Poetry ~ 2006 Part 1
patwest
February 28, 2006 - 12:52 pm
A place to share and discuss your favorite poems.
"Here in this discussion we can do what my poetry group does in my home.
We can allow our feelings to be known...to share through our readings and writings what others may never know of us. I am so excited by the prospect and I hope you are as well.
Share the poems that have moved you, be they your own or others." ......Annafair




An Index of Poets in Representative Poetry Online -- an invaluable treasury of poetry old and new | Darwinian Poetry -- an experiment in computer-generated poetry influenced by reader's selections

---Poetry~Archives

"A man is known by the company his mind keeps."
....Thomas Bailey Aldrich

The JUNE poetry discussion will highlight the poems of
Chilean Poet ~ Pablo Neruda.
Born Neftali Ricardo Reyes Basoalto, he wrote under the pen name Pablo Neruda adopting the last name from the famed Czechoslovakian poet Jan Neruda.  At the age of 13 he began to contribute articles and his first poem to a daily publication. The interesting thing we have found is how much the poems from a wide range of poets affect us and how we can relate to the poems.  Pablo Neruda won the Nobel Prize for Literature 1971.  Like all poets Neruda’s poems reflects his life experiences.  They were not ours but in his poems we can find works that speak to us. Come join us.
Poems of Pablo Neruda |-| Pablo Neruda – Biography


While we are enjoying this month's poet waiting in the wings are other poets.
In JULY we will visit Australia and the poems of Henry Lawson. Poetry of Henry Lawson
In AUGUST we will return to one of America's poets Edna St.Vincent Millay. Poetry of Edna St.Vincent Millay
Plan to be with us as we read the poems from these two worthwhile poets.


Your Poetry Discussion Leader is:Annafair


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patwest
February 28, 2006 - 01:06 pm
Remember to subscribe!

annafair
February 28, 2006 - 02:37 pm
In poetry and are starting a new month and a new poet it was suggested by Pat we begin with a new start. Our past posts will be read only for a bit before being archived, I want to thank all of you for your thoughtful posts, for poems shared and for being part of this discussion. I am a discussion leader but one cant lead unless there are those who bring their thoughts to share. All who have come have certainly given this discussion thier time, their efforts, their songs. I am grateful to be among you ..

I have chosen a small section from one of the three books by Heaney I have in front of me. When you read it you will know why I chose this one, It is part of longer poem which he calls 10 Glosses. I am not sure what that means but it is divided into 10 separate thoughts and I chose the second one and here it is ..anna

NOW ONTO A GLORIOUS MONTH while we share and study the poems of our poet of the month.

2 THE CATECHISM
 

Q.and A. come back, They "formed my mind." "Who is my neighbour?" "My neighbour is all mankind."
 

Seamus Heaney

MarjV
March 1, 2006 - 06:32 am
I must say- I read the poem "Personal Helicon" linked in the bio above. Reading it was good. Listening to it a whole different explosion of emotion. What a voice and what "depth" it added. Think of the personal wells we look into. Some frightening; some lovely.

And I would say his poems definitely bear reading aloud to yourself or your kittys, dog, the air around you.

A quote from the above bio website: " Mount Helicon is a mountain in Greece, that was, in classical mythology, sacred to Apollo and the Muses. From it flowed two fountains of poetic inspiration. Heaney is here presenting his own source of inspiration, the "dark drop" into personal and cultural memory, made present by the depths of the wells of his childhood. Now, as a man, he is too mature to scramble about on hands and knees, looking into the deep places of the earth, but he has his poetry. This serves as his glimpse into places where "there is no reflection," but only the sound of a rhyme, like a bucket, setting "the darkness echoing." This is the final poem in his first volume, and, together with his first poem in that volume, "Digging," acts as a bookend to the collection, utilizing this successful metaphor. "

Hats
March 1, 2006 - 06:44 am
MarjV,

What you have written is so beautiful. Thank you for starting us off on our next journey. Thanks to AnnaFair too.

I am so happy Seamus Heaney's bio is in the header. I can refer back to it again and again. I am really enjoying Seamus Heaney's poetry. His poems remind me of a friendly man, a man who loves his family and home. He is gifted because he notices the ordinary portraits of life. A wildflower, soil, a mother's call to a child would never go unnoticed by Seamus Heaney. I think his ear would lift. He would smile and know he had a poem in the works.

Seamus Heaney reminds us that all things are beautiful.

Hats
March 1, 2006 - 06:52 am
After Liberation


Sheer, bright-shining spring, spring as it used to be,
Cold in the morning, but as broad daylight
Swings open, the everlasting sky
Is a marvel to survivors.


Seamus Heaney

I have not written the whole poem, only a part. Seamus Heaney catches my mood in this one. I am ready for spring. He makes me realize that the cold mornings are only welcoming the warmer days ahead.

I love his words "the everlasting sky." Too often I do not look up at the sky. That is so sad because the sky is a neverending story of beauty. From moment to moment it changes color, shifts clouds, and later brings on the night stars. After reading Seamus Heaney I am sure to look up at the sky often.

MarjV
March 1, 2006 - 07:04 am
We have a morning like he describes in those lines above: Sheer and bright shining.

Thanks for your thoughts, Hats. I, too, love looking at the sky. Having been a farmer's daughter I learned from dad's habit of always studying the sky for signs of change.

THese poems bring signs of change for me- digging a little deeper; taking a little more time to read the posted remarks and poems.

I like the idea of sometimes taking a portion of the poem to post and comment on . Often that is what hits us - a portion instead of the whole.

Hats
March 1, 2006 - 07:07 am
MarjV,

I think so too. I am not finished the bio yet. I am reading it slowly and relishing each word. I love his face. He looks so neighborly, like he would never meet a stranger. In this world where people are too busy to wave or say hello, his face is welcoming.

Hats
March 1, 2006 - 07:12 am
I bet growing up on a farm is wonderful. The sky must look bigger in the wide open spaces. No houses are blocking the view of the sky.

Hats
March 1, 2006 - 07:47 am
"Some critics have placed Heaney in a no-win situation; he is condemned either for confronting too strongly the situation in his homeland, or taken to task for remaining aloof from it. Nevertheless, some of his most convincing elegies deal with friends and family he has lost to the Troubles. "Casualty," a poem about a Catholic friend murdered by a bomb set by the Provisional Irish Republican Army in a Protestant pub, gives us another look at the tribal warfare in Northern Ireland. His questioning of his friend's responsibility for his own death realizes the ambiguous nature, the muddling of right and wrong, that grips Northern Ireland today. And yet, what is important is not placing blame, but the recognition of what remains to those who live, memories and sadness."

This quote is from the above biography. I always feel that emotional pain makes us become more in touch with our inner selves. I think poets who have suffered write those types of poems which can reach into another person's soul. It is so comforting to know our pain is understood. To somebody out there our tears are not just water but our hearts opening up looking for understanding.

MarjV
March 1, 2006 - 07:57 am
Anna- I think this following link would be good in the heading because it is Heaney's acceptance speech for the Nobel Prize in Lit in '95. You can read or hear it. Since he was a lecturer, also, it gives us a taste of his prose.

http://nobelprize.org/literature/laureates/1995/heaney-lecture.html

Alliemae
March 1, 2006 - 08:29 am
Marj, I agree...I still have the chills!

I've just subscribed to be a part of the group.

It's such a good feeling to be introduced to poets I'm not familiar with. I've stuck with my favored few all my life and it's a real joy to be garnering other 'favorite poets and poems'...

Alliemae

Hats
March 1, 2006 - 08:40 am
Hi Alliemae!

MarjV
March 1, 2006 - 09:55 am
Welcome to our conversation, Alliemae.

I wasn't familiar with Heaney either.

annafair
March 1, 2006 - 10:51 am
You will find yourself among some of the best Seniornet offers.. Marj thanks for the link when I was deciding how much to add to the introduction I really didnt feel like doing too much.. my eyes hurt from the sinus pain so I chose the bio I asked Pat to include. I have just finished reading the Nobel speech and find myself speechless to say how I felt reading it, I have immersed myself into Irish History and lore because my grandparents came from there .All I have read has torn me and made me proud as well, Heaney's speech did both ..The medicine has tired me and I find myself needing to rest and have taken the three books with me and before my eyes close in a needed nap I immerse myself in his words, I am going to ask Pat if she would include the link you posted. It is long but worth the time to read ..I am going to try and see if I can hear it as well .. My hearing leaves a lot to be desired and soemtimes I am so frustrated by not understanding I have a tendency to avoid sound BUT I Want hear this poets voice.

When I was reading Hats comments about how wonderful it must be to live in the country I am remembering my husbands first assignment to a base in Texas. Being a city girl , even one who as a child was able to visit family who lived in the country the Texas sky was a huge and wonderful surprise. We rented half of a duplex if you can call a bedroom/living room , kitchen and bath that large, It was located in a very small village of perhaps 200 people and there were no lights except the stars to disturb the night. The first night I stood outside it was like I was at the bottom of this HUGE bowl and above me the Milky Way was a wide highway across the heavens and the planets and stars shed a brilliant light, I have never felt so small or so close to God than I did there. So yes it is special to leave the streetlights, the neon signs behind and marvel at what is real

Your comments have encouraged me to look forward to this month of learning and sharing the words of a poet of our time. It is a peculiar kind of joy ...real but difficult to put into words. I will return later to post one of the poems I have been reading. They are like a banquet for the soul ...anna

Scrawler
March 1, 2006 - 12:08 pm
I:
White bone found
on the grazing:
the rough, porous
language of touch

and yellowing, ribbed
impression in the grass-
a small ship-burial.
As dead as stone,


flint-find, nugget
of chalk,
I touch it again,
I wind it in

the sling of mind
to pitch it at England
and follow its drop
to strange fields.

II:
Bone-house:
a skeleton
in the tongue's
old dungeons.

I push back
through dictions,
Elizabethan canopies,
Norman devices,
the erotic mayflowers
of Provence
and the ivied Latins
of churchmen

to the scop's
twang, the iron
flash of consonants
cleaving the line.

III:
In the coffered
riches of grammar
and declensions
I found ban-hus,


its fire, benches,
wattle and rafters,
where the soul
fluttered a while

in the roofspace.
There was a small crock
for the brain,
and a cauldron

of generation
swung at the centre:
love-den, blood holt,
dream-bower.

IV:
Come back past
philology and kennings,
re-enter memory
where the bone's lair


is a love-nest
in the grass.
I hold my lady's head
like a crystal

and ossify myself
by gazing: I am screes
on her escarpments,
a chalk giant

carved upon her downs,
Soon my hands, on the sunken
fosse of her spine,
move towards the passes.

V:
And we end up
cradling each other
between the lips
of an earthwork.

as I estimate
for pleasure
for knuckles' paving
the turning stiles

of the elbows
the vallum of her brow
and the long wicket
of collar-bone,


I have begun to pace
the Hadrian's Wall
of her shoulder, dreaming
of Maiden Castle.

VI:
One morning in Devon
I found a dead mole
with the dew still beading it
I had thought the mole

a big-boned coulter
but there it was,
small and cold
as the thick of a chisel.

I was told, 'Blow,
blow back the fur on his head.
Those little points
were the eyes.

And feel the shoulders.'
I touched small distant Pennines,
a pelt of grass and grain
running south.

~Seamus Heaney from North (1975)

I picked this poem because of the "Deferred Poems" of the previous poet, but as all can see - Seamus Heaney is a very different poet and yet there seems a similar sense to both poets. Both their poems have that musical quality to them, but unlike Langston Hughes, I think Seamus Heaney's poems are more difficult to understand. Perhaps before the month is out you all can help me out - to understand what the poet is all about.

MarjV
March 1, 2006 - 12:39 pm
I would guess Scrawler's posted poem relates to Heaneys interest in the discovery of the Bog people as told in his bio.

That is a poem I'll need to print out or look at in a book so I can see it as a whole.

I do like the 6th section poeticizing the mole body.

Hats
March 1, 2006 - 02:42 pm
Scrawler,

I think his poetry is musical too. In the one you posted these lines sang to me.

I hold my lady's head
like a crystal


and ossify myself
by gazing: I am screes
on her escarpments,
a chalk giant


Carved upon her downs


It is a song of sadness, I feel. This is a woman he has loved so much. He would not mind lying beside her remains until death came to his own body. Even in death he holds her ever so gently like a piece of crystal that might easily break. Is he singing about a woman or is he singing about his lady, Ireland?

MarjV
March 1, 2006 - 05:05 pm
Good point there, Hats! Quote from Hats: "Is he singing about a woman or is he singing about his lady, Ireland?"

We know he loved & wrote about his beloved land.

annafair
March 1, 2006 - 07:37 pm
I am almost , almost sorry I bought three books ...I have read them all and cant decide which ones to share. I think all poems have to speak to us . We get to decide what it means to us, How it touches us .. sometimes it is what the poet meant to him and we understand that too but sometimes it means something else to the reader. The poet is writing of his experiences but they are not ours so we view it from our own expierences. that was so true with Langston Hughes poems ..You didnt need to be black or poor to have his poetry speak to you You just needed to be human and understand what meaning human means,

I have a poem here by Heaney and it means a lot to me .I love the line "it is useless to think you'll park and capture it more thoroughly, YOU are neigther here nor there"

Wow I can think of all the places I have stopped to drink in the view ..and while I remember it I didnt capture it ..because I was neither here nor there ..it is a memory but elusive and I cant hold it in my hand ..it is like water that flows through my mind but it not touchable ..I hope I make sense but here is the poems ..anna

Postscript
  

And some time make the time to drive out west Into County Clare, along the Flaggy Shore , In September or October, when the wind And the light are working off each other So that the ocean on one side is wild With foam and glitter, and inland among the stones The surface of a slate-grey lake is lit By the earthed lightining of a flock of swans. There feathers roughed and ruffling, white on white, Their fully grown headstrong-looking heads Tucked or cresting or busy underwater. Useless to think you’ll park and capture it More thoroughly. You are neither here nor there, A hurry through which known and strange things pass As big soft buffetings come at the car sideways And catch the heart off guard and blow it open.
  

Seamus Heaney

Jim in Jeff
March 1, 2006 - 07:53 pm
Confessing I also don't know him...yet. A 1995 Nobel winner? Where've I been? Oh, yeah; busy elsewhere...as were many of us then.

So far, I've read Heaney's bio...and then also enjoyed his ENTIRE 51-minute "Nobel Lecture" (click-on links in this forum's headers).

Caution, forum friends: His 51-min lecture is maybe more erudite and political than we poetry fans expect. But...a well-spent hour for me (for non-poetry reasons). In ending paragraph, he does somewhat tie poetry into his "Life, the Universe, & Everything" lecture points (I think).

So far (just a beginning for me), I'm impressed with the BREADTH of Heaney's many poems...already being cited by forum friends here.

I agree with someone (MarjV, I think) that pieces of many poems can often be of larger impact than the rest of a poem. I've ALWAYS secretly thought that about Shakespeare sonnets. Often, it's just the first couplet that resonates in my memory.

Looking forward to learning more about Heaney's thoughts (as expressed in his poems) here this month.

Jim in Jeff
March 1, 2006 - 08:36 pm
Annafair, that's a wonderful image from Heaney: thanks!

"You are neither here nor there" reminds me of Robert Frost's beloved classic poem: "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" (I've miles to go, before I sleep.) Two poetic word-pictures of quality, in my humble opinion.

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 1, 2006 - 11:34 pm
I am jelly tonight - I read and then listened to the Noble Speech. Listening put spotlights on the parts of the speech that were uncomfortable for me. I have a long history of glossing over the reminders of those areas of my life that are uncomfortable --

Listening was difficult for me. I identified with so much he said in his speech - some of what he shared I am now questioning if my choices helped at my expense or, if that was the role of the only love I had to offer. Hearing the speech I identified the loneliness of my life that I keep buried in order to be accepted or maybe like the Catholic - at least pulled aside and accepted. However, the Catholic at least stepped out during a moment of personal danger and declared himself.

As Seamus was affected and shaken by events to his friends and neighbors as well as, acknowledging the injustice in addition, the overlapping history that left only contradiction and confusion, he still loved Ireland and never left Ireland as it was sinking in its own chaos.

That is the dichotomy that most who do not have a first hand life experience with violence, chaos before those words are understood, as a way to express what is happening; when, as an adult you look at the experiences of your life and can be horrified for the first time because you have words that describe and you finally have an understanding that the fear you felt as a child was justified; however, even as an adult you have an attachment that is strong and beyond a simplistic word like love so that you are torn - not being able to condemn and that the social fabric that protected my father from jail is for what I am still thankful.

Society would prefer I condemn and would have wanted for me as a child to be removed from my family as so many children are today. Society would prefer I be thankful I had been removed where as I weep for those children who are removed from their family and understand their pain. No matter what your parents do, you want your parents - there is some primeval need.

What makes it even more confusing is this man who caused so much havoc, fear and pain was also the man who gave me a belief in myself and acceptance in my future ability that no one else gave to me. I am thinking for Seamus this Ireland and his thatched roof cottage on the family croft is what gives him his identity although he lived the picture book image of all that was considered barbaric by the Brits.

His den-like living is the perfect explanation given of how the Irish have always lived in the countryside - sometimes 11 or 12 to a room. Yep, I have a bit of Irish and that is another sad family story - when my grandfather was a boy if a family without food needed help and asked for it the children were immediately removed - he and his brother were taken when his mother finally asked for help and they never saw their parents again - when he was 16 and his brother 17, they hopped the high stone fence of the protectorate and in time he met my grandmother's brother who brought him home - my grandfather's brother hopped the rails and they never saw each other again.

I will be reading Seamus Heaney as if my rib cage was torn open exposing my heart to what I prefer to hide. I have his book on writing poetry that I have not up till now had the time to devour. Back a few years ago, here on Books and Lit, we read Beowulf translated by Seamus Heaney - although not his poetry, I did become familiar with his name and work.

Well with a deep breath and the reminder to myself to breath. No, I will not bore you with tirades of stories expressing personal pain - I think we will have an interesting month with Seamus Heaney.

anneofavonlea
March 2, 2006 - 03:59 am
In the last minutes he said more to her
Almost than in their whole life together.
'You'll be in New Row on Monday night
And I'll come up for you and you'll be glad
When I walk in the door . . . Isn't that right?'
His head was bent down to her propped-up head.
She could not hear but we were overjoyed.
He called her good and girl. Then she was dead,
The searching for a pulsebeat was abandoned
And we all knew one thing by being there.
The space we stood around had been emptied
Into us to keep, it penetrated
Clearances that suddenly stood open.
High cries were felled and a pure change happened.

Hats
March 2, 2006 - 04:56 am
Anneo, that one really hits the heart. Thank you for picking that one.

annafair
March 2, 2006 - 05:39 am
Anneo like Hats that poem hit the heart . Still as I read the poems I wonder can we pick a bad one. The one I chose for today is with me in a hundred ways. I am not sure I can even explain why. But this poet speaks to me about things I have known, My mother sang all the time and I wonder did she do the same when she was young, living in a remote rural area, her father dead when she was 3 and her mother married a neighbor so she would have a place for her children I wonder now how she must have felt to marry and move to the city,where cars ( not many even when I was young) and buses ran by the house where I born,

And I have known the blind, and how they "saw" and how the water ran from the bucket hoisted from a well and like the poet says "ravelling' Like a braid that has come loose and unravels in the air, And how did this blind from birth know the sky was reflected in th bottom of the well? I draw back now as I did then because I felt I would fall into that sky and drown.

So here is my choice for today...anna

At The Wellhead
 

Your songs, when you sing them with your two eyes closed As you always do, are like a local road We’ve known every turn of in the past- That midge-veiled, high-hedged side road where you stood Looking and listening until a car Would come and go and leave you lonelier Than you had been to begin with. So, sing on, Dear shut-eyed one, dear far-voiced veteran.
 

Sing yourself to where the singing comes from, Ardent and cut off like our blind neighbor Who played the piano all day in her bedroom. Her notes came out to us like hoisted water Ravelling off a bucket at the wellhead Where next thing we’d be listening , hushed and awkward.
 

That blind-from-birth, sweet-voiced, withdrawn musician Was like a silver vein in heavy clay. Night water glistening in the light of day. But also just our neighbor, Rosie Keenan. She touched our cheeks. She let us touch her braille In books like books wallpaper patterns came in . Her hands were active and her eyes were full Of open darkness and watery shine.
 

She knew us by our voices. She’d say she “saw” Wherever or what ever. Being with her Was intimate and helpful, like a cure You didn’t notice happening. When I read A poem with Keenan’s well in it , she said, “I can see the sky at the bottom of it now.”
 

Seamus Heaney

MarjV
March 2, 2006 - 06:49 am
From Anna's posted poem:

"Being with her Was intimate and helpful, like a cure You didn’t notice happening "

Isn't that a fantastic way of describing someone who is a natural healer. That whole poem is so descriptive I feel right there.

And same with the one AnneO posted - this line is startling and so true: "And we all knew one thing by being there. The space we stood around had been emptied Into us to keep". Memories being given as a gift of having lived and known someone.

What a treat to learn about a poet who is new to me! And aren't we so fortunate to be able to hear his voice in our computer age!!!!

Hats
March 2, 2006 - 07:51 am
Changes


As you came with me in silence
to the pump in the long grass


I heard much that you could not hear: the bite of the spade that sank it,

the slithering and grumble as the mason mixed his mortar,

and women coming with white buckets
like flashes on their ruffled wings.


The cast-iron rims of the lid
clinked as I uncovered it,


something stirred in its mouth.
I had a bird's eyes view of a bird,


finch-green, speckly white,
nesting on dry leaves, flattened, still,


suffering the light.
So I roofed the citadel


as gently as I could, and told you
and you gently unroofed it


but where was the bird now?
There was a single egg, pebbly white,


and in the rusted bend of the spout
tail feathers splayed and sat tight.


So tender, I said, 'Remember this.
It will be good for you to retrace this path


when you have grown away and stand at last
at the very centre of the empty city.'

Seamus Heaney

I love this one. It reminds me of a memory from long ago. In our church parking lot, a bird decided to hatch her babies. I can't remember how long it took before the bird gave birth. I do remember everybody gathering around and watching this magical sight. Noone would park their car near the bird's adopted home. The children had such fun going over and watching. That bird brought so much excitement to our church.

It's one of those moments when something in your head says "Remember this." This is special. Seamus Heaney is bringing a lot of those types of moments back to my memory.

MarjV
March 2, 2006 - 09:28 am
Love the birdie poem. YOu can see a person standing there and addressing the bird. The last few lines are impressive. Like a gentle admonition to remember your roots.

  So tender, I said, 'Remember this. 
It will be good for you to retrace this path
 

when you have grown away and stand at last 
at the very centre of the empty city.'

MarjV
March 2, 2006 - 09:36 am
This "Digging" poem is the beginning poem in the book of Sollected Poems 1966-1987.

So we dig away!!!! How he likens his writing to the fantastic description of his father digging in soil is remarkable. Quite quite affected my emotions. I read it last night and was still thinking about it this morning. And Heaney gives us his sense of history by also bringing grandad into the thoughts.

"Digging"

 Between my finger and my thumb 
The squat pen rests; as snug as a gun.
 

Under my window a clean rasping sound 
When the spade sinks into gravelly ground: 
My father, digging. I look down
 

Till his straining rump among the flowerbeds 
Bends low, comes up twenty years away 
Stooping in rhythm through potato drills 
Where he was digging.
 

The coarse boot nestled on the lug, the shaft 
Against the inside knee was levered firmly. 
He rooted out tall tops, buried the bright edge deep 
To scatter new potatoes that we picked 
Loving their cool hardness in our hands.
 

By God, the old man could handle a spade, 
Just like his old man.
 

My grandfather could cut more turf in a day 
Than any other man on Toner's bog. 
Once I carried him milk in a bottle 
Corked sloppily with paper. He straightened up 
To drink it, then fell to right away 
Nicking and slicing neatly, heaving sods 
Over his shoulder, digging down and down 
For the good turf. Digging.
 

The cold smell of potato mold, the squelch and slap 
Of soggy peat, the curt cuts of an edge 
Through living roots awaken in my head. 
But I've no spade to follow men like them.
 

<pre?Between my finger and my thumb The squat pen rests. I'll dig with it.
 

Seamus Heaney 
 

  "the squelch and slap of soggy peat".  Can't 
you just hear that!   

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 2, 2006 - 10:56 am
I thought these comparisons were interesting - the first we read while studying Langston Hughes - written by a school teacher in the Bronx New York and popularized by songstress Billy Holiday -- and the second is Strange Fruit by Seamus Heaney.
STRANGE FRUIT by DAVID MARGOLICK

Southern trees bear a strange fruit,
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,
Black body swinging in the Southern breeze,
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

Pastoral scene of the gallant South,
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,
Scent of magnolia sweet and fresh,
And the sudden smell of burning flesh!

Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck,
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,
For the sun to rot, for a tree to drop,
Here is a strange and bitter crop.
STRANGE FRUIT by SEAMUS HEANEY

Here is the girl's head like an exhumed gourd.
Oval-faced, prune-skinned, prune-stones for teeth.

They unswaddled the wet fern of her hair
And made an exhibition of its coil,
Let the air at her leathery beauty.
Pash of tallow, perishable treasure:
Her broken nose is dark as a turf clod,
Her eyeholes blank as pools in the old workings.
Diodorus Siculus confessed
His gradual ease with the likes of this:
Murdered, forgotten, nameless, terrible
Beheaded girl, outstaring axe
And beatification, outstaring
What had begun to feel like reverence.

What strikes me is the last word of each line in each poem - almost tells us the whole poem as if the last words were a Haiku.

In the first poem the endings rhyme where as Seamus Heaney's poem the line ending words tells a story without rhyme. I also get the impression from the Seamus poem he has to convince us of the horror - where as Margolick's poem is so filled with irony and the horror dawns as we read it.

fruit - root - breeze - trees.
South - mouth - fresh - flesh!
pluck - suck - drop - crop.

gourd - teeth.
hair - coil - beauty.
treasure: - clod - workings.
confessed - this - terrible - axe - outstaring - reverence.

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 2, 2006 - 12:55 pm
Wow am I glad I started to be curious - Looking up the word reverence and following its association gave me the inkling this poem is not what it appears to be on the surface.

Reverence – a profound emotion inspired be deity – a complex mental state involving beliefs and feelings and values and dispositions to act in a certain way.

And then we have the enlightenment of the crux of this poem - I think the head is severed from the rest of Ireland - the women representing Ireland - look at what continues as you trace the word reverence -– Then I looked up some of the other words - especially the ending words - amazing.

Scrawler
March 2, 2006 - 01:10 pm
Once we presumed to found ourselves for good
Between its blue hills and those sandless shores
Where we spent our desperate night in prayer and vigil,

Once we had gathered driftwood, made a hearth
And hung our cauldron in its firmament,
The island broke beneath as like a wave.

The land sustaining us seemed to hold firm
Only when we embraced it "in extremis".
All I believe that happened there was vision.

Wow! You guys are great! I don't know that I can keep up with all your posts. "The Disappearing Island" reminds me of an acutal island as it disappears below the surface of the ocean and also the people that leave the island. I am assuming that Seamus Heaney is referring to Ireland in this poem, but than that last stanza seems not to refer to the island, but rather to two people that were in love. In the end perhaps it was only a vision that their embraces made seem real.

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 2, 2006 - 01:19 pm
I think with this poet we are going to be looking up a lot of words to get the shade of meaning - Scrawler I became curious about the short latin phrase in the poem and this is what I found - which sure supports your idea that the island is Ireland -

Dictionary
in ex·tre·mis (ĭn ĕk-strē'mĭs) -- adv.
At the point of death.
In grave or extreme circumstances.
[Latin in extrēmīs : in, in + extrēmīs, ablative pl. of extrēmus, extreme

Hats
March 2, 2006 - 01:21 pm
Barbara,

Thank you for researching the definitions of so many words. I have a few terms which have boggled my mind. If you don't mind, I would like o list these words. Some you have already listed on your above list.

After reading "Strange Fruit" by Langston Hughes, It surprised me to see one of the same title by Seamus Heaney. Each poem is hauntingly memorable.

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 2, 2006 - 01:32 pm
Hats I re-read Changes I am beginning to think the work of Seamus Heaney is very deceptive - after looking up reverence and having a club hit my brain that the poem was saying something totally different than explaining some atrocity to one women I am seeing connections now that makes me think Changes is really about the flood of Irish born babies that end up when they are a bit grown leaving Ireland for either the Americas or for England - most of the writers and actors went to London - however like fledgling birds they were sheltered and after the roof is lifted they leave behind an egg - the color of eggs being green speckled with white -

White, the color of sacredness, holiness, purity, the color of saints who have not been martyred.

And with that thought in mind while reading the poem the words -
'Remember this.
It will be good for you to retrace this path
when you have grown away and stand at last
at the very centre of the empty city


Say to me it is a request not to forget from where you came while in this empty city since the city would be empty of all the values of Ireland although a place where an Irishmen can take care of himself and his family - now remember to retrace your soul and send back to Ireland the money needed to recapture its soul through independence from England - which is what many an Irish family living in the states did.

Hats
March 2, 2006 - 01:38 pm
Barbara,

Wow!! Then we have only hit the surface of what this poet is trying to say. Now, how do we handle this? I have no way of knowing what is in the heart of this intelligent man. I don't know what to do. However, how do we know what is in the heart of any poet, that is unless we read criticisms. Don't we take poetry and make it our own?

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 2, 2006 - 01:41 pm
Hats follow the words - admire as you are I think is the ticket and then somehow we will together dope him out - look at all we will be learning about imagery and metaphor this month - wow - and we will really have to work together here as a group...

Hats
March 2, 2006 - 01:41 pm
Babara,

I think it is going to be very exciting.

MarjV
March 2, 2006 - 01:45 pm
re Post 30----Perhaps the reference to "prune-skinned, prune stones for teeth" refers to the browniish wrinkled look of a dug up body ; same with the teeth having turned brown as prunes are.

Hats, I need to agree with you. We do make it our own.

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 2, 2006 - 01:51 pm
I think you are right Marj - but I am picking up that he uses words to mean several things - there is prune the noun and prune the adjective and prune the verb - I am reading him as using a word to be a metaphor for another thought and so all the uses of the word prune would work - each bringing up a different image.

Thinking on it this brown colored oval gourd faced head is certainly dead and cut off from its body. And brown in the Christian tradition means spiritual death - so the choice of prune seems to say it in many ways doesn't it...

annafair
March 2, 2006 - 03:41 pm
Thanks for all the researching and the explanations He was Irish through and through and if you have ever read any books about the "TROUBLES" in Ireland you would weep as I did .. The Great Hunger was where I started since that was what made my great grandparents leave and was the BIG exodus and the big famine ....he had to be affected not only by what he saw but what he knew...his poetry is double edged and when we see this month pass we will be more knowledgeble and more understanding and more affected by what we uncover. I just find it hard to read his poetry without an ache ..anna

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 2, 2006 - 07:39 pm
Listen to Seamus Heaney read Personal Helicon

Personal Helicon

for Michael Longley
As a child, they could not keep me from wells
And old pumps with buckets and windlasses.
I loved the dark drop, the trapped sky, the smells
Of waterweed, fungus and dank moss.

One, in a brickyard, with a rotted board top.
I savoured the rich crash when a bucket
Plummeted down at the end of a rope.
So deep you saw no reflection in it.

A shallow one under a dry stone ditch
Fructified like any aquarium.
When you dragged out long roots from the soft mulch
A white face hovered over the bottom.

Others had echoes, gave back your own call
With a clean new music in it. And one
Was scaresome, for there, out of ferns and tall
Foxgloves, a rat slapped across my reflection.

Now, to pry into roots, to finger slime,
To stare, big-eyed Narcissus, into some spring
Is beneath all adult dignity. I rhyme
To see myself, to set the darkness echoing.


This poem seems to use conversational language without a search for imgages and symbols to express his deeper concern with Ireland torn by violence after 1969.

I take this as someone putting childhood things away - saying our search for ourselves like Narcissus is beneath us as adults and this wonderful sentence " I rhyme To see myself..." and then his work - "to set the darkness echoing."

Barbara St. Aubrey
March 2, 2006 - 07:40 pm
This is an interesting explanation of the poetry of Seamus Heaney from the English Department of the US Navy - in the article it says --

"Though pastoral literature is often used to describe the idyllic rural home life, using smooth and picturesque vocabulary, pastorals often utilize ruder language to imply at greater matters (Burris 4).

Heaney makes use of both poetic phrases and conversational language simultaneously, as well as devices such as onomatopoeia and different styles of rhythm, to clarify and focus on his peculiar subjects.

Some of his early works have an air of wandering and less focus than that of his later works. He received direction, however, with the beginning of the violence in Northern Ireland in 1969 between Catholics and Protestants.

"[T]he problems of poetry moved from being simply a matter of achieving the satisfactory verbal icon to being a search for images and symbols adequate to [Heaney's] predicament" (Malloy 92).

Three poems particularly illustrate his search for poetic direction and characteristic perspectives. "Digging," written in 1966, "The Tollund Man," written in 1972, and "Funeral Rites," written in 1975, are each in some way similar in their style and impact, illustrating Heaney's familiar poetic images and common literary themes."

anneofavonlea
March 2, 2006 - 11:30 pm
To have simply liked the works of a poet, and then to begin to look closely with others.

I have an Irish friend, and she is from the north, they think differently these Irish. Nancy once went shopping with me, and on seeing some lovely oranges at the greengrocers said
"What lovely oranges..... wouldn't you get a lot of those for a dozen."
Seems to me that is why its so hard to define what Seamus is saying sometimes, and yet this dicussion may well get us a little closer.

Barbara thanks for your input, you always astound me.[in the nicest way possible,lol]

Anneo

Scrawler
March 3, 2006 - 11:52 am
"...Instead of the neat villages and comfortable cottages he had expected in the countryside, Seward [William H. Seward, Secretary of State under Abraham Lincoln] found "poverty and wretchedness." Suddenly aware of his own Irish roots, Seward became convinced that the basis of Ireland's problems was absentee landlordism and that the solution lay in emigration. Throughout his political career Seward would prove a staunch friend to the Irish, and although his rhetoric at times would take on political overtones, his basic sympathy was apparent early in his career." ~ "William Henry Seward: Lincoln's Right Hand" by John M. Taylor - On Seward's trip to Europe in 1832.

Perhaps you are all wondering about this passage. But I thought since we are discussing Ireland indirectly through Seamus Heaney it wouldn't hurt to see a description and a possible reason for the emigration of the Irish not only to America, but also to Australia and other parts of the British empire. My great-grandmother came from Ireland in the 1860s and lived first in Boston and than in San Francisco where she met and married a "dashing, young French man from Louisiana" who was my grandfather.

The Stations of the West:

On my first night in the Gaeltacht the old woman spoke to me in English: "You will be all right." I sat on a twilit bedside listening through the wall to fluent Irish, homesick for a speech I was to extirpate.

I had come west to inhale the absolute weather. The visionaries breathed on my face a smell of soup-kitchens, they mixed the dust of croppies' graves with the fasting spittle of our creed and anointed my lips. Ephete, they urged. I blushed but only managed a few words.

Neither did any gift of tongues descend in my days in that upper room when all around me seemed to prophesy. But still I would recall the stations of the west, white sand, hard rock, light ascending like its definition over Rannafast and Errigal, Annaghry and Kincasslagh: names portable as altar stones, unleavened elements.

~ Seamus Heaney ( from Stations - 1975)

The one thing I remember most of all about my Irish grandmother was her Irish brogue when she told me stories and the way she smelled of soap. She used to make her own soap even at the age of 96. But alas, I can't remember the stories she told, although she was one the persons in my life that influence my love of storytelling.

Hats
March 4, 2006 - 03:16 am
In Memoriam M.K.H., 1911-1984


When all the others were away at Mass
I was all hers as we peeled potatoes.
They broke the silence, let fall one by one
Like solder weeping off the soldering iron:
Cold comforts set between us, things to share
Gleaming in a bucket of clean water.
And again let fall. Little pleasant splashes
From each other's work would bring us to our senses.
So while the parish priest at her bedside
Went hammer and tongs at the prayers for the dying
And some were responding and some crying
I remembered her head bent towards my head,
Her breath in mine, our fluent dipping knives--
Never closer the whole rest of our lives.


Seamus Heaney

I realize many will remember stories told about the potato famine in Ireland. This poem will bring special memories to you. There are different memories for me. I suppose this is why Seamus Heaney won the Nobel Prize. He is gifted with a voice which can reach the hearts of people around the world. Seamus Heaney's voice connects us.

This poem also makes me recall special moments with my mother. She loved to cook. Her apple pie and chicken and dumplings would make a person never want to leave her kitchen.

I remember what she cooked. I also remember how she moved around in the kitchen. The way she picked up a knife to peel a potato or apple. The way she scaled a fish. Most of all I remember her voice. A voice that was soft and distinct. Back then, people often said she could have been a telephone operator.

Seamus Heaney remembers a priest saying the last words over his mother. I remember my mother so sick and a preacher coming to pray for her. He held her hand like an old friend. My mom did not die until years later.

Like Seamus Heaney I do not carry her last days with me. I carry the sweet moments we shared while shopping, looking at sewing patterns, or just sharing a story. She loved to hear me read to her. Her favorite stories always included dogs or cats.

These memories are precious. This poem is precious because it allowed me to recall that wonderful past.

annafair
March 4, 2006 - 08:05 am
Thanks so much for sharing ..my Little Grandma who was IRISh and had this wonderful brogue lived with us for about 5 years so I was exposed to her stories and loved to listen to her speech She was the only grandparent I knew the others had passed away before I was born ..My older brothers knew my mothers mother who was called BIG GRANDMA ..one story I recall was her telling about her marriage to my grandfather Dennis Hannigan who she called Dinny ...They had 13 children and apparantly had a tiff of some sort and my grandfather said perhaps he should get a deevorce ( the way she pronounced it) I can see her now sitting upright still bristling all these years later that he would even suggest such a thing ..with a fire in her eyes she repeated what her answer to his suggestion was "WEEEEL If there be anyone in this family to get a deevorce IT BE ME and I leeave the waaay I KAME without children!" apparantly that ended the discussion!The spelling is my attempt to show her brogue.

HAts you are so right Heaney's poems , at least many of them are about the things we remember too from our childhood, Our mothers and the family events , the births, the deaths , the every day things that tug at our memories and heart strings...Scrawler in the book THE GREAT HUNGER it speaks of the absent landlords ( ENGLISH for the most) who really never understood the potato famine and what it was doing to the people and the country Some of the people sent to help were told by English politicians not to do too much for the Irish since then they would have to TAKE CARE OF THEM... THEY needed to do as much as possible for themselves. Those are not the exact words but that was the thinking ..and they had no idea of the terrible plight the Irish were in ..and I guess really didnt care. anna

annafair
March 4, 2006 - 08:08 am
The Tollund Man lived during the 4th century BC, during the time period characterised in Scandinavia as the Pre-Roman Iron Age. He was buried in a peat bog on the Jutland Peninsula in Denmark. Such a find is known as a bog body. Tollund Man is remarkable for the fact that his body was so well preserved that he seemed to have died only recently.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollund_Man

Tollund
 

That Sunday morning we had traveled far. We stood a long time out in Tollund Moss : The low ground, the swart water, the thick grass Hallucinatory and familiar.
 

A path through the Jutland fields. Light traffic sound. Willow bushes: rushes; bog -fir grags In a swept and gated farmyard; dormant quags. And silage under wraps in its silent mound.
  

It could have been a still out of the bright “Townland of Peace”. that poem of dream farms Outside all contention, The scarecrow’s arms Stood open opposite the satellite
  

Dish in the paddock, where a standing stone Has been resituated and landscaped, With tourist signs in futhark runic script In Danish and in English. Things had moved on.
 

It could have been in Mulhollandstown or Scribe. The byroads has their names on them in black And white it was user-friendly outback, Where we stood footloose, at home beyond the tribe,
  

More scouts than strangers, ghosts who’d walked abroad Unfazed by light , to make a new beginning And make a go of it , alive and sinning , Ouselves again, free-willed again, not bad.
  

September 1994

Seamus Heaney

MarjV
March 4, 2006 - 09:18 am
The Bog people are fascinating to me. SH sure does set the scene with the above poem.

And isn't this quote amazing from the poem; past and present brought together vividly by the narrator standing a bit afar.

" The scarecrow’s arms Stood open opposite the satellite Dish in the paddock, where a standing stone Has been resituated and landscaped, With tourist signs in futhark runic script In Danish and in English. Things had moved on."

MarjV
March 4, 2006 - 09:29 am


I sat all morning in the college sick bay 
Counting bells knelling classes to a close, 
At two o'clock our neighbors drove me home.
 

In the porch I met my father crying-- 
He had always taken funerals in his stride-- 
And Big Jim Evans saying it was a hard blow.
 

The baby cooed and laughed and rocked the pram 
When I came in, and I was embarrassed 
By old men standing up to shake my hand
 

And tell me they were "sorry for my trouble," 
Whispers informed strangers I was the eldest, 
Away at school, as my mother held my hand
 

In hers and coughed out angry tearless sighs. 
At ten o'clock the ambulance arrived 
With the corpse, stanched and bandaged by the nurses.
 

Next morning I went up into the room. Snowdrops 
And candles soothed the bedside; I saw him 
For the first time in six weeks. Paler now,
 

Wearing a poppy bruise on the left temple, 
He lay in the four foot box as in a cot. 
No gaudy scars, the bumper knocked him clear.
 

A four foot box, a foot for every year.
  

 - - - - - - -- - -  - 
 

On first reading I wasn't quite sure what this poem was  
doing.And when I came to the last line I thought - oh my, 
 it is the death of someone young.    
4year old-4foot box.
 

As I reread it I could see the trail of grief unfolding.   
 From the narrator's wait for a ride until he is able 
 to go to the roomand see this scene.
 

What imagery.
 

This was in SH's first collection of poetry.   
There fore written about '66 or earlier.
    

From an online website:   
"The poem is about the death of Heaney's infant brother 
 (Christopher) and how people (including himself) 
 reacted to this. The poem's title suggests a holiday but  
this “break” does not happen for pleasant reasons.  
For most of the poem Heaney writes of people's  
unnatural reactions; at  
the end he is able to grieve honestly. "
 

Great poem! Can bear much rereading.

annafair
March 4, 2006 - 09:59 am
I am glad you posted that poem I have read it at least 6 times or more since I brought my books home..I really had a hard time even reading it without feeling such overwhelming grief for everyone and So I am thankful you posted it I debated this morning about posting it myself but decided to on TOLLUND because as you say the contrast between what was and what is . among other things ..Things had moved on....anna

MarjV
March 4, 2006 - 12:15 pm
on #45 - you can hear the lament of the exile, especially the loss of the mother tongue, in the poem Scrawler posted. I just finished a novel with the topic of immigrants from Bangladash. Such an adjustment, challenge, with bright and dark days.

on #46 - Memories- that undoubtedly was written in honor of Heaney's mother who died in '84. I see while browing on the internet there is another title for that poem , "Clearances - 3". I think someone already posted the website where you can hear it read. However, begging their pardon, here it is again. . http://www.ibiblio.org/ipa/heaney/clearances3.html

As I listened to it several times I hear SH saying - there, all of us have simple memories that can connect us to ones we loved who are gone.

JoanK
March 4, 2006 - 10:22 pm
I have just been going through the old site to read the poems from the month while I was away. What a month it was -- amazing. I'm so sorry I wasn't able to share it with you. I'm going to get a book of Langston Hughes' poems as soon as I can. What a wonderful poet.

I would also try to get the tape of the Masterpiece Theater production of his story. Regina Taylor is such a wonderful actress, I would watch anything she is in!

"Mid-term Break" was hard for me. It was so exactly my recent experience. I like Seamus Heaney a lot, although I don't always understand him.

I didn't read all your comments from last month -- there were too many. But I noticed that HATS said she had never heard Paul Robeson's voice. You may have seen the old movie version of "Showboat" where he sings "Old Man River".

annafair
March 5, 2006 - 01:28 am
I am glad you mentioned Showboat because I was trying to remember the name of the movie where he sang Old Man River but I couldnt and was too sick to really take the time to look it up..

Heaney is difficult since he writes about things that for the most part we dont know about and have to research and even then sometimes it isnt easy ...I cant speak for others but when a poem seems to be nagging me I HAVE to write sometimes it is so personal no one but myself would understand ..I hope we will see you here though helping us to see his poetry through many eyes ..I am sorry Mid Term Break was too meaningful to you ..it really hit me and I wondered why , finally my mind recalled this young boy from our church , in another town and more than 40 years ago ,.he was about 5 or 6 a late in life baby with a grown brother and sister .the brother was in college and had to come home for his little brother's funeral He lived in very quiet neighborhood and an elderly neighbor was driving down the street and he was walking .>She slowed to 5 miles an hour and was carefully passing him when he suddenly darted in front of the car.. and hit him..and killed him instantly ..I had forgotten about that but I knew the poem really upset me ..and today that memory returned I read one of my Heaney books before I went to bed last night and will post the poem I chose later ...taking this medicine makes my sleep erratic ..anna

MarjV
March 5, 2006 - 06:04 am
Anna, I posted Robeson's voice reading "Freedom Train" back in Feb. but I know your hearing is a problem. You can find it by Search.

Yes, I agree, much of Heaney is difficult reading. Sometmes only a few lines make sense. Or I find a rhythm to the poem. And when I do I am awed and excited.

annafair
March 5, 2006 - 07:28 am
Last night when I was reading Heaney's poems this one I completely understood, I can remember my first airplane flight. I was being sent to Germany for a medical test the small hospital on base in France could not do.. This was a military cargo plane, small and not sleek and with only two engines ( I would have preferred four to make sure I would arrive at my destination) my husband came along to hold my hand and said the only dangerous time in flying was take off and landing. THAT DID NOT REASSURE ME. I flew again later on sleek commericial planes and didnt feel one bit safer or happier. Here is Heaney's Honeymoon Flight and it certainly describes my FIRST FLIGHT //anna

Honeymoon Flight
 

Below, the patchwork earth, dark hems of hedge, The long grey tapes of road that bind and loose Villages and fields in casual marriage ; We bank about the small lough and farmhouse
 

And the sure green world gone topsy-turvy As we climb out of our familiar landscape. The engine noises change, You look at me. The coastline slips away beneath the wing -tip.
 

And launched right off the earth by force of fire We hang, miraculous, above the water, Dependent on the invisible air To keep us airborne and it bring us further.
 

Ahead of us the sky’s a geyser now, A calm voice talks of cloud yet we feel lost. Air-pockets jolt our fears and down we go. Travellers, at this point, can only trust.
  

Seamus Heaney

Hats
March 5, 2006 - 12:08 pm
MarjV,

"Mid-term Break" is very moving. Reading about the size of the coffin really makes the poem that much sadder. I feel it is always sadder for a child to leave the world than the older ones. I am so glad you posted this one. It is one of the most moving to me so far.

I also feel whenever the circle of family is broken by death it's gutwrenching.

Hats
March 5, 2006 - 12:23 pm
AnnaFair,

I like "Honeymoon Flight." I like reading your memories too. This is one we can relate too.

I keep thinking about "Mid-term Break." As I continue to think, any death, no matter the age, is heartbreaking. Death just leaves us with that feeling of not wanting to move, think or any of it.

JoanK, you are still in my thoughts.

Hats
March 5, 2006 - 02:29 pm
Follower


I wanted to grow up and plough,
To close one eye, stiffen my arm.
All I ever did was follow
In his broad shadow round the farm.


I was a nuisance, tripping, falling,
Yapping always. But today
It is my father who keeps stumbling
Behind me, and will not go away.


Seamus Heaney

I remember a family photograph. I must have been four or five. My father and I are in the dining room. He has a pipe in his mouth. I have a pipe in my mouth. Only my pipe is not lit. Although a girl, I wanted to be just like my dad. Later, I would desire to be just like my mom. We want to be like our parents, at that age, because we love them so much.

Then, the roles change. Our parents become childlike and follow in our shadow. Both my parents have died, I do remember my mother becoming more childlike, trusting my choices more than I could trust hers.

This is not the whole poem.

Jim in Jeff
March 5, 2006 - 03:45 pm
I've not had time to develop decent thoughts on his poems worth posting just yet. But I'm here...once a week or more. I've two "rookie" thoughts so far:

1. His poems seem mostly "dark-sided." True, his poems describe Ireland's recent dark times. Reminiscent of some of ours, we've seen.

Today I did spin thru his 1998 "Open Ground" (his own selection of essential poems from his previous 12 vols of poetry). I was looking to spot a "happy poem" to share here. I'll keep looking.

2. I'm quite stuck with others' thoughts posted here so far. Some of them seem to me wonderful poetry too (tho not meant so, when posted).

As just ONE example, here's a wonderful thought posted earlier by Hats (temporary reformatting liberties below...by me):

Special Moments With My Mother
(by Hats)

She loved to cook.
Her apple pie and chicken and dumplings
Would make a person
Never want to leave her kitchen.

I remember what she cooked.
I also remember how
She moved around in the kitchen.
The way she picked up a knife
to peel a potato or apple.
The way she scaled a fish.

Most of all I remember her voice.
A voice that was soft and distinct.
Back then, people often said
She could have been a telephone operator.

I remember my mother so sick
And a preacher coming to pray for her.
He held her hand like an old friend.
My mom did not die until years later.

I do not carry her last days with me.
I carry the sweet moments we shared
While shopping,
Looking at sewing patterns,
Or just sharing a story.

She loved to hear me read to her.
Her favorite stories
Always included dogs or cats.

These memories are precious.
This (Seamus Heaney's "Memories") poem is precious
Because it allowed me
To recall that wonderful past.

Forum friends, THIS seems to me poetry at its best. As are others besides Hats' several lovely personal thoughts to us here.

(Hats...oh, please please forgive me for using your poignant earlier thoughts to us again here as my example.)

MarjV
March 5, 2006 - 05:51 pm
I love what you did, Jim, with Hats thoughts. She will be surprised and pleased I betcha!!!!!

---

That's a powerful section of the poem , Hats. SH captured it so well with those two verses. We are the child. And then we become the parent. An adjustment to be sure.

"And will not go away". We hold those images.

--- I really like SH's nature observations. Those I can grasp more othan his references , straight or oblique, to Irish history. At this point anyway.

As in Anna's post- where he describes the lay of the land from the plane.

Hats
March 6, 2006 - 01:33 am
Jim in Jeff,

How in the world did you do that???? I am soooo excited. I can't believe it. I love it!!! Jim in Jeff, that is just too much. Is this Mother's Day?

annafair
March 6, 2006 - 01:34 am
You are so right , even when I read HAts thoughts I could recognize a special quality and you have put them in order and used her thoughts to make a poem She will be pleased but we are pleased as well to have her thoughts here..

I understand what you are saying about Heaneys poems but one has to write about the things that affect you I know when I first started to write my husband had passed away and my grief was so the only way I could cope was to put all those feelings in my poems I knew I was healing when I could look around and see the world was still here and I could write about the things we had both loved. So Heaney writes a lot about the things that affected him . I can feel his need to put them in poetic form ..he is feeling so deeply what he has seen and knows about it is he only way to keep it from destoying him...As I told my children after thier father died and I moved on by taking classes and traveling alone that I had to make new memories or the old ones would destroy me.

I found one of Heaneys poems that isnt as dark and Honeymoon Flight was not dark to me. I had never seen the earth from a plane, and while I was afraid and never fly unless I absolutely have to I still can see how it was when I was there in the air, Returning from our assignment on Okinawa we left about 10 am and somewhere over the Pacific we saw the sunrise that we had seen earlier on Okinawa and we landed in California BEFORE we had left Okinawa I will never forget that and I thought the ancients dreamed of flying carpets We have them only we call them airplanes.

The poem I chose for today is this one ,,to me this is a love poem and not only do I know how he felt since I have lived absent from my love but feel how his wife must have felt to read his words,.anna

VALEDICTION
 

Lady with the frilled blouse And simple tartan skirt, Since you have left the house Its emptiness has hurt All thought. In your presence Time rode easy, anchored On a smile; but absence Rocked love's balance, unmoored The days. They buck and bound Across the calendar Pitched from the quiet sound Of your flower-tender Voice, Need breaks on my strand; You're gone, I am at sea. Until you resume command Self is in mutiny,
 

Seanus Heaney

annafair
March 6, 2006 - 01:39 am
We must have posted about the same time I HOPE you will make a copy of Jim's poem of your poem and keep it .. I would love to hear your voice because you say such lovely things ..and express yourself so well If you havent tried your hand at writing poetry you should ! HOORAY for both Your poem and Jim's arrangment in poetic form ...anna

Hats
March 6, 2006 - 01:44 am
AnnaFair,

"Valediction" by Seamus Heaney is so beautiful. It will have to be one of my favorites. I am going to write "Valediction" in my book journal. Can't you just feel his emotion spilling over? AnnaFair, I always love to read your thoughts about your husband. It is so obvious you and he shared a special love. Could you share one of your poems about him here and now? It would everything so special.

I wish all of our in house poets would continue to share their poems. We did that with Langston Hughes. It was so much fun. It just added that extra spice to our poetry meal.

Hats
March 6, 2006 - 01:47 am
MarjV,

I love Seamus Heaney's nature poems too. Aren't they great??? I can't wait to read more of his poems.

MarjV
March 6, 2006 - 06:28 am
This quote from the bio link above echoes "Valediction".

Heaney's work is filled with images of death and dying, and yet it is also firmly rooted in the life of this world. His tender elegies about friends and family members who have died serve many purposes: they mourn great losses, celebrate those who have gone before us, and recall the solace that remains to us, our memories. When asked recently about his abiding interest in memorializing the people of his life, he replied, "The elegaic Heaney? There's nothing else."

That poem speaks of deep and abiding love of missing companionship and ,also, to me, losses past and to come. It is simple while at the same time expressing the complex love of one human for another.

Hats
March 6, 2006 - 06:53 am
MarjV,

I like the way you have put it.

"It is simple while at the same time expressing the complex love of one human for another."

Scrawler
March 6, 2006 - 10:37 am
'Aye'
(from The Loaning)

Big voices in the womanless kitchen.
They never lit a lamp in the summertime
but took the twilight as it came
like solemn trees. They sat on in the dark
with their pipes red in their mouths, the talk come down
to Aye and Aye again and, when the dog shifted,
to curt There boy!

I closed my eyes
to make the light motes stream behind them
and my head went airy, my chair rode
high and low among branches and the wind
stirred up a rookery in the next long Aye.

~Seamus Heaney

This poem reminds me of my father. He to smoked a "pipe" and is a silent man reading in the kitchen. I used to sit silently next to him and watch as curls of smoke would drift toward the ceiling. He doesn't say "Aye" but the image of men sitting around the kitchen table, as described by Seamus Heaney, still remind me of him.

MarjV
March 6, 2006 - 11:19 am
"A womanless kitchen". How perceptive was Seamus' memory. The narrator could be experiencing it or remembering it in the second verse. A boy, I would think, playing with vision as in closing eyes to see the light motes.

Thanks for that, Scrawler.

That could be a wonderful painting. An experience, neither joyous nor sad. You can bring a feeling into it.

Hats
March 6, 2006 - 11:28 am
Scrawler, I like "Aye" too. I like your personal memory too.

annafair
March 6, 2006 - 12:10 pm
But he sure hits home with me .. "They never lit a lamp in the summertime but took the twilight as it came" that resonates with me I can almost feel the twilight. No one turned on lights until it was dark, dark, and people were ready for bed. Until then we sat on the porch , no light in the house. because lights meant they would only add to the heat. We moved on the swing ..stirring up a breeze and count the cars as they drove by..NOT too many either mind you..and by about 9PM there were almost none. There might be the tinkling of chipped ice in a glass if my mother had made a pitcher of iced tea. and chipped ice from the rectangle in the icebox...oh reading that poem took me back,not to Seamus home but mine...anna

Hats
March 6, 2006 - 12:12 pm
Anna, me too! I can identify with everything you described. Boy, it brings back memories. Remember the lightening bugs?

annafair
March 6, 2006 - 01:43 pm
I wrote a poem about summer evenings and the lightening bugs were "stars upon the lawn" I am sitting here overwhelmed by nostalgia .. I wonder what my grandchildren will recall My own children were raised much like my husband I were raised but my grandchildren are being raised do differently Lovingly but REALLY differently , no lightening bugs for them but all of these electronic gadgets Even the very young ones always want to "play with the puter" anna

Hats
March 6, 2006 - 01:52 pm
Anna, I know! My grandchildren are the same way. So young and they know so much about "puters."

MarjV
March 6, 2006 - 02:15 pm
The Other Side

I've read this poem over several times. Then I found this segment comment from the Literary Encyclopedia online:

In a paragraph speaking of divisions: 'Most telling in reminding us of the dividisions upon the ground, however, is "The Other Side", in which a Protestant neighborouring farmer comments from his fertile land upon the barrenness of Heaney's family's fields: "his fabulous, biblical dismissal,/that tongue of the chosen people"

So I give you the first section.

1

Thigh deep in sedge and marigolds 
a neighbor laid his shadow 
on the stream, vouching
 

"It's poor as Lazarus, that gound, 
and brushed away 
among the shaken leafage.
 

I lay where his lea sloped 
to meet our fallow, 
nested on moss and rushes, 
 

my ear swallowing, 
his fabulous biblical dismisisal, 
that tongue of chosen epople.
 

When he would stand like that 
on the other side, white-haired 
swinging his blackthorn
 

at thte marsh weeds, 
he prophesied above our scraggy acres, 
then turned away
 

towards his promised furrows 
on the hill, a weak of pollen 
drifting to our bank, nexgt season's tares.
 

- - - - -

What a description of a man on his land, making divisive comments. I felt right inside that scene.

From 1972 collection "Wintering Out" Tomorrow I'll post part 2.

The division of the Protestant & Catholic families is symbolised there in addition to the literal division.

And let's see, I assume the use of Lazarus refers to the diseased beggar in the New Testament, Luke 16.

Jim in Jeff
March 6, 2006 - 05:35 pm
MarjV, that's a poignant (1st stanza?) to SH's "The Other Side." But I only enjoyed it after reading your info that it was a Protestant/Catholic neighbour's views. Now I dig it, thanks to MarjV!

I'd also think "poor as Lazarus" refers to Jesus' parable of the beggar in Luke 16. Another New Testament "Lazarus" was raised from his recent death by Jesus...but he and his sisters seemed to me fairly well-off financially (relatively speaking).

Hats, thanks so much for forgiving me for using your intimate thoughts to us as my example of "poetry being sometimes expressed in our posts here." I could also have chosen several recent posts by others here as my example. Thanks again for not suing me, Hats.

Thanks, all... for your several helpful comments on helping me better understand SH's "dark side" poetry perspectives.

One such help was Annafair's post that she has in past written many "dark feelings" poems during midst of her many life's crises. And yet, somehow Annafair has moved along. As must we all. Today she often shares with us warm and uplifting thoughts. As should even SH, yes/no?

