marvellous sights they
    saw.
    The villagers gaped at the tales they told,
    and old eyes glistened with pride -
    When barbarous cities were paved with gold
    in the days when the world was wide.

    Twas honest metal and honest wood, in the days of the Outward
    Bound,
    When men were gallant and ships were good - roaming the wide world
    round.
    The gods could envy a leader then when 'Follow me, lads! he cried-
    They faced each other and fought like men
    in the day when the world was wide.

    They tried to live as a freeman should - they were happier men
    than we,
    In the glorious days of wine and blood, when Liberty crossed the
    sea;
    Twas a comrade true or a foeman then, and a trusty sword well
    tried-
    in the days when the world was wide.

    [to be continued] ~ "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    Jim in Jeff
    July 30, 2006 - 02:31 pm
    Scrawler...good sharings! I wish I knew EXACTLY what Lawson meant by his "in the days when the world was wide." Is it simply that, in his time, the world seems to have narrowed too much? Or something else entirely? Anyway...many thoughtful thoughts in those verses.

    My fave Lawson thought posted here so far is one verse from Lawson's poem "After All" (another good Scrawler post, #228). This verse was immediately seconded by BaBi; and I'd like to belatedly "third" it here:

    It well may be that I saw too plain,
    and it may be I was blind;
    But I'll keep my face to the dawning light,
    though the devil may stand behind!

    Though the devil may stand behind my back,
    I'll not see his shadow fall,
    But read the signs in the morning stars
    of a good world after all.

    I'll also second BaBi's post #229 comments. What a life's testimony!

    Alliemae, that "bewhiskered sidekick" you were trying to recall was likely Gabby Hayes. Here's a link to a good website dedicated to B-Westerns. http://www.b-westerns.com In left column there is a click-on to "sidekick pals"; and many good B-western links.

    Annafair, thanks for permission to share yours with my widowed friend. Your copyright symbol at end of your shared poems here...makes us specifically seek permissions to do so. That's as it should be. As I understand it, Symbol indicates intention to copyright within two years...tho author might opt to never do so.

    In this case in particular, your thoughts will share well with another widow-friend of mine. Thanks, Anna.

    Alliemae
    July 31, 2006 - 05:46 am
    Yes it is, Jim...I had just come to post his name after remembering it and your post was already here!!

    Thanks for the link. One of my favorite cable channels is the Turner Classic Movie channel. They used to have westerns every Saturday morning but since the fall of 1999, they have been heavy on war movies. They still get some westerns in though.

    Thanks again, Alliemae

    Alliemae
    July 31, 2006 - 06:04 am
    It's the 31st of the month and it's been an interesting and informative one as well as heart-touching and soul-searching.

    I don't think I've ever spent a whole month with quite this much raw reality.

    I was able to find some Edna St. Vincent Millay at the local library and am looking forward, as I do each time we change poets (except, I think, Mary Oliver), to the coming month.

    anna I want to thank you so much for creating this lovely space and to all of you it's such a pleasure to be among you.

    This space is still my refuge!

    Alliemae

    hats
    July 31, 2006 - 06:28 am
    Alliemae, it is a wonderful "refuge."

    annafair
    July 31, 2006 - 06:58 am
    Forgive me but Jim's question inspired me to write a poem just now Here it is as it came to me ..no editing, no thoughtful pause, just what my spirit spoke .. anna PS I still have all the letters my husband wrote, the last letters from my brothers and my mother before they died..these are not just pieces of yellowed paper but my memories of the past I dont save my emails ..they are wonderful for quick communication but for me I take my finger and trace each written word that someone loved took the time to say ,.and I hold them to my heart and know that once they were part of my life and I am glad I lived when all the world was wide...anna

    In the days when the world was wide


    Oh there are times when my soul cries
    For the days when the world was wide
    when travel meant not a rapid ride
    but slow meandering by car across the countryside
    all those little towns with a population small
    but still with little shops and places to rest
    surprise areas with green grass and park benches
    I am glad I knew them each… from the Midwest
    to Yellowstone From Wisconsin to Texas
    all roads led to a happiness my spirit sighs for
    those slow times when it took a week
    to sail from New York to Europe ..to be lulled
    to sleep by the ocean ‘s deep snore …
    to awaken each dawn and go on deck
    and see the whitecaps at play
    and breathe that salted air ………
    now an airplane takes you there ,
    you never feel the joy of seeing the world
    because it is not near… but far below
    you only have time for a nap or two
    to watch a show instead of the sea beneath …
    I am tethered to the earth I don’t want to
    get someplace fast I want to savor each moment
    and make it last…. to become a memory ,
    one my mind can review when I am alone …
    I am glad I was able to see not just the tourist
    places but the real world of rural roads
    of foggy dawns and sunlit fields
    crystal lakes , serene and still
    all those placid places that gave my heart a thrill
    the world was wide when I was young
    it took time to go somewhere and while
    I am grateful for some of our newer ways
    to communicate, still … I miss the letters mailed
    from foreign lands with stamps unique that arrived
    at my door. There are those who prefer to fly
    to get every where as fast as possible .
    who exceed the speed limit on the highway
    not me I want TO SEE the world
    to drown myself in smells of pine trees
    after a storm, to touch the leaves , in fall
    to toss their autumn jewels into the air
    I don’t want to leave this earth and
    NEVER know its beauty and its joy
    Oh my heart cries for the time
    when all the world was wide…..


    anna alexander July 31, 2006, 9:39 AM ©

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    July 31, 2006 - 09:41 am
    Oh Anna yes - you captured it so well - in fact you have me itching for a road trip but then I am thinking cooler weather to enjoy your kind of trip rather than the heat of August.

    And so tomorrow we will slip from the nineteenth century to the twentieth with a change in speech patterns and a change of issues -

    Jim thanks for those links - I got so lost in the one web site that I spent at least 6 hours one night discovering more and more about Australia's past.

    Better keep going here before my eyes completely close up for the day - with no rain here for a month and our typical high summer heat, allergies are rampant.

    Scrawler
    July 31, 2006 - 12:41 pm
    The good ship is bound for the Southern seas when the beacon
    was Ballarat,
    With a 'Ship ahoy! on the freshening breeze,
    'Where bound?' and 'What ship's that?' -
    The emigrant train to New Mexico - the rush to the Lachlan Side-
    Ah! faint is the echo of Westward Ho!
    from the days when the world was wide.

    South, East, and West in advance of Time - and, ay! in advance
    of Thought
    Those brave men rose to a height subline - and is it for this
    they fought?
    And is it for this dammed life we praise the god - like spirit
    that died
    At Eureka Stockade in the Roaring Days
    with the days when the world was wide?

    We fight like women, and feel as much; the thoughts of our hearts
    we guard;<BR< Where scarcely the scorn of a god could touch,
    the sneer of a neak hits hard;
    The treacherous tongue and cowardly pen, the weapons of curs,
    decide-
    They faced each other and fought like men
    in the days when the world was wide.

    Think of it all - of the life that is! Study your friends and
    foes!
    Study the past! and answer this: 'Are these times bettr than
    those?'
    The life-long quarrel, the paltry spite, the sting of your
    poisoned pride!
    No matter who fell it were better to fight
    as they did when the world was wide.

    Boast as you will of your mateship now - crippled and mean and sly
    The lines of suspicion on friendship's brow
    were traced since the days gone by.
    There was room in the long, free lines of the van
    to fight for it side by side -
    There was beating - room for the heart of a man
    in the days when the world was wide.

    With its dull, brown days of a - shilling - an - hour
    the dreary your drags round:
    Is this the result of Old England's power?
    - the bourne of the Outward Bound?
    Is this the sequel of Westward Ho! - of the days of Whate'er
    Betide!
    We'll fight till the world grows wide!'

    The world shall yet be a wider world - fro the tokens are
    manifest;
    East and North shall the wrongs be hurled that followed us South
    and West.
    The march of Freedom is North by the Dawn! Follow, whate'er betide!
    Sons of the Exiles, march! March on! March till the world grows
    wide!
    "In the Days When the World Was Wide" ~ Henry Lawson

    I picked this poem because to me it seemed to bring all of Lawson's feelings into one poem and so I thought it fitting that this should be one of the last that we try to analyze.

    To me it seems that the speaker is thinking about the past and how it differs from the present: [Study the past! And answer this: 'Are these times better than those?']. He talks about exploration: [When Spain was first on the waves of change, and proud in the ranks of pride.]

    And he talks about: [Is this [Australia today] the result of Old England's power?/ the bourne of the Outward Bound?/Is this the [present] the sequel of Westward Ho!]

    And finally he speaks of the future: [The world shall yet be a wider world - for the tokens are manifest;]. And in the end in order to preserve our past and our present we must fight for our future [freedom] and if we do: [The march of Freedom is North by the Dawn! Follow, whate'er betide!/Sons of the Exiles, march! March on! March till the world grows wide!]

    In many ways I see this poem not only about Australians, but also about Americans. After all weren't we also the sons and daughters of the Exiles and I think the poet is saying that if are to remain free; we must fight for our freedom in the hope that someday we will return to the days when the world was wide and free!

    annafair
    July 31, 2006 - 03:02 pm
    Scrawler this may not be the last but it certainly one of his best . for he saw a world that transportation had opened up and I am seeing a world that transportation has narrowed. I wonder what he would think about being able to leave Okinawa at 11am on a Friday morning and arriving in San Francisco about 7 am on the same day BEFORE we left Okinawa ..? I know for me it was so mind boggling I wept for several hours. It upset my whole concept of time and the world.

    Next year we here in Virginia and especially where I live less than 25 min from Colonial Williamsburg will celebrate the 400th year of the arrival of the GODSPEED from England in 1607 after a 6 month voyage.. In Lawsons time I would think he thought how wonderful to be able to sail from everywhere to Austalia or somewhere and he saw the world as wide. I see it now as narrowed and I long for the days when the world was wide....the United States liner could sail from England to New York in 4 days The America in 1953 did it in a week and now by air it is just a few hours. A friend sailed from Florida a few years ago . through the Panama Canal , visited several S American countries Easter Island Australia Vietnam came through the Suez canal , visited Egypt and then Italy before flying home in 72 days..stopping along the way . In fact through the internet and the live cameras on the boat I sailed with her. watched the boat go through the Panama Canal etc..Henry and I would prefer I think the slow boat to China where we could SEE the things along the way ..

    I think Lawson might well be disappointed if knew today's world the ships of his time opened up the world and the inventions of ours has changed that to me ..In many ways we are becoming homogenized ...Well as I said it is a good poem to think about before we move into the 20th century and a different viewpoint.

    For whatever reason I woke up in February and knew I wanted to do things different here I am grateful to all who have helped make that dream a reality ..Across time and space we meet in person ..and share our thoughts, our past, our nows and our hopes for our future ..my deep and heartfelt thanks to each who have made this such a special place ,Our refuge in space. love and hugs to all anna

    annafair
    July 31, 2006 - 08:32 pm
    It was my 17th year when I discovered the poetry of Edna St Vincent Millay ..I was mesmerized by her poems..they seem to have been written just for me ..I loved the following one so much I memorized it and would recite it to myself mostly but also to some of my young friends. so here is that poem...and Autumn has always been my favoite time of they year....anna

    God's World


    O WORLD, I cannot hold thee close enough!
    Thy winds, thy wide grey skies!
    Thy mists that roll and rise!
    Thy woods, this autumn day, that ache and sag
    And all but cry with colour! That gaunt crag
    To crush! To lift the lean of that black bluff!
    World, World, I cannot get thee close enough!


    Long have I known a glory in it all,
    But never knew I this;
    Here such a passion is
    As stretcheth me apart. Lord, I do fear
    Thou'st made the world too beautiful this year.
    My soul is all but out of me,—let fall
    No burning leaf; prithee, let no bird call.


    Edna St Vincent Millay

    Ella Gibbons
    August 1, 2006 - 01:45 am
    Having read, devoured and loved THE SAVAGE BEAUTY - a book about Edna St. Vicent Millay, and burning the candle at one end tonight, I thought I might post just one of my favorites:

    "My candle burns at both ends;
    It will not last the night;
    But, ah, my foes, and, oh, my friends--
    It gives a lovely light."

    annafair
    August 1, 2006 - 05:22 am
    It is so good to see you here ...and as the leader of the discussion of The Savage Beauty you are doubly welcome...The poem you posted is also a favorite of mine ..I suspect it expressed my 17 year old self ... and this very senior lady ....

    Please stay with us for this month at least You can contribute so much ..always, anna

    Kindred
    August 1, 2006 - 08:57 am

    Kindred
    August 1, 2006 - 09:04 am
    Annafair God's world is a favorite of mine also and I was very young when I first read it. Fall is my favorite season and I felt she was speaking for me. Kindred

    MarjV
    August 1, 2006 - 09:37 am
    Thy winds, thy wide grey skies!
    Thy mists that roll and rise!
    Thy woods, this autumn day, that ache and sag
    And all but cry with colour! That gaunt crag

    These lines from God's World remind me of how I love the wildness of autumn. There is a wildness in the storms/winds that come; in the changing colors sometimes overnight. In the changing temps. And maybe it urges a wildness of heart.

    ~Marj

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 09:40 am
    I also read SAVAGE BEAUTY and enjoyed it immensely. I also ordered (at the time) a video of Edna at Steepletop, her NY estate, with her husband and her sister, etc. It was very eery to watch after reading about her life.

    I am happy to share it with anyone here and mail it to you for viewing; I just ask that you pay to return mail it to me as it's very special.

    My favorite of her is "Renascense" , which, of course is miles too long to post here but it is so remarkable that she could have written something so profound at such a young age. It boggles my mind, frankly.

    I am posting a link to it here however. I would suggest printing it out and perhaps reading it in parts. Personally, I like to read poetry aloud as that helps me understand it better for some reason.

    RENASCENCE

    The last stanza is of particular beauty for me and I post it here. I can never read this part aloud without crying because the beauty of it is so profound to me. But, if you have the time and inclination do read the entire thing to get the idea of what Renascence (new birth) is about.

    The world stands out on either side

    No wider than the heart is wide;

    Above the world is stretched the sky,— 205

    No higher than the soul is high.

    The heart can push the sea and land

    Farther away on either hand;

    The soul can split the sky in two,

    And let the face of God shine through. 210

    But East and West will pinch the heart

    That can not keep them pushed apart;

    And he whose soul is flat—the sky

    Will cave in on him by and by.


    Cathie&Colby

    Scrawler
    August 1, 2006 - 12:14 pm
    "Renascence" was Millay's first important poem to be published as a contest winner in an anthology. [It is nice to know that we all come from such humble beginnings. One of the best ways even today to get published is to enter your poems in a contest.] At the time "Renascence" was praised for its freshness and honesty.

    Since we were talking about Autumn, I thought I'd share this one:

    "The Death of Autumn": When reeds are dead and a straw to thatch the marshes,
    And feathered pampas-grass rides into the wind
    Like aged warriors westward, tragic, thinned
    Of half their tribe, and over the flattened rushes,
    Stripped of its secret, open, stark and bleak,
    Blackens afar the half-forgotten creek, -
    Then leans on me the weight of the year, and crushes
    My heart. I know that Beauty must ail and die,
    And will be born again, - but ah, to see
    Beauty stiffened, staring up at the sky!
    Oh, Autumn! Autumn! - What is the Spring to me?

    ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay

    Although I enjoy all the seasons, like Millay my favorite has to be Autumn as we cross from the heat of summer to the cold of winter. There is that special time to reflect not only what has happened in the days that have past, but also to reflect on the days ahead. Autumn to me is a bridge between past and future as it refers to the Autumn of one's days.

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 12:30 pm
    Isn't it interesting that autumn is our favorite season. It's my favorite season too. After my mother's mastecdomy, while lying in the hospital, during the autumn, my mother would often tell how the beauty of the leaves brought her hope. She could see the changing colors from her window.

    Now after reading Edna St. Vincent Millay's poems here today, I am reminded that after all this color, so bright, death is on the way. Winter is near. Does some sort of beauty come before death? I hope the question makes sense.

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 12:34 pm
    I almost see some sort of answer in the poem posted by Scrawler.

    I know that Beauty must ail and die,
    And will be born again, - but ah, to see
    Beauty stiffened, staring up at the sky!


    For those who have read "Savage Beauty" I would love to know the meaning of the title of the book. Is it part of a poem?

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 12:57 pm
    For those who have read "Savage Beauty" I would love to know the meaning of the title of the book. Is it part of a poem?

    Yes, here is the poem:

    I am waylaid by Beauty. Who will walk

    Between me and the crying of the frogs?

    Oh, savage Beauty, suffer me to pass,

    That am a timid woman, on her way

    From one house to another.

    -Edna St. Vincent Millay

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 12:58 pm
    Cathie thank you!

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 01:02 pm
    Actually, here is the entire poem:

    ASSAULT I

    I HAD forgotten how the frogs must sound

    After a year of silence, else I think

    I should not so have ventured forth alone

    At dusk upon this unfrequented road.

    II

    I am waylaid by Beauty. Who will walk

    Between me and the crying of the frogs ?

    Oh, savage Beauty, suffer me to pass,

    That am a timid woman, on her way

    From one house to another!

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 01:02 pm
    Ella, I would love to burn my candle at both ends. There is so much life to live. Our time is short. That means I must try and treasure every moment.

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 01:03 pm
    Cathie, so, this is more of the poem? Thank you. I have gotten some of her books from the library. I will look for this one. Is the title Savage Beauty?

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 01:05 pm
    Yes hats, in that second post, I have shown the poem in its entirety. Sorry for the confsuion.

    That first post is actually the epigram for the book SAVAGE BEAUTY and Nancy Mitford used only that second stanza.

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 01:07 pm
    I am glad you and Ella are here. I can't believe you have read all of Renascence. It's really long. I tried this morning. I didn't get far. I am going to read over what I read this morning. Maybe I can get a little further.

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 01:11 pm
    Maybe we could discuss it on the board and break it into parts? I don't want to take the lead here but I'm just unaware of how this poetry section works exactly.

    hats- I just sat down and read the whole of Renascence to Colby He loved it!!!

    I can give you this hint. She takes on the sins and pressures of the world, is buried, and rises again to to know God in His identity. Let me know if you need more help- I don't profess to be an expert by any stretch- I just love the poem and it speaks to my soul. She was only 19 when she began it. Astounding!

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 01:15 pm
    Nineteen! Golly, that's awful young. She was a genius. Her poems are beautiful.Cathie, don't worry! Anna gives us all the freedom in the world. It's very relaxed here. You are just adding to our knowledge.

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 01:17 pm
    I am glad Colby loves poetry.

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 01:36 pm
    I have taken part of the poem, Renascence, which speaks to me.

    A man was starving in Capri;
    He moved his eyes and looked at me;
    I felt his gaze, I heard his moan,
    And knew his hunger as my own.
    I saw at sea a great fog bank
    Between two ships that struck and sank;
    A thousand screams the heavens smote;
    And every scream tore through my throat.


    No hurt I did not feel, no death
    That was not mine; mine each last breath


    This part of the poem makes me think of the ultimate compassion. To be able to feel the pain of others, no matter how far away, how different they are, is a high goal. One I would love to gain in this life. Never to hear myself say, "hey, that's not my problem. I don't care." I have heard people say those very words.

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 01:37 pm
    It is the whole beginning of "Renascence" that goes pass my understanding. I did get further on the second reading.

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 02:06 pm
    In the begiining part, hats, I think she is simply describing being out in nature when she is struck with all the sins of humanity.

    Infinity

    Pressed down upon the Finite me."...she says.

    Keep reading it over and aloud and it will begin to flow and make sense. I can't make sense of every single line either, hats, but I get the idea of the totality of her idea, if that makes any sense. Sort of like don't dissect every line, but grab onto what you do understand and run with it- much like reading Shakespeare, i think.

    hats
    August 1, 2006 - 02:08 pm
    Cathie, thanks for the encouragement.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 1, 2006 - 03:05 pm
    Such a plaintive poem - matched my mood today - do not know if it the heat or mid-summer doldrums or the awful news that I cannot stop watching, learning and having opinions about other cultures and what they value.

    It is the very beginning that to me not only grabbed me as I read those lines more than any until the last lines that wrap up the poem but the sadness I read behind those lines - the sadness that makes tummy clutch - the sadness of suggesting we see only the boundaries of this universe.

    Regardless of Religion which I see as an organized set of behavior to achieve the purpose as explained by that Religion to me there is a greater spirituality that is the mystery beyond the universe - the mystery that takes in mythology - the unexplainable that we in our bounded humanity try to put into words.

    Then I think on words and see we are bound by our language just as in her poem she seems to yearn for more than she can trace with her finger. The - what is behind the sky - thought that she shares. And I think how the sky is always in flux and our words can only describe like a photograph of time limited by our language, our imagination, our culture. Do we ever really describe anything I wonder - are dumb silent animals closer to the heart of the universe so they can sense what is beyond or again is that wishful thinking looking for what is beyond the sky.

    If we could see beyond the sky would we really love what we see I wonder - would we try to put the mystery into words and therefore create another horizon limited by our words, our imagination, our culture...

    I do not see beauty in the infinite and that is what I think St. Vincent Millay is saying - when I am at the coast the endlessness of the water borders on terror - an empty sky within a few minutes does seem as if it will crash in or if lying on my back I feel as if the sky will absorb me - until an eagle, a V of migrating geese, a plane or, even some clouds add life to the sky.

    Some upon success prefer the mountain top - I have always preferred the valley - not because I want to avoid facing the infinite but because for my the infinite is within - I love the familiar within my earthly boundaries and I truly love words although they bind me they are like a quilt tucked in by my mother on a cold night. My mother crochet my quilt that is an afghan that accompanied me as scared as I was to the hospital when I was five and through all my ups and downs in life - the afghan was crochet with all the left over yarn from all the sox, mittens and sweaters of my early youth and wrapped in my afghan I can explore the mysteries of the infinite.

    When I read this poem my thought is the terror of the infinite seems more important to the poem than the mystery that many have tried to share with mythology, magic, rituals and religion.

    And so the lines that speak to me are:

    So with my eyes I traced the line
    Of the horizon, thin and fine,
    Straight around till I was come
    Back to where I'd started from;
    And all I saw from where I stood
    Was three long mountains and a wood.
    Over these things I could not see;
    These were the things that bounded me;
    And I could touch them with my hand,
    Almost, I thought, from where I stand.
    And all at once things seemed so small
    My breath came short, and scarce at all.
    But, sure, the sky is big, I said;
    Miles and miles above my head;
    So here upon my back I'll lie
    And look my fill into the sky.
    And so I looked, and, after all,
    The sky was not so very tall.
    The sky, I said, must somewhere stop,
    And -- sure enough! -- I see the top!
    The sky, I thought, is not so grand;
    I 'most could touch it with my hand!
    And, reaching up my hand to try,
    I screamed to feel it touch the sky.

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 03:21 pm
    Wow Barb- that was depressing, if I may say so. I look at this soooo differently.

    I do feel comfort in the sky and in all of nature. I do think we describe things- every day in many ways- and I believe in hope. If I didn't, I couldn't go on. I don't feel bound by language either- my heart and actions can speak volumes when words fail me.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 1, 2006 - 03:38 pm
    AAh I hear you Cathie however, I am thinking of Taoist insight that everything is impermanent - our thoughts are simply an extension of our culture and our ability to express our feelings which are all of our world and bound by our world - where as everything is under way, in motion, passing, impermanent, samsaric. We use our thoughts in words to describe our view of the impermanent experience and our feelings about the what our senses allow us to perceive.

    Just look at your son - as wonderful as it was when he uttered his first word the second time was joyful but not the wonder of the first - each of our experiences last for a photo shot minutes - our life is not static - we move with a flow that we do not control.

    I am suggesting that there is something beyond - something that is a mystery - something that man has tried to explain using mythology and others use religion to try to explain. God if you will... and the infinite is either something of terror as the poem seems to be suggesting or of God which is a comfort - but even at that our ability to perceive God is limited by our imagination, culture and language [thoughts].

    What I found plaintive about the poem is that the mystery that many of us call God and others explain in mythology, expressed in ritual is missing, leaving only the terror and unfair experiences of the living so that infinity crashes in till our death.

    To me it is that mystery within infinity that is hope...hope in the unknown in which faith allows us the courage to love each other in spite of the unknown terror of infinity rather than the protecting ourselves with the ultimate isolation of death.

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 03:42 pm
    I'm going to have to reread what you'vw written because I'm not getting it yet. Esp[cially these two paragraphs, i can't understand exactly what' you're saying.

    What I found plaintive about the poem is that the mystery that many of us call God and others explain in mythology, expressed in ritual is missing, leaving only the terror and unfair experiences of the living so that infinity crashes in till our death.

    To me it is that mystery within infinity that is hope...hope in the unknown in which faith allows us the courage to love each other in spite of the unknown terror of infinity rather than the protecting ourselves with the ultimate isolation of death.

    annafair
    August 1, 2006 - 03:43 pm
    as I read your thoughts and the words Millay wrote..Perhaps since she wrote her wonderful poem at 19 the feelings and the words are the feelings of youth ..I dont mean we have to be young to be moved but somewhere inside our aging selves still lie the rings of spring..and to me Millay has caught that with her words, 17 was the time I realized that youth was behind me , and a part of me had to move on ..There was a world out there and I would be part of it.. my parents no longer could protect me ,,childhood was left behind but I didnt just want to exist I wanted to truly BE and somehow Millay caught that time for me ..and those feelings are timeless..because the rings of my spring are there,. the sap moves slower there but it moves and dreams and feels

    You have all been so eloquent with your words and I feel we are off to a great month.I think all the years when I would sit alone and read poetry aloud to myself what I always wanted I am finding it here. Good friends who loved poetry as I, we would share the poems we loved, read them and share what they meant , I knew if ever I could have that dream it would be fulfilling my deepest needs.

    Perhaps we are all autumn people..We are born in spring..and grow from birth to adulthood by Autumn and there we stand , recognizing we are now grown and the while we miss our childhood we find Autumn so excrutiatingly lovely ...it is the gift before winter's dark days. Once when I was out driving in early September I came around a curve and in the middle of a field stood a huge tree, It was the only one there and only a few leaves remained on the tree but beneath it the ground was covered with all these leaves the color of old gold and I was over come because to me it was a pirates treasure waiting to be found..For me I HOLD AUTUMN because to let it go means winter is near and I dont know if there will be another spring ..so I say to autumn STAY STAY STAY ..

    I am not even sure I make sense ..You can only see when you do a post a few lines of what you have said ..and its only after you post can you see the whole thing Didnt I say we were off to a good start >?? Make that wonderful and special and unique .. what a special month this promises to be .. anna

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 1, 2006 - 03:45 pm
    Whoops we are all on here at the same time - Cathie I added another sentence to my above explanation using your son as an example without knowing you had posted - I hope that helps.

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 03:58 pm
    Barb,

    I'm going to print out your posts and try to digest them. I'll post a reply tomorrow. I really WANT to understand what you're telling me.

    Yes, anna- we seem to be off to a wonderful start and I'm loving it. See you all tomorrow.

    BaBi
    August 1, 2006 - 04:22 pm
    Autumn has always been my favorite season, but as I grow older I find the beauty of Spring making its own claims on my affections. I am equally entranced by a shrub burgeoning with flowers, or a tiny blossom half-hidden beneath a leaf. Autumn is a sky of incredible blue, making a background for the changes from green to vivid yellow, orange and red, all blessed by the longed-for cool breezes.

    Millay's poems reveal a deeply empathic person, IMO. So much so, that it must sometimes be overwhelming. I think a truly empathic person must sometimes need to retreat, for their own protection. Perhaps that is why she said that 'East and West would crush your heart' if you were not able to push them apart.

    Babi

    CathieS
    August 1, 2006 - 04:57 pm
    Earlier, I said this, knowing something wasn't right:

    That first post is actually the epigram for the book SAVAGE BEAUTY and Nancy Mitford used only that second stanza.

    The word should be EPIGRAPH, not epigram. It probably matters to no one but me, but I needed to correct it.

    annafair
    August 2, 2006 - 03:51 am
    This poem sounds cool and I mean temperature ...it will be 102 here today and to be outdoors is almost unbearable .But when I read this poem I could picture myself on a hillside and it was such a pleasent day, And I felt cool ...Millay paints mind pictures with her words and takes us with her.anna

    Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay




    Afternoon on a Hill


    I will be the gladdest thing
    Under the sun!
    I will touch a hundred flowers
    And not pick one.


    I will look at cliffs and clouds
    With quiet eyes,
    Watch the wind bow down the grass,
    And the grass rise.


    And when lights begin to show
    Up from the town,
    I will mark which must be mine,
    And then start down!

    MarjV
    August 2, 2006 - 05:18 am
    What a magnificent scene Edna painted in "Afternoon on a hill". How I'd love to do that - in weather that is more temperate of course!

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 05:46 am
    I can feel the coolness of the poem too. What a perfect time for this poem. I can see the flowers too. I remember planting gladiolas one years. All of the bulbs came up. Then, the blooms began disappearing, one at a time, each day another bloom would go. The little boy nearby had began picking the flowers. They were very pretty to him. So, my favorite lines in this poem are,

    I will touch a hundred flowers
    And not pick one.

    MarjV
    August 2, 2006 - 06:42 am
    Came across this book on Amazon- looks like it would be fun to read - scroll down to see the synopsis.

    Bobbed Hair and Bathtub Gin: Writers Running Wild in the Twenties

    About 4 female writers including Millay.

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 06:43 am
    MarjV, thank you for the title.

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 06:47 am
    THURSDAY


    And if I loved you Wednesday,
    Well, what is that to you?
    I do not love you Thursday–
    So much is true.


    And why you come complaining
    Is more than I can see.
    I loved you Wednesday,–yes–but what
    Is that to me?


    Edna St. Vincent Millay

    This seems like a light poem to me. This is a woman secure in herself. She is not ready for a commitment. I married at twenty two or three. What would it have been like to wait until thirty or forty to marry? I left my parents house. Then, I married. I have never lived alone. It's a sense of slyness and fun in this one. I don't know if "slyness" is the proper word.

    CathieS
    August 2, 2006 - 07:01 am
    Barb- If it's ok, I have decided to respond directly to the points in your post. My comments should be in bold, if I did it right. First this one:

    Such a plaintive poem - matched my mood today - do not know if it the heat or mid-summer doldrums or the awful news that I cannot stop watching, learning and having opinions about other cultures and what they value.

    It is the very beginning that to me not only grabbed me as I read those lines more than any until the last lines that wrap up the poem but the sadness I read behind those lines - the sadness that makes tummy clutch - the sadness of suggesting we see only the boundaries of this universe.

    I don't experience sadness in this poem, only joy and an ecstacy over her realization of God.

    Regardless of Religion which I see as an organized set of behavior to achieve the purpose as explained by that Religion to me there is a greater spirituality that is the mystery beyond the universe - the mystery that takes in mythology - the unexplainable that we in our bounded humanity try to put into words.

    I rarely talk religion online (and even saying that has gotten me into trouble) but I see religion as an attempt for man to create order out of chaos- a way for man to explain his place and purpose in the world. I am a Christian- but I abhor religious intolerance of any kind and I do not feel that my belief is the ONE TRUE BELIEF. This is a very hard concept for people to understand so I just leave it between my God and me. It's really none of anyone's business but His and mine anyhow. I find arguing about religion a total waste of time, frankly, because how can you argue an intangible like faith, which by its very essesence is intangible and unprovable? I also feel that if we would only allow people to worship their own God, in the way they see fit for themselves and their culture, we'd be better off. Isn't that why our country was founded?

    Then I think on words and see we are bound by our language just as in her poem she seems to yearn for more than she can trace with her finger. The - what is behind the sky - thought that she shares. And I think how the sky is always in flux and our words can only describe like a photograph of time limited by our language, our imagination, our culture. Do we ever really describe anything I wonder - are dumb silent animals closer to the heart of the universe so they can sense what is beyond or again is that wishful thinking looking for what is beyond the sky.

    This thought about animals is a very interesting one. I like it and want to think about it more. You may be onto something here, Barb. I will say this- that to me- everything in life boils down to love- loving and being kind to others as we go through life. (And I'm NOT saying I'm perfect in that respect but it is, for me, the way to heaven).Animals do love unconditionally and are eternally faithful so they may indeed be more "pure" than us in that respect.

    If we could see beyond the sky would we really love what we see I wonder - would we try to put the mystery into words and therefore create another horizon limited by our words, our imagination, our culture...

    We may, just because of our natures but I don't think that's a bad thing, either.

    I do not see beauty in the infinite and that is what I think St. Vincent Millay is saying - when I am at the coast the endlessness of the water borders on terror - an empty sky within a few minutes does seem as if it will crash in or if lying on my back I feel as if the sky will absorb me - until an eagle, a V of migrating geese, a plane or, even some clouds add life to the sky.

    I recall feeling this way when I was younger, Barb. Laying out looking at the stars frightened me with the vastness of it, and particularly by the smallness of myself that I felt. I did feel vulnerable. I can only say that since my thirties, that has changed. When I look up now, I feel very much a part of it all. This is what my faith has brought to me.

    Some upon success prefer the mountain top - I have always preferred the valley - not because I want to avoid facing the infinite but because for my the infinite is within - I love the familiar within my earthly boundaries and I truly love words although they bind me they are like a quilt tucked in by my mother on a cold night. My mother crochet my quilt that is an afghan that accompanied me as scared as I was to the hospital when I was five and through all my ups and downs in life - the afghan was crochet with all the left over yarn from all the sox, mittens and sweaters of my early youth and wrapped in my afghan I can explore the mysteries of the infinite.

    When I read this poem my thought is the terror of the infinite seems more important to the poem than the mystery that many have tried to share with mythology, magic, rituals and religion.

    Again, I don't feel that terror, though Edna might have, I don't know. But I don't get it from her words. I love how poetry speaks to our souls in so many different ways. I hope I have responded well and coherently here, Barb. I will tackle your other post some time later. I need to reskim my f2f group book for tonight and get going around this house.

    Cathie&Colby

    CathieS
    August 2, 2006 - 07:48 am
    Hymns speak to me the same way that poetry does and in church, the music stirs my soul like nothing else.

    In this dark time of my life right now, I sing this hymn every morning and evening. I have no earthly idea of anyone else's persuasion here but I am posting it for you to hear and perhaps enjoy, no matter your religion. The words go along with the music. Be sure to have your speakers on.

    IT IS WELL WITH MY SOUL

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 07:55 am
    The Plaid Dress


    Strong sun, that bleach
    the curtains of my room, can you not render
    Colourless this dress I wear?-- This violent plaid
    of purple angers and red shames; the yellow stripe
    of thin but valid treacheries; the flashy green of kind
    deeds done
    Through indolence, high judgments given in haste;
    The recurring checker of the serious breach of taste?


    No more uncoloured than unmade,
    I fear, can be this garment that I may not doff;
    Confession does not strip it off,
    To send me homeward eased and bare;


    All through the formal, unoffending evening, under
    the clean
    Bright hair,
    Lining the subtle gown...it is not seen,
    But it is there.

    Edna St. Vincent Millay

    In the past I think our clothes told a story. I remember many of my dresses, sweaters or skirts. I remember what I was doing, wear I was going, what I was thinking. This is why, I guess, grandmothers made quilts from old clothing. We could point at a piece of print and the scrap could tell a whole story. I don't know if clothes are worn long enough now to tell a story.

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 08:33 am
    I think "The Plaid Dress" is also about trying to do away with past mistakes or regrets. "It is well with my soul," to me, fits along with "The Plaid Dress" by Edna St. Vincent Millay.

    Cathie, thank you for the link. I will bookmark the link. I always like to know why those old favorite hymns were written.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 2, 2006 - 09:11 am
    Cathie how wonderful of you to take my thoughts and try to sort them out as compared to your own - your hard work doing that just reminds me again how often we have heard or read an author explain that once their work is read by another it is no longer all theirs since we bring to the read our own life experiences, culture, and philosophy. You sound like a caring, curious, person who is about more than your daily needs - what a joy it will be as we get to know you and you share more of your reactions to the poets and the poems we explore. A 'by the way' -- we are not about consensus in this discussion so please do not feel compelled to have a similar reaction to a poem as another poster if it does not fit.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 2, 2006 - 09:40 am
    Wow Hats you picked a doozy with the Plaid Dress - yes, you are so right - our clothes are not worn over and over with hems let out and trims added to allow us to wear the dress just one more year. The other sadness is the cloth itself sure is not the soft cottons that seemed indestructible so that the quilts lasted and lasted.

    I must say though, parts of this poem confuse me...

    This violent plaid
    of purple angers and red shames; the yellow stripe
    of thin but valid treacheries;

    the part of us that is uncomfortable at best - in fact the part of us that when tapped often brings us shame - not embarrassment but the disabling feeling of shame that says we are not worthy.

    This part I had to read again and again to realize she is not saying something positive she is suggesting that some of us or some times we are doing kind deeds in a flashy way, calling attention to our kindness and then she seems to make a quick switch to deeds done through indolence

    I looked up indolence to be sure and yes, it means inactivity resulting from the dislike of work - I am not sure I get the connection here unless she is suggesting good deeds are something we do to call attention to ourselves or we do not do them at all because we do not like the work involved? This is where I am confused... because she goes on about high judgment given in haste; so maybe she is saying we do not want to take the time to do the work to understand and so we substitute being judgmental...???

    the flashy green of kind
    deeds done
    Through indolence, high judgments given in haste;

    What do you get out of that bit...?

    Then she finishes the stave off with a bit of irony -

    The recurring checker of the serious breach of taste?

    After suggesting some serious flaws in our character she simply reduces them, although "serious," however a "breach of taste" - Millay is using a question mark therefore I wonder is she really saying so many others at the time see these flaws only as serious breach of taste and she is ironically pointing out as she says later in the poem Confession does not strip it off, therefore, with that phrase she comes down on the seriousness side of this behavior rather than the lighter and droll use of words breach of taste.

    I like that you see it as her addressing her own regrets and maybe the confusion I see is a tug of conscious where we like to white wash our shaming behavior by seeing it only as a matter of taste rather than something worthy of Confession. hmmm

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 10:25 am
    Barbara, I like the way you have worked with "The Plaid Dress." You were able to dig much further and discovered more gold nuggets.

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 11:36 am
    I am rereading "The Plaid Dress." I see a religious thought in the poem. I feel that she is saying not even "confession" to a Higher Power can release her from past guilts. She wishes wrongful deeds or wrongful thoughts could wash away with a strong bleaching agent.

    Strong sun, that bleach
    The curtains of my room, can you not render
    Colourless this dress I wear?--


    Then, this is where I think of a religious confession or repentance.

    Confession does not strip it off,
    To send me homeward eased and bare;

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 11:40 am
    Then, even when no bad thought or action has been taken, she is still plagued by the "violent" colors of the past. I think the magic words here are: unoffending, clean.

    All through the formal, unoffending evening, under
    the clean
    Bright hair,
    Lining the subtle gown...it is not seen,
    But it is there.

    I think she can not forgive herself.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 2, 2006 - 12:04 pm
    Whoops posting at the same time - sure sounds like it Hats - now I wish I had read Savage Beauty to learn of her childhood so I could have a clue why she has such a sever reaction to her character - I understand she lost a parent while young - I need to go find a bio and see if there is a clue to all this mia cuppa...

    IT is difficult to escape the serious message in most of her poems isn't it - however, here is one I think a bit lighter although the second stave we have her connecting the storm to her inner storm. However, I do not sense a dark mood here - I think since she says occupations she may be suggesting the way the muse affects her compelling her to write - but wait she says occupation[s] so maybe she means anything she attempts and her approach is to tackle them after her mind is whipped high by tempest in the night

    Cap D'Antibes


    The storm is over, and the land has forgotten the storm; the
    trees are still.
    Under this sun the rain dries quickly.
    Cones from the sea-pines cover the ground again
    where yesterday for my fire I gathered all in sight;
    but the leaves are meek. The smell of the small alyssum that
    grows wild here
    in in the air. It is a childish morning.