To me, "Valediction" doesn't quite equal "warm wishes." Nor does "the womanless kitchen." These are poignant snapshots of past images, evoking many of our own half-buried memories.

And perhaps poignant images is all we ought to ask of any poet. But Emily wrote dark themes...death (I heard a fly buzz, etc) and also: "Wild Nights!" It's unfair to compare ANY poet's collective output with Emily's. I just wish for a few happy images among SH's many dreary ones.

Hats
March 7, 2006 - 02:56 am
I hope we have a month of Emily Dickinson during our monthly poet choices. I am also greatly looking forward to Mary Oliver.

Jim in Jeff, I am delighted with the poem being dedicated to me. You should have seen me smiling. If any of our inhouse poets would like to do the same, please do. I think it's so awesome that poets can take any words and build a poem. It's wonderful.

MarjV, you picked a really tough poem, I think. You were able to get the meat from it. Then, break it down for us. Along our way with Seamus Heaney I am enjoying the thoughts about Ireland and the issues the Irish have faced in the past and face today. This is another great month. Now back to my poetry book.

I miss our the poems from our inhouse poets. I miss Anna's poems, Zinnia's poems, Barbara's poems. Of course, Jim in Jeff's poems. I thought we were going to share Seamus Heaney and our Seniornetter poems too. It would make the month complete. I think Seamus Heaney would enjoy hanging out with other talented people.

Hats
March 7, 2006 - 03:25 am
Oh, I love "I heard a fly buzz." It's one of my favorites. Well, this is not poor Emily's month. Boohoo.

annafair
March 7, 2006 - 09:40 am
That our poet this month was born in small croweded farm home and all that implies . His younger brother was killed in an accident , a cousin was killed in a roadside bomb. I am not sure even I could put that aside easily,. His was a harsh life , I know about harsh lives here in America Not mine but some of my relatives who were poor sharecroppers in the south, my cousins who worked the fields their fathers sharecropped , who often had no shoes , whose walls were covered with newspapers applied with flour and water paste. no running water, no help except what the rest of the family could afford to give No government handouts or help either . So this poet has moved on I think as much as he could My cousins did I know but still the memory of the past is there, They can rejoice that all of them were able to get an education , find decent jobs and some even opened thier own businesses America itself moved on Ireland is better than it was but it is a small country and the problems are still there I think Heaney while he has been successful he cant forget those who are gone ..I stiil grieve for my husband and the cancer that took him is still killing people I have a dark side but I dwell on the good memories , that is my gift to myself however everyone cant do that. Today I chose a poem about the little village Heaney knew as a child . this is a rural memory I recall when I visited my relatives in the country before rural electricification brought electric lights and radios and eventually TV. It was a time when oil lamps cast shadows on the walls and when night time came it was DARK DARK DARK and when the water at the pumps would freeze the need to melt it was uppermost in the minds ..so I have known ANAHORISH only it went by other names ''anna AND of course we will get to Emily

ANAHORISH
 

My ”place of clear water”. the first hill in the world where springs washed into the shiny grass
 

and darkened cobbles on the bed of the lane, ANAHORISH, soft gradient of , consonant, vowel -meadow,
 

after-image of lamps swung through the yards on winter evenings. With pail and barrows
 

those mound -dwellers go waist-deep in mist to break the light ice at wells and dunghills.
 

Seamus Heaney

annafair
March 7, 2006 - 09:48 am
I know it is spring
 

Not because the light sifting through the new born leaves is softer Not because my daffodils bloomed last week and now are gone Not because my plum tree in its lacy gown dropped its buds like snow upon the greening lawn Not because the lilacs await their turn and the iris green swards heralds the coming of the Empress in her royal gown Not because the birds are searching for just the place to build their nests Always it seems in some tree I had Hoped to remove or vines that need tearing down Not because the world looks cleaner washed by warmer rains instead of snow Not because the earth smells new and robins pull worms from newly turned sod No all these things tell me it is here BUT still …
 
it is the sound this  Saturday morning  
Of my neighbors gasoline mower  
Being pushed in precision across his lawn  
The first  of many Saturday forays  
Until once again Autumn sings her song. 
 

anna alexander 4/9/05©

MarjV
March 7, 2006 - 11:13 am
I think SH's poem "Anahorish" has examples of light and dark. As in the dark cobbles and the shiny grass. And even the name of the town (which I just read is where he went to school as a child) has his described softness. " soft gradient of , consonant, vowel -meadow." Remarkable! And then in turn the poem goes into winter descriptions.

Anyone have a clue why he used the term "mound dwellers".

- - - -

Great reminder of spring , Anna.

Later I'll type second section of "The Other Side"

annafair
March 7, 2006 - 11:44 am
I dont know his going to winter to me it is saying he remembers it in all seasons As to mound dwellers I dont know about Ireland but where I grew up there was a place called Mounds Park which had these huge mounds. built by early Indians which are really not Indians since that was what Columbus called them thinking he had arrived in India . but early peoples who built burial mounds Perhaps there were some in Irelands history as well Since I knew of mounds dwellers from my past I guessed perhaps other places had them as well. Like many ancient places Mounds Park was not really protected until years after I moved away. I think it now has a museum etc but when I was young it was a place to picnic and some of it was destoyed by usage.

What is so neat about our doing on poet a month is we are learning a lot of other things besides. It was easier to relate to Langston Hughes poetry because he spoke of places we knew and subjects we knew about . It is a bit different to read poetry that that is about a country whose places are alien to us. For me with my curious mind it is VERY SPECIAL indeed ..anna

Hats
March 7, 2006 - 12:37 pm
What a good poem to choose for us to read. The last lines made me smile. I can see the robins and lilacs in my head, such a pretty scene. Thank you.

Scrawler
March 7, 2006 - 12:46 pm
Unlike some of you, I grew up in San Francisco during the 1950s. We used to turn on every light in the house and lock all the doors to ward off any intruders. The only time we ever saw the "country" was two or three weeks in August when we went to the Russian River in California - a popular resort area by than. Than it was just as you described. But for me I preferred the noise of traffic which even now I imagine as huge waves crashing against the rocks. To me the city was much more exciting than the country although now I enjoy both - they are just different experiences.

Leavings:

A soft whoosh, the sunset blaze
of straw on blackened stubble,
a thatch-deep, freshening
barbarous crimson burn -

I rode down England
as they fired the crop
that was the leavings of a crop,
the smashed tow-colored barley.

down from Ely's Lady Chapel,
the sweet tenor Latin
forever banished
the sumptuous windows

threshed clear by Thomas Cromwell
Which circle does he tread,
scalding on cobbles,
each one a broken statue's head?

After midnight, after summer,
to walk in a sparking field
to smell dw and ashes
and start Will Brangwen's ghost


from the hot soot -
a breaking sheaf of light,
abroad in the hiss
and clash of smoking.

~Seamus Heaney

Talking about the 1950s also reminded me of the lines in this poem: "the sweet tenor Latin/forever banished..." At this time we had an older Irish priest that spoke latin with a deep tenor voice. Nowdays, the Catholic mass is nothing like it was back than. I still remember trembling at his Good Friday sermon - his voice could literally "[scold] the cobbles."

MarjV
March 7, 2006 - 01:46 pm
What an interesting memory, Scrawler, of the priest's voice.

Now for part II of the Other Side where Heaney is talking about the Protestant neighbor farmer.

"The Other Side"
II

For days we would rehearese 
each p atriarchal dictum: 
Lazarus, the Pharaoh, Solomon
 

and David and Goliath rolled 
magnificentlyl, like loads of hay 
too big for our small lanes,
 

or faltered on a rut - 
'Your side of othe house, I believe, 
hardly rule by the Book at all.'
 

His brain was a whitewashed kitchen 
hung with texts, swept tidy 
as the body o' the kirk.
 

- - - -

Sounds like they were really really tired of the tirades. Made me think of people I've known who insist on throwing around biblical quotes every other sentence!


I know Ireland had mounds; just couldn't quite figure why it was used in that line of "Anahorish". Unless - [a new thought is forming and an image]- it seemed to be people of the past walking there in that misty winter night!

Jim in Jeff
March 7, 2006 - 04:50 pm
YES, MarjV! And I'm honored to now pop up and...second your nomination!

In "Anahorish," Heaney was for sure again depicting a vivid past scene...this time a town in his earliest memories. So he may have used "mound-dwellers" to suggest that town's founders rising from burial mounds to tend town-chores for their beloved descendants.

That might or might not be Heaney's primary intent for using the term. But it's a lovely thought, I think.

P.S. - Is it just me? Or do any others also, now and again, think "Dylan Thomas" as we read Heaney's vivid snapshots of life? Such as Thomas's classic "Christmas in Wales"?

MarjV
March 7, 2006 - 07:26 pm
Perfect example ,as Jeff states about Heaney's life snapshots likened to Dylan Thomas. From "Christmas in Wales"

"All the Christmases roll down toward the two-tongued sea, like a cold and headlong moon bundling down the sky that was our street; and they stop at the rim of the ice-edged fish-freezing waves, and I plunge my hands in the snow and bring out whatever I can find. In goes my hand into that wool-white bell-tongued ball of holidays resting at the rim of the carol-singing sea, and out come Mrs. Prothero and the firemen."

http://www.bfsmedia.com/MAS/Dylan/Christmas.html

annafair
March 7, 2006 - 09:30 pm
You are right he is talking about people from the past...I am reading a book called Princes of Ireland and this evening St Patrick has been introduced and Christianity...the scene is the telling of the Biblical story. the characters have been introduced to the idea that belief in druids and the demanded sacrifices are wrong ..and are being baptised.One of the people says what about my father who died five days ago ? and they go to his "mound" and dig up his body and baptise him..then I remembered how a cemetary used to look with the raised earth above the ground , the mound dwellers ..Thanks for pointing us in the right direction. and yes his poetry reminds of Dylan Thomas Hoorah for our posters who lead us to an understanding of the poets thoughts and poems ..anna

annafair
March 7, 2006 - 09:31 pm
One thing I never expected when we started sharing the poems of this poet How many his poems were going to take me along. We lived two years bout an hour's drive from Paris and often went in for a day sightseeing and just marveling at the fact we were THERE It was an exciting time and one that made us feel both shy and sort of new with each other,. This poem reminds of a winter time day around dusk, We stopped at a bakery , bought a loaf of bread, some butter, cheese and a bottle of wine . My husband had to use a pocket knife to cut the cheese etc and we sat near the banks of the Seine and had our dinner ,..walked a bit and it was like falling in love all over again.. that is a memory I had forgotten ..touches me ..anna

TWICE SHY
 

Her scarf al la Bardot, In suede flats for the walk, She came with me one evening For air and friendly talk. We crossed the quiet river, Took the embankment walk.
 

Traffic holding its breath , Sky a tense diaphragm: Dusk hung like a backcloth That shook where a swan swam, Tremulous as a hawk Hanging deadly , calm.
  

A vacuum of need Collapsed each hunting heart But tremulously we held As hawk and prey apart, Preserved classic decorum. Deployed our talk with art.
 

Our juvenilia Had taught us both to wait, Not to publish feeling And regret it all too late- Mushroom loves already Had puffed and burst in hate,
 

So, chary and excited As a thrush linked on a hawk, We thrilled to the March twilight With nervous childish talk: Still waters running deep Along the embankment walk.
 

Seamus Heaney

JoanK
March 7, 2006 - 10:15 pm
Jim and JEFF: I'm so glad you saw the poetry in HATS' post. I have tried to tell her before that her posts are like gifts, but I don't think she believed me.

Yes, I too relate to Honeymoon Flight. Flying for me is always a mixture of terror and delight. I feel really privileged to live at a time where I can see the Earth and the towering clouds in a way that hundreds of generations were unable to do. But at the same time, I am convinced that it is the last thing I'll ever see. (But oh, the joy when we're on the ground and I'm still alive!)

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 01:40 am
JoanK, you are so kind. And you are a treasure to us. When I read your posts I always learn a great deal. You make me laugh too.

I am behind in reading the posts. Please forgive me.

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 02:19 am
Alphabets


A shadow his father makes with joined hands
And thumbs and fingers nibbles on the wall
Like a rabbit's head. He understands
He will understand more when he goes to school.


There he draws smoke with chalk the whole first week,
Then draws the forked stick that they call a Y.
This is writing. A swan's neck and swan's back
Make the 2 he can see now as well as say.


Two rafters and a cross-tie on the slate
Are the letter some call ah, some call ay.
There are charts, there are headlines, there is a right
Way to hold the pen and a wrong way.


First it is 'copying out,' and then 'English'
Marked correct with a little leaning hoe,
Smells of inkwells rise in the classroom hush.
A globe in the window tilts like a coloured O.


By Seamus Heaney

I love this poem. Going off to school and leaving mom and dad's arm is like going across the sea or entering an alien world. Still babies, we look at a 2 and think of a swan. The smoke of the chalk is exciting. I always wanted to wash the black boards. I loved clapping the erasures together. I had the worse time learning to write the letter "w." I can still remember the teacher's name, Mrs. Weinrach. My kindergarten teacher's name was Mrs. Coin. The early days of school are special memories. In "Alphabets," Seamus Heaney takes me back to those wonderful, old day.

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 02:25 am
I posted only Part I. I also wanted to mention my love of the globes in classrooms. I love the way Seamus Heaney writes about the globes.

"A globe in the window tilts like a coloured O."

annafair
March 8, 2006 - 04:38 am
You posted a poem I havent come across as yet..and like you it takes me back to the first grade. I can see my teacher, her name I have forgotten,She was an older woman with grey hair and a button downed mouth but she was an excellent teacher. I learned so much in first grade that all of my classes later were made easier. I regret that the blackboard is not used like then because it was such a learning tool As we were sent to the blackboard in groups the ones remaining in thier seats were learning too. As they were corrected we watched carefully so we would not make the same mistake, We learned how to WRITE from the beginning not print. So most of the people from my generation can still write well with clarity. And when we were introduced to ink and the little wells in our desk were filled with that wonderful liquid I felt so grown up. I remember we had little cloth squares held together with a brass clip to wipe the pens when we were through ...WOW ANOTHER poem that carries me BACK .. Who would have thought that would happen>? anna

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 05:44 am
I loved going to the blackboard in groups too. It made learning easier. I did dread to have my name called to go to the board for arithmetic, especially the word problems.

"Alphabets" is in the book titled "The Haw Lantern." It is also in "Selected Poems 1966-1987." My library did not own "The Haw Lantern." I have "Selected Poems.

MarjV
March 8, 2006 - 06:19 am
The poems posted by ANna and Hats I had not read as yet.

Twice Shy[They both are just lovely as can be. And have lightness.] Love the walk along the embankment. learning each other. Such a scene. I laughed as I read "preserved classic decorum".

And Alphabets ! what a wonderful childhood song. And another of his father pictures in the first verse.

I remember blackboard races to do multiplication tables.

I wish the library books were my own to underline and mark up!

Anna: the book, Princes of Ireland, sounds just fascinating.

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 06:44 am
I am reading and rereading your comments about the different poems by Seamus Heaney. Both of you have a gift of getting inside a difficult poem and finding meaning. Then, breaking it down for others to read.

I am really enjoying this month. Seamus Heaney is a poet I will want to read again in future days. I am learning about the beauty of ordinary life. I am also learning about Ireland. What more can a person ask for?

MarjV
March 8, 2006 - 06:56 am

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 07:10 am

annafair
March 8, 2006 - 08:08 am
it is by Edward Rutherfurd and he has a new book out called Rebels of Ireland. It was a bit hard to get into but now I can hardly put ti down. It has over 700 pages in a paperback and the font is smaller than I would like but he has me as a captive reader. A few years ago since my great grandparents and grandparents came from Ireland I started reading Irish history with THE GREAT HUNGER since it was a true book about the famine and why there was a great exodus from Ireland and that is what brought my ancestors to America.

This book is written much like James Michener and Leon Uris wrote .Real History peopled with real people and the authors imagination. Since the type is smaller than I like I wont finish it soon but will be happy to send it to you Marj when I am finished I cant keep anymore books! I have 3 books by Heaney but not the one you have Hats It would seem he is a very prolific poet anna

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 08:17 am
AnnaFair,

I think Seamus Heaney is a prolific poet. It amazes me how poets are able to think of their ideas and write in such a beautiful way.

MarjV
March 8, 2006 - 09:39 am
That would be super, Anna. I'll e-mail you my home address.

I have 6 Heaney books from the library. The only one I didn't request was his lectures. A long list on AMazon of his books. Not all poetry tho since he has lectures published and also has done new translations of Beowulf.

Wales and Ireland have long fascinated me

Scrawler
March 8, 2006 - 12:23 pm
The lough waters
Can petrify woods:
Old oars and posts
Over the years
Harden their grain,
Incarcerte ghosts

Of sap and season.
The shallows lap
And give and take:
Constant ablutions,
Such a drowning love
Stun a stake

To stalagmite.
Dead lava,
The cooling star,
Coal and diamond
Or sudden birth
Of burnt meteor

Are too simple,
Without the lure
That relic stored-
A piece of stone
On the shelf at school,
Oatmeal coloured.

~Seamus Heaney

Seamus Heaney's poetry seems to be generating all our collective "memories"; so I thought "Relic of Memory" was appropriate. Speaking of "rocks" did I ever tell you about the time I put a really big box of rocks I had collected on the Russian River and hid in the back of my father's car to take home. Only when he started the car, the back end of the car was so low that it dragged on the road. When he stopped and popped the trunk, he was not happy when he discovered the box of rocks - I was allowed to keep only one - a smooth shaped stone that the river had made perfect for skipping across the river with.

MarjV
March 8, 2006 - 12:41 pm
Such a girl you were , Scrawler.

In my head I've always pronounced 'lough' as lo. However in the online dictionary it is not that way at all.http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lough As I keep looking over the poem I see there are numerous words describing the water's action.

That poem just brings you along to the stone on the shelf. Like memories we have stored. Pretty neat.

MarjV
March 8, 2006 - 12:58 pm
And now Part III of "The Other Side"
The continuing description of the Protestant neighbor. Creates a little different picture of the man.

III

Then sometimes when the rosary was dragging 
mournfully on in the kitchen 
we would hear his step round the gable
 

though not until after the litany 
would the knock come to the door 
and the casual whistle strike up
 

on the doorstep. 'A right-looking night,' 
he might say, 'I was dandering by 
and says I, I might as well call.'
 

<ppre>But now I stand behind him in the dark yard,in the moan of prayers, He puts a hand in a pocket
 

or taps a little tune with the blackthorn 
shyly, as if he were party to 
lovemaking or a stranger's weeping.
 

Should I slip away, I wonder,  
or go up and touch his shoulder 
and talk about the weather
 

or the price of grass-seed?
 

- - - -
It also gives us a glimpse of family spirituality. And have we often been shy when coming on the sound of prayers being offered aloud?

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 02:27 pm
Your comments about "Relics in Memory" made me laugh out loud. I could just see the car dragging because of your rocks. That is too funny!

MarjV,

I love Part III of the other side. The dialogue is like some of the Irish brogue I have heard in the movies.

Should I slip away, I wonder,
or go up and touch his shoulder
and talk about the weather or the price of grass-seed?


These lines seem to show how much we honor any man or woman who has chosen the religious life. To hold a personal conversation, other than about sickness and death, what do you say?

When nuns would get on the subway or I would visit my friends Catholic school, I always felt like the nuns were really straight from God's arms. I really respected and loved the appearance of nuns.

Jim in Jeff
March 8, 2006 - 03:38 pm
I'd praised him in February's Langston Hughes discussions here...and got nice "seconds" from several forum friends.

A Life Well-Lived, for sure. His obit is in various nationwide newspapers today. Here's a link to one, which also summarizes a few of his many accomplishments: http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/obituaries/14044615.htm

I'm today thankful for having briefly met him in Washington DC 7 years ago.

Getting back to Seamus Heaney...his "Relics of Memory" tweaked mine too. I guess most "poor rural little boys" kept a secret "treasures box." Mine was filled with...little boy stuff of all sorts. I'll not list these...but think "Tom Sawyer" and you'll have the general idea.

Hats
March 8, 2006 - 03:42 pm
Jim in Jeff,

I heard about Gordon Parks death today too. I felt very sad. Thank you for including the newspaper clipping. I remembered you writing about having met him and your fond memories of him.

I had those "relics" too. I loved ribbons and buttons and dolly things. Seamus Heaney makes us dig back and find those precious times again.

Jim in Jeff
March 8, 2006 - 04:07 pm
"Ribbons and buttons and dolly things," Hats? Sounds OK to me...for your box.

Me, at one point my box had: a dead honey-bee; a yoyo; a barlow knife with one of two blades broken; my pocket-book "Bambi"; a school picture of "Mary Lou"; an auto speedometer I'd often twirl in a silly goal to someday see its numbers turnover to "000000."

Contents of our individual keepers-boxes could be a "litmus test." Trouble is, it would only reflect us at an earlier point in time.

If I maintained such a treasures-box today, it'd include several lovely thoughts posted here recently by gentle forum friends.

MarjV
March 8, 2006 - 05:34 pm
Jeff what a perfect little boy box! I had a Bambi glow-in-the-dark picture.

annafair
March 8, 2006 - 08:44 pm
If I maintained such a treasures-box today, it'd include several lovely thoughts posted here recently by gentle forum friends. What a very kind thing to say ...I had odds and ends I do remember finding special stones and when I returned from a bus trip to my favorite aunt and uncles farm ( where they retired) and it has a small stream that marked the end of their forty acres and I had collected a number of stones to take home. I boarded the Greyhound bus and was carrying my HEAVY suitcase to my seat and it hit the edge of the another seat...the suitcase came open and my stones rolled down the aisle I cant ever recall being more embarrassed than that moment. Several people helped me but some just sat in judgement!

My mothers box which I loved to look at had a scrap of fabric from her wedding dress,. envelopes with snips of hair from our first haircuts , first baby teeth, odd buttons, coins she has picked up at some time and other odd things I dont remember but the ones I mentioned stick in my memory and I can almost feel that fabric scrap it has yellowed with age amd was soft and I think it was silk. pinned to the scrap was a smaller piece of lace that decorated the dress . Funny though my parents had pictures of themselves taken at variuos times but none with them wearing wedding attire. Perhaps it was because my father was Catholic and mother a Protestant and they were married by Justice of Peace NOW I have to tell you THAT IS AN OLD MEMORY wow you dont think of those things everyday ..anna

Hats
March 9, 2006 - 03:05 am
I think Seamus Heaney would enjoy reading the posts written here about his poems. I believe he would feel honored. It is amazing how far one poem can take us. It is very exciting.

Hats
March 9, 2006 - 03:31 am
"Manifesting that order of poetry where we can at last grow up to that which we stored up as we grew."

This quote seems to fit our memory boxes. To me this means my childhood is always with me. It is a part of who I am today. My diaries, my ribbons, and all the rest might have been given away, lost, whatever but the child who played with those "relics" is still inside of me now. What I kept says a lot about who I am today. The ribbon was not just a ribbon, the Bambi book was not just a Bambi book, the rock was not just a rock, the scrap of fabric was not just fabric. Those "relics" are the symbols of what we wanted in our lives, our dreams, or what we needed in our lives. All those needs, dreams, desires are in our hearts today, no matter our age.

Seamus Heaney is a masterpiece in thought.

As adults, we pull from our childhoods in order to master the adult world. We are like trains travelling back and forth on a journey from present to our past and back again.

This is possibly why I like to read the same books I read as a little girl. I am going back to the world of Peter Pan in a search for something I want or need today.

MarjV
March 9, 2006 - 06:37 am
That's a marvelous quote by SH, Hats.

Hats
March 9, 2006 - 06:40 am
MarjV, I love it!

annafair
March 9, 2006 - 08:00 am
I am mesmerized by your thoughts, When I read them they become mine and I find myself nodding in agreement .I am doing it this minute. How good it is we retain those memories. Once I had a dream and I was in this place like a post office and there were letter boxes reaching to the sky . Some were old and some were new and I realized each had a lock. The keys were stored in my mind and I realized a word, a look,a smell some memory from the past was needed to open each box. Someone had mentioned something that reminded me of a forgotten scene and I guess that triggered my dream But my mind was telling me something >> Dont forget, these memories of the past are treasures for your future.

Today I chose a poem for the name. It brougth forth a memory when my aunt and uncle had retired to this 40 acre farm they had a proper garden, two cows , a horse and chickens when I visited my job was to feed the chickens ,collect the eggs and pick vegetable for our meals. I loved every minute there, in fact I always dreamed of returning and living my life out in that spot. In August the blackberry bushes planted along the fences I think by the original owner as this was a log cabin that later had been covered with wood siding and three rooms added. These bushes were old and would be covered with berries, If I was there then my hands were needed to pick them as my aunt would can them Of course we also ate them in cold cream with a bit of sugar. As I grew older August was a busy time for me so they picked them alone but each Christmas they would drive to our house and deliver a case of dark jars .. for our family we could hardly wait for mother to turn the contents into blackberry cobblers. You dont see a lot of blackberries in stores and I suspect there are few grown now Here is the poem and the ending I found astonishing >WHY WERENT THEY CANNED and used in winter ?How sad all that goodness went to waste. Perhaps they didnt have the means , the mason jars to can them ...? anna

Blackberry Picking

for Philip Holsbaum
 

Late August, given heavy rain and sun For a full week, the blackberries would ripen. At first, just one, a glossy purple clot. Among others, red, green, hard as a knot. You ate that first one and its flesh was sweet Like thickened wine; summer’s blood was in it Leaving stains upon the tongue and lust for Picking. Then red ones inked up and that hunger Sent us out with milk-cans, pea-tins, jam-pots Where briars scratched and wet grass bleached our boots. Round hayfields, cornfields and potato-drills We trekked and picked until the cans were full, Until the tinkling bottom had been covered With green ones, and on top big dark blobs burned Like a plate of eyes. Our hands were peppered With thorn pricks, our palms sticky as Bluebeard’s.
 

We hoarded the fresh berries in the byre. But when the bath was filled we found a fur, Of rat-grey fungus , glutting on our cache. The juice was stinking too. Once off the bush The fruit fermented , the sweet flesh turned sour. I always felt like crying, It wasn’t fair That all the lovely canfuls smelt of rot. Each year I hoped they’d keep, knew they would not.
 

Seamus Heaney

Hats
March 9, 2006 - 08:20 am
Anna,

I love to read about your memories. This poem fits your memory perfectly. The ending is sad. I wonder whether Seamus Heaney is trying to tell us something else? I don't know.

I picked blueberries or blackberries, I can't remember, in New Jersy one time with family friends. More went in my tummy than in the bucket.

Anna, the ending to this poem really puzzles me. I think of canning too.

Scrawler
March 9, 2006 - 11:55 am
I think in some ways "our posts" are our treasure boxes. By remembering the past we keep it alive and by sharing it with others we keep it alive for all of us.

I'm keeping alive a special treasure right now as I watch the snow fall outside my window. I can't believe that it is snowing in March - in Hillsboro, Oregon! My apartment over looks lots of trees; so much so that it feels like I live in a tree house. So the snow is not only falling on the trees, but in a way on me as well. It's so close if I reached out I could touch it. I guess in some ways we do get to be kids once again. I used to like to climb trees and hide up there in the tree watching the world pass below me and now I do the same in a sense as I watch the traffic down below me nestled in my own treehouse.

Gifts of Rain: Part I:

Cloudburst and steady downpour now
for days.
Still mammal,
straw-footed on the mud
he begins to sense weather
by his skin.

A nimble snout of flood
licks over stepping stones
and goes uprooting.


He fords
his life by sounding.


Soundings [to be continued]


~Seamus Heaney.

"Soundings" or in my case lack there of in the snow that slowly falls all around me.

MarjV
March 9, 2006 - 12:57 pm
The poem above:
Ah! The mammal goes thru life [fords] by taking soundings [analyzing or measuring what is going on around it]. In other words I think it says mammal doesn't just rush out without a thought.

Fantastic descriptions in the blackberry poem.
"You ate that first one and its flesh was sweet Like thickened wine"
Or the sound of the green ones:"Until the tinkling bottom had been covered With green ones"
Or the smell of the rotting fruit. Sort of an admonition against the hoarding we are inclined to do.

His descriptive poems are such a delight to me.

MarjV
March 9, 2006 - 01:44 pm
Just came across this in an essay about Heaney in reference to the blackberry poem:

".....The natural world , in ways premonitory perhaps of the historical tragedy of the land itself, is often threatening or dangerous (in his nature poems). or - as in "Blackberry Picking" where the bathful of picked fruit immediately starts to rot - disappointing......It is a writing which is also anxious to probe and delve into the local landscape in an attempt to discover some unconscious or preconscious poetric resource......"

Hats
March 9, 2006 - 02:41 pm
MarjV,

Thanks for finding that essay. That explains the last part of "Blackbery Picking."

Scrawler,

I haven't read your poem yet. I am coming back.

Hats
March 10, 2006 - 01:49 am
Scrawler,

Thank you for posting "Gifts of Rain" by Seamus Heaney. Without seeing rain, I can hear the sound of its pitter patter in my head. I think that's magical.

anneofavonlea
March 10, 2006 - 05:08 am
can't follow this discussion as I am off sitting grandchildren for a while, so no computer ready, so will read all the Seamus heeney poetry when I get home.

Anneo

Hats
March 10, 2006 - 05:44 am
Anneo,

We miss you.

annafair
March 10, 2006 - 07:45 am
For all the research , the participation and the sharing here.I can hardly stay away to read the poems you are sharing and how each one speaks to you .. Anneo we will be glad when you return ..I know you have read a lot of Heaney's poems so will look forward to your thinking. Today I am sharing a poem about an event I saw again when I visited a relative on a farm. They had added some property and wanted to know where to dig for a well. I would say a goodly crowd , 20 or more was there ..do I really remember them digging and find a bit below the surface wet soil? I cant say it has been so long ago but my feeling that is so is because my mind is remembering there was a marveling feeling in the group..He had found water! We had a well dug here when we first moved by a man with a simple method of putting a pipe and a pump down and washing water from a hose until the pump brought up not the water from the hose but it tapped into an underground stream As that gushed upon the ground it was clear except for chips of oyster shell. The man said that it meant at one time the James River about two miles away had once ran where our house now stood. Why its channel changed but it had and the oyster shells were a glimse of eternity , the past..the James River was full of oysters when the first settlers arrived in 1620 and they wrote about how sweet and wonderful they were The ocean has intruded and we have fewer oyster beds because the oysters do not grow in the saltiness of the Atlantic. here is the poem..anna

THE DIVINER
 

Cut from the green hedge a forked hazel stick That he held tight by the arms of the V: Circling the terrain, hunting the pluck Of water, nervous, but professionally
 

Unfussed. The pluck came sharp as a sting. The rod jerked with precise convulsions, Spring water suddenly broadcasting Through a green hazel its secret stations.
 

The bystanders would ask to have a try. He handed them the rod without a word. It lay dead in their grasp till nonchalantly He gripped expectant wrists, The hazel stirred.
 

Seamus Heaney

MarjV
March 10, 2006 - 08:59 am
The Water Diviner people have always fascinated me. I know people really can do it. And that poem is just a wonder of images.

I like the line: "The pluck came sharp as a sting; the rod jerked with precise convulsions". I had no idea that was how it worked.I thought it was just a gentle tug on the stick that the diviner had to discern.

Great offering!

Scrawler
March 10, 2006 - 11:52 am
A man wading lost fields
breaks the pane of flood:

A flower of mud -
water blooms up to his reflection

like a cut swaying
its red spoors through a basin.

His hand grub
where the spade has uncastled

sunken drills, an atlantis
he depends on. So

he is hooped to where he planted
and sky and ground

are running naturally among his arms
that group the cropping land.

[to be continued] Seamus Heaney

I can't help but feel that Heaney is writing about man being naturally connected to the sky and ground - that as we labor in the fields, so the sky gives us rain and the ground soaks up that rain so that our crops can grow.

MarjV
March 10, 2006 - 12:14 pm
THe poem I wanted to offer today is very long and unfortunately not online anywhere.

It's titled "Out of the Bag" so if you have it at home in a book
please do read thru it. I'll post the first verse and a couple
of the last ones. It is divided in 4 long sections.

Oho! I said as I read the first verse. It's like a ballad of life
And it brought a big smile as I read.

Out of the bag

All of us came in Doctor Kerline's bag.
He'd arrive with it, disappear to the room
And by the time he'd reappear to wash.......

..........................

......and she's asleep

In sheets put on for the doctor, weddingi presents
That showed up again and again, bridal
And usual and useful at births and deaths.

Me at the bedside, incubating for real,
Peering, appearing to her as she closes
And opens her eys, then lapses back

Into a faraway smile whose precint of vision
I would enter every time, to assist and be asked
In that hoarsened whisper of triumph,

"And what do you think
Of the new wee baby the doctor brought for us all
When I was asleep?"

MarjV
March 10, 2006 - 12:22 pm
"he is hooped to where he planted
and sky and ground

are running naturally among his arms
that group the cropping land. "


- - - - I sure agree with Scrawler where she states this poem is pointing towards man's connection to land;and it is pointed out pretty clearly in these few lines.

"hooped to where he is planted" is quite a phrase., "hoop" has a meaning: "to bind or fasten with or as if with a hoop"; so it fits purrrrrrrrrfectly.

And "group" has a meaning: : an assemblage of related organisms

~Marj
[from Merria-Webster online dict]

Hats
March 10, 2006 - 01:32 pm
Field of Vision


I remember this woman who sat for years
in a wheelchair, looking straight ahead
Out the window at sycamore trees unleafing
And leafing at the far end of the lane.


Straight out past the TV in the corner,
The stunted, agitated hawthorn bush,
The same small calves with their backs to wind and rain,
The same acre of ragwort, the same mountain.


She was steadfast as the big window itself.
Her row was clear as the chrome bits of the chair.
She never lamented once and she never
Carried a spare ounce of emotional weight.


Face to face with her was an education
of the sort you got across a well-braced gate--
One of those lean, clean, iron, roadside ones
Between two whitewashed pillars, where you could see


Deeper into the country than you expected
And discovered that the field behind the hedge
Grew more distinctly strange as you kept standing
Focused and drawn in by what barred the way.


Seamus Heaney

This is another poem, I feel, that teaches us to appreciate what is around us. The lady in the poem is admirable. Everyday she sits in the same place, looking out the same window. Each day she finds wonderful enjoyment, not in the TV and the bushes and calves.

I think she is looking beyond what the average person would see. She is enjoying her memories of the past. Perhaps, thinking of her future. Whatever she is holding onto in her mind is enough to make her live without worries and sorrows. The Sycamore tree's folding and unfolding buds are whispering some piece of wisdom to her.

I have done this a time or two. I become so caught up in a dream of what I will do or want to do, I find myself smiling all by myself. Then, that times passes. I get up from my chair or couch feeling so much lighter, ready to go and set the world on fire.

Hats
March 10, 2006 - 01:50 pm
I am continuing to enjoy all the poems posted.

MarjV
March 10, 2006 - 02:31 pm
And perhaps she is drawn into the mysteries of nature. And the relationship to humankind; much like Heaney.

Then I had another thought- haven't we met people who on face to face encounter had a depth of spirit in their eyes!!!!

Hats
March 10, 2006 - 02:36 pm
MarjV, good point.

annafair
March 11, 2006 - 07:46 am
each one is like a small jewel A large one would be too much but small ones you can take in and keep , take them out and admire their small charm ..Heaney is writing about the small things in life, the things that make our days and years..the precious things ..I see that woman year after year watching the tree leafing and unleafing..What a lovely way to say the years are passing ..spring and fall love it ..

Well before I go out and start cleaning the winter's debris from my yard I will post my offering for today. There are so many lines in this poem that just jump our and say HELLO I know you, I dont think I fully appreciated my good fortune when I was young to know both city and country life. But I did attend a fair where local farmers brought thier cows to sell ..There were always church women who had a booth where they sold refreshments ,,and even some vendors ( local ) who sometimes offered barbeque or someone with a popcorn machine, or even a cotton candy machine. There would be metal containers of iced bottled drinks. Men did not come alone but the family came and it was day from farm duties and fun. IT was an event. Here Heaney is describing such a day ..and his memories and how they dont have them any more . The photograph takes him back but what I love are the memories it holds. anna

ANCESTRAL PHOTOGRAPH
	 

Jaws puff round and solid as a turnip, Dead eyes are statue’s and the upper lip Bullies the heavy mouth down to a droop. A bowler suggests the stage Irishman Whose look was two parts scorn, two parts dead pan. His silver watch chain girds him like a hoop.
 

My father’s uncle, from whom he learnt the trade, Long fixed in sepia tints, begins to fade And must come down. Now on the bedroom wall There is a faded patch where he has been- As if a bandage had been ripped from skin- Empty plaque to a house’s rise and fall.
  

Twenty years ago I herded cattle Into pens or held them against a wall Until my father won at arguing His own price on a crowd of cattelmen Who handled rumps, groped teats, stood, paused and then Bought a round of drinks to clinch the bargains.
 

Uncle and nephew , fifty years ago, Heckled and herded through the fair days too. This barrel of a men penned in the frame: I see him with the jaunty hat pushed back Draw thumbs out of his waistcoat, curtly smack Hand and sell. Father, I’ve watch you do the same.
 

And watched you sadden, when the fairs were stopped. No room for dealers if the farmers shopped Like housewives at an auction ring. Your stick Was parked behind he door and stands there still. Closing this chapter of our chronicle I take your uncle’s portrait to the attic.
 

Seamus Heaney

Hats
March 11, 2006 - 10:03 am
Anna,

I love this poem too. A photograph points to the importance of family. Sometimes photographs remain long after family is gone. In some cases, both photographs and loved ones are gone. Whatever the case, we always carry these people in our hearts, knowing we are who we are because of their blood in us.

This is my favorite line.

There is a faded patch where he has been-
As if a bandage had been ripped from skin-
Empty plaque to a house’s rise and fall.


Thank you for this poem. I haven't seen it online or in my library books.

MarjV
March 11, 2006 - 10:57 am
Such an exquisite description of a real character filled with a special look and personality oozing out of the words..

It's also mourning ; an end to an era; a eulogy of sorts; perhaps a reqiem.
With the words telling us about the end of the fairs.
And then the empty space on the wall where the photo hung.

I hadn't read it as yet either.

MarjV
March 11, 2006 - 02:42 pm
COMMENTS BY RICHARD TILLINGHAST (ONLINE)
Not only is Heaney not a product of the Northern Ireland conflict,
his is a sensibility that seeks to assuage (one of his favorite
words) and to heal

In the short poem “Holly,” from Station Island (1984), while the experience rendered in the poem comes straight out of an Irish childhood, he doesn’t hesitate for a moment to marshall the full resources of English, both linguistic and cultural. It is one of many poems in which this poet struggles to reconcile the journey that has brought him from a farm in County Derry to his position as one of the most honored literary figures in the English-speaking world

The remembered scene couldn’t be homelier: a childhood Christmastime expedition in search of greenery to decorate the house, when “the ditches were swimming, we were wet/ to the knees, our hands were all jags// and water ran up our sleeves.” Fast-forward to adulthood

The poem is a lament for the intensity of childhood enthusiasms, even for childhood discomforts. The book he reaches for would be a substitute for those intensities

"HOLLY'

It rained when it should have snowed
When we went to gather holly


the ditches were swimming, we were wet
to the knees, our hands were all jags

and water ran up our sleeves/
There should have been berries

but the sprigs we brought into the house
gleamed like smashed bottle-glass.

Now here I am, in a room that is decked
with the red-berried, waxy-leafed stuff,

and I almost forget what it’s like
to be wet to the skin or longing for snow.

I reach for a book like a doubter
and want it to flare round my hand,

a black-letter bush, a glittering shield-wall
cutting as holly and ice

- - - - - -
I liked this Christmas memory poem. You can feel the
wet and the cold.

The comments prior to the poem were found in an essay on this
website: http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/14/dec95/heaney.htm

Jim in Jeff
March 11, 2006 - 06:39 pm
I'll comment working backwards, but will today skip some of the many worthwhile thoughts others have shared/posted here last week:

MarjV's #129 about SH's "Out of the Bag" invoked two of my own childhood "country-doctor" memories. Like SH's poem, mine are too long to post/share here just now.

Annafair's #126 about SH's "The Diviner." This folk-technique does work. Not witchcraft; no "special person's hand" needed. At a recent Elderhostel study-week in north-Florida, I and most others of my classmates were able to walk a forked twig over a (known) underground watersource, the twig pulling down with more force than we could exert to stop it. However, twigs less-recently cut would NOT do so. So I believe it's due to a tree's inherent natural attraction to water. Whatever...it's a definite STRONG pull.

Scrawlers' #119 about our various treasure boxes resembling her treehouse (of yesteryear, and in her life today). Well put, Ann! Made me today up and move my awhile-ago purchase of your book one notch higher up on my "next to read" list.

Annafair's #117 about SH's "Blackberry Picking." A boyhood memory for me too...growing up on a rural Ozarks hill-farm. Our "woods" had clearings suitable for blackberry bushes to return year after year...and they did. Birds shared our berries, and pooped them all over the woods...spreading the wealth elsewhere. Among my top-ten alltime memories today...my Grandmother's "blackberry cobbler."

Hats' #114 about SH's "Manifesting that order of poetry where we can at last grow up to that which we stored up as we grew."

I'll second Hats' EXTREMELY helpful paraphrase/explanation: "As adults we pull from our childhoods in order to master the adult world. We are like trains travelling back and forth on a journey from present to our past...and back again."

And like Hats' conclusion, I too today for some reason find a need to revisit some of the same books I'd read and loved as a child.

annafair
March 12, 2006 - 11:19 am
I had to look up the word Whin and found it is better known as gorse . here is the definitiion gorse

PRONUNCIATION: gôrs NOUN: Any of several spiny shrubs of the genus Ulex, especially U. europaeus, native to Europe and having fragrant yellow flowers and black pods. Also called furze, whin

Whinlands

All year round the whin Can show a blossom or two But it's in full bloom now, As if a small yolk stain


From all the birds' eggs in All the nests of the spring Were spiked and hung Everywhere on bushes to ripen.


Hills oxidize gold, Above the smoulder of green shoot And dress of dead thorns underfoot The blossoms scald.
Put a match under Whins, they go up of a sudden, They make no flame in the sun But a fierce heat tremor
Yet incineration like that Only takes the thorn, The singed sticks don't burn, Remain like bone, charred horn.
Gilt , jaggy,springly, frilled This stunted , dry richness- Persists on hills, near stone ditches, Over flintbed and battlefield.
Seamus Heaney

Scrawler
March 12, 2006 - 01:12 pm
Thanks Jim, I hope I didn't bump anybody important!

III:

When rains were gathering
there would be an all-night
roaring off the ford.
Their world-schooled ear

could monitor the usual
confabulations, the race
slabbering past the gable
the Moyala harping on

its gravel bed:
all spouts by daylight
brimmed with their own airs
and overflowed each barrel

in long tresses.
I cock my ear
at an absence -
in the shared calling of blood

arrives my need
for antediluvian lore.
Soft voices of the dead
are whispering by the shore

that I would question
(and for my children's sake)
about crops rotted, river mud
glazing the baked clay floor. (cont.)

~ Seamus Heaney

"When the rains were gathering..." this phrase reminds me of so many events in my life. The "rains were gathering" when I was a little girl in San Francisco and I watched the clouds gather over the Pacific Ocean from my bedroom window. And they were gathering the day I got married in October. And the "rains were gathering" when I buried my son - fourteen years ago today. And just last night the "rains were gathering" when I went out with my daughter and her husband to celebrate my daughters' birthday which will be on March 17th and my daughter and her husband's wedding anniversary on the 21st. It seems to me all our lives are in some way touched by nature and I think this is what Seamus Heaney is saying in this poem. The "rains gathering" is like the prelude to a musical piece that is about to be played out on the world stage!

Jim in Jeff
March 12, 2006 - 03:48 pm
Heaney's images of life do invoke past memories. A good revisit-activity for us. And now I've found a poem of his I like a lot:

Undine

He slashed the briars, shovelled up grey silk
To give me right-of-way in my own drains
And I ran quick for him, cleaned out my rust.

He halted, saw me finally disrobed,
Running clear, with apparent unconcern.
Then he walked by me. I rippled and I churned.

Where ditches intersected near the river
Until he dug a spade deep in my flank
And took me to him, I swallowed his trench

Gratefully, dispersing myself for love
Down in his roots, climbing his brassy grain--
But once he knew my welcome, I alone

Could give him subtle increase and reflection.
He explored me so completely, each limb
Lost its cold freedom. Human, warmed to him.

OK, it was too puzzling for me to like at first. I tried out its meaning ever-which-way...including having the speaker be his horse.

But now I think I've got it right. I looked up the definition of "undine": In Teutonic folklore, undines are female water-spirits who like to associate with humans. They often join villagers in their dances and merry-making.

Now somewhat more enlightened, I did enjoy Heaney's semi-bawdy(?) poem. It invokes one memory. This kid just entering puberty stumbled onto a 1950s B/W TV film-showing of Debussy's "Prelude in the Afternoon of a Faun," danced (in 1930s?) by the great male ballet dancer Nijinsky. Heaney, it seems, has harmones similar to mine.

I ought to sign off now using that old mneumonic, GD&R (Grinning, ducking & running). However, I'll just sign: Sincerely, Jim in Jeff.

MrsSherlock
March 12, 2006 - 03:51 pm
Scrawler, what a vivid illustration of what poetry really is, that echo, that evocation of emotion, expressing what we have merely felt before we saw the words on the page. I am deeply moved, and "the raims gathering" will always reside in my heart. Thank you for the gift of your memories.

Jim in Jeff
March 12, 2006 - 05:04 pm
Scrawler, your poetry book "A Century to Remember" is now my fourth next book-to-read, following "Websites for Dummies," "Christianity for Dummies," and "The American Sign-Language Starter." Plus my in-progress current read: "Cleansing and Preparing Game Fish." I hope to make time to do some quality fishing this year.

That "When the rains were gathering" phrase invokes a dozen memories for me too. I'll just sum them up for now as: "I love the rain."

MarjV
March 13, 2006 - 07:22 am
Gifts of Rain III:There he mentions the sounds of the Moyala river . Makes it a clear entity. And the waters slabber! Slabber is like slobber or drool according to the dictionary....never thought of a river slobbering or drooling. I also love rain. We are have tons of rain all night and this morning. I like it because living in a city area it takes a person right into nature and it's habits. As does much of Heaney's poetry for me.

That is a bawdy, Jim. I was just going to look up undine as I read the poem. I really did like it. And rereading it makes a rhythm of life.

Looking further: An undine was created without a soul, but by marrying a mortal and bearing him a child she obtained a soul and with it all the pains and penalties of the human race. She is the subject of the tale Undine (1811) by Friedrich de la Motte Fouqué. The word was invented by the medieval scholar Paracelsus.

There is a synopsis of the Undine tale halfway down this webpage:http://www.dur.ac.uk/c.e.schultze/works/undine.html

And:The name Undine was originally coined by Goethe to represent the element of water. - - - - And then I stopped. I have fun following things around.

Hats
March 13, 2006 - 11:20 am
I am enjoying all the poems and comments. This is another wonderful month.

MarjV
March 13, 2006 - 11:33 am
Comment on "Whinlands" #140

What a blast of color Heaney creatively writes in this poem. It's like "you are there". Walter Kronkite's 50s tv programs..

I just can't say enough about his description in that poem.

MarjV
March 13, 2006 - 11:44 am
Heaney's "Squarings".

"The sequence entitled "Squarings" first appeared in the volume Seeing Things, published in 1991. On the page the poems are squarish in shape, made up of twelve lines, in four three-line stanzas. Heaney's four tercets, Vendler writes, can buttress, quarrel, qualify, or build upon each other. They can be abstract, concrete, plain-spoken, rich in metaphor, static, full of movement, narrative, or meditative. The poems are organized into subdivisions of four dozens, named "Lightenings", "Settings", "Crossings", and "Squarings". Heaney takes the measure of things material for extrapolations into the immaterial realm." [from an online review'

This is xvii in the group. From the section 'Settings' I smiled at it. You can imagine a little boy thinking about all this; an adult might be wondering. I'm not sure I need to wear an eelskin; but a nature boy sure would. And quite frankly I have never thought about eelskins before. Heaney surely brings us into new "Settings". I like that.

xvii

What were the virtues of an eelskin? What
WAs the eel itself? A rib of water drawn
out of the water, an ell yielded up

From glooms and whirls and slatings,
Rediscovered once it had been skinned
When a wrist was bound with eelskin,energy


Redounded in that arm, a waterwheel
Turned in the shoulder, mill-races poured
And made your elbow giddy.

Your hand felt unconstrained and spirited
As heads and tails that wriggled in the mud
Aristotle supposed all eels were sprung from.

annafair
March 13, 2006 - 12:50 pm
All the poems shared here and looking through my books of poems by Heaney One problem I am having is decribing what a poem, a line or word means to me..Becasue sometimes I dont have word that speaks about why a poem moves me. It is almost like listening to a comcert. There are no words and yet I am moved by the music. Each note talks to me . makes me feel . touches me and long after I have left the concert hall the music lingers somewhere in my heart and soul and that is the way all poetry touches me and some like Heaney's makes me listen not his words but to his hearts music,

I will return with a poem for today but since undine was mentioned I am sharing one of mine.When I have nothing else to read I read a dictinary sometimes as a child a dictionary and a Bible were the only books in the house. And I had this urgent need to read, I read everything, cereal boxes, newspapers from front to back and the funnies last as I stiil do. It wasnt the comics I wanted to read but the words on the pages. I had a hunger for the written word anyway the year I wrote this poem I was reading the dictionary NOW at that time and now my home is full of books but that day I wanted something different and was looking up a word in the U's and there was this word UNDINE. I read it and the poem I am sharing came to me and I sat down and wrote it out Later I entered into a local Writer's Conference sponsored by our local univerisity where I ended up taking classes I took third place with this poem but years later the judge who was our state poet laureate once told me at our poetry society gathering that she loved that poem and used it often in her teaching..so I thought I would share it today SEE HATS DONT ENCOURAGE ME LOL anna

undine--in folk lore she is a water sprite who in order to gain a soul must mate with man and bear his child....

undine

you sylph , you water sprite, where radiant moon meets night reflected sun caught, sends softer rays hesitates in its flight . . . silvery fingers caress, illuminates, bathes you in phosphorescence . . . your arms lift high to welcome him weaving silver strands in your hair, sprinkles moon dust there, loosens your garment to fall upon the sand you pirouette to greet the ocean rushing in to claim its own dance a pas de trois, tease each in turn you run to meet the ocean waves, emerging ,the waters reluctant cling reveal you in silver splendor

come back across, the sand, take my hand, let me make you mortal this night.

anna alexander October 1996 all rights reserved

Hats
March 13, 2006 - 02:26 pm
Hi Anna,

Your poem is beautiful! I can feel the movement of water and loveliness in each line. It is a poem of motion and light and love. Thank you.

Hats
March 13, 2006 - 02:26 pm
I love the word "undine" too. I never knew it meaning until today.

MarjV
March 13, 2006 - 03:17 pm
What a super poem catching the essence of Undine. Thanks for posting it, Anna.

It is very difficult wanting to put a few scraps of reflection to Heaney's poems. So much I don't say since I don't have the words either- however, I think we've each shared a smidgen which is a bit of what is behind a whole ton of feelings and insights.

Plus, having to struggle a bit to express thoughts give much more meaning whether it be here or in a book discussion or some where in time.

Hats
March 14, 2006 - 03:58 am
Badgers by Seamus Heaney is a very long poem. Not all of it is understood by me. I have picked out two lines which touched my heart. I have this feeling about Seamus Heaney. His poetry is a two edged sword. While sharing his beautiful thoughts, sometimes incomprehensible thoughts, Seamus Heaney is also teaching me how to read a poem.

Badgers


How perilous is it to choose
not to love the life we're shown?


Seamus Heaney

Those two lines just made me stop and look straight ahead for a moment. Then, I had to take quick snapshots of my life. I could see days of complaining, groaning and grumbling. About what? Really, about nothing. Seamus Heaney made me think, with these two lines, that life is short. How sad if I were to get to the end of my life, on my deathbed and then, suddenly realize how many gifts I had missed. Missed because I was always looking into the future or back into the past and never appreciating the present. Just not appreciating the past, present or future.

Some people say just before we lose our lives, our life flashes before us. If that's true, I want to smile with contentment, not have my hands grasping for all that is gone and can not be gotten back again.

I would like to memorize these words. I wonder if any of you memorize poetry? I haven't done it since childhood.

This poem also reminded me of the fairytale about the miser. He loved gold so much. Finally, he turned his daughter to gold. I can't remember the story in detail. Maybe some of you remember that story.

annafair
March 14, 2006 - 05:07 am
I have a dental appointment in an hour But what you said was so true and it will be good if on our deathbed we have no regrets and I think you are talking about King Midas who wished that everything he touched would turn to gold and his litte daugther ran to hug him and she turned to gold ..It was then he realized that gold was not as precious as life and the beauty of the world as is .. will take my book with me and mark the poem I will post later unless I have to have this tooth extracted then perhaps tomorrow ..and yes there are poems I memorized and few lines from recent poems that stick in my mind. Those are exceptional lines Hats and like you I will rememember them too. anna

Hats
March 14, 2006 - 05:16 am
Hi Anna,

That is exactly the story I tried to tell. Thank you. I hope you won't need to have the tooth extracted. Take care.

w

MarjV
March 14, 2006 - 06:05 am
Those lines are great, Hats. Now I hope that poem is in one of the books I have. Thanks. I'll send myself an e-mail with those lines and hopefully memorize them.

It is difficult to live in the present!!!! Takes daily self reminders.

annafair
March 14, 2006 - 11:03 am
Well today I am here but cant count on Thurs etc since the dentist will extract my tooth And for some reason extract sounds so much better than PULL MY TOOTH Here is the poem I had in mind for today .. as a mother of two sons again this is a poem I can relate to My oldest son is 6'3" and weighs two hundred something When I look at him I find it impossible to believe he has grown this tall ..because when I look at him I SEE him small , running like the wind, his feet like feathers barely touching grass and and his small voice singing..anna

Mother of the groom

What she remembers Is his glistening back In the bath, his small boots In the ring of boots at her feet.

Hands in her voided lap, She hears a daughter welcomed. It’s as if he kicked when lifted And slipped her soapy hold.

Once soap would ease off The wedding ring That’s bedded forever now In her clapping hand.

Seamus Heaney

Hats
March 14, 2006 - 11:17 am
Anna,

That's a good one. No matter how old our children become, they are always our babies. I like the word "extraction" too.

Scrawler
March 14, 2006 - 01:04 pm
The tawny guttural water
spells itself: Moyola
is its own score and consort,

bedding the locale
in the utterance,
reed music, an old chanter

breathing its mists
through vowels and history.
A swollen river

a mating call of sound
rises to pleasure me, Dives,
hoarder of common ground.

~ Seamus Heaney

"A swollen river" and Jim's wish to do some fishing reminds of the times my husband and I used to fish on the American River in California. One time we arrived at our destination late in the afternoon and my husband drove our camper van as close to the river as he could get. Our kids loved being so close to the river - they literally could step out the back door of the camper van right "into" the river.

Well, along came an old codger who said:"Sonny, (my husband) you better drive that there 'amper (camper) back a'ways case the river rises." My husband smiled and waved and ignored him.

Well, sometime in the yearly morning hours I heard the back door of the camper open - than a spash - than my husband cursing! The river had risen alright and almost covered our camper. The next thing I noticed was the screeching of tires as my husband tried to get the camper to move forward. He adventually managed to move the camper up above the water line - but needless to say he was very, very wet when he climbed back into the camper. I could have said I told you so, but I didn't which was probably a good thing.

MarjV
March 14, 2006 - 01:28 pm
I have sure enjoyed that poem "Gifts of Rain".

Water is such a powerful "being".

Hats
March 14, 2006 - 03:04 pm
Scrawler,

I guess locals always know best.

MarjV, water is powerful. I am going to read this poem in its entirety. These are my favorite lines.

A swollen river


a mating call of sound
rises to pleasure me,


I have been to rivers and oceans. The sounds always stay with me.

Jim in Jeff
March 14, 2006 - 03:36 pm
But then, Scrawler, you'd earlier said you were city slickers, yes?

Your California rural area likely doesn't near the quaint mores of my growing-up country in mid-Missouri Ozarks. Here, a stranger comes through...it shows. They dress different, and treat the land (woods, fences, animals) with less respect than do us'ns who lived off'n hit.

Most allus tho, we'd treat a passing stranger (hunter, mushroom hunter) with decent respects...one time. After thet, theys on their own. One time advice like: Walk soft thru that field's corner over yonder...it's full of poison ivy. More'n ONE advisory tho, just weren't in our genes t' do.

One possible cause of that river's rising might be the regular daily activities at an electrical dam above it in the watershed. Here in mid-MO, we have similar effects BELOW our 1930's-built Bagnell Dam. It uses natural waterfallings for hydro-power, a free (except for upkeep) way to generate electrical power that serves much of mid-Missouri needs. But the dam's waterfall is regulated by a power-company's needs...resulting in rising/falling water in the "Lake of the Ozarks" portion lying BELOW the dam itself.

Back to Seamus Heaney, I too like his (and almost EVERY) poem about "rain." SH does make us meet him mentally...a bit more than do some other simpler poems by others. Which is...OK with me; it's one (of several) ways to enjoy poems in different ways.

Here's one thing I've learned from listening to SH read his poetry (links in this section's header):

- The great Irish poet Keats....is pronounced Keets.
- But the equally great Yeats...is pronounced Yates.

Live long, learn lots. And Seamus Heaney is pronounced Sha'-mus He'-ne. (Aye, lads and lassies...'tis th' truth, me thinks.)

Hats
March 14, 2006 - 03:42 pm
Jim in Jeff,

When I wrote my post, I was thinking about Lake of the Ozarks. We took our children there many years ago. I will never forget the beauty and peace of the river.

Thank you for the pronunciations too.

Jim in Jeff
March 14, 2006 - 04:09 pm
Ah! Then you knew right away that my Jim in Jeff handle meant Jefferson City (which locals call Jeff). It's my first 23-years hometown, and after 45 years astray/away, God willing and the creeks don't rise, is about to be my next 23-yrs hometown again too.

Yes, Lake of Ozarks (37 miles south of Jim in Jeff) is quite a phenom: recreation area, hydro-power source, etc. It was created in 1930s by damming up the Osage River. This did put rural settlers...under water. But what could a few poor hillbilly settlers do...fight City Hall? Today's buzzword for it would be "Eminent Domain," quite a political hot potato issue these days.

Below the Dam, Osage River does recollect and is still a substantial river before it dumps into Missouri River about 40 miles east of Jeff and 60 miles west of St Louis. You visited either the enormous Lake of Ozarks or the water-level-fluctuating Osage River below the dam.