    More sea than land am I; my sulky mind, whipped high by
    tempest in the night, is not so soon appeased.
    Into my occupations with dull roar
    it washes,
    it recedes.
    Even as at my side in the calm day the disturbed
    Mediterranean
    lurches with heavy swell against the bird-twittering shore.
    I thought it interesting the four times she indents a phrase - I read the four phrases thinking there was another message trees are still. - grows wild here - tempest in the night, is not so soon appeased. - Mediterranean without pushing for a lot of symbolism that to me this poem is not about, I do not get another message. Except that it looks pretty on the page I do not see the use of the form that includes these four indented phrases. Does anyone have any ideas...

    The poem is from her collection in WINE FROM THESE GRAPES 1934

    annafair
    August 2, 2006 - 12:06 pm
    being expressed here .. funny when I first read The Plaid Dress I didnt think she was describing a dress at all but her inner self .., the person she knew she was inside.

    If you have read her bio you know she lived a very unconventional life. One that many would have condemned and I think she herself had trouble with her feelings .I think Hats may be thinking what I am ....

    Gee and I know this sounds ridiculous but my mother never wore makeup ..so I was envious of the discarded makeup my friends had to play with and use and once I stole a used lipstick from my friend Betty;s box of her mothers used lipsticks. There were at least two dozen used ones and Betty never knew that I had taken one. Well it haunted me for years Like Millay I felt I was dressed in scarlet inside. The gown I wore inside was stained with my sin ..( and a few others along the way) because I have faith that God does forgive I did forgive that little girl who longed for a used lipstick but years later when we went back home for my 40th HS class reunion I purchased one of the finest and most exspensive lipsticks, gift wrapped it and gave it to her. She was so astounded and laughed at me, hugged me and said I could have had a dozen since her mom was always buying more.. But to be truthful when I finally gave her that lipstick for the first time I truly felt my inside garment was now white as snow.

    maybe I am only seeing this little sin of mine but Millay had red hair and even when she was washed and clean and in a fine gown her stain was still there.

    And thanks so much for the words and link to the song..The songs I can still sing from memory are the songs from the churches I attended they were also the songs my mother sang as she worked around the house. sadly with my hearing loss I cannot bear to hear the sound of the music since all the melody is lost to me and what I do hear is so discordent I want to hold my hands over my ears. I am glad those melodies are stored in my mind so I can still enjoy them.

    and it is HOT as HADES here today ...augh ...anna

    Scrawler
    August 2, 2006 - 12:11 pm
    O world, I cannot hold thee close enough!
    Thy winds, thy wide grey skies!
    Thy mists, that roll and rise!
    Thy woods, this autumn day, that ache and sag
    And all but cry with colour! That gaunt crag
    To crush! To lift the lean of that black bluff!
    World, World, I cannot get thee close enough!

    Long have I known a glory in it all,
    But never knew I this;
    Here such a passion is
    As stretcheth me apart, - Lord, I do fear
    Thou'st made the world too beautiful this year;
    My soul is all but out of me, - let fall
    No burning leaf; prithee, let no bird call.

    ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay

    What wonderful imagery! Can't you imagine the woods "crying out their colours" on an autumn day. It would seem that the poet echos all your thoughts about beauty and passion.

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 12:12 pm
    Anna and Barbara,I would have loved to read her bio too.

    hats
    August 2, 2006 - 12:12 pm
    Barbara, I am rereading your poem. I am slow.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 2, 2006 - 12:23 pm
    uuhhwww I am comparing Cap D'Antibes to God's World: and can feel the difference as a description of age - the Autumn of our lives is filled with wind, the subtlety of mist, days that ache and sag, gaunt craigs and black bluffs - where as a childlike morning in Cap D'Antibes sounds like the tempest of a quick cry and the whipped activity that washes and recedes in bird twittering mornings.

    God's World: has me looking for Marlin to come out of the forest where as Cap D'Antibes reminds me of Winnie the Pooh and Tiger romping through life.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 2, 2006 - 12:51 pm
    Ok Anna this one is for you and anyone else under this punishing sol - We seem to have escaped the heatwave although Dallas did not - our temps have hovered between 98 and 104 which is typical for us this time of year - back a few years ago we did have a heat wave in which several days were hitting 115 and 116 - it broke with a deluge falling so quickly that while driving you could not see the vehicle next to you. I quick wrote this as soon as I got home.

    Summer 2001

    A fireball sun rose steady,
    steady and raw -
    probing, testing
    the long summer war.

    Spent Fields lay dry,
    dry and hard
    bleached stubble seared
    like a Gulf front yard.

    The air is hot,
    hot and fierce,
    blowing, blaring
    walls of crystal pyre.

    Frame buildings low,
    low and spread -
    sides propped open
    hide all who fled;

    Their sweat is sharp,
    sharp and bitter
    courting brown wrinkles
    cursing the eye,

    The eye is clear,
    clear and ready -
    gazing free, fixed
    on a malingering mirage.

    A hawk glides high,
    high, high and grand -
    feathers soaring
    un-roofs the land.

    A live oak is shelter,
    shelter and shade
    lowing cattle lazing
    where longhorns pervade.

    Forever the sky,
    blue and wide -
    thunderclouds swell
    north from the Gulf sea-lane.

    Crickets are still,
    still and many
    gorge, glean, gather
    summer’s seared remains.

    The lightening rigid,
    rigid and striate
    ripping, rushing sheets of water
    swelling every creek.

    The summer sun was over a hundred
    forty two days in a row, 'til
    roads were closed, creeks ran high,
    nine inches of rain in an hour.

    annafair
    August 2, 2006 - 04:06 pm
    Wow you built that poem to a crescendo and by the time I reached that last verse I could FEEL the weight of that rain..9 inches an hour ???even the words sound pounding NINE INCHES OF RAIN IN AN HOUR

    I read it out loud and believe me when you emphasis those seven words it is HEAVY Incredible...thanks for sharing that one I would love some rain ..the squirrels in back yard are so hot they lay in the shade on my deck rails and believe me they look exhausted.! Only the door opening to let my dog out ( whom they know ) makes them abandon thier place and thier lethargic selves. ..anna

    BaBi
    August 2, 2006 - 04:44 pm
    I have always been fascinated by the way we associate colors with differing emotions or deeds. And the associations are so true, that most of them are understood by peoples of all cultures.

    purple angers and red shames; the yellow stripe of thin but valid treacheries; the flashy green of kind deeds done Through indolence

    Red is so often associated with shame, perhaps because we blush when ashamed. Red is also associated with anger, so I was interested that Millay used 'purple angers', adding a darker tone to anger. Yellow is equated with cowardice, and it is but a short step from cowardice to treachery. I wonder what to think of 'thin but valid treacheries'? Perhaps the small social treacheries of snide remarks, confidences betrayed.

    Green usually has very good connotations, but this is a 'flashy green', a suggestion of a thing done for show. But I agree, it is hard to think what sort of kind deed is done out of indolence.

    Babi

    Scrawler
    August 2, 2006 - 08:07 pm
    I looked in my heart while the wild swans went over.
    And what did I see I had not seen before?
    Only a question less or a question more;
    Nothing to match the flight of wild birds flying.
    Tiresome heart, forever living and dying,
    House without air, I leave you and lock your door.
    Wild swans, come over the town, come over
    The town again, trailing your legs and crying!

    "The selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    From the poem it seems Millay was suffering from the heat. But to me Wild swans or geese signal the approach of autum when they fly south for the winter. Perhaps in leaving her locked house and wishing that the swans would fly over the town the poet too wished to have autumn close at hand in order to stifle the heat. I took this poem to have a literal meaning to it, but it may also represent the coming of autumn in our own bodies.

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 05:12 am
    Babi, I like your comments about "The Plaid Dress." Your thoughts made my thoughts travel further.

    Scrawler, I am still thinking of the "Wild Swans." I can understand your comments. Thank you.

    Now I am going to read Barbara's poem.

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 05:14 am
    Barbara, your poem really catches everything about summer. I could feel the heat, stillness and then, the sudden rain while reading it. Thank you for sharing it. It's really very good.

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 05:35 am
    This is just a part of the poem "Rendezvous." These are the lines that struck me.

    Yet here I am, having told you of my quarrel with
    the taxi-driver over a line of Milton, and you
    laugh; and you are you, none other.
    Your laughter pelts my skin with small delicious
    blows.


    I love the line about "laughter." Isn't it fun and exciting? Each person is so uniquely different. Our fingerprints, our eyes, hair, down to our laughter. My son laughs in a unique way. I love the way Millay describes laughter as pelting the skin, just quickly touching the skin but lasting forever. We have become aware of someone's happiness.

    Alliemae
    August 3, 2006 - 05:36 am
    So far I can see how each reader of Millay's poetry can respond to her words by their own experience.

    But I don't get the feeling that this poet writes to share experiences with others but more to express herself, to herself, for herself in what seems to me a self-absorption that maybe this month I have a low tolerence for. I have a family member...young...almost as old as Millay when she died, who has 'her candle lit at both ends' and believe me it is NOT making a 'pretty light' in fact at the very center where it is being held are life-threatening explosives. Perhaps I should not be sharing this but I want the group to know why I am having a hard time participating in the discussion of this poet.

    There is a difference between the self-absorption of "Anne of Green Gables" who eventually grows into a responsible adult and what seems to me in Millay so far to be self-absorbed and never giving a care to how it affects others. It's ALL about her...(IMHO)

    I am reading her and I'm keeping up with the posts because this is a famous poet and from the very miniscule amount of knowledge I myself possess of poetry she is a great poet, poetically speaking. I am in the 'baby steps' stages of poetry appreciation. So far I either liked a poem or I didn't and if I did I read it again and many times memorized it and if not it was a small blip in my past.

    I no longer do this, especially with the masters of any form of art simply because I don't understand that particular art form. I'm finally just learning the difference between types of poetry in fact, just yesterday I learned the actual definitions of the difference between a poem and a sonnet.

    I am impressed--sometimes astounded--by the depth and height and breadth of knowledge of poetry that I see in this room, so much so that at times I have, even in just the first couple of days of this month, felt dashed into the 'slough of despond' by what seems to be my lack of perception.

    I will, therefore, use this month as a sort of poetry course...going through it as though assigned because I feel I'm learning a great deal about poetry that I never even dreamed existed and I'm also learning the mechanics and vernacular of poetry.

    I will start today's lesson trying to relate to Millay's meanings of colors by comparing them in context to the thoughts she is expressing because, even there I feel handicapped:

    By me,
    Red is joy and excitement
    Yellow is enlightenment and expansion of soul
    Blue is steady, honest, factual and 'true'
    Green is health and peace
    and,
    Purple is regal and strong.

    I hope none of you minds my 'chuntering on' like this but I miss the group, even when I can't keep up with it and so I do want to stick with it.

    I am waiting for my 'About Poetry' by Mary Oliver and like I said, I'm reading all the poems and discussion posts. And I will read a biography of Millay and hope I can take it!! So wish me well and if I ask too many questions or let off too much steam just let me know.

    Thanks much, Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 3, 2006 - 05:45 am
    BaBi, I hope you know that my previous post was not pointed at your post about color. I'm just so frustrated by so many things abut this poet and color comparisons just seemed the handiest example. So please understand my post in the good will it was given as I feel certain you will, now that I have explained.

    Thanks, BaBi...Allie

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 05:50 am
    Alliemae, thank you for sharing that very personal story. I feel, maybe I am wrong, that after a poem is out of the hands of a poet, it becomes a gift to me. So, I interpret the poem by my experiences which are probably very different from the poet's personal life.

    Is it possible that the poets make their personal experiences public in hopes that the reader might never reach into their hearts and know their true thoughts?

    If we strive to match our feelings to the poets exact feelings, I feel we will lose some of the spontaneous joy. Anna, gives us freedom here to meet different poets from different countries. Thankfully, we are not asked to read with a book of critcisms in hand. We are free to be as playful as children. Each day meeting a new poem that expresses our particular feelings.

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 05:57 am
    Alliemae, even expressing your feelings about the poet is a freedom here at Poetry Corner. At first, I had trouble with Edna St. Vincent Millay too. I realized her spirit had gotten in the way. I had allowed her inner self to take over my mind. Maybe this is because we are so aware of her biography, Savage Beauty. Once I put myself in her poems and again put the feelings of the posters in my head, I could begin to feel a liking, a magical spirit in her poems.

    Not all lines of one poem will speak to us. If we were studying her biography, like the discussion Ella led, our objectives or goals would change. Then, we could not remove Millay from the poems. Her thoughts and life would dictate what the poems say or don't say.

    Am I rambling? I hope not.

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 06:25 am
    Alliemae, I do intend to read a biography of Millay. That's a good idea. I don't have time to read one until, maybe, in the wintertime or after Christmas.

    annafair
    August 3, 2006 - 09:23 am
    Alliemae first you are right you see Millay as she really was . She was self indulgent and used the people in her life for her own purposes. I AM SO GLAD YOU WILL STAY WITH US....you would be missed keenly if you chose to stay away. And I love your poem about colors ..which is the way I see them to a "T" I love colors because I would hate to see the world in shades of gray..I have sewn for years and am addicted to fabric because I love the colors in the cloths.I will never be able to use all the fabric I have purchased and I regret that but I still do sew and I love to go through my "STASH" and just enjoy the colors and the texture..

    Now HATS has said it well .I think every poet writes from the kind of person they are. BUT when that poem is shared it belongs to the reader. One reason I hate to disect a poem like most professors do to see the whys and wherefores of why the poet wrote a poem is because when I am reading it I dont see it as THEIR Poem anymore but as MINE and what is says to me. Many poets like many people are often self centered , obnoxious, overbearing, but I forgive them all It is what their words mean to me that counts to me! I know some who have read some of my poems have asked if it was okay to see what it meant to them I SAY YES ABSOLUTELY YES ..I hope they will always find something good it them but once it leaves my mind and is on paper it becomes a gift to those who would read it and becomes their poem.

    Some poets who write I see nothing in them I can relate to, They seem the words of a sick mind and a sick soul And I have always said from my own expierence when I started writing poetry I CANNOT NOT write it. In that way I feel I understand a poet ..When I read Millay's story I see a girl who was not privleged , who longed to be a different person..who yearned to be part of the "OTHER SIDE OF TOWN" To me there is a lot of heartbreak in her poetry I could never be the kind of person she was but then my own background was so full of love and attention with loving and giving family how can I not feel a sadness for someone who missed that.

    And deep inside I feel she wished she could be different. To me it is a sadness that all of her success never gave her deep inside what she wanted.

    I hope I have defended her well as well as the other poets we read. Their poetry gives me insight not only into thier life but into mine. And when they have captured a time, a feeling ,a view where I can SEE it clear I am just so grateful anna

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 10:47 am
    Ditto - how trite that sounds but Anna said it so well - I know I would miss terribly the other voices that share how a poem affects them and what impresses them about the author and the words -

    Hats that was priceless in just a few words - the author's gift to us -

    And maybe that is how we can look at Millay - in all her self-absorption, she gave us a glimpse into her demons - not too often do we get a chance to examine someone's demons. For some reading Millay's poetry they may have a similar experience and therefore, they can relate where as still others her mind set is completely alien to their own lives.

    Here you go Alliemae - looks like Millay has a poem that could be dedicated to your perceptions...

    To Those Without Pity

    Cruel of hearty, lay down my song.
    Your reading eyes have done me wrong.
    Not for you was the pen bitten,
    and the mind wrung, and the song written.

    P.S. great that this discussion urges us all to learn more - however we are each enough as we are bringing to this discussion our life experiences that we use when we react to a poem - we really can learn from each other - I know I do all the time in this discussion more than most. The diversity of our interpretation is what I think makes for a richer reading of each poem...

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 11:28 am
    Here is a review on the back of a book title "Edna St. Vincent Millay/Selected Poems. It is written by Maya Angelou.

    "There are some who delight and inform. It's so much better, you see, for me, when a writer like Edna St. Vincent Millay speaks so deeply about her concern for herself, and does not offer us any altruisms. Then when I look through her eyes at how she see a black or an Asian my heart is lightened."

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 11:31 am
    I am not sure how to interpret the word "altruisms" in this review. I think of an altruistic spirit as outgoing and giving. Isn't Maya Angelou describing Millay as self centered? I see a contradiction. Could someone explain this review? I am puzzled.

    AMICAH
    August 3, 2006 - 12:30 pm
    I'm so happy to find this discussion of Millay. I had started reading Savage Beauty some time ago and put it away without finishing. I was attracted to her poems because of her expressions of lose and grief which mirrored my own at the time, I'm looking forward to this month of renewing my interest to all her poetry and finishing Savage Beauty.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 12:33 pm
    Yes Hats altruism is the quality of unselfish concern for the welfare of others - I think what Maya Angelou is saying is that Millay speaks from a concern for herself and offers us no concern for the welfare of others -

    I take that to mean we can be judgmental that Millay does not fit our accepted view of moral value however, during this time in history the examination of the ID was in high gear and it took science, philosophy, and the art world to probe our instincts that underlie our psychic activity.

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 12:39 pm
    Oh, Barbara, thank you for explaining. I couldn't piece it together.

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 01:06 pm
    I am still puzzled by Maya Angelou's review. If Millay does not have an altruistic spirit why would Angelou write "Then when I look through her eyes at how she sees a black or an Asian my heart is lightened.?"

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 01:18 pm
    Again I think we are so used to our response having to be an emotional response or a moral response where as Millay offers an logical response based in science. If we all have an ID then the question becomes are emotions an instinct or an adjusted reaction based in early social learning and is morality an expression of community.

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 01:20 pm
    Barbara, I am having a memory lapse. What is ID?

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 01:22 pm
    Oh dear I do not know how else to spell it but remember the beat generation was big in the id -- eeedddd is the best I can do - I am sure it was a short cut for Identity but it had more implications that just our Identity - seems to be it was a way to describe our ego...

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 01:24 pm
    Oh, ok.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 01:24 pm
    aha found a site that explains ego, super-ego, and id are the divisions of the psyche

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 01:36 pm
    Oh Id. I have heard it. The site will come in handy.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 01:40 pm
    now how do YOU spell Id in order to clarify

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 01:52 pm
    Who knows???????????

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 01:54 pm
    hahaheha

    hats
    August 3, 2006 - 01:59 pm

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 02:06 pm
    Here are a couple that may be close to what Angelou is suggesting...

    Counting-out Rhyme

    Silver bark of beech, and sallow
    Bark of yellow birch and yellow
    Twig of willow.

    Stripe of green in moosewood maple,
    Colour seen in leaf of apple,
    Bark of popple.

    Wood of popple pale as moonbeam,
    Wood of oak for yoke and barn-beam,
    Wood of hornbeam.

    Silver bark of beech, and hollow
    Stem of elder, tall and yellow
    Twig of willow.


    another following...

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 02:13 pm
    Intense and terrible, I think, must be the loneliness
    Of infants—look at all
    The Teddy-bears clasped in slumber in slatted cribs
    Painted pale-blue or pink.
    And all the Easter Bunnies, dirty and disreputable, that deface
    The white pillow and the sterile, immaculate, sunny, turning
    pleasantly in space,
    Dainty abode of Baby—try to replace them
    With new ones, come Easter again, fluffy and white, and with a
    different smell;
    Release with gentle force from the horrified embrace,
    That hugs until the stitches give and the stuffing shows,
    His only link with a life of his own, the only thing he really
    knows . . .
    Try to sneak it out of sight.
    If you wish to hear anger yell glorious
    From air-filled lungs through a throat unthrottled
    By what the neighbours will say;
    If you wish to witness a human countenance contorted
    And convulsed and crumpled by helpless grief and despair,
    Then stand beside the slatted crib and say There, there, and take the
    toy away.

    Pink and pale-blue look well
    In a nursery. And for the most part Baby is really good:
    He gurgles, he whimpers, he tries to get his toe to his mouth;
    he slobbers his food
    Dreamily—cereals and vegetable juices—onto his bib;
    He behaves as he should.

    But do not for a moment believe he has forgotten Blackness; nor the deep Easy swell; nor his thwarted
    Design to remain for ever there;
    Nor the crimson betrayal of his birth into a yellow glare.
    The pictures painted on the inner eyelids of infants juts before they
    sleep,
    Are not pastel.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 3, 2006 - 02:16 pm
    Both are subtle however we may have to be on the look out now for more poignant examples...

    BaBi
    August 3, 2006 - 04:32 pm
    BARBARA, I love the 'Counting-Out Rhyme'! Is it one of Millay's? I can't tell just from the post.

    After a couple of days of reading Millay poems, I found myself this morning with some lines from "Good Night, Irene" running thru' my mind. I'm sure you all know that oldie. Funny, I never realized until now that the lines are a bit strange in a song I thought was just about a boy saying 'Good Night' to his girlfriend.

    "Sometimes I live in the country, 
    Sometimes I live in town. 
    Sometimes I take a great notion 
    To jump into the river and drown."


    On a lighter note, is this one:

    Tavern

    I'll keep a little tavern Below the high hill's crest, Wherein all grey-eyed people May set them down and rest.

    There shall be plates a-plenty, And mugs to melt the chill Of all the grey-eyed people Who happen up the hill.

    There sound will sleep the traveller, And dream his journey's end, But I will rouse at midnight The falling fire to tend.

    Aye, 'tis a curious fancy -- But all the good I know Was taught me out of two grey eyes A long time ago.



    Babi

    annafair
    August 3, 2006 - 07:05 pm
    That was a new poem to me by Millay and I find myself drinking it in and wondering who the grey eyed person was...In any case I feel it was not only a wistful poem but one that pleased her to think it was sonething she might do...in any case it makes me fell calm ..Here is the poem I found to share today...I can truly relate to his poem and it makes me both a bit homesick and happy to recall the moan of tha train whistle and the song of the rails when I was in bed at night..Our home was at that time on the edge of town and about 4 blocks over were the train tracks..and a crossing ..the engineer always blew a warning as he approached the crossing and I would hear that and the sound of those steel wheels against the iron rails..later I was able to fulfill my dreams of someday boarding a train and traveling coast to coast..It is still my favorite way to travel ..so I am with Millay on this ..anna PS I miss those old trains ...

    Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay




    TRAVEL


    The railroad track is miles away,
    And the day is loud with voices speaking,
    Yet there isn't a train goes by all day
    But I hear its whistle shrieking.


    All night there isn't a train goes by,
    Though the night is still for sleep and dreaming
    But I see its cinders red on the sky,
    And hear its engine steaming.


    My heart is warm with the friends I make,
    And better friends I'll not be knowing,
    Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,
    No matter where it's going.


    ..

    Scrawler
    August 3, 2006 - 08:09 pm
    "We learn from everything we do. All creatures can be our teachers. We also learn from everything that happens, good and bad. In fact sometimes our adversaries provide us with most precious teachings." ~ "Awakening to the Sacred" ~ Lama Surya Das

    I shared this passage in another discussion, but I think it also applies here to Millay's poetry.

    Eel-Grass:

    No matter what I say
    All that I really love
    Is rain that flattens on the bay,
    And the eel-grass in the cove;
    The jingle-shells that lie and bleach
    At the tide-line, and the trace
    Of higher tides along the beach:
    Nothing in this place

    ~ "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    First she tells us what she loves and than she tells us there is "nothing in this place". To me the poet seems more concerned about herself than what is around her and like what the above passage suggests she hasn't learned anything from what she sees, but she should have.

    hats
    August 4, 2006 - 01:49 am
    Anna, I had travel in mind too.

    The railroad track is miles away,
    And the day is loud with voices speaking.
    Yet there isn't a train goes by all day
    But I hear its whistle shrieking.


    All night there isn't a train goes by,
    Though the night is still for sleep and dreaming.
    But I see its cinders red on the sky,
    And hear its engine steaming.


    My heart is warm with the friends I make,
    And better friends I'll not be knowing;<br.> Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,
    No matter where it's going.


    I love trains and train whistles. The sound of the wheels and the whistle blowing just makes me want to take off. While small I went to visit my grandmother in Florida by train.

    annafair
    August 4, 2006 - 08:28 am
    Most poems can and deserve to be posted more than once. Just makes me read them and enjoy them again..It is hard to remember each poem posted because everyone is so good about posting often and the number of posts add up. I say LET'S just enjoy each poem whether it is posted once or more!

    I am glad you too love trains...anna

    MarjV
    August 4, 2006 - 09:30 am
    Oh my - I just read 26 posts to catch up.

    This poem is rather a puzzle. For me it is saying that we cannot confine love, we cannot smother it, we cannot keep it in storage. We've all heard of possessive people and how dangerous that can get.

    "Never May the Fruit Be Plucked"

    Never, never may the fruit be plucked from the bough
    And gathered into barrels.
    He that would eat of love must eat it where it hangs.
    Though the branches bend like reeds,
    Though the ripe fruit splash in the grass or wrinkle on the tree,
    He that would eat of love may bear away with him
    Only what his belly can hold,
    Nothing in the apron,
    Nothing in the pockets.
    Never, never may the fruit be gathered from the bough
    And harvested in barrels.
    The winter of love is a cellar of empty bins,
    In an orchard soft with rot.

    ~E Millay

    BaBi
    August 4, 2006 - 11:57 am
    ANNAFAIR, the sound of a train whistle when all is quiet can still fill me with nostalgia. I long to be on the train, going wherever.

    SCRAWLER, I think the last line of "Eel-Grass" indicates that she is not on the beach when writing it. "Nothing in this place.." refers to where she presently is, not the beach she loves. At least, that's how I read it.

    Babi

    Alliemae
    August 4, 2006 - 01:50 pm
    Thanks to all who responded to my email about E. SV. Millay and also to those whose wisdom has given me greater insight into poetry, this poet, and even into life itself.

    Hats: "I feel, maybe I am wrong, that after a poem is out of the hands of a poet, it becomes a gift to me. So, I interpret the poem by my experiences which are probably very different from the poet's personal life....



    Very insightful Hats...Thanks! I feel your words will help me a lot...like they always do!

    anna: "Many poets like many people are often self centered , obnoxious, overbearing, but I forgive them all It is what their words mean to me that counts to me!"

    Words of wisdom as well, anna...thanks! You always reinforce with your postings the essence of what this group is about.

    Barbara: What can I say? Re: "Here you go Alliemae - looks like Millay has a poem that could be dedicated to your perceptions..."

    To Those Without Pity

    How thoughtful of you. If only Edna St. Vincent Millay were alive to be comforted by your sheltering and protecting her from "...those without pity..." and '...the Cruel of Heart'.

    Scrawler: "We learn from everything we do. All creatures can be our teachers. We also learn from everything that happens, good and bad. In fact sometimes our adversaries provide us with most precious teachings." ~ "Awakening to the Sacred" ~ Lama Surya Das"

    Although not particularly in response to me but for all of us, I'm really glad you posted this...I think I'll etch it into my brain...and my soul!! This makes me want to renew some of my former interest in Eastern Philosophy. I could use it's gentle touch to soften my 'rough edges'...

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 4, 2006 - 01:54 pm
    HOORAH!!

    Marj, with "Never May the Fruit Be Plucked" you've contributed a poem I absolutely LOVE by our poet of the monnth!!

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    August 4, 2006 - 08:02 pm
    Barbi, you may be right about your comment. I took it to mean she was still on the beach but blind to what she sees.

    Midnight Oil:

    Cut if you will, with Sleep's dull knife,
    Each day to half its length, my friend, -
    The years that Time takes off my life
    He'll take from off the other end!

    ~ "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    Personally, I don't think there are enough hours in the day as it is, I wouldn't want to have my day halved at all, but also don't want to go without my sleep. I don't quite follow the last to lines. What do you think she means by "The years that Time takes off my life/He'll take from off the other end!"

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 4, 2006 - 08:51 pm
    Scrawler my guess is the midnight oil suggests an oil lamp with a wick that is cut off each morning after it is burned black and useless to make light - the part that is not cut is still either in or soaked by oil and the wick is still a woven piece of cotton that you can see the weave.

    The way it reads sounds like she is using half a wick each night before sleep forces her to blow out the oil lamp. She is likening herself to a wick and the spent part or lived part or black part or part of her that tried and although spent, it was her - giving forth her effort. Therefore, she would prefer her time come when "HE" - the power over live and death which she is suggesting is a "HE" - takes from her the yet, unfolded part of who she is rather than her output.

    I guess you could take this even further by thinking the spent part of us, our output if judged after death, will present all sorts of waste and we are black, scorched from the fire. Whereas the clean slate of our possibilities can only be judged as pure goodness.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 4, 2006 - 09:01 pm
    Hats I think I found one that is closer to what Maya Angelou was suggesting.

    MACDOUGAL STREET

    As I went walking up and down to take the evening air,
    (Sweet to meet upon the street, why must I be so shy?)
    I saw him lay his hand upon her torn black hair;
    ("Little dirty Latin child, let the lady by!")

    The women squatting on the stoops were slovenly and fat,
    (Lay me out in organdie, lay me out in lawn!)
    And everywhere I stepped there was a baby or a cat;
    (Lord, God in Heaven, will it never be dawn?)

    The fruit-carts and clam-carts were ribald as a fair,
    (Pink nets and wet shells trodden under heel)
    She had haggled from the fruit-man of his rotting ware;
    (I shall never get to sleep, the way I feel!)

    He walked like a king through the filth and the clutter,
    (Sweet to meet upon the street, why did you glance me by?)
    But he caught the quaint Italian quip she flung him from the gutter;
    (What can there be to cry about that I should lie and cry?)

    He laid his darling hand upon her little black head,
    (I wish I were a ragged child with ear-rings in my ears!)
    And he said she was a baggage to have said what she had said;
    (Truly I shall be ill unless I stop these tears!)
    This so far this may be the first poem posted that is not all about Millay although, it is about her feelings and wants based on what she is seeing on MacDougal Street.

    hats
    August 5, 2006 - 07:43 am
    Barbara, thank you for posting this one about Macdougal Street. I am reading it over. I am not yet struck by any deep feelings. How does it strike you?

    hats
    August 5, 2006 - 07:52 am
    MarjV, thank you for posting "Never May the Fruit Be Plucked." It is a poem I want to read over and over. I feel Millay is saying we must share love. Give love again and again. Love will die or rot if not shared with another person.

    hats
    August 5, 2006 - 07:57 am
    Babi, I read "Eel Grass" in the same way. I think E. Millay is listing all she loves about the beach. She is not on the beach. This is what is causing her unhappiness, not being near the water proving that place, where we are, is so important to our mood and emotion.

    What are Jingle-Shells? I love the name.

    Alliemae
    August 5, 2006 - 08:20 am
    I meant 'responded to my posting'...surely not email!...don't know where my head was at that moment! :^)

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 5, 2006 - 08:28 am
    ...He'll take from off the other end!"

    This used to be a rather prevalent thought of mine when I was working as a geriatric nurse.

    When doctors and pharmaceutical companies tauted medications that would 'add years to your life', I wondered why that was such a big deal since the years wouldn't have been added in the middle when life was (for me at least at the time) terrifically exciting but at the very end when heaven only knew what condition I'd be in.

    Now, I'll take all the extra time I get!! It's all pretty exciting!!!

    Alliemae

    BaBi
    August 5, 2006 - 08:41 am
    SCRAWLER, I can testify to that. The tough times have always been where I grow stronger, learn my lessons and attain some wisdom.

    BARBARA, "MacDougal Street" is almost like reading two poems. One tells of all she saw while walking down MacDougal St. in the evening. Parenthetically, another poem tells of her sleeplessness and longing for tenderness and companionship. A very touching poem.

    This sonnet of hers, to me, brings up the same sense of loss.

    II

    Time does not bring relief; you all have lied 
      Who told me time would ease me of my pain! 
      I miss him in the weeping of the rain; 
    I want him at the shrinking of the tide; 
    The old snows melt from every mountain-side, 
      And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane; 
      But last year's bitter loving must remain 
    Heaped on my heart, and my old thoughts abide!  

    There are a hundred places where I fear To go, -- so with his memory they brim! And entering with relief some quiet place Where never fell his foot or shone his face I say, "There is no memory of him here!"


    Babi

    hats
    August 5, 2006 - 09:31 am
    Babi, this is one of the sonnets I love. When someone we love dies, I don't think time can heal the pain. Maybe the pain isn't as piercing but it never goes away completely. It remains a part of us as if to remind us of the person's presence.

    Babi, I think the last line completes the thought.

    These lines are my favorites.

    And entering with relief some quiet place
    Where never fell his foot or shone his face
    I say, "There is no memory of him here!"
    And so stand stricken, so remembering him.


    It is impossible to run away from the pain. Oddly, no place is safe from the painful reminder of a lost love. The pain is felt in places unknown to the one who is gone. The pain is all around. There is no hiding from it.

    hats
    August 5, 2006 - 09:37 am
    This is another poem about loss.

    Sorrow


    Sorrow like a ceaseless rain
    beats upon my heart.
    People twist and scream in pain,--
    Dawn will find them still again;
    This has neither wax nor wane,
    Neither stop nor start.


    People dress and go to town;
    I sit in my chair.
    All my thoughts are slow and brown:
    Standing up or sitting down
    Little matters, or what gown
    or what shoes I wear.


    I think this is why family and friends are so important during the loss of a loved one. Sorrow can paralyze us. It's impossible to think, to make choices. Each chair just pulls you down to sit and remember all over again. Wishing the day had never come. I have experienced this like so many of you.

    MarjV
    August 5, 2006 - 01:53 pm
    I sure can remember feelings like Millay writes in these 2 poems Babi and Hats posted on loss. She says it in a little different way in each one. Nontheless very strongly created

    ~Marj.

    Scrawler
    August 5, 2006 - 08:03 pm
    Am I kin to Sorrow,
    That so oft
    Falls the knocker of my door-
    Neither loud nor soft,
    But as long accustomed,
    Under Sorrow's hand?
    Marigolds around the step
    And rosemary stand,
    And then comes Sorrow-
    And what does Sorrow care
    For the rosemary
    Or he marigolds there?
    Am I kin to Sorrow?
    Are we kin?
    That so oft upon my door -
    Oh, come in!

    "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    Here's yet another poem about "sorrow." Once again I'd like to refer to something I quoted in another discussion: "Don't use karma like a weapon to blame yourself, fate, or anyone else for everything that goes wrong. It doesn't make sense to go so far in one direction that we are constantly overcome by feelings of guilt and shame; nor is it helpful to go overboard in the other direction and develop a nihuilistic approach as if nothing matters. As the Buddha said, stay blanced in all things." "Awakening to the Sacred" ~ Lama Surya Das

    Don't you think that Millay is doing just that? She is using her karma to blame fate and in so doing so she is not in balance with the world around her. I can't help but wonder what was in her personal life to make her feel this way or did her writings have anything to do with her personal life at all. Sometimes we forget that what a poet writes about is not really personal at all, but he/she is simply expressing her thoughts on the subject.

    hats
    August 6, 2006 - 02:11 am
    Scrawler, thank you for posting this poem. I had read "Kin to Sorrow" this weekend at some point. Sometime painful events come so quickly, almost one after another, in a person's life, it can make a person feel like "sorrow" knows exactly where they live and wants to partake of the comforts of their home only. When pain comes so fast and quickly, I think, people have the right to go through a process of wondering "why me?"

    Maybe my question is a wrong one. Why are we being so hard on Edna St. Vincent Millay? For some reason, we feel offended by her feelings. I too had to adjust my mind to her poems. I think she wears her heart on her sleeve. Her poems are like the songs known as the Blues. This poem reminds me of a Blues song titled "Good morning, Heartache.

    hats
    August 6, 2006 - 02:21 am
    Good Morning Heartache lyrics Written by Drake-Higginbotham-Fisher

    Oh, good morning heartache, here we go
    Here we go, here we go again, well
    Good morning heartache
    You're the one who knew me when
    I guess I might as well get used to you hanging around
    Good morning heartache, I see you're back in town
    Good morning heartache, why don't ya sit on down, sit down ------


    Many vocalists have sung this song: Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holliday, Tony Bennett, Diana Ross, Natalie Cole, etc.

    hats
    August 6, 2006 - 02:36 am
    I think this poem shows a sense of strength. The need to keep in motion when pain wants to slow us down.

    Lament


    Listen, children:
    Your father is dead.
    From his old coats
    I'll make you little jackets;
    I'll make you little trousers
    From his old pants.
    There'll be in his pockets
    Things he used to put there,
    Keys and pennies
    Covered with tobacco;
    Dan shall have the pennies
    To save in his bank;
    Anne shall have the keys
    To make a pretty noise with.
    Life must go on,
    And the dead be forgotten;
    Life must go on,
    Though good men die;
    Anne, eat your breakfast;
    Dan, take your medicine;
    Life must go on;
    I forget just why.


    Again, I think in this poem Millay describes painful situations so well. The daily chores have to be done, the world keeps spinning, and I wonder why everything goes on so naturally because my world has stopped. This is, I think, another process of grieving. My favorite lines are,

    Life must go on;
    I forget just why.

    hats
    August 6, 2006 - 02:41 am
    Earlier, in one of the poems, Jingle-Shells are mentioned. I have never heard of Jingle Shells. I did find some information and a photo.

    Jingle shells

    Alliemae
    August 6, 2006 - 10:11 am
    "Time does not bring relief; you all have lied" and

    "Where never fell his foot or shone his face I say, "There is no memory of him here!"

    This struck such a chord in me...here I have been!

    And when it happens you wonder how on earth your friends don't lose patience with you because it feels just like that: "No...I don't want to go there...I'll only remember him!" and then we go somewhere else and I'm shattered because there is nothing there to remind me of him!

    This poem by Millay I understand and also the next...and I wonder if some of these were written as she got older.

    Thanks for bringing this one to us, BaBi.

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    August 6, 2006 - 10:33 am
    How shall I know, unless I go
    To Cairo and Cathay,
    Whether or not this blessed spot
    Is blest in every way?

    Now it may be, the flower for me
    Is this beneath my nose;
    How shall I tell, unless I smell
    The Carthaginian rose?

    The fabric of my faithful love
    No power shall dim or ravel
    Whilst I stay here, - but oh, my dear
    If I should ever travel!

    "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    Perhaps, you are right Hats maybe Millay does wear her heart on her sleeve. Certainly, we all respond differently to "sorrow." I for one tend to isolate myself from others when I'm depressed or sorrowful, but other people might feel the need to be with people when they feel sorrow.

    I think Millay has shown through her poetry that she also isolated herself from others. I can relate to this. I too don't physically travel, but I do travel in my mind especially now that we have such tools as the Internet.

    To me though there is a sense of hopelessness in Millay's poems and I think this is what disturbs me. I think you can be isolated and still have hope. In fact isolation can be a relief sometimes.

    Alliemae
    August 6, 2006 - 10:46 am
    "This has neither wax nor wane,
    Neither stop nor start."

    Like MarjV, "I sure can remember feelings like Millay writes in these 2 poems Babi and Hats"

    "Kin to Sorrow" (Scrawler) and "Good Morning, Heartache" (Hats)

    WOW...talk about 'cooperating with the inevitable' which Dale Carnegie used to talk about...

    Two different times but one idea...

    Hats, I wouldn't have connected that if you hadn't brought it to the discussion! Thanks! and Thank You, Scrawler for bringing that poem...seems we are on a roll of poems I 'get'...

    Scrawler, I have found Lama Surya Das on line and will find his "Awakening to the Sacred"...the name sounded so familiar and now I understand why. His reminds me of Baba Ram Das's name from the 1960's and 1970's and his "Be Here Now" and "The Only Dance There Is."

    Your "As the Buddha said, stay blanced in all things." is the key...and it never goes out of style.

    Hats, re: Lament. This poem of Millay's has the most depth for me so far, being a mother of four children. And my favorite lines also are:

    "Life must go on;
    I forget just why."

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 6, 2006 - 10:53 am
    Yes, and in addition to the sorrow expressed, I have wondered if possibly Millay suffered from clinical depression or maybe even bipolarity. The medical profession in those days was not so aware of those disorders or how to diagnose them.

    Alliemae

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 6, 2006 - 11:18 am
    Well a change of pace - or is it - because I am finally on overload with the war news - between the death and destruction of Lebanon and now the killing and major, major bribery [4 Billion Dollars!!!!] as a way of life in Iraq I am feeling beyond helpless - nothing some of us have said about getting out of this part of the world is even acknowledged, you hear spin on top of spin from those who you expect to bring a tone of civility to the world and so now I am finally done in... this sonnet - number XXIV - in the 1931 collection Fatal Interview - says it all for me. I plan on retreating into building my garden and I will pull the plug on the TV.

    Whereas at morning in a Jeweled Crown
    I bit my fingers and was hard to please,
    having shook disaster till the fruit fell down
    I feel tonight more happy and at ease:
    feet running in the corridors, men quick -
    buckling their sword-belts, bumping down the stair,
    challenge, and rattling bridge-chain, and the click
    of hooves on pavement - this will clear the air.
    Private this chamber as it has not been
    in many a month of muffled hours; almost,
    lulled by the uproar, I could lie serene
    And sleep, until all's won, until all's lost,
    And the door's opened and the issue shown,
    And I walk forth Hell's Mistress...or my own.

    hats
    August 6, 2006 - 11:22 am
    Scrawler, we are much alike.

    Alliemae, you always make thoughtful comments.

    Barbara, I am reading your poem now. I like what you have written about the poem. It seems serenity, a sense of peace, is very important for this person. She can deal with the outcome, bad or good, if only, for a time she can enjoy a sense of quiet to clear her head.

    I could lie serene
    And sleep, until all's won, until all's lost,
    And the door's opened and the issue shown,
    And I walk forth Hell's Mistress...or my own.

    BaBi
    August 6, 2006 - 12:42 pm
    HATS, thanks for the link to the 'jingle' shells. I have picked up many a jingle shell, or piece of one, but never knew it by that name.

    BARBARA. that sonnet is so powerful. I could hear the sounds, feel the emotions, understand the desire to sleep until it was all resolved.

    Sorrow... I lost my brother last November, but after the first shock and tears I rallied well. Even tho' we lived not too far apart, we didn't see each other all that often, each busy with our daily lives. So, I didn't notice his absence in the way his family did. But yesterday I was thinking that my daughter Valerie's birthday was coming up, and I remembered my brother's birthday was the day before hers. He never liked a fuss made on his birthday, but I would always call him on the phone and talk with him and wish him a 'Happy Birthday'. In my mind, I could hear his voice so clearly...and then the tears were back.

    Babi

    hats
    August 6, 2006 - 01:04 pm
    Babi, reading about feelings for your brothers makes my heart swell. I have often been caught unawares, unexpectedly, by a memory of my sister or parents. I had a small family. All of my family are gone accept for my husband and children and grandchildren. Thank you for sharing your memory.

    hats
    August 7, 2006 - 02:02 am
    This is only part of a poem.

    Journal


    This book, when i am dead, will be
    A little faint perfume of me.
    People who knewme well will say,
    "She really used to think that way."
    I do not write it to survive
    My mortal self, but, being alive
    And full of curious thoughts today,
    It pleases me, somehow, to say,
    "This book when I am dead will be
    A little faint perfume of me."


    These words make me want to know more about E. Millay. She, I feel, does want us to remember her, know her, as reading her words. Do we need to talk more about her life while reading her poetry?

    BaBi
    August 7, 2006 - 09:57 am
    I read this one, and I confess I find it a little scary.

    The Dream  

    Love, if I weep it will not matter, And if you laugh I shall not care; Foolish am I to think about it, But it is good to feel you there.

    Love, in my sleep I dreamed of waking, -- White and awful the moonlight reached Over the floor, and somewhere, somewhere, There was a shutter loose, -- it screeched!

    Swung in the wind, -- and no wind blowing! -- I was afraid, and turned to you, Put out my hand to you for comfort, -- And you were gone! Cold, cold as dew,

    Under my hand the moonlight lay! Love, if you laugh I shall not care, But if I weep it will not matter, -- Ah, it is good to feel you there!


    Babi

    hats
    August 7, 2006 - 10:48 am
    Babi, I think she has just experienced a nightmare. The coldness, I think, is the shadow of the moon on the bed. She is glad her husband or lover is lying there beside her. I hate nightmares!! I have experienced nightmares when the dream seemed so real. In those type of dreams it's like my husband is not beside me. I can't find him. Then, when I fully awake, I know he was there all the time. What relief!

    Alliemae
    August 7, 2006 - 12:56 pm
    Oh BaBi...first of all let me say that my heart goes out to you. I lost my brother in 1979 just before his 40th birthday...we were close in age...less than two years apart but he was my 'baby brother'.

    I think your initial feelings are so normal, especially when by your own accounts you had both been so busy with your own lives as Frankie and I had been and in my case, I was the only one to make arrangements. When we are busy and especially after a loss of one so close, I guess for our own sanity we just shut down a little bit.

    I'm not surprised either about your reaction when it was your brother's birthday...and so good you were able to cry it out. I think it takes a long time to come to grips with the loss of a sibling...there is a special family dynamic, especially when you grow up in the same home as your sibling. And the feelings will come and go...sometimes gentler and sometimes very hard. Just go with it and I'm so glad you brought this up in this safe and caring place where we are not only here to discuss poetry but to care for each other in our common humanness.

    Consider yourself hugged, BaBi...

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    August 7, 2006 - 02:56 pm
    "In New York, she lived in Greenwich Village. It was at this time that she first attained great popularity in America. She won the Pultizer Prize for Poetry in 1923, for "The Harp-Weaver, and Other Poems." Her reputation was damaged by peotry she wrote in support of the Allied war effort during World War II. Merle Rubin noted: "She seems to have caught more flak from the literary critics for supporting democracy than Ezra Pound did for championing fascism."

    "The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver" is a long poem so I'll post it over the next few days:

    "The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver"

    "Son, said my mother,
    When I was knee-high,
    "You've need of clothes to cover you,
    And not a rag have I.

    "There's nothing in the house
    To make a boy breeches,
    Nor shears to cut a cloth with
    Nor thread to take stitches.

    "There's nothing in the house
    But a loaf-end of rye,
    And a harp with a woman's head
    Nobody will buy,"
    And she began to cry.

    That was in the early fall.
    When came the late fall,
    "Son," she said, "the sight of you
    Makes your mother's blood crawl,-

    "Little skinny shoulder-blades
    Sticking through your clothes!
    And where you'll get a jacket from
    God above knows

    "It's luck for me, lad,
    Your daddy's in the ground
    And can't see the way I let
    His son go around!"
    And she made a queer sound.

    That was in the late fall.
    When the winter came,
    I'd not a pair of breeches
    Nor a shirt to my name.

    [to be continued] ~ "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    I thought it was interesting that the critics felt that her reputation was damaged because her poetry was in support of the Allied war effort during WWII. I wonder why they thought that. Here in America we tend think that support for the Allied forces was a good thing. But than again she was also known for her unconventional, bohemian lifestyle and her many love affairs with men and women.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 7, 2006 - 04:01 pm
    Using today's psych - I wonder if she was looking for the feeling of a father in all her lovers - they say you can become addicted to what you are looking for and since her Dad died or left them I am not sure which - I think died when she was only 6 years old and her mother had to find work leaving her alone to take care of a younger sister and brother it could be why there are several poems about death and why she is so introspective and maybe even why she had so many lovers - looking for love in all the wrong places as the song goes...

    hats
    August 8, 2006 - 01:51 am
    Scrawler and Barbara, thank you for the bits of her bio. It makes the poetry even more interesting.

    hats
    August 8, 2006 - 01:53 am
    Scrawler, that poem is really moving. I can't wait to read the rest of it. Thanks for posting it. "The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver." Have any of you heard the term Harp-Weaver?

    I love harps. The sound of a harp is so delicate. I love to watch the person's fingers go across the strings.

    This line in the poem "And a harp with a woman's head." That must have been one beautiful harp. Why did Edna St. Vincent Millay choose a harp? Why one with the shape of a woman' head? Is it because the mother is now the head of the home?

    Maybe the harp is like a mother. A mother, especially a widow or a single mother, must use a light touch and a firm touch with her child or children. I am thinking this harp has much to do with the characteristics of the woman in the story.

    hats
    August 8, 2006 - 03:09 am
    Barbara, the song you mentioned made me think of Marilyn Monroe. Both women seemed to have not found what they were looking for in love. How did E. Millay die? How old was E. Millay when she died?

    annafair
    August 8, 2006 - 07:46 am
    You all have been busy but before I say more if you click on biography in the heading you will find a bio of Millay's life , Which gives you an idea of what she had to contend with and also what kind of life she led.

    First I have been helping my youngest with her 10 month old baby boy, Will, Her baby sitter has been ill so Nana volunteered ,.He is a joy but you forget how active a 10 month old can be. He is into to everything, pulling himself up and scooting and crawling everywhere By the time I returned home I hate to say I just wanted to do nothing, think nothing...I was pleasently exhausted but exhausted never the less.

    I read all the posts and made notes Now if I can only decipher them ! I was very moved by Millays poems about sorrow and then moved again by everyone;s comments.Everyone seemed to capture the nuances of sorrow. and I am not sure which poem ( I cant read my writing looks like heirglyphics AUGH ) but I think it was BABI post391 where you are discussing a Millay poem where she is saying it is a lie that time will bring relief. I even wrote one similiar ..and that is the truth ..my father died 57 years ago and my mother 20 years ago and yet there are times when I would love to be thier little girl again..my husband has been gone for 12 years , the first year was not the worst ..it was the first anniversary when I realized he really wasnt going to come back I have stayed in this house where we lived together for 23 years but finally in order to survive I had to change it enough to make it "my" house .I had to do things we had never done together . I had to make New memories, memories where he did not exist when my one son questioned me I told him if I dont make new memories the old ones will destroy me Is he forgotten , no every day I think of him but if I go back to what was then I am desolate and want again to pull the covers over my head and hope to wake and find him there,. I think Millay understood that kind of grief..I love everyones comments but want to tell Hats she cuts right to the heart of each poem and finds its center..I dont do that . Barbara in your post 404 I agree with you One thing about taking care of an active 10 mon old I didnt have time to look at TV =+ they dont have closed captioning and my newspapers went unread .. this is the time I miss music .. in the past I could allow music to help me get over the things that pain me in the world. I didnt even read poetry ..I did check my email . but I just played with my dog. fixed something simple for dinner and then just go to bed. I have always known why old folks dont have babies ..WE ARE TOO OLD TO CARE FOR THEM exhausting ..was it Babi that said tears never go away./I have all sorts of little scratches here and I cant figure out what I wrote but my appreciation to all Alliemae ,. Hats, Scrawler , Babi Barbara , Marjv and to all who have posted since we started .everyone makes it worthwhile ...I think I am ready to find a poem and share it too..back later 'anna

    BaBi
    August 8, 2006 - 11:44 am
    HATS, you may be right, I hope so. My thought was that her lover was dead, and even the sense of his 'dead' presence was comforting. But I re-reading, I'm more inclined to your view.

    ALLIE, all hugs gladly received!

    SCRAWLER: "She seems to have caught more flak from the literary critics for supporting democracy than Ezra Pound did for championing fascism."

    I have often thought that literary critics feel they must hold opinions different from those of the general public, whatever those might be. After all, if the general public is capable of judgment and discernment, who needs the critics? Criticizing a poet for supporting soldiers overseas is no doubt evidence of their liberal views and superiority.

    Babi

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 8, 2006 - 01:02 pm
    Seems to me before the war the liberal view in Britain was that Hitler was doing great things for his people and they were thriving after the awful awful poverty and depravity after WWI and the requirement that Germany pay huge sums for their part in the war as the loosing side. Then like all over you are seldom vindicated so that once she was blackballed she never regained the statue she earlier enjoyed.

    Scrawler
    August 8, 2006 - 03:17 pm
    I might be repeating what someone else has already given, but:"Cora [Edna's mother] divorced Millay's father for financial irresponsibility in 1900, when Millay was about eight. Cora and her three daughters, Edna, Norma, and Kathleen, then moved to Camden, Maine." My source doesn't mention whether or not Cora re-married. So I guess Edna was raised primarily by female family members. Perhaps this had an affect on her writing career as well.

    The Harp-Weaver: (cont.)

    I couldn't go to school,
    Or out of doors to play.
    And all the other little boys
    Passed our way.

    "Son," said my mother
    "Come, climb into my lap
    And I'll chafe your little bones
    While you take a nap.

    And, oh, but we were silly
    For half an hour or more,
    Me with my long legs
    Dragging on the floor.

    A-rock-rock-rocking
    To a mother-goose rhyme!
    Oh, but we were happy
    For half an hour's time!

    But there was I, a great boy
    And what would folks say
    To hear my mother singing me
    To sleep all day,
    In such a daft way?

    Men say the winter
    Was bad that year;
    Fuel was scarce,
    And food was dear.

    A wind with a wolf's head
    Howled about our door,
    And we burned up the chairs
    And sat on the floor.

    All that was left us
    Was a chair we couldn't break,
    And the harp with a woman's head
    Nobody would take.

    (to be continued) ~"The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    At least the boy seemed to be a little happy while he sat in his mother's lap. It seems to me that they are both so far down that the only way left is up!

    hats
    August 9, 2006 - 12:24 am
    I am enjoying this one. I see there is more to come. I liked reading about the little while the child had to play on his mother's lap. With all of her worries she made time for her son. He's almost too big for his mother to hold. Mothers don't care would we hold our sons forever if we could.

    A-rock-rock-rocking
    To a mother-goose rhyme!
    Oh, but we were happy
    For half an hour's time!


    Scrawler, thank you. This is a good one.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 9, 2006 - 12:39 am
    Oh "The Harp-Weaver" is such a sad poem - I think typical of the 1930s - I remember my mom telling my sister and I these awful stories - at least we thought they were awful - of children in desperate situations who often died - there were times when my mom seemed to need for us all to be sad together. I often wonder if it was easier to feel good about our own desperate situation by telling stories of people who seemed worse off then we were.

    I've been building a garden this summer - turning practically my whole front yard into beds of various plants to cope with either the beating sun near the curb, or the half day sun near the driveway, or the shade under the cluster of Live Oak trees - so I thought I would look on the internet to see if our poet wrote any poems about gardens and lo and behold look at what I found Edna St. Vincent Millay and Steepletop

    hats
    August 9, 2006 - 01:03 am
    Barbara, I love gardens. Thanks for the link. I hope you have success with your garden. Is it a special kind of garden?

    Oh, I see you do describe your garden. That is going to be so pretty. Oh, what a very nice site. I am going to take my time reading it.

    annafair
    August 9, 2006 - 05:23 am
    Thanks for that link and may I say I am happy you have a garden I miss mine and hope another year the heat wont be so intense and I have the strength to dig and plant and watch each bloom survive.. perhaps even welcome a weed or two...

    Today's poem is sad ..as Millay was often sad.. It is sonnet V At first she sounds a bit uncaring but when you read you find it is only because she is in a public place and she is willing herself to wait to think of other things until she can weep alone.

    V

    If I should learn, in some quite casual way,
    That you were gone, not to return again --
    Read from the back-page of a paper, say,
    Held by a neighbor in a subway train,
    How at the corner of this avenue
    And such a street (so are the papers filled)
    A hurrying man -- who happened to be you --
    At noon to-day had happened to be killed,
    I should not cry aloud -- I could not cry
    Aloud, or wring my hands in such a place --
    I should but watch the station lights rush by
    With a more careful interest on my face,
    Or raise my eyes and read with greater care
    Where to store furs and how to treat the hair.

    JoanK
    August 9, 2006 - 05:31 am
    I am so far behind in reading: just read 77 posts. Thank you for the poems about mourning: they really spoke to me, mourning my husband who died in January.

    I marked these thoughts to copy:

    "People dress and go to town; I sit in my chair. All my thoughts are slow and brown"

    This is the way I feel (although Annafair always brings me out of myself). Sometimes I can't bear to deal with other people: that is why I'm so far behind. But when I do join you, you always help me.

    The poems make me realize how self-centered I have become: the whole world is about me and my grief! Enough of that!! Self-pity can get reeeeally boring!!!

    I read "Love cannot be plucked" differently from all of you. I thought she was saying that love cannot be kept. It can be experiences in the moment, but you can't take anything away from it. I disagree completely: I will always carry the people who have loved me and gone in my heart. But it sounds as if she feels that everyone who loved her then betrayed/abandoned her. Perhaps because of that she feels she must leave them before they leave her.

    Being an insomniac, I read the Midnight Candle as a plea for sleep, and a deeper plea for peace.

    JoanK
    August 9, 2006 - 05:40 am
    I join those who are deeply disturbed by the Middle East. I find myself compulsively watching one news program after another. I lived in Israel for some years, and love it: but that does not mean I love everything their government does, any more that I love everything the US government does! When people are afraid, they can lose their sense of humanity! My heart bleeds for all the people of Lebanon, Israel, and Iraq, most of whom just want what everyone wants: to live their life in peace, be able to work and love and see their family grow up around them.

    hats
    August 9, 2006 - 06:04 am
    Hi JoanK, I am glad to see you here. Believe it or not you and I had the same thoughts about "Love Cannot Be Plucked." If you have time or up to it read my short post #387.

    I would also like to say you are not "self centered." You are only grieving for someone you loved very much. Don't give yourself any negative names. You are in the process of mourning.

    annafair
    August 9, 2006 - 06:24 am
    I am so glad to see you here and totally agree with Hats ..where you are I was once and self centered you are not..the loss of a beloved person cuts deep but only because it was so special..I wish I could tell you time will help but in some ways that would be a lie What I can say is you will look back and realize how blessed you were ..to have had this person in your life...and that will give you a special kind of joy ..love you anna

    hats
    August 9, 2006 - 06:34 am
    Good morning,Anna, the poem you posted this morning touches me too. I feel the pain in the poem. The pain is so deep for the woman she simply goes into paralyzing shock. Like you said Anna she is trying hard to hold her tears until she reaches a private place.

    hats
    August 9, 2006 - 08:07 am
    Into my heart's treasury
    I slipped a coin
    That time cannot take
    Nor a thief purloin--
    Oh better than the minting
    Of a gold-crowned king
    Is the safe kept memory
    Of a lovely thing.


    Our memories are precious.

    MarjV
    August 9, 2006 - 09:31 am
    Someone asked how she died.

    In 1944 Millay suffered a nervous breakdown and was unable to write for two years. During this time and later, her husband catered to her so selflessly that he depleted his own reserves of strength and died in 1949 of lung cancer followed by surgery and a stroke. Millay's marriage with Boissevain was an open one, with both taking other lovers. Millay's most significant other relationship during this time was with the poet George Dillon, fourteen years her junior, for whom a number of her sonnets were written. Millay also collaborated with Dillon on Flowers of Evil, a translation of Charles Baudelaire's Les Fleurs du mal.

    Boissevain died in 1949 of lung cancer. Millay was found dead at the bottom of the stairs in her house on October 19, 1950, having apparently broken her neck in a fall.[1]

    MarjV
    August 9, 2006 - 09:39 am
    I like the Harp Weaver "story". Rather sad but good.

    We need to remember that Edna lived a varied life - and had affairs with both men and women. I suppose we could call it a racy life. As I gather from the different bios I've read much of that way of life is explored as she tries to figure out who is Edna.

    Scrawler
    August 9, 2006 - 10:00 am
    All that was left us
    Was a chair we couldn't break
    And the harp with a woman's head
    Nobody would take,
    For song or pity's sake.

    The night before Christmas
    I cried with the cold
    I cried myself to sleep
    Like a two-year-old.

    And in the deep night
    I felt my mother rise,
    And stare down upon me
    With love, in her eyes

    I saw my mother sitting
    On the one good chair,
    A light falling on her
    From I couldn't tell where,

    Looking nineteen,
    And not a day older,
    And the harp with a woman's head
    Leaned against her shoulder

    Her thin fingers, moving
    In the thin, tall strings,
    Were weav-weav-weaving
    Wonderful things.

    Many bright threads
    From where I couldn't see,
    Were running through the harp-strings
    Rapidly,

    And gold threads whisling
    Through my mother's hand.
    I saw the web grow,
    And the pattern expand.

    "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    The mention of Christmas Eve reminded me of when our house burnt to the ground a week before Christmas in 1972. All we had were the clothes on our backs. My children were two and three and it was very hard for me to try to explain to them why Santa Claus might not come. We had also lost all the Christmas presents as well, but what sticks in my mind about this experience was the way my neighbors responded to our plight. All my neighbors from miles around got together and had a big party for us. They brought clothes, and just about everything we would need to start new and even toys for the kids. My insurance man was there and because I worked for him, he had gone out of his way to get a check and gave it to us that night. In addition my realtor found us a nice condo. I've never forgotten that experience. It really brought home to me the true meaning of Christmas.

    hats
    August 9, 2006 - 11:39 am
    Marjv, thank you for that part of the biography. I wondered how her life ended.

    I can catch the strumming of the strings in these lines.

    Were weav-weav-weaving
    Wonderful things.

    MarjV
    August 9, 2006 - 12:12 pm
    These lines are exquisite from the poem above -

    Many bright threads
    From where I couldn't see,
    Were running through the harp-strings
    Rapidly,

    I found this following poem - seems like she is exploring what
    she thinks about Christian beliefs:
    JESUS TO HIS DISCIPLES

    E Millay/Mine the Harvest c.1941 I have instructed you to follow me
    What way I go;
    The road is hard, and stony, - as I know;
    Uphill it climbs, and from the crushing heat
    No shelter will be found
    Save in my shadow: wherefore follow me; the footprints
    of my feet<br. Will be distinct and clear;
    However trod on, they will not disappear

    And see ye not at last
    How tall I am? - Even at noon I cast
    A shadow like a forest far behind me on the ground.

    E Millay/Mine the Harvest c.1941

    hats
    August 9, 2006 - 12:33 pm
    MarjV, that is a beautiful and comforting poem. It makes sense that the "bright threads" are thoughts such are in the other poem you posted. It all seems to fit together perfectly. Thank you.

    hats
    August 10, 2006 - 02:01 am
    I am still thinking about the Harp Weaver. A small family living with huge worries and so much love. The "Bright threads" keep running through my mind. For me, the bright threads have become the mother and son's hair intertwined together throughout the strings of the harp. The bright threads of their hair symbolizing forever love. I have heard after death hair keeps growing. If this is so, there love is forever lasting.

    hats
    August 10, 2006 - 04:52 am
    Forever over now, forever, forever gone
    That day. Clear and diminished like a scene
    Carven in cameo, the lighthouse, and the cove between
    The sandy cliffs, and the boat drawn up on the beach;
    And the long skirt of a lady innocent and young,
    Her hand resting on her bosom, her head hung;
    And the figure of a man in earnest speech.


    Clear and diminished like a scene cut in cameo
    The light house, and the boat on the beach, and the two shapes
    Of the woman and the man; lost like the lost day
    Are the words that passed, and the pain,--discarded, cut away
    From the stone, as from the memory the heat of the tears escapes.


    O troubled forms, O early love unfortunate and hard,
    Time has estranged you into a jewel cold and pure;
    From the action of the waves and from the action of sorrow for-
    ever secure,
    White against a ruddy cliff you stand, chalcedony on sard.


    I think this is about the people held forever still in a cameo. The woman receives sad news about a loved one lost at sea. The hardness of the gems freezes time and also freezes pain.

    hats
    August 10, 2006 - 05:21 am
    I think E. Millay is looking at the lady in the cameo, cut away from her pain and memories of that day, as negative, not a good thing. I am not sure.

    MarjV
    August 10, 2006 - 06:06 am
    This was in my daily poetry mailing today. In view of world events you may want to read and listen.

    http://www.panhala.net/Chimes_of_Freedom.html

    MarjV
    August 10, 2006 - 06:10 am
    I am inclined to think the "Cameo" is showing a relationship being cut away between the two in the scene. The rock hardneses of loss.

    hats
    August 10, 2006 - 06:13 am
    MarjV, thanks. That does make sense. That one confused me. I had to post it. I love cameos.

    hats
    August 10, 2006 - 06:23 am
    MarjV this is the perfect time to share this poem. Thank you.

    annafair
    August 10, 2006 - 07:50 am
    your posts before I choose a poem to share ..All of the posts and poems shared this morning as well as the Dylan lyrics seem sadly appropiate to what's going on in the world.I find it hard to watch the news are read a paper...

    The Harp-weaver always made me feel sad..in fact this mornings poems are all sad which suits the times right now...How do we survive a world going mad?

    That Millay led a life of what we can call questionable conduct I really see no joy in her poetry of that life. What we do when we are young makes a difference when we are aged. I think she is weighed down as she ages with a certain amount of regret..

    The poem about Jesus and His disciples makes me feel she is hoping that forgiveness is there ..And Scrawler your story of the Christmas fire really makes one feel that in spite of all the bad things we are drowned in each day there are many good people in the world whose goodness is overlooked by a world that only wants to share the worst of us ...not the best.. perhaps if we heard more about the good people we would see less of the bad..

    Will return later with a poem Wherever you are I hope you will find something good to cheer you ..always , anna

    MarjV
    August 10, 2006 - 09:29 am
    Will return later with a poem Wherever you are I hope you will find something good to cheer you ..always , anna

    Thanks, Anna. I always find a joy in something daily. A good thought to offer blessings and prayers of hope.

    BaBi
    August 10, 2006 - 11:32 am
    Well, I wanted to find a more cheerful poem to lighten the mood, but every poem I clicked on refused to come up. Undoubtedly moody and depressed.

    Babi

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 10, 2006 - 12:27 pm
    Yup her poems sound either desperate or filled with sorrow and loss - here is the closest I could find without the usual sound of a dirge...

    Autumn Daybreak

    Cold wind of autumn, blowing loud
    at dawn, a fortnight overdue,
    jostling the doors, and tearing through
    my bedroom to rejoin the cloud,
    I know -- for I can hear the hiss
    and scrape of leaves along the floor --
    How may boughs, lashed bare by this,
    will rake the cluttered sky once more.
    Tardy, and somewhat south of east,
    the sun will rise at length, made known
    more by the meagre light increased
    than by a disk in splendour shown;
    when, having but to turn my head,
    through the stripped maple I shall see,
    bleak and remembered, patched with red,
    the hill all summer hid from me.

    I like the description of the Autumn sunrise as south of east with a meagre light - and then the idea that the clearing of leaves allows you to see a hill that was hidden from view during summer. I remember the first little house my daughter lived in while waiting for their house to be built in Saluda - It had a wonderful side screened porch that during my fall visit we practically lived out there mezurmized by the fall colors and crackle in the air - we had all these plans and each morning with coffee in hand the day would go as we were so content sitting and chatting on that porch. And sure enough at the end of my two week visit nearly all the leaves fell during a rain storm and there were the Blue Ridge mountains in the distance and other mountains close by - never could do justice to writing a poem about that magical autumn on the screened in porch.

    hats
    August 10, 2006 - 12:30 pm
    It is hard to find ones in a happy mood. I will try to find one tomorrow or this week.

    annafair
    August 10, 2006 - 01:06 pm
    but right now I waiting to hear how my dear sister in law, my husband's only sibling ..has passed away..She has been ill and in a wheel chair for a number of years and is now in a hospital where all the doctors can do is keep her comfortable Thankfully she also has Alzheimers so according to my brother in law she is not truly cognizant of where she is, Barbara she is the lady in the wheel chair in the picture you used for your CM program I have written a poem and perhaps I will share it later..They are both in thier mid 80's and live to far for me to go..so here is the poem I am sharing today..appropiate for the day and my feelings already of loss...anna

    When the Year Grows Old


    I cannot but remember
    When the year grows old --
    October -- November --
    How she disliked the cold!


    She used to watch the swallows
    Go down across the sky,
    And turn from the window
    With a little sharp sigh.


    And often when the brown leaves
    Were brittle on the ground,
    And the wind in the chimney
    Made a melancholy sound,


    She had a look about her
    That I wish I could forget --
    The look of a scared thing
    Sitting in a net!


    Oh, beautiful at nightfall
    The soft spitting snow!
    And beautiful the bare boughs
    Rubbing to and fro!


    But the roaring of the fire,
    And the warmth of fur,
    And the boiling of the kettle
    Were beautiful to her!


    I cannot but remember
    When the year grows old --
    October -- November --
    How she disliked the cold!


    Edna St Vincent Millay

    hats
    August 10, 2006 - 01:57 pm
    Anna and Barbara I like both poems. I will read each one again tonight.

    Anna I am sorry to hear about your sister-in-law. I hope the doctors and nurses can keep her as comfortable as possible.

    Scrawler
    August 10, 2006 - 02:37 pm
    She wove a child's jacket
    And when it was done
    She laid it on the floor
    And wove another one.

    She wove a red cloak
    So regal to see,
    "She's made it for a king's son,"
    I said, "and not for me."
    But I knew it was for me.

    She wove a pair of breeches
    Quicker than that!
    She wove a pair of boots
    And a little cocked hat.

    She wove a pair of mittens,
    She wove a little blouse,
    She wove all night
    In the still, cold house

    She san as she worked,
    Her voice never faltered,
    And the thread never broke.
    And when I awoke,-

    There sat my mother
    With the harp against her shoulder
    Looking nineteen
    And not a day older.

    A smile about her lips,
    And a light about her head,
    And her hands in the harp-strings
    Frozen dead.

    And piled up besider her
    And toppling to the skies,
    Were the clothes of a king's son,
    Just my size.

    The End

    Yes, this is a sad tale. But I also see this also as a spiritual journey. "A spiritual journey almost inevitable begins with a decision to renounce a certain way of life. But that decision is less about changing your environment or letting go of people and things than it is about transforming your inner being - learning the inner meaning of letting go and letting be in order to find wise naturalness and authentic simplicity." ~ Lama Surya Das

    The pile of clothes at the end of the story is the mother's gift to her son. But they both went on a spiritual journey. One in which the son was forced by circumstances to let go of his mother, but in the end discovers his inner being and realizes the meaning of letting go.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 10, 2006 - 02:56 pm
    ahhh Anna - I am sorry - however I know you will be there with just the right words for those in the family who will need comforting.

    The heat made me so tired today - all I want to do is nap - I will never sleep tonight - I should go for a swim but the effort of driving to a place to swim is more than I am motivated to do... - with all I had to do today I feel unsettled about even sitting down with a book - maybe if I can get one thing done on the list I will feel I have accomplished something today...

    annafair
    August 11, 2006 - 05:54 am
    I understand how the terrible heat of this summer has just flattened me...it has been tempered here and last night with two windows open about 3 am I had to add a light cover for I felt a chill,Perhaps autumen will arrive on time this year...Here is the poem I searched and searched for to find one that I could share today ..a detailed read of Millay's poems weighs heavy ..and convinces me once again for all of her successes , for all of her life style true happiness was never really hers. I think she picked up from her mother a disdain for men and yet she missed that absent father and perhaps idealized his charms

    Today's poem I chose because I could relate to the City Trees as they were the first I knew.and yes in quiet times there sound was the same as those on the farms of my absent relatives.anna

    City Trees


    The trees along this city street,
    Save for the traffic and the trains,
    Would make a sound as thin and sweet
    As trees in country lanes.


    And people standing in their shade
    Out of a shower, undoubtedly
    Would hear such music as is made
    Upon a country tree.


    Oh, little leaves that are so dumb
    Against the shrieking city air,
    I watch you when the wind has come,—
    I know what sound is there.


    Edna St. Vincent Millay

    hats
    August 11, 2006 - 06:11 am
    Anna I enjoyed this poem. I love the last two lines.

    I watch you when the wind has come,—
    I know what sound is there.

    MarjV
    August 11, 2006 - 09:47 am
    And people standing in their shade
    Out of a shower, undoubtedly)
    Would hear such music as is made
    Upon a country tree.


    Just think how the drops would sound !---OR, If you just stop on any day when there is a breeze/wind you can hear the special different sounds of each tree.

    I figured the Harp Weaver would end in that manner. A wonderful poem I thought. Sad is part of our life ; it bothers me not to read poems that are.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 11, 2006 - 10:29 am
    Yes, I agree there is a sadness to her poems but I also note dispair - I wonder would she be part of the 'Lost Generation'?

    Scrawler
    August 11, 2006 - 11:59 am
    Barbara I think Millay was part of what they called the "Lost Generation." Wasn't Stein and Hemingway also a part of the Lost Generation?

    Prayer to Persephone

    Be to her, Persphone,
    All the things I might not be;
    Take her head upon your knee.
    She that was so proud and wild,
    Flippant, arrogant and free.
    She that had no need of me,
    Is a little lonely child
    Lost in Hell, - Persphone,
    Take her head upon your knee;
    Say to her, "My dear, my dear,
    It is not so dreadful here." ~ "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    This is a sort of interesting little poem. Mythology: "Demeter had an only daughter, Persephone, the maiden of the spring. She lost her and in her terrible grief she withheld her gifts from the earth, which turned into a frozen deseret. The green and flowering land was icebound and lifeless because Persphone had disappered. The lord of the dark underworld, the king of the multitudinous dead, carried her off when, enticed by the wonderous bloom of the narcissus, she strayed to far from her companions.

    In the stories of both goddesses, Demeter and Persephone, the idea of sorrow was foremost. Demeter, goddess of the harvest wealth was still more the divine sorrowing mother who saw her daughter die each year. Persphone was the radient maiden of the spring and the summertime, whose light step upon the dry, brown hillside was enough to make it fresh and blooming.

    But all the while Persephone knew how brief that beauty was; fruits, flowers, leaves, all the fair growth of earth, must end with the coming of the cold and pass like hersef into the power of death. After the lord of the dark world below carried her away she was never again the gay young creature who had played in the flower meadow without a thought of care or trouble. She did indeed rise from the dead every spring, but she brought with her the memory of where she had come from; with all her bright beauty there was something strange and awesome about her." ~ "Mythology" ~ Edith Hamilton

    This is yet another poem about sorrow. I can't help but wonder if Millay thought of herself as the "dying spring" or perhaps she is remembering a lost lover.

    hats
    August 11, 2006 - 02:32 pm
    It is a beautiful poem. Thank you for the story of Persephone's name.

    Alliemae
    August 11, 2006 - 04:13 pm
    The Harp Weaver reminded me in some way of Hans Christian Anderson's "The Little Match Girl" Sad--yes, but somehow something spiritual also.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    August 11, 2006 - 04:24 pm
    That's it. I was wondering why the story is so familiar in the Harp WEaver. I knew it was from something. Thanks, Anna.

    Is Millay asking the prayer for herself in the Persephone poem? Or for another. I think for herself.

    annafair
    August 12, 2006 - 05:47 am
    This poem by Millay made me smile..As someone who has had a small garden over the years ( alas no more) who ranted and raved at unpredictable weather and squirells and rabbits who ate my harvest as well as beetles who did the same I can see Millay's point of view here..What do you think? of course her poetry is always a small puzzle and I wonder since she says this eclipse will last all her days could it refer to depression or the loss of someone she loved? anna

    An Eclipse of the Sun Is Predicted
    Edna St. Vincent Millay


    I never was one to go to war against the weather, against the bad conditions
    Prevailing, though prevailing for a long time, the sullen spring,
    The ugly summer grey and cold;
    ``Summer will bud''; I said; ``Autumn do the blossomings;
    Winter curtail a year without fruitions;
    I, starving a little, await the new bounty as of old.''
    I have gone to war, I am at war, I am at grips
    With that which threatens more than a cold summer;
    I am at war with the shadow, at war with the sun's eclipse,
    Total, and not for a minute, but for all my days.
    Under that established twilight how could I raise
    Beans and corn? I am at war with the black newcomer.

    MarjV
    August 12, 2006 - 06:28 am
    With an eclipse or shadow we don't see things as clearly. Perhaps she is writing about a time like that in her persona. The narrator is definitely awaiting something as with hope: "await the new bounty as of old"....seems to know this has happened before and will abate.

    And going to war means to me that she is not doing a "woe is me" but being proactive.

    ~marj

    annafair
    August 12, 2006 - 07:12 am
    Good thinking thanks for your take on this poem ..as I said her poems are often a small puzzle and while I never thought of it as being proactive which it is I did feel it was more positive than some of her poems we have read! Early mornings are not my best time ..I am a night person...I like to say I am a moonflower..have a great day..anna

    MarjV
    August 12, 2006 - 09:13 am
    I just read an odd poem by Millay in Mine the Harvest. It is poem 4 in Part 1. It's quite long so I didn't post it in parts because it needs to be read as a whole.

    She is describing a listening experience and the joy of the thrush song and all of a sudden the narrator decides the "over-tone" and "under-tone" are not to her liking and asks the thrush to go away awhile to where she can't follow the notes. And then:

    "But return soon.

    Not so soon though,
    Quite, perhaps
    As tomorrow."

    - - - -

    And that was the end of the poem. There she was experiencing happy moments and then couldn't bear them!

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 12, 2006 - 09:43 am
    hmmm I get out of the first stave a comment on the seasons as if they were seasons of our mental and emotional well being - and Winter is described sorta like the Winter of our discontent - it is the Winter of our soul with the promise that as bad as it gets there will always be a Spring.

    And then in the second stave she uses the first as a springboard to tell us she is at war with "what threatens a cold summer" - so this is a deeper disconnect since in the above she said that "Autumn do the blossomings" from the Summer buds - but this deeper disconnect is not even promising any buds - she says -
    "Under that established twilight how could I raise
    Beans and corn?"

    And so the shadow - the eclipse of her sun is more pervasive then a "sullen spring" or a "summer grey and cold."

    Now the confusing phrase to me is the last - who or what is the newcomer - unless this all consuming darkness is new for her.

    I am thinking more and more we are reading the poetry of a women who experienced depression before it was recognized as a disease and before there were any meds to soften the affects.

    annafair
    August 12, 2006 - 10:00 am
    Thanks for your input Barbara ...I loved her poetry when I was young and do so now but then I didnt see the sorrow and sadness behind it..perhaps young people all feel a bit of sorrow and sadness ..we are now grown and while the world is waiting and we are anxious to enter it I can also recall there was a hesitancy ..leaving behind the familiar so her poetry at that age would seem to be just right I am viewing it a bit differently now...

    I am ready for autumn and just emailed a copy of a poem I wrote some years ago ..and decided to share it with you .YOU ARE FREE TO INTERPRET IT AS WELL anna

    Elegy for Fall in Three Parts
    PART I
    Autumn pushed summer rudely aside
    Arriving on wind and cloud tides.
    Dingy flocks of sheep scudded cross the sky
    Shepherded by West Wind who tried
    To keep them huddled in one spot.
    Always some who would not
    Cooperate. Wandered off alone
    Made it hard to drive them home
    When nightfall came .
    PartII
    Leaves in crinkled taffeta dresses
    Hurried to leave their old lovers,
    Thinking they would find new
    To replace the graying trees who
    No longer gave them youth.
    Soubrettes they laughingly said good-bye
    Made saucy arabesques across the lawn
    Skipping down the street, dancing
    Through night until the dawn.
    Poor things it is good they do not know
    No lover waits for them
    But death beneath the snow.
    PartIII
    The trees hate to see them go
    Still, they look forward to another fling
    When tight budded maidens in the spring
    Arrive to caress their gnarled limbs,
    Bedeck them in leafy greens,
    Place garlands on their bare boughs .
    And they renew their lovers pledge,
    To the new maidens, make a vow
    They do not intend to keep.
    Those roués will use them to make shady glens
    Against summers onslaught
    Shake them loose as they have for years
    When Autumn comes again.


    anna alexander 10/8/96

    Scrawler
    August 12, 2006 - 11:06 am
    She is neither pink nor pale,
    And she never will be all mine
    She learned her hands in a fairy-tale
    And her mouth on a valentine.

    She has more hair than she needs
    In the sun 'tis a woe to me!
    And her voice is a string of colored beads,
    Or steps leading into the sea.

    She loves me all that she can,
    And her ways to my ways resign;
    But she was not made for any man,
    And she never will be all mine.