I'm not sure there's large rivers in Seamus Heaney's Ireland. Must be some though. Where there's rain there's water-shed drain-offs.

MarjV
March 14, 2006 - 05:21 pm
Fun to read your reminiscing, Jim. Having grown up on a farm in Michigan I sure know about that "stranger" business. Our family was a stranger to that area since we didn't spring from the loins of locals. For years it was hard for my mother.

I wanted to post a poem but I keep having connectivity challenges all day today and I'm about out of patience. And I haven't read a poem of SH's on that topic. Maybe later.

Hats
March 15, 2006 - 04:33 am
MarjV,

I hope you won't face those same connectivity problems today.

MarjV
March 15, 2006 - 09:36 am
Today I choose the last section of the poem "Casualty". It is eulogiac (if that is a word)- and describes a man Heaney knew who was a man of the earth and couldn't comprehend a poet's life.

A loving description of the man. And a vivid picture of the funeral cortege and a fishing expedition. I encourage you to read the total poem. You can also hear it on the bio link above. Here is the specific link to the page: "Casualty"

III

I missed his funeral,
Those quiet walkers
And sideways talkers
Shoaling out of his lane
To the respectable
Purring of the hearse. . .
They move in equal pace
With the habitual
Slow consolation
Of a dawdling engine.
The line lifted, hand
Over fist, cold sunshine
On the water, the land
Banked under a fog: that morning
When he took mem in his boat,
The screw purling, turning
Indolent fathoms white,
I tasted freedom with him.
To get out early, haul
Steadily off the bottom,
Dispraise the catch, and smile
As you find a rhythm
Working you, slow mile by mile,
Into your proper haunt
Somewhere , well out, beyond. . .


Dawn-sniffing revenant,
Plodder through midnight rain,
Question me again.

- - - - -- -
And revenant means:: one that returns after death or a long absence

MarjV
March 15, 2006 - 09:57 am
Here is a link with numerous websites to visit; articles, more readings, etc.

Heamus Portal

Hats
March 15, 2006 - 11:51 am
MarjV,

Thank you!

Scrawler
March 15, 2006 - 12:43 pm
Hide in the hollow trunk
of the willow tree,
its listening familiar,
until, as usual, they
cuckoo your name
You can hear them
draw the poles of stiles,BR> as they approach
calling you out:
small mouth an ear
in a wood cleft,
lobe and larynx
of the mossy places

~ Seamus Heaney

Once again Heaney has brought up a childhood memory. I didn't hide in a hollow trunk, but up in the branches of trees. But when my mother "cuckoo[ed]" my name, especially when she used my first, middle, and last name; I knew enough to run home like the devil himself was after me. Otherwise I would lie in "mossy places" till the end of time.

Jim, I was the city slicker, but my husband was the "country boy" or so he said.

MarjV, I love that poem. You can feel so much emotion in it.

MarjV
March 15, 2006 - 02:38 pm
I just listened to Heaney's conversation with Dennis O'Driscoll from the Heaney Portal link I posted above. What absolute fun. That SH is so witty! and his voice so rich. I was sad when it ended I could listen to him on and on.

-------

Yes, I am quite loving the "Casualty" poem. I've read it over several times & listened to it. It is just so full of love for his people.

- - - - -

In "Oracle" I hear reminiscences of the Irish fairies and so forth that live in the mossy places.

annafair
March 15, 2006 - 09:34 pm
How my dental problems are resolved .. I have read the poems posted and find each one special .. we had a huge oak when we moved here 35 years ago that had a hollow large enough for a small person to hide in..as it grew the tree sort of turned in on itself and closed up I finally had to have it removed which made me so sad since it was an oak and the specialist said it was most likely over 100 years old.. That awed me . and still does when I look at the heighth of the trees in my yard and know how long they have survived.

If I dont post for a few days I will be recuperating..so keep posting and give me something to read when I return..I am truly pleased by your choices of Heaney's poems and your sharing of how they affect you ...and in addition your response to my "idea" to study one poet a month ,..I have to consider it one of my best ideas in a long time..and you are what have made it successful thanks . anna

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 02:08 am
Anna,

It is a wonderful idea!

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 02:54 am
The Swing

Fingertips just tipping you would send you Every bit as far--once you got going-- As a big push in the back.


Sooner or later, We all learned one by one to go sky high, Backward and forwar in the open shed, Toeing and rowing and jack-knifing through air.

Seamus Heaney

I love this poem. It made me think of "The Swing" by Robert Louis Stevenson. I have always loved "A Child's Garden of Verses." I think it was the first poetry book owned by me.

It's a magical feeling to play on a swing. A friend, it seems, at that moment, has the power to push you high enough to touch the sky. I did remember one time falling out of a swing. My fear overcame me. I didn't want to touch the sky. I wanted to touch the ground! My fear of heights overcame me. That fall didn't stop me I continued to fly on swings for a long time after that day, just not so high.

I hope it shows in this post. I love the way Seamus Heaney formatted this poem. The long indentation, to me, makes me feel the lift up of the swing.

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 03:28 am
The Swing

Fingertips just tipping you would send you Every bit as far--once you got going-- As a big push in the back. Sooner or later, We all learned one by one to go sky high, Backward and forwar in the open shed, Toeing and rowing and jack-knifing through air.

Seamus Heaney


I love this poem. It made me think of "The Swing" by Robert Louis Stevenson. I have always loved "A Child's Garden of Verses." I think it was the first poetry book owned by me. It's a magical feeling to play on a swing. A friend, it seems, at that moment, has the power to push you high enough to touch the sky. I did remember one time falling out of a swing. My fear overcame me. I didn't want to touch the sky. I wanted to touch the ground! My fear of heights overcame me. That fall didn't stop me I continued to fly on swings for a long time after that day, just not so high. I hope it shows in this post. I love the way Seamus Heaney formatted this poem. The long indentation

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 03:30 am
I am sorry. I tried to paste a poem. I have gotten the whole page out of line. I am sorry.

JoanK
March 16, 2006 - 03:36 am
HATS: if you used (pre) with <>, after the Seamus Heaney, try typing (/pre) but with <> to turn it off. When you write text after a poem without turning the Pre off, you get that wide screen. Does that make sense?

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 03:45 am
JoanK,

Wow! I sure needed some help! Right now you are like an angel. I wrote MarjV for help. Thanks for the answers. I will try again.

Yep, you make perfect sense.

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 03:52 am
The Swing

Fingertips just tipping you would send you
Every bit as far--once you got going--
As a big push in the back.
Sooner or later, We all learned one by one to go sky high,
Backward and forwar in the open shed,
Toeing and rowing and jack-knifing through air.


Seamus Heaney

I love this poem. It made me think of "The Swing" by Robert Louis Stevenson. I have always loved "A Child's Garden of Verses." I think it was the first poetry book owned by me. It's a magical feeling to play on a swing. A friend, it seems, at that moment, has the power to push you high enough to touch the sky. I did remember one time falling out of a swing. My fear overcame me. I didn't want to touch the sky. I wanted to touch the ground! My fear of heights overcame me. That fall didn't stop me I continued to fly on swings for a long time after that day, just not so high.

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 03:58 am
JoanK, I did it!! Thank you!! I am so tired. My fingers are tired. My brain is tired. I am going to bed.

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 04:17 am
I think theway the words sooner or later" are indented give the feeling that you are swaying up, up and away. Seamus Heaney is so creative!

JoanK
March 16, 2006 - 04:28 am
Me too. I love swings, too. But I don't love these nights when I can't sleep!!

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 04:30 am
Me either!! I automatically wake up at three o'clock. If I don't wake up, my cat jumps on the bed and wakes me up.

MarjV
March 16, 2006 - 06:13 am
Hats, great poem. And there's hardly a child who doesn't sooner or later get to experience that "high". I can't swing anymore- get too dizzy.

My connection was lousy last night so I didn't get to see any of my e-mail.

JoanK
March 16, 2006 - 06:47 am
A swing story: when I taught Marriage and Family, I asked the students to interview the oldest family member they could conveniently talk to, One student Freon China said that her grandmother had grown up in a walled house, and had never been allowed to leave. So she could never see the outside world. But she had a swing!! She found if she swung really, really high, the swing would go higher than the walls, and for a second, she would be able to see outside.

Marcie Schwarz
March 16, 2006 - 11:16 am
Hello, everyone. What a wonderful discussion!

May I remind you not to use the PRE coding in your posts. It makes the page margins run off to the right.

Use <br> at the end of each line. Use <p> at the end of the last line of a verse instead of <br> to have a double space between verses.

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 12:07 pm
Hi Marcie,

It happened to me last night. Sorry. I have written your instructions down.

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 01:48 pm
Continuation of "The Swing"

Not Fragonard, Nor Brueghel. It was more
Hans Memling's light of heaven off green grass,
Light over fields and hedges, the shed-mouth
Sunstruck and expectant, the bedding-straw
Piled to one side, like a Nativity
Foreground and background waiting for the figures.
And then, in the middle ground, the swing itself
With an old lopsided sack in the loop of it,
Perfectly still, hanging like pulley-slack,
A lure let down to tempt the soul to rise.


Seamus Heaney

swing

I know many of you are familiar with the Fragonard swing. It is set in such a lovely place with a very feminine lady swinging in it. This is not the type of swing Seamus Heaney is writing about. He is remembering the type of swing I remember. Not a fancy swing, just an old swing that a hundred children had swung in before I ever came to sit in it. The age and ugliness of the swing didn't matter. It was just the magic ability of the swing. The swing allowed me to feel that anything was possible. I could see the roofs of houses, get closer to the clouds and almost touch an airplane flying by. The swing was a magic carpet.

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 01:56 pm
I think Seamus Heaney could see some comparison between the spiritual world and the secular world while thinking of "The Swing." He wrote about the Nativity scene "waiting for the figures" and the light all around the area typifying bliss or perfection.

painting Hans Memling

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 02:09 pm
You know, I am having no success finding the Brueghel swing painting Seamus Heaney is mentioning in the painting. Can anyone help?

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 02:14 pm
JoanK or PatH,

Is there a Brueghel painting which involves a swing? I posted a poem in the "Poetry Corner." The poem mentions Brueghel. The poem, itself, is about a swing. I know both of you know about art.

Sorry to take up space here.

Hats
March 16, 2006 - 02:18 pm
I am just so curious about the Brueghel painting that is mentioned in the poem.

MarjV
March 16, 2006 - 02:40 pm
Thanks for posting the remainder of that poem, Hats. And what you had to say is lovely. I liked reading every bit of your thoughts.

And I sure do agree with this: "Not a fancy swing, just an old swing that a hundred children had swung in before I ever came to sit in it. The age and ugliness of the swing didn't matter. It was just the magic ability of the swing. The swing allowed me to feel that anything was possible. "

Did you mean to post #191 in another discussion?

I didn't find the B swing either.

I like how you brought out the comparison of the spiritual and secular.

Amazing how Heaney would use the comparison of the famous painters more ethereal scene with an earthy swing scene.

After listening to him in that conversation link you can just imagine him saying "aha! " as he penned that posey.

Jim in Jeff
March 16, 2006 - 07:17 pm
Hats, I too can't find any Brueghel painting titled "The Swing"; nor any of his many paintings that have a swing in it. Also, there's four different (related) Brueghel painters...two of them prolific. So is MANY Brueghel paintings that COULD have the swing Heaney cited.

I've lived in DC area 28 years, until lately. There, I soaked up dozens of "art appreciation" classes and weekly gallery visits. So I'll just say for now...any fan of Brueghel is...AOK!

Below links are to some other "THE SWING" paintings I've found, I hope some others here will also enjoy these...half as much as I do.

1. http://home.thirdage.com/Reading/jimva/brueghelchildren.jpg This is Brueghel's famous "Children's Games." I've eyeballed it a long while again today, and see kids playing ALL KINDS of games...except "swinging," darn it. It might be in there too somewhere tho.

2. http://home.thirdage.com/Reading/jimva/proverbs.jpg Another "busy activities" Brueghel painting. No swing in there that I can see...just lots of little visual icons representing various proverbs.

3. http://home.thirdage.com/Reading/jimva/swinggoya.jpg This is Francisco de Goya's well-regarded painting he titled, "The Swing."

And 3 more "The Swing" paintings...these by modern living artists:

4. http://home.thirdage.com/Reading/jimva/JulanFinSml.jpg This is an orient-version of a swing. I'm not sure of the artist, nor where I once saw it online and saved it.

5. http://home.thirdage.com/Reading/jimva/swingnikolette.jpg This is a 2004 painting that might be by Nikolette Kallen (or any reversal or version of those names). A neat one...can be bought online, I think.

6. http://home.thirdage.com/Reading/jimva/toucanart.jpg This is a modern piece too, also for sale on (to me) an unknown website by an unknown artist.

Hats (and all), you might enjoy also searching Google Images. Just go to Google, enter "brueghel paintings" (WITH the quotes) and, at the return, ignore all there and just click on IMAGES tab. This will return umpteen different Blueghel paintings, any of which one can then click on, to see an option to enlarge it a bit, if possible.

Another interesting Google search might be: "the swing" paintings (again WITH the quotes). This returns paintings by many artists who have done a painting they've titled "The Swing."

Hats
March 17, 2006 - 01:32 am
Hi MarjV and Jim in Jeff,

Yes, I did post over in the other discussion looking for PatH and JoanK. I know both have a lot of knowledge about art. I didn't know Jim in Jeff knew so much about art. Wow!!

Jim in Jeff,

Thank you. I never knew what to do with that IMAGE button. Now I will use it. I guess it wouldn't bite me to try some of those buttons. Thank you so much for all the links. I will certainly enjoy looking at each one. Thank you for putting in so much time. I will bookmark or print your page off. It's a wealth of information.

Hats
March 17, 2006 - 01:37 am
MarjV,

There is more to "The Swing" poem. It's another long and wonderful poem by Seamus Heaney.

annafair
March 17, 2006 - 02:20 am
And thank Jim for those GREAT links I spent at least 5 minutes on the one with all the playing activity. There was so much in that painting ,. leap frog, marbles ? rolling a hoop etc I thought prehaps there was a swing and we just hadnt pinpointed it ..I have read all the posts but dont feel too pure and have no poem to share today ...Our see saw weather doesnt help either .. but talking about swings certainly takes me back We had a grapearbor in our backyard and my father erected a rope swing on both of the ends and then we had porch swings on both our front and back porches, and an aunt and uncle had the wooden yard swings Cant remember what they were called but they had facing seating and you could stand up and get it going , Oh my that was fun, I think one reason Heaney's poems resonates with me is because while I am a bit older we grew up in a time when children played simple games and used what they had to play and enjoy. It was a time when our imaginations were all we needed to have fun. As I see my grandchildren carry their pocket computer games with them and sit and play by themselves I see them even with their brothers and sisters not really interacting,.They have so many choices that I feel they are overwhelmed and wonder What will their memories be when they are my age? Playing games when I was young meant socializing, learning to get along with other children and adults It was a time of richness I dont see young people having now. Almost any parent could afford roller skates that clamped on your shoes , in fact I have my husbands ice skates that did the same. I am offended by the cost of toys that are in the stores. And ads on TV that make children want something they really dont enjoy when they get it because there is always something new they beg for. Sorry I didnt mean to go into a tirade about this When I am feeling better ( my head aches right now and Heaney deserves more than I can give today) Thanks to all of you who are posting and making this discussion not only worthwhile but very special ..anna

Hats
March 17, 2006 - 02:37 am
Anna,

You have made so many good points in one post. We did use our imaginations as children. We played at having tea parties, played house, made pretend with whatever our hands could reach out and touch. We also played with one another. Candyland, Monopoly, Uncle Wiggley made us laugh together and learn not to cheat.

And games today are terribly expensive. Toys are $60.00 and up into a hundred dollars or more. It's just terrible. The simpler times are gone.

Jim in Jeff, Brueghel's paintings are full of village people. I tried very hard to see a swing. I didn't see a swing either. I did enjoy his paintings. His paintings make me want to call all the neighbors out of there houses for time together.

There are so many swing paintings. I didn't realize it.

annafair
March 17, 2006 - 09:18 am
most likely for several days Depends on how I recover ..this is only part of a poem as it is long and I will post the rest as soon as I can, I loved it for lots of reasons,. mostly because while my brothers and I never pretended the sofa was a train we did set the dining chairs in a line and pretend they were seats on a train, And mother would let us cover the dining table with a sheet and make believe it was an Indian tent or an igloo or just a special place to tell ghost stories or when my girl friends came in later years a private place where my two younger brothers were not admitted. Sometimes we put the chairs in a line and covered tham with sheets and make a tunnel where we would scare ourselves. NOW that was imagination! anna

A Sofa in The Forties


All of us on the sofa in a line, kneeling
Behind each other, eldest down to youngest,
Elbows going like pistons, for this was a train.



And between the jamb-wall and bedroom door
Our speed and distance were inestimable
First we shunted , the we whistled, then



Somebody collected the invisible
For tickets and very gravely punched it
At carriage after carriage under us



Moved faster, chooka-chook , the sofa legs
Went giddy and the unreachable ones
Far out on the kitchen floor began to wave



Ghost-train ? Death -gondola? The carved, curled ends
Black leatherette and ornate gauntness of it
Made it seemed the sofa had achieved



Floatation. Its castors on tiptoe,
Its braid and fluent backboard gave it airs
Of superannuated pageantry :



When visitors endured it , straight- backed,
When it stood off on its own remoteness,
When the insufficient toys appeared on it



On Christmas mornings , it held out as itself,
Potentially heaven bound , earthbound for sure,
Among things that might add up or let you down.



Seamus Heaney .

Hats
March 17, 2006 - 11:07 am
Anna,

What a find!! This is one I have not seen by Seamus Heaney. I love the "chooka-chook" sound. It's very familiar.

MarjV
March 17, 2006 - 12:38 pm
I agree. What a find, Anna! At first I thought it was one of your personal poems.

Speaking of playing with sheets and tables - I put a sheet over a table for my kittys to play in and around.

Now that my connectivity might be stable I can think about posting a poem.

annafair
March 17, 2006 - 02:33 pm
I am sitting here with a mouthful of gauze but the teeth are gone and wasnt as bad as I expected and later tonight I will finish typing and sharing Heaney's poem AND I CANT BELIEVE YOU THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE ONE OF MINE!! GOOD GRAVEY this man is a Pulitzer Prize winner anyway here is mine I am sharing .As I say I dont write poems but they just pop in my head and I pay attention and write them out ...I cant believe I feel this good I had anticipated it being hurtful at least. WOW anna

My Dentures



My teeth are gone ,
The ones that came with my birth
The first ones that left were attached
To a piece of string

In the mirror my mother handed me
I watched its wiggly dance
A ballet in slow motion
Directed by me.

Soon it fell exhausted in my hand
To be placed beneath my pillow
For the tooth fairy to
Pay me a dime in exchange for

The small pearl that once was mine
Somewhere there is a photo
Taken on Easter morn
Me in an organdy dress

My face alight with
A toothless grin.
Now the time has come
When age and medicine

Took a toll and in a little while
The last four of mine will go
Removed and in another day or so
New ones will replace these ancient ones

And put a smile back on my face
True they are not what I had before
At night they will have their resting place
In a glass on the bathroom shelf

But in the next picture taken of me
They will peer from between my lips
In a grateful smile …!


anna Alexander ©March 17, 2006

annafair
March 17, 2006 - 03:02 pm
I just loved so many lines in here and couldnt wait to share them with you. anna



We entered history and ignorance
Under the wireless shelf Yippee-I-ay,
Sang “The Riders of the Range”. HERE IS THE NEWS:


Said the absolute speaker. Between him and us
A great gulf was fixed where pronunciation
Reigned tyrannically. The aerial wire


Swept from a treetop down through a hole
Bored into the window frame. When it moved in wind,
The sway of language and its furthering


Swept and swayed in us like nets in water
Or the abstract , lonely curve of distant trains
As entered history and ignorance.


We occupied our seats with all our might,
Fit for the uncomfortable ness,
Constancy was its own reward already.


Out in front, on the big upholstered arm,
Somebody craned to the side, driver or
Fireman, wiping his dry brow with the air


Of one who had run the gauntlet. We were
The last thing on his mind, it seemed; we sensed
A tunnel coming up where we’d pour through


Like unlit carriages through the fields at night,
Our only job to sit, eyes straight ahead ,
And be transported and make engine noise.


Seamus Heaney

MarjV
March 17, 2006 - 07:32 pm
I feel so disconnected with my dsl problems. For a few minutes I'm able to be online. Maybe this weekend they will put up a new phone line and I'll be back in business.

"And make engine noise". That was just a great poem!

Hats
March 18, 2006 - 01:34 am
Anna,

Another goodie! "Ballet in slow motion." I remember that dance so well. My mother or father would put a coin under my pillow. They told me the tooth fairy had placed it there.

I can't imagine how these words just pop in your head.

Still reading the Seamus Heaney one.

Louie1026
March 18, 2006 - 06:52 am
She came Tickling my nose Whisperered in my ear Pulled my earing Till it jingled Told me a funny story A bit risgue Made me blush Turned red like a beet Boiled of course But I politely listened Promised to write it All down Even all around But she giggled Wiggled Jumped up and down Dared me if I would Double dared me if I should Having such a good time I forgot it Poooof It went

Being a senior poet Is a trial

Louie

MarjV
March 18, 2006 - 08:40 am
I have temporary internet access so I am taking advantage.

"Two Stick Drawings" from The Spirit Level c.1996

I just marvel as H's images he captured in this 2 verse poem.

Verse 1

Claire O'Reilly used her granny's stick -
A crook-necked one - to snare the highest briars
That always grew the ripest blackberries.
When it came to gathering, Persephone
Was in the halfpenny place compared to Claire.
She'd trespass and climb gates and walk the railway
Where sootflakes blew into convolvulus
And the train tore past with the stoker yelling
Like a balked king from his iron chariot.

- - - - -

Can't you just transport yourself right into that scene!
A marvel of description. Here is this young girl
who has created a way to get what she wants come what may;
obviously not disturbed one bit by the stoker's shouts
at her.

It could be a ballad I am now thinking. Sort of singing it to myself.

-to be continued

JoanK
March 18, 2006 - 01:05 pm
Young girl!! She has a granny's stick!! She must be a senior like me!

So many riches here, I don't know what to respond to first.

HATS: you shame me. I know nothing about art. Pat knows more than I do. Like Jim, I have lived in the DC area most of my life (where did you live, Jim?). But I have never taken a course in art appreciation. When I worked downtown, I would go to some of the wonderful galleries we have sometimes, but since I've been retired, never.

Have you brought the question to Rembrandt's Eyes?

I did have a jigsaw puzzle of "Children's Games". It's wonderful to work as a jigsaw, because you have to pay attention to each of the little figures.

ANNA: be very careful not to get "dry socket". This happens when you get too enthusiastic about rinsing out your mouth, and lose the clot that is forming over your tooth. It happened to me several times, and is very painful. When you rinse out your mouth, just let the liquid sit there, don't swish!!

Some of my strongest children's memories are of swings! And of pretending. SH really brings childhood memories alive.

MarjV
March 18, 2006 - 04:21 pm
Claire had a stick that was her granny's stick. --- the apostrophe there is why I said it was a young girl. Otherwise I presume it would have said "Claire used her granny stick"..

Jim in Jeff
March 18, 2006 - 05:13 pm
MarjV - WOW! What a difference, does one simple apostrophe make in meanings!

Louie - Welcome back, forum friend! Haven't heard from you here since December. I worried. A belated "Happy Holidays" to you, Louie.

Fair Anna - Have I told you lately: "Your gums are beautiful" to your many forum friends? Keep smiling. This time next year, you'll be hard-pressed to remember today's intense miseries.

JoanK - Thanks for your "DC-connection" memories. I lived in Falls Church, a Virginia residential suburb within DC beltway. For more about me if you wish, just click on my name for a brief "SN profile" and a link to my 2-page website.

Re: Seamus Heaney:. The more of his poems I'm a-reading this month, the less I'm a-liking him. Too erudite...and too provincial. Sorry.

My tastes run more toward such as Hank Williams (a 1950s C/W singer/songwriter). And to Annafair's off-the-cuff quality thoughts.

annafair
March 18, 2006 - 06:51 pm
For the advice I just started rinsing this afternoon and I appreciate the warning I wondered how one got a dry socket so I will now allow the salted water to just LAY there,. NO MORE SWISHING

I feel remarkably well My head has finally stopped aching ..I once fell out of a pickup I was trying to enter ( I am only 5'and have to PULL Myself up into these high conveyances and while I had one foot in the truck the other one slipped off the very narrow poor excuse for a running board and I ended up face down on the asphalt) I hit my head on the pavement and of course had one terrific headache and this wasnt that bad today but if did feel as if the doctor had hit me over the head instead of just extracting teeth.

Jim I understand your feeling that Heaney is almost too erudite and I lived in Nashville for 12 years and loved all the country western music , still do and the Ryman Auditorium was a favorite place to go,. The new more modern one is good too but I loved that old place so well. Still for someone whose favorite book since childhood was the dictionary I sort of wallow in the erudite form Heaney uses. I feel perhaps he too loved the dictionary. When I write poetry my mind absolutely jumps with joy when a special word flows from my fingertips to the monitors screen. I use them not to show how erudite I am but to wallow in the beauty of language,.

AND LOUIE we are SO GLAD YOU ARE HERE ..Louie and I go WAY back ..ten years at least ,,,We have never met except here on the internet but he is a great poet and I have always enjoyed HIS WAY WITH WORDS SO dont be a stranger Louie And I know you feel IRISH poets are TOO much but this place will always welcome your poems and the poems of others as well regardless if we are honoring one single poet each month.

As I sipped my soup thanks to a blender this evening I wonder how people from years ago coped with getting an adequate diet when they lost their teeth? And history says George Washington had wooden teeth ..at least mine will look like teeth and since everyone is into whitening their teeth and look like they have mouths full of chiclets I will be right in style...LOL God Bless Everyone ..anna

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 02:27 am
JoanK,

Don't worry about it! Jim in Jeff gave a wonderful answer with links. In the past,he was heavily involved in Art Appreciation classes.

I am just popping in. I haven't read all the posts. Anna, it's time for me to get my books back to the library by the weekend. I am now putting new books on hold. Do you have any idea who the "Poet of the Month" is for April? Did you mention Mary Oliver? I might have misread something.

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 02:36 am
Thank you again for my poem and all the art information about Brueghel and swings.

I have a question for Anna. Is it alright for us to post whether we dislike a poet during a discussion? After all, we are not going to like every poet. Should we strive to find the best in the poet?

Seamus Heaney, I admit, was far more difficult for me. It helped when the other posters broke his meaning down for me. In the end, I gained joy from their comments and also understanding.

MarjV, I very much enjoyed hearing his voice reading the poems. I really enjoyed his voice reading a lot. It just added something to the poems.

Anna, your poems are delightful and just added to the month of March. Do any of our inhouse poets have any Saint Patrick's Day poems? Did Seamus Heaney write any about Saint Patrick's Day?

annafair
March 19, 2006 - 05:27 am
Every poem a poet writes isnt going to appeal to everyone and perhaps some to no one. Some of my own poems I feel are truly worthwhile poems but most are just my thoughts that demanded I write them out. Sometimes I do that in short stories are essays but my mind seems to prefer poems. I suspect any poet including Heaney knows all of thier poems are not great.. but they cant help writing. I know I cant ,.It is an addiction and one that has no cure.

Mary Oliver was my thought for April and let us say it is she so we can read her poems on line and check out books if needed. My first poetry class at the local university suggested we buy one of her books as a good example. Everyone be thinking of what poet we will do in MAY please. We have done two males in succession and so we can do two females in succession as well.

And sometimes there are ONLY parts of a poem I like ..and wonder why in the world the poet wrote all of those verses. Sometimes just line. Heaney's poetry as it should writes about places and events that are outside out knowledge,. Every poet can only write from thier expierences, from thier imagination ..AND every reader has to decide DOES THIS RELATE TO ME ? One of you even mentioned that sometimes only one line will mean something to you.

To study a poem or a book etc doesnt mean we have to agree or love each word. By all means we should say what we feel, good, bad, or indifferent,. Hats as you said when others pointed out what they thought it gave you a better understanding.And if someone points out and says I dont agree , or this line is for the birds that helps too.

I cant believe I am feeling so good. I feel a bit tired but I think that is natural ...smiles across the miles to everyone ,.anna

MarjV
March 19, 2006 - 06:00 am
I totally skip over the poems of Heaney that don't touch me or that are too erudite or beyond my understanding. I read/skim til I find one that feels right to post and that has something in it I enjoy; that has a line or section speaking to me..

For instance, the one I posted Saturday- that was just right in its images to appeal to me. Mmmmmm- a creative female and ripe blackberries

Anna: glad you are doing so well from the extractions!

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 08:21 am
MarjV, I agree with you.

Anna, I am glad you are feeling well. I am so happy about Mary Oliver. I have wanted to read more of her poems. I met her first here at Poetry Corner.

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 08:42 am
Claire O'Reilly used her granny's stick -
A crook-necked one - to snare the highest briars
That always grew the ripest blackberries.


MarjV posted this poem. There are more lines. These are the lines which spoke to me. I can see this lady reaching up with her not fancy cane and grabbing for the ripest blackberries.

My mother could spend hours at the Farmer's Market or just a plain supermarket feeling for the freshest melon, cantaloupe or any other produce. You would have thought she was spending time in a high priced jewelry store, the produce being the jewelry.

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 08:45 am
I also remember a friend loaning my husband a cane. My husband had broken his leg. The cane was handcrafted. The friend wanted it back because it held special memories for him.

I have seen sticks carved into canes. They have a unique beauty. Anna, have you ever felt the urge or had the Muse to tell you to write about a cane? How about you Jim in Jeff?

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 09:53 am
This stick does not belong to Claire O'Reilly. It belongs to Catherine Ann.

A Hazel Stick for Catherine Ann

The living mother-of-pearl of a salmon
just out of the water

is gone just like that, but your stick
is kept salmon-silver.

Seasoned and bendy,
it convinces the hand

that what you have you hold
to play with and pose with

and lay about with.
But then too it points back to cattle

and spatter and beating
the bars of a gate--

the very stick we might cut
from your family tree.

The living cobalt of an afternoon
dragonfly drew my eye to it first

and the evening I trimmed it for you
you saw your first glow-worm--

all of us stood round in silence, even you
gigantic enough to darken the sky

for a glow-worm.
And when I poked open the grass

a tiny brightening den lit the eye
in the blunt cut end of your stick.



Seamus Heaney

Are glow-worms lightening bugs? I remember catching lightening bugs on long summer nights. We would put the lightening bugs in jars with a little grass at the bottom. Then, watch the lightening bugs twinkle their yellow light.

I also remember dragonflies landing on my father's fishing pole. A dragonfly landing on your pole meant you would have luck that day.

annafair
March 19, 2006 - 10:47 am
Hat here is what I found the larvae of the firefly or lighting bugs are called glow worms and can be found in the grass in early spring.So I would suspect some call the grown larvae glow worms as well Then there is another one of this species which do not fly and are also called glow worms All of them are beetles now your question reminded me of a song by Ray Charles and I am posting it as well OH MY we learn SO much here in Poetry LOL anna PS I have written poems about fireflies and dragon flies love them both

Shine little glow-worm, glimmer, glimmer.
Shine little glow-worm, glimmer, glimmer.
Lead us lest too far we wander
. Love's sweet voice is calling yonder.
Shine little glow-worm, glimmer, glimmer.
Hey, there don't get dimmer, dimmer.
Light the path below, above.
And lead us on to love!



Glow little glow-worm, fly of fire.
Glow like an incandescent wire.
Glow for the female of the species.
Turn on the AC and the DC.
This night could use a little brightnin'.
Light up you little ol' bug of lightnin'
. When you gotta glow, you gotta glow.



Glow little glow-worm, glow.
Glow little glow-worm, glow and glimmer.
Swim through the sea of night, little swimmer.
Thou aeronautical boll weevil.
Illuminate yon woods primeval.
See how the shadows deepen, darken.
You and your chick should get to sparkin'.
I got a gal that I love so.



Glow little glow-worm, glow.
Glow little glow-worm, turn the key on.
You are equipped with taillight neon.
You got a cute vest-pocket mazda.
Which you can make both slow and faster.
I don't know who you took a shine to.
Or who you're out to make a sign to.
I got a gal that I love so.
Glow little glow-worm, glow.

RAY CHARLES - "Glow Worm" lyrics

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 11:20 am
Anna,

I remember that song. I love it. I loved Ray Charles too.

MarjV
March 19, 2006 - 11:53 am
Go to this page and scroll down to "Glowworm" and you get the music.

http://www.smickandsmodoo.com/stardust/stardust.shtml

Oh Hats~~~ You found another stick poem.
Great because it refers to the neat glow-worms .
Tho I've only seen fireflies.

These lines stand out for me-


the very stick we might cut 
from your family tree.
 

The living cobalt of an afternoon 
dragonfly drew my eye to it first
 

and the evening I trimmed it for you 
you saw your first glow-worm
 

- - - - -- -

What a loving picture it makes. If you have ever seen a dragongly
of the blue type in the sun you will know exactly what
it refers to.And just think- the stick was cut from the family tree
which leads me to think it was a family tradition.

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 11:59 am
MarjV, we love the same lines. Thanks for the lyrics. I wonder if there are more stick poems by Seamus Heaney?

MarjV
March 19, 2006 - 12:04 pm
"Two Stick Drawings" continued

Here we have more stick poetry in the part II.


With its drovoer's canes and blackthorns and ashplants,
The leddge of the back seat of my father's car
Had turned into a kind of stick-shop window,
But the only one who ever window-shopped
Was Jim of the hangingjaw, for Jim was simple
And rain or shine he'd make his desperate rounds
From windscreen to back window, hands held up
To both sides of his face, peering and groaning.
So every now and then the sticks would be
Brought out for him and stood up one by one
Against the front mudguard; and one by one
Jim would take the measure of them, sight
and wield and slice and poke and parry
The unhindering air, until he found
The true extension of himself in one
That made him jubilant. He'd run and crow,
Stooped forward, with his right elbow stuck out
And the stick held horizontal to the ground,
Angled across in front of him, as if
He were leashed to it and it drew him on
Like a harness rod of the inexorable.

- - - - - -


Isn't that a remarkable sketch of Jim! Even tho a simple fellow,
Jim's sketch is true and vivid and full of caring.

I like the line about the stick being "a true extension of himself".
I wonder if that is the same sensation children get when playing with sticks.

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 12:05 pm
Oh, goodie!

Hats
March 19, 2006 - 12:07 pm
MarjV,

That's a great one. I can see the sticks in the back seat of the car. I like Jim of the Hangingjaw too.

JoanK
March 19, 2006 - 07:59 pm
I had a friend who loved Irish dancing. One St. Patrick's Day, she took me to an Irish dance. When you entered, you had to put your name in a hat, and they had a drawing. The prize was a blackthorn walking stick. It was beautiful, but I didn't win it. But it was cut for a man -- it would have been much too tall for me. I gathered that walking sticks were part of tradition, like the "North Kerry set" that everyone else knew by heart and the soda bread we ate.

Jim in Jeff
March 19, 2006 - 08:00 pm
This was a top-ten song in my early highschool years. Here's a link to its lyrics AND to its SOUND (click on the sound-icon there):

http://www.duchessathome.com/childrensongs/glowworm.html

I'd always thought late great Johnny Mercer wrote this song, But a Ray Charles' cover would be similar lyrics...uniquely sung by him.

JoanK
March 19, 2006 - 08:01 pm
How easily it lights up, 
How easily it goes out - 
The firefly
 

Chora

Jim in Jeff
March 19, 2006 - 08:42 pm
These seem to me to be fading, almost lost, traditions. If so, how sad!

When I was growing up in Ozarks hills, ALL dignified gentlemen in our rural area...wouldn't be seen without their walking stick.

It was style, but also functional. It helped to walk over (almost always) uneven terrain; and it could whack the occasional snake or spider-web in one's way. I truly never ever saw my Great Grandfather (a pioneer from NC to MO) without his walking stick. Never!

Some sticks were quite ornate artworks. My family was poor, so ours were made crudely, on the spot. As a kid, I had one. Mine had to have a handle-hook to help pull me up rough terrain as I did my often-chore of walking the woods mending our farm's perimeter fences.

Currently, my International walking club "VOLKSMARCH" (a German word meaning "people's walks) promotes "walking sticks" for us walkers. These stick do help us perform some of the tougher 10K (6.2-mile) walks we regularly do for earning our club-walk credits.

Hats
March 20, 2006 - 01:50 am
Jim in Jeff thank you for the lyrics to the song.

I remember an Antique Roadshow on tv years ago. Someone wanted their walking sticks appraised. The beauty was indescribable. These particular walking sticks had been carved by a man during the days of slavery in America. The man was the person's long loved relative.

I love all the stories here about walking sticks inspired by Seamus Heaney's poetry. It's so wonderful the places we can wander after reading a poem. A poem takes the mind far and wide.

One walking stick was used in so many different ways. The walking stick became a part of the person. I think Seamus Heaney mentioned this in his poem.

MarjV
March 20, 2006 - 09:28 am
I also like how we can veer our minds and imaginations from poem thoughts. And I did enjoy the stories. Thanks.

I use a walking stick around here but it is a plastic pole one to ward off dogs - so many people allow their dogs free even tho it is against city ordinance. I'd love to have a nice one.

Scrawler
March 20, 2006 - 11:32 am
I remember my grandfather had a walking stick. He'd look at that stick and say: "Did I ever tell you about..." As if by magic he'd tell a tale of his childhood or other such stories. When I was little I really thought he saw those "tales" in his walking stick, but try as I may I never could find them. He'd just smile and this poem reminds me of his "smile."

The Errand:

'On you go now! Run, son, like the devil
And tell your mother to try
To find me a bubble for the spirit level
And a new knot for this tie.'

But still he was glad, I know, when I stood my ground,
Putting it up to him
With a smile that trumped his smile and his fool's errand,
Waiting for the next move in the game.

~ Seamus Heaney

Does anyone know what "bubble for the spirit level" means?

MarjV
March 20, 2006 - 11:37 am
"A spirit level is a carpenter’s tool first used in the 1700s that contains a vial of liquid with a bubble in the middle, used to ensure that an object is balanced and level. This title rings true to the subject matter of much of the collection of poems: how people go about finding or trying to find balance in their lives, especially balance between private thoughts and actions and the greater world around us. Such a balance is often hard to strike, and Heaney examines many of these difficulties through his imagery-filled poetry. Balancing these many contrasting notions leads to endings and new beginnings, another theme carried throughout the poems"

- - - - --

That poem was originally published in his volume titled "Spirit Level"
Great minds! I've read it over several times and was going
to post it soon
Love the sense of humor depicted from the father to the son
and the delight of the son knowing.

Hats
March 20, 2006 - 12:08 pm
Scrawler and MarjV,

I enjoyed both your posts about the poem. Thank you.

JoanK
March 20, 2006 - 04:54 pm
Once you see something, you keep running into it. I just read in "Founding Mothers" that when Ben Franklin died, he left his walking stick, lovingly described, to George Washington, saying that if it were a sceptre, Washington would grace it. Obviously, walking sticks became very personal..

MarjV
March 20, 2006 - 07:06 pm
I've been thinking about this and how I'd like a really neat looking one since the stick poems. Some craggy looking.

Hats
March 21, 2006 - 03:07 am
JoanK,

I missed that part. Thank you for repeating it. I am going back and find it. Could you tell me the page number? It would make it easier on my walking fingers.

Hats
March 21, 2006 - 03:07 am
MarjV,

Yes, craggy looking. If you find one, let us know. You must describe it to us.

Hats
March 21, 2006 - 05:51 am
JoanK,

I have found it. I just at not read that far. Thank you for mentioning it.

"My fine crab-tree walking stick."

MarjV
March 21, 2006 - 12:10 pm
BBC Heaney interviews

I could only get a couple to work.

MarjV
March 21, 2006 - 12:19 pm
Here is a picture of the walking stick Ben F bequeathed to George in his will

Ben's walking stick

Scrawler
March 21, 2006 - 12:40 pm
Speaking of "walking sticks", I noticed in my catalogs that they are making a comeback - not so much for medical purposes, but for elegance and glamour. I've seen some fine "walking sticks" but they have some "hefty price tags" to go with them. I saw one made in Ireland that was carved from a "special" wood.

Anahorish:

My 'place of clear water',
the first hill in the world
where springs washed into
the shiny grass

and darkened cobbles
in the bed of the lane.
"Anahorish," soft gradient
of consonant, vowel-meadow,

after-image of lamps
swung through the yards
on winter evenings.
With pails and barrows

those mound-dwellers
go waist-deep in mist
to break the light ice
as wells and dunghills

~Seamus Heaney

I liked this poem not only for its imagery, but also for its language - "of constant, vowel-meadow" makes you not only see what Heaney was trying to say, but also hear the words as if they are ringing from the page.

While travelling through New Mexico, we came across some Indian sites and our guide told us that the Indians who lived in the area were called "mound-dwellers" but for some unexplainable reason they just disappeared and only a few pieces of broken pottery was all that was left of them - it really makes me see the Indians - "go waist deep in mist" - and than vanish!

MarjV
March 21, 2006 - 01:19 pm
I offer "Bogland" today. It has not been posted as a reading that I could tell by "search".. It is read by SH in the bio; here is the direct link to it with voice and printed word.

"Bogland" read by S Heaney

Also- it is the first one read & heard on this webpage; sounds like a much earlier reading. Bogland read aloud

Listening to it really brought the bogland atmosphere home to me. Made more sense hearing and reading it together than just the read.

"This poem was written in the 1960s and concerns the 'bog', one of the few words in the English language to come from Gaelic"

JoanK
March 21, 2006 - 10:57 pm
Thank you for the links. It's great to hear him read the poems. I have to admit, when I hear Irish people speak, it is music to me.

How great to see Ben's walking stick. I hope you post the picture in "Founding Mothers". I wonder if women too had their favorite sticks.

Hats
March 22, 2006 - 06:12 am
MarjV,

I am very much enjoying the interview with Seamus Heaney. I am listening now. Thank you. Thank you for the other links too.

Scrawler
March 22, 2006 - 10:59 am
Riverbank, the long rigs
ending in broad docken
and a canopied pad
down to the ford.

The garden mould
buruised easily, the shower
gathering in your heelmark
was the blank O

in "Broagh,"
its low tattoo
among the windy boortrees
and rhubarb-blades

ended almost
suddenly, like the last
"gh" the strangers found
difficult to manage

~ Seamus Heaney

What a wonderful "sounding" poem. Can't you just feel the words rolling off your tongue and I agree with Joan there's something about the Irish language that makes you "tingle" inside the same way you feel when you hear an Irishman laugh or sing.

MarjV
March 22, 2006 - 02:07 pm
Trying to say "brough" was fun. At least trying after listening to Heaney read poems I sort of had a feel for the sound. The poem rolls along as well as the word.s

MarjV
March 22, 2006 - 02:21 pm
Here's what a section of what the NYT had to say about this volume:

"Seeing Things," Seamus Heaney's new collection of poems, is a book of thresholds and crossings, of losses balanced by marvels, of casting and gathering and the hushed, contrary air between water and sky, earth and heaven. "Where does spirit live? Inside or outside / Things remembered, made things, things unmade?" the poet asks. These questions are given special urgency by the death of his father, whose memory hovers over the volume. As he tries to hold this and other spirits in place he finds himself caught between realms. The title, "Seeing Things," refers both to the solid, fluctuating world of objects and to a haunted, hallucinatory realm of the imagination

This excerpt is from the 3rd section of the poem titled "Seeing Things"

III

Once upon a time my undrowned father
Walked into our yard. He had gone to spray
Potatoes in a field on the riverbank
And wouldn't bring me with him. The horse-sprayer
Was too big and newfangled, bluestone might
Burn me in the eyes, the horse was fresh. I
Might scare the horse, and so on. I threw stones
At a bird on the shed roof, as much for
The clatter of the stones as anything.
But when he came back, I was inside the house
And saw him out the window, scatter-eyes
And daunted, strange without his hat,
His step unguided,his ghosthood immanent.
When he was turning on the riverbank,
The horse had rusted and reared up and pitched
Cart and sprayer and everything off balance,
So the whole rig went over into a deep
Whirlpool, hoofs, chains, shafts, carwheels, barrel
And tackle, all tumbling off the world.
And the hat already merrily swept along
The quieter reaches. That afternoon
I saw him face to face, he came to me
. With his damp footprints out of the river,
And there was nothing between us there
That might not still be happily ever after.


- - - - - -

A tale well told I say. And a relationship that could continue until the father's death. I liked it more with each reading. The phrase "his ghosthood immanent" must have been a reference as he remembers his father and placing a name to what he perhaps had seen or felt as a boy.

JoanK
March 22, 2006 - 06:38 pm
I like that poem very much.

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 05:52 am
MarjV,

Thank you for your comments. "His ghosthood immanent," for some reason, makes me think the adult Seamus Heaney realized he was looking at two father figures living in his head. The one he sees as a child, heroic and able to live forever. Then, the one he sees as an adult. The older Seamus Heaney sees the fragile father figure, the one who must meet death one day.

That is, I think, the beauty of aging. The ability to move back and forth in time through our memories.

That first line stood out to me too.

"Once upon a time my undrowned father"

Thank you MarjV and Scrawler.

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 05:56 am
It's interesting too how Seamus Heaney uses the words "Once upon a time" at the beginning of the poem. I think Seamus Heaney is one of those poets writing with every single word in mind. It's wonderful.

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 06:31 am
Holly

It rained when it should have snowed.
When we went to gather holly


The ditches were swimming, we were wet
to the knees, our hands were all jags

and water ran up our sleeves.
There should have been berries

but the sprigs we brought into the house
gleamed like smashed bottle-glass.

Now here I am, in a room that is decked
with the red-berried, waxy-leafed stuff,

and I almost forget what it's like
to be wet to the skin or longing for snow.

I reach for a book like a doubter
and want it to flare round my hand,


a black-letter bush, a glittering shield-wall,
cutting as holly and ice.

Seamus Heaney

I love holly. I had a wreath of fake holly on my door during the winter months. I think Seamus Heaney is at some fancy cocktail party with all the beautiful artificial trimmings around him. Somehow his mind flies back to the days when he went out in the rain and snow to gather fresh or "real" holly. These are the days, the ones of cold, rain, snow, that will never leave his memory.

My favorite lines are

but the sprigs we brought into the house
gleamed like smashed bottle-glass.

What a pretty way to describe holly.

MarjV
March 23, 2006 - 07:48 am
1---Hats said:"Heaney realized he was looking at two father figures living in his head"

That's really a good insight.

And yes, I also like that "Once upon a time" for his first line. You sort of know to snuggle your mind and follow a story.

2---And Hats, what a good idea- that he might have been somewhere and had the memory of holly and it's gathering come to mind. The images in that poem are so specific. I can feel the wetness- he often tells us of water in it's many ramifications. I can remember childhood wet sleeves. And what a reminder of how simple rites of celebration such as gathering holly can stay part of our self. I don't know if going to a Christmas tree farm to cut a tree as a rite of celebration could bring quite the same feeling to a city child as Heaney's gathering of holly- actually, I don't think so. Only in another manner- perhaps of a family together.

I found this from an essay online in the New Criterion:"The poem is a lament for the intensity of childhood enthusiasms, even for childhood discomforts. The book he reaches for would be a substitute for those intensities. I find it striking that as a metaphor for the “cutting” sharpness he seeks, Heaney comes up with an image from Anglo-Saxon celebrations of war, the “shield-wall” familiar to readers of poems like “The Battle of Maldon.”

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 07:54 am
MarjV,

You answered my question. I didn't know the definition of a "shield-wall."

The "black letter bush" threw me off too.

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 07:57 am
We always had a fresh Christmas tree. You could buy those along any street. Then, the silver, aluminum trees came into style: No smell, no falling of needles, etc.

I think Seamus Heaney gives a good picture of what it's like to pick fresh holly.

MarjV,

Thank you for the words from the essay. That just makes the poem more wonderful.

MarjV
March 23, 2006 - 08:02 am
Those last lines puzzled me, Hats. That's why I went looking for a possible idea.

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 08:17 am
MarjV,

Thank you! We couldn't do without you.

Scrawler
March 23, 2006 - 12:09 pm
"Thanks for the memories." Who was it that used to say that at the end of his TV show? I vaguely remember someone closing their show with those words, but alas I was just a child and sometimes children don't always remember things as clearly as when we become adults. I wonder why that is. Perhaps it is because as adults we sometimes drift between the present and the past rather than than just being in the present as when we were children. At any rate thanks for all those postings.

The Toome Road

One morning early I met armoured cars
In convoy, warbling along on powerful tyres,
All camouflaged with broken alder branches
And headphoned soldiers standing up in turrets.
How long were they approaching down my roads
As if they owned them? The whole country was sleeping
I had rights-of-way, fields, cattle in my keeping,
Tractors hitched to buckrakes in open sheds,
Silos, chill gates, wet slates, the greens and reds
Of outhouse roofs. Whom should I run to tell
Among all of those with their back doors on the latch
For the bringer of bad news, that small-hours visitant
Who, by being expected, might be kept distant?
Sowers of seed, erectors of headstones...
O charioteers, above your dormant guns,
It stands here still, stands vibrant as you pass,
The invisible, untoppled omphalos.

~ Seamus Heaney

I had been reading "Newsweek" dated March 27, 2006 and in it was an article on Iraq about "improvised explosive devices (IEDs)" and how this army captain and his bomb squad would go looking for them on the streets of Bagdad - they call it "running the gaulet." We just recently had the three year anniversary of the Iraq invasion and as fate would have it after I finished the artcle I opened "Opened Ground" by Seamus Heaney and the book fell open to the above poem - "The Toome Road." Incidently, "omphalos" is defined as: a central point: Hub, focal point.

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 12:31 pm
Scrawler, "Thanks for the Memories," I think of Bob Hope. Maybe I am wrong?

Scrawler,

The "Toome Road" made me think right away of Iraq. I can't help but think of the disruption of lives. What a timely poem!

How long were they approaching down my roads
As if they owned them?

MarjV
March 23, 2006 - 01:11 pm
I've read that poem in all its stark reality several times.

I wanted to know more of the significance of "omphalos" in the last lines. From wikipedia.com:


An omphalos is a religious stone artifact in the ancient world. In Greek, the word omphalos means "navel".

According to the ancient Greeks, Zeus sent out two eagles to fly across the world to meet at its center, the "navel" of the world. Omphalos stones to denote this point were erected in several areas surrounding the Mediterranean Sea, the most famous of those was at the oracle in Delphi.

Erwin Rohde wrote that the Python at Delphi was an earth spirit, who was conquered by Apollo, and buried under the Omphalos, and that it is a case of one god setting up his temple on the grave of another.

Omphalos stones were said to allow direct communication with the gods.

- - - - - - - -

I think he used "omphalos" to signify their religious belief was centered right there in amidst the land they loved, in which they lived. That no matter who rumbled by, the gumen in their turrets, the charioteers, as they would have been named in ancient Greece, that the Irish people would prevail.

Dreadfully hard to think about tanks coming down my street as they do in cities of Iraq, etc.

MarjV
March 23, 2006 - 01:15 pm
Yes, Bob HOpe would sing that. Here are the music and lyrics.

http://www.byjoy.com/BobHope.html

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 01:19 pm
MarjV,

Thank you for explaining the "omphalos." Now, with the definition, the poem becomes more meaningful and centers my mind on Ireland.

Thanks for the link to the lyrics too.

I had missed reading "The Toome Road." Is that the whole poem? Is there more?

Hats
March 23, 2006 - 01:21 pm
I have the poem. Thank you. Scrawler gave the whole poem in its entirety.

MarjV
March 23, 2006 - 03:49 pm
And I had to come back and say this---"The Toome Road" speaks of a boy in charge of the world around him. He says "I had...." I like to get up early and walk in the summer as I feel the same way - there are no intrusions of sight or sound.

Jim in Jeff
March 23, 2006 - 06:10 pm
Yep, Bob Hope would end his MANY YEARS of free shows at military bases worldwide with that song. He'd tweak the words to reflect events at whatever various base he was entertaining that day.

Thanks so much, MarjV, for your link to "Thanks so much" Bob Hope's tribute website. I loved it. And I've up and signed their guest book (giving SN's poetry discussions a well-deserved plug there, natch).

Hats
March 24, 2006 - 03:10 am
MarjV,

Thank you for coming back with "Holly" in mind. I missed that part altogether. Now I am going to read the poem again. I really like this poem.

Hats
March 24, 2006 - 04:04 am
The Strand at Lough Beg

In Memory of Colum McCartney

Across that strand of yours the cattle graze
Up to their bellies in an early mist
And now they turn their unbewildered gaze
To where we work our way through squeaking sedge
Drowning in dew. Like a dull blade with its edge
Honed bright, Lough Beg half shines under the haze.
I turn because the sweeping of your feet
has stopped behind me, to find you on your knees
with blood and roadside muck in your hair and eyes,
Then kneel in front of you in brimming grass
And gather up cold handfuls of the dew
To wash you, cousin. I dab you clean with moss
Fine as the drizzle out of a low cloud.
I lift you under the arms and lay you flat.
With rushes that shoot green again, I plait
Green scapulars to wear over your shroud.


Seamus Heaney

This is a sad poem. It is dedicated to a specific person. This person is a cousin. I was struck by the poem because of the fragility of peace. The cows are lazily contented, the workers are in a routine and the sedge is wet with dew.

Then, all of a sudden this peaceful early, early morning is broken by chaos, painful and ugly chaos. A close relative is injured badly. He washes his cousin with cold dew. So much immediate love is shown in that moment of desperate need.

I relate to this poem because at times in my life tragedy has struck quickly and without notice. Those horrible times have come when everything seemed so perfect. I think those moments which come in time of war, when people are striving to live ordinary lives, must have a different feeling of heartbreak. Maybe a deeper sadness than I have ever experienced. So, I won't list one of my personal tragedies here.

Besides, Seamus Heaney's pain comes across as so real and poignant, I must not touch his words with mine.

annafair
March 24, 2006 - 05:53 am
Since I was here last ,,Some of the poems I have read and would have posted but am now trying to adjust to "new" teeth,.My mouth seems SO FULL and of course there is soreness in the gums where the teeth were extracted...I am finding it hard to eat..I trust as time passes that will change ..or perhaps since I could lose a few pounds this might be a blessing in disguise..

Heaneys poems of his past, his memories of his life have certainly affected me. As I lay in bed at night my mind has gone back to my beginning.. How clear I see it ..From my birth ,which of course I DONT remember but somehow feel I do...I see the street where I lived in such sharp clarity I remembered it before but not with this clearness , this certainty ..I have no poem for now but will look through my books and come up with one.

I did want to share one of mine Today in the 12th anniverary of my husbands death, I have written dozens of poems about it, because it was and still is the only way I could deal with his going...anna

The Cost of Loving


Mourning is the price we pay for loving.
Grief, the cost extracted from those who care.
Pain, the fee for knowing
Love is only for those who dare.
Caught in dreams we hope
The path is free of rocks and stones.
Faith gives us a way to cope
When life demands payment on our loans.
Love makes our vision a web of lies
Even as we face our knowing.
Ceases with our hearts good-byes.
Honesty until the end disowning.

We see ourselves together going home,
When truth declares we go alone.


Anna Alexander 2/14/99 all rights reserved

Hats
March 24, 2006 - 06:13 am
Anna,

Thank you for sharing your poem. Your poem touches my heart especially those last two lines.

We see ourselves together going home,
When truth declares we go alone.

MarjV
March 24, 2006 - 07:01 am
Heaneys poem. In Memory of Colum, is so exquisite in description of setting and mourning. What more can be said - it is put there right down in front of our face. Beautiful expression of thoughts you have gifted us with, Hats.
- - - - -

And then Anna tells us thru poetry of her mourning in her unique and heart wrenching thoughts.

Scrawler
March 24, 2006 - 11:32 am
On the most westerly Blasket
In a dry-stone hut
He got this air out of the night

Strange noises were heard
By others who followed, bits of a tune
Coming in on loud weather

Though nothing like melody.
He blamed their fingers and ear
As unpractised, their fiddling easy

For he had gone alone into the island
And brought back the whole thing.
The house throbbed like his full violin.

So whether he calls it spirit music
Or not, I don't care. He took it
Out of wind off mid-Atlantic.

Still he maintains, from nowhere
It comes off the bow gravely
Rephrases itself into the air.



~Seamus Heaney

Thanks for all those wonderful posts. Yes, Bob Hope - that's who it was and Marj thanks for the information on omphalos. As for all those wonderful poems - words can hardly express my feelings especially yours, Anna.

I liked this poem, "The Given Note" not only for what it says, but also for what I can feel from the poem. Everyone in my family has been a musician at one time or another. Because of my hearing dificulties I can't hear words or music sometimes, but I can feel the vibrations of the music by putting my ear or my hand on the instrument that is playing - like a radio or a TV set. That way I can truly "feel" the music.

Hats
March 24, 2006 - 11:49 am
Scrawler,

Thanks for posting "The Given Note." My husband can do solos. The rest of us are tune death. I always admire people who can make music with an organ, piano or violin.

"The house throbbed like his full violin."

That's my favorite line.

MarjV
March 24, 2006 - 01:54 pm
Take a look at this cd!!!!!

SEAMUS HEANEY & LIAM O'FLYNN: THE POET & THE PIPER

Would be just amazing to hear now that we are at the tail end of our Seamus month! I just shudder as the description sounds so neat. It begins with "The Given Note"- that is how I came across it when I did a search on the poem's title !!!!!!!!!!!.

-- - - - -- -- - -

What a poem that is. Love the lines about how the musician may have received his composition idea- can't find any other words to say as Seamus does it.

Hats
March 24, 2006 - 02:10 pm
MarjV, thank you!

Scrawler
March 25, 2006 - 10:44 am
The smells of ordinariness
Were new on the night drive through France:
Rain and hay and woods on the air
Made warm draughts in the open car.

Signposts whitened relentlessly.
Montreuil, Abbeville, Beauvais
Were promised, promised, came and went
Each place granting its name's fulfilment.

A combine groaning its way late
Bled seeds across its work-light.
A forest fire smouldered out.
One by one small cafés shut.

I thought of you continuously
A thousand miles south where Italy
Laid its loin to France on the darkened sphere.
Your ordinariness was renewed there.

~ Seamus Heaney

What an interesting poem. I've never thought of anyone I love as being "ordinary." Yet, I suppose that is true. We are all really ordinary in the truest sense. We are all a part of the puzzle - fitting together in the most ordinary of ways. If on the other hand we were all extraordinary it would probably led to chaos. Just as there is harmony and balance in nature so too our own lives must be in harmony and balance and in doing so we are "ordinary."

MrsSherlock
March 25, 2006 - 01:03 pm
Ordinary might mean the sort of feeling one associates with something like "comfort food". I am rebuffed each time I read how some man's beloved is "beautiful". I have never been and never will be beautiful, so what did those men who have love me thing of me? Maybe I was "ordinary" and that was sufficient. Again, he forces one to delve deeply into the meaning of his "ordinary" words. So moving.