    ~"American Poetry" (Volume One)

    I would have to agree that Millay was probably more than mildly despressed when she wrote. This poem seems to be talking about a lover, perhaps a woman, who she wants to keep all to herself. I think somewhere we discussed that she seems to be selfish in many ways. This poem certainly, at least to me, illustrates this.

    I love your poem Anna. Yesterday here in Oregon it was 50 degrees and now today we are back up into the 80s and tomorrow they predict 90+. At this rate I almost wish for cooler days and summer to be over and done and stop bouncing back and forth. But I do love the warmth of the sun and will miss it when its gone.

    hats
    August 12, 2006 - 11:10 am
    Anna what a beautiful poem. I love it especially since fall is my favorite season. These are my favorite lines.

    The trees hate to see them go
    Still, they look forward to another fling
    When tight budded maidens in the spring
    Arrive to caress their gnarled limbs,
    Bedeck them in leafy greens,
    Place garlands on their bare boughs .

    Scrawler
    August 13, 2006 - 10:50 am
    The following poem had no title:

    If I should learn, in some quite casual way,
    That you were gone, not to return again-
    Read from the back-page of a paper, say
    Held by a neighbor in a subway train
    How at the corner of this avenue
    And such a street (so are the papers filled)
    A hurrying man - who happened to be you -
    At noon to-day had happened to be killed,
    I should not cry aloud - I could not cry
    Aloud, or wring my hands in such a place -
    I should but watch the station lights rush by
    With a more careful interest on my face,
    Or raise my eyes and read with greater care
    Where to store furs and how to treat the hair.

    ~ "American Poetry" Edna St. Vincent Millay

    How sad this poem is. But I understand the fact that there are those of us who find it difficult to express our inner most feelings. I'm like that. I find it alot easier to express myself in words in writing than in expressing them in speaking. I would hope though that I could at less think about the man that had been killed, even though I found it difficult to express in words, rather than thinking about storing furs or how to treat my hair.

    MarjV
    August 13, 2006 - 02:53 pm
    It's interesting how post #469 sounds like a stream of conscious bit of writing.

    Anna - your poem of Autumn was great fun to read.

    Witch-Wife is certainly an unusual poem with it's vivid descriptions. I liked this- "And her voice is a string of colored beads, Or steps leading into the sea" --- It's total sounds like a love ode to one of her female lovers.

    Mallylee
    August 13, 2006 - 03:13 pm
    Thank you all for the poetry.I began to read the posts here only in the past few days. I felt each poem has been a companion to me.Some are more difficult than others. Annafair I think I will always think of rustling taffeta when I encounter dry autumn leaves!

    I love all the Milley poems which are entirely new to me.I wish I could have given the seasons one to a dear friend now dead who had depression. It would have been a consolation for him to know that this poet understood so well what it felt like

    BaBi
    August 13, 2006 - 03:49 pm
    ANNA, I love this line; what an inspired description of autumn leaves>

    Leaves in crinkled taffeta dresses Hurried to leave their old lovers,

    I also feel strongly that the 'dark shadow' Millay is fighting is depression. The sense of depression seeps through so much of her poetry. The writing of poetry in itself may well be her fight against it. So often, people in deep depression are unable to rouse themselves to any effort.

    Babi

    MarjV
    August 13, 2006 - 04:54 pm
    And BABi- back when she lived, if you think about it, there was such a stigma to depression. Perhaps that is why she lived such a racy life in her urge to combat how she was emotionally. A gifted woman for the world.

    Mallylee - welcome to our discussions.

    Alliemae
    August 13, 2006 - 05:33 pm
    Yes, Scrawler, BaBi and Marj, et al, I agree...as I mentioned way back in my post #403, "I have wondered if possibly Millay suffered from clinical depression or maybe even bipolarity." "that the 'dark shadow' Millay is fighting is depression. (BaBi) along with Perhaps that is why she lived such a racy life in her urge to combat how she was emotionally.(MarjV) it seems to be adding up.

    I wonder how she must have suffered and how people thought of her since there was no widespread knowledge of these diseases. I do think that before the knowledge folks may have attributed these types of things to eccentricities and/or 'artistic genius' maybe...

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 13, 2006 - 05:52 pm
    "But she was not made for any man,
    And she never will be all mine.



    I had an 'inkling' that perhaps Millay wrote this about a man she maybe cared for but just couldn't belong to completely and how she imagined or thought he was feeling about her and about their relationship. (just an idea...)

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 13, 2006 - 06:02 pm
    "I should not cry aloud - I could not cry
    Aloud, or wring my hands in such a place -
    I should but watch the station lights rush by
    With a more careful interest on my face,"

    I think it was the last line above that impacted me...it really choked me up. Someone (seemingly an important someone) from whom she may not have heard from in a while and she learns about his death on the train or subway, I forget now, and from reading another's newspaper--my goodness what a shock. And people in those times I think were less outwardly expressive that we may be today, especially in public and especially on public conveyances. I could feel the tension as she tried to control herself and put that 'careful interest' on her face. What a dreadful way to hear about a death of someone you know. I found it really sad.

    Alliemae

    annafair
    August 13, 2006 - 09:33 pm
    And hope you will be a regular here too...I think because we now know what can cause depression ( lack of certain chemicals which do diminish as we age) and thankfully for medicine that can help we can see Millay's poems would indicate she suffered from depression. I suspect it troubled her a great deal ..and something she kept to herself perhaps as she feared what was happening to her. I think we can understand that ..even when we have sad days because we have lived long enough to suffer the loss of family and friends it is hard to deal with it ..in most cases our depression is short lived but her poems tell us this was an ongoing thing.

    Her successes could not quite compensate , somehow I feel this was a woman who did like being alone...so she found comfort in her affairs and as she aged perhaps they were not as easy to find..the poem just shared without a name was really sonnet V and it moved me to say Today's poem is sad ..as Millay was often sad.. It is sonnet V "At first she sounds a bit uncaring but when you read you find it is only because she is in a public place and she is willing herself to wait to think of other things until she can weep alone."

    Choking back tears while in a public place is what most of us do. I am remembering being in a hospital in Germany recovering from a ruptured tubal pregnancy . This was a military hospital and there were no private rooms It was a huge room with perhaps 15 beds are more.It did have a lovely view out of a wall of windows overlooking a green lawn and lovely trees. It was a woman's ward and one lady there from a foreign country ( I keep thinking it was Italy ) was expecting a baby and she was so dramatic..One of the nurses explained it was expected of her to weep and moan and make what we would call a scene...Remembering that I have often thought perhaps we are too stoic...too brave...I was acutely disappointed and just plain ill from my surgery but never complained.. later when I was back in our housing and alone I wept buckets of tears ..It was such an acute disappointment it was 6 mos or more before I return to a normal ( proper) attitude. If I had followed the lady from "Italy" and carried on when it happened perhaps I would have healed faster. So it reading that poem and knowing she most likely wrote from her own expierence that she was devasted by reading that bit of news and yet held it in ..maybe we would all be healthier if "we just let it all hang out" just thinking ..anna

    ZinniaSoCA
    August 14, 2006 - 09:01 am
    I'm probably out of order with this, but I just have to share it. It's one of many poems by a friend of mine. She wrote this for an elderly woman, Isobel, who was her patient.

    The Old Mistress of Tinnenburra ©2005 Jennifer Henry

    The old Mistress of Tinnenburra, out Cunnamulla way,
    Was one personage of value, I met along the way.
    The tales of old she told me, from outback, Queensland West,
    Were full of country ancedotes, that rank among the best.
    She was a city girl, when she met her farming bloke,
    Just upstakes and went with him, to a station so remote.
    He'd set the homestead fair to rights to greet his blushing bride,
    She never did get used to all the dust that came inside.
    Like all station people, she learnt to shop in bulk,
    The stores reached to the ceiling, she was always known to cope.
    At forty years, she had a child, a boy, her first real joy,
    Hubby was so proud of him, he never lacked for toys.
    She told me tales of Linsay's life, his boyhood, wild and free,
    Scared silly of the black men, in the shearers' shed at three.
    Of how he'd snagged up on a fence, caught fast in the barbed wire,
    Mr. Drunk had rescued him, untangled the young squire.
    Isobel had many hats, and used to love to shop,
    Her hubby spoilt her and, she said, she shopped until she dropped.
    She told me of the dreadful day when Linsay, all grown up,
    Was sent to Brisbane, off to school, and there he had to stop.
    There he stood with his suitcase, all alone and scared,
    His father cried when he left him, they had no choice, she said.
    That's how things were done back then, to give the kids a chance.
    To get an education, but how Lindsay missed the Ranch.
    She told of floods and terrible storms, how lightning killed her friend,
    At the tender age of ten years old, by her side she dropped down dead.
    She sits now at her window, in Camp Hill she sighs and dreams,
    Of her mates out Cunnamulla way, and how her life had been.
    At eighty plus years now, she has her little treats
    I remember Lindsay at New Year, sharing our crab meat,
    She washed it down with vintage wine, while remembering old New years,
    With Tinnenburra daydreams, she blinked away the tears.
    If you watch the weather map. on TV news next week
    You'll not see Tinnenburra's temps, it's too far out to reach.
    They just say elsewhere, that's out west, where Tinnenburra lies
    Out beyond the black stump, under clear blue skies.

    ZinniaSoCA
    August 14, 2006 - 09:31 am
    I think you're right about "letting it all hang out." I think the "holding it in" and being stoic is what causes so many people to turn to substances to relieve the pain, grief, frustration, etc.—cigarettes, booze, prescription drugs, street drugs. That's not to say that people need to vent on others or even make public scenes, but it's possible to weep and wail and gnash in private and that's how I was finally able to quit smoking.

    Writing poetry is another outlet in my case and a lot of my "stuff" comes pouring out in poems, perhaps because it seems like a more acceptable form of "letting it out."

    JoanK
    August 14, 2006 - 09:33 am
    Zinnia: I'm glad you shared that poem. How vividly it expresses a life!!

    I, too, was touched by :

    "I should not cry aloud - I could not cry Aloud, or wring my hands in such a place - I should but watch the station lights rush by With a more careful interest on my face,"

    To me, that is an accurate description of how we react to sudden shocks. They say everyone can remember exactly where they were when they heard that Kennedy had been shot (I know I can -- all these years later, I can visualize the scene). Something anesthetizes our feelings, but burns all of the minor details into our brains.

    annafair
    August 14, 2006 - 12:23 pm
    It is good to see you here and this is a place for poetry and all is welcome regardless of the "poet" of the month Thanks for the poem you shared ...Isobel sounds like an old lady we would all like to know so thanks to Jennifer for making it so....I havent had to overcome smoking but grief has been mine to know AND who hasnt but I did find out I needed to vent that grief and poetry became my way to do so....or standing in a shower telling GOD you know I am angry with you...and Joan I too remember My husband and I were Christmas shopping and was trying to purchase a gift and the salesclerk was in tears and could hardly handle the purchase when we asked she said Havent you heard President Kennedy was shot in Dallas? we were so stunned and left the store and went home where we stayed glued to the tv set for what seemed weeks..and wept as well. LOL Now I am recalling our young son who often has tantrums, laying on the floor and weeping, beating the floor with his hands and feet. I would just tell him If you feel like doing that you will have to do it alone I am going in the other room BUT one day I too felt like having a tantrum at the same time he did and lay down next to him and pounded the floor with my fists, kicked the floor and wailed ..and you know what I said when we both had finished YOU ARE RIGHT ART IT REALLY HELPS and it did..so maybe the next time I am feeling sad I will do that again!

    Well as we all the know the news is enough to have a tantrum and here are 3 poems MIllay wrote about the world..anna the last line says it all for me ..

    Three Sonnets in Tetrameter
    Edna St. Vincent Millay
    I
    See how these masses mill and swarm
    And troop and muster and assail
    God! --- We could keep this planet warm
    By friction, if the sun should fail.
    Mercury, Saturn, Venus, Mars:
    If no prow cuts your arid seas,
    Then in your weightless air no wars
    Explode with such catastrophes
    As rock our planet all but loose
    From its frayed mooring to the sun.
    Law will not sanction such abuse
    Forever; when the mischief's done,
    Planets, rejoice, on which at night
    Rains but the twelve-ton meteorite.
    II
    His stalk the dark delphinium
    Unthorned into the tending hand
    Releases . . . yet that hour will come .
    . . And must, in such a spiny land.
    The sikly, powdery mignonette
    Before these gathering dews are gone
    May pierce me --- does the rose regret
    The day she did her armour on?
    In that the foul supplants the fair,
    The coarse defeats the twice-refined,
    Is food for thought, but not despair:
    All will be easier when the mind
    To meet the brutal age has grown
    An iron cortex of its own.
    III
    No further from me than my hand
    Is China that I loved so well;
    Love does not help to understand
    The logic of the bursting shell.
    Perfect in dream above me yet
    Shines the white cone of Fuji-San;
    I wake in fear, and weep and sweat. .
    . Weep for Yoshida, for Japan.
    Logic alone, all love laid by,
    Must calm this crazed and plunging star:
    Sorrowful news for such as I,
    Who hoped --- with men just as they are,
    Sinful and loving --- to secure
    A human peace that might endure.

    Alliemae
    August 14, 2006 - 02:21 pm
    Zinnia...how I enjoyed the poem by your friend Jennifer! And I can't help feeling that so would our poet of last month, Australia's Henry Lawson...

    Welcome to the group from this newcomer...it's good to meet you!

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    August 14, 2006 - 03:02 pm
    This door you might not open, and you did;
    So enter now, and see for what slight thing
    You are betrayed... Here is no treasure hid,
    No cauldron, no clear crystal mirroring
    The sought-for truth, no heads of women slain
    For greed like yours, no writhings of distress,
    But only what you see... Look yet again-
    An empty room, cobwebbed and comfortless.
    Yet this alone out of my life I kept
    Unto myself lest any know me quite;
    And you did so profane me when you crept
    Unto the threshold of his room to-night
    That I must never more behold your face
    This now is yours. I seek another place.

    ~ "American Poetry" ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay

    This is an interesting poem. I vaguely recall the legend of Bluebeard's wife looking for treasure in their closet and when she found done was killed by Bluebeard. But this poem seems to be referring to something in the poet's life. Perhaps a friend who saw something she/he was not suppose to see. I feel this friend was not killed like Bluebeard's wife, but was unfaithful and so lost the poet's friendship.

    BaBi
    August 14, 2006 - 03:11 pm


    All will be easier when the mind 
    To meet the brutal age has grown 
    An iron cortex of its own.


    I think we have all, to some extent, had to grow an 'iron cortex' about our minds. How else could we stand the horrors of war, greed, famine and disease that have been out there, somewhere, all our lives. Sometimes, a 'fool's paradise' seems a thing to be grateful for, even if only for a while.

    Babi

    BaBi
    August 14, 2006 - 03:14 pm
    I don't know why that last post came out so large.

    Babi

    Alliemae
    August 15, 2006 - 08:56 am
    BaBi, I do so agree!! In fact, I have, over the years, designed at least two safety mechanisms that I keep stored something like the line, "Sometimes, a 'fool's paradise' seems a thing to be grateful for, even if only for a while." for when things get tough...

    First of all, during personal (especially at work) contentions I took to feigning in my mind the way that Edith Bunker used to flutter around and smile real big and say, "Allright Archie!" not even probably hearing what he was saying after a while...and as for the war...there have become times when (and I may have mentioned this before here, I don't remember) I had to 'pretend' I was watching or reading about history so that I could know what was going on and still be able to bear it. Didn't always work but it did help at times...

    Allie

    Alliemae
    August 15, 2006 - 08:59 am
    Sometimes I feel badly because I respond to shorter remarks or pieces of poems before I post about how a poem has affected me so I want you all to know that it's only because I need to spend a lot of time reading whole poems...but I do read them, think about them...and will post my feelings about them at some point.

    Alliemae

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 15, 2006 - 09:35 am
    suppose suppose suppose - and yet, it looks at the continuation of man's basic senses and emotions - I like the thought that we are like apples that fell from a tree and are no longer what we were on that tree - and the next thought is comforting to see a living hand warm who we are after we fall from the tree. Even though there are sad notes this poem to me has a 'nicer' message.

    If Still Your Orchards Bear

    Brother, that breathe the August air
    ten thousand years from now,
    and smell — if still your orchards bear
    Tart apples on the bough —

    The early windfall under the tree,
    and see the red fruit shine,
    I cannot think your thoughts will be
    much different from mine.

    Should at that moment the full moon
    step forth upon the hill,
    and memories hard to bear at noon,
    by moonlight harder still,
    form in the shadow of the trees, —
    things that you could not spare
    and live, or so you thought, yet these
    all gone, and you still there,

    a man no longer what he was,
    nor yet the thing he'd planned,
    the chilly apple from the grass
    warmed by your living hand —

    I think you will have need of tears;
    I think they will not flow;
    Supposing in ten thousand years
    Men ache, as they do now.

    MarjV
    August 15, 2006 - 11:51 am
    Yes, same as Alliemae, the poem by Zinnia's friend reminded me of H Lawson's poetry.

    Comment on "Bluebeard" - sounds to me like a betrayal by a friend. And so the narrator moves on.

    Commen on Orchard poem - would that we all have a "hand" that warms us in some way. The last stanza seems like a disconnected section.

    MarjV
    August 15, 2006 - 01:51 pm
    Wildcat, gnat and I
    Go our ways under a gray sky.
    Little that Himself has made
    Ever finds me quite afraid...
    Gnat gnawed me,
    I should shriek, or roll inthe grass
    Asking that this trouble pass.

    Things that hunt in hunger
    I stroke, across my fear:
    Only anger
    Brings the crashing tear.

    E Millay/ Mine the Harvest

    Interesting little poem .I suspect you could substitute different types of troubles for the creatures mentione in thinking about this creation.. And here we have her anger again.

    Scrawler
    August 15, 2006 - 02:16 pm
    We were very tired, we were very merry-
    We had gone back and forth all night on the ferry;
    It was bare and bright, and smelled like a stable-
    But we looked into a fire, we leaned across a table,
    We lay on the hill-top underneath the moon;
    And the whistles kept blowing, and the dawn came soon.

    We were very tired, we were very merry-
    We had gone back and forth all night on the ferry;
    And you ate an apple, and I ate a pear,
    From a dozen of each we had bought somewhere;
    And the sky went wan, and the wind came cold,
    And the sun rose dripping, a bucketful of gold.

    We were very tired, we were very merry,
    We had gone back and forth all night on the ferry.
    We hailed, "Good morrow, mother!" to a shawl-covered head
    And bought a morning paper, which neither of us read;
    And she wept, "God bless you!" for the apples and the pears,
    And we gave her all our money but our subway fares.



    ~ "The American Poetry" ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay

    I thought this poem was a very merry poem compared to those we have read so far. It seems to me it is shallow and hasn't much substance compared to some of her others, but as I said its one of the happiest I have read. I would have liked it better if the poet had done more of these merry little poems.

    BaBi
    August 15, 2006 - 02:39 pm
    BARBARA, I think "If Still Your Orchards Bear" is my favorite of all the poems of Millay I've read here. It echos for me.

    There have been a few times in my life when I have been filled with a strong sense of continuity. When younger, I felt a link with the past, a recognition when in a very old place. Now, when I'm old, I looked the other day at my daughters and felt a sense of fitness I cannot explain. Millay is right. A thousand years from now, people will feel loss and ache, and comfort themselves with the silence of night and the feel of an apple just as they do now.

    Babi

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 15, 2006 - 10:59 pm
    My sister sent this to me knowing how I have the deer in my yard - the poem said more to me and with the Millay poems that hover on either death or loss or the circle of life I have been contemplative with each and every poem this month.

    Here is the poem sent to me by my sister:

    Icon

    The deer have hollowed
    spaces
    in the snow

    they keep watch
    under my window

    I lie
    in their
    belly-shaped bowls

    see
    with their eyes,
    as monks
    learn to look
    with an icon's gaze
    at the monk
    regarding the icon

    see myself
    out of a deer's stare
    merely a blameless
    grazer

    veiled
    in curious skin.

    by Mary Rose O'Reilly
    Half Wild Poems
    Louisiana State University Press.

    Seeing as or looking at an Icon or not this reminds me of where I have been this summer -- ..."under my window - I lie in their belly-shaped bowls"

    I've been calling this the summer of my discontent since I have done nothing but build this garden all summer... I think I should just stop feeling guilty about all that I have not taken care of and simply call this - Peter's summer -

    Somehow there has been a force greater than I have known pushing and pulling at me to do this garden. Every night as I clean up I can't help it but I think of Peter - at one time he did landscape work and loved the out-of-doors living close to the land in New Mexico not far from a Pueblo.

    Building this garden has been good - I have been out of doors every evening after the breeze starts - about 6: and have been working till 9:30 or after cleaning up in the dark - I just kept going and going. I built this great garden in front of the house with three beds; one is the shade under the oaks, another getting the heat like an anvil to the sun along the front nearest the curb, and then the other along the driveway where it is shaded about half the day.

    As a result of being out there everynight I have become friendly with the neighbors - new next door - and various folks walk by everynight on their nightly walk that stop and chat - I learned about all the various plants that are deer resistant and which ones the deer here will leave alone and which ones this group will eat - it has also been good for me physically rather than sitting inside reading.

    My daughter, Kathamarie, arranged with HEB to have them bring up a wooden rocking chair I was tempted to buy but she beat me to it as a delayed Mother's Day and Easter gift which I have on the front porch - and so like the deer in the poem I have nestled down into the circle outside my windows.

    hats
    August 16, 2006 - 07:10 am
    MarjV "Untitled" is an interesting poem. I think your take on it fits. Thanks for posting it.

    JoanK
    August 16, 2006 - 11:14 am
    I like the deer poem very much. I, too, have deer in my yard in winter.

    There is a beautiful place near here where I used to go to meditate. In the pine woods, I would lie on my back on the soft needles, where the deer used to go, and go into myself. Now, I don't dare do that because of Lyme disease. So sad.

    hats
    August 16, 2006 - 01:03 pm
    Scrawler I enjoyed "Reccuerdo:" also. It does seem like a happier poem. The repetition in the poem, I think, gives a feel of the ferry. It's a feeling of lightness and freedom in this one. I like the part where the pears and apples are given to the lady. These moments of complete happiness are rare for some people like E. Millay. That's why I so appreciate these free spirited poems.

    hats
    August 16, 2006 - 01:12 pm
    I hate to pick another poem posted by Scrawler. I do love "Bluebeard." I think it is about a woman who needed a space of her own. One place where being herself would not offend anyone. Then, her private place is invaded, maybe by someone judgmental of her creativity or judgmental of something about her character. Since, this secret place is invaded she must find a new space, a place where she is free to be happy. I think she also has a fear of allowing her whole self to be known by others. She has been hurt in the past and does not want to be hurt again.

    An empty room, cobwebbed and comfortless.
    Yet this alone out of my life I kept
    Unto myself lest any know me quite;
    And you did so profane me when you crept
    Unto the threshold of his room to-night
    That I must never more behold your face
    This now is yours. I seek another place.

    BaBi
    August 16, 2006 - 01:16 pm
    BARBARA, thank you for sharing 'Peter's summer' with us. It is a very moving memorial. Here's wishing you long, pleasant evenings to sit and enjoy the peace and beauty of your garden.

    Babi

    hats
    August 16, 2006 - 01:19 pm
    Barbara Along with Babi I would like to say how much I enjoy hearing about your Night Garden. I am glad you are finding happiness in it and finding new friends.

    hats
    August 16, 2006 - 01:20 pm
    I have gotten behind in posting. Please excuse me. I am skipping around, reading and rereading, trying to catch up.

    hats
    August 16, 2006 - 01:33 pm
    Barbara I had to read this one over and over. I always love to read about apples in novels and poems. I would love to own and grow an apple orchard. This is one of my fantastic dreams. This poem speaks to me because the person is thinking outside of the box, ten thousand years in the future. I have never looked too far in to the future. I suppose life is so hard at times looking at the next day is difficult.

    In ten thousand years I believe much will change in our society. I do believe one thing will remain constant. Emotions I believe will always remain a part of a man's being: The ability to cry, to laugh, to sigh after seeing a beautiful part of nature or to smile with appreciation while holding a shiny red apple with that apple cider smell.

    Scrawler
    August 16, 2006 - 04:08 pm
    The Bluebeard poem was considered a sonnet.

    Sonnet II:

    I think I should have loved you presently,
    And given in earnest words I flung in jest;
    And lifted honest eyes for you to see.
    And caught your hand agaisnt my cheek and breast;
    And all my pretty follies flung aside
    That won you to me, and beneath your gaze,
    Naked of reticence and shorn of pride,
    Spread like a chart my little wicked ways.
    I, that had been to you, had you remained,
    But one more walking from a recurrent dream,
    Cherish no less the certain stakes I gained,
    And walk your memory's halls, austere, supreme,
    A ghost in marble of girl you knew
    Who would have loved you in a day or two. ~ "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    To me this poem seems to speak of the "one" that got away.

    hats
    August 16, 2006 - 06:10 pm
    She had a horror he would die at night.
    And sometimes when the light began to fade
    She could not keep from noticing how white
    The birches looked--and then she would be afraid,
    Even with a lamp, to go about the house
    And lock the windows; and as night wore on
    Toward morning, if a dog howled, or a mouse
    Squeaked in the floor, long after it was gone
    Her flesh would sit awry on her. By day
    She would forget somewhat, and it would seem
    A silly thing to go with just this dream
    And get a neighbor to come at night and stay.
    But it would strike her sometimes, making the tea:
    She had kept that kettle boiling all night long, for company.


    At night physical and emotional pain becomes worse. Noises seem louder at night. What is stressful in the daytime becomes a nightmare at nighttime. In daytime everything is easier to handle.

    By day
    She would forget somewhat, and it would seem
    A silly thing....
    And get a neighbor to come at night and stay.

    Alliemae
    August 16, 2006 - 06:21 pm
    ...and in addition, speaks I think of the 'one' with whom she wished she'd have set aside her flippant facade (which she used to mask deep feelings which I think she shows some fear of IMHO) and rather

    "And lifted honest eyes for you to see.
    And caught your hand agaisnt my cheek and breast;
    And all my pretty follies flung aside..."

    ...and where this poor child (for some reason I more and more seem to think of Millay as a 'poor child') learns that sometimes there is a price to pay for 'acting the coquette'...

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    August 17, 2006 - 01:53 pm
    I Shall forget you presently, my dear
    So make the most of this, your little day,
    Your little month, your little half a year,
    Ere I forget, or die, or move away,
    And we are done forever; by and by
    I shall forget you, as I said, but now
    If you entreat me with your loveliest lie
    I will protest you with my favorite vow.
    I would indeed that love were longer-lived,
    And vows were not so brittle as they are,
    But so it is, and nature has contrived
    To struggle on without a break thus far, -
    Whether or not we find what we are seeking
    Is idle, biologically speaking.

    ~ "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    To me this reminds me of a movie I once saw called "The Games People Play." The more I read of Millay's poetry the more I don't think I like the person she portrays in her poems. I can't be sure if this is Millay herself or only an individual of her imagination. But I don't like people who "play" with other people concerning the real problems of "love". This poem may have been met to come off as "playful" but I see it as being mean.

    Mallylee
    August 17, 2006 - 02:39 pm
    Scrawler, I like Sonnet IV. It's unclear, as you said, whether this is Millay speaking, or whether she is putting the words in another;s mouth. I wonder if the ambiguity is deliberate, to make it that it is the glorification of romantic love that is false. The punch line at the end is great.

    BaBi
    August 17, 2006 - 03:36 pm
    Sonnet II and IV both speak to me of the shallowness and the 'facade' Alliemae mentions. She seems unable to let go and be serious with anyone. She is protecting herself from hurt, by never letting anyone get too close.

    "If you entreat me with your loveliest lie 
    I will protest you with my favorite vow."


    Her 'favorite' vow, one she apparently uses often. The more I read of Millay, the sadder I am for her. ALLIEMAE's "poor child" is terribly appropriate.

    Babi

    annafair
    August 18, 2006 - 04:30 am
    The poems and your thoughts . Barbara I think you brave and special to share your thoughts of Peter's Summer..I know working in a garder is one of the best things we can do for ourselves ..and I am glad you gave yourself that gift.

    Funny when I read Millay years ago I never thought of her as sad but capable of writing things I understood. That was my youth speaking for I had not lived long enough to understand. Now I know her history and I am weighted my her sadness and she is a poor child.I think when we read her biography we see her always searching for something and it was never found.

    Today I am glad she writes with a sadness for my dear sister in law passed away last night. Later today I will post a poem about our relationship but now will use one of Millays. anna'

    Elegy Before Death
    Edna St. Vincent Millay


    There will be rose and rhododendron
    When you are dead and under ground;
    Still will be heard from white syringas
    Heavy with bees, a sunny sound.


    Still will the tamaracks be raining
    After the rain has ceased, and still
    Will there be robins in the stubble,
    Brown sheep upon the warm green hill.


    Spring will not fail nor autumn falter;
    Nothing will know that you are gone,
    Saving alone some sullen plough-land
    None but yourself set foot upon;


    Saving the may-weed and the pig-weed
    Nothing will know that you are dead, ---
    These, and perhaps a useless wagon
    Standing beside some tumbled shed.


    Oh, there will pass with your great passing
    Little of beauty not your own, ---
    Only the light from common water,
    Only the grace from simple stone.

    annafair
    August 18, 2006 - 04:54 am
    I wrote this the other day when my brother in law told me there was only a 50/50 chance she would survive. There were just the two children Josie and her brother, my husband And I was an only girl with 5 brothers and sister was what we both missed,They would have been married 55 years come November and had no children He has no living family save ours Her illness of long standing made her his child and he cared for her as someone who loved this child, She was 84 and he is 86 ..She was a Wave in WWII and he retired after 30 years in the USAF and worked for government until his second retirement.I wait to see what he wishes. He said he wanted no phone calls because he cant discuss this yet. He didnt want any of us there and it is 7 hours away and so we have kept in touch by phone and letters and cards..I will wait today to see what his plans are and am not sure he knows himself. Funny he has colon cancer and for a long time she wondered what she would do when he died since she felt that would be the way it would happen. But with her own illness this is the best No one would have been able to care for her as he did ..I think when he thinks of that he will be glad she left while he could still take her the tidbits she loved, and his voice the last she heard. thanks for listening ..anna

    Remembering Josie


    You wrote a letter to welcome me
    Each would be the sister we never knew
    I remember night vanishing into morn’s first light
    As we talked and talked until
    Our voices hoarse and tired ached
    Each rejoicing in a sister now
    You were there as we faced each
    Dazzling dawn , a lifetime of memories
    You were with us as we rode the storms
    That pummel all
    The years have melted in life’s warmth
    For both of us , our chestnut curls
    Have thinned and faded to gray
    The peaches of our youthful cheeks
    Are pale and wan , we waver on the edge
    Inquire of life .. What will tomorrow bring
    The answer sealed from our hidden hearts
    Will be found in another dawn
    When wherever we are , in whatever form or shape
    We will hold each other and say
    You were the sister of my heart….


    anna alexander August 9, 2006, 7:44 AM©

    Mallylee
    August 18, 2006 - 06:02 am
    Condolences to Anna. Your poem Anna, says it all.

    I had to edit this, and add, how fortunate you both bwere

    Alliemae
    August 18, 2006 - 06:29 am
    Dear Anna,

    What a wonderful way to acquire a sister...through soul and serendipity! The Universe WILL take care of Its own if we let It...

    Your poem is a lovely and touching tribute to Josie.

    My heart goes out to you in your sorrow.

    Hugs, Alliemae

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 18, 2006 - 10:39 am
    Annie you are in my thoughts and prayers - oh yes, to know you were really of a service to someone when you thought you had so little left to give and someone who you dearly loved, what a blessing.

    hats
    August 18, 2006 - 11:17 am
    My thoughts and prayers, along with the others , are with you too. Your poem proves you had a most beautiful relationship with your sister-in-law.

    Scrawler
    August 18, 2006 - 02:27 pm
    If I were to walk this way
    Hand in hand with Grief
    I should mark the maple-spray
    Coming into leaf
    I should not how the old burrs
    Rot upon the ground.
    Yes, though Grief should know me hers
    While the world goes round,
    It could not in truth be said
    This was lost on me:
    A rock-maple showing red,
    Burrs beneath a tree.

    "American Poetry" ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay

    Anna I sure your grief.

    Mallylee
    August 19, 2006 - 02:55 am
    Thanks Scrawler, for showing me this poem about grief. Here is one from an Australian called Michael Leunig :

    When the heart is cut

    Or cracked or broken

    Do not clutch it

    Let the wound lie open.

    Let the wind

    From the good old sea blow in

    To bathe the wound with salt

    And let it sting.

    Let a stray dog lick it.

    Let a bird lean in the hole and sing

    A simple song like a tiny bell

    And let it ring.

    hats
    August 19, 2006 - 03:10 am
    MallyLee that is a beautiful poem. I think it is true too. Although it hurts, we have to let the pain come through. Then, in time, healing comes.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 19, 2006 - 10:34 am
    Oh MallyLee - how wonderful - oh yes, just wonderful - I am copying it for the future - just wonderful...

    Scrawler
    August 19, 2006 - 11:21 am
    If I grow bitterly,
    Like a gnarled and stunted tree,
    Bearing harshly of my youth
    Puckered fruit that scars the mouth;
    If I make of my drawn boughs
    An inhospitable house,
    Out of which I never pry
    Towards the water and the sky,
    Under which I stand and hide
    And hear the day go by outside;
    It is that a wind too strong
    Bent my back when I was young,
    It is that I fear the rain
    Lest it blister me again.

    "American Poetry" Edna St. Vincent Millay

    This certainly describes at least the poet of being fearful and perhaps even a recluse. Whether or not this describes Millay, I think is doubtful considering the kind of social life she had, but than does it describe how she feels inside and not the way the rest of the world saw her?

    hats
    August 19, 2006 - 11:38 am
    Scrawler good poem. I can feel the pain in the words. It makes me not want to judge the choices made by other people. Who can know what troubles have been dealt with in their life?

    MarjV
    August 19, 2006 - 12:19 pm
    Comment on Sonnet IV: Isn't this attitude rampant today! " I would indeed that love were longer-lived,And vows were not so brittle as they are" - And as BaBi says "shallowness"

    Comment on "Elegy Before Death" : She seems to be writing that nothing is left after one dies. Tho, she does not realize, I believe at the time of creativing this poem, that memories can live beyond the grave.

    Lovely memory of Josie, Anna. She will live on in your heart.

    Thanks MallyLee - that is a poem full of truth. The sting before the healing.

    Comment on "Scrub" - don't we know people that are held back by what happened in their youth; that cannot seem to get beyond as these lines say -"It is that a wind too strong/ Bent my back when I was young,/ It is that I fear the rain/ Lest it blister me again." Fear is a mighty agent isn't it.

    MarjV
    August 19, 2006 - 12:29 pm
    I think this poem is fascinating - from Fatal Interview Sonnets/1941

    IV

    Nay, learned doctor, these fine leeches fresh
    From the pond's edge my cause cannot remove:
    Alas, the sick disorder in my flesh
    Is deeper than your skill, is very love.
    And you good friar , far liefer would I think
    Upon my dear, and dream him in your place,
    Than heed your bene'cites and heavenward sink
    With empty heart and noddle full of grace.
    Breathes but one mortal on the teeming globe
    Could minister to my soul's or body's needs -
    Physician minus physic, minus robe'
    Confessor minus Latin, minus beads.
    Yet should you bid me name him, I am dumb;
    For though you summon him, he would not come.


    ----I would love to hear some comments on it. I think she is definitely putting off medical and spiritual help as having no value. Rather biting sarcasm.

    Alliemae
    August 19, 2006 - 03:17 pm
    Mallylee, I had written a post earlier today on your poem by Michael Leunig. I don't know what I did wrong but it seems it hasn't posted.

    The poem reminded me once again at how pure and true the few Australian poets I have read capture the raw beauty and deep realities of life and turn them into precious jems.

    I really loved this poem. I am always looking for a poem to memorize so to take with me wherever I go...this will be one of those poems.

    Thank you for posting it.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 19, 2006 - 03:31 pm
    "I think she is definitely putting off medical and spiritual help as having no value." (Marj)

    Marj, I see what you mean by 'putting off medical and spiritual help...' but the bitterness I feel as being directed to herself. I wonder if it's possible that here she has gone along, a little like 'Peter Pan' in her 'burning of the candle at both ends' only now to learn she has an incurable disease...how dreadfully ironic. The intensity of the bitterness she seems to be expressing does not seem to be toward 'the healers' but toward herself (either consciously or subconsciously?) although the anger within the bitterness could be directed to the 'healers' if she only has partial inner certainty that this is something she laughed at as 'never being able to touch her'...

    What do you think?

    Alliemae

    hats
    August 19, 2006 - 04:08 pm
    MarjV I think she is yearning for a perfect love. What she desires is never given by any person. So, she is sick for love. She is unfulfilled. No medical doctor, no church confessor can heal her because she is neither spiritually ill nor physically sick. She just yearns for someone who is perfectly different. Perhaps, a love too good to be true, a love which lives only in her imagination.

    Physician minus physic, minus robe'
    Confessor minus Latin, minus beads.
    Yet should you bid me name him, I am dumb;
    For though you summon him, he would not come.


    I really like this sonnet.

    MarjV
    August 19, 2006 - 04:29 pm
    Good thoughts; thanks! I think at the moment I would agree with Hats; first I thought it was a bodily disease. But then: "alas....the sick disorder....is very love" The anger and bitterness, A, could be towards herself since she doesn't have this love(r). She wants a cure for lovesickness perhaps - but neither doc nor religious person can heal but the love(r)??????

    Much fun to theorize.

    Scrawler
    August 20, 2006 - 11:43 am
    Never, never may the fruit be plucked from the bough
    And gathered into barrels.
    He that would eat of love must eat it where it hangs.
    Though the branches bend like reeds,
    Though the ripe fruit splash in the grass or wrinkle on the tree,
    He that would eat of love may bear away with him
    Only what his belly can hold,
    Nothing in the apron,
    Nothing in the pockets
    Never, never may the fruit be gathered from the bough
    And harvested in barrels
    The winter of love is a cellar of empty bins,
    In an orchard soft with rot.

    ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay "American Poetry"

    It seems to me that this poem goes along with the last few poems about "love". And in this poem the poet is stating that you can't take love with you when you go. How sad that the poet feels that: "The winter of love is a cellar of empty bins/ In an orchard soft with rot."

    Mallylee
    August 20, 2006 - 02:00 pm
    Youth is the time for romantic love. Nobody can preserve youth either.

    It's not entirely true, though, that romantic love has to be garnered immediately. Often, distance lends enchantment and forbidden apples are the most desirable.

    However, I feel that her message is less superficial than an advice to 'gather rosebuds while ye may'; it's more like appreciating the lover as a person, and not as a guarantee of future prosperity.

    Jim in Jeff
    August 20, 2006 - 04:13 pm
    Great Edna thoughts shared here. I'm far behind your posts and thoughts. I can never catch up. Not ONE frivolous thought posted here...! Here's a few random comments tonight:

    Edna St Vincent Millay's poems often are a reflection of HER times. True, many of her thoughts would today be diagnosed as "depression." But same seems to me true of MANY modern poets: Jack Kerouac; Bob Dylan; Hunter S Thompson; Pete Seeger; etc, etc. Beatniks all, IMHO.

    I'm not degrading Beatnik poetry. It airs new voices' thoughts about society (or whatever). BRAVO! And I still hang out in coffee shops. I'm just trying to put Millay's negative thoughts into same context as her contemporaries (and those following her in grassroots poetry).

    This did wash a LOT of the hyprocisy out of our American societal beliefs then. Is all...pretty heady (above my head, for sure). So back to Millay's poems. The TWO of hers that I'd known and loved before this month's discussions...have been posted here, early-on.

    One was her fig: "My candle burns at both ends; It will not last the night; But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends-- It gives a lovely light!"