MarjV
March 25, 2006 - 01:28 pm
I like how you brought it together for the poem, Scrawler. Interesting in the first line how he says: "the smells of ordinariness were new....". That fits in with what Mrs S says of "comfort food". These were smells of comfort. The thoughts of the one missed was "comfort"

I like it.

MarjV
March 25, 2006 - 01:40 pm
"A Kite for Michael and Christopher"

All through that Sunday afternoon
a kite flew above Sunday,
a tightened drumhead, an armful of blown chaff.

I'd seen it grey and slippy in the making,
I'd tapped it when it dried out white and stiff,
I'd tied the bows of newspaper
along its six-foot tail.

But now it was far up like a small black lark
and now it dragged as if the bellied string
were a wet rope hauled upon
to lift a shoal.

My friend says that the human soul
is about the weight of a snipe,
yet the soul at anchor there,
the string that sags and ascends,
weigh like a furrow assumed into the heavens.

Before the kite plunges down into the wood
and this line goes useless
take in your two hands, boys, and feel
the strumming, rooted, long-tailed pull of grief.
You were born fit for it.
Stand in here in front of me
and take the strain.

- - - - - -


There are certainly many things to look at in this poem.
First of course is the image of the boys flying their
kite. And then we see the soul is brought into play as an
image/metaphor. Our soul does soar. It also bears grief.


And at the end he tells the boys they were born fit for it;
fit for the strain. The strain of having a soul? Some days>br? it does strain.

I do remember that feeling of the heavy weight of the kite
and that "bellied string". Kites way up there bouncing around
are such a light looking sight. Not heavy at allto the eye.

Having fun rambling around here. That's all I know to mention
right now.

annafair
March 25, 2006 - 03:15 pm
Require a bit of thought and I suspect each person reading one will say OH YES that is what it means,.

Before the kite plunges down into the wood
and this line goes useless
take in your two hands, boys, and feel
the strumming, rooted, long-tailed pull of grief.
You were born fit for it.
Stand in here in front of me
and take the strain.


The kits is soaring , enjoying the life it has but like all of us soon it will plung down...and the line that held it aloft is useless. I think he is telling the boys to grab life, they were born for it and it wont be easy but take it and run with it ...that is what comes to my mind...the only way to enjoy life is to run with it. and if it isnt easy take it anyway ,,,,we are given life and the only way to make it meaningful is live it ...anna

MarjV
March 25, 2006 - 03:20 pm
Boy , do I like that thought, Anna: "and if it isnt easy take it anyway ,,,,we are given life and the only way to make it meaningful is live it"

Jim in Jeff
March 25, 2006 - 03:49 pm
"Ordinariness:" The quality of being usual (one of several similar online definitions).

I'm still not living and breathing SH's meanings as I wish to; but I'm in here trying. Two different intents to his deliberate use of the term "ordinariness" come to my struggling mind today:

1. He meant "extraordinariness"; but two extra syllables would mess up the poem's cadence. Or...

2. His rural Ireland, like mine in mid-Missouri hills, meant ordinary as a deep compliment. As opposed, say, to having a superior "air" (putting on "airs"). As a kid, I'd often hear my Dear Grandmother pay a high compliment to someone: "She's just a plain old somebody."

To me, then and now, that makes good sense. Walk humbly, without airs; we're all in this world together...to get along.

Jim in Jeff
March 25, 2006 - 04:07 pm
So Mrs Sherlock, you likely ARE beautiful. My apologies to Bill for paraphrasing a recent ex-president: "Please define beautiful."

To a Mr Frog's mind, Ms Frog is the most beautiful vision around. Even we humans within our lifetime have seen the popular concept of "beauty" (in women) change in each decade: 20s flappers, 40s bobbie-soxers, post WW-II "new look," 50s creoline underskirts, 70s disco-look, up thru today's style and concept of beautiful.

In all these times though, it's the PERSON inside that is beautiful...to his/her attracted beholder.

I'm pontificating here, which surely AIN'T beautiful. But I want to include this poem which was ultimately recorded by MANY singers:

YOU ARE SO BEAUTIFUL Bruce Fisher / Billy Preston)

Billy Preston - 1974
Joe Cocker - 1974
Ray Stevens - 1976
Kenny Rankin - 1976
John Davidson - 1976
Tanya Tucker - 1977
Kenny Rogers - 1983
Also recorded by: Bonnie Tyler; Engelbert Humperdinck; Juanita Dailey; Wayne Newton; Sonny Criss; Nini Tempo; Capp/Pierce Orch; Little Eva; Karen Briggs; Greg Vail; David Syme; Phil Driscoll; Bob James; Lennon Sisters; Nohelani Cypriano; Charly; Steve Hall.

You are so beautiful
To me
You are so beautiful
To me
Can't you see

You're everything I hoped for
You're everything I need
You are so beautiful
To me

You are so wonderful
To me
You are so wonderful
To me
Can't you see

You're everything I hoped for
You're everything I need
You are so wonderful
To me

You are so beautiful
To me
You are so beautiful
To me
Can't you see

You're everything I hoped for
You're everything I need
You are so beautiful
To me

Not writen by Seamus Heaney. But I think it close to what he meant us to move our minds toward when he chose the term "ordinariness."

JoanK
March 25, 2006 - 04:44 pm
I just saw the movie "Calendar girls". One of the characters in the movie, a gardener, writes that (paraphrased):

The flowers of Yorkshire are like its women -- the last stage is the most beautiful.

And then they go to seed.

Since clearly none of us have gone to seed -- well then!

annafair
March 25, 2006 - 04:50 pm
Your post of the Song you are so beautiful is one of those special moments that come along unasked for, unexpected but so meaningful

My husband had a wonderful bass voice , sang in choirs, barbershop, and even alone and this is a bit hard to write but he often sang to me and You are so beautiful is one he sang to me quite often.

In real life I was just a rather ordinary person but he was such a unique person and because he treated all me of our life so special he made me feel beautiful and since he is on my mind today since as I have written yesterday is the 12th anniversary of his death and so I am a person who believes in small gifts of the spirit and you gave me one..anna

MarjV
March 25, 2006 - 04:52 pm
I am inclined to agree, Jim. I think that is what we were attempting to say.

JoanK- that is one of my all time fav movies I thought the time depiced in America could have been better edited.

MrsSherlock
March 25, 2006 - 06:18 pm
What in intricate web has been woven here of such small words, creating and re-creating that most precious human trait, loving. Thanks, Jim. Thanks, Seamus Heaney. Thanks, Annafair for letting us share your tender memories.

Hats
March 26, 2006 - 02:08 am
Jim in Jeff,

I love that song "You are so beautiful." I never knew all the words. Thank you Jim in Jeff for including the words too.

Hi Mrs. Sherlock!

MrsSherlock
March 26, 2006 - 10:28 am
Back at ya, Hats!

Hats
March 26, 2006 - 10:29 am

Scrawler
March 26, 2006 - 10:52 am
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I can't remember who said that - was it Keats? Loved your posts about "beauty."

The Wanderer:

In a semicircle we toed the line chalked around the master's desk and on a day when the sun was incubating milktops and warming the side of the jam jar where the bean had spilt its stitches, he called me forward and crossed my palm with silver. 'At the end of the holidays this man's going away to Derry, so this is for him, for winning the scholarship... We all wish him good luck. Now, back to your places.'

I have wandered far from that ring-giver and would not renegue on this migrant solitude. I have seen halls in flames, hearts in cinders, the benches filled and emptied, the circles of companions called and broken. That day I was a rich young man, who could tell you now of flittings, night-vigils, let-downs, women's cried-out eyes.

~ Seamus Heaney (from Stations 1975)

How this poem brings home memories of peanut-butter and jelly sandwiches and lunch boxes with the "Long Ranger and Tonto" on it that by the end of the year was banged up and the thermos was missing because you had broken it and your mother refused to replace it because it cost to much. I never won any prizes except once for "good citizenship" which must mean something.

And than before I knew it was all gone - the 50s, and suddenly we were embroiled in the 60s with Rock'n'Roll and Vietnam and it was never the same and like in Heaney's poem - I remember the let-downs and women's cried-out eyes - something they don't teach you in school and even if they did you wouldn't believe them if they did - it's something you learn as you live.

MrsSherlock
March 26, 2006 - 11:22 am
Scrawler, if they tried to teach you, you couldn't accept it because you were invulnerable, nothing bad would ever happen to you. I can remember those days, it is true that teenagers' brains don't work the same, consequences don't exist, nothing exists but the moment. Lucky for me my companions were not druggies or gang members. We did organize a tasting party where we sampled all kinds of alcoholic beverages; a great favorite was hot buttered rum! Anyway, it is the women's cried out eyes, especially when they are your won eyes, that make you truly human.

MarjV
March 26, 2006 - 12:16 pm
I like every line of "The Wanderer".

The one I find most fascinating is : "I have wandered far from that ring-giver and would not renege on this migrant solitude."

To me it tells of a time that 'was' for group and a time that 'is' for a more solitary existence. A solitude not to be given up by recreating something that was of the past.

And "migrant" solitude- a wandering way of being whether in spirit or body, I say.

Jim in Jeff
March 26, 2006 - 02:26 pm
Here's the most-definitive answer I can right now find online. It's posted in a Origins of Phrases discussion-board...by a fallible individual participant (as are we all). However, I found his/her post pretty well researched.

BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER - "The first stirrings toward this proverb appear to have come from the English dramatist John Lyly, who wrote in 'Euphues in England' (1580). 'As neere is Fancie to Beautie, as the pricke to the Rose,' and from William Shakespeare, who in 'Love's Labour's Lost' (c.1594) penned the line 'Beauty is bought by judgement of the eye.' Almost a century and a half later, Benjamin Franklin in his 'Poor Richard's Almanack' of 1741 included the lines, 'Beauty, like supreme dominion/ Is but supported by opinion,' and Scottish philosopher David Hume's 'Essays, Moral and Political' (1742) contained the perhaps too analytical 'Beauty in things exists merely in the mind which contemplates them.' It was not until 1878, however, that the modern wording of the proverb first appeared in 'Molly Brown,' by the Irish novelist Mr. Margaret Hungerford. The saying has been repeated frequently in the twentieth century." From "Wise Words and Wives' Tales: The Origins, Meanings and Time-Honored Wisdom of Proverbs and Folk Sayings Olde and New" by Stuart Flexner and Doris Flexner (Avon Books, New York, 1993).

So as we phrase it today, the phrase goes back to Ireland...possibly even to Seamus's kinfolk for all we know. So maybe he, like me, often quotes (or at least paraphrases) his own dear Grandmother. Yes?

Yes! I like that thought. Go, Seamus; go laddie go! (He's younger than me.)

Jim in Jeff
March 26, 2006 - 02:45 pm
I like it too. Now that Scrawler has called it (and its relevance to her) to our attention. As also have others here.

I see that it is in my one Heaney book too, about mid-way. And Scrawler didn't forget any linebreaks. It's published as paragraphs, just as she posted it here.

My book ("Opened Ground," SH's own favorites of his poems from 1966-1996) does include "Wanderer" among nine similar narrative-styled poems from his 1975 book "Stations." The other eight poems from this secton of MY book look intriguing too.

Perhaps I'll have comments on others of these later, when I can. And I wonder if these nine are part of a similar-style larger published book in 1975. If so, at least I do know that I have HIS nine favorite choices from it.

Jim in Jeff
March 26, 2006 - 02:56 pm
Oddly, this then little kid in 1947 saw a big-screen movie titled "Calendar Girl." Oh, my! First time I'd seen a lady drying herself off after a bath. And yes, she was..."beautiful to me." An image that's stuck with me quite a long while now, happy to say.

But JoanK's relating that current Calendar Girls' best-is-last (before going to seed) thought to our discussion...was IMHO "spot on." Mature ladies can (oh, so often) be...beautiful!

Not sure I'd cut it in today's teen-towns. Those bared upper butts...are not "beautiful to me"). Better than slashed Levi's, purple hair, and pierced tongue recent fads tho...IMHO natch.

Hats
March 27, 2006 - 02:36 am
Scrawler,

Thank you for your poem, "Night Drive" by Seamus Heaney. I also very much enjoyed reading your thoughts about being "ordinary." I wanted to repost your whole comment about the poem. There is no way I have the words to paraphrase your thoughts. I definitely do agree. It is wonderful to be an "ordinary" person.

annafair
March 27, 2006 - 08:12 am
and especially the comments. the sensible ones, the sly ones , the deep ones , the dry ones my what a repast , Poetry , thoughts , comments, my cup overflows. Would like to remind you that Saturday is April first and we will embark on Mary Oliver's poetry ship. I am glad my mind hit upon this idea of doing a poet a month ...It has opened doors into the poets heart and into our own. I will leave Heamus reluctantly behind but I am ready to sail with Mary.

Last night I sat with my book by Heany 1965-1975...there were any number of poems I could have shared today ..but while I was reading his in my own reflective momements I realized my mind is NEVER still It is an ocean , constantly moving, the tide going out and returning , washing up on other shores and sometimes flooding me and then leaving its debris for me to mull over in my mind.

The poem I chose to share today made me smile and finally just laugh out loud because I see Heaney's mind is like mine ..it isnt enough to just enjoy what one is doing ...NO that mind is always writing , putting what one is doing into a poem .and so I share Heaney's day at fishing ...anna

THE SALMON FISHER TO THE SALMON


The ridged lip, set upstream, you flail
Inland again, your exile in the sea
Unconditionally cancelled by the pull
Of your home water’s gravity.


And I stand in the centre, casting.
The river cramming under me reflects
Slung gaff and net and a white wrist flicking
Flies well dressed with tint and fleck.


Walton thought garden worms, perfumed
By oil crushed from dark ivy berries
The lure that took you best, but here you come
To grief through hunger in your eyes.


Ripples arrowing beyond me ,
The current strumming water up my leg.
Involved in water’s choreography
I go, like you , by gleam and drag


And will strike when you strike, to kill.
We’re both annihilated on the fly .
You can’t resist a gullet full of steel
. I will return home fish-smelling, scaly.


Heamus Heaney

MrsSherlock
March 27, 2006 - 08:36 am
Anna, sparked by your metaphor using the ocean, immediately I fixed on the ocean's depths, so much richness and color but hidden, waiting to reveal its glory in brief glimpses, menacing lurkers looming in the shadows.

Hats
March 27, 2006 - 09:05 am
Anna,

This poem makes me think of my father. He fished all of his life. He loved creeks and deep sea fishing. I can feel the motion of the ocean and see the man casting out his line.

What a wonderful mind you have, one that is always wondering and appreciating or discovering new ways of looking at your different life journeys. You are a wonderful model for all of us here.

MarjV
March 27, 2006 - 11:43 am
I had not read the Salmon poem. I like his chatter at the fish!

And that last line is great!

It was fun to read Jim's posts back there a couple.

Scrawler
March 27, 2006 - 12:20 pm
WELCOME HOME YE LADS OF THE EIGHTH ARMY. There had to be some defiance in it because it was painted along the demesne wall, a banner headline over the old news of REMEMBER 1690 and NO SURRENDER, a great wingspan of lettering I hurried under with the messages.

In a khaki shirt and brass-buckled belt, a demobbed neighbour leaned against our jamb. My father jingled silver deep in both pockets and laughed when the big clicking rosary beads were produced.

'Did they make a Papish of you over there?'

'Oh damn the fear! I stole them for you Paddy, off the Pope's dresser when his back was turned.'

'You could harness a donkey with them.'

"Their laughter sailed above my head, a hoarse clamour, two big nervous birds dipping and lifting, making trial runs across a territory.

~ Seamus Heaney

I thought this was a very different poem than some of the others. His sense of humor comes out in his converstion with Paddy. But it was the last line that really got to me. "Their laughter sailed above my head, a hoarse clamour, two big nervous birds dipping and lifting, making trial runs across a territory." Since the name of the poem is "Trial Runs" I don't think that it just refers to the "nervous birds" but rather to the war that Heaney was a part of. Is that what war is: "trial runs across a territory?" I'm a child of war - there hasn't been a time in my life that somebody wasn't at war with someone else - and since it still continues I guess we are still making "trial runs."

MarjV
March 27, 2006 - 01:14 pm
Oh- that last line is just great!!! Could the trial runs also be the fun making about stealing from the Pope's dresser?

MarjV
March 27, 2006 - 01:26 pm
This poem, "The Otter" is from the volume FIELD WORK. A review of the book from NYT says:

He heeded "an early warning system telling me to get back inside my own head." He spent four years in rural Wicklow, years of retreat only in the religious or monastic sense, a quiet time for thinking and renewal. Certain themes were sequestered, so that Heaney might start out again from first principles and deep affiliations.

"Field Work"(1979) is the record of those four sabbatical years in the country. The book is continuous with "North" in its values, but far stronger in its craft, what Yeats called its trade. Heaney is still "the etymologist of roots and graftings," Irish poetry's contact-man: seeing is still believing, but the strongest belief is touching and hearing. "North" was animated by those convictions, but the new poems listen even more movingly to "the music of what happens" and find a second music to respond to the first.

THE OTTER

By Seamus Heaney

When you plunged
The light of Tuscany wavered
And swung through the pool
From top to bottom.

I loved your wet head and smashing crawl,
Your fine swimmer's back and shoulders
Surfacing and surfacing again
This year and every year since.

I sat dry-throated on the warm stones.
You were beyond me.
The mellowed clarities, the grape-deep air
Thinned and disappointed.

Thank God for the slow loadening,
When I hold you now
We are close and deep
As the atmosphere on water.


My two hands are plumbed water.
You are my palpable, lithe
Otter of memory
In the pool of the moment,

Turning to swim on your back,
Each silent, thigh-shaking kick
Re-tilting the light,
Heaving the cool at your neck.

And suddenly you're out,
Back again, intent as ever,
Heavy and frisky in your freshened pelt,
Printing the stones.

- - - - - - -

I like this poem- it has whimsy to it. An enjoyment of the Otter's playfulness to our eye- if you are looking.

Hats
March 27, 2006 - 01:58 pm
MarjV and Scrawler,

I enjoyed both poems and your comments. I had read both poems. My mind didn't catch onto the meanings until I read your comments here. Thanks! Now I have two more of Seamus Heaney's poems to love.

Jim in Jeff
March 27, 2006 - 05:37 pm
Being a farm boy myself once, I too have this week been reading with pleasure SH's 1979 "Field Works" poems. They often reflect his rural visions and/or nature (i.e., his "The Otter" that MarjV shared with us).

Smack dab in middle of "Field Works," he includes "Glanmore Sonnets" (ten poems in sonnet form). I first liked their rural visions...which reminded me of mine in many details. And being sonnets, they make their "say" in 14 lines...a size even I have a chance to grasp at one sitting.

But it was after I'd googled info about Glanmore that I understood these poems better. Knowing where SH is coming from...does help ME.

Turns out, he and wife in 1972 retreated from Ulster (and its strifes) to live at Glanmore for four years...hoping to find peace and creative renewal through closeness to the natural world. And tidbits of just such a pastoral peace pop up often in these 10 sonnets he wrote while there, I think.

After I realized these sonnets reflected SH and his wife in a rural retreat, they became to me vivid...and "beautiful."

I like his tenth and last sonnet best. Here in 14 lines, he works the PRESENT, a dream world, and a past memory into a (quite-lovely, I think) discussion with his wife. The other nine sonnets also have many poignant thoughts worth discussing. But here, I'll stay with my fave, Sonnet X.

Sonnet X of "Glanmore Sonnets" (from SH's 1979 "Field Works"):

I dreamt we slept in a moss in Donegal
On turf banks under blankets, with our faces
Exposed all night in a wetting drizzle,
Pallid as the dripping sapling birches.
Lorenzo and Jessica in a cold climate.
Diarmuid and Grainne waiting to be found.
Darkly asperged and censed, we were laid out
Like breathing effigies on a raised ground.
And in that dream I dreamt - how like you this? -
Our first night years ago in that hotel
When you came with your deliberate kiss
To raise us towards the lovely and painful
Covenants of flesh; our separateness;
The respite in our dewy dreaming faces.

I can add that Lorenzo and Jessica would be the lovers in Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice." Diarmuid and Grainne (Grania) of Celtic legend are pictured in Yeats's "A Faery Song" sleeping their "bridal sleep (outdoors) in the long dew-dripping hours of the night."

The rest of SH's sonnet can be interpreted by each reader as we see it, I think.

annafair
March 27, 2006 - 06:11 pm
That collection of poems are not in either of the 3 books I have but will add them ...there isnt a line in this poem that doesnt move me ...I am full of remembering thank you ..anna

MrsSherlock
March 27, 2006 - 07:24 pm
Jim. I am moved to tears.

Hats
March 28, 2006 - 12:46 am
The poem is very beautiful and moving. Thank you for all the explanations about the poem too. I like knowing what a poet is thinking about when he writes a poem. It makes the poem even richer.

MarjV
March 28, 2006 - 06:07 am
Yes, I second all that.

Sonnet X is beautiful.

Scrawler
March 28, 2006 - 12:46 pm
All I know is a door into the dark
Outside, old axles and iron hoops rusting;
Inside, the hammered anvil's short-pitched ring,
The unpredictable fantail of sparks
Or hiss when a new shoe toughens in water.
The anvil must be somewhere in the centre,
Horned as a unicorn, at one end square,
Set there immovable: an altar
Where he expends himself in shape and music.
Sometimes, leather-aproned, hairs in his nose,
He leans out on the jamb, recalls a clatter
Of hoofs where traffic is flashing in rows;
Then grunts and goes in, with a slam and flick
To beat real iron out, to work the bellows.

~ Seamus Heaney

In years it was the "Forge" that was the center of the lives of the people outside of the house or home. For without a blacksmith you couldn't get your horses shoed or have your weapons forged. As I look outside my window I can't help wonder if there is a central place were we would go today. Could it be a gas-station? It seems silly but the way we are depended on gas and oil it might have some relevance

MarjV
March 28, 2006 - 01:16 pm
I'm afraid the mall is a "Forge" for many people. I'm not a shopping person so it is far from a place of interest for me.

I really didn't realize what an anvil was. Just looked now at pics on Google. There are different shapes.

Anvil images

This poem brings you right into the power and essence of the blacksmith and the forge.

Hats
March 28, 2006 - 01:33 pm
Didn't Henry Wadsworth Longfellow write a poem about a blacksmith. When Scrawler posted "The Forge," I thought HWL's poem.

MarjV, thanks for the link.

Hats
March 28, 2006 - 01:37 pm
the village

MarjV
March 28, 2006 - 02:38 pm
Good,, Hats. I enjoyed reading it again - been a long time.

Scrawler
March 29, 2006 - 11:28 am
I sat all morning in the college sick bay
Counting bells knelling classes to close.
At two o'clock our neighbours drove me home.

In the porch I met my father crying-
He had always taken funerals in stride-
And Big Jim Evans saying it was a hard blow.

The baby cooed and laughed and rocked the pram
When I came in, and I was embarrassed
By old men standing up to shake my hand

And tell me they were 'sorry for my trouble'.
Whispers informed strangers I was the eldest,
Away at school, as my mother held my hand

In hers and coughed out angry tearless sighs
At ten o'clock the ambulance arrived
With the corpse, stanched and bandaged by the nurses

Next morning I went up into the room. Snowdrops
And candles soothed the bedside; I saw him
For the first time in six weeks. Paler now,

Wearing a poppy bruise on his left temple,
He lay in the four-foot box as in his cot.
No gaudy scars, the bumper knocked him clear.

A four-foot box, a foot for every year.



~ Seamus Heaney

There is sadness here to be sure, but the poem also tells a story about how people handle death of their loved ones in their own way. I can remember as a child being made to kiss my great-grandmother in her coffin and than running away and after hiding, crying. I am not sure whether I was more afraid of my great-grandmother in the coffin or whether is was the fact that I was made to kiss her. That image of her laying there in her coffin has stayed with me for years.

MarjV
March 29, 2006 - 11:46 am
Seeing the above poem again led me to want to post this ode to his father as he was dieing.

SEEING THE SICK

Annointed and all, my father did remind me
Of Hopkin's Felix Randall.
And then he grew
(As he would have said himself)"wee in his clothes" -
Spectral, a relict -
And seem to have grown so
Because of something spectral he'd thrown off


................................

[And the last 3 lines]
His smile a summer half-door oepning out
And opening in. A reprieving light.
For which the tendered morphine had our thanks.

- - - - - - - - -

This is the last poem in the volume, ELECTRIC LIGHT c.2001

Here is what a reviewer said about this volume:Heaney has always made luminescent the events and objects of everyday life, a feat he accomplishes again in "Electric Light." His superb attention to the minute and mundane has not diminished with time. In the title poem, he describes his boyish, wondrous delight at standing on a chair, as his parents watch, to reach a light switch for the first time. The scene, like so many in this book, is a powerful reminder that moments like these, when preserved in memory, provide small but sweet comfort against the grievous losses we endure in life.

I think that is why I like his poetry - because of his attention to the "minute and mundane".

And yes, he did spell it 'relict'. Means pretty much the same as 'relic'.

-----And here is a link to Gerald Hopkin's poem "Felix Randal" as mentioned in Heaney's ode to his own father. "Felix Randal" poem

Jim in Jeff
March 29, 2006 - 03:49 pm
Gee Whiz...you guys here are GOOD! All of you!

I'm still back there with Scrawler's anvil. It's true that the village blacksmith shop was often a "gathering place." Even as I was growing up, attending twelve years of school in a "village" (pop 400).

However, this town's older gents would more often gather at the town's "country store." Especially in winter.The store had a pot-bellied wood-burning stove, center-placed. Around it, the town's old gents would sit, spit (tabaccy-juice), and talk the talk (theirs).

The blacksmith shop was a couple blocks away from mid-town...but its Smithy had (even in my young school years, the 1940s), all the forging iron-work he could handle, and more.

BUT, before the town and his business, our family and others had pioneered to the area and established homesteads in the area. Some then set up small blacksmith shops in their out-sheds. My great-grandpa was one such blacksmith. He'd use that anvil, fire, and hammer...to satisfy his own iron-work needs and (in work-trades) those of any other homesteaders within walking distance of him.

I grew up on a farm near my Great-grandpa's homestead (my age 6 to 14, when he died). I'm thankful to have known him. He never "worked for others"; lived off HIS land; took his goat's milk and eggs via buggy-and-mule to "town" occasionally, trading them for staples.

I'll never forget going into his blacksmithing shed a couple times when he was there, airing the fire and hammering a horse-shoe or two. What a life, our forefathers expreienced...that we today can hardly envision!

Here's a link to a photo of him, 2 months before he died. http://home.thirdage.com/Reading/jimva/grandpa_forbis_nov1950.jpg with five of his great-grandkids, me at age 14 there the eldest by far. The others were born after WW II ended and my uncles returned.

The FOUR FOOT BOX poem echoes my own two funeral attendances this week. Again, Heaney reflects our own experiences...ORDINARY lives, being one way to put it.

annafair
March 29, 2006 - 03:59 pm
I found this poem on the web and copied to paste here I love this poem because dawn is my favorite time of day..I am always anxious when the first light appears and the sky is still grey and the world is the same No green yet , and I wait for the first rays to awake the sleeping world ...I think he is remembering his college days, and it is very early since the pigeons were down on the street ..traffic would have made them fly away, they were going slow ( on bicycles perhaps 5 miles an hour or being careful not to go too fast) past ofther groups who have have stayed up all night ,the group watched them as they moved onward to the sea and he left his friends behind as I would have too. The sea means being alone at least for part of the time and while I have not found the remains of cockles and winkles I have found bits of shell and the seas debris like him ..a rash upon the sand and I can almost feel them under my bare feet...in the house I would complain but not there ..they were in their element and I the intruder and I was glad they let me stay... AND I love this quote from above "The scene, like so many in this book, is a powerful reminder that moments like these, when preserved in memory, provide small but sweet comfort against the grievous losses we endure in life."

"I think that is why I like his poetry - because of his attention to the "minute and mundane".

DAWN
Somebody lets up a blind.
The shrub at the window
Glitters, a mint of green leaves
Pitched and tossed.


When we stopped at the lights
In the centre, pigeons were down
On the street, a scatter
Of cobbles clucking and settling.


We went at five miles an hour.
A tut-tutting colluquy
Was in session, scholars
Arguing through until morning


In Pompeian silence.
The dummies watched from the window -
Displays as we slipped to the sea.
I got away out by myself


On a scurf of winkles and cockles
And found myself suddenly
Unable to move without crunching
Acres of their crisp delicate turrets.
Seamus Heaney

annafair
March 29, 2006 - 04:07 pm
I loved the picture of all but since I never knew either of my grandfathers ( I did have a couple of uncles who were special) I looked at yours and thought that is the kind of grandfather I would have had.. Even my husband died before being a grandfather, and my children never knew a grandfather either as both passed away before we married..thanks so much for sharing yours.....anna

Jim in Jeff
March 29, 2006 - 04:16 pm
Thanks, Anna. One minor correction...this is a pic of my GREAT-grandpa. I was raised by my grandparents on a farm near his. He is my wonderful grandmother's father. At age 10-12, he pioneered with family from North Carolina to mid-Missouri to homestead it here.

He lived on that homestead, took ownership in his turn, and hard-worked it 80+ years (1868-1950).

To not have known one's grandpa's...? I can't quite imagine that!

Your "Dawn" poem by SH is another good example of SH's invoking our own memories while describing his own ("ORDINARY") experiences.

MarjV
March 29, 2006 - 05:36 pm
Jim- what a great picture that is. He sure looks like a great gramps!

That is so neat in the "Dawn" poem where he gets off by himself. I sure know and relate to that feeling. What a way to being the day - listening to the colloquy of the pigeons & what a description -- a scatter Of cobbles clucking and settling.-- a tutting colluquy --

Hats
March 29, 2006 - 10:04 pm
Jim in Jeff,

Thank you for sharing your "village" story and your great grandpa's photo. What a treasure to always share.

Hats
March 29, 2006 - 10:09 pm
Anna, thank you for sharing "Dawn." I love the beginning of the day too. At first light there seems so many possibilities before me. These are my favorite lines.

DAWN
Somebody lets up a blind.
The shrub at the window
Glitters, a mint of green leaves
Pitched and tossed.

annafair
March 30, 2006 - 07:50 am
To leave this poet behind. Not only did it stir many old and precious memories but I learned a lot about Ireland and what things are called there It has been an education for me .

I am off to get a book by Mary Oliver today although there will be a link in the new heading and according to the site it contains ALL of Mary Oliver's poems. But I am a person who likes to have books around and re read them at my leisure or take them with me...So I will drop by Barnes and Nobles or check out the new book store Borders ...and buy a collection of her poems.

I realize Heaney is not everyone's cup of tea but I wouldnt have missed this months emphasis on Heaney .. it certainly stirred us all and you have all been so generous sharing what his poems meant to you and your own memories ..

Jim thanks again for the picture YOUR great-grandfather .. wow . My great grandfathers never lived in America and I suspect when my grandparents arrived here they didnt have room for pictures and since I only had one grandparent , my Little Grandma Hannigan that is the only one I knew but thank heavens she was a storehouse of stories and memories.. anna

Scrawler
March 30, 2006 - 12:20 pm
And some time make the time to drive out west
Into County Clare, along the Flaggy Shore
In September or October, when the wind
And the light are working off each other
So that the ocean on one side is wild
With foam and glitter, and inland among stones
The surface of a slate-grey like is lit
By the earthed lightning of a flock of swans,
Their feathers roughed and ruffling, white on white
Their fully grown headstrong-looking heads
Tucked or cresting or busy underwater.
Useless to think you'll park and capture it
More thoroughly. you are neither here nor there,
A hurry through which known and strange things pass
As big soft buffetings come at the car sideways
And catch the heart off guard and blow it open.

~Seamus Heaney

Thanks for sharing Jim and Anna. When my husband and I went back to see his home in New Mexico in the 1960s, one of the towns he lived in was Madrid - it was virtually a ghost town except for the blacksmith where an old man sat out in front watching as the cars whizzed by. I remember my husband was disappointed because he remembered the town in the 40s and 50s when it was busy. What was amazing was that when we stopped and talked with the old man; he actually remembered my husband as a little boy.

Anna I have to say I like the dawn but I love the sunset. Living in San Francisco I've seen some spectacular sunsets especially over the ocean - which brings us to this to the poem. I love the lines: "You are neither here nor there, A hurry through which known and strange things pass..." I used to sit for hours on the rocks and indeed I was neither here nor there, and [I would imagine] that strange things [passed by.] Even now as I listen to the cars whizzing by outside my window they can at times seem only like the crashing of waves upon the rocks and I feel that I am neither "here nor there."

Jim in Jeff
March 30, 2006 - 05:54 pm
Well, we have earlier here equated SH's swing with paintings-with-swings. Lovely connecton, I think. So in same vein...:

Anna's "Dawn" poem and Scrawler's "Postscript" poems by SH, and the memories evoked and shared by Anna & Ann in these SH poems, remind me of my late-in-my-life college essay on Luminism (a 19th-century American painting style just following USA's "Hudson River" style).

Luminism tried to capture the effects of light and atmosphere...with light seeming to "emanate" from the painting. Luminist painters often did seascapes off New England's coasts...so their facing east included more "dawn" and "moonlight" scenes than "sunsets."

My favorite luminism painter was Fitz Hugh Lane, whom I developed into an "A" essay-grade in a college Art-appreciation course in 1985. Other well-regarded luminist painters were Frederick Church (Niagra Falls), Martin J Heade (also did hummingbirds), among others.

High time for examples of luminism paintings. Here's 3 typical ones by Fitz Hugh Lane:

His "DAWN" (a seacoast scene): Sunrise Through Hazy Mist

And two more of FHLane's lovely seascapes: Ship Starlight and Boston Harbor.

In all these, a source of light seems to "emanate" from the painting toward us...the luminist-effect.

What happened to this lovely painting style? Well, a new generation of painters came along...and prefered to "do their own things." As do most youths, including you and me I think.

Oh, my! What tangents and ranges, SH's poems can evoke for us! But we here have been saying that in various ways all month now...Yes?

annafair
March 30, 2006 - 06:36 pm
And it is sad that style gave way to some of the MODERN painters ..I wonder sometimes if some of the modern painters will eventually go our of style ..what a great treat this has been the poems and everyones thoughts and sharing were open sesame to my heart ..thanks but April 1st we start with another poet and do you realize WE WILL NEVER RUN OUT OF POETS ? Now that is something to look forward to ..Between Langston Hughes and Seamus Heaney I have found a way back to the past ..who knows what we will discover next>???anna

Hats
March 31, 2006 - 01:27 am
Thank you, Jim in Jeff. Very beautiful.

MarjV
March 31, 2006 - 06:21 am
How wonderful are those luminist paintings. Thanks Jim.

Scrawler posted the same poem I was going to give. I like every line. The last few remind me of how beauty is tentative in the sense we cannot hold it in our grasp and have the feeling continue. It soars our mind and imagination.

"Useless to think you'll park and capture it More thoroughly. you are neither here nor there"

Makes me remember how often beauty causes me to be very sad because it goes deeper than just looking.

We have swans that hang around our park river - they do the same actions described in the poem..

I have sad feelings going on to another poet. We have been so immersed in Heaney's poetry it's is like he has become a companion that I don't want to lose. Nice that we don't lose a poet when their works are there for us revisit.

Hats
March 31, 2006 - 07:03 am
I have enjoyed this month with Seamus Heaney too. I have enjoyed all the comments, photographs and paintings and the poems written by our in-house poets. These two months have been unforgettable. Now I am looking forward to our next poet, Mary Oliver.

MrsSherlock
March 31, 2006 - 10:59 am
I echo Hats' comments. Langston Hughes has long been a favorite, but I discovered Paul Laurence Dunbar, also. He has joined my stable of personal poets. Seamus Heaney is there, now, too. When I get in a poetry reading mood, I just grab the appropriate poet's works and take off mentally to places and feelings which I can't create on my own. Mary Oliver will have to be very special to follow these acts. Lead on!

Scrawler
March 31, 2006 - 11:43 am
Have you guys noticed that as we get older "elevator" music gets better. I loved all your comments about Seamus Heney. Only a month ago some us didn't know who he was but now through his poems we've gotten to get to know him and he fits us like an "old glove."

MarjV
March 31, 2006 - 01:14 pm
I think we got to know SH better thru his poems that reading a slew of bios only. Same with Hughes.

Jim in Jeff
March 31, 2006 - 06:44 pm
I too enjoyed "getting to know" Seamus. I'm richer for it...as are many of us, I hear you saying.

I also appreciate those who posted for me/us a few of his "lighter" poems. At first of month I'd thought him 100 percent serious. Turns out, he was fun, even in his predominately serious thoughts. These often evoked fun memories (or at least nostalgic memories) for me/us.

But as his month closes out for us here, I am moved to share some good clean Irish humour...seven short tales I got via email on St Pat's day. These do have one small "tie-in": the sixth tale's hero is named Seamus (yep, and it came to me just that way).

But HUMOUR isn't always appropriate to everyone's day. Serious personal troubles do occur in our lives. So this is just an OPTIONAL click-on link...for those who right now have time and inclination: Seven short Irish Tales.

P.S. - Who's Mary Oliver? I look forward to meeting her first time in April.

annafair
March 31, 2006 - 10:24 pm
Jim had to read those jokes....in honor of my Little Grandma Kate Hannigan ....thanks so much just the right touch on the first of April and April Fool's Day....so be careful of any stories people tell today.

It is 12:15AM April 1 2006 and I have waited to post this poem by Mary Oliver. The professor who led my first poetry class told us to buy her book, I didnt but through my computer I read her poetry and could see why she chose Mary Oliver..Like our last two poets she writes about the many things that touched her , and takes joy in the simple ones that all of us can relate to.

Since Dawn is my favorite time of day. I chose the following poem ..It is a promise and it is early dawn I love best, before traffic fills the road, before the smell of my neighbors coffee reaches me,before the birds have awakened. It is my time when I feel nearest to God and to life. anna

Why I Wake Early


Hello, sun in my face.
Hello, you who made the morning
and spread it over the fields
and into the faces of the tulips
and the nodding morning glories,
and into the windows of, even, the
miserable and the crotchety –
best preacher that ever was,
dear star, that just happens
to be where you are in the universe
to keep us from ever-darkness,
to ease us with warm touching,
to hold us in the great hands of light –
good morning, good morning, good morning.
Watch, now, how I start the day
in happiness, in kindness.


Mary Oliver

Hats
April 1, 2006 - 01:34 am
Anna,

Excuse me for backing up to Jim in Jeff. Thank you for the last link. Humour always is good medicine.

I can't wait to start our new journey, Mary Oliver. I met her here in the Poetry Corner. Othewise, she is a new poet for me.

Hats
April 1, 2006 - 02:00 am
Anna,

Thank you for starting us off with such a beautiful poem by Mary Oliver. This is going to be a fantastic journey.

By the way, "Good morning."

MarjV
April 1, 2006 - 07:27 am
Good Day to "fellow" pilgrims on our April journey. I like that whole poem. These lines are especially neat from the poem Anna posted.

and into the windows of, even, the 
miserable and the crotchety –  
best preacher that ever was,
 

What a sense of humor she has, among all other things
 

 The morning light sure does hold us.   And my kittys -
 
they are usually up at the crack of dawn, excited about what
 
they will see.

MrsSherlock
April 1, 2006 - 08:06 am
Good morning, all.

MarjV
April 1, 2006 - 10:15 am
Interview with Mary Oliver

Scrawler
April 1, 2006 - 11:10 am
Speaking of humor - I just won a "zillon" dollars in the local lotto - bought a Greek island and I'm moving there to be "alone" like Garbo without TV, radio, and the Internet - just kidding - April Fool's Day!

Bone Poem:

The litter under the tree
Where the owl eats - shrapnel

Of rat bones, gull debris -
Sinks into the wet leaves

Where time stirs with her slow spoon
Where "we" becomes singular, and a quickening

From light-years away
Saves and maintains. O holy

Protein, o hallowed lime
O precious clay!

Tossed under the tree
The cracked bones

Of the owl's most recent feast
Lean like shipwreck, starting

The long fall back to teh center -
The seepage, teh flowing,

The equity: sooner or later
In the shimmering leaves

The rat will learn to fly, the owl
Will be devoured.

~ Mary Oliver (Twelve Moons)

I picked this poem for no other reason than my first poem with Seamus Heaney was "Bone Dreams" and to me this poem seems almost like a dream - a dream that if only in our imagination the rat will learn to fly and get away from the owl and in the end it is the owl who will be devoured. She uses "strange" words like - shrapnel, slow spoon or hallowed lime. There is also a reality about her poem as in "the equity: sooner or later/in the shimmering leaves."

MarjV
April 1, 2006 - 12:49 pm
And "equity" meaning:" 1 a : justice according to natural law or right" fits right in with those vivid last 4 lines.

What a way to describe decomposition,the elements of all things returning to earth. Much more enticing to me than reading a prose description of decomp.

Good one, Scrawler.

MarjV
April 1, 2006 - 12:53 pm
I chose this one because of my love for reading and I know you all are the same. And how we are changed - and make leanings - by each idea we devour. Isn't this a marvel!!!

An Afternoon In The Stacks



Closing the book, I find I have left my head 
inside. It is dark in here, but the chapters open 
their beautiful spaces and give a rustling sound, 
words adjusting themselves to their meaning. 
Long passages open at successive pages. An echo, 
continuous from the title onward, hums 
behind me. From in here, the world looms, 
a jungle redeemed by these linked sentences 
carved out when an author traveled and a reader 
kept the way open. When this book ends 
I will pull it inside-out like a sock 
and throw it back in the library. But the rumor 
of it will haunt all that follows in my life. 
A candleflame in Tibet leans when I move 
 

~Mary Oliver

Jim in Jeff
April 1, 2006 - 04:39 pm
She seems often attuned to nature...which resembles my whole life as a kid growing up on a mid-Missouri Ozarks farm.

Thanks, MarjV, for your link to that M.O. interview. It covered a lot, all of it of interest.

That interview pointed me to read her "Picking Blueberries, Austerlitz, New York, 1957," a poem for which I feel a personal kinship. Her startled deer recalled my similar encounter with a wolf...while walking my rabbit traps one frosty morn in...1948. Thanks to our Lord's blessings, that wolf turned and ran just before this 12-yr-old kid showed him MY tail.

Picking Blueberries, Austerlitz, New York, 1957

Once, in summer
in the blueberries,
I fell asleep, and woke
when a deer stumbled against me.

I guess
she was so busy with her own happiness
she had grown careless
and was just wandering along

listening
to the wind as she leaned down
to lip up the sweetness.
So, there we were

with nothing between us
but a few leaves, and wind’s
glossy voice
shouting instructions.

The deer
backed away finally
and flung up her white tail
and went floating off toward the trees -

but the moment she did that
was so wide and so deep
it has lasted to this day;
I have only to think of her -

the flower of her amazement
and the stalled breath of her curiosity,
and even the damp touch of her solicitude
before she took flight -

to be absent again from this world
and alive, again, in another
for thirty years
sleepy and amazed,

rising out of the rough weeds
listening and looking.
Beautiful girl,
where are you?

In the interview supplied by MarjV, Mary Oliver explains that that ending was HER in her little-girl years...and specifiying gender was for her a rare thing. She wants her poems to be felt equally by all readers, irrespective of gender.

As many here know, Mary Oliver is a lesbian. But privately; not an activist. Her poems seem to me of universal interest to us all.

Hats
April 2, 2006 - 07:04 am
Wow! I love Mary Oliver's poems too. She's a keeper and a winner. Thank you MarJV, Scrawler and Jim in Jeff for each poem. I loved each one. I am looking forward to reading those posted poems again and again.

MarjV,

Thank you very much for interview. It just adds an extra touch.

MarjV
April 2, 2006 - 07:28 am
"Blueberries" is beautiful. Have no other words for it at this moment.

I was thinking it could also be read as a dream sequence. Doesn't she just capture the total mood of the setting!!!!

Hats
April 2, 2006 - 07:36 am
The Old Poets of China

Wherever I am, the world comes after me.
It offers me its busyness. It does not believe
that I do not want it. Now I understand
why the old poets of China went so far and high
into the mountains, then crept into the pale mist.


Mary Oliver

Why is it so difficult to find a moment of solitude? It's so much easier to be busy, busy, busy: the car needs washing, the dress needs to go to the cleaner, the beds need making, etc. I think if we allow it, busyness can control us. Solitude seems quiet, subdued, as if content with itself. It doesn't beg for our attention or force its way in our faces. As I grow older, I find a need for the high mountains of stillness and quiet. It is an important part of my day. Without it I am discombobulated, all on edge. Solitude is an important gift. I must not forget to open it each day.

annafair
April 2, 2006 - 08:24 am
And more important what thoughtful and insightful comments you are sharing. I have only lurked for the past 24 hours as I think I had a bug that has been going around and it finally found me. I am so pleased you are finding Mary Oliver as good as I knew she was.

Her poetry just picks me up and puts me down some place where I need to be. Solitude has both its rewards and its punishment. As an only girl in a family of 5 boys I had a lot of solitude but still it was'nt lonely because all about me were the sounds of family. I used the late hours alone reading, writing , putting my thoughs into words or just thinking Which is a great gift. But now as a widow I find myself with too much solitude I miss the background sounds of family, of loved ones, of voices no longer here.

Mary Oliver writes with passion and recognizes it in herself and helps us to recognize it in ourselves.And she lets us know if we have doubts it is a fine thing to feel. I chose a poem today for lots of reasons and hope you see what I see ...anna

Blossom
 

In April
 
the ponds open 
like black blossoms, 
the moon 
swims in every one; 
there’s fire 
everywhere: frogs shouting 
their desire,  
their satisfaction. What 
we know: that time 
chops at us all like an iron 
hoe, that death 
is a state of paralysis. What 
we long for: joy 
before death, nights  
in the swale - everything else 
can wait but not 
this thrust 
from the root 
of the body. What 
we know: we are more 
than blood - we are more 
than our hunger and yet 
we belong 
to the moon and when the ponds 
open, when the burning 
begins the most 
thoughtful among us dreams 
of hurrying down 
into the black petals 
into the fire, 
into the night where time lies shattered 
into the body of another.
 

Mary Oliver

MrsSherlock
April 2, 2006 - 09:22 am
When I read Blueberries, I pictured the "beautiful girl" as the deer. And it feels better to me than to think of it that way. Curious.

MarjV
April 2, 2006 - 10:06 am
HI Mrs. S - precisely why I love the comments. We feel large or small variations from how we are and how the peom affects us this day. Might even have a day or a poem that seems to not say anything, just words.

MarjV
April 2, 2006 - 10:16 am
Exactly the same with me , Hats. I get completely out of gear with the world's busyness. Like the two days I was organizing and getting a new vehicle. Lots of times I keep the radio on because the kittys are disturbed when there is sudden noise; but I'd rather not have it playing so much.

- - - - - - - -

What a line in "Blossom" about frogs shouting their desire! If you have ever experienced a spring/early summer night near a froggy area you know exactly what that is. I can bring it into my sound memory as I'm thinking about the frog songs.

We sure do have that grain of hope that thrusts from the root of our body. That sure , sometimes granular, element of hope and joy.

~Marj

Scrawler
April 2, 2006 - 11:21 am
What great posts - solitude - berries - books - all things and places I can relate to and I think that this is why I like Mary Oliver's poems - I can relate to them on a "gentler" level than I did Heaney's poems. There message clear and gently swimming on the surface; you don't have to dive to deep to catch their drift.

Stone Poem:

Most are standing,
Flat, like tongues,
Still full of poems, and back-fence gossip.

Some are ponderous, pressed
To the earth, the length of bones
Good-bye, they say. Good riddance.

A few are ornate, piled
And coniced,like little houses
For rich men sleeping.

Here and there a lamb
Of granite lifts its granite
Eyes above the grass.

~ Mary Oliver

Okay! Maybe I spoke to soon. I'll take a crack at this one although I might have to dive further than I thought. I think Mary is comparing poems to stones. There are lots of stones and poems to be found and we like them for many reasons, but only a few are truly "great" and those are the ones [poems and stones] that "lifts granite eyes above the grass".

Jim in Jeff
April 2, 2006 - 06:02 pm
ALL: Thanks for ack'ing my Mary Oliver's "Blueberries" poem...a nostalgic one evoking several early farm-kid memories for me.

MarjV, YES. Blueberries could also be seen as a "dream sequence." I'm reminded of Debussy's "Prelude in the afternoon of a faun," a musical tone poem written to evoke "dream images" of an (already horny?) faun. As a kid I accidentally got to see on b/w early TV a film of great dancer Nijinsky doing Debussy's piece (choreographed by Serge de Diaghilev)...filmed in 1912, I think.

Hats, your "Old Poets of China" reminds me so much of my own childhood solitude...growing up in mid-Missouri woods. I'd sometimes sit all day at a "den tree," awaiting a chance to provide "meat on our table" that night. Lots of "thinking time" for me in our woods there then.

Anna, "Blossoms" is a spot-on onderful image of early-April.

Mrs Sherlock, I too first thought "beautiful girl" was maybe the refering to the doe. Except that M.O. in her interview said it was herself, looking back at herself...all little girls being "beautiful"...by definition.

Scrawler, I too puzzle at M.O.'s "Stone Poem." I think you've gotten it right. She is equating stones in gardens with poems. As MarjV observed, there could be other equally-valid meanings too.

Someone once said, even "Moby Dick" is (at one basic level), a darned good FISH STORY. Melville's masterpiece has OTHER levels of enjoyment for us too though, of course. Same with a good poem...such as M.O.'s "Stone Poem."

MarjV
April 3, 2006 - 05:25 am
Many types of stones- many types of people I really like that on my third reading.

It's like she takes us on a magnifiying glass journey. "Come see what I see; here what I hear".

We sure will be looking at nature's gifts in newer and deeper ways after this month----I am always ready to see more. Even in the city we can "see" and "hear" more.

Hats
April 3, 2006 - 05:46 am
Good morning Anna and all,

MarjV, nature's beauty is all around us. It's just a matter of having eyes and heart open and being ready to receive these precious gifts. I think this poem fits your comments and fits the poems of Scrawler and Jim in Jeff.

There are about four bright red cardinals close to where I live. One comes beside our bedroom window every morning about four o'clock and chirps his heart out. We call him our alarm clock. It drives Boots bananas. She rushes inside the window. I think they like one another.

Indian Pipes

I found them at last, on a hillside
Of laurel and pine, nobbing
From the brown earth with white bowls,
Tender: so wild, so close to home.


The longer I live the more I sense
Wilderness approaching; I used to walk
miles to find wild things; now they find me,
Blossom under the very windows where
I am busy being grown up and tame.


I think it is more than chance, I think
It is a new kind of vision I have,
That a child, who must put wild things
In a mile by itself, could not bear.
I wake, wrapped in the town, knowing


The edges were only in my mind: all's one.
Indian pipes glisten, inches away.
While patience, charity rub at the cold frontier,
The seeds to everything drive through the air.

Mary Oliver

I am not sure of ever seeing an Indian Pipe. I love flowers. So, I just wondered about the colors of an Indian Pipe.

Hats
April 3, 2006 - 05:55 am
Indian Pipe

MarjV
April 3, 2006 - 06:17 am
Yup, Mary Oliver has it just right- a new kind of vision - as she says in that poem helps her see .

I have seen the Indian Pipes in my life - they are enchanting and rather haunting at the same time. That's a good link, Hats.

From a website:

There is a great story about Indian Pipes told by Mary Chiltosky in the book, Cherokee Plants...

"Before selfishness came into the world-that was a long time ago- the Cherokee people were happy sharing the hunting and fishing places with their neighbors. All this changed when Selfishness came into the world and man began to quarrel. The Cherokee quarreled with tribes on the east. Finally the chiefs of several tribes met in council to try to settle the dispute. They smoked the pipe and continued to quarrel for seven days and seven nights. This displeased the Great Spirit because people are not supposed to smoke the pipe until they make peace. As he looked upon the old men with heads bowed, he decided to do something to remind people to smoke the pipe only at the time they make peace."

"The Great Spirit turned the old men into greyish flowers we now call "Indian Pipes" and he made them grow where friends and relatives have quarreled. He made the smoke hang over these mountains until all the people all over the world learn to live together in peace."

Indian Pipe root has been traditionally used as a sedative and for various nervous conditions. It was also used externally for inflamed eyes and bunions and warts. Water extracts are bactericidal. WARNING- Safety is undetermined and it is possibly toxic as it contains several glycosides.

Hats
April 3, 2006 - 06:19 am
MarjV, thanks! What a beautiful story and one to think about too.

MarjV
April 3, 2006 - 06:24 am
Mary talks about her "work" theory in the heading link so I chose her poem "Work"

She says: "Yes, but I don't see how you can separate the pleasure from the work. There is nothing better than work. Work is also play, children know that. Children play earnestly as if it were work. But people grow up, and they work with a sorrow upon them. It's duty. But I feel writing is work, and I feel it's also play - bound together."

Work

How beautiful
this morning
was Pasture Pond.

It had lain in the dark, all night,
catching the rain

on its broad back.
All day I work
with the linen of words

and the pains of punctuation
all day I hang out
over a desk

grinding my teeth
staring.
Then I sleep,


Then I come out of the house,
even before the sun is up,
and walk back through the pinewoods
at Pasture Pond.

~Mary Oliver,from White Pine collection

Hats
April 3, 2006 - 06:27 am
Work is satisfying. I need to find in pleasure it too. I would love to write. MarjV, do you write poems? Your writing here is very good.

MarjV
April 3, 2006 - 07:41 am
I don't. I used to try years ago and then for some reason stopped. I encourage you to give it a try Ms Hats!!!!

I think we use our creative juices in whichever way it leads us.

MrsSherlock
April 3, 2006 - 07:45 am
Semantics is so important; work and labor seem to mean the same, but work is unpleasant while labor is something I would do no matter what. So writing to a writer is labor; filing records in an office is work. Perhaps it is the nature of the reward - self satisfaction at the creation of a new arrangement of words vs. clearing the desk/decks. She does make me think!

Scrawler
April 3, 2006 - 12:18 pm
I loved the story about the "Indian Pipes." My husband smoked an Indian Pipe when we went back to New Mexico. Only the men of the tribe could smoke the Peace Pipe. I also loved the poems.

If you want to write poems or stories, I suggest that you start a journal. It doesn't have to be anything fancy - I keep several pads everywhere and carry several in my purse and jot down "things" as they meander through my cob webbed brain. Than at some point [usually when they are falling to pieces] I catalog them, type them out, and put them in binders for safe keeping. Lately, I've been trying to save them directly into my computer - but I'm an old-fashioned girl who learned to write on Big Yellow Legal pads and as they say its hard for an Old Leopard to change her spots!

Spring

In April the Morgan was bred. I was chased away,
I heard the cries of the horses where I waited,
and the laughter of the men.

Later the farmer who owned the stallion
Found me and said, "She's done."
You tell your daddy he owes me fifty dollars."

I rode her home at her leisure
And let her, wherever she wanted,
Tear with her huge teeth, roughly,

Blades from the fields of spring.



~Mary Oliver [Twelve Moons]

Being a city girl I never witnessed the "birthing." But my husband who was raised on a ranch [his father bred horses for the rodeo] would make my husband help with the "birthing." He wasn't much of a farmer; he preferred to draw the landscape rather than people and the animals.

Hats
April 3, 2006 - 12:22 pm
Scrawler,

Thank you for all the writing tips. I would have to use pen and paper too. It will take awhile before I can write one sentence.

I like the poem "Spring." I am a city girl too. I remember riding a horse or pony at the zoo. I think horses are so gentle and graceful too.

MarjV
April 3, 2006 - 01:21 pm
I like yellow pads. Used to scribble ideas in them. Maybe I'll start again. Just for my own use. Not sentences- just ideas. Thanks Scrawler for reminding me of the yellow pads. In fact, I would buy yellow paper notebooks. I don't see them now.

~Marj

Jim in Jeff
April 3, 2006 - 06:58 pm
Today I'm going to try to describe Mary's "One or Two Things" poem published in her 1986 "Dream Work" volume of poems. I'm right now unable to understand all its nooks and corners. But "I know what I like when I see it," someone once said.

It's been set to song recently (its 3rd verse anyway). Here's a link to that webpage: http://www.panhala.net/Archive/One_or_Two_Things.html

However, I thought MO's FULL poem says even more than just its poignant third verse. Here's the full poem by Mary Oliver:

One or Two Things

1.

Don't bother me.
I've just
been born.

2.

The butterfly's loping flight
carries it through the country of the leaves
delicately, and well enough to get it
where it wants to go, wherever that is, stopping
here and there to fuzzle the damp throats
of flowers and the black mud; up
and down it swings, frenzied and aimless; and sometimes

for long delicious moments it is perfectly
lazy, riding motionless in the breeze on the soft stalk
of some ordinary flower.

3.

The god of dirt
came up to me many times and said
so many wise and delectable things, I lay
on the grass listening
to his dog voice,
crow voice,
frog voice; now,
he said, and now,

and never once mentioned forever,

4.

which has nevertheless always been,
like a sharp iron hoof,
at the center of my mind.

5.

One or two things are all you need
to travel over the blue pond, over the deep
roughage of the trees and through the stiff
flowers of lightning--some deep
memory of pleasure, some cutting
knowledge of pain.

6.

But to lift the hoof!
For that you need
an idea.

7.

For years and years I struggled
just to love my life. And then

the butterfly
rose, weightless, in the wind.
"Don't love your life
too much," it said,

and vanished
into the world.

Maybe others here have helpful thoughts about this poem's several meanings too...I hope.

annafair
April 3, 2006 - 09:08 pm
Weekends seem made for doing and since the weather was warm but not hot yet although the temperature was in the 70's I cleared outleaves, and emptied the soil from the summer pots, washed them with the hose and cleaned the bird's bath and thier feeders and today we had the threat of severe thunderstorms and tornados We did have the thunderstorm but it was mild compared to the prediction so I was able to just be quiet .and read from my three books of MO's poems..And I had a dilemna I would read a poem and say Ah I will share this one , but another would say But you like me too and so on ..now I have decided to just open my book and wherever it sort of stops ( unless you have already used the poem of I have) and just type it up and share it will you. Funny some of the poems shared were ones I considered too, And Jim I loved the one you chose but I wasnt sure how I wanted to share it ..the whole as you did or the separate small jewels.?Jim NO 7 says to me dont love your life too much but enjoy what you have.. Butterflies have a short life span of course they have several they are larva and eggs and butterfly Is that the right order? My one daugther who is very talented and has been very fortunate to have excellent jobs that used her talents and still does . sometimes I think she forgets to just enjoy life ..She loves being busy,.being promoted and making money and all the things that the money can buy but I feel sometimes she isnt stopping to smell the roses. I would like to tell her Dont love "this " life too much...

anyway here is the poem my book opened to ..anna PS I love the last line especially

Song Of the Builders

On a summer morning
I sat down
on a hillside
to think about God

a worthy pastime.
Near me , I saw
a single cricket:
it was moving the grains of the hillside

this way and that way
How great was its energy,
how humble is effort.
Let us hope

it will always be like this,
each of us going on
in our inexplicable ways
building the universe.