    My other previous Millay fave was her sonnet to mourners: "Time does not bring relief." Both these Millay faves of mine were posted here early-on by others. So tonight I'll just share a third fave Millay poem of mine (in sonnet form, and it could be titled "Love Is Not ALL):

    Love is not all: it is not meat nor drink
    Nor slumber nor a roof against the rain;
    Nor yet a floating spar to men that sink
    And rise and sink and rise and sink again;
    Love can not fill the thickened lung with breath,
    Nor clean the blood, nor set the fractured bone;
    Yet many a man is making friend with death
    Even as I speak, for lack of love alone.
    It well may be that in a difficult hour,
    Pinned down by pain and moaning for release,
    Or nagged by want past resolution's power,
    I might be driven to sell your love for peace,
    Or trade the memory of this night for food.
    It well may be. I do not think I would.

    I confess that I savor EVERY SYLLABLE of this poem...especially it's last-line surprise conclusion. Well done, Edna!

    Alliemae
    August 20, 2006 - 04:46 pm
    I agree, Marj and I must say Hats that I was fascinated by your take on that same poem...I just have to re-read it more carefully...because I still can't rationalize the 'anger and bitterness'...so desperately acute to me...if it is only love...unless, of course, it's her realizing how much she herself is desperate for love and at the same time desperately trying to hang on to her 'self'...yes...'much fun to theorize'!!! I love this part of a poetry discussion!! One must always be aware of how much one may be using a bit of 'transference' from the poet to oneself, eh?

    And it seems like a common problem. How about that Broadway hit, "What I did for love." ("Kiss today goodbye, and point me toward tomorrow...")

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 20, 2006 - 04:48 pm
    hmmmm...not sure I agree with that one! Given the right time and the right place and the right people...I don't think love OR romance has an age...

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    August 20, 2006 - 04:49 pm
    I think I just realized why I'm analyzing with such a pro-romance euphoria...

    We started our Latin and Greek registration today...anyone who knows me will understand why that is "almost like being in love"!!

    Silly Alliemae

    BaBi
    August 20, 2006 - 05:04 pm
    MARJ's offering of Sonnet IV has certainly drawn a response. My thought was not that she was rejecting medical/spiritual help as of no value in themselves. Rather that they could not help her in her situation. Her illness had roots in her 'anger and bitterness', which medicine could not help. And her bitterness had its root in the loved one who would not come, even if he were called. So she rejected spiritual consolation as well. She did not want the doctors and the priests. She wanted someone who did not want her, and that seems the long and short of it.

    Babi

    anne arden
    August 20, 2006 - 05:51 pm
    Hello All,

    I would like to join this stimulating, thoughtful discussion of Edna's poetry. I have just registered with SrNet to take the Latin 101 class and am like a kid in a candy shop wanting to subscribe to all the wonderful book discussions - but as I am not yet fully retired I am going to restrain myself to this poetry discussion and the Latin course (and maybe the Poe discussions - I would so like to join the civilization and Darwin discussions - but some other day).

    I have reviewed all the marvelous posts on Millay's work and bio - I started out taking notes, thinking I would try to respond to many as an introduction - but it soon became overwhelming so I will just take up where we are at present.

    I am a novice at analyzing poetry and have learned a great deal by studying your comments on the Millay works cited here. Reading poetry has been a joy all my life, but I must admit it has been the rhythm, musicality, the clever turn of phrase that called to me and held my attention - but always knew there was a deeper level that I was missing. Just as I venture into a new frontier with the Latin - I will learn from you all to read between the lines!

    I would like to comment on some of the earlier thoughts expressed regarding the possibility that Millay suffered from depression or bipoalr disorder - as we know them today. It has been suggested that if she had had access to the medications now in use that her work might have had a different tone. I have heard that some artistic/creative individuals find that the antidepressants and/or antipsychotics blunt their creativity and some come to forgo the stability of mood for the pleasurable/painful forays into their creative nature. Do you think it is possible that she would not have been as creative and/or productive if she had had access to the current medications?

    Nedra

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 20, 2006 - 09:23 pm
    anne arden WELCOME so glad you found us - and yes, I agree, my best friend's daughter is bipolar and her meds keep her even but with little to no passion about anything - since she is a head nurse at Scott and White this new trait is probably very good for her demanding job rather than the roller coaster ride she used to be on reacting to every patient that came to her attention.

    I think that ripple affect of our behavior is a good example - if no stones are dropped into the pond then there is stillness that only reflects the surroundings - where as the ripple gives identity to the pond as a thing of movement and rhythm.

    It has been interesting studying one poet for a month - I had no idea how desperate and lonely that is most of Millay's poetry until we took the time to give her work more than a read or two.

    anne my take on recognizing meter and rhythm etc. has been, they are tools as a means to an end - giving emphasis to certain words that sing with some inner music and pull our inner strings so that the human condition or our breath can be explained in ways that prose cannot touch.

    It will be exciting for us to have another voice adding to the music of these poets - thanks for including Poetry as an interest you would like to pursue...

    Scrawler
    August 21, 2006 - 12:30 pm
    I, being born a woman and distressed
    By all the needs and notions of my kind
    Am urged by your propinquity to find
    Your person fair, and feel a certain zest
    To bear your body's weight upon my breast:
    To subtly is the fume of life designed,
    To clarify the pulse and cloud the mind,
    And leave me once again undone, possessed.
    Think not for this, however, the poor treason
    Of my stout blood against my staggering brain,
    I shall remember you with love, or season
    My scorn with pity, - let me make it plain:
    I find this frenzy insufficient reason
    For conversation when we meet again.

    ~ Edna St. Vincent Millay ~ "American Poetry"

    It is much easier to go with the flow than to swim upstream against the current and I think Millay did just that - swim upstream against the "norm" for which she suffered. The 1920s which is when Millay's career started were considered the "Roaring Twenties." With the end of WWI [the war to end all wars] people of that generation could not simply go back to the traditional way that it was before.

    I think my generation had the same problem at the end of WWII and that's why the beatnik poetry took hold in the 1950s. I know for a fact that we lived our lives in the 1950s as if there was no tomorrow and I can also see Millay living with this attitude as well.

    I really believe that artists, poets, and writers react to the world around them before the general public does. This I think was what Millay's poetry suggests. She was reacting to the "modern" times of the 1920s as opposed to the more traditional times before WWI.

    annafair
    August 22, 2006 - 04:12 am
    I have been reading the posts and it is a gift to read your contributions and I thank all for your comforting words ..I cant say I am really back to normal but at least enough I can return and be part of this discussion.

    My sister in law will be buried in Arlington ( she was a WAVE in WWII) and her husband is retired military. They chose cremation which is my choice and I will be in DC in Sept for a few days as the service is at 9am My husband is buried there so it will be a time to visit his gravesite and also one of my brothers who served for ten years in the Coast Guard and in WWII and his wife..

    Now back to this discussion Let me welcome Anne Arden,,,,you sound the perfect person for this discussion and we look forward to your thoughts and your favorite poems . Whitman will be our poet of the month in September and besides the poet of the month everyone is welcome to post any poet of their choice or even an orginal poem of their own here ..We are a most lively and interesting group ...and it is a joy to be part of this discussion.We hope you will come and sit a spell!

    Jim the last line in the poem you posted feels like something I would say...LOL AND romance NEVER dies. it may live only in our hearts but it is THERE.....

    Scrawler I had to laugh at the last line in the poem you posted in #535 and while I do think Millay suffered from depression it is also true she was acting like a poet should ..SHE NOTICED the world around her ..and that is something poets do ...and whether you write it or just read it and enjoy it ..all who appreciate poetry I think notice the world around us..Perhaps we dont write but we appreciate the writer who opens the doors to life and allows us in.

    I have wanted to post but found all the poems I read only making me feel sad so I have waited until I could appreciate how important my sister in law was to me , how grateful I am for her being part of my life and for allowing myself to say Thank you Josie and GOD BLESS YOU>

    I did find a poem to share today and here it is.I had to smile when I read this poem I used to tell my husband he didnt need to worry about my love for him UNLESS ROCK HUDSON would come by ! Well we now know he had no cause for concern .. again I thank you all .And GOD BLESS EACH OF YOU >.anna

    TO THE NOT IMPOSSIBLE HIM


    HOW shall I know, unless I go
    To Cairo and Cathay,
    Whether or not this blessed spot
    Is blest in every way?


    Now it may be, the flower for me
    Is this beneath my nose;
    How shall I tell, unless I smell
    The Carthaginian rose?


    The fabric of my faithful love
    No power shall dim or ravel
    Whilst I stay here,–but oh, my dear
    If I should ever travel!


    Edna St Vincent Millay

    hats
    August 22, 2006 - 05:10 am
    Dear Anna,

    You have been through quite an ordeal. My thoughts remain with you. ___________________________________________________________________

    I Being Born A Woman by E. Millay

    I love "I Being Born A Woman by E. Millay. I feel like the woman in this poem is becoming stronger. No longer a woman torn about by just her feelings of passion. It seems she has come to know that the mind must follow the heart. The woman is, I think, mature in this poem. She speaks of her "stout blood." She no longer wants to be "undone and possessed." When she meets her loved one again, she wants more than as been offered in the past.

    I find this frenzy insufficient reason
    For conversation when we meet again.

    hats
    August 22, 2006 - 05:15 am
    I feel a lightness in this poem. A feeling of wanting to see the lay of the land, what other fish are in the sea. After all, who wants to choose the wrong guy???

    Scrawler
    August 22, 2006 - 11:10 am
    Pile high the hickory and the light
    Log of chestnut struck by the blight.
    Welcome-in the winter night

    The day has gone in hewing and felling,
    Sawing and drawing wood to the dwelling
    For the night of talk and story-telling.

    These are the hours that give the edge
    To the blunted axe and the bent wedge
    Straighten the saw and lighten the sledge.

    Here are question and reply,
    And the fire relected in the thinking eye,
    So peace, and let the bob-cat cry.

    Edna St. Vincent Millay ~ "American Poetry"

    Of all the poems so far I think I like this one the best. It talks about those wonderful winter nights when we and hopefully the rest of the world are at peace.

    hats
    August 22, 2006 - 11:52 am
    Scrawler I like this one too. It puts me in a quiet mood. I am looking forward to winter quiet evenings.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 22, 2006 - 01:46 pm
    Don't you feel like rasafras when you write a post and something goes wonky so that you loose the whole thing - grrrrr

    This has been a treat today with the last three poems - Scrawler bringing us Winter Night - which by the way tried to figure out and cannot find in the dictionary "relected" - how it is used I have an idea of its meaning but I would have liked a good definition - anyone have one...?

    Than Hats comments on "I Being Born A Woman" shared by Scrawler - another poem with a word I had to look up - with some success this time - "propinquity" - and then Anna sharing "To The Not Impossible Him" that mentions the Carthaginian rose which was another opportunity for research.

    anne arden
    August 23, 2006 - 08:55 am
    When I read this poem it sounded like the musings after a one night stand (with man or woman) - possibly an outrageous commentary in its time! I was a little embarassed to post these thoughts at first - then I read the "read only" postings from Savage Beauty from a couple of years ago and thought - himm maybe this could be ok.

    As a woman she has needs and notions (passions);
    Someone near and attractive stirs her desires
    for a very close encounter.

    [what is meant by
    "To subtly is the fume of life designed"?]

    But once this deed is done, don't think -
    Just because she allowed her passions
    to temporarily cloud her mind;
    And no matter how nice or unplesant the experience -
    that it will mean anything
    the morning after
    So don't condsider discussing
    Whenever or if ever they meet again.


    Nedra

    anne arden
    August 23, 2006 - 09:03 am
    Night falls fast
    Today is in the past
    Blown from dark hill
    Hither to my door,
    Three flakes, then four,
    Arrive, then many more.


    Kay Redfield Jamison (Neuropsychologist and author) wrote a very enthralling study of the relation between manic-depressive-illness and the artistic temperatment and the creative process, entitled "Touced with Fire". She mentions ESVM in this work. Jamison also wrote of her own experiences with bipolar disorder in "An Unquiet Mind" and her attempted suicide "Night Falls Fast" - the title taken the ESVM poem above.

    Nedra

    anne arden
    August 23, 2006 - 09:30 am
    ....when she writes of nature - in this case the apporaching winter season - she speaks to my heart. Also the love of sharing thoughts and ideas with others - as we do here....

    Welcome in the winter night
    For the night of talk and story telling

    ....

    Here are question and reply
    And the fire relected in the thinking eye,
    So peace, and let the bob-cat cry.


    How many times I have sighed her words
    "Oh World, I can not hold thee close enough....."
    When observing a beautiful sunrise, sunset or the brilliant yellow of a promonetary warbler.

    Nedra

    hats
    August 23, 2006 - 10:34 am
    anne arden Welcome! I have enjoyed reading your comments and the poems you have chosen. I bet Kay Redfield Jamison's book is very interesting.

    Scrawler
    August 23, 2006 - 10:48 am
    Barbara, "relected" should have been "reflected". My mistake - sorry. Also, propinquity means:

    1) Proximity; nearness.
    2) Kinship
    3) Similarity in nature


    Rendezvous:
    Not for these lovely blooms that prank your chambers did I
    come. Indeed,
    I could have loved you better in the dark;
    That is to say, in rooms less bright with roses, rooms more
    casual, less aware
    Of History in the wings about to enter with benevolent air
    On ponderous tiptoe, at the cue "Proceed."
    Not that I like the ash-trays over-crowded and the place in a
    mess,
    Or the monastic cubicle too unctuously austere and stark,
    But partly that these formal garlands for our Eighth Street
    Aphrodite are a bit too Greek,
    And partly that to make the poor walls rich with our unaided
    loveliness
    Would have been more chic.
    Yet here I am, having told you of my quarrel with the taxi-
    driver over a line of Milton, and you laugh; and you are
    you, none other.
    Your laughter pelts my skin with small delicious blows.
    But I am perverse: I wish you had not scrubbed - with
    pumice, I suppose -
    The tobacco stains from your beautiful fingers. And I wish I
    did not feel like your mother.

    Edna St. Vincent Millay "American Poetry"

    I love the line: "Your laughter pelts my skin with small delicious blows." As for the rest, I think she "protests" too much. Why did the poet have a rendezvous if all she wanted to do was complain about it. But than that last line: "And I wish I did not feel like your mother" probably tells the tale.

    anne arden
    August 23, 2006 - 02:25 pm
    There it was I saw what I shall never forget
    And never retrieve.
    Monstrous and beautiful to human eyes, hard to believe,
    He lay, yet there he lay,
    Asleep on the moss, his head on his polished cleft
    small ebony hoves,
    The child of the doe, the dappled child of the deer,

    Surely his mother had never said, “Lie here
    Till I return,” so spotty and plain to see
    On the green moss lay he.
    His eyes had opened; he considered me.

    I would have given more than I care to say
    To thrifty ears, might I have had him for my friend
    One moment only of that forest day:

    Might I have had the acceptance, not the love of those clear eyes;
    Might I have been for him in the bough above
    Or the root beneath his forest bed,
    A part of the forest, seen without surprise.

    Was it alarm, or was it the wind of my fear lest he depart
    That jerked him to his jointy knees,
    And sent him crashing off, leaping and stumbling
    On his new legs, between the stems of the white trees?

    Edna St. Vincent Millay

    Not sure what is meant by MONSTROUS and beautiful. Can't imagine what would be monstrous about a little fawn.

    But so relate to her wishes
    "Might I have had him for a friend...."
    and
    "to be a part of the forest, seen without surprise."

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 23, 2006 - 03:22 pm
    I can only guess but maybe Monstrous that the fawn was there alone - the does do that for the fawns protection as she goes off to graze but to a human whose poems have often touched on the lonely it could be that a fawn, like a child alone would seem monstrous...???

    Alliemae
    August 23, 2006 - 06:20 pm
    "He lay, yet there he lay,
    Asleep on the moss, his head on his polished cleft
    small ebony hoves,"

    These lines seemed so lovely and poetic to me...like a gentle painting.

    Alliemae

    hats
    August 24, 2006 - 05:50 am
    I like "Night Falls Fast." I get the impression that the past was not so easily forgotten. I suppose without the right mental work the past just follows us and builds upon itself to my hurt.

    hats
    August 24, 2006 - 06:38 am
    CITY TREES

    The trees along this city street,
    Save for the traffic and the trains,
    Would make a sound as thin and sweet
    As trees in country lanes.


    And people standing in their shade
    Out of a shower, undoubtedly
    Would hear such music as is made
    Upon a country tree.


    Oh, little leaves that are so dumb
    Against the shrieking city air,
    I watch you when the wind has come,--
    I know what sound is there.


    Autumn is drawing closer. This is the time when tree get all the attention they deserve. So, I chose this poem in dedication to trees.

    Scrawler
    August 24, 2006 - 11:28 am
    I, too, beneath your moon, almighty Sex,
    Go forth at nightfall crying like a cat,
    Leaving the ivory tower I labored at
    For birds to foul and boys and girls to vex
    With tittering chalk; and you, and the long necks
    Of neighbors sitting where their mothers sat
    Are well aware of shadowy this and that
    In me, that's neither noble nor complex.

    Such as I am, however, I have brought
    To what it is, this tower; it is my own
    Though it was reared To Beauty, it was wrought
    From what I had to build with: honest bone
    Is there, and anguish; pride; and burning thought;
    And lust is there, and nights not spent alone.

    Edna St. Vincent Millay "American Poetry"

    I think the key to this poem is in the last two lines: Is there, and anguish pride; and burning thought/And lust is there, and nights not spent alone."

    For what purpose does it do to think about "sex" and all its various obligations; when lust is there and you don't want to spend the night alone.

    anne arden
    August 24, 2006 - 05:32 pm
    Scrawler, thanks for this challenging sonnet. Unlike Vincent's sweet nature poetry where I feel comfortable to take her every word at face value, this sonnet bewilders me. Is she saying that by day she is as an upstanding academic/writer/poet - a reputation she has struggled to build by honest bone, anguish, pride, and burning thought - but by night, crying like a cat, she enjoys her other nature and satisfies her lust, not sleeping alone???

    Barbara, thanks for shaping the possibilities regarding Monstrous with regard to the little fawn, it does seem like an odd choice of words, as every other word, syllable, phrase in this piece is so delicate and precious. Perhaps, the shock of that word reflects the mixture of feelings (shock and awe) one might feel when happening upon a tiny fawn alone in the woods. By the way I loved your poem about 9 inches of rain - the rhymicity of that piece was splendid - the kind of thing I can understand!

    Hats, do you know if there is more to the poem "Night Falls Fast" than what I quoted above. I took that from the Jamison book, but have not been able to find it in an anthology of her work. It seems a little incomplete to my novice poetry sensibilities.

    Interesting tidbit: Harvard has a contest that seeks specific proposals that will encourage students to seek treatment for depression or manic depression, outline innovative ways to deal with the stigma surrounding depression, and articulate practical and imaginative educational campaigns about the illness. The Vincent prize is named after famed artist Vincent Van Gogh and the poet Edna St. Vincent Millay, both of whom suffered from depressive illnesses. See website below:

    http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/03.08/07-vincentprize.html

    With this post, I have to say good bye to ESVM, I'm going to be at the shore for a week with my 9 grandchildren and my three children and their spouses. I will be looking forward to sharing the life and work of Walt Whitman with you when I return.

    Thanks so much for letting me join your discussions.

    Annafair, my thoughts are with you on your travels to Arlington for the burial of your sil and to visit the gravesite of your husband and brother. Your poetry about your husband - in Savage Beauty was so beautiful and tender.

    Nedra

    hats
    August 25, 2006 - 02:54 am
    Anne I am sorry. I looked in my anthology. I did not see "Night Falls Fast" listed.

    I have enjoyed your being here. Come back soon. Enjoy your time at the beach. I just noticed your website link. Thank you.

    MarjV
    August 25, 2006 - 06:58 am
    Great to have Anne Arden join us!

    Interesting article about Harvard and the project.

    If you can "see" things deeper and differently due to your mental illness , but can still function ok according to your own decision, would you seek help if you were satisified and happy with your artistic creativity????????

    MarjV
    August 25, 2006 - 07:01 am
    Edna St. Vincent Millay (1892-1950)

    MarjV
    August 25, 2006 - 07:10 am
    Comment on "City Trees": One of her more positive poems. We do need trees in the city - for us, for the environment and for the birds.

    I like this following poem - it has a brightness .

    #12 from Mine the Harvest/ESVMillay

    SONG

    Beautiful dove, come back to us in April:
    You could not over-winter in our world.
    Fly to some milder planet until springtime;
    Return with olive in your claws upcurled.

    Leave us to shrikes and ravens until springtime:
    We let them find their food as best they may;
    But you, we do not gorw the grain you feed on;<,br> And you will starve among us, if you stay.

    But oh, in April, from some balmier cimate
    Come back to use, be with usin the spring!
    If we can learn to gow the graini you feed on,
    YOu might be happy here; might even sing.


    Quite a love song to the dove. Or could it be a metaphor for something else?

    hats
    August 25, 2006 - 07:16 am
    MarjV thank you for link and the poem. The link is very interesting.

    annafair
    August 25, 2006 - 07:27 am
    Well it seems sometimes it is just one thing after another. twenty years ago I had an episode with something called labrythitis ( not sure of the spelling) which I understood was a viral infection of the inner ear. I would no wish this on my worse enemy as the vertigo associated with it makes you feel you are falling into the universe, Well it paid me another visit this week and I was in the Er for about 8 hours while they determined it was not anything serious., I knew that since was told with the initial problem if you can just go to sleep it will pass..of course keeping your eyes closed is essential ..it did take a good day to begin to feel normal >>that makes me smile since I think I am probably not normal!

    I am so glad to be here today and read all the great posts and thoughts..Anne Arden you are really a most welcome poster here and enjoy your holiday and we will be discussing Whitman when you return.

    Like everyone ESVM poetry about nature just resonates with me..but her personal poems about herself always makes me ponder..which is not bad is it? good for our minds.

    I always loved poetry but until I began writing it myself I never truly appreciated the world around me. Well I did but once you allow that muse in the whole world opens to you ..and now I feel I see clearly what I only saw dimly.

    The poem I chose today spoke to me ..in it ESVM seems to be seeing a loved person from her past ..and I often feel just out of my sight I see my husband..walking down the hall, disappearing around a corner, I welcome him it makes me feel he is looking out for me even though he is no longer here.

    Hopefully I am free from any further problems! Here is the poem I am posting today ....

    The Little Ghost


    I knew her for a little ghost
    That in my garden walked;
    The wall is high -- higher than most --
    And the green gate was locked.


    And yet I did not think of that
    Till after she was gone --
    I knew her by the broad white hat,
    All ruffled, she had on.


    By the dear ruffles round her feet,
    By her small hands that hung
    In their lace mitts, austere and sweet,
    Her gown's white folds among.


    I watched to see if she would stay,
    What she would do -- and oh!
    She looked as if she liked the way
    I let my garden grow!


    She bent above my favourite mint
    With conscious garden grace,
    She smiled and smiled -- there was no hint
    Of sadness in her face.


    She held her gown on either side
    To let her slippers show,
    And up the walk she went with pride,
    The way great ladies go.


    And where the wall is built in new
    And is of ivy bare
    She paused -- then opened and passed through
    A gate that once was there.


    Edna St Vincent Millay

    Alliemae
    August 25, 2006 - 02:01 pm
    I don't know why I read this poem the way I did...it kind of just 'happened'.

    I have been on a 'journey' this summer 'inside myself' I would say,so maybe that's why...

    I saw in this poem that Millay (or was it me?) was watching her 'little girl self' in all her purity and hope for the future of a 'lady' and sweetness, and she loved this little girl.

    Everything in the poem is of beauty, of gentleness and of hope...even to at the end where the little one chooses the 'old' door or 'her perfect days'.

    These last lines are so very telling:

    And up the walk she went with pride,
    The way great ladies go.

    And where the wall is built in new
    And is of ivy bare
    She paused -- then opened and passed through
    A gate that once was there.



    Isn't it wonderful to love the child within yourself that much and trust her/him that much that you can let them take their own door with pride simply ignoring that sometimes there are new things in life that are "of ivy bare"

    I loved this poem. Thank you anna...

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    August 25, 2006 - 02:05 pm
    Thou art not lovelier than lilacs, - no,
    Nor honeysuckle; thou art not more fair
    Than small white single poppies, - I can bear
    Thy beauty; though I bend before thee, though
    From left to right, not knowing where to go,
    I turn my troubled eyes, nor here nor there
    Find any refuge from thee, yet I swear
    So has it been with mist, - with moonlight so.

    Like him who day by day unto his draught
    Of delicate poison adds him one drop more
    Till he may drink unharmed the death of ten,
    Even so, inured to beauty, who have quaffed
    Each hour more deeply than the hour before,
    I drink - and live - what has destroyed some men.

    "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    "I drink - and live - what has destroyed some men." Here the poet compares the object of affection, if we can call it that, to various flowers, but not in a favorable way. She associates it more with poison which she has drank and lived, but know has destroyed some men. I'm not sure that I would have wanted to be compared so, if I were in love with this poet.

    annafair
    August 25, 2006 - 02:58 pm
    I love your interpretation of the poem I posted about The Little Ghost which makes more sense since she is describing A "Little' ghost.It is wonderful to see yourself as you used to be ...or in my case to see my loved one as he used to be..I think I kept interpretating it as a gentle ghost which would apply to my husband . but in any case the ghosts are welcomed. They are not fearful but ones we see and feel glad they once were there.

    "She associates it more with poison which she has drank and lived, but know has destroyed some men. I'm not sure that I would have wanted to be compared so, if I were in love with this poet." Your comment made me laugh out loud because I have thought this about several of ESVM's poems....anna

    MarjV
    August 25, 2006 - 04:07 pm
    Alliemae - I love how your looked at that poem. I didn't even think in that direction. That's a good take on it. Thanks for writing about it.

    All I had come to so far was that maybe it was sort of like a story to tell a child.

    hats
    August 26, 2006 - 01:19 am
    Alliemae thank you for giving your interpretation of the poem. I never would have thought about it in that way either. From the beginning I reacted to the gentle delicateness and beauty of the poem. I just didn't know what it meant. Thank you.

    annafair
    August 26, 2006 - 02:36 am
    Will I complain when winter is here and his frosty breath congeals
    the vapor on my window glass and makes lace patterns there?
    Will I remember how I wailed and waited for this heated summer to end ?
    Most likely,,,but that is what I wish this Saturday at five am ..
    Just a few lines to say how I feel and to share a poem by our poet..Hope everyone is cooler than here...anna

    Edna St. Vincent Millay
    Love is not all: it is not meat nor drink
    Nor slumber nor a roof against the rain;
    Nor yet a floating spar to men that sink
    And rise and sink and rise and sink again;
    Love can not fill the thickened lung with breath,
    Nor clean the blood, nor set the fractured bone;
    Yet many a man is making friends with death
    Even as I speak, for lack of love alone.
    It well may be that in a difficult hour,
    Pinned down by pain and moaning for release,
    Or nagged by want past resolution's power,
    I might be driven to sell your love for peace,
    Or trade the memory of this night for food.
    It well may be. I do not think I would.


    Here is sounds like to Millay LOVE IS ALL. Since we are analyzing I wonder if true love was what she really wanted and not just some brief affair? Can I hope it was the former?

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 26, 2006 - 09:58 am
    So many goodies - will miss Anne Arden however I can just imagine the wonderful time she will be having on her vacation. Marj thanks for the link to teaching Millay - I found that link to be superb and the lovely addition of links to other poets was great. Been busy busy busy - and so I am reading but have not had time to search for a poem to share - must run again - just thought I would stick my nose in for a minute...

    Scrawler
    August 26, 2006 - 12:57 pm
    Time does not bring relief; you all have lied
    Who told me time would ease me of my pain!
    I miss him in the weeping of the rain;
    I want him at the shrinking of the tide;
    The old snows melt from every mountain-side,
    And last year's leaves are smoke in every lane;
    But last year's bitter loving must remain
    Heaped on my heart and my old thoughts abide!

    There are a hundred places where I fear
    To go, - so with his memory they brim!
    And entering with relief some quiet place
    Where never fell his foot or shone his face
    I say, "There is no memory of him here!"
    And so stand stricken, so remembering him!

    "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    I posted this earlier in another discussion, but it seems to me it applies here as well: "Conditioned existence often means living a life of superficial habits and compulsions. To some extent, that's how most of us live. Controlled by our psychological patterns (our internal conditioning) we are hostages to unconscious drives, needs, and impulses. We stay in jobs we hate; we repetitively choose relationships that are hurtful. We don't know how to to break habits that are self-defeating; we don't know how to change patterns that are misguided; we don't know how to find better, more creatively satisfying ways of being. That's unconscious behavior and that's conditioned existence." ~ Lama Surya Das

    To me the poet continuely seems to be in a state of unconscious behavior or conditioned existence. I can't help feel that Millay was doing exactly this in her search for happiness.

    annafair
    August 27, 2006 - 10:10 am
    This poem resonates with me ...and it is one that I can relate too since it is what I said after my husband died,.and the realization that it was permanent that I had to make new memories or as I said the old ones would destroy me..I had to go places ( the computer which I didnt have when he was alive ) where there was no memory of being there with him..I once returned to a house in NC we rented just to see but it didnt seem to look the same and for some reason that did not make me feel better It was as if I wanted to say HOW DARE IT BE DIFFERENT..which showed me I was right to stay away from places we visited I only go in memory because then he is still there ,

    I dont have a poem right now since I have spent it seems hours and I really dont know how long it took me to read the whole of the discussion on The Savage Beauty I had forgotten we had discussed in depth Millay's life and recognized her problems and I read something I wrote there .That she was who she was because of her life. and she spent her own life searching for the person who she could have and should have been...Somewhere I have stated I can forgive poets almost any thing because they ( and other people who have given us beauty through thier art) have looked at the world and given us something special. I cant believe this month is nearly over. Each time when it nears the end I feel so sad to leave the poet behind but for me and hopefully for all who come here ..each month is well spent ..we have learned much not only from the works of the poet we discuss but from what we share here. This is better than if we were a group meeting in our homes. There we would have distractions. Here we can come any hour , in any attire, fresh from a shower if we wish , wrapped in a towel, sans makeup, and across time and space meet.We save gas in our car, we can bring a cup of tea or not, have a cookie or health bar, seasons are not important , the only thing that can keep us away is if we lose electricity and our computer is down..there is a song that is tickling my mind and I dont know the title or who sang it but there is something about What a wonderful world this is ..and we have found it here.. have a great day ..anna

    BaBi
    August 27, 2006 - 11:29 am
    I think it was posted earlier here, too, Scrawler. Which is okay; there have been others posted more than once, as they catch someone's eye and attention. Sonnet II certainly does.

    Babi

    Scrawler
    August 27, 2006 - 12:54 pm
    Still must the poet of old,
    In barren attic bleak and cold,
    Starve, freeze, and fashion verses to
    Such things as flowers and song and you;

    Still as of old his being give
    In Beauty's name, while she may live,
    Beauty that may not die as long
    As there are flowers and you and song.



    "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    I too would like to think that as I starve and freeze in my attic creating beautiful verses about flowers and song that these verses will live on well after I am gone.

    annafair
    August 27, 2006 - 06:20 pm
    Just thinking of some poems I have read by anonymous ..who saved them from being lost ? and how many poems have never been read but by those who wrote the verse?

    I found another website with some of Millays poems and share one from there//anna I havent had time to really digest this poem All I know it makes me feel sad Perhaps Nothing lasts? We all need a dream ? my mind is tired I think and tired of this summer's heat but will it be better in winters cold?

    THE LEAF AND THE TREE


    When will you learn, myself, to be
    A dying leaf on a living tree?
    Budding, swelling, growing strong,
    Wearing green, but not for long,
    Drawing sustenance from air,
    That other leaves, and you not there,
    May bud, and at the autumn's call
    Wearing russet, ready to fall?
    Has not this trunk a deed to do
    Unguessed by small and tremulous you?
    Shall not these branches in the end
    To wisdom and the truth ascend?
    And the great lightning plunging by
    Look sidewise with a golden eye
    To glimpse a tree so tall and proud
    It sheds its leaves upon a cloud?


    Here, I think, is the heart's grief:
    The tree, no mightier than the leaf,
    Makes firm its root and spreads it crown
    And stands; but in the end comes down.
    That airy top no boy could climb


    Is trodden in a little time
    By cattle on their way to drink
    . The fluttering thoughts a leaf can think,
    That hears the wind and waits its turn,
    Have taught it all a tree can learn.
    Time can make soft that iron wood.
    The tallest trunk that ever stood,
    In time, without a dream to keep,
    Crawls in beside the root to sleep.




    ESVM

    Mallylee
    August 28, 2006 - 02:57 am
    There are a hundred places where I fear To go, -

    This is how I feel about going back to places I have known and loved. I fear to go because of the ghosts of my dead people. IO tried it once. Never again!

    Mallylee
    August 28, 2006 - 03:00 am
    Annafair, I do like the pholosophy in the poem The Leaf and the Tree.

    I can often feel happy that everything is transient, even me and my memories

    Alliemae
    August 28, 2006 - 06:44 am
    Sorry I've been AWOL but have been having some health situations come up which needed and still need (at least for only this week I HOPE!) my rather full attention.

    I was so warmed by all of your responses to my posts about the 'Little Ghost' it truly was a great beacon of light to what was a most dismal time. Blessings to all of you!

    I will be back soon and can't wait for the new poet for September. Do we know who that is yet? Oh, I do hope someone cheerful...even funny...Ogden Nash anyone??? (Oh...he did limericks, didn't he?)

    Hugs to all, Alliemae

    annafair
    August 28, 2006 - 07:52 am
    Perhaps we just ought to post an NASH poem when the poet we are discussing makes us feel bleak. Walt Whitman will be our September poet and Ted Kooser our October poet. Off hand I cant think of a funny poet ..perhaps unless they are sad, serious etc no one takes them seriously I have a few that are funny and if I can find the disc where located I will share them...so glad you are here and Mallylee Believe me when I say you are missed when you are away. anna

    Scrawler
    August 28, 2006 - 02:26 pm
    Cut if you will, with Sleep's dull knife,
    Each day to half its length my friend,-
    The years that Time takes off my life
    He'll take from off the other end!

    "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    It does seem at times that my days are cut in half sometimes.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 28, 2006 - 08:21 pm
    my days may not be cut in half but here of late I notice my energy is sure cut in half...

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 28, 2006 - 09:04 pm
    Ogdan Nash was a great humorist but for me the funniest lines were written by Dylan Thomas in his story poem "A Child's Christmas in Wales."

    "Fire!" cried Mrs. Prothero, and she beat the dinner-gong.

    And we ran down the garden, with the snowballs in our arms, toward the house; and smoke, indeed, was pouring out of the dining-room, and the gong was bombilating, and Mrs. Prothero was announcing ruin like a town crier in Pompeii. This was better than all the cats in Wales standing on the wall in a row. We bounded into the house, laden with snowballs, and stopped at the open door of the smoke-filled room.

    Something was burning all right; perhaps it was Mr. Prothero, who always slept there after midday dinner with a newspaper over his face. But he was standing in the middle of the room, saying, "A fine Christmas!" and smacking at the smoke with a slipper.

    "Call the fire brigade," cried Mrs. Prothero as she beat the gong.

    "There won't be there," said Mr. Prothero, "it's Christmas." There was no fire to be seen, only clouds of smoke and Mr. Prothero standing in the middle of them, waving his slipper as though he were conducting.

    "Do something," he said. And we threw all our snowballs into the smoke - I think we missed Mr. Prothero - and ran out of the house to the telephone box.

    "Let's call the police as well," Jim said. "And the ambulance." "And Ernie Jenkins, he likes fires."

    But we only called the fire brigade, and soon the fire engine came and three tall men in helmets brought a hose into the house and Mr. Prothero got out just in time before they turned it on. Nobody could have had a noisier Christmas Eve. And when the firemen turned off the hose and were standing in the wet, smoky room, Jim's Aunt, Miss. Prothero, came downstairs and peered in at them. Jim and I waited, very quietly, to hear what she would say to them. She said the right thing, always. She looked at the three tall firemen in their shining helmets, standing among the smoke and cinders and dissolving snowballs, and she said, "Would you like anything to read?"


    I just love that scene and the humor of it all - dingy Miss Prothero and inaffective Mr. Prothero and their name -- Prot-hero -- or maybe even with more of an emphasis P-rot-hero - I have a good laugh everytime I read this bit...and then of course I want to read the entire story since there are so many wonderful moments that deserve a laugh and a chuckle.

    Wind in the Willows is a delight but does not make me laugh and I smile reading many of the poems by Service but no laugh - Dylan with his bombastic story makes me laugh.

    annafair
    August 29, 2006 - 10:20 am
    It was quite a scene and like many since nothing serious seemed to have happened looking at through the words and eyes of the writer yes it does make you smile ...I am sure looking back at that scene the author laughed as well.

    I hope those of you who like me are wedded to the air conditioner are well This area has a heat warning, which means we may have as much as 110 heat index..I am already drinking lots of water and am thankful I went out earlier this week for some supplies ..I can stay inside but I have to confess my get up and go seems to have gone.

    My oldest daughter has a web site and with my permission uses some of my poems Today she is using one I wrote after viewing a gorgeous rainbow and thought how wonderful if we could ride a rainbow,One of our first purchases when we finally had money we could spend on things other than necesseties was a telescope. I have always imagined myself in space , who knows why. She finds it joyous so I am going to share it with you..Perhaps you will find it joyous too.. anna

    Rainbow Colors


    come play with me among the stars
    we'll catch a comet by the tail
    race around the moon
    and when we're done
    slide down a rainbow
    through refractive light
    prismatic beauty disdains the night
    radiant colors arch to kiss earth
    stretch across a vaulted sky
    gently caress its dew drenched birth
    we will ride colored ribbons
    warm our souls in sunlit flight
    skip down the crimson path
    drink from orange mist fountains
    leapfrog 'cross the honeyed golden light
    rest awhile on emerald stairs
    dance on the azure tinged trail
    look for stars in the indigo stripe
    dream on violet velveted cushioned air
    balm for our earth wounded spirits
    beacons to guide us through
    our restless yearnings
    we'll whirl through space
    land we know not where
    but oh the joy when we are there


    anna alexander
    3/1/98
    all rights reserved

    hats
    August 29, 2006 - 10:39 am
    RAINBOW COLORS is a fun poem, I think, Anna. I love it. It seems like a fantasy, one I would want to come true.

    we'll whirl through space
    land we know not where
    but oh the joy when we are there


    I like the "emerald stairs" too.

    MarjV
    August 29, 2006 - 11:21 am
    I agree, Hats.

    And I quite like this: "beacons to guide us through our restless yearnings"

    Sometimes , I admit, I don't quite find the beacon; other times I do.

    Scrawler
    August 29, 2006 - 02:13 pm
    Was it for this I uttered prayers
    And sobbed and cursed and kicked the stairs,
    That now, domestic as a plate,
    I should retire at half-past eight?



    "The Selected Poetry of Edna St. Vincent Millay"

    This little poem I think has some humor in it. Can you imagine Millay doing this as a child?

    BaBi
    August 29, 2006 - 04:37 pm
    ANNA, I especially liked these lines from your post:

    Has not this trunk a deed to do 
    Unguesed by small and tremulous you?


    From time to time, I find it helpful to remind myself that I really don't know everything that's involved in the issues of life, and that trusting God would be an excellent option.

    Babi

    BaBi
    August 29, 2006 - 04:40 pm
    I don't know why it is, but every time I use font to highlight a quote, the rest of my post comes out extra-large. ?????

    Babi

    annafair
    August 29, 2006 - 05:12 pm
    To me that is one of the mysteries of the computer and cybernet! I often do things that I think I have done before on my computer and petulantly it decides to do something different >>If it were a child I would say DONT DO THAT AGAIN but my computer has a mind of its own...

    Scrawler I read that little poem you posted and like you was amazed but I think she was expressing herself well. Here she was doing grown up things since her mother wasnt there and still she had to behave as a child would do.

    And Babi that is a good line from the poem I posted. Sort of reminds us we cant do things alone. The leaves would not be there except for the tree and the tree would never have been fulfilled if there were no leaves. It would be like many living their lives unfulfilled ...

    Thanks for the compliments re my poem..It was a joyous day when I wrote it and reading it again reminds me to look for the good in all things ..or I will miss a lot of joy...anna

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 29, 2006 - 10:39 pm
    "but oh the joy when we are there" I can see an animated movie made of some lovable figures gleefully riding in the sky --

    annafair
    August 30, 2006 - 04:28 am
    Your imagination is wonderful ..just reading what you wrote made me see it too...

    We have almost come to the end of this month's discussion. Funny I expected it to be different. Her poems that I recalled from when I was young filled me with such wonder and like God's World I could not hold them close enough. The poet and woman we found here was quite different from what I expected. There was so much sorrow in her poetry that surprised me . reading her biography showed me why.

    Tomorrow night late I will post a poem by Walt Whitman. provided the residue from Ernesto doesnt keep be from doing so.HEAVY thunderstorms are predicted here for the rest of the week so if you dont see me I will be sitting in front of a dark computer waiting for a break in the promised storms..

    Here is my choice for today ..September is upon us , Autumm days will come and just behind for good or bad ..winter will be here ..and so this poem seems just right .. I rather like this one...anna



    THE SNOW STORM


    No hawk hangs over in this air:
    The urgent snow is everywhere.
    The wing adroiter than a sail
    Must lean away from such a gale,
    Abandoning its straight intent,
    Or else expose tough ligament
    And tender flesh to what before
    Meant dampened feathers, nothing more.
    Forceless upon our backs there fall
    Infrequent flakes hexagonal
    Devised in many a curious style
    To charm our safety for a while,
    Where close to earth like mice we go
    Under the horizontal snow.




    Edna St. Vincent Millay

    Scrawler
    August 30, 2006 - 11:42 am
    Oh, loveliest throat of all sweet throats,
    Where now no more the music is,
    With hands that wrote you little notes
    I write you little elegies!

    One has to wonder who D.C. was.

    MarjV
    August 30, 2006 - 01:55 pm
    Love that snow poem!!!!!

    These lines elicited a big smile:
    Infrequent flakes hexagonal
    Devised in many a curious style
    To charm our safety for a while,
    Where close to earth like mice we go
    Under the horizontal snow

    Makes me think of big snow days where like a mouse I stay close to earth (in the house) and watch!

    MarjV
    August 30, 2006 - 01:55 pm
    Perhaps that was one of her close female friends from the life at VAssar in Scrawler's poem.

    BaBi
    August 30, 2006 - 03:53 pm
    I took my book out on the front porch for a while this morning. It was a beautiful morning, not hot at all, with a pleasant breeze. Ah, thank goodness for fall after summer; for spring after winter!

    Babi

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    August 31, 2006 - 09:16 am
    As we come to the end - I do not remember if we read this one or not - however, it seems fitting as one of the ending poems from Millay -

    Ashes of Life

    Love has gone and left me and the days are all alike;
    Eat I must, and sleep I will, -- and would that night were here!
    But ah! -- to lie awake and hear the slow hours strike!
    Would that it were day again! -- with twilight near!

    Love has gone and left me and I don't know what to do;
    This or that or what you will is all the same to me;
    But all the things that I begin I leave before I'm through, --
    There's little use in anything as far as I can see.

    Love has gone and left me, -- and the neighbors knock and borrow,
    And life goes on forever like the gnawing of a mouse, --
    And to-morrow and to-morrow and to-morrow and to-morrow
    There's this little street and this little house.

    annafair
    August 31, 2006 - 08:05 pm
    Your post was such a perfect poem to end our discussion I refrained from adding another. I am posting my first offering by Whitman and may because of Ernesto be delayed in posting another until this has passed us by..Thunderstorms and torrential rain and flooding is predicted for my area. So if you dont see me here I will return asap..Here is the poem I chose ..because I feel as a person who is becoming deaf I too HEAR AMERICA SINGING...I love this poem because it is how I see it ..well it was that way when I was growing up and traveled with my aunt and uncle on thier vacations...I wish we all could hear this song..hope you all have a great day and no problems weatherwise or otherwise.. anna

    I Hear America Singing


    I HEAR America singing, the varied carols I hear;
    Those of mechanics--each one singing his, as it should be, blithe and strong;
    The carpenter singing his, as he measures his plank or beam,
    The mason singing his, as he makes ready for work, or leaves off work;
    The boatman singing what belongs to him in his boat--the deckhand singing on the steamboat deck;
    The shoemaker singing as he sits on his bench--the hatter singing as he stands;
    The wood-cutter's song--the ploughboy's, on his way in the morning,
    or at the noon intermission, or at sundown;
    The delicious singing of the mother--or of the young wife at work--or
    of the girl sewing or washing--Each singing what belongs to
    her, and to none else;
    The day what belongs to the day--At night, the party of young
    fellows, robust, friendly,
    Singing, with open mouths, their strong melodious songs.


    Walt Whitman

    hats
    September 1, 2006 - 12:33 am
    Hi Anna

    I am glad you started with "I Hear America Singing" by Walt Whitman. It gives a feeling that all individuals have something to give of themselves to America. Each person has a different role. Still, every role is needed to make America great.

    One of our family friend's was a carpenter. His lankiness, the carpenter pencil behind his ear, his uniform, his cap, his whole body and what he wore made us think of him as only a carpenter. His work was his voice, his personality.

    We memorized poems in school, not this one. I think this one would have been great to memorize.

    hats
    September 1, 2006 - 12:36 am
    Thank you for ending with "Ashes of Life" by ESVM. It's a sad poem. I am sure many people can relate to it. I can relate to it. I love the last few verses. There are days when life seems "endless." Thank goodness our whole life is not that way.

    Love has gone and left me, -- and the neighbors knock and borrow,
    And life goes on forever like the gnawing of a mouse, --
    And to-morrow and to-morrow and to-morrow and to-morrow
    There's this little street and this little house.

    hats
    September 1, 2006 - 12:38 am
    I just wanted to say a few tiny words about Barbara's last Millay poem. Too busy to come in yesterday.

    MarjV
    September 1, 2006 - 05:27 am
    "I hear...." reminds me that I am singing also. Each of our daily songs is a melody for ourself and others (whether they realize it or not) - Whitman sure did.

    hats
    September 1, 2006 - 06:26 am
    MarjV that's what I think too. I like the way you have written it.

    Alliemae
    September 1, 2006 - 07:14 am
    I feel so privileged to be in the company of ALL of you, contributions on this page and all the previous pages I have comforted myself with while going through this brief (thank God!) period of health concerns.

    I have never met a more wonderful group of folks in one space before as I have since I have found SeniorNet and ESPECIALLY in this Poetry Forum.

    Barbara what a perfect 'last poem' from our time with ESVM. It certainly resonates, doesn't it...I was touched also, as Hats with the ending of the poem, and what I found the truest of all was this, "And to-morrow and to-morrow and to-morrow and to-morrow
    There's this little street and this little house."

    Isn't that truly the way life is...we travel through our lives, some of us to only nearby and others to far-off lands and each having our very own experiences and the bottom line is, 'wherever I go, there I am!' and that is what the line above reminds me of.

    Anna I am thrilled that you began our Walt Whitman month with "I Hear America Singing" and I agree with Marj (as I so frequently seem to do...)" 'I hear....' reminds me that I am singing also. Each of our daily songs is a melody for ourself and others (whether they realize it or not)..."

    The two phrases that actually brought tears to my eyes were: "the varied carols I hear;" and "Each singing what belongs to her, and to none else;"

    I really believe that at the end of the day...if each one of us is diligent and caring and hopeful enough, this country will return to being truly, "...One Nation, Indivisible..." as we began.

    Lastly, but certainly NOT least, I want to thank all of you for your prayers, positive and caring thoughts as I went through the past couple of weeks...all of my test results have turned out negative for abnormalities for which I thank the Almighty and which I am happy to share with all of you. I feel the same as BaBi when she said, "Ah, thank goodness for fall after summer; for spring after winter!

    With my affection and gratitude to each member of this group,

    Alliemae

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 1, 2006 - 07:36 am
    I hope you are singing Alliemae - as much as your melody is part of this group it must be a boon to everyone you meet - and to sing aloud to me is only renewing our lives as an important part of the harmony we call home, family, neighborhood, community and on to the universe.

    I am also wondering if when Whitman wrote this poem if it was still natural for folks to sing while they work - there would have been no radio or other mechanical way to keep the rhythm for a job going unless you hummed, whistled or sang some sort of work song if only a spiritual.

    Alliemae
    September 1, 2006 - 08:11 am
    Yes...actually I AM singing this morning...even inside myself!

    And so uncanny you mentioned the above. It's happening here in my home now but I didn't notice the correlation until you put it into words...I elected this morning to NOT have the TV music or radio on and maybe that's why my body and my mind are 'humming'...the only thing I hear are the quiet sounds of my apartment environment and the muffled sounds of the contractors working outside the apartment building and across the street. I'm glad you pointed that out!

    Allie

    Scrawler
    September 1, 2006 - 09:02 am
    A newer garden of creation, no primal solitude,
    Dense, joyous, modern, populous millions, cities and farms,
    With iron interlaced, composite, tied, many in one,
    By all the world contributed - freedom's and law's and
    thrift's society,
    The crown and teeming paradise, so far, of time's
    accumulations,
    To justify the past.

    ~ "Leaves of Grass" (1891-92)

    As with "I hear America singing" "The Prairie States" as an uplifting quality to it that I didn't hear in Millay's poems.

    MarjV
    September 1, 2006 - 11:02 am
    Alliemae - so glad to hear the good news about your tests. And you are defnitely a "song" to our gathering here. Rah!!!!!

    ~Marj

    MarjV
    September 1, 2006 - 12:21 pm
    British Editions of Leaves of Grass

    Walt Whitman has been, and continues to be, used by different people for different purposes, both in America and abroad. As Ed Folsom and Gay Wilson Allen argue, Whitman's writing outside of America "undertakes a different kind of cultural work than it performs in the United States" (2). This site aims to introduce readers of Whitman to the kinds of cultural work the quintessentially American bard was made to perform in nineteenth-century England. During Whitman's lifetime, two major editions of Leaves of Grass were published in England by different editors with different goals: the Pre-Raphaelite William Michael Rossetti aimed to deliver Whitman to the British upper classes; and the Welsh socialist Ernest Rhys tried to bring Whitman to working-class Brits.

    http://www.whitmanarchive.org/works/british/index.html

    Alliemae
    September 1, 2006 - 02:06 pm
    I so agree!! I was especially taken by "freedom's and law's and thrift's society,...", the America I was raised to know and love and which, for me, really displays our uniqueness as a nation.

    Thanks, Scrawler!

    And now to go and enjoy Marj's link!

    Alliemae

    annafair
    September 1, 2006 - 09:10 pm
    I am sure not all of Whitman's poetry will be uplifting but we have certainly found some good ones to start with .. Like the ones already chosen I have a brief one to share today It says all I would say about my childhood visits to my dear Aunt Nora and Uncle Reed when they retired to the country . It was not an idle retirement they basked in being country folk with gardens and pastures , chickens , cows and a horse and they gave me,. a city child some of the lovliest memories and this poem says it all.. anna

    A Farm-Picture


    THROUGH the ample open door of the peaceful country barn,
    A sun-lit pasture field, with cattle and horses feeding;
    And haze, and vista, and the far horizon, fading away.


    Walt Whitman

    hats
    September 2, 2006 - 06:56 am
    I find Walt Whitman's Civil War poems very moving. These poems fit our time too. Reading these poems are a reminder of the heroic soldiers fighting for us daily.

    A Sight in Camp In The Daybreak Gray and Dim

    A sight in camp in the daybreak gray and
    dim,
    As from my tent I emerge so early
    sleepless,
    As slow I walk in the cool fresh air the
    path near by the hospital tent,
    Three forms I see on stretchers lying,
    brought out there untended lying,
    Over each the blanket spread, ample
    brownish woolen blanket,
    Gray and heavy blanket, folding, covering
    all.


    To be continued

    hats
    September 2, 2006 - 07:00 am
    Curious I halt and silent stand,
    Then with light fingers I from the face of
    the nearest the first just life the
    blanket;
    Who are you elderly man so gaunt and
    grim, with well-gray'd hair, and flesh
    all sunken about the eyes?
    Who are you my dear comrade?
    Then to the second I step--and who are
    you my child and darling?
    Who are you sweet boy with cheeks yet
    blooming?


    To be continued

    hats
    September 2, 2006 - 07:09 am
    Then to the third--a face nor child
    nor old, very calm, as of beautiful
    yellow-white ivory;
    Young man I think I know you--I think
    this face is the face of the Christ
    himself,
    Dead and divine and brother of all, and
    here again he lies.


    Walt Whitman

    MarjV
    September 2, 2006 - 09:03 am
    In reference to the poem posted by Hats, one of the bios I read told how Whitman physically cared for soldiers in hospitals - the exact . This poem above surely came from his heart and experience.

    Here is one of the online articles that talks about Whitman as a nurse. Amazing. Make sure to scroll down to the article.

    Whitman as "nurse"

    hats
    September 2, 2006 - 10:18 am
    MarjV, thank you for the link.

    mabel1015j
    September 2, 2006 - 11:06 am
    In June my husband and i and our dear friend Barbara Irvine and her husband - BI is the Exec Dir of the the NJ Trust that provides grants for historic preservation - visited WW's Camden house. It was a most interesting tour. They start the tour at the Camden waterfront since being near rivers was always a part of WW's life.

    If you are ever in Philadelphia, Camden is just across the BEn Franklin bridge. If you are a fan of WW's you might enjoy the tour of Camden, his house and his elaborate mausoleum - which he designed for his family. The NJ Park Service runs the tour and takes care of his house and there is usually a WW impersonator to talk with the tourists. The house has much of his furniture in it, very Victorian and interesting from an architectual point of view also.......jean

    mabel1015j
    September 2, 2006 - 11:09 am
    on how WW's poetry differed from what went before and what makes him so important in American poetry history?.......I'm sure i studied that in college, but that was eons ago, i need a refresher course.......jean

    Alliemae
    September 2, 2006 - 12:30 pm
    I chose my poem (below, beneath my comments on Hats' beautiful and touching selection) at first sight because of its title and the fact that today is my youngest grandson's 2nd birthday, not realizing the deeper content until after I had read it. I still liked it. I decided to stay with my choice.

    And then I got to our room and read the poem contributed by Hats.

    As annafair has said, "I am sure not all of Whitman's poetry will be uplifting..."

    I see in these poems, which could be sad, that WW puts what we, in these days, would call a 'positive spin' on his poems of reality. I think 'positive spin' is too light and maybe even flippant a term but use it to save the tedium of my comments.

    In "A Sight in Camp In The Daybreak Gray and Dim" I saw hope.

    I was immensely touched by these lines and agree with Hats, that "These poems fit our time too. Reading these poems are a reminder of the heroic soldiers fighting for us daily."

    I especially loved these lines...

    "Young man I think I know you--I think
    this face is the face of the Christ
    himself,
    Dead and divine and brother of all, and
    here again he lies.

    Here is my selection:

    A child said, What is the grass?

    A child said, What is the grass? fetching it to me with full
    hands;
    How could I answer the child?. . . .I do not know what it
    is any more than he.

    I guess it must be the flag of my disposition, out of hopeful
    green stuff woven.

    Or I guess it is the handkerchief of the Lord,
    A scented gift and remembrancer designedly dropped,
    Bearing the owner's name someway in the corners, that we
    may see and remark, and say Whose?

    Or I guess the grass is itself a child. . . .the produced babe
    of the vegetation.

    Or I guess it is a uniform hieroglyphic,
    And it means, Sprouting alike in broad zones and narrow
    zones,
    Growing among black folks as among white,
    Kanuck, Tuckahoe, Congressman, Cuff, I give them the
    same, I receive them the same.

    And now it seems to me the beautiful uncut hair of graves.

    Tenderly will I use you curling grass,
    It may be you transpire from the breasts of young men,
    It may be if I had known them I would have loved them;
    It may be you are from old people and from women, and
    from offspring taken soon out of their mother's laps,
    And here you are the mother's laps.

    This grass is very dark to be from the white heads of old
    mothers,
    Darker than the colorless beards of old men,
    Dark to come from under the faint red roofs of mouths.

    O I perceive after all so many uttering tongues!
    And I perceive they do not come from the roofs of mouths
    for nothing.

    I wish I could translate the hints about the dead young men
    and women,
    And the hints about old men and mothers, and the offspring
    taken soon out of their laps.

    What do you think has become of the young and old men?
    What do you think has become of the women and
    children?

    They are alive and well somewhere;
    The smallest sprouts show there is really no death,
    And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait
    at the end to arrest it,
    And ceased the moment life appeared.

    All goes onward and outward. . . .and nothing collapses,
    And to die is different from what any one supposed, and
    luckier.

    Walt Whitman

    ...and these last few lines give me great hope!

    "The smallest sprouts show there is really no death,
    And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait
    at the end to arrest it,
    And ceased the moment life appeared.

    All goes onward and outward. . . .and nothing collapses,
    And to die is different from what any one supposed, and
    luckier."

    Alliemae

    hats
    September 2, 2006 - 12:35 pm
    Alliemae thank you for your contribution. This is another stirring poem. I love the last few lines. This line in particular stays with me.

    "And to die is different from what any one supposed,"

    Scrawler
    September 2, 2006 - 12:37 pm
    What am I after all but a child, pleas'd with the sound of
    my own name? repeating it over and over;
    I stand apart to hear - it never tires me.

    To you your name also;
    Did you think there was nothing but two or three
    pronunciations in the sound of your name?

    " Whitman" "Leaves of Grass (1891-92)

    I think it is interesting that Whitman gives us little glimpses of himself and others.

    Alliemae
    September 2, 2006 - 12:47 pm
    Yes, I am also noticing this trait of Whitman's and it is interesting and I feel very comfortable so far with his awareness and the way he expresses it.

    I have a feeling we may find that Walt Whitman is definitely 'kin'.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    September 2, 2006 - 01:05 pm
    Interesting that Leaves of Grass is the title of his book and Alliemae has given us the poem about leaves of grass and analogies. I love every line of it. Needs more study by me than a quick cursory reading.

    And as to Scrawler's post - I'm saying my name many different ways !

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 2, 2006 - 02:59 pm
    He seems to not only see the wonder in himself but in everyone - he is not introspective to the exclusion of others which is the difference I think between Whitman and Millay.

    Knowing he spent 10 years tending the Civil War wounded gives me a picture of a man who cares about the least of us and sees his life as an opportunity to minister to the wounds of others while uplifting our spirit to the holy.

    Jim in Jeff
    September 2, 2006 - 03:21 pm
    Its "A" is difficult for me to stuff into just one online post. But here's a link to a webpage that says a WHOLE LOT about Whitman's unique "style": http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/LitNote/id-60,pageNum-57.html

    Also, he did stand the test of time, earning his "quintessential voice of 19th-century America" reputation, I think. "Free verse" poetry is also often said to become more accepted, due to WW using it so well.

    I too dimly recall discussing WW in classroom sessions. One feature (not his only one) that has stuck with me is his innovative(?) one-liner cadences that often go UP and then DOWN in rhythm/inflection. I mention this here mainly because, in class, we concluded that this was not really a new thing. I.E., the guy who translated "PSALMS" into King James english...often employed similar rhythm patterns.

    And, good Ladies & Gentlemen, Boys & Girls, pets & pet rocks...the Psalms are, in my humble definition, GREAT POETRY.

    But back to the issue at hand...I hope the info in the above link about WW's style helps explain why we today still rate him so highly.

    MarjV
    September 2, 2006 - 04:01 pm
    Just started reading that link, Jim. Thanks - it is excellent.

    Jim in Jeff
    September 2, 2006 - 04:34 pm
    MarjV (and others interested in WW's "style"):

    Don't miss clicking on the "Go to next page" links near bottom. There's several pages to this essay there. It'll finally end with a quiz (which I confess, BLUSHING, I chose to forego...for right now). But I might opt to try it toward end of this month, when I've learned a bit more about WW from posts here.

    annafair
    September 2, 2006 - 04:56 pm
    The poems you share and why . how the poetry affects you .how the poets affects you..I would have to make a written list to explain how much your thoughtful reading and understanding of WW

    I have read a lot of his poetry about the Civil War and his contribution to the care of those who fought and died ..Like all of you his poems are really not just about his life but we can see it applies to ours..

    And I love the fact he saw poetry as a spoken thing Because it is my deepest feeling poetry cries to be read aloud ..over the years I have been grateful that I had time to be alone and to read the words of the poets out loud ..no one heard me but the trees and the leave seemed to whisper back to me or the hills at my aunt and uncles home in the country would speak back to me the words I was reciting from memory out loud..When they leave the printed page and are spoken they seem new and fresh and whether it is a poem about yesterday or hundreds of years ago ..when I read them out loud I am one with the poet, the place and the time I hope I make sense I think everyone has something special to contribute ( and we have only just begun) but Barbara said it well

    "He seems to not only see the wonder in himself but in everyone - he is not introspective to the exclusion of others which is the difference I think between Whitman and Millay."

    "Knowing he spent 10 years tending the Civil War wounded gives me a picture of a man who cares about the least of us and sees his life as an opportunity to minister to the wounds of others while uplifting our spirit to the holy. "

    And thanks Jim for the link ..I appreciate the links .. some I have already read but like all good things it doesnt hurt to read them again...I will post later I have said so much already ..anna

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 2, 2006 - 10:59 pm
    I love this description from one of the pages of Jim's link...

    "Whitman emphasized individual virtue, which he believed would give rise to civic virtue. He aimed at improving the masses by first improving the individual," I wonder how many improved their ciric virtue because of his example and life choices - I sure like the idea of making a statement with your own behavior rather than speaking out about the behavior of others that we find less than admirable.

    The paragraph continues with more goodies -- "...thus becoming a true spiritual democrat. His idea of social and political democracy — that all men are equal before the law and have equal rights — is harmonized with his concept of spiritual democracy — that people have immense possibilities and a measureless wealth of latent power for spiritual attainment.

    In fact, he bore with the failings of political democracy primarily because he had faith in spiritual democracy, in creating and cultivating individuals who, through comradeship, would contribute to the ideal society. This view of man and society is part of Whitman’s poetic program."

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 2, 2006 - 11:13 pm
    This poem to me encapsulates all that the above paragraph explained about Whitman.

    A Song

    COME, I will make the continent indissoluble;
    I will make the most splendid race the sun ever yet shone upon;
    I will make divine magnetic lands,
    With the love of comrades,
    With the life-long love of comrades.

    I will plant companionship thick as trees along all the rivers of
    America, and along the shores of the great lakes, and all over
    the prairies;
    I will make inseparable cities, with their arms about each other's
    necks;
    By the love of comrades,
    By the manly love of comrades.

    For you these, from me, O Democracy, to serve you, ma femme!
    For you! for you, I am trilling these songs,
    In the love of comrades,
    In the high-towering love of comrades.

    hats
    September 3, 2006 - 01:51 am
    Jim, thank you for your link. I am learning and enjoying all the posts here. This is going to be a great month. Scrawler, your poem is short. Still, it is, I feel, heavy with meaning. For awhile, with that poem, I will hang onto MarjV's hem. Barbara, your poem is powerful! It's like the song "What The World Needs Now is Love" or Barbara Streisand's "People." I can hear her singing that song in my head. These are my very favorite lines on a first reading of the Walt Whitman poem.

    I will plant companionship thick as trees along all the rivers of
    America, and along the shores of the great lakes, and all over
    the prairies;
    I will make inseparable cities, with their arms about each other's
    necks;


    I think of the quilts made for the sick and heroes of our wars. Women applique or piece blocks from every city of the U.S. Then, all those blocks are sewn together to show a love for other people. As you know if you have seen one of these quilts, these quilts are huge.

    hats
    September 3, 2006 - 02:15 am
    The runaway slave came to my house and
    stopt outside,
    I heard his motions crackling the twigs of
    the woodpile,
    Through the swung half-door of the
    kitchen I saw him limpsy and weak,
    And went where he sat on a log and led
    him in and assured him,
    And brought water and fill'd a tub for his
    sweated body and bruis'd feet,
    And gave him a room that enter'd from
    my own, and gave him some coarse
    clean clothes,
    And remember perfectly well his revolving
    eyes and his awkwardness,
    And remember putting plasters on the
    galls of his neck and ankles;
    He staid with me a week before he was
    recuperated and pass'd north,
    I had him sit next me at table, my
    fire-lock lean'd in the corner.


    I have read often about slaves running away to freedom. That took a bunch of courage. If caught, the slave could suffer all sorts of punishment. However, in this poem, I feel focused on the kindness of the stranger. He not only takes the stranger, the runaway slave in, he also gives him special and kind treatment. The kind person endangers his life for a whole week by saving the life of another person. To take in a slave could lead to all sorts of troubles too.

    annafair
    September 3, 2006 - 03:01 am
    And love the choices made ...It is hard for me to choose one from the many ..I love his idea of comradeship among all , of helping each to be the best they can be..

    Today I chose one that once I had memorized .. The Civil War is over and we are still a nation, whole, bruised but whole and the President lies dead...I used to read this out loud and always wept. anna

    O Captain! My Captain!


    O CAPTAIN! my Captain! our fearful trip is done;
    The ship has weather'd every rack, the prize we sought is won;
    The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
    While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring:
    But O heart! heart! heart!
    O the bleeding drops of red,
    Where on the deck my Captain lies,
    Fallen cold and dead.


    O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;
    Rise up--for you the flag is flung--for you the bugle trills;
    For you bouquets and ribbon'd wreaths--for you the shores a-crowding;
    For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;
    Here Captain! dear father!
    This arm beneath your head;
    It is some dream that on the deck,
    You've fallen cold and dead.


    My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still;
    My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will;
    The ship is anchor'd safe and sound, its voyage closed and done;
    From fearful trip, the victor ship, comes in with object won;
    Exult, O shores, and ring, O bells!
    But I, with mournful tread,
    Walk the deck my Captain lies,
    Fallen cold and dead.


    Walt Whitman

    MarjV
    September 3, 2006 - 05:56 am
    Commenmt on "Song of Myself".......isn't that a beauty in it's description of the narrator "nursing" a runaway to bring him to wholeness!

    Scrawler
    September 3, 2006 - 04:23 pm
    Others may praise what they like;
    But I, from the banks of the running Missouri, praise
    nothing in art or aught else,
    Till it has well inhaled the atmosphere of this river, also the
    western praire-scent,
    And exudes it all again.

    ~ "Whitman" "Leaves of Grass" (1891-92)

    I assume by this that he would be a naturalist.

    Alliemae
    September 3, 2006 - 08:03 pm
    I'm not sure but this sounded to me like it was also based on President Lincoln, as was O Captain, My Captain (annafair). What do you all think?

    This Dust Was Once The Man

    THIS dust was once the Man,
    Gentle, plain, just and resolute--under whose cautious hand,
    Against the foulest crime in history known in any land or age,
    Was saved the Union of These States.

    Walt Whitman

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 3, 2006 - 08:16 pm
    To Him That Was Crucified

    MY spirit to yours, dear brother;
    Do not mind because many, sounding your name, do not understand you;
    I do not sound your name, but I understand you, (there are others
    also;)
    I specify you with joy, O my comrade, to salute you, and to salute
    those who are with you, before and since--and those to come
    also,
    That we all labor together, transmitting the same charge and
    succession;
    We few, equals, indifferent of lands, indifferent of times;
    We, enclosers of all continents, all castes--allowers of all
    theologies,
    Compassionaters, perceivers, rapport of men,
    We walk silent among disputes and assertions, but reject not the
    disputers, nor any thing that is asserted;
    We hear the bawling and din--we are reach'd at by divisions,
    jealousies, recriminations on every side,
    They close peremptorily upon us, to surround us, my comrade,
    Yet we walk unheld, free, the whole earth over, journeying up and
    down, till we make our ineffaceable mark upon time and the
    diverse eras,
    Till we saturate time and eras, that the men and women of races, ages
    to come, may prove brethren and lovers, as we are.

    Walt Whitman

    Alliemae

    hats
    September 3, 2006 - 11:44 pm
    Alliemae, "To Him That Was Crucified" by Walt Whitman. What a beautiful poem. The words come across in such a personal way. I might feel it's personal because, along with others, I have felt this very way. Thank you very much for posting it. It's another one I had not read.

    MY spirit to yours, dear brother;
    Do not mind because many, sounding your name, do not understand you;
    I do not sound your name, but I understand you, (there are others
    also;)

    annafair
    September 4, 2006 - 12:51 am
    You are right , a perfect poem for today ...Funny as I am getting reaquainted with Whitman and his poems I am feeling we should be posting them everywhere. He describes our country the way I feel ..and encourages us..." Till we saturate time and eras, that the men and women of races, ages to come, may prove brethren and lovers, as we are."


    I think I like the second verse of the poem I chose the best ..and that is hard to say since all of it speaks to me .... Here is the poem I chose for today .....

    A Song


    COME, I will make the continent indissoluble;
    I will make the most splendid race the sun ever yet shone upon;
    I will make divine magnetic lands,
    With the love of comrades,
    With the life-long love of comrades.


    I will plant companionship thick as trees along all the rivers of
    America, and along the shores of the great lakes, and all over the prairies;
    I will make inseparable cities, with their arms about each other's necks;
    By the love of comrades,
    By the manly love of comrades.


    For you these, from me, O Democracy, to serve you, ma femme!
    For you! for you, I am trilling these songs,
    In the love of comrades,
    In the high-towering love of comrades.


    Walt Whitman

    Alliemae
    September 4, 2006 - 07:44 am
    Sometimes while reading WW I get the feeling that he loves freedom the way that Neruda loved freedom for Chile...that FREEDOM is an entity...a being.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 4, 2006 - 07:53 am
    I have felt this way at certain times while observing things natural. The first thing that comes to mind is when I stood on the shores of Washington State looking out over the Straits of San Juan De Fueqa (SP?) and thinking how much better off we would all be as 'citizens of the world' if we truly looked at nature till some deep understanding enters our minds. All I could think was, the earth is not dying...life as we know it may be from our carelessness in our stewardship our our planet...but the Almighty and indeed, Mother Nature, are great. With one great shake and shudder we could all be removed at once from this planet we are killing and the earth would heal itself again. It was quite an overwhelming observation for me.

    Alliemae

    annafair
    September 4, 2006 - 07:53 am
    I think you are right and Neruda admired Whitman and sort of followed in Whitman's footsteps. Thinking about the kind of freedom shown here is an entity..it has heart and soul,. and faces ...anna

    MarjV
    September 4, 2006 - 08:53 am
    Alliemae wrote:With one great shake and shudder we could all be removed at once from this planet we are killing and the earth would heal itself again. It was quite an overwhelming observation for me.

    Isn't that so true. Your observation is wonderful Alli. Thanks.

    Just as grass turns brown and looks dead, the next season it revives and glows it's glorious green. Green, green, the color of hope and growth and a newness.

    Alliemae
    September 4, 2006 - 02:49 pm
    Hats This poem touched a core in me and I keep going back to it. Now that the holiday visiting is over I hope to read the rest of "Song of Myself"...such clear and pure compassion is so rare. This was a powerful poem for me...

    "COME, I will make the continent indissoluble;" (Barbara)

    Barbara, when I read this in WW's bibliography I had intended to post it...came in and saw you already had...I think we need this poet more than ever in these days!
    also Re: "I think of the quilts made for the sick and heroes of our wars..."I've never quilted before but what a wonderful idea. I do live in a Senior Apartment building and there are more than 200 of us here...I think I'll check and see if anyone is interesting in making one. Thanks for mentioning that.

    Marj re: ""Song of Myself".......isn't that a beauty in it's description of the narrator "nursing" a runaway to bring him to wholeness! " and re: my observation while looking over the Pacific. It came to me quite overwhelming also but left me with a calm I've only lost during briefs moments (like last week!!)...it was somehow very comforting.

    Hi Jim! good to see you...long time no see! And thank you so much for that link! It's so jam-packed full of wonderful things I want to read it again more slowly and carefully as I don't seem to retain thoughts unless I do that. But the paragraph below shows what I think I was attempting to explain about how WW's poetry enters my soul:

    "Imagery

    Imagery means a figurative use of language. Whitman’s use of imagery shows his imaginative power, the depth of his sensory perceptions, and "...his capacity to capture reality instantaneously. He expresses his impressions of the world in language which mirrors the present. He makes the past come alive in his images and makes the future seem immediate. Whitman’s imagery has some logical order on the conscious level, but it also delves into the subconscious, into the world of memories, producing a stream-of-consciousness of images. These images seem like parts of a dream, pictures of fragments of a world. On the other hand, they have solidity; they build the structure of the poems."

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    September 4, 2006 - 03:20 pm
    On my Northwest coast in the midst of the night a
    fishermen's group stands watching,
    Out on the lake that expands before them, others are
    spearing salmon,
    The canoe, a dim shadowy thing, moves across the black
    water,
    Bearing a torch ablaze at the prow.

    ~ "Whitman" "Leaves of Grass (1891-92) "Autum Rivulets"

    Once again Whitman gives a glimpse into the world other than his own. Do you suppose he was talking about the Indians as fisherman?

    hats
    September 5, 2006 - 02:33 am
    Scrawler, I can feel the dark stillness of the night. The quietness of the moving canoe makes the torch seem the most important part of the poem. For me, the focal point is "The Torch."

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 5, 2006 - 08:34 am
    sounds like the group of soldiers watching and with a torch going after Jesus in the Garden while others are taking their sustenance without stealth and intrigue.

    MarjV
    September 5, 2006 - 10:51 am
    "The Torch" is short and chock full of vivid imagery.

    Because of Whitman's imagery it is easy to forget the time frame (1800s) in which he was writing excewpt for the occasional out of date word.

    As Allimae quoted: expresses his impressions of the world in language which mirrors the present.

    MarjV
    September 5, 2006 - 10:54 am
    NOW! are you ready for this very sensual poem. It is a sure example of his love writing. I'm just putting the link to it as it is so long.

    From Pent-Up Aching Rivers

    annafair
    September 5, 2006 - 01:20 pm
    Marj I dont think I have read a poet from that time frame that seems to be so current ..Even when he uses words that seem a bit archaic I feel he is describing today's views ..and could I go to where he is speaking of ..I would remember what he wrote and say Oh Yes Oh Yes he had it right..

    I read the whole poem you posted the link to ,..although it was not the first time..and while he is plain speaking he makes love rapturous and real ,,

    I hurriedly chose one for today since we have a flood watch and thunderstorms AGAIN and I may not be able to do this later today..

    I SAW IN LOUISIANA A LIVE-OAK GROWING


    by: Walt Whitman (1819-1892)

    I SAW in Louisiana a live-oak growing,
    All alone stood it, and the moss hung down from the branches;
    Without any companion it grew there, uttering joyous leaves of dark green,
    And its look, rude, unbending, lusty, made me think of myself;
    But I wonder'd how it could utter joyous leaves, standing alone
    there, without its friend, its lover near--for I knew I could not;
    And broke off a twig with a certain number of leaves upon it, and twined around it a little moss,
    And brought it away--and I have placed it in sight in my room;
    It is not needed to remind me as of my own dear friends,
    (For I believe lately I think of little else than them:)
    Yet it remains to me a curious token--it makes me think of manly love;
    For all that, and though the live-oak glistens there in Louisiana,
    solitary, in a wide flat space,
    Uttering joyous leaves all its life, without a friend, a lover, near,
    I know very well I could not.

    Scrawler
    September 5, 2006 - 02:49 pm
    "As consequent from store of summer rains,
    Or wayward rivulets in autumn flowing,
    Or many a herb-lined brook's reticulations,
    Or subterranean sea-rills making for the sea,
    Songs of continued years I sing.

    Life's ever-modern rapids first, (soon, soon to blend,
    With the old streams of death.)

    Some threading Ohio's farm-fields or the woods
    Some down Colorado's canons from sources of perpetual
    snow,
    Some half-hid in Oregon, or away southward in Texas,
    Some in the north finding their way to Erie, Niagara,
    Ottawa,
    Some to Atlantica's bays, and so to the great salt brine.

    In you whoe'er you are my book perusing,
    In I myself, in all the world, these currents flowing,
    All, all toward the mystic ocean tending.

    Currents for starting a continent new,
    Overtures scent to the solid out of the liquid,
    Fusion of ocean and land, tender and pensive waves,
    (Not safe and peaceful only, waves rous'd and ominous too,
    Out of the depths the storm's abysmic waves, who knows
    whence?
    Raging over the vast, with many a broken spar and tatter'd
    sail.)

    Or from the sea of Time, collecting vasting all, I bring,
    A windrow-drift of weeds and shells,

    O little shells, so curious-convolute, so limpid-cold and
    voiceless,
    Will you not little shells to the tympans of temples held,
    Murmurs and echoes still call up, eternity's music faint and far,
    Wafted inland, sent from Atlantica's rim, strains for the soul
    of the prairies,
    Whisper'd reverberations, chords for the ear of the West
    joyously sounding,
    Your tidings old, yet ever new and untranslatable,
    Infinitesmals out of my life, and many a life,
    (For not my life and years alone I give - all, all I give,)
    These waifs from the deep, cast high and dry,
    Wash'd on America's shores?

    ~ "Whitman"

    I love this poem. It reminds me of my childhood days of wandering up and down the beach looking for that "one" perfect sea shell.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 5, 2006 - 07:28 pm
    and continuing...the next bit...

    The Return of the Heroes

    1

    For the lands and for these passionate days and for myself,
    Now I awhile retire to thee O soil of autumn fields,
    Reclining on thy breast, giving myself to thee,
    Answering the pulses of thy sane and equable heart,
    Turning a verse for thee.

    O earth that hast no voice, confide to me a voice,

    O harvest of my lands - O boundless summer growths,

    O lavish brown parturient earth - O infinite teeming womb,

    A song to narrate thee.

    2

    Ever upon this stage,
    Is acted God's calm annual drama,
    Gorgeous processions, songs of birds,
    Sunrise that fullest feeds and freshens most the soul,
    The heaving sea, the waves upon the shore, the musical, strong waves,
    The woods, the stalwart trees, the slender, tapering trees,
    The liliput countless armies of the grass,
    The heat, the showers, the measureless pasturages,
    The scenery of the snows, the winds' free orchestra,
    The stretching light-hung roof of clouds, the clear cerulean and the
    silvery fringes,
    The high-dilating stars, the placid beckoning stars,
    The moving flocks and herds, the plains and emerald meadows,
    The shows of all the varied lands and all the growths and products.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 5, 2006 - 07:33 pm
    This man's ability to put his love of nation and its people into words is just the music I need to hear today with the ra ta tat that bombards my senses so that I am often caught between wanting to cry and wanting to scream.

    annafair
    September 6, 2006 - 03:45 am
    Barbara and Scawler I understand what you are saying Each poem we have shared is AMERICA TO ME.....I have been blessed to have lived from the East to West coast and have traveled and seen much of the inbetween and WW has captured the essence of this land and the people in it..With his words he paints pictures in my mind.Not tiny pictures but grand ones and with his words I SEE again what once I saw and it is just as vast and minute as his poems present..He not only sees the ocean but the shells ..the stars and the birds ..

    One thing about discussing a poet and the poems for a whole month for the first time I am getting an in depth feel for the poet, for the poems, and all of that is enhanced by everyone sharing what they see in feel ...

    thanks to each who make it possible...anna

    MarjV
    September 6, 2006 - 11:13 am
    In Barbara's post I love his "stage" and God's continuing annual drama. It just happens. All the worlds a stage Whitman is saying. "The shows of all the varied lands and all the growths and products"

    I sure would like to know if any of our Australian friends, or those of other countries, find Whitman's poems universal enough to speak to them.

    It just now popped into my head - that song "This Land is Your Land, This land is My land..........."

    Here's the music and lyrics "This Land is Your Land

    Note there are Canadian verses following.