Mary Oliver

annafair
April 3, 2006 - 09:19 pm
Hats you already express yourself so well all you need do is put your thoughts on paper or in your word processor. I have written poems on the back of old envelopes or scrap paper or whatever I had handy if I didnt have a proper notebook and I have written story lines and stories .. often I just do whatever comes to mind and then go back , sometimes much later and edit what I have written or used what I have written as a base to write what I considerd the finished product. And once you do this you find the world is different than before ..every blade of grass suddenly looks different , your mind just begins to SEE things you failed to notice before and it is the best gift you can give yourself, SO give yourself this gift and dont delay ..use anything handy and just allow yourself to SEE and FEEL what you find..and then share it with everyone and especially us .. smiling at you across the miles..anna

annafair
April 4, 2006 - 03:10 am
So I was reading my book and decided that today I need to be busy and perhaps I should post another poem ...here it is and timely since it is April and spring..and the birds are feeding in my backyard and nesting in the tall old trees ..anna

Such Singing in the Wild Branches
It was spring
and finally I heard him
among the first leaves -
then I saw him clutching the limb
in an island of shade
with his red-brown feathers
all trim and neat for the new year.
First, I stood still
and thought of nothing.
Then I began to listen.
Then I was filled with gladness -
and that's when it happened,
when I seemed to float,
to be, myself, a wing or a tree -
and I began to understand
what the bird was saying,
and the sands in the glass
stopped
for a pure white moment
while gravity sprinkled upward
like rain, rising,
and in fact
it became difficult to tell just what it was that was singing -
it was the thrush for sure, but it seemed
not a single thrush, but himself, and all his brothers,
and also the trees around them,
as well as the gliding, long-tailed clouds
in the perfectly blue sky - all, all of them
were singing.
And, of course, yes, so it seemed,
so was I.
Such soft and solemn and perfect music doesn't last
for more than a few moments.
It's one of those magical places wise people
like to talk about.
One of the things they say about it, that is true,
is that, once you've been there,
you're there forever.
Listen, everyone has a chance.
Is it spring, is it morning?
Are there trees near you,
and does your own soul need comforting?
Quick, then - open the door and fly on your heavy feet; the song
may already be drifting away.


Mary Oliver

JoanK
April 4, 2006 - 03:59 am
Lovely. I can't sleep either, and it is just dawn. A bird is singing, but not a thrush. The thrushes that nest in my yard sing at evening, at that time of day when everything is quiet and still before sunset and the world seems to stop. They have given me many moments like that Oliver describes.

MarjV
April 4, 2006 - 05:14 am
COMMENTS

POST#367 - "ONE OR TWO THINGS": Jeff, I could probably go on for a week thinking and writing responses to that poem. I like it. I often watch butterflys in my yard when they are there. Sometimes they sit still and let me very close. She describes their nectar hunt as "stopping here and there to fuzzle the damp throats of flowers ". Now that is an interesting word - fuzzle. The dict def. is: to make drunk; to intoxicate; ( additionally, to fuddle can be a state of confusion or intoxication such as befuddle). Wow! What a description of one of the buttfly's jobs. And we fuzzle, for one thing, when we dig into a poem like this.

See- I said we could go on a week about this and I only commented partially on verse 2.

And there is the rest of this poem and two more posted after it and this is my morning at the library. Talk about frustrated fuzzling.

Hats
April 4, 2006 - 05:16 am
Anna,

Thank you so much for the encouragement. I will remember it everyday. Your words are very special to me. I hope this is not getting to mushy.

MarjV
April 4, 2006 - 05:38 am
Had two more quick thoughts.

Anna & JoanK- you could pen a poem about the very tediousness of sleepless hours.. Or something on that order.

And Books could have an "All Night Cafe" where people could visit when that wakefulness time comes.

Hats
April 4, 2006 - 06:02 am
There are so many good posts. I haven't read all of the posts. I want to take my time reading the poems and comments.

Jim in Jeff, I did read "One and Two." The motion of the butterfly moved me. I could just see the movements of a butterfly slowly flittering through the air and landing gently on a pot of flowers. I enjoyed this poem very much.

Hats
April 4, 2006 - 06:29 am
"Song of the Builders" by Mary Oliver

Anna, I love this one too. I thought about posting it too. The last lines speak to my heart too. It is a very uplifting poem. It makes me keep in mind how much we can learn from the small creatures of nature.

annafair
April 4, 2006 - 07:31 am
I did pen a poem because sleep just wouldnt come. I think the waiting until nearly midnight for the promised storms kept me too alert and it was hard to settle down, The sunroom is where I waited and watched the lighting progress until it was over my house and it lit the backyard, My dog stood at the windows and watched with me.The security light showed the wind shaking the trees and beating against the bushes near ..anyway I am going to share that poem because I know you all will be kind ..anna

It was early September 1972
we had only been in the house since July
each time I looked outside
I saw the trees, ancient and old
They had been here for a long time
And the birds feeding on the seed
thrown on the ground and
the squirrels leaping gracefully
from limb to limb
and I said You know I have
always wanted a sun porch
And my husband said Then
I think you should have it
and he called a company that
did additions and the bank said
we could borrow enough money
3,000 dollars to build
a 16x16 sunroom and so by October
we could sit there and listen to
acorns raining down
to the wind promising us
an early winter
and the leaves a kaleidoscope
of colors making their patchwork
on the ground
almost thirty-five years later
the sunroom holds memories
ghosts , whispers , people
no longer here
alone I look from the windows
see the seasons change
the birds , the squirrels still there
thank you for
saying I should have a sunroom
to cheer me
is that your voice ?
or the wind whispering
you’re welcome my dear.


anna alexander April 4, 2006©

MrsSherlock
April 4, 2006 - 07:37 am
Anna, I can see it all, you, your dog, the trees shaking their heads, the lightening. I am in awe.

Hats
April 4, 2006 - 08:09 am
Anna,

I agree with Mrs. Sherlock. Your words are a picture of the sights and sounds and feelings about the sunroom. Thank you for sharing your sunroom with us.

MarjV
April 4, 2006 - 10:17 am
Oh Anna, that was truly good to read. I feel like I was sitting there. And what a gift that you were able to stay in that home these years.

MarjV
April 4, 2006 - 10:24 am
COMMENTS

#370"Such Singing......."

So much to say about it. Nature's song to me is especially loud at the changing of the seasons. I really do resonate with her line "does your own soul need comforting?" Yes, mine does today. And I think I will have a wind walk. I was grumbling to myself about going out in the cold and the wind & then reread this poem - so I need that wind walk. I know it is saying: let those thoughts go with the wind.

- - - - - -

Thinking I will print out these poems to keep - she has so many books out - this way we have our own "collection".

Scrawler
April 4, 2006 - 11:16 am
I get my Big Yellow Pads at Office Depot. They can be found in the back corner of the store under various cobwebs. You can also get small yellow pads - I use those for my purse and ones that are sticky that you can write on and than stick it on your Cat to remind you of what to do next. But I have to warn it annoys the Cat!

I loved all the poems you posted. There must be something in the air - I couldn't sleep either and when I got up this morning all the covers were on the floor, I was shivering, and my cat was nestled in the middle of this Big pile of covers.

Bats:

In the blue air
the bats float
touching no leaf

Science
has shown how they capture
their prey -

moths, mosquitoes - in
the middle of flight
in the fold of a wing,<p. and how they hang
by the millions,
socially, in caves

But in the night
still comes
the unexplained figure

slipping in and out
of bedrooms, in and out
the soft throats of women.

For sience is only
the golden boat
on the dark river

such fur on the cheeks, such teeth
of blood, where women dream
behind the kiss.

~Mary Oliver (Twelve Moons)

I love vampires and bats! Ah! Where is Bela when you need him. I bet we'd all be sleeping if we'd been kissed by a vampire. Than again, maybe not. According to legend vampires sleep during the day and than wonder the dark streets at night looking for someone to bite. I love that one stanza:

and how they hang
by the millions,
socially, in caves



We humans should be so socialable.

MarjV
April 4, 2006 - 01:09 pm
I laughed so hard at that picture of kitty on the pile of blankets and you shivering in a bare bed, Scrawler. Now if she was doing her job correctly she would have patted you to let you know the blankets were falling off. LOL

I didn't sleep my usual deep sleep last night either.

The ending to that poem definitely has a vampirish feeling. Shivers!

I just recently saw a bat nature program and was fascinated by the bats hanging--- "socially" as MO tells us. Neat line.

MarjV
April 4, 2006 - 01:13 pm
A page to enjoy - a MO poem with music background.

Gratitude

Hats
April 4, 2006 - 02:08 pm
Scrawler,

"Bats" is a different type of poem for the spring. Seriously, I think you make a good point. The Bats can teach us about being more outgoing towards one another. It's really interesting the lessons we can learn from nature.

I loved your cat story too.

Hats
April 4, 2006 - 02:09 pm
MarjV,

What a beautiful link! thank you. I could enjoy "Gratitude" again and again. So much beauty in one poem. Mary Oliver is a special lady.

Alliemae
April 4, 2006 - 04:33 pm
I stopped by this past march 1 but then got involved in a book discussion.

In reading a few of Mary Oliver's poems I feel the same way I always feel when I read poetry that pleases me...humbled because they, the poets, know me it seems and I get what they are saying to my very depths...

and yet, such a poignant reality as I know I can never produce any thoughts as universal...

hope no one minds if I just stop by once in a while...

Latin is back in session so, who knows...but I feel Mary Oliver and you folks will be THE place to find my respite...

I'm really happy about the choice of poet.

Alliemae

Hats
April 5, 2006 - 12:27 am
Hi Alliemae,

I am glad to be with you again.

I am really enjoying this month with Mary Oliver too. My joy comes from reading and not writing. I find complete satisfaction in reading the words of others. Reading is just a terrific hobby for so many of us here at Seniornet. With other duties plus reading there isn't the time for anything else. I am completely satisfied with reading and posting here as my extracurricular activity. So, when I disappear at times, just to rest or to do some behind busy work, don't think I am in an attic writing.

Since reading is my first joy I look forward to hearing from more in house poets like Anna and Scrawler. Your words are much appreciated. Very soon I am going to post another poem by Mary Oliver. I have to decide which one. All of her poems are so wonderful.

annafair
April 5, 2006 - 06:58 am
Alliemae come when you can and you are not the first person who comes into this discussion because they find it a peaceful place ...once in awhile they post which is how I know this. THE WELCOME MAT IS ALWAYS OUT HERE...so come in and sit a spell , read the poems and the posts and I hope you will leave feeling better.

Hats I am sorry I am laughing at your quote " So, when I disappear at times, just to rest or to do some behind busy work, don't think I am in an attic writing." If you dont show up for awhile I am going to email you and say Leave your attic and come on in.!

Since books have always been my solace, my friends , Although I dont consider myself a lonely child I was a child who was alone with my thoughts and with my books, Each day of the long hot summers I would walk to the library and get the 3 books I was allowed. I would come home and sit in the quiet of the house or on the back porch or under the grape arbor in the back yard and READ. And when I married my husband was away a lot in the AirForce and the children were small so when nighttime came I would read! and it something I continue to do and I write in my spare time (WHO HAS SPARE TIME?) back later I have to decide what poem by MO I will share today .. I am so moved by all the decision is not an easy one is it ???anna

Hats
April 5, 2006 - 07:33 am

Hats
April 5, 2006 - 07:55 am
Next Time

Next time what I'd do is look at
the earth before saying anything. I'd stop
just before going into a house
and be an emperor for a minute
and listen better to the wind
or to the air being still.



When anyone talked to me, whether
blame or praise or just passing time,
I'd watch the face, how the mouth
has to work, and see any strain, any
sign of what lifted the voice.


And for all, I'd know more -- the earth
bracing itself and soaring, the air
finding every leaf and feather over
forest and water, and for every person
the body glowing inside the clothes
like a light.


Mary Oliver

Everything and everybody in life are worth appreciation. If I could wind back the time in my life, I would slow down, look around and observe. There are so many beautiful miracles to appreciate. Just looking at a baby uncurl his little fingers is so awesome. There is so much to appreciate and love. We have the chance at the Poetry Corner.

MarjV
April 5, 2006 - 08:57 am
You know - that is a wonderful reminder to really look at people when they are talking to you instead of just thinking about what you might reply.

Such a hurry-scurry social climate that the art of listening, whether to people or the earth , and looking for that matter, starts to get lost.

"and for every person the body glowing inside the clothes like a light. " Yup!

It is difficult to decide on a poem.

~Marj

Hats
April 5, 2006 - 09:05 am
MarjV,

Your comment helped me get even more out of the poem.

Scrawler
April 5, 2006 - 12:15 pm
You are so right, Hats. More and more I seem to be having conversations these day with more than one person when I thought I was only talking with one. People seem to be very impatient. They want to get on with it. They don't take the time to really listen to what you have to say. I want to say this happens with mostly young people, but unfortunately older people seem to be doing this to. Ah! If only we could turn back the clocks; but not to far - I don't want to be crawling around on all fours and I doubt that I could re-live the 50's or the 70s for that matter and I defintely don't want to re-live the 90s.

Aerialists

Aerialists know
doubt is the heavy thing. They know doubt is the stone, the flaw

named accident. The figure
whose body flows
over the rings of darkness

is the perfect believer.
He makes it look easy,
leaping from swing to swing,

shining - a white tendril
in the garden of blue air -
and safer than men on earth trudging,

fervent but irresolute,
their doubt always a dark itch,
over fields and roads.<p. ~ Mary Oliver

She's right you know "Aerialists" do make the perfect believer[s]! If only we could believe as if we were flying through the blue air with no safety net below.

Hats
April 5, 2006 - 12:20 pm
Scrawler,

Great poem and good comments too. If only...

Alliemae
April 5, 2006 - 01:05 pm
Yes, Scrawler, I agree!

Hats Great to see you again too!! Isn't this a lovely place...

annafair I couldn't think of a nicer nor a gentler welcome. Thank you...and thank you all for being here.

When I'm in this room I feel as though I were back on the farm in Massachusetts, watching the chickens and ducks and playing with the goat...I can smell the earth, and the rain on the sun-dried grass and taste the teaberry leaves and cold pumped water in tin measuring cups that we used to enjoy at our 'tea parties' in the treehouse my dad built for us.

Alliemae

MarjV
April 5, 2006 - 01:44 pm
Oh Alliemae - your last paragraph there is truly picturesque. Thanks.

Hats
April 5, 2006 - 01:45 pm
It is beautiful, Alliemae.

MarjV
April 5, 2006 - 01:51 pm
" Yes! No!"

How necessary it is to have opinions! I think the spotted trout lilies are satisfied, standing a few inches above the earth. I think serenity is not something you just find in the world, like a plum tree, holding up its white petals.

The violets, along the river, are opening their blue faces, like small dark lanterns.

The green mosses, being so many, are as good as brawny.

How important it is to walk along, not in haste but slowly, looking at everything and calling out

Yes! No! The

swan, for all his pomp, his robes of grass and petals, wants only to be allowed to live on the nameless pond. The catbrier is without fault. The water thrushes, down among the sloppy rocks, are going crazy with happiness. Imagination is better than a sharp instrument. To pay attention, this is our endless and proper work.

Mary Oliver

- - - - -

One of her prose poems here. I like how she gets across her thinking by using nature and telling us it is important to her and living beings to have opinions. And pay attention. And use our imagination.

How dull it would be to read an essay instructing us in this.

~Marj

annafair
April 5, 2006 - 03:36 pm
To nature reminds me of my youngest son who loved all things beautiful ..I can see him with his chin supported by his cupped hands , his elbows resting on the porch watching a caterpillar inching its way across the porch .When I asked what he was doing he said I am just watching my friend...another time he hurried in to show me a wooly caterpillar in August who was his friend..he never harmed them Just loved watching them If I hadnt learned to appreciate the things of nature my son opened my eyes them ...I am glad we went camping and carried our small cookstove on nice days to the picnic bench under the big tree in our back yard and ate breakfast ..Those are the times I remember best of all.anna

Hats
April 6, 2006 - 02:41 am
Anna,

Thank you for sharing a part of your son's personality. This quote about Mary Oliver's poetry reminds me of what you just wrote about your son, his love for observing nature.

"Mary Oliver's poetry is fine and deep; it reads like a blessing. Her special gift is to connect us with our sources in the natural world, its beauties and terrors and mysteries and consolations." — Stanley Kunitz

annafair
April 6, 2006 - 07:18 am
This poem reminded me of day last week, It was early morning and I returned to my bedroom for something and there on the white wall the sun had painted it liquid gold. I could'nt figure out how since the sun came in slanted there but it was breathtaking and so this poem spoke to me..anna

Morning Poem



Every morning
the world
is created.
Under the orange


sticks of the sun
the heaped
ashes of the night
turn into leaves again


and fasten themselves to the high branches ---
and the ponds appear
like black cloth
on which are painted islands


of summer lilies.
If it is your nature
to be happy
you will swim away along the soft trails


for hours, your imagination
alighting everywhere.
And if your spirit
carries within it


the thorn
that is heavier than lead ---
if it's all you can do
to keep on trudging ---


there is still
somewhere deep within you
a beast shouting that the earth
is exactly what it wanted ---


each pond with its blazing lilies
is a prayer heard and answered
lavishly,
every morning,


whether or not
you have ever dared to be happy,
whether or not
you have ever dared to pray.


Mary Oliver

Hats
April 6, 2006 - 07:49 am
Anna,

This is another beautiful Mary Oliver poem. No matter how we are feeling, nature always fits our mood. That is so good to know.

My mother was in the hospital one autumn. She would always tell how the beauty of the leaves, from her hospital window, soothed her and helped her get through surgery and all the rest of it.

Scrawler
April 6, 2006 - 10:46 am
What wonderful posts! It doesn't seem fair that the only time we really see nature is when we're to young or to old the rest of the time we: "spin, snap, and fly off" [into...who knows where."]

Last Days:

Things are
changing; things are starting to
spin, snap, fly off into
the blue sleeve of the long
afternoon. Oh and ooh
come whistling out of the perished mouth
of the grass, as things
turn soft, boil back
into substance and hue. As everything,
forgetting its own enchantment, whispers:
I too love oblivion why not it is full
of second chances. Now,
hiss the bright curls of the leaves. Now!
booms the muscle of the wind.

~ Mary Oliver

Now! The times they are a "changing." I can't be sure what season it is - we seem to "spin" to temperatures in the 70s to temperatures in the 30s here in Oregon. Than we "snap" into bright sunny days than only a few minutes later have it pour rain. And finally we fly with the "muscle of the wind" when only a few minutes ago we were stiffling in the heat. I haven't figured out what to wear yet. Maybe a layered look: a bathing suit under a light T-shirt and jeans, under a heavier sweater, under a raincoat and hat. Oh! Yeah, how about bare feet in heavy winter boots! That should do the trick!

Hats
April 6, 2006 - 01:00 pm
Scrawler,

I love those words in the poem: "Spin, snap, fly..." It gives me the impression time is a wasting.

I like the "the muscle of the wind" too.

"Spin, snap, fly also made me think of Rice Krispies cereal. Remember "snap, crackle, pop?" Weird thinking, I know.

MarjV
April 6, 2006 - 04:22 pm
Going backwards a bit - re the "Aerialists". Just couldn't get myself into that one. And I was wishing it was about spiders and how they aerial from one place to another making their fantastic webs.

!Marj

MrsSherlock
April 6, 2006 - 07:01 pm
Scrawler, we were at the coast, Newport & Yachats, yesterday, supposed to be sunny but it wasn't. Here in Salem today, think I heard thunder a while ago.Maybe we should carry more layers of clothing in our car emergency kits, since we can come home many hours after we leave.

Scrawler
April 7, 2006 - 12:04 pm
Marj I guess the poem could have been about spiders, but I don't see them as flying as much as spinning. I have a spider that has made himself a gorgious web right outside my back door. You can see it best at dawn and once again at sunset.

Raccoons:

Night after night
they travel toward dampness
the stones of the river,
the silky ponds,
and spread a text
over the banks of sand
shelving to water - all night
they wander through lillies
and weeds, meander
the black rims
of the midsummer flow-
then vanish at dawn, climbing
upland through brambles and into
the secret trees.
Oh when the night wind wakes
and the white moon
flies up through the thickets,
I imagine them walking,
silvery, slumberous,
each a sharp set of teeth,
each a gray dreamer, prowling
over the sands, arranging,
night after summer night,
the myths of the morning.



~ Mary Oliver

I miss my raccoons that I used to watch over at my last complex. I hope they all found good homes, since they made my complex a parking garage. They used to come to the back window and look in at me and my cat. They would put their hands together as if they were praying or begging. But they were great to watch especially in the early evenings when mom used to bring the kids down to the duck pond for supper.

Hats
April 7, 2006 - 12:18 pm
Scrawler,

I like some of the words in "Raccoons." I especially like "into the secret trees." Trees do seem to have secrets. Up high, in thick trees, the sky is almost hidden. It does make you think the trees are good hiding places for secrets. There are a lot of good lines in this one. "The myths of the morning" I like those words too. I just can't give a meaning or explanation for "myths of the morning." Is she talking about our lives as stories that will unfold during the day?

MrsSherlock
April 7, 2006 - 12:44 pm
Perhaps myths of the morning are the fantasies of the night just past? And the white moon does fly up when it first rises. I can never look at a tree or the moon the same way again. BTW, someone was recommending a novel by Ron Rash and I find he has also written several books of poetry. I shall report more later.

Hats
April 7, 2006 - 12:45 pm
Lilies

I have been thinking
about living
like the lilies
that blow in the fields.


They rise and fall
in the wedge of the wind,
and have no shelter
from the tongues of the cattle,


and have no closets or cupboards,
and have no legs.
Still I would like to be
as wonderful


as that old idea.
But if I were a lily
I think I would wait all day
for the green face


of the hummingbird
to touch me.
What I mean is,
could I forget myself


even in those feathery fields?
When van Gogh
preached to the poor
of course he wanted to save someone--
most of all himself.
He wasn't a lily,
and wandering through the bright fields
only gave him more ideas


It would take his life to solve.
I think I will always be lonely
in this world, where the cattle
graze like a black and white river--


where the ravishing lilies
melt, without protest, on their tongues--
where the hummingbird, whenever there is a fuss,
just rises and floats away.


Mary Oliver

I love flowers. I love Lilies too. I love the gentle spirit of flowers. Lilies and other flowers have a sense of freedom and a sense of security. The hummingbird also goes about so freely just sipping a drink from whatever is beautiful, never leaving an explanation behind.

Van Gogh's mind was so great, his life span and his illness didn't allow him to paint all the colors and sunflowers around him. This is what's hard about life, I guess. There is never enough time to fulfill all dreams. The worry about getting it all done causes the fragile petals of our life to fall away much quicker. It's better, for me, to strive to be a lily or a hummingbird. Maybe my life will last a bit longer. In the process, I will hold on to my sanity.

Hats
April 7, 2006 - 01:02 pm
lilies

Hats
April 7, 2006 - 01:04 pm
Mrs Sherlock,

I love it! "the fantasies of the night just past."

MarjV
April 7, 2006 - 01:55 pm
Oho! I like Mrs. S's idea also about the "fantasties of the night just past". I sure would take some fantasies over nightmares, thank you.

"Raccoons" is a good poem. She brought to life their movements. We used to go to a cottage where the coons were scooting around into the trash or a couple times climbed the screens smelling the food. I love their little hands.

And "Lilies"....Interesting line where Mary writes, "I think I shall always be lonely in this world...." Maybe lonely because beauty cannot be grasped and kept.

~Marj

Hats
April 7, 2006 - 02:46 pm
MarjV, good points!

KNUGURU
April 7, 2006 - 04:13 pm
There are strange things done in the midnight sun
By the men who moil for gold;
The Arctic trails have their secret tales
    That would make your blood run cold;
The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,
But the queerest they ever did see Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge
I cremated Sam McGee.

SPENDING SOME TIME WITH
"ROBERT W. SERVICE"
IS TIME WELL SPENT

One of my favoritesTHE SPELL OF THE YUKON <}};^)

MarjV
April 7, 2006 - 04:18 pm
I sure do second this point, Hats. I get caught in that worry net sometimes.

"This is what's hard about life, I guess. There is never enough time to fulfill all dreams. The worry about getting it all done causes the fragile petals of our life to fall away much quicker. It's better, for me, to strive to be a lily or a hummingbird. Maybe my life will last a bit longer. In the process, I will hold on to my sanity."

MrsSherlock
April 7, 2006 - 04:33 pm
I always have a smile on my face when I'm reading Robert Service.

MarjV
April 8, 2006 - 06:50 am
"Porcupine" [White Pine]

Where
the porcupine is
I don't
know but I hope

it's high
up on some pine
bough in some
thick tree, maybe

on the other side
of the swamp.
The dogs have come
running back, one of them

with a single quill
in his moist nose.
He's laughing,
not knowing what he has

almost done
to himself.
For years I have wanted to see
that slow rambler,

that thornbush.
I think, what love does to us
is a Gordian knot,
it's that complicated.

I hug the dogs
and their good luck,
and put on their leashes.
So dazzlineg she must be -

a plumb dark lady
wearing a gown of nails -
white teeth tearing skin
from the thick tree.

- - - - - I wanted to post this poem because I think porcs are so unusual but also because the term 'Gordian knot' intrigued me.

Here is what I found: The Gordian Knot is a legend associated with Alexander the Great. It is often used as a metaphor for an intractable problem, solved by a bold stroke ("cutting the Gordian knot").

MO is telling us how love entwines our whole being by using that term. And how it could be destroyed. I think.

Here's a link to more about the Gordian knot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_knot

Hats
April 8, 2006 - 06:56 am
Hi MarjV,

Thank you for the link and also explaining "Gordion knot." I could see the poor pup with one quill stuck in his nose. Boy, did he avoid some painful trouble. I love the last line describing the porcupine "wearing a gown of nails."

Thank you for your comment about love and Gordion knot.

Alliemae
April 8, 2006 - 09:48 am
As usual, Marj, you are 'living in my head'!! those lines hit me and I had to go back to see if I had changed poems...but no, there they were, right there with the porcupine! And I do agree about the Gordeon Knot and love...alas!

Hats...it's soooooo good to be in another discussion with you...and the picture of the Lily was, as my friends in England say, 'Brill'!!

Alliemae

Scrawler
April 8, 2006 - 11:29 am
I loved all your posts - flowers and animals really go together. Don't they? Yes, it does seem that nature has a way of going in and out of our lives like a "lover".

Flower Moon - How She Travels

She moves only by night and on a south wind.
The wild ducks are her envoys,

flying ahead,
scouting the ponds, summoning

turtles and dragonflies out of the beds
of roots and mud.

The wagon she hauls with her
is full of new leaves

which she sprinkles over the trees as she passes, crying out
the words necessary to birth;

and small fish
she shakes into ditches and streams;

and once I saw her
lift from her wagon the Flower Moon,

round full and milk-white
as a woman's breast,

and she kissed it,
she sang to it,

she tossed it high above the trees, then gave
another to the shining river.

~ Mary Oliver ["Twelve Moons"]

I liked this poem because of its free-flowing style. I can almost see the Flower Moon as "she" tosses it high above the trees, and then gave another to the shining river." The only part that I'm confused on is who is "she"? Is it the Flower Moon or could be nature?

Jim in Jeff
April 8, 2006 - 06:05 pm
Scrawler, I too puzzle tonight at just who is MO's "she." I need to "dope it out" some more. She first seems the moon...but later the poet watches that same "she" lift up the "flower moon."

So right now, I dunno. But that just helps make this poem a fun challenge for me/us.

For info about Native Americans' "12 full-moons" (including "Flower Moon"), click here.

The many great posts here move along a tad too fast for me to keep up, not being able to daily come here. I'm still back where Scrawler posted the "bats" poem and her (always relevant) thoughts about it.

Bats are fun peoples tho. Here's a bat...should any poor soul here DARE venture to click on my CACKLE: Heh, Heh, HA HA HA!

Alliemae
April 8, 2006 - 08:46 pm
Thanks, Jim, for the link about the Native American history of the Full Moons. I'm part Passamaquoddy from Maine but never knew this moon history.

Hi again Everybody! I find this Poetry 'Corner' such a sweet and fun and lovely place to stop by in the evening when I can. Thank you all for being here.

Tonight I so enjoyed "Flower Moon - How She Travels"...thank you, Scrawler.

When I was younger I used to celebrate the Full Moon every month, and especially I think they called it the 'Blue Moon' if there was a full moon twice in the same month...just a small celebration either with friends or even alone at home...I still do at times when I remember!! Ah, the Golden Years! Unfortunately, now I sometimes forget!!

Allilemae

MarjV
April 9, 2006 - 05:19 am
I'm thinking the "she" is the Month of May Nights or Late Spring Nights. Can't be the Flower Moon or she'd be throwing herself.

A Webpage on the Flower Moon

MarjV
April 9, 2006 - 05:25 am
That was a pretty cool bat, Jim!!! : )

MarjV
April 9, 2006 - 05:30 am
Or some type of nymph, spirit or sprite that MO created just because she like how it worked for that poem. Which I do like.

My two previous posts did not show up just now. Something is going on with the website because no oneo is posting at the same time.

MarjV
April 9, 2006 - 06:17 am
OR it could be the waxing moon who then throws the Flower Moon into the sky at the proper night.

Scrawler
April 9, 2006 - 09:47 am
Jim I love your Bat!

Sleeping in the Forest

I thought the earth
remembered me, she
took me back so tenderly, arranging
her dark skirts, her pockets
full of lichens and seeds. I slept
as never before, a stone
on the riverbed, nothing
between me and the white fire of the stars
but my thoughts, and they floated
light as moths among the branches
of the perfect trees. All night
I heard the small kingdoms breathing
around me, the insects, and the birds
who do their work in the darkness. All night
I rose and fell, as if in water, grappling
with a luminous doom. By morning
I had vanished at least a dozen times
into something better.

~ Mary Oliver

For the most part I like this poem - for its simplicity and because it reminds me of a slower, softer time when I lay on the grass and looked up at the stars. I suppose you might say that my "thoughts" floated like moths among the branches. But it is the last part of the poem that puzzles me: "By morning I had vanished at least a dozen times into something better." Anyone have any suggestions as to what this might mean?

annafair
April 9, 2006 - 10:17 am
Requires a mind able to think differently. MO personifies so many things and for some people of practical mind that is hard to understand. As a poet and writer one has to think "out of the box" ans "SEE" things differntly I am thinking of the The Flower Moon and after reading the links to the moons ( only three had I heard of before)I feel it is the moon itself that is being described ..she comes at night on the south wind (where most of the wind here comes from in May) the ducks have preceded her ( and here I see the wild ducks and geese near the ponds and the birds of summer have arrived) the trees are showing new leaves, small, diminutive and such a lovely shade of green, fresh and new..she lifts the Flower Moon which is the special moon of spring and hangs it in the sky and like I have seen in the pond near my home another moon is seen on its placid mirrored water. It is such a lovely poem ,. Serene and full of promises. I have to say for those to whom nature in all of her dresses MO's poems just feel like nature itself,

When the weekend comes I am always someplace else or have family in. Since they all work and the grandchildren are in school the weekends are "my" time with them. My 13 year old granddaughter celebrated her birthday ( how can she be only 13 and taller than me? Boggles my mind since I feel as nana I ought to be the taller LOL) and my 16 year old stepgrandaughter passed her drivers test and is now a licensed driver with a new car ..and I had to take her picture so she will remember this special day ..( took a picture of the 13 year old too)

This morning I opened my book and found a poem on spring ..and I see in my back yard the same scene MO writes about ..Oh yes I loved the poem about the racoons When I was a Girl Scout leader we went camping on a weekend and until then I had never seen a racoon myself. But while we were cooking in the dark a huge racoon , the great grand daddies of all racoons stayed just out the light from the campfire and watched us ..later he tried to open the garbage container ..and early in the morning we could see him fishing in the pond and bringing a fish to the surface . beavers did the same it was a wonderful time for all of us. I keep saying about every poet we share They speak to me but I think each speaks a different tongue but all speak to the heart and soul of the reader. anna

SPRING
All day the flicker
has anticipated
the lust of the season, by
shouting. He scouts up
tree after tree and at
a certain place begins,
to cry out, My, in his
black-freckled vest, bay body with
red trim and sudden chrome
underwings, he is
dapper. Of course somebody
listening nearby
hears him; she answers
with a sound like hysterical
laughter, and rushes out into
the field where he is poised
on an old phone pole, his head
swinging, his wings
opening and shutting in a kind of
butterfly stroke. She can't
resist; they touch; they flutter.
How lightly, altogetherm the accept
the great task, of carrying life
forward! In the crown of an oak
they choose a small tree cave
which they enter with sudden quietness
an modesty. And, for awhile,
the wind that can be
a knife or a hammer , subsides.
They listen
to the thrushes.
The sky is blue, or the rain
falls with its spills of pearl.
Around thier wreath of darkness
the leaves of the world unfurl.


Mary Oliver

Jim in Jeff
April 9, 2006 - 03:39 pm
My first thought is that MO's ""By morning I had vanished at least a dozen times into something better" reflects her night's many "luminous doom" dreams (while sleeping in a forest).

Hopefully, others here see more in this poem-ending than do Scrawler and me right now...?

Jim in Jeff
April 9, 2006 - 03:52 pm
I hear and appreciate those here who have posted that a good poet often describes familiar things in unfamiliar "outside the box" ways.

Mary Oliver's nature poems do just that for me. As do many of our Native-Americans' nature-poems. Mary Oliver is...AOK in my book.

Jim in Jeff
April 9, 2006 - 04:28 pm
This hopefully helps continue our Mary Oliver "nature-poems" thoughts here...a typical MO nature-poem titled:

Wild Geese:

You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert, repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.
Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air
are heading home again.
Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting--
over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.

-- MARY OLIVER, "DREAM WORK"

Isn't this just...lovely?

And yes, wild geese do honk overhead to us in seasonal migrations today. Good memories. Another memory of mine is an old movie seen when I was maybe ten: "Call of the Wild Goose." Theme-song by Frankie Laine was a top-ten hit then.

annafair
April 9, 2006 - 08:15 pm
Wow you and I remember so many of the same things I loved Frankie Laine his records were the first ones I bought when I updated our windup Victorla with the first money I earned and bought a Philco radio phonograph,.The phono part worked by a single door opening and the record part sliding out And I would listen to Frankie Laine for hours I still remember the lyrics to many of his songs ie That Lucky ole sun, Mamselle, A Sunday Kind of Love and the one you mentioned although it has been years since I thought of that one. I rememeber one line "I must go where the wild goose goes Wild goose brother goose which is best ? a wandering soul or a heart at rest?" Perhaps that is a question we all ask sooner or later,

Where we live now we are in the fly way where the geese and ducks mark the skies in fall and spring ..I live minutesa away from a pond and perhaps 10 minutes away from one of the largest city parks in the USA over 5,000 acres where the wild things come because they know they are safe.. Owls and hawks are near and while I dont hear them anymore I see them and of course I live near enough to the Atlantic that the gulls come in when there is a storm at sea .. sometimes we see a sea of them gathered and hunting for food. In the little ares of mud flats we often see herons and egrets,

So MO's poems resonate with me .. every one of them makes me nod my head in agreement and say Oh Yes I know what you mean. and each word added in the posts makes me know we all share these feelings ...now that is special ..anna

Hats
April 10, 2006 - 12:56 am
Anna,

I agree with you. I love MO. I am really enjoying this month with her.

Jim in Jeff,

Thank you for posting "Wild Geese." This is another poem where MO brings up the subject of loneliness. She also gives comfort. Her comforting words are our family is very big. Our family is all the nature around us. Nature speaks in squawks, chirps or jus allows its beauty to speak for itself. Somehow, on a beachfront, or watching a robin, a rainbow or just seeing a squirrel my loneliness disappears, my sadness disappears. I feel a giggle coming from somewhere or just a smile.

Hats
April 10, 2006 - 08:08 am
A Letter from Home

She sends me news of bluejays, frost,
Of stars and now the harvest moon
That rides above the stricken hills.
Lightly, she speaks of cold, of pain,
And lists what is already lost.
Here where my life seems hard and slow,
I read of glowing melons piled
Beside the door, and baskets filled
With fennel, rosemary and dill,
While all she could not gather in
Or hide in leaves, grows black and falls.
Here where my life seems hard and strange,
I read her wild excitement when
Stars climb, frost comes, and bluejays sing.
The broken year will make no change
Upon her wise and whirling heart;--
She knows how people always plan
To live their lives, and never do,
She will not tell me if she cries.

I touch the crosses by her name:
I fold the pages as I rise,
And tip the envelope, from which
Drift scraps of borage, woodbine, rue.




Mary Oliver

Mary Oliver's poems have been like wonderful letters this month. I am reminded of all the beauty around me. Even in this one about a letter written with care and love mentions bluejays, stars and melons. I love the part about the shreds of bark falling from the pages of the letter. I think it is a special gift to remember to encourage someone else. Someone feeling that life is "hard and strange."

This poem reminds me to stop prograstinating and try to grow an herb garden. Is it herb or herb? Martha Stewart says herb like you would pronounce the name of a boy or man.

annafair
April 10, 2006 - 08:25 am
What a lovely , wonderful poem ...I once sent an envelope of fall leaves to a friend in California . she had missed them so much when they moved from NE USA and when we were on Okinawa my oldest daughter who was remained in the states in college mailed me a letter full of fall leaves because she knew how much I missed them MO's poem reminds us to keep in touch and to go the extra mile ...Even now as easy as it is to send emails I try to send real letters once in awhile because to be honest a letter delivered to my mail box, in a loved and familiar hand warms me as nothing else can do,. I have the last letter my mother wrote, all the letters my husband wrote since the first one in the fall of 1949 and letters by brothers wrote when they were overseas in WWII to me they are treasures ...I love all of this poem now about herb or "urbs" I would say whatever you feel like saying To me there is something beautiful in local speech.. And to correct it would be a loss ..so I just smile when I hear them .. they are gifts ..so grow them and I am promising myself this year I too will have a herb garden,..Along with tomatoes the only vegetable I grow now But there is nothing like a real "love apple" vine ripe from my back yard...anna

Hats
April 10, 2006 - 08:36 am
Anna,

I have never thought of sending fall leaves in a letter. That's so nice. My mother loved to write letters. She also took great care with her handwriting too. While dating my husband I wrote letters. One time I bought some stationary with roses on the paper and the paper had the smell of roses. Now I would send him petals from a real rose.

MarjV
April 10, 2006 - 10:43 am
That beautiful poem of the friend reminded me that one fall I sent leaves to a young man who had moved from here to live in California. He liked it. I've also sent leaves on occasion to Tx where there is a different kind of fall.

Hats
April 10, 2006 - 10:51 am
MarjV,

I think that is so thoughtful.

MarjV
April 10, 2006 - 11:15 am
COMMENTS

"Spring".....that poem made me smile from the initial line about the flicker anticipating the lust of the season by shouting. And then the female answering with hysterical laughter. The ballad of the thrush couple I say.

And the ending line:"Around thier wreath of darkness the leaves of the world unfurl." Aren't we fortunate when we see or hear these special creatures. The sparrows are twitterpating all over the place. And the doves are most public with the courting.

"Sleeping in the Forest". I think the ending lines say that while she was "grappling witha luminous doom", in other words having nightmares, that they changed into pleaseant dreams of good things & times. Grapple : 1 a : the act or an instance of grappling b : a hand-to-hand struggle c : a contest for superiority or mastery. So in her contest of grappling with nightmares she was able to master them & bring about a different feeling. What a soft and simple time that was with her "thoughts" floating until each grappling session.

"Wild Geese". Hats is right I believe. The poem gives us a sense of how nature can reform our thoughts of lonliness - bring us to a sense of the interconnection of everything.

And if somewhat depressed it is uplifting-- you do not have to crawl on your knees- you can learn a reconnection thru nature to wholeness.

I have a copy of MO's Poetry Handbook from the library. It's easy reading and gives her thoughts on how to teach/learn the creating of poetry.

Hats
April 10, 2006 - 11:30 am
MarjV,

That is the one book I did not check out from the library. I will check it out from the library next time.

Scrawler
April 10, 2006 - 12:03 pm
So many wonderful poems and warm memories. Thank you all for sharing. Jim and Marj I think you all "hit the nail on the head" - the Forest poem was about "nightmares and dreams". Thanks.

Entering the Kingdom:

The crows see me.
They stretch their glossy necks
In the tallest branches
Of green trees. I am
Possibly dangerous, I am
Entering the kingdom.

The dream of my life
Is to lie down by a slow river
And stare at the light in the trees-
To learn something by being nothing
A little while but the rich
Lens of attention.

But the crows puff their feathers and cry
Between me and the sun,
And I should go now.
They know me for what I am.
No dreamer,
No eater of leaves.

~ Mary Oliver

I love this poem. It has both a sweetness and sadness about it. I too would like to lie by a "slow river and do nothing." But than I am sure the animals including the birds and especially the crows would remind me of who I really am - no dreamer and no eater of leaves. In other words not one of them. [Incidently, the crows around here are really BIG. I had one on the top of my car the other day that wouldn't get off even after I started the car and backed it out of the over-hanging. It hung on until I turned the corner and than flew off crying. I can't imagine what my neighbors think of me!]

MrsSherlock
April 10, 2006 - 12:10 pm
Mary Oliver's poetry is gentle and reflective but lacks that visceral connection that Seamus Heaney's poems had for me. Paul Dumbar's poems got me in the gut. Langston Hughes were more cerebral. Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't.

Hats
April 10, 2006 - 01:02 pm

MarjV
April 10, 2006 - 02:31 pm
Well, Mrs S - I think you have helped me figure out what I've been feeling re MO and SH. I didn't have the words.

While speaking of nature, etc., tho, they are different. And each sees themself with a different "job" in their poetry.

~Marj

Scrawler
April 11, 2006 - 10:39 am
Yeah! You are so right sometimes I do feel like a "nut" and sometimes I don't. Usually, my family sees me as very "nutty!"

The Truro Bear:

There's a bear in the Truro woods.
People have seen it - three or four,
or two, or one. I think
of the thickness of the serious woods
around the dark bowls of the Truro ponds;
I think of the blueberry fields, the blackberry tangles,
the cranberry bogs. And the sky
with its new moon, its familiar star-trails
burns down like a brand-new heaven,
while everywhere I look on the scratchy hillsides
shadows seem to grow shoulders. Surely
a beast might be clever, be lucky, move quietly
through the woods for years, learning to stay away
from roads and houses. Common sense mutters:
it can't be true, it must be somebody's
runaway dog. But the seed
has been planted, and when has happiness ever
required much evidence to begin
its left-green breathing?

Mary Oliver

I'm not sure about the last part of this poem. I got it as far as the "runaway dog", but after that the explanation is up for grabs. I used to love to sit out in my back yard in my old apartment and watch the animals come down off the mountain behind me to feed in the duck pond. I can't help but wonder how long it will be before "human-kind" infringes on the animal life and there is none left. It would be really sad if the only way our children's children were to see any wild animals if they were in the zoo or a circus.

JoanK
April 11, 2006 - 02:59 pm
I'm behind as usual.

"
By morning 
I had vanished at least a dozen times 
into something better.
"

I've always liked this poem. I see it differently from you all. I see MO as a mystic, as many nature lovers are. Her love of nature shines through all of her poems, but it is not just a love of nature -- for her this is a gateway to another way of seeing the universe, a universe where we are not a collection of small individual selves but one whole. This is what she vanishes into. It is most explicit in this poem, but it is there in all her poems -- she describes a loved and meticulously observed scene and then lifts a corner of the page to look through and beyond it -- beyond this world.

Jim in Jeff
April 11, 2006 - 05:00 pm
Joan K...no late-comments unappreciated here. And I too am beginning to see MO as a mystic. A nature lover, for sure. Count me in THAT (nature lover) circle.

More and more, I am equating MO's poems with my cherished childhood book, "Bambi...the Life of a Forest Deer" by Felix Salten. Salten was a poet. And one creation was this delightful little book...prose/poetry, I think. Disney's movie version doesn't compare with Salten's book.

Scrawler, I'm doubtful too. But it seems to me that meaning of MO's last line in "The Truor Bear" hinges on meaning of "left-green breathing."

I hope MO wasn't promoting a modern political/environmental movement of same name. See more at: http://patriot.net/~cnc/lgn.htm

I'm not adverse to "social movements," per se. But I hope Mary Oliver's "left-green breathing" meant something else I don't yet see.

Mrs Sherlock, I'm not sure we've HERE discussed Paul Dunbar. I've googled him just now, and I find him a quality subject. Did we share him here earlier, and I missed it?

And I just now also looked up "visceral." One definition is "gut feeling." If that's what you meant, I hear you. However, my vote is for a visceral appreciation of MO...over your favorite, Seamus Heaney. Room for us all, in this poetry-appreciation forum...yes?

MarjV, thanks for your thoughts on my "Wild Geese" post. I agree that's it's a lovely address to loneliness. It's also a gentle one, as you said.

Each year, in November, I've been sending a 4-years-now widow a poem...on anniversary of her saddest day. Next time, it just might be MO's "Wild Geese" that I surprise-send her again.

Hats, like you, I too hope to find MO's "Poetry Handbook" book...lickety-split.

Alliemae
April 11, 2006 - 05:28 pm
"Stars climb, frost comes, and bluejays sing.

The broken year will make no change

Upon her wise and whirling heart;--

She knows how people always plan

To live their lives, and never do,

She will not tell me if she cries.

I touch the crosses by her name:

I fold the pages as I rise,

And tip the envelope, from which

Drift scraps of borage, woodbine, rue."


Of all the poems so far, this one touched my heart with such a longing...such a poignancy. I would like to think the letter was from her mother...my own dear mother passed when she was only 55 years old...I never really saw her age...

Alliemae

Hats
April 12, 2006 - 02:45 am
Alliemae,

We share the same love of this poem. I thought of my mother too. She died at sixty three. After all these years I still miss her. Time passes, the emptiness stays.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about your mother.

JoanK,

Those three sentences just speak volumes. I would like to memorize those three lines. I would have food for thought for many years.

Scrawler,

The bear poem left me guessing. In that one I just enjoyed "the blueberry tangles, cranberry bog and blackberry tangles and the blueberry fields."

Jim in Jeff, you have given me homework. Now I need to reread Bambi.

Hats
April 12, 2006 - 05:07 am
Magellan

Like Magellan, let us find our islands
To die in, far from home, from anywhere
Familiar. Let us risk the wildest places,
Lest we go down in comfort, and despair.


For years we have labored over common roads,
Dreaming of ships that sail into the night.
Let us be heroes, or, if that's not in us,
Let us find men to follow, honor-bright.


For what is life but reaching for an answer?
And what is death but a refusal to grow?
Magellan had a dream he had to follow.
The sea was big, his ships were awkward, slow.


And when the fever would not set him free,
To his thin crew, "Sail on, sail on!" he cried.
And so they did, carried the frail dream homeward.
And thus Magellan lives, although he died.


Mary Oliver

I think this poem is about dreams, having goals. It's also about taking a leap when my heart is pumping fast. I feel so afraid. It's a reminder my comfort zone is deceptive. If all of this is too much for me to do in this life, to make my dreams come true, I must tell my dream to others, my children and friends. Perhaps, they will carry out my dream when I am gone.

MarjV
April 12, 2006 - 06:29 am
Yes, Magellan sure touches me as a "get out of that box" poem. A reminder - when you think or act outside the box your family or peers may not like it. They often like dependable comfort zones especially in us wise elders. (my fav term is "wise elders" - gives a special place to age as having wisdom & also in the Am. Indian culture the elders were revered.

I recently leased a Jeep Liberty (I had a 10year old sedate Escort) . You should have heard the comments. -- "You what!!!!"

Go My Fellow Magellans!!!!!

~Marj

Alliemae
April 12, 2006 - 06:38 am
Oh Hats...I do hear you!! This one brought a tear or two to my eyes...about things I've wanted to do and have jumped in feet first and just went for it...these were tears of pride and even more, joy...and a sense of gratitude to myself--and tears of disappointment...about those things I would still like to do but listen to that 'deceptive comfort zone'...

I love how this poet gently brings me back to myself.

I love how this poet (and others) brings us all together.

I'm grateful that however this group got here, it did...

Alliemae

Hats
April 12, 2006 - 06:41 am
Hi MarjV,

I hope you are enjoying your Jeep Liberty.

Hi Alliemae,

Your words are so special and so moving.

"I'm grateful that however this group got here, it did..."

I agree.

Alliemae
April 12, 2006 - 06:41 am
I like that...'wise elders'. I call us 'seasoned citizens' also!

Alliemae

MarjV
April 12, 2006 - 06:42 am
My thought on The Truro Bear---maybe the ending with " and when has happiness ever required much evidence to begin its left-green breathing" corresponds with an ecology mission. We can "breathe" creatively if we look to creative answers to preserve our wondrous earth and all therein. See the technique below which is part of some yoga exercises.

I found this in the Power of Breathing and Breathing techniques:

"There are several techniques for accessing creativity through breathing. One of them involves switching the nostril through which you are breathing. Throughout the day you'll notice that the nostril through which you are breathing changes. For a while you breathe through the right nostril, then the nostril changes, and you breathe through the left nostril. After a while, nostrils change again. As the left side of the body controls the right-brain thinking (creative), and the right side of the body controls the left-brain thinking (logical), to stimulate creativity and right-brain thinking, you simply close down your right nostril (with your thumb) and breathe through the left nostril, thus stimulating the right-brain activity."

MrsSherlock
April 12, 2006 - 08:59 am
Now I will be checking my breathing. To think that I can enhance my brain by breathing through the appropriate nostril is boggling! About letter from home, I majored in Sociology which leads me to the determination that Mary Oliver, and many of the rest of us, are "marginal", people whose lives have taken them out of the mainstream to the fringes. Being marginal myself, I can see how nostalgia for the lives we expected to lead when we were children can be bittersweet. Very thought provoking and profound.

annafair
April 12, 2006 - 09:07 am
Marj I think that is the only nostril I breathe through! I returned to the beginning of this MO month to make sure I didnt post a poem twice. And found we have posted 31 poems thus far, AND KNUGURA I forgot to tell you I have loved Robert Services poems, I wasnt able to fulfill my dream to go to Alaska (but there is still time isnt there>) Thanks for sharing that bit.

AND a huge thank you to everyone for some of the most thoughtful posts, re -reading them made me realize anew how special it is to be with poetry lovers, Thank you for sharing your joys and your memories for they open the doors to mine.

The poem I chose for today almost made me weep while I was typing and reading it ..I am really hearing impaired and it is only through my mind and my memories of the hearing time I can still rejoice in the fact once all sound was mine to know, And MO's poems as you have commented makes us realize we have to use our time here to really see and feel When my husband died after a year I bought my first computer and because of the people I met on line I had this desire to meet them in person so I bought a little Saturn, stick shift and took off alone and a little over two years later I had out 28,000 miles on that car, Made a whole passel of new friends and began to write all those poems and stories that had lain still for so many years.When my children worried about me traveling alone I told them I had to find out CAN I LIVE ALONE??? well I can and I cant but the bottom line I did and do,,,Here is the poem ,,anna

THIS WORLD


I would like to write a poem about the world that has in it
nothing fancy.
But it seems impossible.
Whatever the subject, the morning sun
glimmers it.
The tulip feels the heat and flaps its petals open
and becomes a star.
The ants bore into the peony bud and there is the dark
pinprick well of sweetness.
As for the stones on the beach, forget it.
Each one is set in gold.
So I tried with my eyes shut, but of course the birds
were singing.
And the aspen trees were shaking the sweetest music
out of their leaves.
And that was followed by, guess what , a momentous and
beautiful silence
as comes to all of us, in little earfuls, if we’re not too
hurried to hear it.
As far as the spiders, how the dew hangs in their webs
even if they say nothing, or seem to say nothing.
So fancy is the world, who knows, maybe they sing.
So fancy is the world, who knows maybe the stars sing too,
and the ants , and the peonies, and the warm stones,
so happy to be where they are, on the beach, instead of being
locked up in gold.


Mary Oliver

Hats
April 12, 2006 - 09:08 am
MarjV,

Those are very interesting facts about how we breathe. It is more fascinating to learn our creativity is related to the breathing technique.

annafair
April 12, 2006 - 09:27 am
When I tell people I am hearing impaired it is true I find it difficult and often impossible to understand what others are saying, I am glad to report I am at last getting help through the kindness of others when they take time to write out what I need to hear.

BUT while those words are lost I Do hear ..I have tinnitus but even if I didnt have those sounds humidity carries sounds so when it rains I can sometimes hear the sound of the train a block away, or even the faint hoot of an owl, or the far away sound of sirens. So when I wrote a poem to read to my poetry group about how I feel about the sounds I do hear .. They are in my inner ear and I prefer to think of them as special and not just noise..MO last poem reminded me and I thought perhaps you would like to know what I believe I do hear.. anna

silent sounds


I hear the sea
the sky the stars
and all the blades of grass
I hear the moonlight
oozing through the glass
rain sifting through trees
its laughter as it drips
from eaves
its supple song on a summer morn
voices lost to me are now
musical and lucid in my inner ear
where all the sounds from
the hearing world
are stored for only me to hear
from out my past the grinding
of steel wheels against steel rails
a fog horn warns beware
I own a private lair
where desperate dins
cry out to me and wake me
from my trance
dancing to music
no one knows
I am all alone
and my ears are full of stones


lost in a world that hears


anna Alexander February 8, 2006©

MarjV
April 12, 2006 - 10:00 am
Oh Anna, both the MO and your poem are just fantastic. Both of them just fill my heart. They say so very much that lots of us feel.

I am so glad you have sounds "stored" and can write about them and letus know.

I haven't posted a poem in the last couple days simply because I have been too lazy to type them out; the ones I really like aren't online mostly. I have a prose poem of MO all set to type out later. ~Marj

JoanK
April 12, 2006 - 11:32 am
Oh, Anna. Those two poems made me cry.

Thank you, Marg, for reminding me of the yoga breathing exercises. I studied yoga for many years, and the breathing was always my favorite. Now I keep thinking I can't do yoga with my arthritis and bad hip. But of course I can do the breathing.

Here is a really simple breathing exercise to do when you're tense:

Breathe in 

Breathe out

Breathe in

Breathe out

Breathe in

Smile


When I do that, all my breath goes out with the smile and takes the tension with it.

MarjV
April 12, 2006 - 11:39 am
And JoanK, you can also modify any of the arm stretches and full body stretches.

JoanK
April 12, 2006 - 11:45 am
And here is a real yoga jewel for when you have been reading or on the computer for a long time and your eyes are tired. Do it when you're not wearing glasses or contacts.

It's called palming, but my daughter calls it "My eyes are going on a vacation all by themselves".

Rub your hands briskly together until they feel warm. You are making a warm bath for your eyes to float in.

When they are nice and warm, cup your hands over your eyes. Do not touch the eyes or lids. Rest the hands on your cheekbones and forehead, with a cup of warm air in between.

Close your eyes and imagine the most beautiful scene you have ever seen -- for me it's a field of flowers leading down to a bay, or lying down looking at the stars.

Hang out there as long as you want. When you're finished, rub your hands down your cheeks for a nice message and open your eyes.

MarjV
April 12, 2006 - 11:52 am
In fall, in the garden and beyond, in the delicate
yellow space between anything, spiders, plumb as acorns, spin
their webs; they are the wildest woven things' they are the
most shimmering death-traps.

The mouse and the vole, the raccoon and fox walk lightly
through the grass below. They scarecely glance up to see her
runnong on her dark and cunning legs along the frist bridges,
or racing back and forth along the silver girders, or waiting,
or wrapping the white moth whose night was full of bad luck,
who already can't move, and will soon be dead.

What is the spider good for ? A few things surely. Birds eat
spiders, thus feeding the song. And spiders eat insects, some
of which, as we know, carry diseases - though not pride -
not that one.

But speaking of that. At dawn, the early walker, to the spider
a giant, wanders through the garden and the fields in the
meditative, and thus inattentive, frame of mind of first things.
This, of course, is myself. And more than once I have just
noticed the dew-glittering web in time, and the spider stamp-
ing her tiny feet and screeching: I live here, duck your head.


- - - - - -- -

What reminders in this spider song about the destructive side in
in all of nature; like the diseases carried by some.

Very interesting that she speaks of the disease of "pride". It surpised me in one sense, in another not, because then it caused me to thing how pride can be a disease. Referring to the kind of pride that hurts others or elevates self above another; not the healthy kind that is happy about something we've accomplished.

I love to watch spiders as long as they are outside. The various webs are a treasure. We have some around here that make these tunnl webs and wait at the bottom for an insect to come by and up they scoot; I like to sort of touch that kind of web with a twig gently and watch Ms Spider come into action. You can do it with a regular type web also.

Hurrah for the spider. ~Marj

MarjV
April 12, 2006 - 11:55 am
Thanks for that reminder, JoanK. I need to start doing that eye treat regularily..

Hats
April 12, 2006 - 11:57 am
Anna,

Your poem is very moving. The words "lost in a world that hears." Your poem makes me appreciate the sounds around me. I should say your poem wakes me up and makes me want to tune in more closely.

MarjV
April 12, 2006 - 12:00 pm
Rereading Anna's MO poem[#461 "This World"] I think everything sings. It's just that we don't always hear the "song" particular to singer. Today I noticed that my backyard is singing the Alleluia chorus after a soft & warm rain with the forsythia & daffs a'bloom and grass a'greenin' and robbins a'wormin'.

Hats
April 12, 2006 - 12:01 pm
Scrawler,

I like the poem "Entering the Kingdom" and your comments too. I can just see that crow on the top of your car. That crow was pretty aggressive.

Joank,

I love the simple breathing treatment. I am really going to use that one.

Scrawler
April 12, 2006 - 12:06 pm
Yes, I can see Mary Oliver as a "nature mystic." Isn't it interesting that there are so many interruptations for the same thing.

Marj, you go girl!

Swamp: Muskrats float like small bears, then dive down
To the mud. Sour as old milk

It waits, gray nightmare,
To rise up with every turbulence.

Some birds with sharp wings fly over,
And schools of fish

Flash through the shallows, and stands
Of rusty cattails

Rattle like scrap metal. But it's not
These who set nervousness clanging in the blood-

It's the unseen
Creepers, the venomous crawlers, the lurkers, squirmers;

The mute, the heavy,
The slow.



~ Mary Oliver

I've never seen a swamp, but while I was researching my book I came across how "fighting men" would simply vanish when they tried to cross the various Southern swamps. Not only did the Union have to look out for the southern Rebels, but I think "nature's unseen" were the real danger - the venomous crawler, the lurkers and least we forget the squirmers. It makes my skin crawl just thinking about them.

Hats
April 12, 2006 - 12:28 pm
MarjV,

I agree "Hurrah for the spider." The delicacy of a spider web is incredible.

Anna,

I love your Mary Oliver poem too. "Who knows, maybe they sing."

With all of these beautiful poems, I feel we are enjoying a party, a poetry party like in one of those cafes.

MarjV
April 12, 2006 - 02:44 pm
Yes, Hats - great idea - a Poetry Party - and this is Poetry Month. So, while anytime is great for Party time - this is definitely.

http://poetry.about.com/od/natpomo/

Alliemae
April 12, 2006 - 03:44 pm
Hi Joan, have you heard of a CD/VHS Tape called "Yoga for the Rest of Us?" I also have serious osteo and rheumatoid arthritis and use this tape. It is made especially for differently abled persons and the leader is lovely and gentle and you only do the parts you are able to do.

Your breathing as you describe it is one part also.

I used to use the cupped hands over my eyes when I was still working and now that I've retired I have kind of neglected that. I hadn't known about breathing warm air into your hands first. I'll definitely be using that technique again (new and improved version)...thank you Joan!

Alliemae

Alliemae
April 12, 2006 - 03:47 pm
Anna, I'm sure that in many ways your 'hearing' is even more intense and detailed than many of us who can 'hear' in the more conventional sense and I'm glad you have your gift of 'inner ear' hearing.

Alliemae

Alliemae
April 12, 2006 - 04:12 pm
August

"When the blackberries hang
swollen in the woods, in the brambles
nobody owns, I spend


all day among the high
branches, reaching
my ripped arms, thinking


of nothing, cramming
the black honey of summer
into my mouth; all day my body


accepts what it is. In the dark
creeks that run by there is
this thick paw of my life darting among


the black bells, the leaves; there is
this happy tongue.


Mary Oliver

When I was younger and Dad was alive he used to take me to my Nanna's grave at the cemetary in Lincolnville, Maine where the biggest, darkest, sweetest and juiciest blackberries grew just like MO says in this poem.

Dad always said they were the best because they were the 'best fertilized' around, growing so close to the cemetery and all!!

This poem was a real treat for me...

Alliemae

Hats
April 13, 2006 - 02:08 am
Anna,

What a great link! Thanks!

Hi Alliemae,

I love "August." I also love reading your memories. "Darting among the black bells." How does she think of those metaphors? I know in house poets who think in this way. "In the brambles nobody owns." I love that line too. Nature, I think, is the one free beauty left in this world. There is no admission. It's possible to stay without posted hours. This gift I can open over and over and....

annafair
April 13, 2006 - 06:14 am
What a great poem and I can relate , as it seems I do with all of MO's poems My Aunt Nora and Uncle Reed were childless but had many nieces and nephews and when they vacationed every year they always invited one or more to travel with them When I was about 6 I was asked and from then on thier vacations became mine. My uncle was into natural foods, So each year we went to Tennessee and Kentucky to find home smoked hams and bacon, and sorghum, And when the blackberries were ripe we drove to Arkansas because in one of their trips they had found wild blackberries on a back road so of course I went along and we would gather baskets of these berries My aunt would can them and make blackberry jelly. One day they would come to our home and gave my mother a dozen jars of blackberries which come winter she would turn into blackbery cobblers, And one year he gave me a very tiny glass of blackberry jelly and said that represented the amount of blackberries I PICKED, Even then I had to laugh at his wry sense of humor, I still have that glass it is a tall and slender and holds toothpicks well so you know how tiny it was I can never look at that without smiling ..It is a precious memory and so the poem you shared and your memory reminded me of the special people and things in my life. I had to smile at your father's remark it sounds so much like my Uncle Reed..He had this wonderful droll sense of humor and I loved it..thanks for sharing ..anna

annafair
April 13, 2006 - 06:23 am
Like you I dont know how MO thinks of the metaphors she uses but I know once I started writing poetry my mind tripped a lever somewhere and I began to SEE things I had overlooked..It has opened the door to wonderful new ways to look at the world around us. Rolled hay no longer looks like rolled hay but huge biscuits toasting in the August sun,.The mountains where my oldest daughter lives no longer look like just mountains but each season looks so different In winter when I go the bare trees remind me of bearded men the stubble of unshaved faces, In spring they are ladies in new attire and in fall their gowns are in glorious hues Reading poetry and writing it has opened doors inside me I never knew was there ..MO being a poet just sees things differently but the greatest gift she allows us to see with her. anna

Hats
April 13, 2006 - 06:42 am
Anna,

You have that same special poetic gift. When you share a poem, it is a special day. I enjoy your poems, your metaphors so much.

Scrawler
April 13, 2006 - 11:02 am
Sharks in these waters!the trim white
Coast Guard cutter repeats and repeats

its friendly persuasive warning
to the beach, and the swimmers come

hurriedly to shore, to lie hot and lazy
on the sharp sand,looking

all afternoon seaward for the steep
dark dorsal fin

that might or might not come pricking
like a needle through the small wind-waves.

If it does
they will rise and point excitedly and rush

to the water's edge, and then back.
And if it does not, still they will dream

of the sinuous explorers of the blue chambers
of coastal waters moving

easy as oil, without a wasted stroke,
in and out of the warm coves. But slowly

the heat eases, and the wind picks up,
and since nothing has happened

a few figures dare the water to their waists,
forgetting, as men have always forgotten,

that life's winners are not the rapacious but the patient;
what triumphs and takes new territory

has learned to lie for centuries in the shadows
like the shadows of the rocks.

~ Mary Oliver

I share this poem for no other reason than that my Hockey team [the San Jose Sharks] have made the playoffs. Than again I also liked the part: "forgetting, as men have always forgotten,/that life's winners are not the rapacious but the patient..." Perhaps it better to be more like the "turtle" than the "hare" even if it is close to Easter.

MarjV
April 13, 2006 - 11:16 am
From the Guardian, April 1, 2006

Seamus Heaney's new book- District and Circle

Alliemae
April 14, 2006 - 07:42 am
I can picture that little glass...and I'm so happy for you that you still have it!

Unfortunately, I could eat the berries as fast as I picked them...or is that what your Uncle Reed was pointing out about you too!?

'"In the brambles nobody owns."' (MO via Hats)

Hats...I think that was THE line that evoked my memory...there is something very large in that phrase...'that nobody owns'...what a gently victorious thought...may Mother Earth keep on winning for us...

"Rolled hay no longer looks like rolled hay..." (annafair)

anna you see 'huge biscuits toasting in the August sun'...I smell the hay and now I wish I could express that fragrance in a poem...or at least a metaphor...

Isn't it wonderful...the more minds and souls, the more shared appreciation.

Be back soon...preparing for Latin finals and questioning myself as to why I'm doing that to myself!! Time is so very precious...

Alliemae

MarjV
April 14, 2006 - 10:38 am
Alliemae - I would say the answer is "because"

Scrawler
April 14, 2006 - 11:28 am
You know how it feels,
wanting to walk into
the rain and disappear -
wanting to feel your life
brighten and grow weightless
as a leaf in the fall.
And sometimes, for a moment,
you feel it beginning - the sense
of escape sharp as a knife-blade
hangs over the dark field
of your body, and your soul
waits just under the skin
to leap away over the water.
But the blade,
at the last minute, hesitates
and does not fall,
and the body does not open,
and you are what you are -
trapped, heavy and visible
under the rain, only your vision
delicate as old leaves skimming
over the mounds of the seasons,
the limits of everything,
The few shaped bones of time.

~Mary Oliver

A while back we talked about Mary Oiver being a mystic. Perhaps she is not really mystic, but rather simply showing a little of her darker side.

Have we decided yet what we are going to do for May? I know its only half way through April, but time does go by quickly when you're having fun.

Alliemae
April 14, 2006 - 11:30 am
Oh Marj...that is JUST what I needed to hear!!

Thanks, Marj...I'm off to study AGAIN...

Alliemae

MarjV
April 14, 2006 - 12:27 pm
Scrawler, that poem definitely resonates with me. I've been on brinks like she brings to us in that poem. I've experienced it. For me it is a beauty of a poem - reflects our humanness. Womanness. Manness. Creatureness. However you want to label it.

The lib only got me two of her books so I had not read that one. Thanks. I"m so far behind on reading these posts and commenting that I'm starting anew.

~Marj

MrsSherlock
April 14, 2006 - 04:48 pm
You are what you are... That says it all.

Alliemae
April 14, 2006 - 05:35 pm
GO SHARKS!!!!!!!

Alliemae
April 14, 2006 - 05:43 pm
Yes...and yet, sometimes you need to go out in that rain again and walk, and walk, and walk...and recover the chunks of you that may have been chipped away from your SELF by life, or sometimes others...even well-intentioned others.

Alliemae

MarjV
April 14, 2006 - 06:25 pm
Alliemae ~~~ I love that sentence.

annafair
April 15, 2006 - 07:35 am
That is one I posted sometime in this discussion before I woke up one morning and realized what I wanted to do here was what we are doing here. Sharing the thoughts and poems of a single poet for a whole month; so we can walk with that poet, feel what the poet is saying and see ourselves in the poets words and discover what is in us that the poet speaks about.

I have been thinking about our next poet, I have some suggestions but remind you they are only my suggestions ,Your opinions and your thoughts and your wishes count..

Here are my tentative suggestions, I have three on each list, These are ones I have read and enjoyed. For the male poets I have Ted Kooser, Dana Gioia, Richard Wilbur. For the female poets there is Rita Dove, Sara Teasdale, Gwendolyn Brooks, You do not have to choose any of them they are ones I have read some of their poems and enjoyed and would like to dig deeper, read more and discuss what they have written,

I am between thunderstorms , it seems we are in the path of the thunderstorm God ..and he is shaking his fist at us. Not continually but daily. So my computer has been shut down every day and the forecast is for more of the same.

I googled each of the poets mentioned if they are not familiar to you and you want to check them out you can find thier biographies and some poems ..I didnt save the links as I just wanted to get this out so I know you will have it to consider..

And Alliemae I love that sentence too, Reminds me of when I missed my bus and had to walk home I could have waited for another bus but it was raining and I decided if I were going to get wet I might as walk as wait. It was the most liberating thing I have ever done ..It was glorious to walk and feel the rain wash over me. In retrospect it was that walk that colored all of my future ..gave me permission to be me..I was a junion in High School and can still see my mother's worried look when I arrived home looking like a soggy cat but clutching my happiness.. Thank goodness she was just relieved I was home safe. I think I need to walk in the rain again..anna

MarjV
April 15, 2006 - 08:32 am
I searched and did not see this one as posted here.

"Like many poems, this one is a celebration of being alive."[quote from a web page that I found it]

Morning

Salt shining behind its glass cylinder.
Milk in a blue bowl. The yellow linoleum.
The cat stretching her black body from the pillow.
The way she makes her curvaceous response to the small, kind gesture.
Then laps the bowl clean.
Then wants to go out into the world
where she leaps lightly and for no apparent reason across the lawn,
then sits, perfectly still, in the grass.
I watch her a little while, thinking:
what more could I do with wild words?
I stand in the cold kitchen, bowing down to her.
I stand in the cold kitchen, everything wonderful around me.

Mary Oliver - From "New and Selected Poems" 1992

- - - - -- - - - -

MO delights in her household companion here. Every morning is new to kitty creatures. A whole new world to explore.

Of course, being a kitty fanatic I enjoyed this even more.

I like how she pointed out the first colors she sees in the morning.

Scrawler
April 15, 2006 - 11:11 am
Yes, Marj I liked that poem. My kitty is sleeping with her head on the keyboard of my computer under the lamp. Sharing the same space can be frustrating at times, but she makes a "neat" companion until she manages to "delete" what I've been writing. When that paw is over the delete button, I know its time to pay attention to her.

The only poets on your list that I am familiar with are: Sara Teasdale and Gwendolyn Brooks, but any of the poets you mentioned would be great for our next discussion.

Milkweed: The milkweed now with their many pods are standing
like a country of dry women.
The wind lifts their flat leaves and drops them.
This is not kind, but they retain a certain crisp glamour;
moreover, it's easy to beleive
each one was once young and delicate, also
frightened; also capable
of a certain amount of rough joy.
I wish you would walk with me out into the world
I wish you could see what has to happen, how
each one crackles like a blessing
over its thin children as they rush away.

~ Mary Oliver [Dream Work]

I can't help think who she was talking about when she said: I wish you would walk with me out into the world and I love those lines:...like a country of dry women. Do you suppose she could be talking about "older" women?

Christo neste [which in Greek means Christ has risen!" May you all find peace and happiness this holiday season.

MarjV
April 15, 2006 - 02:32 pm
Yes, the poem is talking of older women - i.e. they retain glamour, each was young and delicate, rough joy, etc. And we do lose "leaves" in our aging.

But what an amazing expression there where :" wish you could see what has to happen, how each one crackles like a blessing over its thin children as they rush away".

"thin children" - could that mean they are people who have not yet tasted the wholeness of life???? I thought so. And we "crackle a blessing". Yes!!!!

I just think this poem is one of the best for me. I still have some "crisp glamour"

MarjV
April 15, 2006 - 02:32 pm
ps - Anna, any poet you choose I will sink into. You could put each of those 6 names in a hat and draw out one. How is that!

Alliemae
April 15, 2006 - 03:52 pm
Alithos, Aneste

Alliemae

Alliemae
April 15, 2006 - 04:08 pm
I like this poem but feel I must read it over a few times...it seems full of a lot of things...some I sensed...and maybe some I'm not ready to admit yet???

Thanks everyone who liked my sentence...I'm in the process of doing just that right now and living in Philly, there's plenty of opportunity to walk both in sunshine and in rain...but best of all, in our light, caressing mists.

Any poet everyone agrees on is fine with me although when I checked them out on the web I thought a couple of the men were a little depressing or was it sad...can't put my finger on it...and I wanted a man's point of view in the next selection but I'm really okay with serendipity! (plus, after reading a sampling of the poems I've decided to read Rita Dove, Sara Teasdale, Gwendolyn Brooks at some point in time anyway...)

Alliemae

MarjV
April 15, 2006 - 04:08 pm
Alliemae, is that response "He is risen indeed"?

annafair
April 15, 2006 - 05:20 pm
Well I cant stay since I am in a severe thunderstorm watch but wrote all the names on slips of paper . picked them up randomly and placed in my hand names down and had a friend pick one >>the Name is Gwendolyn Brooks who wrote that poem called "WE COOL" I will have a link in the heading when we are ready to change and since we are doing two women back to back I will choose a man in June...I dont mind thinking of poets to share but if anyone has any poet they would particularly like to spend a month on PLEASE say so...I have to confess this is the BEST Idea I have had in a long time...Each poet has been so unique and each one of them spoke to all of us I can tell from your posts. It is very special to be seniors and so enthusiastic about something and that something POETRY It is so joyous I feel like I am the twenty-two year old I often claim to be!! The poems have lifted me up and put me down in some special places and I have discoverd places in myself that I never knew were there. I am gratified you have held my hand and walked with me..It makes those places all the more special ..well there is either a plane taking off or I hear Thor making noise.. later BLESSED EASTER--- BLESSED PASSOVER to all . anna

MrsSherlock
April 16, 2006 - 08:46 am
Gwendolyn Brooks, another Pulitzer winner. I/m looking forward to her visions and insights. How much richer my imagination is since I have become a steady reader of poetry.

Alliemae
April 16, 2006 - 08:57 am
Yes, Marj...that's what it means, as I recall from Greek lessons a long time ago!

I love this season of the year...new beginnings...life popping up all around and recreating itself!

I love the idea so much I've celebrated numerous 'New Beginning' holidays throughout the year and still do when I've got the energy. Iranian Noh Ruz (New Year) on the first day of spring; Autumn, just about the time of Jewish New Year, always feel to me like other 'times of renewal'...I even celebrate New Years between Hallowe'en and All Saints Day. That one and our Dec 31st and Jan 1st New Year are my special times of introspection and appreciation.

I also find it interesting that Spring Cleaning and Fall Cleaning are around the times of the Iranian New Year (which is datewise close to Easter) and the Jewish New Year respectively. The Iranians have a day a few weeks before their New Year 13 day celebration called (in transliteration) Khane Techane (Haw-ne Tech-Haw-ne) which literally means shaking the house, and it's their top to bottom, side-to-side, inside and outside cleaning of their homes in preparation for the new year! Funny the little but delightful memories you pick up along the way in this life!

While I was raising my four children on my own we couldn't afford to travel, so we did it by meals and stories and music around our dinner table. I think we'd almost made it through every continent and every major belief before they grew up and went on their own.

Once, when we were celebrating China I brought home a Chinese music tape from Chinatown to be played at our 'Honor China' dinner and my sons, always the jokers said, "Well Mom, at least they've included the words to this one!" The entire sheet did indeed have the lyrics to every song--in Chinese!!

Whatever you celebrate, I hope you are all enjoying this day of 'new beginnings'...

Alliemae

Alliemae
April 16, 2006 - 01:26 pm
Funny...I was reading more of Gwendolyn Brooks' poetry this morning and I'm real happy with the choice!

MrsSherlock, I too am ."...looking forward to her visions and insights."

Alliemae

Hats
April 16, 2006 - 02:17 pm
A Game of Children

In the first darkness
I watch the two boys and their sister
Running under the warm stars,
With coiled muscles and the ardent
Certainty that their fingertips can graze
The sharp hoof of a light
An instant in the acme of a leap
Before their leaping feet come back to earth


And watching later
The night grass rise from the marks of their small shoes,
I remember, from my own time, this leaping game;
And I remember sitting in the dark
As now they sit,
By windows before sleep,
Increduous with themselves for failing
To accomplish impossible deeds.


Mary Oliver

I remember playing until dark in the summertime. My parents and other parents sat out on the porches just enjoying a restful end to the day. We played Hide and Go Seek, chased each other, racing, tag. Too soon my mom would call. It was time to go to bed. It was fun remembering the day. In my head, I won all the races and no one ever found my hiding place. In my head, I was the winner. When really, I had lost more games than I had won.

Hats
April 16, 2006 - 02:19 pm
Alliemae,

I enjoyed reading your holiday wishes. Beautiful.

Jim in Jeff
April 16, 2006 - 04:34 pm
A Game of Children
by our 'Hats' (tho w/o her permission)

I remember playing until dark in the summertime.
My parents and other parents would sit
out on the porches
just enjoying a restful end to the day.

We played Hide and Go Seek,
chased each other,
racing, and tag games.
Too soon my mom would call.
It was time to go to bed.

It was fun remembering the day.
In my head, I won all the races...
and no one ever found my hiding place.
In my head, I was always the winner.
Though really, I lost more games than I won.

- Hats; "A Game of Children" 2006.

Jim in Jeff
April 16, 2006 - 04:57 pm
Hats...your words, as they often do, melt my heart. You've a poetic soul, m'lady!

Anna, your Gwendolyn Brooks choice for May sits good with me. But I might up and slip a "Maya Angelo" thought into the mix, time to time.

Women are OK selections. MO is making that clear to me. My favorite people, women. As does my longtime "dear Emily" love-affair attest.

Ted Kooser (our current poet-laurate), I've applauded here enough times already. His poems are so-so, but OK. It's his work as Poet-Laurate to promote contemporary poets that has earned him my hearty support.

So 2 months ago I asked my local newspaper to include Ted's weekly "contemporary poet" in their "books" section. Sad to add, they didn't do so, nor did they even reply to my email to them. O'well. Both poets and their poem-lovers (us)...often starve for affection.

I also like "Milkweed," Scrawler's post of MO's poem. But these days I find ONLY older women attractive. Bimbo's...don't signify.

And isn't it true...that milkweeds are their MOST BEAUTIFUL when dispersing seeds and knowledge...into God's care and His winds?

P.S. - I loved the Greek lesson here, and have used the terms in Easter-greetings emails to several special friends. Tks, Folks!

Jim in Jeff
April 16, 2006 - 05:41 pm
Mary Oliver's "Milkweed" wasn't one of her several personal choices out of 1986 "Dream Work" for inclusion in a later book of her own favorite poems (that I've checked out of public library). Thanks for adding it for us here.

Here's a couple of MO's less-positive poems. Her thoughts did encompass a wide range of thoughts and feelings, I think.

Farm Country

I have sharpened my knives, I have
Put on the heavy apron.

Maybe you think life is chicken soup, served
In blue willow-pattern bowls.

I have put on my boots and opened
The kitchen door and stepped out.

Into the sunshine. I have crossed the lawn,
I have entered

The hen house.

-- Mary Oliver; The Night Traveler, 1978

OK, that one has a surprise ending. So here's one that seems exactly what its title implies to me:

A Bitterness

I believe you did not have a happy life.
I believe you were cheated.
I believe your best friends were loneliness and misery.
I believe your busiest enemies were anger and depression.
I believe joy was a game you could never play without stumbling.
I believe comfort, though you craved it, was forever a stranger.
I believe music had to be melancholy or not at all.
I believe no trinket, no precious metal, shone so bright as your bitterness.
I believe you lay down at last in your coffin none the wiser and unassuaged.
Oh, cold and dreamless under the wild, amoral, reckless, peaceful flowers of the hillsides.

-- Mary Oliver, "New Poems 1991-1992"

Just a couple of her (relatively few) darker poems...to maybe give a fairer balance to her mostly happier visions, metaphors, and thoughts.

Hats
April 16, 2006 - 11:36 pm
Jim in Jeff,

How in the world do you do it! I love it!! You never need my permission. You are definitely the poetic one. Thank you.

I really love "A Bitterness." It's odd how a sad poem can strike such a beautiful chord. There is just something special about this poem other than sorrow. Thanks for sharing another of Mary Oliver's special poems: a crayon, a doll baby's glove, a key to a door.

I love "Farm Country" too. I love aprons and Blue Willow plates. I remember women would wear aprons with pockets. The pockets were used to put every little thing you picked up during the day.

Hats
April 17, 2006 - 12:08 am
Scrawler,

I missed "Blackwater Pond." I love that poem too. It's another dark one. Still, it touches me. I feel there are two choices in the poem. Often in life I have been stuck with two choices. Should I do this or should I do that? It makes me afraid to move at all. I have heard it said no movement IS movement. So, I make a choice. Some choices were fine. Some were so bad. Those choices are best left in a trunk in a corner.

Anna and MarjV,

I have missed some poems posted. So, I am going over the MO posts again. I don't want to miss the good stuff.

Hats
April 17, 2006 - 12:15 am
MarjV, that is a good idea to stick each name in a hat. Anna, I can't choose. Anna, you have come up with some good poets. I just can't make a choice.

I have read Gwendolyn Brooks. I love her poems. I have always wanted to read Rita Dove. I have heard her name. I have not read her poems. So, I looked her up online. This is one of her poems.

Wiring Home


Lest the wolves loose their whistles
and shopkeepers inquire,
keep moving, though your knees flush
red as two chapped apples,
keep moving, head up,
past the beggar's cold cup,
past the kiosk's
trumpet tales of
odyssey and heartbreak-
until, turning a corner, you stand,
staring: ambushed
by a window of canaries
bright as a thousand
golden narcissi.


Rita Dove

This is just an example. So, I can chicken out and not give a comment. I am going to choose Rita Dove for the month. Oh, I can't do it. I love Sara Teasdale too.

Hats
April 17, 2006 - 12:35 am
Alchemy


I lift my heart as spring lifts up
A yellow daisy to the rain;
My heart will be a lovely cup
Altho' it holds but pain.


For I shall learn from flower and leaf
That color every drop they hold,
To change the lifeless wine of grief
To living gold.


Sara Teasdale

I love this one too!! It's impossible to choose. Maybe MarjV's hat idea is the best. I just can't do it.

MarjV
April 17, 2006 - 05:28 am
She already did choose from the hat, Hats.

Gwen Brooks was drawn!

"Wiring Home" is a beauty. So shall we all one day see the bright canaries.

Hats
April 17, 2006 - 05:40 am
MarjV,

That just proves my glasses needed cleaning. Sometimes I can miss a post. Anna, forgive me. Gwen Brooks is fine with me.

Scrawler
April 17, 2006 - 11:56 am
Isn't it plain the sheets of moss, except that
they have no tongues, could lecture
all day if they wanted about

spiritual patience? Isn't it clear
the black oaks along the path are standing
as though they were the most frgile of flowers?

Every morning I walk like this around
the pond, thinking; if the doors of my heart
ever close, I am as good as dead.

Every morning, so far, I'm alive. And now
the crows break off from the rest of the darkness
and burst up into the sky -as though

all night they had thought of what they would like
their lives to be, and imagined
their strong, thick wings.

~ Mary Oliver

I like this poem for its imagery. Can't you just see the "moss", the "black oaks" and the crows as they fly off!

I'm looking forward to reading Gwendolyn Brooks next month.

MarjV
April 17, 2006 - 11:57 am
"Bitterness" posted by Jim reminds me of people who seek and seek and by some quirk of fate the simple joys elude them.

MO faces that dilemma squarely and beautifully.

And the "Farm Country" describes that kind of life vividly with no elysian fantasies.

~M

MarjV
April 17, 2006 - 12:07 pm
Who but Mary Oliver would think about moss's capabilities of lecturing about spiritual patience. I love that line in "landscape".

And there are those cawing crows again! "bursting into the sky like they......" Makes one smile to read that.

Hats
April 17, 2006 - 12:16 pm
Scrawler,

Thank you for posting "Landscape:" I never grow tired of the way Mary Oliver describes nature.

Isn't it clear
the black oaks along the path are standing
as though they were the most frgile of flowers?

MarjV
April 17, 2006 - 12:21 pm
I posted this one since I didn't much care for it. It didn't say much to me.

I Looked Up

I looked up and there it was
among the green branches of the pitchpines—

thick bird,
a ruffle of fire trailing over the shoulders and down the back—

color of copper, iron, bronze—
lighting up the dark branches of the pine.

What misery to be afraid of death.
What wretchedness, to believe only in what can be proven.

When I made a little sound
it looked at me, then it looked past me.

Then it rose, the wings enormous and opulent,
and, as I said, wreathed in fire.

Mary Oliver [White Pine]

Hats
April 17, 2006 - 12:28 pm
Mary Oliver doesn't tell us what type of bird, does she? The lines that stand out to me are

What misery to be afraid of death.
What wretchedness, to believe only in what can be proven.


I think the bird is attractive because of its bravery. If courage came in colors, courage would look fiery copper. The bird's colors are like a light in the pine. My mind thinks of boldness.

annafair
April 18, 2006 - 08:06 am
Thunderstorms and rain and darkness and physical therapy classes because I refuse to accept that time has passed and I am no longer 22 and baking a cake for a birthday party on Sat I have sneaked in and read your posts, The poems , the comments and have been lifted by all Jim I had a hard time choosing between Maya Angelou and Gwendolyn Brooks, but sort of tossed a coin in my mind and chose Brooks for one of the poets we would discuss. AS ALWAYS here the door is OPEN and no one is left outside. Regardless of the poet we are discussing.All poets and poems are WELCOME..So no one has to sneak in a poem WE WILL HUG THEM ALL.

I chose today's poem becasue reading it made me full of memories. First my mother loved peonies although she used the country pronunciation and called them "pineys" She had two bushes in the front garden and I recall how thrilled she was when they bloomed each year. Funny though I dont remember seeing them many places and one year when I was about 7 my Aunt Nora and Uncle Reed invited me to go to Kenosha WI to visit his sister, It was summer and hot in St Louis so when we arrived in WI I was not prepared for almost cold weather, My uncles sister and her family owned a large lodge on the edge of town. It must have been a hunting/fishing lodge since the rooms were small with two beds and simple furnishings That night I slept under army blankets with the windows closed. There were the family quarters and the lodge but everywhere were what I found out were vases of peonies. HUGE GLOBES in a glowing white, a strawbery pink and a deep garnet. And the gardens were full of them LArge plants with these magnificient flowers Later I tried to grow them but failed to survive and in the 35 years I have lived here in Va I have only known one person who had them in thier yard >>.any way this poem brought all the memories back as vivid as if they were yesterday ...anna

PEONIES


This morning the green fists of the peonies are getting ready
to break my heart
as the sun rises,
as the sun strokes them with his old, buttery fingers


and they open ---
pools of lace,
white and pink --- and all day the black ants climb over them,


boring their deep and mysterious holes
into the curls,
craving the sweet sap,
taking it away


to their dark, underground cities ---
and all day
under the shifty wind,
as in a dance to the great wedding,


the flowers bend their bright bodies,
and tip their fragrance to the air,
and rise,
their red stems holding


all that dampness and recklessness
gladly and lightly,
and there it is again ---
beauty the brave, the exemplary,


blazing open.
Do you love this world?
Do you cherish your humble and silky life?
Do you adore the green grass, with its terror beneath?


Do you also hurry, half-dressed and barefoot, into the garden,
and softly,
and exclaiming of their dearness,
fill your arms with the white and pink flowers,


with their honeyed heaviness, their lush trembling,
their eagerness
to be wild and perfect for a moment, before they are
nothing, forever?


MARY OLIVER

Scrawler
April 18, 2006 - 03:28 am
I think I like her "nature" poems the best, too Hats. I picked Storm etal. because on Easter we had hail and then the sun came out and then it rained and than [well, you get the drift!]

Storm in Massachusetts, September 1982:

A hot day,
a clear heaven - then
clouds bulge
over the horizon

and the wind turns
like a hundred black swans
and the first faint noise
begins.

I think
of my good life,
I think
of other lives

being blown apart
in field after distant field.
All over the world -
I'm sure of it -

life is much the same
when it's going well-
resonant
and unremarkable.

But who,
not under disaster's seal,
can understand what life is like
when it begins to crumble?

Now the noise is bulbous,
dense, drumming
over the hills,
and approaching.

So safe,
so blank of imagination,
so deadly of heart,
I listen

to those dropped and rolling
rounds of thunder.
They only sound
like gunfire.

~ Mary Oliver

Mary Oliver has an interesting way of reflecting on "life" doesn't she. This way of taking nature and reflection into a single idea is one that I think was also in Marj's poem. The idea of death in that poem and than the idea of life going good or bad in this one - it does remind me of the storm we had here in Oregon on Sunday, but I also have to disagree that life is ever "unremarkable."

MarjV
April 18, 2006 - 06:17 am
Oh, peonies are luscious and sensuous. And so short lived. The Peonie poem brings all that to the fore. But for the ants I'd love to experience and armful of them. Very few grown around here.

MarjV
April 18, 2006 - 07:00 am
"The Storm" poem reminded me of the Katrina hurricane.

These lines say it all :But who,
not under disaster's seal,
can understand what life is like
when it begins to crumble?

And there are other lines equally as vivid.

Normally I enjoy storms. There is a limit at which I head for the basement, furs in tow.

MarjV
April 19, 2006 - 12:16 am
Look and See

This morning, at waterside, a sparrow flew
to a water rock and landed, by error, on the back
of an eider duck; lightly it fluttered off, amused.
The duck, too, was not provoked, but, you might say, was
laughing.

This afternoon a gull sailing over
our house was casually scratching
its stomach of white feathers with one
pink foot as it flew.

Oh Lord, how shining and festive is your gift to us, if we
only look and see.

~ Mary Oliver ~ [Why I Get up Early]

- - - - - - - -

I don't think this poem has been posted. I did theh search

It has several lines that made me giggle - the sparrow, the duck and that silly gull - what can you see today that will make you smile?

annafair
April 19, 2006 - 12:37 am
What a GREAT POEM I havent read that one yet but I decided to print it out because it is so uplifting and like you the antics of the birds made me smile. The doves in my back yard always make me laugh in spring ..as the male pursues the female whose only thought it seems is to eat. One year I did spy them beak to beak entering the shrub where they nested. That made my whole day ...thanks for a lovely way to greet the morning...anna

Alliemae
April 19, 2006 - 02:19 am
...if we only look and see." (MO via MarjV)

Oh what a delightful poem about the birds and ducks...made my day!! (National Latin Exam came in today!!)

I imagine that Mary Oliver must be as wonderful to 'hang out' with as are her poems...this group brings me joy!

Alliemae

Scrawler
April 19, 2006 - 03:42 am
The haze
has us
in a slow, pink
and gray

confusion; everything
we know -
the horizon,
for example,

and the distant
ridge of land -
has vanished,
the boat

glides without a sound
over a sea of curled
and luminous glass,
there are clouds,

in the sky wherever
that is, and clouds
in the water,
and maybe

we have entered heaven
already, the happy boat
sliding
like a bee

down the throat of a huge
damp flower.
Some birds,
like streamers of white silk,

approach crying.
Ah, yes,
how easy,
how familiar

it seems now,
that long
lovely thrusting up and down
of wings.

~ Mary Oliver

I'm not sure if we did this one or not. I liked the stanza: "we have entered heaven/already, the happy boat/ sliding/like a bee." I've never heard anything described as "sliding/like a bee."

MarjV
April 19, 2006 - 04:03 am
That is a new one, Scrawler.

And even if I hadn't done the search I know I would have remembered this: the happy boat sliding like a bee down the throat of a huge damp flower

Can't remember ever thinking about a "happy boat'. But why not! We are here to learn and that concept is very kewl. And the bee sliding down the throat of the flower. Swooooooop! That's a new one also. Rather a sensuous description; could be construed as a sexual metaphor.

It doesn't say it is a sail boat; it does say "gliding soundlessly"; I'm thinking of it as such.

I want to go down to the sea again

Jim in Jeff
April 19, 2006 - 09:20 am
I love MO's "The Sea" too. Is many "sea poems" from others. We could someday do a rousing month of...various poets' sea poems. NOT a nomination of mine to thee just now, dear Annafair.

Still, MO's would be hard to best in a sea-poems contest...IMHO.

The bee sliding down a damp flower...is VERY real imagery. As a kid I've often watched as bees do just that...slide down, lickety-split, itno deep damp flowers. It describes her boat sliding into heaven in...another way. Lots more in her version of "The Sea" I also like.

P.S. - MarjV's renewed lure "down to the sea" brought a grin. I'm pretty sure it's also a Holy Bible verse, the phrase "down to the sea in ships." Old Testament scripture, I'd think.

MarjV
April 19, 2006 - 09:36 am
Here you go , Jim -

They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep. For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof. They mount up to the heaven, they go down again to the depths: their soul is melted because of trouble. They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wits' end. Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses. He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still. Then are they glad because they be quiet; so he bringeth them unto their desired haven.

Psalms, 107:23-30, KJV

Jim in Jeff
April 19, 2006 - 09:42 am
I've been enjoying MO's "A Poetry Handbook." Thanks to those who recommended it here.

It is teaching me what poetry is all about. Before, my love for poetry was simply "gut feelings." Sort of a "I know what I like when I see it" mentality of mine. As in many other things, including Fine Arts, Music, and Literature...a little "book-larnin' shure increases the pleasure.

In MO's Poetry handbook's 122 pages, I'm at about page 70 and just beginning her "free verse" explanations. Before that, was her formal verse structures...which I've been lapping up, not myself knowing much of this technical poetry stuff. As she emphasizes though, a prolific poet does this "stuff" from an internal sense of what's "right," rather than from employing a technique. However, knowing the techniques do help ME to see and enjoy a poem much better.

Today I'll share here MO's poem "White Night." I love many things about it. Especially after I've read first half of her book, enough to see many things she's described...come alive in this poem:

White Night

All night I float in the shallow ponds while the moon wanders burning, bone white, among the milky stems, Once I saw her hand reach to touch the muskrat's small sleek head and it was lovely, oh, I don't want to argue anymore about all the things I thought I could not live without! Soon the muskrat will glide with another into their castle of weeds, morning will rise from the east tangled and brazen, and before that difficult and beautiful hurricane of light I want to flow out across the mother of all waters, I want to lose myself on the black and silky currents, Yawning, gathering the tall lilies of sleep.

- Mary Oliver (from "American Primitive," 1983)

Time doesn't permit a full description of her (gut-felt) techniques that are incorporated in this poem. Thankfully, it's all to a READER'S benefit...and is exactly the mood she, and all poets, hope to create. IMHO, she does that.

Jim in Jeff
April 19, 2006 - 10:01 am
Oh, my! In one of the Psalms! Thanks much, MarjV...!

hats
April 20, 2006 - 08:00 pm
The storms have kept me away from the Poetry Corner for awhile. We are having very bad storms almost daily. Well, "April showers bring May flowers."

Anna,

I loved "Peonies." I could just see the Peonies in my head. MO certainly knows how to describe nature in such a way that makes you relive your time with some part of nature. My mother successfully grew a gardenia. Believe it or not, when my mother died, the gardenia began to wilt and die too. We could not save it.

Scrawler,

"Storm in Massachusetts, September 1982" really speaks to me too. In the past few days I have heard roaring thunder, seen lights blink, and the lightening can brighten a room. It crackles too. Reading MO's poem just made me feel less afraid. It seems as though MO is in the moment with me.

hats
April 20, 2006 - 11:57 pm
Answers

If I envy anyone it must be
My grandmother in a long ago
Green summer, who hurried
Between kitchen and orchard on small
Uneducated feet, and took easily
All shining fruits into her eager hands.


That summer I hurried too, wakened
To books and music and circling philosophies.
I sat in the kitchen sorting through volumes of answers
That could not solve the mystery of the trees.


My grandmother stood among her kettles and ladles.
Smiling, in faulty grammar,
She praised my fortune and urged my lofty career.
So to please her I studied--but I will remember always
How she poured confusion out, how she cooled and labeled
All the wild sauces of the brimming year.


Mary Oliver

When young, it's so easy to think our elders are left in a time gone past. Not true. Quietly, these elders walk around full of wisdom and knowledge. Smiling at the young who think they are moving faster and seeing more behind every page.

I am named after both my grandmothers. Now I am a grandmother myself. Oh my, how time and roles change.

MarjV
April 21, 2006 - 07:26 am
What a great tribute to wise elders is that poem.

My granny was nothing like that - very haughty.

Alliemae
April 22, 2006 - 06:37 pm
I dearly loved this poem!

I was named after my dad's mom; she was my Nanna. Now I am a Nana too!

"...how she cooled and labeled All the wild sauces of the brimming year."

What a wonderful security in these lines...

"Sort of a "I know what I like when I see it" mentality..." (Jim in Jeff)

I've always been that way and should know better, having felt that way about Impressionist Art and appreciating it so much better after a course in it. I'll get that book. Thanks, Jim, for posting that info here.

Alliemae

MarjV
April 22, 2006 - 10:27 pm
I enjoyed the book , Alliemae. Especially the last couple chapters. Later there are a couple lines I wanted to post.

annafair
April 23, 2006 - 01:40 am
The wild storms and pounding rain and SN being down I havent been here and my how I have missed it. I just re-read the posts and MO does so much with her poems. Her expierences paralle mine ..Not my grandmother but my Aunt Nora prepared , and cooked and stirred and canned and made wonderful vapors in her kitchen and jewels on her pantry shelves and the final results the goodness of her efforts in my mouth,

Sorry I cant seem to use spell check so forgive any errors ...

Jim I have to agree with MO's assessment on writing poetry Our professor once asked us why we were writing poetry and my reply was I find I cannot not write ..it seems it demands to be written , as if I am two people and one lives in the here and now and the other is off somewhere expierencing feelings that make demands on my time and life.

Ah I dont have her workbook so I will have to add it to my hoard of books.

I chose today's poem for so many reasons and I will allow you to say what it means to you, It is part of a longer poem and I will finish it and post later but like all of MO;s poems each word can stand alone...hope all is well with everyone The sun is golden and seeping through the wooden shutter at my window.amd lies splintered on my floor.. anna

Have You Ever Tried to Enter the Long Black Branches

Have you ever tried to enter the long black branches
of other lives-
tried to imagine what the crisp fringes , full of honey,
hanging
from the branches of the young locust trees, in early summer,
felt like?


Do you think this world is only an entertainment for you ?


Never to enter the sea and notice how the water divides
with perfect courtesy, to let you in !
Never to lie down on the grass, as though you were the grass!
Never to leap to the air as you open your wings over
the dark acorn of your heart!


No wonder we hear, in your mournful voice, the complaint
that something is missing from your life!


Who can open the door who does not reach for the latch?
Who can travel the miles who does not put one foot
in front of the other, all attentive to what presents itself
continually?
Who will behold the inner chamber who has not observed
with admiration, even with rapture, the outer stone?


Well, there is time left-
fields everywhere invite you into them
And who will care, who will chide you if you wander away
from wherever you are, to look for your soul?


Quickly, then get up, put on your coat, leave your desk!


To put one’s foot into the grass, which is
the mystery, which is death as well as life, and
not be afraid!


To set one’s foot in the door of death , and be overcome
with amazement!


To sit down in front of the weeds, and imagine
god the ten-fingered, sailing out of his house of straw,


nodding this way and that way, to the flowers of the
present hour,


to the song falling out of the mockingbird’s pink mouth,


to the tiplets of the honeysuckle, what have opened
in the night.


To sit down, like a weed among weeds, and rustle in the wind!


Mary Oliver part one of a longer poem

MarjV
April 23, 2006 - 02:36 am
Wow! is my first response to that pome, Anna. Just the first line stunned me.

Have you ever tried to enter the long black branches of other lives- tried to imagine what the crisp fringes , full of honey, hanging from the branches of the young locust trees, in early summer, felt like?

We just can't know. We don't walk in other shoes even if we have, for istance, the same disease. We are each as unique as snowflakes & each the same as all snowflakes being made of snow.

We could spend a week on that "Black Branches" poem.

MarjV
April 23, 2006 - 02:42 am
I had just come across this poem to post when I got waylaid by Anna's post. This one is also an awesome statement:

The Journey

One day you finally knew
what you had to do, and began,
though the voices around you
kept shouting
their bad advice--
though the whole house
began to tremble
and you felt the old tug
at your ankles.
"Mend my life!"
each voice cried.
But you didn't stop.
You knew what you had to do,
though the wind pried
with its stiff fingers
at the very foundations,
though their melancholy
was terrible.
It was already late
enough, and a wild night,
and the road full of fallen
branches and stones.
But little by little,
as you left their voices behind,
the stars began to burn
through the sheets of clouds,
and there was a new voice
which you slowly
recognized as your own,
that kept you company
as you strode deeper and deeper
into the world,
determined to do
the only thing you could do--
determined to save
the only life you could save.

© Mary Oliver.

MO heard the voice. We all have times in our life when we heard he "voice". And what a scramble to follow that strong "voice". Love her journey poem.

Yes, I totally agree - the only life we can save is our own unique life.

And this poem relates to the "Long Black Branches".

Scrawler
April 23, 2006 - 02:56 am
I'm back! It was so frustrating not to have SeniorNet, but I'm back now even if I did go the back way. Perhaps those folks in storms will be cheered by this poem:

The Sunflowers

Come with me
into the field of sunflowers
their faces are burnished disks,
their dry spines

creak like ship masts
their green leaves,
so heavy and many,
fill all day with the sticky

sugars of the sun.
Come with me
to visit the sunflowers, they are shy

but want to be friends;
they have wonderful stories
of when they were young -
the important weather

the wandering crows.
Don't be afraid
to ask them quesions!
Their bright faces,

which follow the sun,
will listen, and all
those rows of seeds -
each one a new life! -

hope for a deeper acquaintance;
each of them, though it stands
in a crowd of many,
like a separate universe,

a lonely, the long work
of turning their lives
into a celebration
is not easy. Come

and let us talk with those modest faces,
the simple garments of leaves,
the coarse roots in the earth
so uprightly burning.

~Mary Oliver

What imagery! I like how Mary Oliver gives the sunflowers the persona of human atributes such as being shy and wanting to be friends. They do seem to follow the sun. I talk to my flowers all the time and yell at the weeds, but when all is said and done the flowers die and the weeds seem to grow and grow, which probably says more about me than about them.

hats
April 23, 2006 - 04:19 am
So many delicious poems. Anna, I love "Black Branches." Marj, I love your comments about "Black Branches." Scrawler, I also love "Sunflowers." I would love to comment on each one of these poems.

Anna, I love "The Long Black Branches." These are my favorite lines.

Never to enter the sea and notice how the water divides
with perfect courtesy, to let you in !
Never to lie down on the grass, as though you were the grass!
Never to leap to the air as you open your wings over
the dark acorn of your heart!


I think in this poem MO is trying to show the wonder of new experiences. Letting ourselves go and opening ourselves to the unknown.

Marj,

I love "The Journey." To hear above all the negative thoughts, our own voice, a newly discovered voice is priceless.

Scrawler,

What can I say! I love Sunflowers. Sunflowers do seem to invite questions and conversations. Blowing in the wind the Sunflower always looks so friendly, full of hospitality.

annafair
April 23, 2006 - 04:26 am
Oh How I have missed this discussion How terrible it was when SN was down and the storms kept my computer at bay. I was hungry to read the poems chosen and the words spoken ...I read the posts and the comments and returned to type the rest of the poem I posted earlier .. The first line shook my soul and I couldnt wait to share it with you ,,,Hats we are waiting for your words ,,I keep saying Thank You God for giving us this means to commuicate My ears are full of stones and I miss so much in the hearing world but here I HEAR ..loud and clear and wonderfully well.. and how many of us listen to the "dark shouter" and never live? anna

Listen , are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?


While the soul, after all ,is only a window;
and the opening of the window is no more difficult
that the awakening from a little sleep.


Only last week I went out among the thorns and said
to the wild roses:
deny me not,
but suffer my devotion.
Then, all afternoon, I sat among them. Maybe


I even heard a curl or two of music, damp and rouge-red,
hurrying from their stubby buds, from their delicate watery bodies.


For how long will you continue to listen to those dark shouters,
caution and prudence?


Fall in! Fall in !


A woman standing in the weeds .
A small boat flounders in the deep waves, and what ‘s coming next
is coming with its own heave and grace


Meanwhile, once in a while, I have chanced , among the quick things,
upon the immutable.
What more could one ask?


And I would touch the faces of the daisies,
and I would bow down
to think about it .


That was then, which hasn’t ended yet.


Now the sun beginis to swing down. Under the peach -light,
I cross the fields and the dunes, I follow the ocean’s edge.


I climb, I backtrack.
I float.
I ramble my way home.


Mary Oliver the rest of the poem

Alliemae
April 23, 2006 - 10:56 pm
I agree...

Alliemae

hats
April 23, 2006 - 11:06 pm
Hi Anna and Alliemae,

I love the words "peach-light." That description sounds so delicious and pretty.

MarjV
April 24, 2006 - 12:56 am
What a marvelous thought is this:

the long work
of turning their lives
into a celebration
is not easy

I think we are also meant to turn our lives into a celebration.

I've seen fields of sunflowers. In fact , this summer, I am just growing sunflowers in my little garden - bought 4 kinds of seeds so we'll see.

hats
April 24, 2006 - 01:01 am
MarjV,

Let us know if the sunflowers come up. Sunflowers are so cheery.

Scrawler
April 25, 2006 - 10:54 am
Its not like I don't have nothing to do. I have a short story that's due on 5/14 that I havn't even started yet, I'm outling my first book in a trilogy in between Hockey and Basketball playoffs, but I missed you all so much. You are like my morning coffee; if I don't get my coffee and SeniorNet I'm a Bear the rest of the day and that's with a capital "B". I too don't hear very well and communicating like this is really a pleasure. At any rate here's another "sea" poem. I can't remember if we discussed this one.

The Waves

The sea
isn't a place
but a fact, and
a mystery

under its green and black
cobbled coat that never
stops moving.
When death

happens on land, on some
hairpin piece of road,
we crawl past,
imagining

over and over that moment
of disaster. After the storm
the other boats didn't
hesitate - they spun out

from teh rickety pier, the men
bent to the nets of turning
the weedy winches.
Surely the sea

is the most beautiful fact
in our universe, but
you won't find a fisherman
who will say so;

what they say is
See you later,
Gulls white as angels scream
as they float in the sun

just off the sterns;
everything is here
that you could ever imagine.
And the bones

of the drowned fisherman
are returned, half a year later,
laden nets.

~ Mary Oliver

This is a very sad poem, but I think sometimes we have to remember that even though Nature can "be the most beautiful fact in our universe" that it is also deadly and we can't take her for granted.

MarjV
April 25, 2006 - 11:17 am
And we definitely cannot take the sea form of water for granted - and do you remember the film : "Perfect Storm" !

In October 1991, a confluence of weather conditions combined to form a killer storm in the North Atlantic. Caught in the storm was the sword-fishing boat Andrea Gail. Magnificent foreshadowing and anticipation fill this true-life drama while minute details of the fishing boats, their gear and the weather are juxtaposed with the sea adventure.

MarjV
April 25, 2006 - 11:24 am
"Snow Geese"

MO catches a glimpse of snow geese flying by . And these last lines collect her thoughts about seeing them again:

Maybe I will, someday, somewhere,
Maybe I won 't.
It doesn't matter.
What matters
is that, when I saw them,
I saw them
as through the veil, secretly, joyfully, clearly.


That brings to mind how I've seen secrets of nature and been so delighted and then they are physically gone but have made a memory dent; also like people we've known during our time here.

annafair
April 26, 2006 - 01:41 am
I am so glad we are back ..I have missed this so much and then the storms here have kept my computer off and not much else to do since I wont do things when it is storming like laundry etc or anything to do with water,. Having had a cousin who was thrown across the kitchen when she approached the sink to get a glass of water and lightning struck the house. So when it is storming I find myself curled up in chair away from windows and doors. And when it wasnt storming SN was down..So I am glad to be here. I need to check the previous posts since all of the buttons did not work at first and I couldnt go back and check.

Cant believe this month has flown..each poet we have discussed has just opened doors in my mind, my heart and my soul. I would never have studied them in such depth without your sharing the poems you have posted and most of all your insight into the poems themselves.

I would like all of you to consider what poets you would like to discuss in the future. We have stayed with the newer poets and I have particulary enjoyed them since they are of our time and relate to the world as we know it now. But there is a part of me that would like to look back to the poets I read and cherished when I was growing up. Still I hate to leave the poets of now ..Please think about this and let me know what direction you think we should go.

It is going on 5AM here but I am going back to bed since this night's storm kept me awake...hope your night was more restful..anna

hats
April 26, 2006 - 05:41 am
Oh, I posted a poem. The whole poem is gone into cyperspace.

MarjV
April 26, 2006 - 05:55 am
Oh Honey Chile - you mean you typed it all out and it has gone. Discouraging

MarjV
April 26, 2006 - 07:40 am
I have not read these as yet but they probably will probe interesting.

Mary Oliver's Poetry

annafair
April 26, 2006 - 07:43 am
Type your poem in Works or whatever wordprocessor you ..include the br in brackets (found when I showed that it didnt print out ) after each line and save it under MO 1 or Mo 2 etc ..you than copy and paste in poetry ..so it cant be lost.it certainly is better than tearing one's hair out I have still to recover from the clash and din of last night's battle of the Gods of thunder and lightning..Expected to see clear skies but instead only a milky dawn, the residue of last nights clouds..sunshine is promised later today but I can see from my window my plants need warm sunlight to recover they are huddled and beaten ..at nearly eleven I am famished ..no breakfast yet ..and the air coming in my windows tells me it is going to be a colder day..How is the weather where you are>>> back later ..anna

hats
April 26, 2006 - 07:48 am
Anna,

Thank you for the helpful tips. It is very dreary and rainy here. So far no storms. It's becoming a rarity to see sunshine.

MarjV,

Thank you for the links. Always helpful.

Alliemae
April 26, 2006 - 08:48 am
...and I feel sad.

Of all of the poems of Mary Oliver's the one which has impacted me the most so far has been "The Journey".

I can't say it was the most beautiful or even the more evocative of lovely memories...but I will never forget its impact.

Thank you all for sharing such a lovely space with me. I have found great peace and gentleness here...just what the world needs IMHO...

Hugs to all*, Alliemae

p.s. Hats...I'm soooooooooooo sorry you lost your post...I know that feeling and that's why before I ever edit now, I not only copy my post but mail it to myself, just in case my aol boots me off!! I also have learned that it's easier to use the 'Send Later' when mailing it to myself when the computer is getting 'wonky'...

  • I love hugs...everyone can 'hear' them and everyone can 'see' them...aren't they wonderful!
  • hats
    April 26, 2006 - 08:51 am
    Alliemae,

    I have taken your advice to heart. You are so kind.

    Scrawler
    April 26, 2006 - 10:54 am
    It was not quite spring, it was
    the gray flux before.

    out of the black wave of sleep she turned,
    enormous beast,

    and welcomed the little ones, blind pink islands
    no bigger than shoes. She washed them;

    she nibbled them with teeth like white tusks;
    she curled down
    beside them like a horizon.

    They snuggled. Each knew what it was:
    an original formed

    in the whirlwind, with no recognition between
    itself and the first streams

    of creation. Together they nuzzled
    her huge flank until she spilled over,

    and they pummeled and pulled her though nipples, and she
    gave them
    the rich river.

    ~ Mary Oliver

    Since we won't be reading Mary Oliver in May or around Mother's Day I thought I'd post this poem now. It had the feel of a Mother's Day poem.

    MarjV
    April 26, 2006 - 11:59 am
    "What WAs Once the Largest Shopping Center in Northern Ohio Was Built Where There Had Been A Pond I used to Visit Every Summer Afternoon"

    Loving the earth, seeing what has been done to it,
    I grow sharp, I grow cold.

    Where will the trilliums go, and the coltsfoot?
    Where will the pond lilies go to continue living
    their simple, pennilless lives, lifting
    their faces of gold?

    Impossible to believe we need so much as the world wants us to buy. I have more clothes, lamps,dishes,paper clips
    than I could possibly use before I die.

    Oh, I would like to live in an empty house,
    with vines for walls, and a carpet of grass
    No plants, no plastic, no fiberglass.

    And I suppose sometime I will.
    Old and cold I will like aparat<,br> from all this buying and selling, with only
    the beautiful earth in my heart.

    Mary Oliver

    - - - - - - An ecology slanted poem, full of a bit of heartbreak
    for loss of some of our natural life. And foretelling
    the time we are part of the earth.

    hats
    April 26, 2006 - 12:14 pm
    MarjV and Scrawler, good poems! MarjV, did you write that one?

    Scrawler, I love the last line.

    and she
    gave them
    the rich river.

    MarjV
    April 26, 2006 - 12:29 pm
    Not me, Hats. Just forgot to type MO's name - but now I have done it.

    MrsSherlock
    April 26, 2006 - 04:25 pm
    Very compelling imagery in the bear poem. About future poets, I certainly enjoy revisiting my old favorites, BUT this exploration of the contemporary poets has been eye-opening. I have gone to places I would not have gone to on my own. All-in-all, I vote we continue reading as we have been reading. Were these poets we have been enjoying chosen because they were award winners? There is certainly enough to choose from there.

    Alliemae
    April 26, 2006 - 08:24 pm
    Scrawler, it most certainly did...thank you so much for posting it.

    "...and they pummeled and pulled her though nipples, and she gave them the rich river.

    It is still an amazement to me how MO and other poets are gifted with such deeply meaningful eloquence.

    Alliemae

    annafair
    April 26, 2006 - 09:27 pm
    Mrs Sherlock no I didnt choose the poets because they were Pulitzer Prize winners It just happened that the poets are some I have read and enjoyed and the rest of the posters have agreed with my choice Although I am open for suggestions. May will see us review another winner and again I just happen to admire her and appreciate her poetry..In my mind every poet is a winner...I am so glad you are with us and enjoying Mary Oliver's poems. I have to say doing a whole month and really , really thinking about the words and sharing what they mean to each of us has been the best gift. I cant think of anything better than to spend time reading poetry and to share it with each of you.

    Alliemae you chose a line that just overwhelmed me ..this has been a month of learning and feeling and for once I think I am at lost for just the right word to say how I feel,

    I have a poem of hers to share..and in a small way I understand what she is saying. Once you start writing poetry every blank page is gift ..one you can put down not only the thoughts of your mind but the thoughts of your heart and soul and it also helps you to appreciate the works of every poet,,,anna '

    FORTY YEARS

    For forty years
    the sheets of white paper have
    passed under my hands and I have tried
    to improve their peaceful


    emptiness putting down
    little curls little shafts
    of letters words
    little flames leaping


    not one page
    was less to me than fascinating
    discursive full of cadence
    its pale nerves hiding


    in the curves of the Qs
    behind the soldierly Hs
    in the webbed feet of the Ws
    forty years


    and again this morning as always
    I am stopped as the world comes back
    wet and beautiful I am thinking
    that language


    is not even a river
    is not a tree is not a green field
    is not even a black ant traveling
    briskly modestly


    from day to day from one
    golden page to another


    Mary Oliver

    Alliemae
    April 27, 2006 - 05:43 am
    I read the poem and all I could see were all the words inside of me that won't come out...

    Images haunt me from a story that is never going to be told if I don't tell it because it is mine...

    But my sheets of paper remain white.

    Where do the thoughts and imagery of the poets come from. I feel like I'm square and they, the writers, undulate...even pulsate...as do many of you in your expressions. But I'm really very fluid and wavy inside...so how do they/you get to those places and then bring them out in one piece?

    I am beginning to see that poetry--writing of any kind--is not different from childbirth. (in re-reading this I see that this metaphor may be a key...a dynamic is not possible with only one side, is it? maybe the words and thoughts are also viable and do their part as well)

    I'm so glad I found this room.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    April 27, 2006 - 06:01 am
    I love this line. 'In this vale of wrath and tears...' I have many times wished I could plug along like that...I've even envied the women in chadoors, contained, sheltered, traveling through their days 'briskly modestly'...of course I would want that brief respite to be of my own choice...there's always the 'wind blowing through one's hair' to return to, isn't there?

    I'm going to have a hard time saying goodbye to this Mary Oliver discussion so I've checked out Amazon and have found her workbook and a first book of poems to buy and keep with me.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    April 27, 2006 - 06:02 am
    Alliemae - if you read MO's Handbook for Poetry you can see how she talkes about "birthing" a poem, as you phrase it, and the many rewrites she does til satisfaction comes or time for the waste basket.

    ~Marj

    hats
    April 27, 2006 - 06:51 am
    The Sun


    Have you ever seen
    anything
    in your life
    more wonderful


    than the way the sun,
    every evening,
    relaxed and easy,
    floats toward the horizon


    and into the clouds or the hills,
    or the rumpled sea,
    and is gone--
    and how it slides again


    out of the blackness,
    every morning,
    on the other side of the world,
    like a red flower


    streaming upward on its heavenly oils,
    say, on a morning in early summer,
    at its perfect imperial distance--
    and have you ever felt for anything
    such wild love--
    do you think there is anywhere, in any language,
    a word billowing enough
    for the pleasure


    that fills you,
    as the sun
    reaches out,
    as it warms you


    as you stand there,
    empty-handed--
    or have you too
    turned from this world--


    or have you too
    gone crazy
    for power,
    for things?


    Mary Oliver

    For weeks it has rained and stormed and the skies have been overcast. Today it is so bright and sunny. It's just beautiful. When I walk outside on a sunny day, I can feel life flowing back into my body. So, I chose this poem because the sun is so important and special, far important than new earrings or new shoes.