    Scrawler
    September 6, 2006 - 02:56 pm
    Far hence amid an isle of wonderous beauty,
    Crouching over a grave an ancient sorrowful mother,
    Once a queen, now lean and tatter'd seated on the ground,
    Her old white hair drooping dishevel'd round her shoulders,
    At her feet fallen an unused royal harp,
    Long silent, she too long silent, mourning her shrouded
    hope and heir,
    Of all the earth her heart must full of sorrow because most
    full of love.

    Yet a word anicent mother,
    You need crouch there no longer on the cold ground with
    forehead between your knees,
    O you need not sit there veil'd in your old white hair so
    dishevel'd,
    For know you the one you mourn is not in that grave,
    It was an illusion, the son you love was not really dead,
    The Lord is not dead, he is risen again young and strong in
    another country,
    Even while you wept there by your fallen harp by the grave,
    The winds favor'd and the sea sail'd it,
    And now with rosy and new blood,
    Moves to-day in a new country.

    "Whitman" "Autumn Rivulets"

    This poem reminds me of my own roots. I don't remember the Irish lad, but rather a very young Irish girl who would travel across an ocean to America from Ireland with nothing but the clothes on her back. She arrived in Boston with her sister and than traveled to San Francisco where she worked as a laundress for the stevedores who worked the docks. One of those stevedores was a young Frenchman. They would fall in love despite their families wishes and as they say the rest is history. Sometimes when I get depressed, I think back to my own ancestors and the courage they showed to leave the place where they were born with nothing and to come to a strange land which they did not know.

    hats
    September 7, 2006 - 03:04 am
    "Sometimes when I get depressed, I think back to my own ancestors and the courage they showed to leave the place where they were born with nothing and to come to a strange land which they did not know."

    Scrawler, I think most of us in America can share this part of your story.

    hats
    September 7, 2006 - 03:44 am
    MarjV, thank you for the link. I remember This Land is Your Land so well.

    hats
    September 7, 2006 - 05:21 am
    Anna, thank you. I love this poem. I think there is a lot of meaning in it. My mind just can't get to all the gold nuggets. I do love the first two lines.

    I SAW in Louisiana a live-oak growing,
    All alone stood it, and the moss hung down from the branches;


    I have never been to Louisiana. I have been through and to certain places in Georgia like St. Simon's Island and Jekyll Island. The trees throughout Georgia are hung with moss. I remember seeing moss for the first time. I thought it looked so romantic, graceful and delicate hanging on the trees. This poem reminds me of those memories.

    MarjV
    September 7, 2006 - 06:43 am
    I, too, like the first lines of "Live-Oak". However in the 4th line he makes a switch from what I felt . Whitman labels it" rude, unbending, lusty". I thought the description one of strength and beauty. It once agains reveals how we experience visuals differently as we do the poems & stories we read. Whitman experienced that Live-oak in reference to himself and his feelings at that time.

    hats
    September 7, 2006 - 06:47 am
    MarjV, thank you. Sometimes I want, so deeply, to get the other meaning of a poem. Zip! It goes over my head. This is why I like having all the opinions here. It's like there are two or more heads on my shoulders, only the other heads have deeper insights.

    hats
    September 7, 2006 - 06:53 am
    Have you heard that it was good to gain
    the day?
    I also say it is good to fall, battles are lost
    in the same spirit in which they are
    won.


    Vivas to those who have fail'd!
    And to those whose war-vessels sank in
    sea!
    And to the generals that lost
    engagements, and all overcome
    heroes!
    And the numberless unknown heroes
    equal to the greatest heroes known!


    It is easy, I know for me, to shout for those who win the victory. It is very hard to remember that those who have lost or failed have left mighty lessons for our lives too. No man is worth forgetting. I am reminded of a statement that use to be popular. God don't make no junk.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 7, 2006 - 08:56 am
    Oh but in Louisiana the moss can be "rude, unbending, lusty" it is so thick and dark where it is thick taking the life out of these large oak trees, the most glorious strong stately tree - here, we have Ball Moss rather than Spanish Moss and my trees need doing so badly - it must be hand picked out and the dead limbs cut - cost about $1000 a tree and I have 15 large trees that all need doing - the one tree in just three years looks like I have lost half the tree -

    In Cajun areas there were factories if you would where the moss was collected and made into various products including mattress stuffing, rope, combined with deer hair and mud it was made into bricks etc. etc. So that moss was to some as big a farm industry as extracting sugar from cane.

    There is a museum in St. Martinsville [or at least there was before Katrina - have not checked to see how they fared] but there was a Cajun house, a sugar and a moss exhibit and a Creole House. St. Martinsville is where the wonderful statue of Evangeline is located outside the church at the end of Longfellow's prose story.

    MarjV
    September 7, 2006 - 08:58 am
    And those who have lost or failed also did the "toil". Our society has always been so set on winning, succeeding, having it all. So I thank Whitman for clapping for the unknown who walk/walked among us.

    Good segment, Hats. And I sure do like your last thought.

    Now that I have a huge book of his poems I can read the whole of "Song.."

    ~Not Junk Marj

    Scrawler
    September 7, 2006 - 02:27 pm
    One's-Self I sing, a simple separate person,
    Yet utter the word Democratic, the word En-Masse.

    Of physiology from top to toe I sing,
    Not physiognomy alone nor brain alone is worthy for the
    Muse, I say the Form complete is worthier far,
    The Female equally with the Male I sing.

    Of Life immense in passion, pulse, and power,
    Cheerful, for freest action form'd under the laws divine,
    The Modern Man I sing.

    ~ Whitman" ~ "Inscriptions"

    When Whitman speaks of "modern man" I wonder whether he has us in mind and wonder if someday men and women will be equal "in passion, pulse and power."

    MarjV
    September 7, 2006 - 02:56 pm
    I think there is no question about it - he was for equality of the male and female - very vividly expressed in poem #660

    hats
    September 7, 2006 - 03:03 pm
    MarjV, I agree.

    Alliemae
    September 7, 2006 - 03:05 pm
    ...and I wonder if now that men have finally noticed how definitely equal (and sometimes MORE than equal women are in 'passion and pulse' it might be the reason they hesitate to allow us to have 'equal power'...

    I know we're all different but I think it's each human that is unique from all the others...I don't get why that has remained such a 'gender' issue and I can't help but wonder if it was used by religions that had power and big money that wanted to keep their power just as I learned that in the Near and Middle East education was meted out so that majorities were illiterate and could be bought and sold by those in power.

    I think somehow, the 'powerful' know that once men and women join together and make strong alliances and strong families and strong communies, the peoples' voices will be better heard.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 7, 2006 - 03:07 pm
    I was still writing my last post when you posted yours...I do agree!!

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    September 7, 2006 - 05:48 pm
    A very short poem:

    239. Thought

    OF Equality—As if it harm’d me, giving others the same chances and rights as myself—As if it were not indispensable to my own rights that others possess the same.


    (I see there are 7 titled "Thought" and 3 titled "Thoughts")

    hats
    September 8, 2006 - 12:20 am
    Wow! How powerful! MarjV, thanks.

    MarjV
    September 8, 2006 - 06:32 am
    Barbara, I see I missed your interesting post on moss.

    hats
    September 8, 2006 - 07:09 am
    Barbara yes, I really enjoyed reading your post about moss. Thank you.

    hats
    September 8, 2006 - 07:09 am
    I always need to take time and read back through the posts. There is always some new thought or a post I just missed altogether.

    Scrawler
    September 8, 2006 - 02:43 pm
    You who celebrate bygones,
    Who have explored the outward, the surfaces of the races,
    the life that has exhibited itself,
    Who have treated of man as the creature of politics,
    aggregates, rulers and priests,
    I, habitan of the Alleghanies, treating of him as he is in
    himself in his own rights,
    Pressing the pulse of the life that has seldom exhibited itself,
    Chanter of Personality, outlineing what is yet to be,
    I project the history of the future.

    ~ "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    I love that "thought" poem! It does make one "ponder" it! I like this little poem. I think Whitman has a point. While historians tend to emphasize the past as a parade of politics, aggregates, rulers and priests, Whitman prefers to see man for what he really is - the great pride of man in himself and in his own rights.

    annafair
    September 9, 2006 - 07:46 am
    thoughts I have been babysitting my 11 month old grandson.He is a poem in progress and I have enjoyed it more than I can say ..he took his first steps while here ..and I loved seeing the world through his eyes .> He was enamoured with the scenes from the upper floor windows, The leaves on the trees, the wind moving , the clouds ...his face lit up with such joy at what he was seeing. He walked along the wall viewing the wallpaper. A colorful marine paper with ships and all sorts of seascapes. He admired the patterns in the hardwood floor, the spindles on my chair, he was fascinated that as he could push the "play and park pack" a new name for a play pen where is slept ..Each morning he woke with a smile as if to say WHAT CAN I FIND OUT TODAY?

    Why do I tell you this ? because Whitman affects me the same way WW sees the world new and tells us about it.. being an adult he tells us all about it , the good and the bad and like my grandson WW makes me think..He reaffirms my own belief that we are all equal and my grandparent left thier countries and came here to find a new and better way of life How grateful I am for their courage. Years ago I sailed to Europe to join my husband in the military on The America ..As I enjoyed the luxury of that crossing I had to admire my grandparents who sailed in what some called "coffin ships "out of SLigo in Ireland..If we are a success today we OWE it to thier courage.

    WW praises all man and he uses that to mean ALL MANKIND male and female I feel his belief in the worth of each human ..Of all of the poets we have discussed this year WW reinforces my own belief That we live in a wonderful world and EACH PERSON COUNTS>.

    Thank you for all of your thoughtful posts I could not choose between all the wonderful observations WHITMAN WOULD SAY THEY ARE ALL GOOD and so do I ..anna

    MarjV
    September 9, 2006 - 08:26 am
    102. Thought

    OF persons arrived at high positions, ceremonies, wealth,
    scholarships, and the like;
    To me, all that those persons have arrived at, sinks away from them,
    except as it results to their Bodies and Souls,
    So that often to me they appear gaunt and naked;
    And often, to me, each one mocks the others, and mocks himself or
    herself,
    And of each one, the core of life, namely happiness, is full of the
    rotten excrement of maggots,
    And often, to me, those men and women pass unwittingly the true
    realities of life, and go toward false realities,
    And often, to me, they are alive after what custom has served them,
    but nothing more,
    And often, to me, they are sad, hasty, unwaked sonnambules, walking the dusk.

    MarjV
    September 9, 2006 - 08:31 am
    WW sure indicts the ones who scrabble over others to get to the top.

    And notice the repeated use of "and". When read aloud makes even more of a point.

    And I like how he uses both genders.

    And a universal theme not limited to America.

    Alliemae
    September 9, 2006 - 10:40 am
    scholarships, and the like;
    To me, all that those persons have arrived at, sinks away from them,
    except as it results to their Bodies and Souls,
    (MargV)

    You know, I thought I was strange. A few years back I left the university so I could learn something I wanted to learn and that I enjoyed learning...and most of it was in my old major!

    I really think there is a lot of truth in what WW is saying in that poem! I've learned so many REAL things and PLEASING things and so much about LIFE since I left academia...

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 9, 2006 - 11:16 am
    Academia was one thing...but 'school' and 'September' and 'teachers' now there's another story. I will always love September because school starts in September...off the sandals...off the sneakers...and on with the clunky, sensible oxfords that made my feet and the rest of my body with them feel securely encased...my mind secure again from the structure and routine of 'school days'! And so I have selected this poem because on Monday I will be starting Greek 101 and Latin 103 here on SrNet and will just be in and out my friends but will keep up with posts and comments here and maybe even have the time to add one or two of my own.

    AN old man's thought of School;
    An old man, gathering youthful memories and blooms, that youth itself cannot.

    Now only do I know you!
    O fair auroral skies! O morning dew upon the grass!

    And these I see--these sparkling eyes,
    These stores of mystic meaning--these young lives,
    Building, equipping, like a fleet of ships--immortal ships!
    Soon to sail out over the measureless seas,
    On the Soul's voyage.

    Only a lot of boys and girls?
    Only the tiresome spelling, writing, ciphering classes?
    Only a Public School?

    Ah more--infinitely more;
    (As George Fox rais'd his warning cry, "Is it this pile of brick and
    mortar--these dead floors, windows, rails--you call the church?
    Why this is not the church at all--the Church is living, ever living
    Souls."

    And you, America,
    Cast you the real reckoning for your present?
    The lights and shadows of your future--good or evil?
    To girlhood, boyhood look--the Teacher and the School."

    Walt Whitman

    Yes...the most wonderful people I've ever known were my K-12 teachers! I can still see their faces and hear their voices...and remember all the 'life lessons' they taught along with Reading, 'Riting, and 'Rithmetic!!

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    September 9, 2006 - 12:19 pm
    I heard that you ask'd for something to prove this puzzle
    the New World,
    And to define America, her athletic Democracy,
    Therefore I send you my poems that you behold in them
    what you wanted.

    "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    I would say that if you wanted to find out what made America tick that reading Whitman's poems would do it.

    MarjV
    September 9, 2006 - 01:25 pm
    Alliemae posted: I've learned so many REAL things and PLEASING things and so much about LIFE since I left academia...

    That's really exciting Alli; the very reason I invested in a computer in the first place - there were so many things I wanted to learn and read and find!

    MarjV
    September 9, 2006 - 01:34 pm
    As Allimae, I have always found September to have a newness, a beginning, an opportunity since it has always been connected with the new school year.

    I like this part of the school poem Alli posted:
    Ah more--infinitely more;
    (As George Fox rais'd his warning cry, "Is it this pile of brick and
    mortar--these dead floors, windows, rails--you call the church?
    Why this is not the church at all--the Church is living, ever living
    Souls.")


    Isn't that a marvelous bit of wisdom for all time.!!!!

    Other wonderful lines in that poem - about the "stores of mystic learning"

    annafair
    September 9, 2006 - 02:02 pm
    Ah that is what draws us near...I was always taking classes ...and still do ..how could I waste my life and not know all I could know..about everything ...Alliemae and Scawler I think those who come here and other places on the net are hungry ..we have plenty to eat but what our being cries out for is food for our hearts and souls. Our minds. I am sure you have met people who seem to have stopped somewhere along the way. They have no curiosity ..I hear that in the voices of those who ask me WHY I have a computer Why do I go on the net Why do I trust the people I meet here ? Some I have known for 30years and in many ways I see no change in them.I think we must have a curious gene...

    I chose my poem for today because this is the way I often feel at night .When the world around me is still ..and the moon oozes through my window glass. And the green trees have absorbed the night and look black even where the moon lights a path..No TV No radio No lights except the small one down the hall , faint and dim...Whitman and I would have understood each other.. anna I want to stay like my small grandson...I want to SEE the wonder in all things and look forward each to learning something new...One of my 6 year old grandsons came over today to see his small cousin and was disappointed he had left But I told him You know your cousin Will showed me that you should always be learning something new or seeing old things in new ways...AND dont you forget that when you are my age someday......

    A Clear Midnight




    THIS is thy hour O Soul, thy free flight into the wordless,
    Away from books, away from art, the day erased, the lesson done,
    Thee fully forth emerging, silent, gazing, pondering the themes thou
    lovest best.
    Night, sleep, and the stars.


    Walt Whitman

    MarjV
    September 9, 2006 - 04:16 pm
    Isn't that a beautiful poem!

    Anna posts: I think we must have a curious gene... .

    I think so, Anna!!!! I have people say the very same thing to me.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 9, 2006 - 05:42 pm
    Oh does that poem remind me of just a couple of nights ago - the moon was full and before I went to bed I stepped outside - nothing was stirring and I just stood in the driveway looking up at the moon. A car went by but I just kept standing there looking till the silence was all around again. Couldn't think of any words - just looked and looked and felt the air on my skin cooler than it has been. I wanted to open the front door and let the night into the house but couldn't leave it opened all night so I slowly headed in and locked up after myself.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 9, 2006 - 06:16 pm
    the closest I have found this man capable of being depressed and even then he sees the worth in us all...

    O Me! O Life!

    O ME! O life!... of the questions of these recurring;
    Of the endless trains of the faithless—of cities fill’d with the foolish;
    Of myself forever reproaching myself, (for who more foolish than I, and who more faithless?)
    Of eyes that vainly crave the light—of the objects mean—of the struggle ever renew’d;
    Of the poor results of all—of the plodding and sordid crowds I see around me;
    Of the empty and useless years of the rest—with the rest me intertwined;
    The question, O me! so sad, recurring—What good amid these, O me, O life?

    Answer.

    That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
    That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.

    annafair
    September 9, 2006 - 08:11 pm
    "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse"

    I just love those lines Thanks so much Barbara

    anna with a curious gene \

    Alliemae
    September 10, 2006 - 05:51 am
    Scrawler, when you said, "I would say that if you wanted to find out what made America tick that reading Whitman's poems would do it."

    I couldn't agree more, in fact there's one phrase that really caught my eye in "To foreign Lands" and it is:

    "And to define America, her athletic Democracy,"

    'Athletic Democracy'...how many times have I wanted to truly characterize the difference between our democracy and other democracies. It's our vitality...you can see it moving and vital and intense, but has, most of the time, been intense in it's vitality. Some may call us 'brash'...I prefer the term 'athletic democracy'!!

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 10, 2006 - 05:55 am
    Oh anna...what a lovely and delightful way to describe your grandson...I wish you many, many happy decades with him as his poem progresses!! I feel that way about my grandchildren and did with my children but never could have expressed it that poetically!

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 10, 2006 - 07:13 am
    I liked that part too...I am loving this poet and I think with our world in such turmoil, especially in an election year, the anniversary of 9-11, and all we want is THE TRUTH about our country and our mutual future, not hype...WW is just what the 'Expander' [my word for 'shrink'...think about it : )] ordered!

    And so here, I think Barbara's words of a few posts back deserve repeating: "This man's ability to put his love of nation and its people into words is just the music I need to hear today with the ra ta tat that bombards my senses so that I am often caught between wanting to cry and wanting to scream."

    Barbara, I find myself in the same boat!! Thanks again for your words!

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 10, 2006 - 07:26 am
    I love the attitude in this poem. It seems so typically WW. He understands and expresses things that ring so simple yet true.

    " battles are lost
    in the same spirit in which they are
    won."
    >

    I wish I had read more Whitman while I was raising my children. I was familiar with a few of his works but wow, what an attitude builder this man is!

    Thanks, Hats!

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 10, 2006 - 07:58 am
    First of all...I agree about the 'curious gene'...it is our joy and sometimes, can become our sorrow--but I wouldn't be without it!

    I reach that point many nights, lying silently, listening to the darkness and letting my mind drift...seeing goats and ducks and chickens and smelling our old farm until I drift into sleep. (That is, except for these last few nights...I'm soooooooo excited to 'start school'!!)

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    September 10, 2006 - 08:14 am
    "Answer.

    That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
    That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse." (or maybe some prose...)

    Barbara, yes, this is what the living do, isn't it. To paraphrase the last few words of "Waiting for Godot" 'I can't go on...I can't go on...I can't go on--I'll go on!" I'm not sure about the accuracy but the thought is there...and I'm not even sure about my spelling of 'Godot'...but both your answer and the words from that book have gotten me through some really tough and depressing times.

    Well...I'm sorry about all of my posts in a row but I guess I don't want any of you to forget me if I'm only in and out after tomorrow!! All of you have gotten me through so much and have been such loving and supportive 'fellow travelers', especially through my scary summer.

    I'll be back! And I'll miss you all!

    Alliemae

    annafair
    September 10, 2006 - 10:24 am
    We will be here for you and welcome each visit There can never be enough you know..Enjoy your "SCHOOL" Ilove your thought where you wished you had read more of Whitman while your children were growing Makes me wish the same but I think in the poems of his I did read there was a relationship that helped me raise my four wonderful children who are also the result of my own families values...and in now reading his poetry I wonder DID my mother( who was the reader in our family) read his poems..Because most of my beliefs are based on what I learned at home...

    Today I chose a poem that just makes me want to shout.. Walking hand in hand ...I feel we do that here ..our hands are not physically touching but somewhere out in space they meet ....anna

    A Leaf For Hand In Hand


    A LEAF for hand in hand!
    You natural persons old and young!
    You on the Mississippi, and on all the branches and bayous of the
    Mississippi!
    You friendly boatmen and mechanics! You roughs!
    You twain! And all processions moving along the streets!
    I wish to infuse myself among you till I see it common for you to
    walk hand in hand!


    Walt Whitman

    JoanK
    September 10, 2006 - 11:37 am
    Today for the first time I really begin to HEAR Whitman! I don't know why, but up to now, he didn't speak to me. Today I read back posts, starting with A Clear Midnight and began to cry! Each poem touches me more. Perhaps I have been asleep, and am only now beginning to wake.

    ALLIEMAE: how I envy you. I dropped out of Latin when my husband died so suddenly, but I've missed it. I thought by Fall I'd be ready to go back, but my concentration is still so poor. There are days when I can't read at all and can only stay on the computer for a few minutes. I'm not the same person who was in 12 discussions, led discussions, and took Latin as well. I don't know when (or if) that person is going to come back.

    annafair
    September 10, 2006 - 01:21 pm
    from one who has been there be kind to you! You have suffered a grivieous wound and while in time it will look healed it is never going to heal completely ..which is good I think ..do we really want to forget ? how terrible to lose someone special and forget No we remember ,. we weep but we rejoice because they were once part of our lives of who we are...You give yourself the time, the space you need ...It has been 12 years 13 next March and I dont forget but I have passed a point where when I remember I can say THANK YOU GOD for allowing me to share my life with him..I still shed tears but they are mixed .sorrow for my loss but mostly tears because I was so blessed to have him in my life..Maybe next year you can return to Latin or some other interests ..There are so many things we will never learn regardless of how long we live or how diligently we pursue them

    I know everyone is always glad to read your posts , your thoughts and your feelings They add so much to to not just this discussion but to our lives as well

    Love you............always ,anna

    MarjV
    September 11, 2006 - 05:24 am
    Love Whitman's walking hand in hand !

    And that's what your pals are doing, JoanK. So come when you can . We love to see your thoughts.

    ~Marj

    MarjV
    September 11, 2006 - 01:36 pm
    b>204. Quicksand Years/Whiman


    QUICKSAND years that whirl me I know not whither,
    Your schemes, politics, fail—lines give way—substances mock and elude me;
    Only the theme I sing, the great and strong-possess’d Soul, eludes not;
    One’s-self must never give way—that is the final substance—that out of all is sure;
    Out of politics, triumphs, battles, life—what at last finally remains?
    When shows break up, what but One’s-Self is sure?


    "one-s-self must never give way". How often do we know people who have "sold" their souls in our own pathway and at large!!!

    I really really like this poem. It astounded me when I came across it and I said "HOORAH! ".

    Scrawler
    September 11, 2006 - 02:00 pm
    When I read the book, the biography famous,
    And is this then (said I) what the author calls a man's life?
    And so will some one when I am dead and gone write my life?
    (As if any man really knew aught of my life,
    Why even I myself I often think know little or nothing of
    my real life,
    Only a few hints, a few diffused faint clews and indirections
    I seek for my own use to trace out here.)

    ~ "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    Since we are in a sense reading about Whitman's life through his poetry, his commits here are interesting.

    Mallylee
    September 11, 2006 - 02:45 pm
    Hata#607 #608#609

    What a beautiful poem. Siegfied Sassoon also compared a soldier in the midst of battle to Christ. There is a lot about suicide martyrdom especially on this day 9/11. But the bombers were willing suicides : Christ did not actively seek death, and neither do soldiers.

    hats
    September 12, 2006 - 02:07 am
    MarjV, what a great poem! "Quicksand years," I have never thought of the days of our lives in that way. The two words stay with me. I want to not miss the meaning. Our years sink away. We can not pull the past back again. I know there is more in those two weighty words.

    "One’s-self must never give way—that is the final substance—that out of all is sure;"

    We must never give up. After all is said and done, in the end, we face ourselves. We can't run from our genetic makeup, our thoughts, our regrets or triumphs. Our blueprint remains. So, we must make peace with it before all our days are sucked away like "quicksand." What a thoughtful poem. I hope my thoughts have kept the meaning intact.

    Marj, I see exactly what you are saying.

    "one-s-self must never give way". "How often do we know people who have "sold" their souls in our own pathway and at large!!!"

    hats
    September 12, 2006 - 02:14 am
    Mallylee, one day I would love to read the Siegfied Sassoon poem.

    hats
    September 12, 2006 - 02:19 am
    Alliemae, your paraphrase of "Waiting for Godot" is magnificent. That phrase, in your words, is inspirational. Thank you.

    "To paraphrase the last few words of "Waiting for Godot" 'I can't go on...I can't go on...I can't go on--I'll go on!" I'm not sure about the accuracy but the thought is there...and I'm not even sure about my spelling of 'Godot'...but both your answer and the words from that book have gotten me through some really tough and depressing times."

    hats
    September 12, 2006 - 02:23 am
    Scrawler, I love that question in the poem.

    "As if any man really knew aught of my life, Why even I myself I often think know little or nothing of my real life,"

    Wow! So many life experiences are packed in our short life. Our lives, I think, are always complicated. How can anyone fully write about another person's life? Maybe biographers write about the lives of others in order to come to a better understanding of themselves.

    hats
    September 12, 2006 - 02:27 am
    Anna, I love your thoughts on this poem.

    "Today I chose a poem that just makes me want to shout.. Walking hand in hand ...I feel we do that here ..our hands are not physically touching but somewhere out in space they meet ....anna "

    My favorite line of this beautiful poem is,

    "I wish to infuse myself among you till I see it common for you to walk hand in hand!"

    Walt Whitman

    I love the words "infuse myself." I get the feeling WW wanted to become as close as possible to other human beings knowing when lives touch lessons are learned.

    MarjV
    September 12, 2006 - 10:46 am
    Comment on "A Leaf.........." Would that we could walk hand in hand. Some of that happens with out cyber friends. Verily I say!

    Yes, Hats, you got my thought just right.

    And I like this so much: You posted: Our blueprint remains. So, we must make peace with it before all our days are sucked away like "quicksand."

    Scrawler
    September 12, 2006 - 11:16 am
    Beginning my studies the first step pleas'd me so much,
    The mere fact consciousness, these forms, the power of
    motion,
    The least insect or animal, the senses, eyesight, love,
    The first step I saw awed me and pleas'd me so much,
    I have hardly gone and hardly wish'd to go any farther,
    But stop and loiter all the time to sing it in ecstatic songs.

    "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    This to me is exactly what "the search for knowlege" is.

    MarjV
    September 12, 2006 - 11:49 am
    "Beginning my Studies" and the other poems we've posted gives us a total vision of the real Whitman. Whitman is a person who is broad, wrapping his arms around all humanity with love and at the same time taking care of himself and his needs such as "studies". He wasn't just totally wrapped in himself ; he thought about and observed and responded to other humans.

    hats
    September 12, 2006 - 12:15 pm
    "Beginning My Studies:" again I see WW's enthusiams for life all around him. He wants to know about every organism inhabiting the universe. Nothing is too small to attract his attention. No movement unnoticed. He loved life. Life thrilled him.

    Mallylee
    September 13, 2006 - 09:34 am
    Hats here is the poem by Siegried Sassoon

    http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/8103/Sassoon1.html

    It's the third poem, 'The Redeemer'

    hats
    September 13, 2006 - 09:35 am
    Mallylee, thank you. The poem makes me very emotional. I am glad you posted it. These lines stood out among many other lines.

    The barrage roars and lifts. Then, clumsily bowed
    With bombs and guns and shovels and battle-gear,
    Men jostle and climb to meet the bristling fire.
    Lines of grey, muttering faces, masked with fear,
    They leave their trenches, going over the top,
    While time ticks blank and busy on their wrists,
    And hope, with furtive eyes and grappling fists,
    Flounders in mud. O Jesus, make it stop!


    _____________________________________________________________________

    No thorny crown, only a woollen cap
    He wore--an English soldier, white and strong,
    Who loved his time like any simple chap,
    Good days of work and sport and homely song;
    Now he has learned that nights are very long,
    And dawn a watching of the windowed sky

    Scrawler
    September 13, 2006 - 04:06 pm
    How they are provided upon the earth, (appearing at intervals,)
    How dear and dreadful they are to the earth,
    How they inure to themselves as much as to any-what a
    paradox appears their age
    How people respond to them, yet know them not,
    How there is something rentless in their fate all times,
    How all times mischoose the objects of their adulation and
    reward,
    And how the same inexorable price must still be paid for the
    same great purchase.

    "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    I think this is a delightful poem. The other day when I went to the store early in the morning; I saw the little kids waiting with their parents for the school bus. I don't know who was more nervous the parents or the kids. The kids kept tugging at their new clothes and the parents kept re-arranging what they were wearing and making sure they had everything they needed. I couldn't help think that gaining knowledge will have little to do with what these kids are wearing.

    Scrawler
    September 14, 2006 - 08:32 am
    To the States or any one of them, or any city of the States,
    Resist much, obey little,
    Once unquestioning obedience, once fully enslaved,
    Once fully enslaved, no nation, state, city of this earth, ever
    afterward resumes its liberty.

    "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    I think this poem speaks for itself!

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 14, 2006 - 09:45 am
    Wow... confusion reigns to this day over that war...

    MarjV
    September 14, 2006 - 12:48 pm
    Comment post 706: Thanks for the poem link, Mallylee. Quite vivid. Then I read about him in the bio link and a couple of the other men mentioned. Then I remembered Hedd Wyn (Welsh) and looked him up again - and I know I saw the movie about him quite a few years back but can't find it at our library or Netflix.,perhaps it was from a video store.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 14, 2006 - 07:51 pm
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104403/

    here it is Marj

    annafair
    September 15, 2006 - 02:05 am
    Thanks so much for the continued postings of our poet this month ,..I am ill again ! My sinusitis went into bronchitis ,,I am taking another round of antibiotics and am exhausted with coughing etc..I have to forgo my trip to Arlington for my sister in laws service. My family will go but I finish my last dose on Sat and my doctor feels Monday is too soon to venture out I am not reading or doing very much but take medicine ,COUGH and sleep I am only here because I had to get up to take some medicine and have missed everyone so much and MISS reading ..I fall asleep in front of the TV which isnt too bad since there is little to cheer one..While I am not going to Arlington on Monday I am hoping I feel well enough to read Whitman and return with a poem to share I did read all the posts since this round of illness (19 posts) and that did give me some joy..thanks ..love to all,. anna

    Mallylee
    September 15, 2006 - 02:29 am
    Scrawler, that is a poem I hope to remember.

    And how the same inexorable price must still be paid for the same great purchase.

    For me says the best about Christianity, and what is Christlike in ordinary persons.

    Poor Anna, I do hope that each day will be a better one until you are quite recovered. I will think of you relaxing in front of the restful televison,

    Mallylee
    September 15, 2006 - 02:38 am
    Scrawler#709

    is true, and needs to be remembered by all free people. Freedom is a precious legacy from those who have risked much for it.

    'Totally enslaved' leaves a space, perhaps a narrow space, for some saviour(s) who retains the spirit of liberty, and who can lead the sheeple out of enslavement

    Scrawler
    September 15, 2006 - 09:37 am
    Here, take this gift
    I was reserving it for some hero, speaker, or general,
    One who should serve the good old cause, the great idea,
    the progress and freedom of the race,
    Some brave confronter of despots, some daring rebel;
    But I see that what I was reserving belongs to you just as
    much as to any.

    ~"Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    Once again this poem speaks for itself. To me it isn't the politician or the generals that fight for the great idea or the freedom of the race, but rather it is the common man and woman who do so.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 15, 2006 - 01:37 pm
    Anna you have been having a time of it this summer - hope the fall weather brings a joy that improves your life for you and you feel like a cool crisp fall afternoon with the sun shining through the orange leaves.

    Jim in Jeff
    September 15, 2006 - 04:06 pm
    As we study poetry of Whitman this month, I'm starting to realize that he offered us...maybe TOO MANY profound thoughts. It "boggles the mind" (mine anyways). But forum friends here have been covering a good many of his original thoughts to us.

    Today I just wish to share with forum friends a related personal story. In 1988 I joined an online "Anita Kerr" forum engaged in trading old recordings and memories of this prolific 1960s-70s vocalist/music arranger/producer. Some here might recall her then-popular group, the "Anita Kerr Singers." AKS also backed recordings by dozens of C/W or Pop singers (Jim Reeves, Al Hirt, Chet Atkins, and Rod McKuen, a popular 60s-70s poet).

    Shortly after joining their forum, I proceded to find Anita's whereabouts by sending letters to her past recording companies. She had moved to Switzerland years earlier. She, the online club, and I then had a warm, too brief online exchange then. Anita even wrote me 3 personal letters...and sent me a hankerchief gift. I'll treasure these from her...forever-and-a-day.

    Shortly thereafter she, about age 65 then, tested USA market for memories of her via her new album release "In the Soul" on the Gaia label, # 24813-9004-2. On it, she recites 13 prsonal selections of poetry of her longtime idol, WALT WHITMAN.

    If Whitman fans here find this album in the reissue market, buy it! It is selected verses of Whitman...recited by Anita with her musical background arrangements. WW's poetry...in a lovely setting (IMHO).

    On the album, her first choice is an extract from WW's "Autumn Rivulets," copied below (spacings below, mine):

    I do not think seventy years is the time of a man or woman,
    Nor that seventy millions of years is the time of a man or woman,
    Nor that years will ever stop the existence of me, or any one else.
    Is it wonderful that I should be immortal? as every one is immortal;
    I know it is wonderful, but my eyesight is equally wonderful,
    And how I was conceived in my mother's womb is equally wonderful,
    And pass'd from a babe
    In the creeping trance of a couple of summers and winters
    Toarticulate and walk--all this is equally wonderful.
    And that my soul embraces you this hour,
    And we affect each other without ever seeing each other,
    And never perhaps to see each other, is every bit as wonderful.
    And that I can think such thoughts as these
    Is...just as wonderful,
    And that I can remind you, and you think them and know
    them to be true, is just as wonderful.
    And that the moon spins round the earth
    and on with the earth, is...equally wonderful,
    And that they balance themselves with the sun and stars is...
    equally wonderful.

    Scrawler
    September 16, 2006 - 09:31 am
    Thither as I look I see each result and glory retracing itself
    and nestling close, always obligated,
    Thither hours, months, years - thither trades, compacts,
    establishments, even the most minute,
    Thither every-day life, speech, utensils, politics, persons,
    estates;
    Thither we also, I with my leaves and songs, trustful,
    admirant,
    As a father to his father going takes his children along with him.

    "Whitman" "Inspirations"

    I picked this poem because I liked the beat of the poem, but I fear I'm not at all sure what it means. Any ideas?

    From Wikipedia: "An autistic savant (historically described as idiot savant) is an autistic person with Savant Syndrome. Savant Syndrome describes people with both a severe developmental or mental handicap and extraordinary mental abilities not found in most people. The Savant Syndrome skills involve striking feats of memory and often include arithmetic calculation and sometimes art or music."

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 16, 2006 - 10:26 am
    I think he is showing the dichotomy of Savantism versus learning by adhering to tradition.

    When you look up Savant - not only is is a learned person but one of the definitions is to initiate - to take the lead or initiative in; participate in the development of.

    All the described relationships in the poem are "tethered" to the knowledge of the father or the past rather than to the development of new thinking and behavior.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 16, 2006 - 10:30 am
    If you do not belong this is very inexpensive - I think $19 and so I do not know if you can get the word to give you the chart or not without being a member of the Visual Thesaurus

    However, I did look up Savant in the Oxford dictionary when the Visual Thesaurus would not show a chart for Savantism I had to find the root word.

    http://www.visualthesaurus.com/

    Mallylee
    September 16, 2006 - 01:19 pm
    Scrawler, what it means for me is the infinite connections between all events and all things. How each event however tiny has repercussions,and how each tiny event had to happen because set into the larger pattern of events.

    I dont know if Whitman believed that God knew everything, or if Whitman would rather have said,'if there were God then he would know everything'.

    The fall of the sparrow is necessary whether one is a believer , or not. So I think, anyway.

    Mallylee
    September 16, 2006 - 01:32 pm
    This is a superb novel about Asperger syndrome http://www.themodernword.com/reviews/haddon.html

    Scrawler
    September 17, 2006 - 09:15 am
    Lo, the unbounded sea,
    On its breast a ship starting, spreading all sails, carrying even
    her moonsails
    The pennant is flying aloft as she speeds she speeds so
    stately - below emulous waves press forward,
    They surround the ship with shining curving motions and
    foam.

    "Whitman" "Inspirations"

    I think the 1800s were a time to see the sailing ships in all their beauty. Just as I used to watched the ships on the ocean, so I suppose Whitman watched them as they sailed out of New York or Boston. During the centennial I saw various sailing ships on TV, but what a sight it would have been to see them in person.

    Mallylee
    September 17, 2006 - 10:37 am
    Scrawler, that does paint a picture----a moving picture. I love the xpression 'moonsails' . I never heard it before. I imagine spinnakers, but I really dont know enough about sails to be at all sure

    Around 1812 a further sail was added, the skysail and a few East Indiamen and extreme clippers would set yet another sail which was referred to as flying handkerchiefs, skyscrapers, moonrakers, moonsails, stardusters or stargazers. The extra skysails were ineffective as far as adding to the speed of the ship but the studding sails (stuns'ls), which were set on booms run out from the yards, made a vast improvement when the wind was light and abaft of the beam. In the 1850's as ships got bigger a labour costs increased the top sails were

    Just googled in time to edit!

    MarjV
    September 18, 2006 - 06:43 am
    "And we affect each other without ever seeing each other, And never perhaps to see each other, is every bit as wonderful"

    A wonder of a poem is that extract on #718.

    Wonderful lines from Jim's post. So interesting to read about Anita and her recordings. Thanks (#718)

    MarjV
    September 18, 2006 - 06:48 am
    167. Thoughts

    OF Public Opinion;
    Of a calm and cool fiat, sooner or later, (How impassive! How certain and final!)
    Of the President with pale face, asking secretly to himself, What will the people say at last?
    Of the frivolous Judge—Of the corrupt Congressman, Governor, Mayor—Of such as these, standing helpless and exposed;
    Of the mumbling and screaming priest—(soon, soon deserted);
    Of the lessening, year by year, of venerableness, and of the dicta of officers, statutes, pulpits, schools;
    Of the rising forever taller and stronger and broader, of the intuitions of men and women, and of self-esteem, and of personality;
    —Of the New World—Of the Democracies, resplendent, en-masse;
    Of the conformity of politics, armies, navies, to them and to me,
    Of the shining sun by them—Of the inherent light, greater than the rest,
    Of the envelopment of all by them, and of the effusion of all from them.

    - - - -

    Half way thru the poem he envisions a positive note for humanity.

    Scrawler
    September 18, 2006 - 09:33 am
    What place is besieged, and vainly tries to raise the siege?
    Lo, I send to that place a commander, swift, brave, immortal,
    And with him horse and foot, and parks of artillery,
    And artillery-men, the deadliest that ever fired gun.

    "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    This poem surprised me a little. Considering what he saw in the Civil War, I can't help wonder as to why he felt like he describes the poet in the poem. After all it was the South that was besieged by the North, so it would seem to me that this poem is interesting because we know that Whitman was a staunch defender of the North.

    But than perhaps this poem was really not about the Civil War, but only about war in general.

    The 1800s saw many revolutions throughout the world so perhaps this was what Whitman referred to; the tiny countries being swallowed up by the European powers.

    Scrawler
    September 19, 2006 - 10:13 am
    Still though the one I sing,
    (One, yet of contradictions made,) I dedicate to Nationality,
    I leave in him revolt, (O latent right of insurrection! O
    quenches, indispensable fire!)

    "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    He says so much in so few words.

    Scrawler
    September 20, 2006 - 10:09 am
    Shut not your doors to me proud libraries,
    For that which was lacking on all your well-fill'd shelves, yet
    needed most, I bring,
    Forth from the war emerging, a book I have made,
    The words of my book nothing, the drift of it every thing,
    A book separate, not link'd with the rest nor felt by the
    intellect,
    But you ye untold latencies will trill to every page.