    MarjV
    April 27, 2006 - 07:40 am
    What a delightful ode to the sun. I've seen many sun rises and marveled at each one.

    MrsSherlock
    April 27, 2006 - 07:49 am
    I'm a sunset person. What a marvel is a sunset. For billions of years this beauty has been raining down and had a rapt audience for only a few hundred thousand years to worship it.

    annafair
    April 27, 2006 - 09:02 am
    I am so touched by your posts. I have never thought but it is like birthing...and sometimes you carry it longer than nine months before it starts to push out to the light, I have always loved poetry and wrote some verses over the years but it was my husband's death 12 years ago that was the catalyst to writing poetry, It didnt happen immediately, his death was not a surprise but a 2 1/2 event of cancer winning ..and since I thought I was prepared for it I hid my true thoughts,my pain. Since he had been a pilot in USAF and away a lot there was part of me that truly did not accept his death,It was a whole year before I woke up one morning and realized HE WAS NOT COMING HOME>.Even writing that drops me back into that dark despair. I had not visited his grave site at Arlington that whole year for to do so would be an admission of his death. My youngest daughter went with me and it was raining and I stood there in the rain and finally accepted the truth..He was gone and this was not temporary duty but permanent ..When I returned home I started to put all that pain on the my word processor. All of those early poems were about our life, his death and this pain that would not go away. Our local univerisity offered senior classes and I signed up for poetry classes. One thing I learned each poet has thier own voice. You can read the how to and construction etc but in the end it is your voice that speaks, When I could move from the acceptance of his death and write first about nature and then about other subjects and finally even humor I knew I was healing,. I am where I am supposed to be, my husband would cheer me on and my family have embraced my poems because they helped them to move on as well. Even now I write for me ..I write because I cannnot not write and it has been the most liberating thing I have ever done, SO if anyone is teetering on that brink I encourage you to allow yourself to fall in..maybe just put a toe into your feelings ..but dont delay ..because if you are thinking of it YOU NEED TO DO IT ..this is it! There is no tomorrow, not another minute or second to lose.Put a word, any word down on that blank piece of paper and allow yourself the freedom to write what that word says to you ..It has a voice but it needs you to express itself It is waiting ..for you ..I pray you will do this because if you feel this need to write then you must. God Bless you..everyone..anna

    Scrawler
    April 27, 2006 - 09:39 am
    Thanks Marj for the poem you posted. "Loving the earth, seeing what has been done to it, I grow sharp, I grow cold." That really says it all - doesn't it? But, even though I had to give up my forest; I'm happy in my tree house. Everywhere you look from windows to patio doors you see lots and lots of trees. Spring has been wonderful here and I'm looking forward to summer.

    Buck Moon - From the Field Guide to Insects:

    Eighty-eight thousand six-hundred
    different species in North America. In the trees, the grasses
    around us. Maybe more, maybe
    several million on each acre of earth. This one
    as well as any other. Where you are standing
    at dusk. Where the moon
    appears to be climbing the eastern sky. Where the wind
    seems to be traveling through the trees, and the frogs are content in their black ponds or else
    why do they sing? Where you feel
    a power that is not you but flows
    into you like a river. Where you lie down and breathe
    the sweet honey of the grass and count
    the stars; where you fall asleep listening
    to the simple chords repeated, repeated.
    Where, resting, you feel
    the perfection, the rising, the happiness
    of the dark wings.

    ~ Mary Oliver

    I couldn't help wonder if today, now, if I laid down on my back on the grass and watched the stars like I used to as a child I could even hear the sound of "dark wings." There are probably to many distractions around to hear anything but motor cars, people talking etc. Besides they probably would drag me away to the "funny farm" thinking I was delusional laying on the grass like that at my age!

    Alliemae
    April 27, 2006 - 11:40 am
    Thanks, Marj...haven't had a chance to get the book or look through it but I'm glad to hear it's about really basic things. That's what I'm interested in...how these beautiful thoughts got to the page.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    April 27, 2006 - 11:44 am
    yes, it seems that mourning, like poetry, has a life and schedule of its own. i hope you will always remember and be comforted by rain for they say that 'happy the dead the rain falls on'...

    and thank you for the 'do it now'...i've never let myself see me as a writer but i am about to burst...thank you annafair...

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    April 27, 2006 - 01:35 pm
    Alliemae- it's never too late to "burst". Write for yourself if nothing else. Or write for your e-mail pals. I have an e-mail pal that does that.

    ~Marj

    hats
    April 27, 2006 - 01:49 pm
    Alliemae,

    You have my vote of confidence. Have fun! Just let yourself feel free.

    hats
    April 28, 2006 - 06:14 am
    The butterfly's loping flight
    carries it through the country of the leaves
    delicately, and well enough to get it
    where it wants to go, wherever that is, stopping
    here and there to fuzzle the damp throats
    of flowers and the black mud; up
    and down it swings, frenzied and aimless; and sometimes


    for long delicious moments it is perfectly
    lazy, riding motionless in the breeze on the soft stalk
    of some ordinary flower.


    Mary Oliver

    I can just see the beauty of the butterfly and feel its flight. There have been days when I would love to dance freely along like a butterfly. The older I become those times are easier to find or just easier to treasure

    Alliemae
    April 28, 2006 - 07:07 am
    Dear Hats...as always, you express in tenderness...I truly loved the Butterfly poem...

    "for long delicious moments it is perfectly lazy, riding motionless in the breeze on the soft stalk of some ordinary flower."

    If this doesn't make you want to be a butterfly (or at least a 'part-time' butterfly, I don't know what would.

    anna, Marj and Hats...thank you all so much for your words of encouragement.

    Hugs, Alliemae

    MarjV
    April 28, 2006 - 07:57 am
    I love bflys. And that poem fits them just right. Right now , for the past 2 weeks, there has been a white bfly in my back yard. It's so nice because 6 years ago April my beloved Purr boy died and the day after when I was crying crazily in the back yard I noticed this white bfly - and since then there has been one every year at this time. And just one. I noticed yesterday that now there were two twirling around doing a mating or spring dance, or both.

    I try to attract as many bflys as I can in the summer to my yard. I let milkweed grow (to the consternation of a neighbor) because Monarchs like that plant very much; other flowers too of course - they usually let me come quietly right up to them.

    Scrawler
    April 28, 2006 - 10:04 am
    I liked that butterfly poem too. I used to go down to Monterey in October to see the Monarchs when I lived in California - what an experience!

    Harvest Moon - the Mockingbird Sings in the Night:

    No sky could hold
    so much light -
    and here comes the brimming,
    the flooding and streaming
    out of the clouds
    and into the leaves,
    glazing the creeks,
    the smallest ditches!
    And so many stars!
    The sky seems stretched
    like an old black cloth;
    behind it, all
    the celestial fire
    we ever dreamed of!
    And the moon steps lower,
    quietly changing
    her luminous masks, brushing
    everything as she passes
    with her slow hands
    and soft lips -
    clusters of dark grapes,
    apples swinging like lost planets,
    melons cool and heavy as bodies-
    and the mockingbird wakes
    in his hidden castle;
    out of the silver tangle
    of thorns and leaves
    he flutters and tumbles,
    spilling long
    ribbons of music
    over forest and river,
    copse and cloud -
    all heaven and all earth-
    wherever the white moon -
    fancies her small wild prince -
    field after field after field.

    ~ Mary Oliver

    Where I used to live there was a mockingbird that used to wake us all up at 4:00 A.M. along with his best buddy the woodpecker. Very often they would do some kind of strange duet. The woodpecker pecking on the aluminum light pole and the mockingbird trying to imitate him. Very strange indeed!

    hats
    April 28, 2006 - 10:05 am
    MarjV, I think the white butterfly was sent to comfort you.

    Alliemae
    April 28, 2006 - 12:35 pm
    MarjV, I agree with Hats...I truly believe that just as we love and care for our Universe...so does our Universe love and care for us...and sometimes in the most hauntingly precious ways.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    April 28, 2006 - 12:37 pm
    I don't know how you all feel about toads; this poem tickled me. And brought a renewed interest in looking at toads.

    "Look Again"

    WHat you have never noticed about the htoad, probably,
    is that his tongue is attached not to the back of his mouth but
    the front - how far it extends
    when theh fly hesitates on a near-enough leaf! Or that

    his front feet, which are sometimes padded, hold three nimble
    digits - had anyone
    a piano small enough I think the toad could learn
    to play something, a little Mozart maybe, inside
    the cool cellear of the sandy hill - and if

    the eyes bulge they have gold rims,
    and the smile is wide it never fails.
    and the warts, the delicate uplifts of dust-colored skin , are
    neither random nor suggestive of dolor, but rather are
    little streams of jewelry, in patterns of espousal and pleasure,
    running up and down their crooked backs, sweet and alive in the sun,

    Mary Oliver/ Why I Wake Early

    - - - -

    Definition of dolor:mental suffering or anguish : SORROW . I thought maybe it was a misprint , however it isn't.

    Alliemae
    April 28, 2006 - 12:44 pm
    I love a Harvest Moon. And I adore mocking birds! But in full concert and with a 'percussion section'--how amazing! Lucky you, Scrawler!!

    There are times when MO goes into a voluptuousness, as in:

    "And the moon steps lower, quietly changing her luminous masks, brushing everything as she passes with her slow hands and soft lips -"

    What a depth in this poet. And what a range of expression...from the simple wildflowers and butterflies to the moon described as above...this poet is a simple romantic's dream I think.

    Alliemae

    Jim in Jeff
    April 28, 2006 - 04:59 pm
    I've been reading, digesting, and re-reading MO's "Poetry Handbook." It's been...an education! Knowing the techniques of any work-of-art (as is MO's poetry) does help ME to enjoy the work-of-art...much more.

    True, my mind tonight still struggles with many new-to-me concepts:

    iambs, trochees, dactyls, anapests, spondees.

    couplets, tercets/triplets, quatrains, terva rima, Spenserian stanza, sonnets (Italian and English).

    Iambic pentameter, tetrameter, trimeter, dimeter, monometer, hexameter, heptameter, octometer, etc.

    Alliterations; assonance; onomatopoeia; caesura; syllabic verse; free verse; imagery.

    Prose poems. Poems in lyric, narrative, or epic styles.

    BUT...my "much learning" DOES NOT interfere with my reader-enjoyment of her poems. I just can now see more of the "craft" in her poems.

    Is SO MUCH in MO's "Handbook"! She does "practice what she preaches." All her poems adhere, more or less, to her technical rules. But MO does, within those rules, create uniquely-vivid word-pictures for us.

    Many worthy thoughts posted here this past week. Right now, I'm a bit behind, and a bit overwhelmed. Thanks much, good forum friends!

    JoanK
    April 28, 2006 - 07:32 pm
    "I am a sunset person" one of you wrote: another likes the sunrise, like me. Every time, I have chosen a place to live, I have been unaware of what direction it faced. But when I moved in, I found that the room I stayed in the most faced East and had a view of the sunrise. Somehow, I'm drawn to it. I love that poem.

    annafair
    April 29, 2006 - 02:47 am
    Sometimes it is hard to accept the fact that time does march on.Spring has been such a mix here of winter hanging on ..like a fighter that just wont give up..and spring fighting back....one day I am outdoors with short sleeves and summer weight clothes and the next day I have to wear a jacket and turn the heat back on.The glory of April has been shattered with wind and pounding rain..my dogwood's blooms that usually last for several weeks were found scattered on the ground as if they had drifted down instead of being wind torn.

    Before this months poet is replaced by May;s choice I want to thank each of you for your contributions, The poems you have chosen and your feelings about why you loved that particular poem have only added to the delight in truly discovering MO's poetry.

    May;s poet will be different and will make us see another world.Or perhaps the same world but a different view.

    I live in an area where there are birds I never saw when I was growing up in the midwest. Egrets, and herons, and pelican, gulls and sandpipers and and each one has made me breathless to see them in flight or standing silent and still ...I have taken pictures of some but have missed so many since my camera was not with me and thier appearence was a surprise and when they would lift their wings and sail into the sky I would just stand in awe that anything could be so beautiful. So I chose the following poem as my last one for this month....I had a list of all the poems posted but as usual I cant find it ..it is somewhere but even if it has been posted before today it means something to me as I spied an egret standing on the edge of a marshy mud flat ..I did have my camera in the car but was on an overpass and I couldnt stop ...and I thought how many pictures missed because we cannot stop...By the way there is a link to an free online book of poems by Brooks. I will have to post it later since I have the following poem in edit .. Have a great weekend and hopefully May will be spring like and not rush us into summer...anna

    Egrets




    Where the path closed
    down and over,
    through the scumbled leaves,
    fallen branches,
    through the knotted catbrier,<br. I kept going. Finally
    I could not
    save my arms
    from thorns; soon,
    the mosquitoes
    smelled me, hot
    and wounded, and came
    wheeling and whining.
    And that's how I came
    to the edge of the pond:
    black and empty
    except for a spindle
    of bleached reeds
    at the far shore
    which, as I looked,
    wrinkled suddenly
    into three egrets - - -
    a shower
    of white fire!
    Even half-asleep they had
    such faith in the world
    that had made them - - -
    tilting through the water,
    unruffled, sure,
    by the laws
    of their faith not logic,
    they opened their wings
    softly and stepped
    over every dark thing.


    Mary Oliver

    hats
    April 29, 2006 - 04:59 am
    Anna,

    Thank you for posting another wonderful Mary Oliver poem. This May is memorable again because of your wonderful idea, a poet a month. I can relate to the "Egret" poem because my father loved to go fishing. At some creeks in the evenings the mosquitoes could really become monstrous, especially around my ankles. For some reason my father never seemed bothered by those mosquitoes. I suppose when the fish are biting that's all that matters.

    Looking forward to Gwendolyn Brooks. Thank you again for the Poetry Corner.

    Scrawler
    April 29, 2006 - 10:56 am
    They will come in their own time
    Probably in the black
    Funnel of the night,
    And probably in secret-
    No one will see
    Their marvelous coming
    But the other goats,
    And Maple the pony.

    Now, on the evening
    Of the last counted day,
    We latch the stable door.
    As the white moon rises
    She settles to her knees.

    Her curious yellow eyes-
    Old as the stones
    Of Greece, of the mountains
    That were born with the world -
    Look at us in friendship,
    And then look away,

    Inward. Inward,
    To the sacred groves.

    ~ Mary Oliver

    I'm not at all sure if I really understand this one, but I liked the beat of it. Thanks for all the wonderful posts. I'm sure that you re right that with Gwendolyn Brooks we'll see a very different world. Interesting isn't it how so many poets can see the same world that we see in such varying shades.

    Jim, I thought you'd be out fishing by now, but I guess fishing season doesn't start before May 1.

    Jim in Jeff
    April 29, 2006 - 03:44 pm
    JoanK...both sunsets and sunrises turn me on. But...I'm told that I'm easy.

    I'm a 1st-40-yrs mid-west landlubber...now returned to same, 28 yrs later. However, I most love sunsets/sunrises from an ocean-shore view. So...on east coast, looking East, I most enjoyed sunrises. However...I've vacationed in Naples, Florida several times. And in Naples the residential streets dead-end at Gulf of Mexico to the west. And THAT, forum friends, is one of the most fantastic pure-water SUNSETS that I've ever seen.

    I've described New England's 100-yrs-ago Luminism painting-style here earlier. It is landscape painting (but with the "land" being mostly water, sky, and boat silhouettes). Luminism also implies that there's a light-source that seems to "emanate" from the core of the painting. Being New England painters mostly, the light source is usually the moon (altho there's been a few good Luminist morning-paintings too. WEST COAST painters would, I suspect, paint from a similar but entirely opposite perspective; i.e., mostly sunsets.

    Re: Saving one's post...till it's solidly posted: If it's going to be a long post that I'm creating, I do it one step shorter than Annafair's. Hers works best. Mine's a step shorter.

    While in Seniornet forums, and getting the urge to post a reply (as I'm doing here):

    1. I'll minimize seniornet; and open up a word-processor (I like notepad).

    2. I'll type most of my reply-thoughts in notepad. And then SELECT ALL/COPY it to that invisible hold-area usually called "clipboard."

    3. Then I'll do an ALT/TAB, which switches me to next window (which, if I've nothing else going on right then, will be back to SENIORNET.

    4. In Seniornet, I'll start my reply and do a PASTE (from clipboard to body of my composing msg). Then I can tweak the words in it a bit more before POSTing it.

    Hope that makes sense and is a helpful technique for some. It's mine. I only lose my pending post if there's an abrupt intermediate power failure at my house...which isn't often.

    Scrawler, thanks for remembering my goal to "do some quality fishing" this Spring. It's pretty much "open season" all year for us "senior citizens" in Missouri. However, fishing entails dabbling in water...and COLD water isn't fun for me.

    I do have my brand-new fishing rod, tackle box, box for ice (to preserve my many catches), and my "how-to-cook-a-fish" book. Spread out in my living-room where I'm rehearsing them, and about to make use of them...SOON (God willing and the creeks don't rise).

    I've no first-thought VALID ideas about meanings in MO's "Hannah's Children." Others here might. I too like its "rhythm." I'll chew on it a while longer.

    Alliemae
    April 29, 2006 - 04:58 pm
    Scrawler, what a timely poem...I didn't understand it quite either, but it touched a cord inside me...and it's worth reading again and again.

    Thank you.

    Alliemae

    hats
    April 30, 2006 - 03:51 am
    Jim in Jeff, your hints are very helpful. I am going to bookmark your ideas for use. Thanks.

    Allie and Jim I agree. I love "Hannah's Children." I have no comment. Allie says it best. "It strikes a cord." Maybe poems don't always need to be analyzed. Maybe some are just for digestion and regurgitation, in the process, we are left with just a mood, a feeling that we like, someplace we have gone and can't remember. Maybe?

    Scrawler, thank you for posting that poem. I very much enjoyed it.

    annafair
    April 30, 2006 - 04:21 am
    Allie says it best. "It strikes a cord." Maybe poems don't always need to be analyzed. Maybe some are just for digestion and regurgitation, in the process, we are left with just a mood, a feeling that we like, someplace we have gone and can't remember. Maybe? And Hats you add just the right comment I dont think any of us could have said it better,,thanks

    Lots of poems strike me this way and they are no less a treasure because I dont truly understand where the poet has been but whoever the poet they have taken me along and I feel at sometime I was there too and my spirit recognizes theirs...

    Thanks for posting the poem Scrawler Feel free to post another poem but in my mind this one and the thoughts expressed have put the perfect end on a perfect month ..And when midnight arrives so will I with a poem from our May poet Gwendolyn Brooks ...thanks for a truly special month. anna

    MarjV
    April 30, 2006 - 12:49 pm
    Here's a link with my last Mary Oliver poem offering.

    How Everything Adores Being Alive

    hats
    April 30, 2006 - 02:09 pm
    Marj,

    Thank you. Wow! I am at a loss to express my feelings. It's a beautiful poem and a beautiful link. I have enjoyed this month so much. Thanks to everybody.

    Jim in Jeff
    April 30, 2006 - 06:06 pm
    That's a keeper, MarjV.

    annafair
    April 30, 2006 - 11:57 pm
    Thanks so much Marj...Here in Virginia the parks nearest me have scenes like that ...in fact many people have yards that are similiar ..May's poet may not paint the same picture for us. I had a hard time choosing a poem to begin this months discussions. There is a lot of pain in Gwendolyn Brooks poems I have used one I found on line and today I will either buy one of her books or go to the library. Still I understand her poetry for many reasons. Some of my mother's relatives , her older brothers who left home when their father died at 42 and entered the hard scrabble life.of sharecropping. Her poems are more of the inner cities but for many thier lives were the same .. here is the one I chose to start this month. It is a cry for understanding ...there are all sorts of wars and I havent read an explanation of the poem but wars can be fought on the streets and shores of other lands and also in the streets of where you live. I noted in Pacific time May had not arrived Here it is already 3 hours old..anna

    THE SONNET - BALLAD


    Oh mother, mother, where is happiness?
    They took my lover's tallness off to war,
    Left me lamenting. Now I cannot guess
    What I can use an empty heart-cup for.
    He won't be coming back here any more.
    Some day the war will end, but, oh, I knew
    When he went walking grandly out that door
    That my sweet love would have to be untrue.
    Would have to be untrue. Would have to court
    Coquettish death, whose impudent and strange
    Possessive arms and beauty (of a sort)
    Can make a hard man hesitate--and change.
    And he will be the one to stammer, "Yes."
    Oh mother, mother, where is happiness?


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    hats
    May 1, 2006 - 02:48 am
    This is a very sad poem. Automatically, my mind thinks that the man is a soldier going off to war. His wife or love is not sure of his return. For all wives of soldiers there is that question mark as their men walk "grandly" out the door. I liked this poem immediately. Anna, thank you for getting us off on a good foot.

    "They took my lover's tallness off to war" Her husband or love must have been a tall man or maybe he was tall in character: loving, loyal and now, maybe a sacrificial lamb for his country.

    MarjV
    May 1, 2006 - 05:26 am
    These are strong words from that poem. And strange ; I have a feeling that I can't put into words as yet. Except that war changes warriors- how else could they survive - they have to "court" ; they have to be engaged with it.

    Would have to court
    Coquettish death, whose impudent and strange
    Possessive arms and beauty (of a sort)
    Can make a hard man hesitate--and change

    hats
    May 1, 2006 - 05:38 am
    The Crazy Woman




    I shall not sing a May song.
    A May song should be gay.
    I'll wait until November
    And sing a song of gray.


    I'll wait until November
    That is the time for me.
    I'll go out in the frosty dark
    And sing most terribly.


    And all the little people
    Will stare at me and say,
    "That is the Crazy Woman
    Who would not sing in May."


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    I think this poem is about trying to put ourselves in the shoes of other people. Because we are having a wonderful day, a great month or a grand year does not mean another person is having the same experience. Our happy and sad experiences flow at different times. Sometimes people are called insane simply because they are travelling down a different road in life. Without understanding, there is the temptation to call these people cruel names. I think this poem is a cry for humanity to understand that life, at times, is difficult, like a cold November month. It's impossible for everyday to be a May day, a spring day.

    hats
    May 1, 2006 - 05:49 am
    MarjV,

    I think you are right. I could not get a meaning for those words. It does make sense. War is so brutal it can change a man's heart. I didn't know how to fit the word "court" in. I definitely connect with your comment.

    Alliemae
    May 1, 2006 - 05:54 am
    "Because we are having a wonderful day, a great month or a grand year does not mean another person is having the same experience." Hats

    Hats, I always admire the depth of your insight...I can learn a lot from this poem...and you. You have put the poem into a whole new light for me. Thanks.

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 1, 2006 - 06:02 am
    Gwen Brooks

    hats
    May 1, 2006 - 06:02 am
    Hi Allie!

    MarjV
    May 1, 2006 - 06:07 am
    Re: The Crazy Woman "about trying to put ourselves in the shoes of other people..." (Hats)

    "Because we are having a wonderful day, a great month or a grand year does not mean another person is having the same experience." Hats


    You definitely wrapped that up beautifully, Hats. How many people do we meet that want us to feel the same way you do; can't stand it because we might not think a day is beautiful; want to be in control. And when I am in the "negative" mode I. quite frankly, want to sock those "May" people. I always felt that way about the song "Don't worry, be Happy" - while there is some truth to it's lyrics we can't pretend. That makes it worse. Takes awhile to work out of "November".

    I think that poem is just beautiful in its simple understanding of our emotional tracks.

    hats
    May 1, 2006 - 06:12 am
    MarjV,

    I love your post! Exactly. When I am in the month of November, I want my friends to understand me. My May day will come again. Time is what is needed. I feel the same way. I want to "sock" the people who don't give me space to feel and not pretend.

    MarjV
    May 1, 2006 - 06:34 am
    Now I cannot guess
    What I can use an empty heart-cup for.


    I was just thinking about this line in the " Sonnet" post. What an exquisite way to express loss.

    And then I was smiling while thinking about how Brooks caputred the business of the "courting" of war. We would go round and round in prose trying to explain what we think she was saying and she , the poet, could do it in those few lines. And ours is in our head. And just think, without that poem, we would scarely be thinking along those lines.

    ~Marj

    hats
    May 1, 2006 - 06:36 am
    That's why poetry is so special.

    annafair
    May 1, 2006 - 06:38 am
    Just jumped right in here.. Hats the poem you chose was my second choice this morning,. I think I chose the first one because I have seen and I would think most of you would too .. how war changes us. And sometimes it is very hard for those that remain behind to understand when it changes the persons they love.I know I dated during WWII and wrote letters to the young men who went off to war, When they returned they had been in a place where I could not go ,, even with all my attempts at understanding and trying. For me it was sad , not because of what I lost but because of what they lost.

    And you made me laugh at socking someone who just doesnt understand when you are in November and the month is May...I felt that way lately because when I put my Christmas tree up in Dec 2004 I have left it there deciding who cares and in summer I can turn its lights on and enjoy remembering all the years when my husband was alive and the children were small.Several friends have almost demanded I allow them to take it down with promises to reassemble come Christmas and yesterday a friend asked if it was still up. I HAVE NO INTENTION OF EVER TAKING IT DOWN..well perhaps to dust it a bit and I do check to see if spiders have found it attractive,

    And thanks for that link , It was not one I found or read, I am looking forward to this month and have made a decision about June's poet. I think in terms of reading the poetry of people from different backgrounds , different countries, and learn from thier poetry where they have been and how they viewed thier world and ours.

    We need to step into the dark side of life as well as the light side and when we are finished we will be better for it. So ON TO THIS MONTH with Gwendolyn Brooks .. Going out in a bit and find a book of her poems. Nice day here and I hope yours is the same...hugs and smiles across the miles to each. anna

    MrsSherlock
    May 1, 2006 - 07:30 am
    Doesn't "court" mean woo? It seems to me to express that terrible ambivalence men have about battle.

    annafair
    May 1, 2006 - 08:48 am
    You are so right ..and that came to mind. My husband was in the Air Force and all of my five brothers were in service. The two youngest made a career of it and retired after 30 years seeing action in Korea and Vietnam and spending most of their careers in places outside the states.

    I live within five miles of a huge army base. This past weekend a whole group of nearly 5O re-enlisted. Men and women and many of them have already served in Iraq from this base and in the newspaper and TV account they expressed a willingness to return.And I think even as they say that many are ambivalent about war itself.anna

    Scrawler
    May 1, 2006 - 10:30 am
    You folks were up early or is it just that I live on the west coast. I have a feeling that Brooks poems will be harder and easier to understand depending on our various experiences in life.

    My Little 'Bout-Town Gal

    Roger of Rhodes

    My little 'bout-town gal has gone
    'Bout town with powder and blue dye
    On her pale lids and on her lips
    Dye sits quite carminely.

    I'm scarcely healthy-hearted or human.
    What can I teach my cheated Woman?

    My Tondeleyo, my black blonde
    Will not be homing soon.
    None shall secure her save the late the
    Detective fingers of the moon.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    Does anyone know what "carminely" means? I do like that last line: "Detective fingers of the moon." When the moon shines on you it does seem like the spot light the detectives used to shine on their suspects in B movies.

    MarjV
    May 1, 2006 - 01:02 pm
    Since carmine means: 1 : a rich crimson or scarlet lake made from cochineal 2 : a vivid red ; then I feel she was making a point about how vividly red were the lips. Taking poetic license as it were to coin a word. Love how poets do that.

    And that last phrase IS great. The moon will be all that knows his black blonde is about.

    hats
    May 1, 2006 - 01:14 pm
    Scrawler,

    This is a tough one. I will need to reread it. Is it told from a man's point of view or a woman's point of view???

    MarjV
    May 1, 2006 - 03:44 pm
    When you reread, Hats, you will see the "narrator" is a man. I'm presuming this is a heterosexual relationship in the poem.

    JoanK
    May 2, 2006 - 12:31 am
    What a different poet from Oliver. I'm glad we have such diversity, but since I'm still in my November of mourning my husband, I may skip some of her Novembers. I'm too selfish to share.

    hats
    May 2, 2006 - 05:20 am
    Gwendolyn Brooks - To Be In Love



    To be in love
    Is to touch with a lighter hand.
    In yourself you stretch, you are well.
    You look at things
    Through his eyes.
    A cardinal is red.
    A sky is blue.
    Suddenly you know he knows too.
    He is not there but
    You know you are tasting together
    The winter, or a light spring weather.
    His hand to take your hand is overmuch.
    Too much to bear.
    You cannot look in his eyes
    Because your pulse must not say
    What must not be said.
    When he
    Shuts a door-
    Is not there_
    Your arms are water.
    And you are free
    With a ghastly freedom.
    You are the beautiful half
    Of a golden hurt.
    You remember and covet his mouth
    To touch, to whisper on.
    Oh when to declare
    Is certain Death!
    Oh when to apprize
    Is to mesmerize,
    To see fall down, the Column of Gold,
    Into the commonest ash.


    I remember puppy love. All of these feelings are what I felt. When you fall in love, colors are brighter. When you are not in love, colors are dull. When your love walks in the room, your stomach drops, you smile uncontrollably. The hardest part is trying to pretend that you are not noticing him, the special one.

    I remember my girlfriends and I walking pass a boy's house two or three times a day in the summer. We hoped "he" would look out the window and notice our legs in shorts and bobbysox. We thought our legs were nicely shaped. Now I know our legs were skinny. How the mind is fooled when young.

    hats
    May 2, 2006 - 05:44 am
    my dreams, my works, must wait till after hell
    by Gwendolyn Brooks


    I hold my honey and I store my bread
    In little jars and cabinets of my will.
    I label clearly, and each latch and lid
    I bid, Be firm till I return from hell.
    I am very hungry. I am incomplete.
    And none can tell when I may dine again.
    No man can give me any word but Wait,
    The puny light. I keep eyes pointed in;
    Hoping that, when the devil days of my hurt
    Drag out to their last dregs and I resume
    On such legs as are left me, in such heart
    As I can manage, remember to go home,
    My taste will not have turned insensitive
    To honey and bread old purity could love.


    I really like this poem. It reminds me of "Crazy Woman." The same theme about pain is here today and gone tomorrow. The narrator stores away her goodies for the better days that will come. I think this poem is very optimistic. There is sunshine after the rainy days.

    hats
    May 2, 2006 - 05:48 am
    “Exhaust the little moment. Soon it dies. And be it gash or gold it will not come Again in this identical guise.”

    Alliemae
    May 2, 2006 - 05:57 am
    It's a tentative feeling for me...having read Mary Oliver and now reading Gwendolyn Brooks. And in this poem I am liking her work and don't miss Oliver quite as much...so I feel hopeful about getting to know this new poet and her work.

    I do like the difference in her voices in the last two poems. I'm looking forward to more of her poetry but have seen some that are pretty deep...almost dark...we'll see how I do. She certainly doesn't seem to mince with subject matter.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 2, 2006 - 06:02 am
    Reading those two poems Hats posted is like the quote of GB she used: “Exhaust the little moment. Soon it dies. And be it gash or gold it will not come Again in this identical guise.”

    So many things come into my consciousness reading them over and over. Probably could write reams.

    hats
    May 2, 2006 - 06:29 am
    Hi Marj and Allie,

    In the past few days, I have read some of Gwendolyn Brooks' darker poems. Even in the darker poems I see a side of hope. I can't wait to discuss these poems and learn more about Gwendolyn Brooks. I really enjoyed Mary Oliver. I think Mary Oliver lived by Gwendolyn Brooks' quote, never taking a moment for granted. Someone spoke of sucking the marrow from life. I just can't remember who said it or where I read it or heard it. Oh phooey!

    MarjV
    May 2, 2006 - 06:30 am
    JoanK - we love to have you come by; no need to comment on Novembers.

    hats
    May 2, 2006 - 06:47 am
    MarjV,

    I agree. I love hearing from JoanK.

    MrsSherlock
    May 2, 2006 - 07:36 am
    I takes a while to get into the rhythm of a new poet. Poetry, to me, is a flow of words evoking emotions deep inside me. Brooks unique view is very seductive, seeming easy, but deep, deep. I must work on getting every nuance.

    Scrawler
    May 2, 2006 - 09:26 am
    Lester after the Western:

    Strong Men, riding horses. In the West
    On a range five hundred miles. A Thousand. Reaching
    From dawn to sunset. Rested blue to orange.
    From hope to crying. Except that Strong Men are
    Desert-eyed. Except that Strong Men are
    Pasted to stars already. Have their cars
    Beneath them. Rentless, too. Too broad of chest
    To shrink when the Rough Man hails. To failing
    To redirect the Challenger, when the challenge
    Nicks; slams; buttonholes. Too saddled.

    I am not like that. I pay rent, am addled
    By illegible landlords, run, if robbers call.

    What mannerisms I present, employ,
    Are camouflage, and what my mouths remark
    To word-wall off that broadness of the dark
    Is pitiful.
    I am not brave at all.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    I bet Brooks is braver than she makes out to be if indeed she is writing about herself. I always find it interesting that women can write so well about men. I love that line: "Lester after the Western." I also wondered what you all thought of the style of her writing. First stanza, ten lines. Second stanza, only two lines. Third, stanza, five lines.

    MarjV
    May 2, 2006 - 09:36 am
    There is definitely a glimmer of hope in the "my dreams.... " poem. She saved her honey and bread ; knows she has a spot to return to if she can "manage". Definitely a scene of extreme heartbreak. Like these lines: 'when the devil days of my hurt Drag out to their last dregs '. Devil days would be filled with torment; she hopes she can still taste of the honey and bread.

    Honey has a symbolic meaning of healing. http://www.resurgence.org/resurgence/articles/spowers.htm

    Bread we know is equated with getting the basic necessities, security & warmth of home. Etc. How many places do we know bread is used!!!! Including the religious community http://www.wcg.org/lit/c

    annafair
    May 2, 2006 - 09:51 am
    Ready to post was the same as Hats My Dreams My works Must wait till after Hell My library has two of Brooks books of poetry and should be in tomorrow ..But like Hats I find it is saying Things are bad, really bad but they are going to get better and when they do she will be ready for those days .The person inside is still intact...

    We all have bad days , some so bad like Brooks says it seems like hell.She thinks positive ..though ..and knows inside she will survive ..We all need to think that way...

    Scrawler I am not sure why she broke her poem into three separate parts , perhaps because once she wrote the first part about the men she wanted to speak of herself..And dont we all show to others a bravery we dont feel? Sometimes the place we find ourselves is so bleak and dark we have to speak at least to others and to our inner self to just survive.. Yes this month is going to be a contrast to MO but that is how we learn to see both sides of ourselves.

    Poetry has always helped me to find and recognize both my joys and my despairs..And I think it has always shown there is a glimmer of hope even when the hole where you find yourself seems very deep and very dark,. anna

    MarjV
    May 2, 2006 - 12:20 pm
    Struggling around with the western poem Scrawler posted. Definitely that first long stanza is about the strong men. Then she switches to compare to herself/himself. Her narrator could be a man. The last two verses are no gender specific.

    The long first stanza also reminds me of a cowboy song - it could be set to music. Maybe a Johnny Cash type; then the mournful last two stanzas added.

    Alliemae
    May 2, 2006 - 03:52 pm
    Each time I read the poem,

    "Strong Men, Riding Horses:

    Lester after the Western:"

    I keep wondering what the significance might be between the lines in the first stanza (about the strong men):

    " Rentless, too."

    and,

    "I am not like that. I pay rent, am addled By illegible landlords,"

    in the two lines isolated in the middle of the poem.

    And I can't get over my initial gut response to the poem that it's about 'the man' i.e. possibly 'the law' versus the 'person on the street'...maybe I'm reading an irony into this poem that is not there.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 3, 2006 - 05:23 am
    I think what I was thinking of the differences sometimes in our society between those who must 'pay their dues' and some others who 'think they don't...but really, deep down, they do"

    "Strong Men, riding horses. In the West
    On a range five hundred miles. A Thousand. Reaching
    From dawn to sunset. Rested blue to orange.
    From hope to crying. Except that Strong Men are
    Desert-eyed."


    But are the Strong Men really Desert-eyed? Doesn't all of what one does and doesn't do catch up eventually to be felt, however subtly?

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 3, 2006 - 05:40 am
    I never saw his face at all.
    I never saw his futurefall.
    But I have known this Boy.


    I have always heard him deal with death.
    I have always heard the shout, the volley.
    I have closed my heart-ears late and early.
    And I have killed him ever.


    "Although her poetic voice is objective, there is a strong sense that she--as an observer--is never far from her action. On one level, of course, Brooks is a protest poet; yet her protest evolves through suggestion rather than through a bludgeon. She sets forth the facts without embellishment or interpretation, but the simplicity of the facts makes it impossible for readers to come away unconvinced--despite whatever discomfort they may feel--whether she is writing about suburban ladies who go into the ghetto to give occasional aid or a black mother who has had an abortion." from "Brooks' Life and Career" by Kenny Jackson Williams (in our heading).

    Because I live in the inner city and have heard of, if not seen, boys (and girls) of all races and walks of life who 'died in [my] alley' and because of the situation in Darfour for the past 10 or maybe more years, this poem resonated with me in my frustration of what can I do? And yet, turning a 'deaf ear' as I have had to do many times with current news of our state of the world is not working...not for me...and certainly not for all the children dying for reasons either created or at least tolerated by our society.

    Sorry to have gone into November but this poem really affected me.

    I have even known some of these boys and girls.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 3, 2006 - 07:39 am
    Well, Alliemae, don't be sorry. It is necessary that we do not get too dulled by the constant barrage of news of children in the USA dieing from violence or by the news in Darfur or the street children in Brazil.

    "The Boy died in my Alley" is a torturous poem. I , for one, am happy for the poets who speak up. This is a part of our life. All of a sudden I'm thinking back to Victorian times where the writers brought to the public the atrocities like Dickens in his novels.

    This line: I have closed my heart-ears late and early. And I have killed him ever. lives on to tell us not to close our heart-ears. Even if we spend a kindness on a person we see this day it is keeping our heart-ears open.

    And I think the term "my alley" is a symbol for our own cities, our world.

    hats
    May 3, 2006 - 08:31 am
    "The Boy Died in My Alley" by Gwen Brooks is a very sad poem. I think MarV and Allie gave great comments. I can not think of much to add. I do like Gwendolyn Brooks' use of the word "futurefall." I get the impression that she might have been familiar with this young man from an early age, maybe as a little boy. Seeing him play and laugh did not lead her to think of his "futurefall."

    I think Gwendolyn Brooks deals with guilt in this poem. Later, as he grew older, she might have heard or seen him in bad situations, circumstances which could only lead to trouble. Not knowing what to do, she did not get involved. I think this is what she means by

    I have closed my heart-ears late and early.
    And I have killed him ever.


    I have read many of Gwendolyn Brooks' poems. I feel she had a gift of touching our hearts and making us think and feel concern for people in different walks of life. I read somewhere that she never left her old neighborhood. She lived in her old neighborhood until she died. There is something very praiseworthy about her remaining behind in her old neighborhood.

    Sorry I started later this morning. Some mornings it takes awhile for my mind to wind up and get going.

    MrsSherlock
    May 3, 2006 - 08:51 am
    Boy brings to mind those immortal lines by another poet, No man is an island...Darfur is us to misquote Pogo. Why politicians can't feel as we do?

    hats
    May 3, 2006 - 09:10 am
    Steam Song


    That Song it sing the sweetness
    like a good Song can,
    and make a woman want to
    run out and find her man.


    Ain got no pretty mansion.
    Ain got no ruby ring.
    My man is my only
    necessary thing.


    That song boil up my blood
    like a good Song can.
    It make this woman want to
    run out and find her man.


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    I love this poem. It catches the music and soul of Jazz or the Blues, especially the Blues. The Blues is always about a hungering, a longing, or unfulfilled love. Anyway, I feel like humming Gwendolyn Brooks' words. I like the way she capitalizes the letter "S" too.

    hats
    May 3, 2006 - 09:13 am
    Under the title "Steam Song" is written the words "Hostilica hears Al Green. I love Al Green songs. I am not sure if he is still living. What a voice!

    Scrawler
    May 3, 2006 - 10:00 am
    This is another of Brooks poems that struck a cord in me. When I was living in San Jose, California I lived between two major gangs. After my husband died, I decided to leave and move to Oregon. I had known these kids for most of my adult life. They grew up with my kids, so they knew me like I knew them. When they discovered that my husband had passed away, they used to wait for me to come home from work at the bus stop and help carry my groceries. [Used to scare the "bejebas" out of the bus passengers.] They took care of me and I never asked questions or judged them. I accepted them for who they were. Before I left they helped clean up my condo so I could sell it. Even the real estate broker was surprised at how well they did.

    We Real Cool:

    The Pool Players,
    Seven at the Golden Shovel.

    We real cool. We
    Left school. We

    Lurk late. We
    Strike straight. We

    Sing sin. We
    Thin gin. We

    Jazz June. We
    Die soon.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    I remember the guys and girls were surprised when I told them that as a young girl I would watch my Greek cousins do battle with the rival gangs. I guess each generation think their the "coolest".

    hats
    May 3, 2006 - 10:16 am
    Scrawler,

    I bet you will never forget those kids. I like this poem. I see a warning in it for all young people. Being "cool" is not always the best way to go. Sometimes being "cool" leads to all the wrong temptations: skipping school, drinking or taking pot, staying out late. I remember Nancy Reagan's program, "Just Say No." I think through poetry Gwendolyn Brooks is passing on the same advice. This poem will survive through the ages. Peer pressure to stay "cool" will live on.

    When I was growing up, staying cool meant cutting classes, drinking and going out with boys. I was called "a change of life" baby. So, my parents tended to keep their eyes glued to me. My mom and dad really did have eyes glued to the back of their head. My sister had already married. She was twenty one years older than me. That left me home with two parents who were older than any of my friends parents. Reading became company for me. As some of my friends became early mothers, I, thanks to my mom and dad, had my head stuck in a book. Well, that's enough about me.

    MarjV
    May 3, 2006 - 04:16 pm
    Here is a link to a Voice of America program on the life of Ms Brooks titled "People in America"

    G Brooks

    On this webpage is a poem I like -

    “Corners on the Curving Sky”

    Our earth is round, and, among other things
    That means that you and I can hold completely different
    Points of view and both be right.
    The difference of our positions will show
    Stars in your window. I cannot even imagine.
    Your sky may burn with light,
    While mine, at the same moment,
    Spreads beautiful to darkness.
    Still, we must choose how we separately corner
    The circling universe of our experience
    Once chosen, our cornering will determine
    The message of any star and darkness we encounter.

    - - - -

    How beautifully to present our differences and our sameness. And I believe she is saying we have a duty to voice our "cornering".

    Alliemae
    May 3, 2006 - 08:11 pm
    Your sky may burn with light,
    While mine, at the same moment,
    Spreads beautiful to darkness.


    With such a diverse range of topics and subjects in her poetry, this poem seems to be the 'signiture' of Gwendolyn Brooks...light or heavy, sad or sweet she remains non-judgemental. I like this in her writing.

    Scrawler and Hats I really enjoyed both of your sharings...

    Mrs. Sherlock, yes, I agree...maybe we should have an amendment to our constitution that our political leaders join a poetry discussion like this one. If only...

    MarjV, thanks for the link.

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 01:13 am
    MarjV,

    I love "Corners on the Curving Sky." Gwendolyn wrote that one so precisely and simply, beautiful too. I can't add a word to your comment. Thank you for the link too.

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 01:34 am
    Bronzeville Woman in a Red Hat(hires out to Mrs. Miles)

    They had never had one in the house before.
    The strangeness of it all. Like unleashing
    A lion, really. Poised
    To pounce. A puma. A panther. A black
    Bear.
    There it stood in the door,
    Under a red hat that was rash, but refreshing--
    In a tasteless way, of course--across the dull dare,
    The semi-assault of that extraordinary blackness.
    The slackness
    Of that light pink mouth told little. The eyes told of heavy
    care...
    But that was neither here nor there,
    And nothing to a wage-paying mistress as should
    Be getting her due whether life had been good
    For her slave, or bad.
    There it stood
    In the door. They had never had
    One in the house before.


    I love this poem too. I love this one because it is honest and forthright. This is not the whole poem. It's pretty long. This is a maid's first day on the job. The family never hired a black woman. So, she seems strange like some exotic jungle animal. Since she is looked at as a strange animal, Mrs. Miles is also called "it."

    If you have a heart, it's hard not to feel pain for this woman. She is trying to look her best. She's worn a hat, a red hat. Mrs. Miles is dressed like she is going to church. She wants the job badly. Her eyes are of "heavy care." She knows about hurting. The poem goes on.

    My sister worked in private homes all of her life. So, I can really relate to this poem. In my own life, I have experienced "heavy care." Once you have felt deep sorrow I think the look remains in your eyes. You can hide the heart. You can't hide the eyes.

    What does Gwendolyn Brooks mean by "across the dull dare?" Maybe somebody can help me.

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 01:46 am
    In my post #644, I didn't write Gwendolyn Brooks. I just wrote "Gwendolyn." I wanted to write Gwendolyn Brooks.

    annafair
    May 4, 2006 - 03:41 am
    I have had lower abdominal problem now for over 24 hours and in pain that nothing I have done has lessened., The area feels feverish and I am going to a local ER clinic as soon as it opens. I had a colonoscopy earlier this year which was negative so this may be a return of diverticulitis ..I am only sharing this since they may want to send me to the hospital for study Who knows? but I didnt want you to think I was ignoring you. The local hospitals are very modern and have computers in the room so I can access my email Can you believe that ? I am thinking positive but 36 hours is long enough for this to improve. I am so glad you are finding Gwendolyn Brooks the special poet I found her to be.

    anna

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 03:46 am
    Anna,

    I have been worried about you. Take care. Don't worry about the Poetry Corner. When you can, give us an update. I know it took a lot for you to write this message.

    Alliemae
    May 4, 2006 - 04:48 am
    Hats, re: "Bronzeville Woman in a Red Hat(hires out to Mrs. Miles)" I've searched the web and can't find the poem...did you get it online or in a book? I'd love to read the entire poem. Can you tell me where to look for it?

    Thanks, Alliemae

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 05:15 am
    Hi Allie,

    I have it in a library book titled "Selected Poems." I wish you could find it on the web. Then, someone else could post the other lines.

    I am going to look again and try to find it.

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 05:29 am
    Allie,

    You did a good search. I am not coming up with it. I think there is more than one "Bronzeville" poem. Not sure. I am going to look again.

    MarjV
    May 4, 2006 - 05:41 am
    There are many Bronzeville poems.

    There's a book titled "A Street in Bronzeville" so maybe that has the entire collection of Bronzeville poems. c. 1945

    http://www.gale.com/free_resources/bhm/literature/bronzeville.htm

    Love the Red Hat - such a remarkable descriptive poem.

    My Selected Poems has the Red Hat listed as from a book called "The Bean Eaters". Like other poets I think some poems are in several collections.

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 05:44 am
    MarjV,

    I knew you would rescue us. Thanks for the link.

    MarjV
    May 4, 2006 - 05:52 am
    Do you suppose "across the dull dare" could mean that she was dressed in dull colors otherwise.

    I think you could post the rest of that poem in 2 more segments in the next couple days or later today and tomorrow, Hats, for those who don't have a copy of it in a book. I just read thru the rest of it and it certainly is worth posting.

    It definitely needs sharing, for one thing, at how horrid & racist is Mrs Miles!!!!!

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 05:59 am
    MarjV,

    I will post the next part now.

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 06:09 am
    In the door. They had never had
    One in the house before.


    But the Irishwoman had left!
    A message had come.
    Something about a murder at home.
    A daughter's husband--"berserk," that was the phrase:
    The dear man had "gone berserk" And short work--
    With a hammer--had been made
    Of this daughter and her nights and days.
    The Irishwoman(underpaid,
    Mrs. Miles remembered with smiles),
    Who was a perfect jewel, a red-faced trump,
    A good old sort, a baker
    of rum cake, a maker
    Of Mustard, would never return.
    Mrs. Miles had begged the bewitched woman
    To finish, at least, the biscuit blending,
    To tarry till the curry was done,
    To show some concern
    For the burning soup, to attend to the tending
    Of the tossed salad. "Inhuman,"
    Patsy Houlihan had called Mrs. Miles.
    "Inhuman," And a fool." And "a cool
    One."


    The Alert Agency had leafed through its files--
    On short notice could offer
    Only this dusky duffer
    That now made its way to her kitchen and sat on her kitchen
    stool.

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 06:26 am
    Her creamy child kissed by the black maid! square on the
    mouth!
    World yelled, world writhed, world turned to light and rolled
    Into her kitchen, nearly knocked her down.


    Quotations, of course, from baby books were great
    Ready armor;(but her animal distress
    Wore, too and under, a subtler metal dress,
    Inheritance of approximately hate.)
    Say baby shrieked to see his finger bleed,
    Wished human humoring--there was a kind
    Of unintimate love, a love more of the mind
    To order the nebulousness of that need.
    --This was the way to put it, this the relief.
    This sprayed a honey upon marvelous grime.
    This told it possible to postpone the reef.
    Fashioned a huggable darling out of crime.
    Made monster personable in personal sight
    By cracking mirrors down the personal night.


    Disgust crawled through her as she chased the theme.
    She, quite supposing purity despoiled,
    Committed to sourness, disordered, soiled,
    Went in to pry the ordure from the cream.
    Cooing, "Come," (Come out of the cannibal wilderness,
    Dirt, dark, into the sun and bloomful air.
    Return to freshness of your right world, wear
    Sweetness again. Be done with beast, duress.)


    Child with continuing cling issued his No in final fire,
    Kissed back the colored maid,
    Not wise enough to freeze or be afraid.
    Conscious of kindness, easy creature bond.
    Love had been handy and rapid to respond.


    Heat at the hairline, heat between the bowels,
    Examining seeming coarse unnatural scene,
    She saw all things except herself serene:
    Child, big black woman, pretty kitchen towels.

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 06:27 am
    MarjV, that's all of it.

    Allie, I'm sorry you couldn't find it on the internet.

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 06:38 am
    What an awful way to treat the Irish lady. The Irish lady suffered a terrible family loss. All the lady of the house cares about is getting her special dinner ready. This is an uncaring person. Thank goodness people like this are in the minority and not a large part of society.

    Alliemae
    May 4, 2006 - 07:12 am
    Hats, that was so kind and thoughtful for you to post the entire poem. I would have kept looking but I appreciate your thoughtfulness!! There's something about this poem that has captured me...and now I'm off to read more about Gwendolyn Brooks and possibly find her motivation to write this poem...was it out of personal experience I wonder...or someone related their experience to GB...

    It is definitely NOT a poem IMHO, that could have been 'invented' out of anyone's imagination except to put into a poem a condition of society and/or a situation in society.

    How sad. No wonder we have been admonished by the truly wise to be like little children, eh? Works for me...

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 4, 2006 - 07:17 am
    Allie, I agree. Children are so sweet and innocent. If you find any information, please share it.

    MarjV
    May 4, 2006 - 09:28 am
    Here is her obit from the New York Times---

    G Brooks NYT Obit

    A partial quote:wrote about what I saw and heard in the street,"

    Ms. Brooks once said. "I lived in a small second-floor apartment at the corner, and I could look first on one side and then the other. There was my material."

    In Ms. Brooks's early poetry, Chicago's vast black South Side is called Bronzeville. It was "A Street in Bronzeville," her first poetry anthology, that attracted the attention of the literary establishment in 1945.

    The Bronzeville poems were recommended to the editors of Harper & Row by Richard Wright, who admired her ability to capture "the pathos of petty destinies, the whimper of the wounded, the tiny incidents that plague the lives of the desperately poor, and the problems of common prejudice." But it was more than Ms. Brooks's ability to write about struggling black people, particularly black women. There was also her mastery of the language of poetry.

    - - - - -
    Her poetry is definitely from what she saw; what she lived.

    Scrawler
    May 4, 2006 - 09:51 am
    They eat beans mostly, this old yellow pair.
    Dinner is a casual affair.
    Plain chipware on a plain and creaking wood,
    Tin flatware.

    Two who are Mostly Good.
    Two who have lived their day.
    But keep on putting on their clothes
    And putting things away.

    And remembering...
    Remembering, with twinklings and twinges,
    As they lean over the beans in their rented back room that
    is full of beads and receipts and dolls and cloths,
    tobacco crumbs, vases and fringes.

    ~Gwendolyn Brooks

    Thanks for all your posts. I think there is a saddness in this poem, but it goes even deeper; taking reality and giving it a "softness".

    MrsSherlock
    May 4, 2006 - 10:02 am
    Stars in your sky I can't even imagine My mind reels at that little line. So profound.

    Alliemae
    May 4, 2006 - 12:23 pm
    Oh I will...I will...I promise!!

    Alliemae

    Jim in Jeff
    May 4, 2006 - 05:10 pm
    I'm today wishing I could recall that ONE Gwendolyn Brooks poem included in my 1980s late-in-life college course toward my degree(s).

    It was just ONE poem then. Textbook was Norton's "Anthology of American Literature." I seem to recall Brooks' one poem in it then being about "Brown vs Board of Education." However, I'm tonight unable to find an online poem by Brooks resembling that.

    Also, my 2-vol Norton edition then was 4th edition (which is now in its 7th edition...many changes). Here's one worthwhile Brooks' poem, followed by some info about its subject, Emmett Till.

    "The Last Quatrain of the Ballad of Emmett Till" from "Selected Poems," 1963:

    Emmett's mother is a pretty-faced thing;
    the tint of pulled taffy.
    She sits in a red room,
    drinking black coffee.
    She kisses her killed boy.
    And she is sorry.
    Chaos in windy grays
    through a red prairie.

    And here's a brief online blurb about her poem's subject, Emmett Till:

    Emmett Till
    1941-1955
    America's Justice

    Emmett Till's brutal murder in 1955 became a lightning rod for civil rights activists around the country. While visiting relatives in Mississippi, 14-year old Emmett acted on a dare from his Southern cousins and spoke to a White woman in a grocery store.

    A few days later, two White men kidnapped him from his uncle's house, beat him, shot him in the head, and dumped his body in a river. The murderers were acquitted, although they later confessed to the crime.

    Emmett's grief-struck mother recovered his body and held an open-casket funeral to show the world what they had done to her son. The story was covered extensively by both the Black and White media.


    Gwenolyn Brooks' poem describes that stiking event well, in a nutshell.

    hats
    May 5, 2006 - 04:56 am
    This incident is so sad to this very day. Heartbreaking.

    MarjV
    May 5, 2006 - 05:39 am
    Wasn't that an awful incident in our country. I vaguely remember it. The poem is just fantastic - as Jim says it says it all in very few lines.

    Scrawler
    May 5, 2006 - 10:00 am
    I remember Emmett Till. I wasn't much older than he was - sixteen I think, but I lived in an all white neighborhood and went to an all white school, except for one family of blacks. I think Emmett's trial as well as other things was the catalus that set us all thinking about racism. We started to ask alot of questions; that had no answers. We'd lay on the sand in Santa Cruz listening to our new transitor radios and tell ourselves that something should be done about it. What did it for me was watching on TV the police dogs go after young black girls and the police using hoses on children that were my own age.

    Old Mary

    My last defense
    Is the present tense

    It little hurts me now to know
    I shall not go

    Cathedral-hunting in Spain
    Nor cherrying in Michigan or Maine

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    For me the late 50s and early 60s was nothing but living "in the present tense". I never in a hundred years thought I'd be alive past forty. We lived like there was no tomorrow!

    MarjV
    May 5, 2006 - 12:03 pm
    "Old Mary". Now is that a good thing or not to let your dreams go? Or is the poem telling us about being happy in the here and now. Catching each sunbeam for our own.

    MarjV
    May 5, 2006 - 12:07 pm
    I laughed when I read this poem. Such is the childhood self centeredness. And as such is old age - the bowel-work.

    Old Relative - from Annie Allen c1945

    After the baths and bowel-work, he was dead.
    Pillows no longer matter, and getting fed
    And anything that anybody said.

    Whatever was his he never more strictly had,
    Lying in long hesitation. Good or bad.
    Hypothesis, traditional and fad.

    She went in there to muse on being rid
    Of relative beneath the coffin lid.
    No one was by. She stuck her tongue out; slid.

    Since for a week she must not play "Charmaine"
    Or "Honey Bunch," or "Singing in the Rain."

    annafair
    May 5, 2006 - 05:54 pm
    I have read all the posts and like everyone am loving the poetry ..and the comments. After a couple of really bad days and I am now on antibiotic for a urinary infection ( SEE I TELL ALL AUGH) and I expect my Sunday or Monday I will be feeling much better. I did go to the library today to pick up the two copies of Brooks They only hold them for five days and today was the fifth day I told them believe me I would have been here if I could. Both rather old and one was printed I think in the 30's and was printed with a grant so I suspect it was one of her early efforts, I havent had time to read them but was unhappy there were only two in our whole library system! So I went to B&N and bought the only book by our poetess they had,..I am afraid I was a bit snippy because I said My goodness this lady was a Pulitzer Prize winner, and a Poetry Consultant to the Library of Congress. It would seem to me you would have several of her collections! Anyway dear poetry friends give me a day to feel much better and have a chance to read the books I have and return with poem to share.

    I was in the Er from 8 am until I think 2...I really dont know they xrayed me and treated me and sent me home with the prescription for one of the problems and I was so exhausted I went to bed after having some milk and cereal and slept for 8 hours . My dog was so glad when I woke up. and after taking care of him and eating a bit of something I went back to bed and didnt wake until this morning.

    In fact it is only 9pm and I am tired .. I had to take care of some things so I was out for a couple of hours ..I have napped and feel better but tired .. please have a great weekend and when I discover the poem I want to share I will return. Hugs and smiles . anna

    hats
    May 6, 2006 - 12:10 am
    Hi Anna,

    I am glad to hear from you. I felt very worried about you. Get well soon but don't rush.

    hats
    May 6, 2006 - 01:09 am
    a song in the front yard
    by Gwendolyn Brooks


    I’ve stayed in the front yard all my life.
    I want a peek at the back
    Where it’s rough and untended and hungry weed grows.
    A girl gets sick of a rose.


    This is part of a longer poem. Gwendolyn Brooks catches my feelings. This is unquenchable curiosity. How do others do or say it? What makes that person laugh, dance, sing a song, get angry?

    hats
    May 6, 2006 - 01:10 am
    MarjV and Scrawler,

    I enjoyed your poetry posts. I especially like your comments.

    MarjV
    May 6, 2006 - 05:08 am
    I love that poem segment, Hats. What a yearning for adventure. Hmmmmmm. The grass always seems greener...............

    ~Marj

    Alliemae
    May 6, 2006 - 08:30 am
    Yesterday must have been library day!! I managed to find two Gwendolyn Brooks books AND an audiotape of her reciting her own poems (which I have saved for my Saturday layabout!).