    "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    "The words of my book nothing, the drift of every thing." What an interesting concept.

    hats
    September 20, 2006 - 10:30 am
    Scrawler, thank you. I like "Shut Not Your Doors." I like the words "Not felt by the intellect." I think it is a book that touches our deepest emotions, no need of thought, just feeling.

    A book separate, not link'd with the rest nor felt by the
    intellect,
    But you ye untold latencies will trill to every page.


    I don't understand "untold latencies."

    annafair
    September 20, 2006 - 10:37 am
    Whatever bug I have is showing itself to be tenacious ..I am better but still not well...I have read all of the poems posted and Jim I remember the Anita Kerr singers as well as the others you mentioned ..I tried to make notes of the poems posted and the feelings expressed But My handwriting has changed from my legible Palmer method to something that is not fathomable ..I did write this down and I hope I have it right "And we affect each other without ever seeing each other and never perhaps to see each other is every bit as wonderful.
    And that is something I can agree. My birthday is in November and while I have been ill ..I thought it really doesnt matter what earthly age I am because I am far older than that I did not arrive here when I was born but was born because millions before me were born and I was the end and yet not the end Millions will be born again and it is wonderful if we would only realize that we are ALL related . when we look down on any one for any reason we are looking down at our "family" I can only hope that mankind will see that to destroy any is to destroy all. Whitman helped to send me on that path of thinking and I am grateful that he is not dead but lives through his words..

    I did choose a poem and I will have to paste it to remember what it is and why I chose it ..although the latter may not be possible .for sometimes I choose a poem for reasons I dont understand but accept that fact it was the right poem for me at the right time. It wasnt necessary for me to understand it is enough it chose to speak to me..

    I still have several days to hopefully say goodbye to this relentless germ..and hopefully I will return ..healed ..love to all anna

    Facing West From California's Shores


    FACING west, from California's shores,
    Inquiring, tireless, seeking what is yet unfound,
    I, a child, very old, over waves, towards the house of maternity, the
    land of migrations, look afar,
    Look off the shores of my Western Sea--the circle almost circled;
    For, starting westward from Hindustan, from the vales ofKashmere,
    From Asia--from the north--from the God, the sage, and the hero,
    From the south--from the flowery peninsulas, and the spice islands;
    Long having wander'd since--round the earth having wander'd,
    Now I face home again--very pleas'd and joyous;
    (But where is what I started for, so long ago?
    And why is it yet unfound?)


    Walt Whitman

    hats
    September 20, 2006 - 10:51 am
    Anna, It is good to see a post from you. Your words are always full of wisdom and love. Thank you for posting "Part of Me is Here" by Walt Whitman. It is very beautiful. Those last two lines are my favorite.

    (But where is what I started for, so long ago?
    And why is it yet unfound?)

    Scrawler
    September 21, 2006 - 09:11 am
    "But you ye untold latencies will trill to every page."

    I think Whitman was being a little sarcastic here.

    According to the dictionary: latency means the quality or state of being latent: Dormancy.

    Dormancy means the quality of being dormant.

    Poets to Come:

    Poets to come! orators, singers, musicians to come!
    Not to-day is to justify me and answer what I am for,
    But you, a new brood, native, athletic, continental, greater
    than before known,
    Arouse! for you must justify me.

    I myself but write one or two indicative words for the future,
    I but advance a moment only to wheel and hurry back in the
    darkness.

    I am a man who, sauntering along without fully stopping,
    turns a casual look upon you and then averts his face,
    Leaving it to you to prove and define it,
    Expecting the main things from you.

    "Whitman" "Inspirations"

    When I read this poem, I couldn't help wondering if Whitman was speaking about us. For aren't we by discussing his poems doing exactly what he wished - "leaving it to you to prove and define it/expecting the main things from you."

    Anna isn't it a wonder that we are all connected not only to the past and present, but in same way shaping the future as well.

    JoanK
    September 21, 2006 - 10:29 am
    It is indeed wonderful!!

    Anna is less connected than usual this morning. She spilled a tiny bit of milk into her keyboard. Even though she dried it out, it's all messed up. She can read our posts, but not write.

    My son says he thinks there's a way of handling that. If any of you know it, post it here. Otherwise, Anna is on her way to buy a new keyboard.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 21, 2006 - 12:44 pm
    Oh dear - it must be the month of computer glitches - I had been without internet service more days so far this month than all four years since I had it installed - the last bit they had to take my computer to the shop - it turned out my ethernet was not working, before that I was without for several days and ATT finally sent someone out who by accident when he picked up my modem and the light was still on although it was unplugged he discovered my modem was no good and he replaced it free of charge - then before that I had problems because on the 1st of every month they upgrade the system which knocks me out for a day or so... I should pay half price for my service this month but you know how that would go over...

    I sure hope it becomes worth while that with the new keyboard other benefits will result for Anna...

    Scrawler I just love that last poem - "I but advance a moment only to wheel and hurry back in the darkness" to me is about all our lives - I see the wheel not so much as an individual wheeling around but more as if we come to the great wheel that advances civilization and for a brief time we shoulder to the wheel and then back to our darkness, not just in death but the darkness of the old thinking that moves into each generation until little by little the darkness is lessened as more moving the wheel bring more enlightenment.

    I guess that is each of us taking a poets thoughts and making them our own...

    annafair
    September 22, 2006 - 08:24 am
    A beautiful black one with cream letters and only 15 dollars! WOW but I promise to never ever ever bring liquid near my keyboard again EVER...I chose a very brief poem today because I think like WW and agree with most of his thoughts ..he shared them with the future and they have meaning for all time..here it is ..

    Beautiful Women


    WOMEN sit, or move to and fro--some old, some young;
    The young are beautiful--but the old are more beautiful than the
    young.


    Walt Whitman

    hats
    September 22, 2006 - 08:32 am
    Anna, what a feel good poem! I love that one.

    Scrawler
    September 22, 2006 - 09:06 am
    Don't worry Anna. Years ago when I was still working, I shorted out my entire computer system at work when I spilled coffee on my keyboard. I doubt that it cost $15 to replace. The State of California was not amused.

    To You:

    Stranger, if you passing meet me and desire to speak to
    me, why should you not speak to me?
    And why should I not speak to you?

    "Whitman" "Inscriptions"

    Sound advice don't you think?

    hats
    September 22, 2006 - 09:21 am
    Very sound advice.

    annafair
    September 22, 2006 - 01:19 pm
    And I have always talked to strangers even if my mother more or less advised against it ...around Christmas last year I was in Walgreens and and older couple Not as old as I am were waiting to check out and she said something to him and he said something complimentary back and they hugged and I said Oh how sweet Can I hug you too? And we all hugged It was so nice. I have no idea who they were but they looked sweet and like someone I would love to know...My husband always loved to do the same but when pedophiles became known he was always wary of saying anything to children It was rather sad since he missed doing that and the children missed having someone say How pretty they were or what a handsome young boy you are...but I cant help but make comments and hope I look old enough and harmless enough no one minds .anna

    MarjV
    September 22, 2006 - 01:31 pm
    Absolutely love the short poem on beautiful women...Rah for WW!!!!

    Most days that I walk I speak to people coming toward me. Hello! Hi Ya! or Good Morning or maybe a comment on the day. We do have to be careful in this day and age where we speak to people,

    MarjV
    September 22, 2006 - 01:36 pm
    The final lines of 130 - GIVE ME THE SPLENDID, SILENT SUN in which he loves nature and what it gives but still adheres to his city :

    —Give me the shores and the wharves heavy-fringed with the black ships!
    . O such for me! O an intense life! O full to repletion, and varied!
    The life of the theatre, bar-room, huge hotel, for me!
    The saloon of the steamer! the crowded excursion for me! the torch-light procession!
    The dense brigade, bound for the war, with high piled military wagons following;
    People, endless, streaming, with strong voices, passions, pageants;
    Manhattan streets, with their powerful throbs, with the beating drums, as now;
    The endless and noisy chorus, the rustle and clank of muskets, (even the sight of the wounded;)
    Manhattan crowds, with their turbulent musical chorus—with varied chorus, and light of the sparkling eyes;
    Manhattan faces and eyes forever for me.

    ---------
    Myself, I will take a more quiet scene in which to live.
    WW can sure provoke powerful images.

    Scrawler
    September 23, 2006 - 09:24 am
    To the garden the world anew ascending,
    Potent mates, daughters, sons, preluding,
    The love, the life of their bodies, meaning and being,
    Curious here behold my resurrection after slumber,
    The revolving cycles in their wide sweep having brought me
    again,
    Amorous, mature, all beautiful to me, all wondrous,
    Existing I peer and penetrate still,
    Content with the present, content with the past,
    By my side or back of me Eve following,
    Or in front, and I following her just the same.

    "Whitman" "Children of Adam"

    I like the sentence "Content with the present, content with the past."

    MarjV
    September 23, 2006 - 02:48 pm
    By my side or back of me Eve following,
    Or in front, and I following her just the same

    = = = =

    I liked these gender inclusive lines from the poem above.

    MarjV
    September 23, 2006 - 02:53 pm
    78. Mother and Babe

    I SEE the sleeping babe, nestling the breast of its mother;
    The sleeping mother and babe—hush’d, I study them long and long

    - - - - -

    Reminds me of the paintings rendered of Mary and Jesus.

    hats
    September 23, 2006 - 04:05 pm
    MarjV, I love that poem. I can feel WW's excitement for life. He wanted to experience all of life. We can do it just by becoming more awake to what we see everyday.

    hats
    September 23, 2006 - 04:08 pm
    "Content with the present, content with the past,"


    Scrawler, This is my favorite line. It gives me a good goal. I haven't come to the point of being able to feel contentment through all the valleys and mountains that come my way.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 23, 2006 - 07:23 pm
    I have read "To the Garden the World" several times and several times aloud and still cannot grasp what it is about - I get that the garden stands for something other than a front or backyard garden but this poem is going right over my head - HELP - can someone tell me what it is saying...??

    hats
    September 24, 2006 - 01:05 am
    Nope, not me.

    MarjV
    September 24, 2006 - 08:49 am
    All I can see in that Garden poem are some absolutely lovely phrases. Otherwise, as a whole, it does nothing for me - nor does it challenge me

    It's quite right when we can find a word, phrase or sentence in a poem that is meaningful.

    hats
    September 24, 2006 - 09:22 am
    I am glad to hear that opinion. Sometimes, many times, I don't understand a whole poem immediately. Each reading adds on to my understanding.

    Scrawler
    September 24, 2006 - 09:45 am
    I thought "To the Garden the World" was talking about the Garden of Eden and how the world sees it or how at least Whitman sees it, but I could be wrong.

    I am He that Aches with Love:

    I am he that aches with amorous love;
    Does the earth gravitae? does not all matter, aching, attract
    all matter?
    So the body of me to all I meet or know.

    "Whitman" "Children of Adam"

    I think this is more than just a love poem to a particular person. To my way of thinking, Whitman was in love with "everything" in the world and he felt about it much the same way we would feel about a "lover."

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 24, 2006 - 11:14 am
    ah thanks Scrawler - now I can see it - if the garden is the Garden of Paradise where the seeds of life began with Adam and Eve - then the poem talks really about the continuation of the circle of man which also expands and therefore the value of Eve is a question to consider since it is the Eves of the world that continue and expand the circle of man.

    MarjV
    September 24, 2006 - 11:50 am
    That's cool Barbara!!!

    hats
    September 24, 2006 - 01:23 pm
    "Curious here behold my resurrection after slumber,"

    But how would you explain the resurrection???

    MarjV
    September 24, 2006 - 01:54 pm
    Good question, Hats.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 24, 2006 - 02:14 pm
    as the birth of a child??? or the continuation of ideas that you brought to the world and are resurrected as folks read your ideas??? I do not know - just thinking aloud...

    MarjV
    September 24, 2006 - 04:21 pm
    " the continuation of ideas that you brought to the world and are resurrected as folks read your ideas???"

    Now that is an very interesting thought re resurrection!

    hats
    September 25, 2006 - 12:09 am
    That is a very interesting idea.

    Scrawler
    September 25, 2006 - 09:01 am
    Ages and ages returning at intervals,
    Undestroy'd, wandering immortal,
    Lusty, phallic, with the potent original loins, perfectly sweet,
    I, chanter of Adamic songs,
    Through the new garden of the West, the great cities calling,
    Deliriate, thus prelude what is generated, offering these,
    Bathing myself, bathing my songs in Sex,
    Offspring of my loins.

    "Whitman" "Children of Adam"

    I can see that the "resurrection" could be the re-thinking of ideas and poems, stories, and other materials that may have not been accepted in a particular time period, but than were accepted at a later time. For example Whitman's poems were not popular during his lifetime, but they gained a whole new "life" during the 1960's and again in the 1970s.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 25, 2006 - 09:23 am
    He is talking of his poems as his children isn't he...

    I read this and was riveted - most of his work I agree with this or that - Or I am in awe at how filled with courage and nobility - however, this one spoke softly to me and made me think of how protective it would be to experience death with this kind of friend.

    To One Shortly to Die

    1

    FROM all the rest I single out you, having a message for you:
    You are to die—Let others tell you what they please, I cannot
    prevaricate,
    I am exact and merciless, but I love you—There is no escape for you.

    Softly I lay my right hand upon you—you just feel it,
    I do not argue—I bend my head close, and half envelope it,
    I sit quietly by—I remain faithful,
    I am more than nurse, more than parent or neighbor,
    I absolve you from all except yourself, spiritual, bodily—that is
    eternal—you yourself will surely escape,
    The corpse you will leave will be but excrementitious.

    2

    The sun bursts through in unlooked-for directions!
    Strong thoughts fill you, and confidence—you smile!
    You forget you are sick, as I forget you are sick,
    You do not see the medicines—you do not mind the weeping friends—I am
    with you,
    I exclude others from you—there is nothing to be commiserated,
    I do not commiserate—I congratulate you.

    hats
    September 25, 2006 - 09:53 am
    Barbara, this one takes my breath away. I have nothing to say. Walt Whitman has said it all so well in his poem.

    MarjV
    September 25, 2006 - 11:24 am
    How refreshing to have an upfront death conversation. Just like we learned to do in Hospice is that is what you perceived the patient wanted.. Pretending does not honor the person who is dieing. And WW does honor in this poem.

    annafair
    September 25, 2006 - 03:51 pm
    And I love the poems shared and the words spoken by WW and my you as well....There hasnt been one of his poems I havent felt connected to in some way..I certainly agree with the last one and the honesty of it..My husband died at home in his bed...and he wanted to go and what could I do but let him go. one of the last things he said was "LET ME GO HOME! LET ME GO HOME! it wasnt his mortal home he wanted permission to go ..but his heavenly home It was awful for me since I so wanted him to stay a bit longer I realized I had made him linger past the time he wished to leave. So that night I held him,thank GOD out loud for the day for us for our family ., and while still holding him I also said God forgive me but please grant him his wish Let him go HOME and that night he died in his sleep with me laying beside him and my arm across his chest ..it hurts to write that but when I heard the last breath I thanked God for taking him...it was a gentle departure ..a wonderful way to go..I am sure I have mentioned it before but when I miss him and of course I do ,,I remember that last evening, friends and family had been there all day and our oldest and her husband was still there and I thought we should all be so lucky,...

    I think I am better but this whatever I have had has fooled me 3 times so I am just going to say I am here.. and here is the poem I chose., My timer on my oven is telling me dinner is ready back later to comment ..anna

    A Noiseless Patient Spider


    A NOISELESS, patient spider,
    I mark'd, where, on a little promontory, it stood, isolated;
    Mark'd how, to explore the vacant, vast surrounding,
    It launch'd forth filament, filament, filament, out of itself;
    Ever unreeling them--ever tirelessly speeding them.


    And you, O my Soul, where you stand,
    Surrounded, surrounded, in measureless oceans of space,
    Ceaselessly musing, venturing, throwing,--seeking the spheres, to
    connect them;
    Till the bridge you will need, be form'd--till the ductile anchor hold;
    Till the gossamer thread you fling, catch somewhere, O my Soul.


    Walt Whitman

    MarjV
    September 26, 2006 - 05:25 am
    The Spider and the Soul! What a comparison - and our Soul launches in loving I say.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 26, 2006 - 07:28 am
    How vulnerable he shows us to be with "Till the gossamer thread you fling, catch somewhere, O my Soul."

    Scrawler
    September 26, 2006 - 02:37 pm
    I came across Whitman's poem just before my son died and once again just before my husband died. Somehow it helped me to understand what it was I had to do to see that they safely got home. I remember I really had to fight with the doctors to give both of them morphine to make their deaths more dignified and peaceful.

    Facing West from California's Shores:

    Facing west from California's shores,
    Inquiring, tireless, seeking what is yet unfound,
    I, a child, very old, over waves, towrds the house of
    maternity, the land of mirgrations, look afar,
    Look off the shores of my Western sea, the circle almost
    circled;
    For starting westward from Hindustan, from the vales of
    Kashmere,
    From Asia, from the north, from the God, the sage, and the
    hero,
    From the south, from the flowery peninsulas and the spice
    islands,
    Long having wander'd since, round the earth having wander'd,
    Now I face home again, very pleas'd and joyous,
    (But where is what I started for so long ago?
    And why is it yet unfound?)

    "Whitman" "Children of Adam"

    I wonder myself: (But where is what I started for so long ago? And why is it yet unfound?)But I suppose that is what life is all about. I'm very found of saying that it is the "journey" that is important.

    annafair
    September 26, 2006 - 03:27 pm
    Another day when I truly feel better .. I am glad you liked the Patient Spider It says to me we too are spinning our webs and like the spider we too hope ours will catch somewhere ..to me it is lovely to describe our lives ..and our jouneys end...

    Scrawler I can understand why this poem meant something special to you I dont worry about the place I have started for .. the older I get I am like you The journey is important..and the end will come when it is time ..even as I am closer to that end each day I awake with a sense of joy knowing it is there and I have lived each day of the journey Looked about and saw the world ,, enjoyed its beauty , and loved its people ..

    This is the poem I chose for today I think Whitman is saying he will ask everyone what they mean How did they come to be? I know once I wrote a poem that asked why a river is called a river? and why a tree is called a tree and why some trees are palms and some are oaks and some are scrubby and some are giants.. Where did it all begin ? and does it really matter? each has its own place and each is worth its own worth ..each is valuable .. I dont know But Whitman seems to ask the questions I have asked Not necessarily to others but to myself ..hope your days are good..anna

    I Will Take An Egg Out Of The Robin's Nest


    I WILL take an egg out of the robin's nest in the orchard,
    I will take a branch of gooseberries from the old bush in the garden,
    and go and preach to the world;
    You shall see I will not meet a single heretic or scorner,
    You shall see how I stump clergymen, and confound them,
    You shall see me showing a scarlet tomato, and a white pebble from the beach.


    Walt Whitman

    Scrawler
    September 27, 2006 - 02:36 pm
    Triva: "Americans began to eat tomatoes at about this time (1834), but not until 1900 would they become popular. Despite the fact that tomatoes had been introduced into Europe from Mexico as ornamental plants in 1550, and were soon afterward eaten in Italy, they were popularly regarded in the U.S.as poisonous and in France as an aphrodisiac." ~ "What Happened When"

    I thought since we are coming to an end in discussing Whitman we might discuss his two most popular poems. Both are about President Lincoln:

    O Captain! My Captain!

    O Captain! my Captain! our fearful trip is done,
    The ship has weather'd every rack, the prize we sought is won,
    The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
    While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring;
    But O heart! heart! heart!
    O the bleeding drops of red,
    Where on the deck my Captain lies,
    Fallen cold and dead.

    O Captain! my Captain! rise up and hear the bells;
    Rise up - for you the flag is flung - for you the bugle trills,
    For you bouquets and ribbon'd wreaths - for you the shores
    a-crowing,
    For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;
    Here Captain! dear father!
    This arm beneath your head!
    It is some dream that on the deck,
    You've fallen cold and dead.

    My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still,
    My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will,
    The ship is anchor'd safe and sound, its voyage closed and done,
    From fearful trip the victor ship comes in with object won;

    Exult O shores, and ring O bells!
    But I with mournful tread,
    Walk the deck my Captain lies,
    Fallen cold and dead.

    "Whitman" "Memories of President Lincoln"

    Although historians can't be sure that Whitman ever met Lincoln in the White House, they do agree that when Lincoln rode out to Soldier's Home [Lincoln's summer home] he often rode past Whitman as he walked toward Washington City. When Lincoln saw Whitman he would tip his hat to Whitman in recognition.

    Whitman made the comment to his brother that only in America would a president show respect to the common man. He was a great admirer of Lincoln and before Lincoln became president often voiced his opinion that Lincoln was the man to lead the country.

    According to my research Lincoln loved Whitman's poems and would often read them aloud to various statesmen and visitors, but Mrs. Lincoln didn't like Whitman's poems and refused to have him in the White House.

    Scrawler
    September 28, 2006 - 09:28 am
    When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd:

    1

    When lilacs last in the dooryard bloom'd
    And the great star early droop'd in the western sky in the
    night,
    I mourn'd, and yet shall mourn with ever returning spring,

    Ever-returning spring, trinity sure to me you bring,
    Lilac blooming perennial and drooping star in the west,
    And thought of him I love.

    2

    O powerful western fallen star!
    O shades of night - O moody, tearful night!
    O great star disappear'd - O the black murk that hides the star!
    O cruel hands that hold me powerless - O helpless soul of me!
    O harsh surrounding cloud that will not free my soul.

    3

    In the dooryard fronting an old farm-house near the white-
    wash'd palings,
    Stands the lilac-bush tall-growing with heart-shaped leaves of
    rich green,
    With many a pointed blossom rising delicate, with the
    perfume strong I love,
    With every leaf a miracle - and from this bush in the dooryard,
    With delicate-color'd blossoms and heart shaped leaves of
    rich green,
    A sprig with its flower I break.

    4

    In the swamp in secluded reccesses,
    A shy and hidden bird is warbling a song,

    Solitary the thrush,
    The hermit withdrawn to himself, avoiding the settlements,
    Sings by himself a song,
    Song of the bleeding throat,
    Death's outlet song of life (for well dear brother I know,
    If thou wast not granted to sing thou would'st surely die.)

    5

    Over the breast of spring, the land, amid cities,
    Amid lanes and through old woods, where lately the violets
    peep'd from the ground, spotting the gray debris,
    Amid the grass in the fields each side of the lanes, passing
    the endless grass,
    Passing the yellow-spear'd wheat, every grain from its,
    shroud in the dark-brown fields uprisen,
    Passing the apple-tree blows of white and pink in the
    orchards,
    Carrying a corpse to where it shall rest in the grave,
    Night and day journeys a coffin.

    6

    Coffin that passes through lanes and streets,
    Through day and night with the great cloud darkening the
    land,
    With the pomp of the inloop'd flags with the cities draped
    in black,
    With the show of the States themselves as of crape-veil'd
    women standing,
    With processions long and winding and the flambeaus of the
    night,
    With the countless torches lit, with the silent sea of faces
    and the unbared heads,
    With the waiting depot, the arriving coffin, and the sombre
    faces,
    With dirges through the night, with the thousand voices
    rising strong and solemn,
    With all the mournfull voices of the dirges pour'd around
    the coffin,
    The dim-lit churches and the shuddering organs - where
    amid these you journey,
    With the tolling tolling bells' perpectual clang,
    Here, coffin that slowly passes,
    I give you my sprig of lilac.

    to be continued

    MarjV
    September 28, 2006 - 10:19 am
    Here's a Study Note I found pertaining to "Lilacs...."

    Lincoln died on the morning of April 15, 1865 and, after remaining in Washington until April 21, his body was carried in a funeral train through Baltimore, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, New York, Albany, Buffalo, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis and Chicago. He was buried at Springfield, Illinois on May 4.

    hats
    September 28, 2006 - 10:22 am
    Thank you Scrawler and MarjV. I love this poem. It's amazing how the words catch the sorrow and pain of a death. WW's talent works so well in this poem. His words make the funeral, the sights and sounds live on forever.

    Jim in Jeff
    September 28, 2006 - 03:44 pm
    We could enjoy discussing Whitman's poems here forever and a day, and not be bored. What a prolific poet, and what worthwhile things he ALWAYS had to say to us! A great September poet choice, fair Anna!

    Thanks also to some of you who posted "I remember Anita Kerr" (my sweetheart). The Anita Kerr Singers was a harmony quartet that provided studio-recording background for over a dozen popular and C/W singers in Nashville. AKS also produced recordings then in their own name. Anita's golden pear-tone voice was always lead soloist. The others in her 4-voices group were harmony singers. Anita also arranged music, played synthesizers, produced her and others' recordings, and united with poet Rod McKuen on several poetry/music hit recordings of the 1970s.

    Today though, I'd like to share a Whitman citation read by Eddie Arnold at C/W great Chet Atkin's funeral July 3, 2001 at Ryman Auditorium in Nashville, TN:

    Ladies and Gentlemen:

    If I can get through this speech without completely breaking down, it will be a miracle...because I have lost a friend, a cohort, and a fellow artist in Chet Atkins. We will never see as much talent in one man again. If you ever heard of any man who could do it all, it was this man.

    Chet was married to Leona for 56 years so he must have done something right. He was one of the finest record producers this or any other town will ever see and certainly one of the greatest musicians who ever lived. As a matter of fact, when we talk about who is the greatest guitar player, Chet's name is never mentioned. You take him and just set him aside, and then you argue about the rest of them.

    If a man can love a man, I love Chet Atkins. I want to read a few words from the pen of Walt Whitman before we leave you today:

    "Lift me close to your face till I whisper,
    What you are holding is in reality no book, nor part of a book,
    It is a man, flushed and full blooded -- it is I -- So long!
    We must separate awhile -- Here! take from my lips this kiss,
    Whoever you are, I give it especially to you;
    So long - and I hope we shall meet again."

    Goodbye, Chet. (Eddie Arnold at Chet Atkins' funeral

    Walt Whitman...a man miles ahead of his peers and time; a renaissance-man for all ages, IMHO.

    P.S. - Yes, Anita's album of Whitman readings "In The Soul" included this poem among her Whitman selections.

    JoanK
    September 28, 2006 - 05:34 pm
    What wonderful poems. With my love of birds, the verse about the Hermit Thrush always makes me tear up. Ending with:

    "well dear brother I know, If thou wast not granted to sing thou would'st surely die".

    surely that is true of all of us.

    Alliemae
    September 29, 2006 - 08:18 am
    Oh, how I have missed this discussion and all of you!!

    I'm calling with my good news. I've decided to only do the one language (Greek 101) for this year so will have time to come back to the group a bit more frequently...and it seems just in time for a new poet!!

    I've just come on so it will take a bit of time to catch up on all of your posts...don't want to miss any of your poems and posts.

    I'll be back in a bit...Alliemae

    hats
    September 29, 2006 - 08:21 am
    Hi Alliemae, I am glad you will spend more time with us. I miss your comments.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 29, 2006 - 09:42 am
    Rah rah - wonderful to see you back - and Hat talk about someone who has great comments - yours are always terrific - between you and Marj and Scrawler's daily sharing this has become a favorite discussion that I love stopping in to hear what is being said.

    I must say that Walt has done himself proud - I came to the month not filled with enthusiasm - I had an impression of Walt Whitmann based on the last two poems Scrawler shared and that we memorized in grade school - back when students did that sort of thing - memorize poems - the little I read of his work I thought he was pompous until we started to share and his world opened to astonish and amaze me - I am a fan - I put him right up there with my favorites Dylan Thomas, Octavio Paz and my other new favorite as a result of this discussion group - Pablo Neruda.

    Scrawler
    September 29, 2006 - 02:25 pm
    7

    (Nor for you, for one alone,
    Blossoms and branches green to coffins all I sing,
    For fresh as the morning, thus would I chant a song for you
    O sane and sacred death.

    All over bouquets of roses,
    O death, I cover you over with roses and early lilies,
    But mostly and now the lilac that blooms the first,
    Copious I break, I break the sprigs from the bushes,
    With loaded arms I come, pouring for You,
    For you and the coffins all of you O death.)

    8

    O western orb sailing the heaven,
    Now I know what you must have meant as a month since I
    walk'd,
    As I walk'd in silence the transparent shadowy night,<BR< after night,
    As you droop'd from the sky low down as if in my side,
    (while the other stars all look'd on,)
    As we wander'd together the solemn night, (for something I
    know not what kept me from sleep,) As the night advanced, and I saw on the rim of the west
    how full you were of woe,
    As I stood on the rising ground in the breeze in the cool
    transparent night,
    As I watch'd where you pass'd and was lost in the
    netherward black of the night,
    As my soul in its trouble dissatisfied sank, as where you
    sad orb,
    Concluded, dropt in the night, and was gone.

    9

    Sing on there in the swamp,
    O singer bashful and tender, I hear your notes, I hear your
    call,
    I hear, I come presently, I understand you,
    But a moment I linger, for the lustrous star has destain'd me,
    The star my departing comrade holds and detains me.

    10

    O how shall I warble myself for the dead one there I loved?
    And how shall I deck my song for the large sweet soul that
    has gone?
    And what shall my perfume be for the grave of him I love?

    Sea-winds blown from east and west,
    Blown from the Eastern sea and blown from the Western
    sea, till there on the prairies meeting,
    These and with these and the breath of my chant,
    I perfume the grave of him I love.

    11

    O what shall I hang on the chamber walls?
    And what shall the pictures be that I hang on the walls,
    To adorn the burial-house of him I love?

    Pictures of growing spring and farms and homes,
    With the Fourth-month eve at sundown, and the gray
    smoke lucid and bright,
    With floods of the yellow gold of the gorgeous, indolent,
    sinking sun, burning, expanding the air,
    With the frest sweet herbage under foot, and the pale green
    leaves of the trees prolific,
    In the distance the flowing glaze, the breast of the river,
    with a wind-dapple here and there,
    With ranging hills on the banks, with many a line against
    the sky and shadows,
    And the city at hand with dwellings so dense, and stacks of
    chimneys,
    And all the scenes of life and the workshops, and the
    workmen homeward returning.

    12

    Lo, body and soul - this land,
    My own Manhattan with spires, and the sparkling and
    hurrying tides, and ships,
    The varied and ample land, the South and the North in the
    light, Ohio's shores and flashing Missouri,
    And ever the far-spreading prairies cover'd with grass and corn.

    To be continued:

    annafair
    September 29, 2006 - 06:54 pm
    I feel I have missed this whole month ..I know you understand I have been ill but I HATE missing out . I know I can read what you have said and shared and I certainly am glad of that but to be honest I have felt so poorly and exhausted from this spell I am not sure I always comprehended .....I hate to leave Whitman behind .I guess because I havent been able to really give him the attention he derserves SO I am doubly grateful for all of you keeping things going For sharing your favorite poems and your appreciation for Whitman's views Like Barbara I am not sure I was going to appreciate Whitman. My reading of him only truly started when I made the decision for us to make him or poet of the month SO now I reluctantly leave him behind. And I have to write and introduction for October's poet of the month ..usually I have that ready long before this so that is my job for this evening.. I did choose one last poem and it seems very appropiate for our discussion of Whitman and his wonderful descriptive poetry ... anna

    Aboard At A Ship's Helm


    ABOARD, at a ship's helm,
    A young steersman, steering with care.


    A bell through fog on a sea-coast dolefully ringing,
    An ocean-bell--O a warning bell, rock'd by the waves.


    O you give good notice indeed, you bell by the sea-reefs ringing,
    Ringing, ringing, to warn the ship from its wreck-place.


    For, as on the alert, O steersman, you mind the bell's admonition,
    The bows turn,--the freighted ship, tacking, speeds away under her
    gray sails,
    The beautiful and noble ship, with all her precious wealth, speeds
    away gaily and safe.


    But O the ship, the immortal ship! O ship aboard the ship!
    O ship of the body--ship of the soul--voyaging, voyaging, voyaging.


    Walt Whitman

    MarjV
    September 30, 2006 - 05:32 am
    I also was not enthused about Whitman so this was a good eye opener. I had only read a couple of his poems and they seemed so dragged out and boring. Now I have a different viewpoint altogether

    And here we go on to another and the last lines of the ship poem are so perfect: O ship of the body--ship of the soul--voyaging, voyaging, voyaging

    it may be we have wrinkles and age numbers , however, our hearts and minds are as the young steersman at the helm.

    annafair
    September 30, 2006 - 09:18 am
    it may be we have wrinkles and age numbers , however, our hearts and minds are as the young steersman at the helm. OH I love that ...and we are I see it in every post There is enthusiasm and a joy at discovering these poets and there poems. An eagerness to know more about them and where they come from and why they write what they do! Learning keeps us young and SHARING does as well My mind has never been so active! Thanks to each of you..see you tomorrow ..anna

    Scrawler
    September 30, 2006 - 09:43 am
    13

    Sing on, sing on you gray-brown bird,
    Sing from the swamps, the recesses, pour your chant from
    the bushes,
    Limitless out of the dusk, out of the cedars and pines.

    Sing on dearest brother, warble your reedy song,
    Loud human song, with voice of uttermost woe.

    O liquid and free and tender!
    O wild and loose to my soul - O wondrous singer!
    You only I hear - yet the star holds me, (but will soon depart,)
    Yet the lilac with mastering odor holds me.

    14

    Now while I sat in the day and look'd forth,
    In the close of the day with its light and the fields of spring,
    and the farmers preparing their crops,
    In the large unconscious scenery of my land with its lakes
    and forests,
    In the heavenly aerial beauty, (after the perturb'd winds and
    the storms,)
    Under the arching heavens of the afternoon swift passing,
    and the voices of children and women,
    The many-moving sea-tides, and I saw the ships how they
    sail'd,
    And the summer approaching with richness, and the fields
    all busy with labor,
    And the infinite separate houses, how they all went on, each
    with its meals and minutia of daily usages,
    And the streets how their throbbings throbb'd and the cities
    pent - lo, then and there,
    Falling upon them all and among them all, enveloping me
    with the rest,
    Appear'd the cloud, appear'd the long black trail,
    Ad I knew death, its thought, and the sacred knowledge of
    death,

    Then with the knowledge of death as walking one side of me
    And the thought of death close-walking the other side of me,
    And I in the middle as with companions, and as holding the
    hands of companions,
    I fled forth to the hiding receiving night that talks not,
    Down to the shores of the wther, the path by the swamp in
    the dimness,
    To the solemn shadowy cedars and ghostly pines so still.

    And the singer so shy to the ret receiv'd me,
    The gray-brown bird I know receiv'd us comrades three,
    And he sang the carol of death, and a verse for him I love.

    From deep secluded recesses,
    From the fragrant cedars and the ghostly pines so still,
    Came the carol of the bird.

    And the charm of the carol rapt me,
    As I held as if by their hands my comrades in the night,
    And the voice of my spirit tallied the song of the bird.

    Come lovely and soothing death,
    Undulate round the world, serenely arriving, arriving,
    In the day, in the night, to all, to each,
    Sooner or later delicate death.

    Prais'd be the fathomless universe,
    For life and joy, and for objects and knowledge curious,
    And for love, sweet love - but praise! praise! praise!
    For the sure-unwinding arms of cool-enfolding death,
    Dark mother always gliding near with soft feet,
    Have none chanted for thee a chant of fullest welcome?
    Then I chant it for thee, I glorify thee above all,
    I bring thee a song that when thou must indeed come, come
    unfalteringly.

    to be continued

    annafair
    September 30, 2006 - 11:29 am
    When I was researching for his month's poet I noted there was an email address for Mr Kooser So this morning I emailed him and told him about our discussion here and asked if he would consider stopping by and make a comment AND HE IS GOING TO DO THAT! I am so exited and will give him the link etc when we are up and going and actually posting. He feels honored that we have chosen him to study! I know you all will join me in feeling we are honored.. will keep you advised ..anna

    MarjV
    September 30, 2006 - 12:19 pm
    Well done, Anna.

    Alliemae: so glad to have you returning.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    September 30, 2006 - 01:16 pm
    Wow - marvelous Anna - this years plan has been so enriching - I am blessed that there is a few of us among who I can read and share - who are into reading the work of a poet and finding more than a passing read would provide - this has been a wonderful experience.

    I cannot say enough how my opinion of the work of Walt Whitmann has changed - his poetry about death was especially meaningful - to celebrate death - oh how I like that - I had been thinking I would love it if my funeral included balloons and a sing a long of the old time favorites - a party to see me off on my next journey.

    hats
    September 30, 2006 - 01:52 pm
    Anna, thank you for writing Mr. Kooser. I am so excited. What a different experience to have the poet here with us while reading and thinking about his words.

    Barbara, I agree. Walt Whitman's "poetry about death was especially meaningful." I like your "balloon" idea too. When I can begin to think of death as a "celebration," I have come a long way. I am almost there.

    Alliemae
    September 30, 2006 - 04:28 pm
    My sentiments exactly!!

    Thanks all for welcoming me back. I'm missed you all so!

    I'm still going through the wonderful poems and posts of and about WW but peeked a little at our October poets poetry and he has already stolen my heart! Anna, how wonderful that you called him and how generous of him to come see us!

    Must say that I was so impressed by September's poet I'm giving a book of Whitman's poetry to each of my older grandchildren and at least one of my sons.

    Yes, as you all have said...this has been a wonderfully planned year and I'll be forever grateful to have found this room. I used to think poetry was something I did when I was lonely...and I probably will still read it to keep me company...but reading it and sharing it with all of you is an experience I can't fully explain. Each one of you opens my mind a little wider to see something I saw but just didn't 'get' till you expressed your thoughts and feelings about it.

    Till 'October'!! Hugs, Alliemae

    annafair
    September 30, 2006 - 04:30 pm
    I have said for years I want balloons at my funeral ..I want everyone to tell jokes about all the crazy things I have said and done..I want them to celebrate my life ..when I was young and went to Irish wakes they were never sad affairs unless the person who died was very young. They were held in the homes and of course at that time no had baby sitters so even small children came and I can remember I never wanted to miss a "wake" I recall a lot of laughter and funny things said about the deceased and no one seemed to find it odd. Now that Hats thinks she would like balloons as well I think I will open a balloons for every thing shop! And one thing I told Mr Kooser was how important it was for poetry lovers to have this place to discuss and enjoy poetry..A few years ago I did some research out of curiosity and it seems there has been a resurgence of interest in poetry Reading other poets but also learning to use your own voice and write poetry as well. Locally we have a number of places that offer open mic opportunties for poets to come and read and share..It is so special and what truly impresses me are the young people who share thier poems SOme are so good it takes your breath away to read them ( they kindly give me copies so I can follow their poem)that cheers me more than new authors ...of fiction etc. in poetry the poet speaks in fiction often a fiction character speaks and it is to move the story along but when I read what a poet says it is almost like they have opened their soul and allowed me to see what they see and feel That is the way it affects me ..Typing is becoming much easier when it is not interrupted by a coughing spell HOORAY ..anna

    annafair
    September 30, 2006 - 04:43 pm
    I AM SO GLAD you will be with us more now I meant to email you but somehow time seems to collapse on me and I find I am not doing all I had planned . You add so much to our discussion and are keenly missed when not here .IF you are glad you found us WE ARE GLAD AS WELL>.

    And you have caught something I have always missed when I read poetry It was such a lonely time.. I always wanted to have someone to discuss what the poet was saying..Over the years I had friends who would read the same book and discuss it but true poetry lovers are rare ...fiction and even non fiction helps to pass the time but poetry does more for me IT FEEDS MY SOUL..not just my mind and as I move into the next decade of my life my soul is what needs feeding...and each of you aid me in that quest and I can see you too bask in the warmth of words and feelings we find in a the poetry of a good poet,

    looking forward to October ..anna

    patwest
    September 30, 2006 - 05:31 pm
    A new month and a new poet, Ted Kooser.

    So a new Poetry page has been opened HERE

    This discussion is read only.