    I thought that since we had been talking before about May and November I'd post this poem that GB wote in one of her 1930 notebooks--at the age of 13!--it's called"

    Sweet May the Queen

    April gathered her traveling bags,
    When May came dancing down the road
    With crowns of flowers in her gold hair,
    And laughing at April's heavy load.

    "Ah", sighed April, "I remember well
    When March was sad as I am now,
    And I came dancing my merry way!"
    "Don't cry, sister April, for you'll come again
    With your dewy eyes and great bags of rain;
    But now is my turn to dance and play!:
    And with a joyous laugh, away went May!



    And this second is GB's first published poem, "Eventide," published in American Childhood, October 1930.

    Eventide
    By Gwendolyn Brooks (13 Years)


    When the sun sinks behind the mountains,
    And the sky is besprinkled with color,
    And the neighboring brook is peacefully still,
    With a gentle, silent ripple now and then;
    When the flowers send forth sweet odors,
    And the grass is uncommonly green,
    When the air is tranquilly sweet,
    And children flock to their mothers' sides,

    Then worry flees and comforts preside
    For all know it is welcoming evening.


    The book I'm reading and from which these poems come is A Life of Gwendolyn Brooks by George E. Kent. I'm just in the first chapter but was so touched that such a youngster could write such lovely poetry. I selected these two because, as I said, the May and November theme and the other being her first published poem, but the rest from her notebooks at this young age, and some of her thoughts, are so lovely and deep...like I thought perhaps some of us may have been in our early teens...loving the peace and quiet and just 'thinking about things'...

    I have the entire book to finish and am hoping I find the answer to my earlier question about Ms. Brooks poem on the Bronzeville Woman in the Red Hat (forgive me if that's not the exact title).

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 6, 2006 - 08:33 am
    I know just what you mean...I was so sure when I was that young that by 32, or with a bit of luck 35, it was goodbyesville!! Ah sweet youth!

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 6, 2006 - 08:37 am
    Alliemae,

    Thank you very much for the title of the book. I enjoyed each poem and your comments.

    Alliemae
    May 6, 2006 - 09:43 am
    "Since for a week she must not play "Charmaine" Or "Honey Bunch," or "Singing in the Rain." (MarjV)

    "I want a peek at the back Where it’s rough and untended and hungry weed grows. A girl gets sick of a rose." (Hats)

    Marj and Hats...I remember once I thought of 'irony' when reading another of G B's poems...now I think that was not irony but a dry and droll humor--a tongue in cheek that sees reality and can really enjoy it, for better or for worse!

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 6, 2006 - 10:15 am
    Alliemae - what a good find you had at the library. Do give us any other of her teen year poems you run across. Thanks.

    Scrawler
    May 6, 2006 - 10:42 am
    I think she does write "in tongue and cheek." She has a very definite way of looking at reality.

    Bronzeville Man with a Belt in the Back

    In such an armor he may rise and raid
    The dark cave after midnight, unafraid,
    And slice the shadows with his able sword
    Of good broad nonchalance, hashing them down.

    And come out and accept the gasping crowd,
    Shake off the praises with an airiness.
    And, searching, see love shining in an eye,
    But never smile.

    In such an armor he cannot be slain.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    I have no idea what this poem is about. Maybe somebody can help me out here.

    MrsSherlock
    May 6, 2006 - 11:54 am
    Ah, Scrawler, this is a man to whom show is all. When he is "armored" with his spiffy "Belt in the Back" he can feel invincible. The crowd is clamoring for his attention, but he is cool. Yet, he seeks to one eye with its love shining for him but marches on, seemingly oblivious. How much better she says it all!

    hats
    May 6, 2006 - 11:58 am
    Mrs. Sherlock,

    You say it very well yourself. Scrawler, I like that one.

    MarjV
    May 6, 2006 - 02:14 pm
    I second . That is a very apt description Mrs. S. Could think of no enhancement to your thoughts.

    annafair
    May 6, 2006 - 05:02 pm
    And hope tomorrow to offer one of her poems But everyone certainly has done well Belt in the back Heavens I remember one of my brothers had one It wasnt a real belt but the back was cut in two sections , top and bottom and a belt aross the middle I can recall my brother buying it and bringing it home That is my memory of it but since he was 14 years older my memory may not be perfect.

    Two of my books have a picture of Gwendolyn Brooks and I love her looks. Her smile is sort of a secret smile , one that says Been there Done that .. she exudes an inner joy .and I like this comment .

    "dry and droll humor--a tongue in cheek that sees reality and can really enjoy it, for better or for worse! " to me that seems to sum up our poet. tomorrow I will find the right poem to share . Some you have posted I have seen as I sort of glanced through the books.

    I am much better . and beginning to feel a bit sassy ..but still tired .. so I will take my medicine at 8 ( twice a day 8PM and 8AM) and settle in my bed and read my books.. You are such a neat group. hugs to all ,anna

    MrsSherlock
    May 6, 2006 - 05:04 pm
    Hugs right back, Anna!

    Alliemae
    May 6, 2006 - 09:25 pm
    anna, you have inspired me to write a poem!

    "Stay sassy, Lassie!!"

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 7, 2006 - 12:33 am
    JOHN, WHO IS POOR.


    Oh, little children, be good to John!-
    Who lives so lone and alone.
    Whose Mama must hurry to toil all day.
    Whose Papa is dead and done.
    Give him a berry, boys, when you may
    And, girls, some mint when you can
    And do not ask when his hunger will end
    Nor yet when it began.


    -Gwendolyn Brooks


    I think Gwendolyn Brooks' heart shines through her poetry. Gwendolyn Brooks writes about the poor and desperate. In this one, I am reminded to share and ask questions never.

    Alliemae
    May 7, 2006 - 06:38 am
    MrsSherlock, et al, I had earrings like that once...looked like someone took a small handful of tiny pearls and tossed them at my ears where they were caught and held with the finest of gold colored links.

    I was much younger than...my friends called them my 'catch em' earrings.

    And I, too, felt invincible! Ah, sweet youth!!

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 7, 2006 - 06:41 am
    Hats, I was just thinking that as I read that poem. Gwendolyn Brooks...a strong, sensitive and brilliant and tender woman..but most of all, she looked and she saw and she told, most of the time without unnecessary embellishment.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 7, 2006 - 06:53 am
    I agree.

    GB says reams in her short poems. Much like Langston Hughes was able to write. GB has a softness entwined in the harsh portrals.

    hats
    May 7, 2006 - 07:08 am
    MarjV, I like "harsh portals." So poetic.

    Alliemae
    May 7, 2006 - 07:40 am
    Marj...I like that too...truly poetic!

    Alliemae

    MrsSherlock
    May 7, 2006 - 07:53 am
    Truely her strength, after her skill at catching you in her emotional web, is her brevity. Sheer genius.

    MarjV
    May 7, 2006 - 08:53 am
    Sure couldn't spell this morning - that word was supposed to be portrayals which you figured out.

    Scrawler
    May 7, 2006 - 09:17 am
    Mrs. S. I think you hit it the nail on the head so to speak. Bronzeville man is exactly as you described. Come to think about it my husband used to wear this huge silver belt buckle; it gave him that Cowboy swagger. Hats I liked that poem you shared.

    A Lovely Love:

    Let it be alleys. Let it be a hall
    Whose janitor javelins epithet and thought
    To cheapen hyacinith darkness that we sought
    And played we found, rot, make the petals fall.
    Let it be stairways, and a splintery box
    Where you have thrown me, scraped me with your kiss,
    Have honed me, have released me after this
    Cavern kindness, smiled away our shocks.
    That is the birthright of our lovely love
    In swaddling clothes. Not like that Other one.
    Not lit by any fondling star above.
    Not found by any wise men, either. Run.
    People are coming. They must not catch us here
    Definitionless in this strict atmosphere.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    This is very different than Emily Dickinson's poem that I just committed on in another discussion group. This has the feel of "forbidden love" or rough sex. I wonder is it better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all - whether that be forbidden love or the one with the "star above."

    annafair
    May 7, 2006 - 09:59 am
    Suggesting we study her here for a month I loved ..and now I am so overwhelmed with her ability to capture a truth and put it in poetic form. Below is what I just wrote and copied from my word processor . But many. many thanks to each of you for your choice of poems and for the thoughts you share.

    Well I am sick for some reason I only saved the first lines and none of the poem I will have to retype and post it later. I think my mind is not working well. anna

    MarjV
    May 7, 2006 - 12:02 pm
    What a forbidden love poem is "Lovely Love" !!!

    Vivid language: janitor javelins epithet,cheapen hyacinth darkness , thrown me, honed me. scraped me with your kiss,

    Nobodys going to cheapen her experience - her hyacinth darkness - even tho the janitor wanted to do that. And GB lets us into this scene.

    I assume the narrator is female - usually men are not thrown, etc.

    hats
    May 7, 2006 - 12:05 pm
    I am rereading "Lovely Love." All here are more insightful than me. I am reading it again.

    hats
    May 7, 2006 - 12:08 pm
    I like "Lovely Love." Here are my thoughts. These are teenagers trying to make love in whatever place they can find. The locations for their love are not necessarily clean and nice because their love is not and can not become known to neighbors, parents and the established community. These are the lines that made me think this way.

    That is the birthright of our lovely love
    In swaddling clothes. Not like that Other one.
    Not lit by any fondling star above.
    Not found by any wise men, either. Run.
    People are coming. They must not catch us here

    hats
    May 7, 2006 - 12:19 pm
    Their love is not a pure one in the eyes of society. Their love is not like the love between the ones who brought a Christ child in the world. The "Other One" is capitalized. A "fondling star" might be the star which led the Wisemen on their way. Oh, and the "Wise Men" are mentioned. I can't explain. I do see a religious undertone in "Lovely Love."

    Alliemae
    May 7, 2006 - 01:26 pm
    This poem will surely keep me re-reading and thinking and re-thinking...so many possibilies but most, I think based on at least a similar premise of 'forbidden love', 'rough sex', 'young love' and "Their love is not a pure one in the eyes of society."

    But I think I still want to work on this one...so many of the above mentioned premises don't have an age or place necessarily, except maybe in 'society', either real or perceived. Something in this poem is making me want to continue analyzing. And I am not particularly analytical in art.

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 7, 2006 - 01:44 pm
    Alliemae,

    I feel the same way. I want to keep rereading it. I definitely want to read the posts of others. I am glad Scrawler posted this one. Gwendolyn Brooks is proving that words are fascinating. The title "Lovely Love" reminds me of the first love. What does "Lovely Love" mean? "Lovely Love," I think, is an unforgettable love. I think of a love like Romeo and Juliet's love. A forbidden love and yet, a love which is fulfilling and eternal.

    MrsSherlock
    May 7, 2006 - 02:14 pm
    One of the most glaring, to me, aspects of the poem is that these kids (I agree that they are very young) have no place to go to make love/have sex. No cars, no empty house while the parents are at work, no money for a motel. This is how it must be for those pitiful little 14 year-olds who turn up pregnant. She's looking for something to wipe away the fear and shame so she elevates it to something not quite holy. How sad. GB has xray vision.

    Jim in Jeff
    May 7, 2006 - 02:20 pm
    Your analyses here have made my day! "Lovely Love" has come alive for me...thanks solely to you-all!

    It is, of course, a youthful scene (perhaps just past awkward puberty), one I'm sure we've all faced while growing up. The incident need not be consummated sex. Just a act (kiss, nearness, etc) that we've all "snuck-around" to do. The GUILT is heavy, this behavior not being taught in our Sunday schools. Wasn't even DISCUSSED when most of us, including Gwendolyn, were growing up in a more repressed environment.

    Heck, I was so repressed that I'd blush with shame...if simply caught peeking at a girl's calf barely bared beneath those post-WW-II "New Look" skirts with yards of cloth in them that girls wore in 1940s-early 50s highschools.

    You're all RIGHT ON about the speaker's equating her (or his) sneaky "swaddling clothes" (i.e., babes in sexual feelings perhaps?) encounter with NOT being that of Jesus' birth in Bethlehem. The other clues: capital O, "wise men," etc.

    This "Lovely Love," studied awhile, is NOW for me a...Lovely Poem.

    Re Bronzeville Man With Belt in Back, it helps me to remember that Bronzeville was a poor area of Chicago...with all the typical scenes of poverty, human struggles, unemployment, idleness, etc...and also with just a few folks "lording it over" others in flash, power, connections.

    You've all said it all already...except perhaps that poem's deliberate LAST LINE:

    "In such an armor he cannot be slain."

    To me, this is the man speaking internally (rather than the 3rd-person poet). From MY perspective, Gwendolyn is articulating his WISH that his proud clothes make him more of a he-man. Which, of course we know, is an inadequate, pitifully sad attempt to defend "self" from outer-world hostilities.

    Well...above is just one man's first thoughts about these two intriguing GB poems...enjoyed immensely, BTW, thanks primarily to YOUR earlier insights shared here.

    MarjV
    May 8, 2006 - 10:16 am
    Life for my child is simple, and is good.
    He knows his wish. Yes, but that is not all.
    Because I know mine too.
    And we both want joy of undeep and unabiding things,
    Like kicking over a chair or throwing blocks out of a window
    Or tipping over an ice box pan
    Or snatching down curtains or fingering an electric outlelt
    Or a journey or a friend or an illegal kiss.
    No. There is more to it than that.
    Is is that he has never been afraid.
    Rather, he reaches out and lo the chair falls with a beautiful crash,
    And the blocks fall, down on people's heads,
    And the water comes slooshing sloppily out across the floor,
    And so forth.
    Not that success, for him, is sure, infallible.
    But never has he been afraid to reach.
    His lesions are legion.
    But reaching is his rule.

    - - - - - - -

    Interesting story of child rearing theory. And "his lesions are legion." That says he has suffered hurts from all this boy has tried; nevertheless he keeps striving. Whatever the odds.

    We all know people who have become afraid of striving.

    PS - and for myself I prefer safer "undeep and unabiding" activities.

    MarjV
    May 8, 2006 - 10:17 am
    Great to have Jim pop in with his weekly comments.

    Scrawler
    May 8, 2006 - 11:08 am
    I like that poem you've been posting Marj. One last thought about Lovely Love. I get the feeling that it is a love been the races. Perhaps a white man and black women and that's one reason they can't be seen or even go to a motel etc.

    A Penitent Considers Another Coming of Mary:

    For Reverend Theodore Richardson

    If Mary came would Mary
    Forgive, as Mothers may,
    And sad and second Saviour
    Furnish us today?

    She would not shake her head and leave
    This military air,
    But ratify a modern hay,
    And put her Baby there.

    Mary would not punish men-
    If Mary came again.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    The last two lines I think say it all: "Mary would not punish men/If Mary came again." I'd like to think of the Son of God as a forgiving God who was sent to earth not only to save us from our sins, but also to observe us as men and women. To walk in our shoes so to speak and understand where we are coming from. I picked this poem in honor of all Mothers everywhere - although a few days early.

    hats
    May 8, 2006 - 11:10 am
    MarjV, I agree. I look forward to Jim's comments. I can't say anymore about the poem you posted MarjV. You picked my favorite line "lesions are legion." I like your comment too.

    How wonderful, "Reaching is his rule." "Reaching" is what, I believe, keeps people alive. Not reaching is a slow death especially our age.

    hats
    May 8, 2006 - 11:11 am
    Wow!! Scrawler, I just read your comment about "Lovely Love." I think you are definitely on to something. I never thought about an interacial relationship. Great thought.

    Scrawler, thank you for a Mother's Day poem. I hope all mothers here have a wonderful and memorable day.

    MarjV
    May 8, 2006 - 11:15 am
    Yes, interracial would sure apply to that "love" poem Scrawler posted. I was merely thinking of an age difference or teens much too young.

    hats
    May 8, 2006 - 12:53 pm
    kitchenette building
    by Gwendolyn Brooks


    We are things of dry hours and the involuntary plan,
    Grayed in, and gray. “Dream” makes a giddy sound, not strong
    Like “rent,” “feeding a wife,” “satisfying a man.”


    But could a dream send up through onion fumes
    Its white and violet, fight with fried potatoes
    And yesterday’s garbage ripening in the hall,
    Flutter, or sing an aria down these rooms


    Even if we were willing to let it in,
    Had time to warm it, keep it very clean,
    Anticipate a message, let it begin?


    We wonder. But not well! not for a minute!
    Since Number Five is out of the bathroom now,
    We think of lukewarm water, hope to get in it.


    We wonder. But not well! not for a minute!
    Since Number Five is out of the bathroom now,
    We think of lukewarm water, hope to get in it.


    When life is all about survival in the worst of conditions, is it possible to dream? I think this is what Gwendolyn Brooks is asking in this poem. It's very difficult to dream in some circumstances. Although, if the dream is deeply desired, I think a dream can survive any conditions. This is not to say it's not almost impossible.

    Alliemae
    May 8, 2006 - 08:51 pm
    I wonder if this might have subtle political undertones.

    Meanings I see possible from this poem:

    Would a woman be a gentler and more understanding and patient ruler, preferring to try her best to rehabilitate and at times even habilitate rather than follow the 'shoot em all, let God sort em out' climate we are living in.

    And perhaps more subtly, can a woman be successful in becoming a leader in this world of hawks and wars if she doesn't bow to the current rein of terror and cruelty, thoughtlessness and insensitivity as seen currently on all sides.

    Alliemae

    (I sound jaded, I know...but I have become so weary of a world in which half think like is a replay of the crusades and the other half thinks that life is a cheap spagetti western!)

    Alliemae
    May 8, 2006 - 09:00 pm
    Somehow this reminded me of 'The Bean Eaters' and I loved it for the same reasons.

    Gwendolyn Brooks has a way of portraying everyday people who seem simply accepting their plight but with a dignity which I find almost regal.

    This poet makes me feel that whatever is, is okay.

    Alliemae

    annafair
    May 9, 2006 - 04:23 am
    OH my I am so sorry I will have to come back and read all the posts ..but you wont believe I was back in ER again for 12 hours It seems I have had ( still dont feel so good) something called "stomach flu" I wont go into detail but I cant recall the last time I have felt so ill. My children were really worried as they tell me I looked awful Well I felt awful ..I am still tired and just cant seem to get enough rest,.I am on a limited diet and that is very limited since the things I ususally eat or not on the list. I will stop since my eyes are tired as well as the rest of me I thank you one and all for your posts and for keeping this wonderful discussion going...love to all , anna

    hats
    May 9, 2006 - 04:42 am
    Anna,

    Get well soon.

    MarjV
    May 9, 2006 - 06:30 am
    from Alliemae:(I sound jaded, I know...but I have become so weary of a world in which half think life is a replay of the crusades and the other half thinks that life is a cheap spagetti western!)

    Not jaded to me, Alliemae. I am weary also. And people always having to scramble to be heard and get ahead. I have a dream - for others to respect me and allow me to be who I am; not put me in a senior "box".

    Really like that poem-"kitchenette buildng". It isn't nice one bit. However, it is the way people survive. Reminds me of Langston Hughes dream poems. Can that dream hang on in the midst of squalor - for some it can; for some it doesn't. And for those who don't realize their dream, ever, maybe just the dream itself helps them to survive.

    Hope Anna gets thru this bug & fatigue ok.

    Scrawler
    May 9, 2006 - 10:14 am
    Political overtones? I think that we all need to think about whether a woman can be better politically or at least to some be seen that way. In the not so distant future we might see a woman running for the president of the United States. Personally, I look for the personality of the individual to deterime whether he/she can be a good president. I don't know that women can be any more gentle than men, but personality certainly plays a part.

    Of Robert Frost

    There is a little lightning in his eyes
    Iron at the mouth,
    His brows ride neither too far up nor down.

    He is splendid. With a place to stand.

    Some glowing in the common blood.
    Some specialness within.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    I have to assume that Brooks is speaking about Robert Frost's poems rather than the man himself. I think this poem might be another one of her "tongue and cheek" poems.

    MarjV
    May 9, 2006 - 10:47 am
    I agree with Scrawler - she is writing of the poetry of RF, tongue in cheek. At first I didn't think so - but after reading it a couple times I agreed. Love those last two lines - specialness and commonality!!!!!

    hats
    May 9, 2006 - 12:14 pm
    MarjV and Scrawler,

    Thanks for writing your comments. I read this one. I thought it was about the man, Robert Frost. It makes sense that it's about Robert Frost's poetry. Now I need to read it over again.

    hats
    May 9, 2006 - 12:16 pm
    Really, I don't really get it yet. Maybe I will go to bed with this one and think about it.

    annafair
    May 9, 2006 - 12:38 pm
    here I am weak and tired and still having problems but I wonder cant the Robert Frost poem be both..? The person and the poems? I confess I just dont have the energy to go back and review what you posted while I have been ill.

    But I wanted to share this poem because May also holds Memorial Day This is a day that colored my life. My little grandnother lived with us when I was growing up and each Memorial Day the Flag that was presented to her on the death of my Uncle Tommy who fought in WWI and was gassed and existed ( can some things be called living? ) in Jefferson Barracks VA hospital in St Louis.?

    My mother waited as her three older sons went off to WWII and returned outwardly fine but inward scarred. And her two younger sons joined the service when our father died since her pension was not enough to care for two growing sons.She told them she would manage but they felt a burden and left and like my own husband served in Korea, Vietnam , survived and returned.. to promises that were never kept. Sorry that is a bitter truth. And one I fear will be the same when Iraq is just another war.

    Anyway the poem I am sharing is one that grabs me in a hundred ways. She is thinking ahead about an event and what it will mean and what the result will be. The whole poem is poignant and full of truths.The more I read her poetry the more I am caught by it ...so here is my poem and I hope the effects of this miserable conditions soon subsides ...I am so tired in a number of ways.. And forgive me for feeling sorry for myself. anna

    piano after war


    On a snug evening I shall watch her fingers ,
    Cleverly ringed, declining to clever pink,
    Beg glory from the willing keys. Old hungers
    Will break their coffins, rise to eat and thank.
    And music, warily, like the golden rose
    That sometimes after sunset warms the west,
    Will warm that room, persuasively suffuse
    That room and me, rejuvenate a past.
    But suddenly, across my climbing fever
    Of proud delight--a multiplying cry.
    A cry of bitter dead men who will never
    Attend a gentle make of musical joy.
    Then my thawed eye will go again to ice
    . And stone will shove the softness from my face.


    Gwendolyn Brooks from Gay Chaps at the Bar Lieutenant William Couch in the South Pacific

    MarjV
    May 9, 2006 - 12:46 pm
    "Old Laughter" from The Womanhood section, poem V, Annie Allen c1945

    The men and women long ago
    In Africa, in Africa,
    Knew all there was of joy to know.
    In sunny Africa
    The spices flew from tree to tree.
    The spices trifled in the air
    That carelelssly
    Fondled the twisted hair.

    The men and women richly sang
    In land of gold and green and red.
    The bells of merriment richly rang.

    But richess is long dead,
    Old laughter chilled, old music done
    In bright, bewildered Africa.

    The bamobbo and the cinnamon
    Are sad in Africa.


    - - - - - I like the rhythm to this poem. There is a sadness for history long gone.

    In the third verse I can feel the sadness & almost anger is the short clipped phrases.

    hats
    May 9, 2006 - 01:23 pm
    I like this one. I think the beauty of Africa's land comes through in the lines about: sunny Africa, spices of Africa. Gwendolyn Brooks' talent comes through as she gently flows from happiness to sorrow. I love this one. I am reminded of the poems Langston Hughes wrote about Africa.

    MrsSherlock
    May 9, 2006 - 04:39 pm
    Readint Robert Frost I recalled the image of him at JFK's Inauguration, standing in the falling snow, reading: "The land was ours before we were the land's..." I can almost hear his voice. To me, the poem is about the person.

    hats
    May 10, 2006 - 12:09 am
    Mrs. Sherlock,

    I think it's about the man too. I remember his reading of the poem at the Inauguration. I just can't remember the poem.

    MarjV
    May 10, 2006 - 06:01 am
    After thinking, I decided it is about the person and the poetry he writes. The last two lines are what made me decide it was both . They seem to speak less to physical attributes.

    Some glowing in the common blood.
    Some specialness within

    hats
    May 10, 2006 - 06:05 am
    Duke Ellington


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    The man is forever.
    Blue savoir-faire
    We loved that. We loved
    that dukehood. We loved royalty and riff
    because we could not reach them for ourselves.
    We loved. We love.
    He built a fuzzy blanket all around us.
    He fed us, in such Ways! He
    could educate us toward fulfillment,
    reduce our torrents, maim our hurricanes.
    We listened to that music:
    our caterpillars instantly
    were butterflies. Our sorrows
    sank, in sweet submission.
    We have him!
    The man is forever.
    We have forever
    his sass, his electric Commitment,
    his royalty, his Love.
    He provided philanthropy
    of profound clouds, provided
    shredded silver and red, provided
    steel and feathers.
    We have him!
    The man is forever.
    We have forever
    his sass, his electric Commitment,
    his royalty, his Love.


    I love Duke Ellington too. My favorite song is "Sophisticated Lady." He does have a way of making all painful moments of the past or present disappear as I listen to his music.

    "our caterpillars instantly were butterflies."

    I posted this poem under the one about Robert Frost for a reason. The poem about Robert Frost and Duke Ellington shows Gwendolyn Brooks' ability to look past color. This ability to see beyond race must have given her a wider view of the world. This broadened view of the world must have made her world more beautiful. It certainly makes GB's poetry wonderful.

    hats
    May 10, 2006 - 06:19 am
    I am sorry it took me so long to get the poem here. I need to go follow Jim's helpful tips again.

    Anyway, I think in this poem Gwendolyn Brooks flips from the present to the past. Even though the man is gone. His spirit lives on in his music.

    MrsSherlock
    May 10, 2006 - 07:17 am
    Didn't Duke Ellington write Deep Purple? One for my altime favs AND one I was able to pick out on the piano. A perfect marriage of lyric and melody IMHO.

    Alliemae
    May 10, 2006 - 08:13 am
    This is so funny...I somehow missed the title when I started reading the poem and by the fourth line I suspected it was about Duke Ellington and then after reading on I just knew it had to be!! And then, I scrolled up and noticed the title...

    And then I thought...how many poets that I know can let you know the subject of the poem within the first four lines?

    Sometimes I wonder in reading GB's poetry how much we all can learn by 'getting' what we consider 'negative' in our lives...I mean, REALLY owning it and embracing it and making it a positive.

    I love the way some folks make lemonade out of lemons.

    Right now I'm going through a personal patch that has made me print out in lovely font and full page size a copy of The Bean Eaters.

    There really are no accidents in life I think...this was the perfect time for me to be reading Gwendolyn Brooks.

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 10, 2006 - 08:23 am
    Mrs. Sherlock I am sure you are right about "Deep Purple."

    Alliemae, I like your thoughts about "no accidents in life."

    Scrawler
    May 10, 2006 - 10:08 am
    I loved your posts and what great thoughts about the poems. I too think about Memorial Day. I was born during WWII and all the men in my life fought in a war except my son and he died before he could get to Iraq. Everytime I see another comment on the numbers of dead in Iraq I want to cry inside. When I was eighteen I thought I could change the world, but in fact now at 60+ I'm not sure I can change myself. I do feel for the young men and women who have to fight and who will eventually have to face even greater mental images that they will never forget and perhaps even change their young lives forever. Sometimes the dead are the lucky ones.

    A Street in Bronzeville

    to David and Keziah Brooks

    kitchenette building

    We are things of dry hours and the involuntary plan,
    Grayed in, and gray. "Dream" makes a giddy sound, not
    strong

    Like "rent," "feeding a wife," "satisfying a man."

    But could a dream send up through onion fumes
    Its white and violet, fight with fried potatoes
    And yesterday's garbage ripening in the hall,
    Flutter, or sing an aria down these rooms

    Even if we were willing to let it in,
    Had time to wrm it, keep it very clean,
    Anticipate a message, let it begin?

    We wonder. But not well! not for a minute!
    Since Number Five is out of the bathroom now
    We think of lukewarm water, hope to get in it.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    How true! It is hard to dream when you are working hard to provide for your family, but its really that time of our lives that dreaming is most important!

    annafair
    May 10, 2006 - 01:22 pm
    I saw my doctor today and he said this "thing " has been going around but told me not the have the prescriptions given filled and changed my medicine I do take. but I read your posts and want to say

    "There really are no accidents in life I think...this was the perfect time for me to be reading Gwendolyn Brooks" I couldnt have said this better myself,Thanks alliemae for that quote. I did pick her name out the 6 I had chosen but once we got into her poetry and allowed it to seep into our souls I knew God meant us to share her poems this month.

    It just hasnt been a good month and while I felt awful and complained (which is a nice way to say what I really did and it rhymes with witch) Her photograph on my book just looked me straight in fhe eye and SAID lady I have been there and done that and it will pass. She and I are only separated by a decade and saw a lot of the same things and her feelings somehow rings my bells. By tomorrow God willing and the creek dont rise I will be back to normal ..whatever that is .. God Love you all and thanks ,anna

    Alliemae
    May 10, 2006 - 03:05 pm
    ...consider yourself HUGGED.

    Alliemae

    JoanK
    May 10, 2006 - 05:50 pm
    Oh, Anna. I've been away from this site too long. At first, I thought I couldn't deal with Brooks so soon after my husband's death. Then I was laid low by stomach flu, and was moaning and complaining by myself. You see the result -- I'm so busy whining about ME, I didn't even know you were sick. Do take care of yourself -- as much rest as you need and fluids, fluids, fluids. I didn't get antibiotics, just IV fluid (since I couldn't keep any down). Now tons of ginger ale, bananas and rice. But I ate some boiled chicken yesterday.

    Just now, I read all the Brooks posts, and I love her! I read your comments too fast (the worst of being behind -- you feel rushed), but am glad there is still more of her to go.

    I'm back about a hundred posts ago with the Bronzeville woman with the red hat. One of you (Hats?) asked:

    'What does Gwendolyn Brooks mean by "across the dull dare?" Maybe somebody can help me.'

    I think I do understand that. This black woman standing there seems so threatening, like a dare. She is threatening this (narrow stupid) white woman's whole view of what the universe is like -- full of people she can understand and bully, people who exist only for her needs. This strange person is a dare -- I think "dull" is a reaction to her black skin. But the bright red hat cuts across that dull dare, threatens to make her human.

    A devastating but all too accurate picture of the woman.

    hats
    May 11, 2006 - 02:44 am
    Wow!! JoanK, you are on a roll. I love your comment about "across the dull dare." I still had it on my mind. Your thoughts have relaxed me. That's exactly what it means, I believe.

    Sorry you have been feeling badly. You and AnnaFair have been suffering at the same time. Get totally well very soon.

    MarjV
    May 11, 2006 - 09:46 am
    "Memorial to Ed Bland"...killed in Germany March 20, 1945; volunteerd for special dangerous mission...wanted to see action...(from Annie Allen c.1945)

    He grew up being curious
    And thinking things are various,
    Nothing was merely deleterious
    Or spurious.

    Or good.
    His mother could
    Not keep him from a popping-eyed surpise
    At things. He would
    Be digging everywhere, umtil things gave.
    Or did not give. Among his dusty ruins,
    Suddenly, there'd be his face to see,
    And it queer wonder expression, salted
    With this cool twirling awe.

    Yes.
    People would see this awe and say they saw
    Also what he saw. They could never guess
    What they should think. They did what people do;
    Smiled out - or frowned.
    People like definite decisions,
    Tidy answers, all the little ravelings
    Snipped off, the lint removed, they
    Hop Happily among their roughs
    Calling what they can't cluth insanity
    Or saintliness.

    - - - - - - -

    GB surely had a handle on how people are. You can just see this man as a youngster and also the people who couldn't really respond to him.

    Scrawler
    May 11, 2006 - 10:29 am
    Thanks for the hug. I also loved all the posts. I too think everything happens for a reason. Until I found you all I was very much alone with only my writing, books, music and sports. But now that I've found you it makes those things seem that much better. Your like a cup coffee that I can smell the aroma. It makes be feel good all over.

    A Street in Bronzeville:

    the mother

    Abortions will not let you forget.
    You remember the children you got that you did not get,
    The damp small pulps with a little or with no hair,
    The singers and workers that never handled the air.
    You will never neglect or beat
    Them, or silence or buy with a sweet.
    You will never wind up the sucking-thumbing
    Or scuttle off ghosts that come.
    You will never leave them, controlling your luscious sigh,
    Return for a snack of them, with gobbling mother-eye.

    I have heard in the voices of the wind the voices of my dim
    killed children.
    I have contracted. I have eased
    My dim dears at the breasts they could never suck.
    I have said, Sweets, if I sinned, if I seized
    Your luck
    And your lives from your unfinished reach,
    If I stole your births and your names,
    Your straight baby tears and your games,
    Your stilted or lovely loves, your tumults, your marriages,
    aches, and your deaths,
    If I poisoned the beginnings of your breaths,
    Believe that even in my deliberness I was not deliberate.
    Though why should I whine,
    Whine that the crime was other than mine?-
    Since anyhow you are dead,
    Or rather, or instead,
    You were not made.
    But that too, I am afraid,
    Is faulty: oh, what shall I say, how is the truth to be said?
    You were born, you had body, you died.
    It is just that you never giggled or planned or cried.

    Believe me, I loved you all
    Believe me, I knew you, though faintly, and loved, I loved you
    All.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    This is a very sad poem, but it is full of so much truth. I think it talks not only to the mothers who have had abortions, but also to those of us who have lost our children. There isn't a Mother's Day that I don't think of my son whom I lost when he was only 21 and I am grateful that not only was I there with him when he was born, a child, a teenager, but also when he died. But I am also grateful for the child that survived, my daughter who is struggling through med-school. In short I'm grateful for the privilage of being a part of both there lives even if it was for one what seemed like a very short time.

    JoanK
    May 11, 2006 - 06:02 pm
    Oh, HATS, I'm so glad you said that. I grew up in that narrow, stupid way of thinking, and one of my strong childhood memories is being the only child in a roomful of adults making comments like that woman's -- and even as a child knowing it was wrong, feeling angry and afraid -- and mad at myself because I was so little and the grown-ups were so big and I was afraid to speak out.

    As an adult, I did speak out, but have never lost the anger and fear.

    MarjV
    May 12, 2006 - 09:11 am
    Many links on this website to learn more about Gwendolyn

    Web Guide to Gwendolyn Brooks

    Scrawler
    May 12, 2006 - 10:28 am
    Southeast corner:

    The School of Beauty's a tavern now.
    The Madam is underground.
    Out at Lincoln, among the graves
    Her own is early found.
    Where the thickest, tallest monument
    Cuts grandly into the air
    The Madam lies, contentedly.
    Her fortune, too, lies there,
    Converted into cool hard steel
    And right red velvet lining;
    While over her tan impassivity
    Shot silk is shining.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    Whomever said you can't take it with you? I know what you mean I was a child of the 50s listening to adults talk-talk-talk. Its one of the reasons I rebelled so in the 60s. Unfortunately, we knew what we didn't want, but to define what we wanted was a lot harder to put into words.

    MarjV
    May 12, 2006 - 11:50 am
    Can't think what Gwendolyn was doing here except to provide a portrait of another of the types of people she knew & lived among. A very vivid poem I say. The Madam had her showiness all planned out. Quite a humorous poem.

    MarjV
    May 12, 2006 - 01:26 pm
    From "In Montgomery and Other Poems", published posthumously.

    OLD WOMAN RAP

    Things are different now.
    I'm not strong.
    I dont wanna go out in the yard
    To see what's wronng.

    I don't wanna mow grass,
    For the sun to scorch.
    I don't wanna govern the gutter
    Nor paint the porch.

    I just wanna curl myself into
    A little-old-woman ball.
    Or smile to myself, or eat cherries or catfish
    In a clean room away down a hall.

    - - - - - -

    On my tired days I feel exactly like this woman!

    Try reading it aloud and making it into rap.

    JoanK
    May 12, 2006 - 03:19 pm
    That's EXACTLY the way that I feel!

    MrsSherlock
    May 12, 2006 - 05:09 pm
    Me, too.

    Alliemae
    May 12, 2006 - 06:10 pm
    This is by far one of Gwendolyn Brooks' deepest poems for me.

    Scawler, I agree with your words about it being for both women who have had abortions and women who have lost children in other ways. Even, I might add, to those who have lost their children at times when those children are still living.

    And I agree...we must be grateful for all that we have of our children...in any way.

    Scrawler, I am sure your children are blessed to have you and to have had you...and both live in your heart.

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 12, 2006 - 10:56 pm
    Scrawler,

    I would like to add my sentiments to Alliemae's heartfelt words.

    Alliemae
    May 13, 2006 - 07:45 am
    The more I read of Gwendolyn Brooks the more I appreciate the way she uses colors to intensify the moods of her poetry.

    Her fortune, too, lies there,
    Converted into cool hard steel
    And right red velvet lining;
    While over her tan impassivity
    Shot silk is shining.


    You know, when I first read Bronzeville Woman in a Red Hat I got the feeling that in spite of the weary eyes and withdrawn stance that 'red hat' was worn in silent defiance...and with a hot pride that comes from being considered 'inferior' all your life by some wrong-thinking or unaware others, while you go on day-to-day victorious over life's hardships for yourself and your loved ones.

    Now, here again, we see the 'red velvet lining'...

    We also see cool hard steel and Shot silk...shining, GB does it with textures too. Even though this is a different poem, I can see 'cool hard steel' and 'shot silk shining' in the soul of the Bronzeville woman in a red hat!

    Oh, and one more thing before I go (to quote Maria Schriver's mother)...notice the different hues she assigns or depicts for people in her world of color. "...this old yellow pair...from The Bean Eaters, "Her body is a honey bowl..." and "Her body is like summer earth," in "THE SUNDAYS OF SATIN-LEGS SMITH" (Selected Poems of Gwendolyn Brooks), "While over her tan impassivity..." from the above and, "The semi-assault of that extraordinary blackness." from Bronzeville Woman in a Red Hat."

    In one of her biographies (A Life of Gwendolyn Brooks by George E. Kent) it is mentioned that while she was growing up Gwendolyn Brooks' first encounter with prejudice was the prejudice between the lighter and darker African-Americans in her neighborhood. Maybe this is why she differentiates. Not only does it describe to the reader but it's also a very early formed frame of reference for her.

    I don't think anything Gwendolyn Brooks says is accidental. I really wish I could have known her. I'm glad she left her prose and her poetry.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 13, 2006 - 08:13 am
    I would think every word in GB's works needs to be looked at as a part of the whole thought.

    I like your thoughts about the colors, Alliemae. Thinks for brining it to the fore of my mind. As soon as I read that I thought - why sure.

    Scrawler
    May 13, 2006 - 09:37 am
    Marj I loved that poem - for me I consider myself an Old Woman Boogie rather than a wrap - but I know how she feels.

    I agree that GB uses all the senses to enhance her poems.

    A Street in Bronzeville:

    hunchback girl: she thinks of heaven

    My Father, it is surely a blue place
    And straight. Right. Regular. Where I shall find
    No need for scholarly nonchalance or looks
    A little to the left or guards upon the
    Heart to halt love that runs without crookedness
    Along its crooked corridors. My Father
    It is planned place surely. Out of coils
    Unscrewed, released, no more to be marvelous,
    I shall walk straightly through most proper halls
    Proper myself, pincess of properness.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    I know exactly how this young girl feels about her "hunchback." When I was very young during WWII I had to have several operations on my nose and they put in these "ugly" black tubes that I had to wear in my nostril so I could breath. To this day I still have nightmares of the kids laughing at me because I was different. But it also gave me a time of solitude where I found peace in my writing and poems. See things do happen for a reason.

    Alliemae
    May 13, 2006 - 01:04 pm
    Ohhhhh...I can relate to this poem!! And I love its simplicity...

    I wrote and performed a 'Rap' number once. I was a member of the Anna Crusis Womens Choir in Philly and we were performing a benefit at a Habitat for Humanity site and I wrote a rap and we sang it as we walked onto the make-shift stage.

    I've always been fascinated by rap (even tho I'm more in the '70's' and even before, the 'jitterbug' eras). I have listened to some rap and I think it is important to hear what young people are saying. Granted, some of it didn't suit my fancy at all...but there was some that explained what the youths felt and why they decided to act out about their feelings the way they did. I guess we need to understand symptoms well before we can cure a dys-ease.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 13, 2006 - 01:40 pm
    I like rap - not the obscene rap nor when they drive down our street with it playing full blast.

    MarjV
    May 13, 2006 - 01:46 pm
    "Hunchback Girl" - that is a great poem. So full of prayer-pleading. It crunches right into my heart. Sometimes us elders get looked at that way also- just because we are older. It's beautiful. I had not seen this poem before.

    When I was walking this morning the boy in the next block (I think he is a teen now) who is a victim of Downs syndrome was on his new 3 wheel bike. He looks so proud. On occasion I see him with siblings but never with anyone else.

    Jim in Jeff
    May 13, 2006 - 02:09 pm
    I've finally spotted the one GB poem studied in my American Lit class in mid-1980s. I couldn't recall which poem, until I just now accidentally stumbled onto it. And...it ALL CAME BACK to me.

    This is her unique perspective about a civil-rights event, hot news in 1957. GB's poem is about a reporter from Chicago's newspaper for blacks...being sent to Little Rock to send back color-news on that city's racial event unfolding there then. However, the reporter writes that, despite the real racial-bias event, most of Little Rock's folks seem "just like people everywhere."

    The poem isn't so long that I couldn't type it into here. But the below link has both the words AND a Norman Rockwell painting depicting the event. I especially like GB's three last lines. http://www.ferrum.edu/lwhited/eng206/littlerock.htm

    This 1957 GB poem was still standard college-course material in mid-1980s, I'm happy to report.

    MarjV
    May 14, 2006 - 08:36 am
    G Brooks reads "Tiger....."

    Alliemae
    May 14, 2006 - 09:19 am
    ...and I intend to but you have reminded me to let you all know that the tape I got from the library was filled with many of the poems we have posted and discussed. I listened to it in its entirety yesterday...what a wonderful way to putter around the house.

    I strongly recommend that if you haven't already checked your local library for a cassette of Gwendolyn Brooks reading her own poetry, you try to. She has a wonderful voice and I feel like I know her much better after listening to her. She is as generous with the reader and their right to interpret her poetry themselves in her readings as she is in her writing.

    Marj...did you get 'Tiger...' from an audiotape?

    I'm going to listen to it now.

    Alliemae

    p.s. if anyone is interested to know what is on my library copy of her audiocassette, I don't mind writing the list of poetry GB is reading on it.

    And to all who are and to all who have and to all who have 'other' children, such as their shared creations of writing, poetry, music, art, teaching or loving and caring...HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!!

    Alliemae
    May 14, 2006 - 09:25 am
    Jim, what a wonderful post. I enjoyed it yesterday also. I was in such a Gwendolyn Brooks mood yesterday!

    I recognize the picture of the little girl and your background and the article were really good to be made aware of.

    Gwendolyn Brooks' poem still has me, to paraphrase MrjV, crunched inside my heart...and I read the last line over and over...I still don't know what GB meant when she wrote it but it struck me so hard...you know, whatsoever we do to each other we do also to the Almighty Power...The Oneness...

    Thanks Jim...Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 14, 2006 - 09:38 am
    Isn't it a joy to hear Brooks' voice! She's not quite as overtly expressive in the adult poetry on my tape but still...that large and wonderful voice...

    By the way, I also very much enjoyed Okay, Brown Girl, Okay by James Berry on the same site.

    I, being 'Cool Nana'to ALL my grandchildren (including their friends) and at holidays and other special gift-giving times called 'Book Nana' thank you for bringing this to our attention Marj...a wonderful gift idea for 'all my children'...

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 14, 2006 - 09:45 am
    That's an amazing poem about LIttle Rock that Jim posted the link. Those last 3 lines are harsh and real.

    Love that Norman Rockwell painting - I remember it from Sat. Evening Post.

    And these lines brought a giggle:

    In Little Rock they know
    Not answering the telephone is a way of rejecting life,
    That it is our business to be bothered, is our business
    To cherish bores or boredom, be polite
    To lies and love and many-faceted fuzziness.

    Alliemae
    May 14, 2006 - 11:14 am
    Marj...I picked up on those lines too...and the above made me feel embarrassed and a little rude (though not as rude as the telemarketers I try to escape at any cost!) and might even be an aid to my 'isolationist' policies at home...and maybe if I didn't (and couldn't) screen my calls, well--who knows--life might have some wonderful involvement and surprises waiting for me!

    Alliemae :^)

    JoanK
    May 14, 2006 - 02:47 pm
    I'll go back and listen to Brooks in a minute, but first I have to share something else.

    My daughter, who says she hates poetry, decided the best mothers day present she could give me is to write a poem. Not gwendolyn Brooks, but to me, the best poem I've ever read.

    Because
      

    Because you kissed my boo-boos when I was hurt I became healthy
     

    Because you told me I was pretty when I wasn't I became beautiful
     

    Because you listened to my opinions when I was a fool I became wise
     

    Because you trusted me when I lied I became honest
     

    Because you held my hand when I was scared I became brave
     

    Because you told me I could be whatever I wanted I became confident
     

    Because you led your own life and it was so interesting I became independent
     

    Thank you for being you so I could become me and thank you because I love you
     

    Love, Jody

    Alliemae
    May 14, 2006 - 04:04 pm
    Joan, what a lovely gift...and what a wonderful tribute to you!

    Hugs, Alliemae

    Scrawler
    May 14, 2006 - 04:13 pm
    GB certainly makes you feel depth with her words.

    Notes From the Childhood and the Girlhood:

    the parents: people like our Maxie and Andrew

    Clogged and soft and sloppy eyes
    Have lost the light that bites or terrifies.

    There are no swans and swallows any more.
    The people settled for chicken and shut the door.

    But one by one
    They got things done:
    Watch for porches as you pass
    And prim low fencing pinching in the grass.

    Pleasant custards sit behind
    The white Venetian blind.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    The people settled for chicken - reminded me of Sunday chicken dinner. I get a picture of an older couple with their prim low fences as opposed to the high fences of the young.

    Jim in Jeff
    May 14, 2006 - 04:58 pm
    JoanK, that's a keeper-poem for me too. And I'm far from being a "Mother." Thanks for sharing her poem with us here.

    MarjV's "GB reads Tiger..." is also a treasure. I was surprised to hear GB's voice. I'da not a-thunk it hers.

    This TIGER poem of hers reminds me a bit of Shel Silverstein and Ogden Nash, two others who often wrote quality poems for children.

    Someone, Annafair maybe, here earlier couldn't find ANY books by GB at her local BN (or Border's) bookstore. Me too today, in a local mid-Missouri BN. However, BN folks did peel off for me a printout of everything on GB that their computer has (22 items, mostly marked "not in store but available by order" or "not in store, not in stock").

    But one item is marked "NOT YET PUBLISHED." This is an upcoming NEW BOOK of GB's "Selected Poems," pbk $12.95, available July 2006, ISBN 0060878762.

    My BN also could "special order" a January 2006 GB CD and a November 2005 "The Essential Gwendolyn Brooks" hbk...from Library of America.

    I'd once accummulated most of Library of America's 70/80 past books, so that last one sounded to me like a dandy, and I've just now special-ordered it, via online Barnes/Noble. What a happy choice, has been this month's GWENDOLYN BROOKS poet for me!

    Scrawler, sad to confess, I'm not yet able to see GB's meanings in her "Notes of Childhood/Girlhood." For me, nothing beats a fried chicken dinner with trimmings. So that's probably NOT her major meaning here. I'll find time to think on this poem some more.

    MarjV
    May 14, 2006 - 05:26 pm
    Wonderful tribute from your daughter, Joan !

    hats
    May 15, 2006 - 12:51 am
    MarjV, thank you for "Tiger." JoanK, I love the poem too. What a wonderful daughter! Her poetry is fine too. Jim, thank you for telling about the book by GB. MarjV, thank you for "Tiger." Scrawler and Alliemae I have loved your posted poems and comments too.

    hats
    May 15, 2006 - 06:13 am
    Behind the Scenes


    When I see a President, a Vice President, a Secretary of
    State on spakling tile,
    beside noble columns of white,
    I think to myself: "Somebody got there early,
    and swept, and scrubbed; somebody dusted."


    Before the President came,
    somebody buffed his shoes.
    The not too-stiffened white of his shirt
    was not achieved by his own agility.


    At the invisible controls; some little
    weak-kneed, stricken, or powerful woman or man.

    Gwendolyn Brooks(In Montgomery)


    This poem reminds me of ordinary heroes. The people who work, not for a fortune, not for fame, just because they live by a work ethic. Also, because they love to serve their fellowman in any way possible. These people are a part of any race or culture.

    annafair
    May 15, 2006 - 07:38 am
    and have enjoyed each poem, each thought, each word ,,Joan's daughter's poem What a lovely tribute When I say enjoyed that doesnt seem the right word I am immersed in the poems you have shared ( many I thought to share and had my book open to Behind the Scenes to share this am and Hats beat me to it!) Who said being here was like having coffee with friends ? Being an only girl how I longed to have someone to TALK to Eventually my brothers and I passed that time when we were just brothers and sister and became friends but in the night hours or daytime quiets I wanted so much to be able to share my thinking..Eventually I found girl friends when I was older who did share my thoughts who helped me move on and dream my dreams.

    My blood sugar level has finally stablized and I am beginning to feel like me I AM NOT SURE WHETHER THAT IS GOOD OR BAD and I am saying that with a smile. THANKS to each of you that have added 32 posts since I was last here. Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts I am sitting here shaking my head in wonderment how the words on these pages bind us together and make us relatives of the heart .always , anna

    hats
    May 15, 2006 - 07:47 am
    Hi Anna,

    I am sooo glad to hear from you. Thank you for coming in to let us know how you are feeling.

    MarjV
    May 15, 2006 - 08:22 am
    Did you notice how GB used "white" twice in that short poem - columns of white & the white white of his shirt. Could this be another "tongue in cheek"?

    hats
    May 15, 2006 - 08:37 am
    Marj, I didn't notice the use of "white." Now I am going to read the poem again. It does sound like "tongue in cheek."

    Scrawler
    May 15, 2006 - 01:37 pm
    Maybe this part of the poem will help, Jim. I wonder how often we are unaware of those "invisible" people behind the scenes so to speak. It reminds me of my Irish great-grandmother who couldn't get a good paying job because she couldn't speak English and she was Irish. But she survied because if she hadn't I wouldn't be here [at least not in my present form].

    Sunday chicken:

    Chicken, she chided early, should not wait
    Under the cranberries in after-sermon state
    Who had been beaking about the yard of late

    Elite among the speckle-gray white
    On blundering mosaic in the night.
    Or lovely baffle-brown. It was not right.

    You cold not hate the cannibal they wrote
    Of, with the nostril bone-thrust, who could dote
    On boiled or roasted fellow thigh and throat.

    Nor hate the handsome tiger, call him devil
    To man-feast, manifesting Sunday evil.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    My husband probably would have agreed with GB. He hated "chicken." When he was little living on a farm he was the one that had to chase the chicken and wring its neck for cooking. His father used to tell him it would make a man out of him. I took pitey on my my poor artistic husband and never served him chicken. We didn't eat lamb either since I felt the same way about lamb. In my house every Sunday we had lamb. I never had to kill anything for my dinner [being cityfied] but my husband also had to kill the young lambs in the spring. Its any wonder we didn't both become vegetarians.

    Jim in Jeff
    May 15, 2006 - 03:31 pm
    Thanks, Scrawler. Yes, the second verse cleared up much of the "chicken-reference" questions for me.

    Actually, I'd found the whole poem off-line before logging on and seeing your post. See my too-longish post here in a minute or ten, discussing that whole Pultizer-winning "Annie Allen" book of hers.

    Re farm animals. Hey, lambs are baby sheep. Chickens...are dumb clucks...Yes? I'll just dare to add: My wonderful Grandmother who raised me...always took pride in her efficiency. Every movement counted. So natch, preparing for Sunday company, she'd try to grab two chickens at a time by their necks. And, one in each hand, would do arm-length windmills until, their heads still in her two hands, each chicken about same time would go kicking and sprawling across the barnyard. Then she'd scald 'em, pluck 'em, cut 'em into pieces. Fine eating for her menfolk. My Grandmother...was a pioneer woman.

    Sorry, Forum Friends; I (perhaps too often) rejoice in reminisces about my childhood (especially of my Grandmother).

    Jim in Jeff
    May 15, 2006 - 03:44 pm
    This is an "epic poem" within GB's 2nd published collection of poems titled "Annie Allen"...which earned her 1950's Pulitzer Prize. So I've been investigating it last weekend, a good trip for me. But I've barely scratched the surface. Could use group's help; advice; added info; any comments at all would likely help me/us.

    For example: I can't find a definition of the word "anniad" today. Also, I'm unable to find an online version of "The Anniad." And it's too long a poem for me to type into a post here. HELP?

    However, the below link has helped me see what Anniad is all about: http://titan.iwu.edu/~wchapman/americanpoetryweb/brobalan.html

    Before then, while reading "The Anniad," I'd keep thinking..."WOW! This is poetry at its best; the words are music to my ears." But I couldn't really follow the story of the poem. Now I can. Others here might not need such a help. But I sure did.

    In brief, "Annie Allen" is the life-story of a black girl with childhood visions, who grew up and had to settle for much less. Compromises, pragmatic choices, real-life necessities along her way. GB unfolds Annie's saga in four separate sections:

    1. "Notes from the Childhood and the Girlhood": Seven sub-sections of poems, one in middle serves to introduce young Annie (her childhood aspirations), in a section titled "The Ballad of Late Annie." I've no idea why GB uses the term "Late." This was "early Annie," to me.

    2. "The Anniad." This by anyone's definition an "epic poem." It is in 43 stanzas, each seven lines. Each stanza employs a DIFFERENT rhythm pattern...beautifully done tho. For example, stanza 1 pattern is ababcca; 2 is abaccbb; 3 is abcbcac; 4 is abbacbc; 5 is aabcccb. After that, I gave up recording her patterns. But I'd bet a bundle that EACH of GB's 43 stanzas here is in a different rhyming pattern. For sure, her rhymings ALL flow fluently to our ears.

    3. "Appendix to the Anniad": This is a short section, continuing Annie's later-life feelings.

    4. "The Womanhood": This is in fifteen sections, each a different poetry form. The first section, Part I (subtitled "The Children of the Poor") SONNET-form, in five stanzas. Each stanza is 14 lines. Rhyming pattern here is sonnet form, mostly abba abba cddc ee. Deviations occur only in lines 9-12 where cddc is sometimes instead ccdd or cdcd. Else, it's standard sonata-form.

    Due to last month's poet Mary Oliver's "Handbook to Poetry," I'm now too much in tune with technical aspects of GB's lovely poems. She does adhere to rhyme and meter, pretty much. And as "THE ANNIAD" richly demonstrates, her ALLITERATIONS are works-of-art!

    MarjV
    May 15, 2006 - 04:25 pm
    I did not get anywhere attempting to read the "Anniad". I have posted a number of poems from Annie Allen volume. So maybe your linke will help me, Jim.

    annafair
    May 15, 2006 - 06:42 pm
    I have a book with the ANNIAD and have read portions of it but was daunted by the length and magnitude I will look into it again ,.The book I purchased only lists 4 ANNIAD poems ...I find myself in Gay Chaps at the Bar.. Mostly I think because it is about WWII and that was my war. I remember President Roosevelt's speech on the radio after the attack on Pearl Harbor We listened to it at school 7th grade and already among my friends were those who wept for the loss of brothers and family members. I grew old enough to date boys in service barely older than me. My three older brothers left, neighbor boys left, school mates lied about their age and left and when it was over some never came back. some never walked the same limping oh shattered limbs and some came back and acted alive but the light in thier eyes never lit again. So all of the poetry from that piece speaks to me. And I cant speak for anyone but me but a military cemetary has always reduced me to tears and I walk among the markers and say hello to names whose the marker declares has been there long enough no one who remembers them would be left to visit. But I do ..I must post this because we are again in a thunderstorm watch No wonder I dont feel well. anna

    mentors


    For I am rightful fellow of their band,
    My best allegiances are to the dead.
    I swear to keep the dead upon my mind,
    Disdain for all time to be overglad.
    Among spring flowers, under summer trees,
    By chilling autumn waters, in the frosts
    Of supercilious winter-all my days
    I’ll have as mentors those reproving ghosts.
    And at that cry, at that remotest whisper,
    I’ll stop my casual business. Leave the banquet,
    Or leave the ball-reluctant to unclasp her
    Who may be fragrant as the flower she wears.
    Make gallant bows and dim excuses, then quit
    Light for the midnight that is mine and theirs.


    Gwendolyn Brooks more from Gay Chaps at the bar.

    Alliemae
    May 16, 2006 - 06:20 am
    Hey Jim...you forgot taking out the innards and cleaning out the bitter gall from the gizzard...my mom's pet peeve!

    Please don't ever hesitate to share your memories on my account...I missed our little farm so much when we moved to 'the big city' I love your stories!!

    I'll be back about poetry in a bit!!

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 16, 2006 - 06:29 am
    ...anyway...all through the description of this man I kept seeing a bright and shiny gold tooth in one of his front upper teeth...and a kind of 'Rodrego' look about him (as in Come here my little lovely...) so I guess I'd better read the poem again as well!!

    alliemae

    Scrawler
    May 16, 2006 - 01:19 pm
    Thanks Jim for your help. This next poem was the last of GB's Notes of a Childhood:

    "pygmies are pygmies still, though percht on Alps"

    ~ Edward Young

    But can you see better there, and laughing there
    Pity the giants wallowing on the plain.
    Giants who bleat and chafe in their small grass,
    Seldom to spread the palm; to spit; come clean

    Pygmies expand in cold impossible air,
    Cry fie on giantshine, poor glory which
    Pounds breast-bone punily, screeches, and has
    Reached no Alps: or, knows no Alps to reach.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    Ok! I give up. I haven't the foggest idea of what this poem is about. Perhaps one of you wonderful people out there can give me a hint. Maybe if we knew who Edward Young was it would help.

    hats
    May 16, 2006 - 01:43 pm
    Scrawler, I have never heard of "Edward Young." Is he famous or a relative? I love the poem. I know Pygmies are small. I think they are a peace loving people. Not really sure. After reading the poem I would like to know more about the Pygmies and the identity of "Edward Young."

    MarjV
    May 16, 2006 - 03:44 pm
    Edward Young was an English poet 1683-1765

    http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/3687.html

    Here is a quote of his that matches Gb's first line -

    Pygmies are pygmies still, though percht on Alps;
    And pyramids are pyramids in vales.
    Each man makes his own stature, builds himself.
    Virtue alone outbuilds the Pyramids;
    Her monuments shall last when Egypt's fall

    - - - - - At the moment I have no clue as to what it is all about. Brain tired.

    hats
    May 16, 2006 - 03:49 pm
    Marj, that's great! Thank you for the link too.

    MarjV
    May 16, 2006 - 04:30 pm
    Here's some poetry & a bio of Edward Young..

    http://www.poemhunter.com/edward-young/poet-37376/

    Jim in Jeff
    May 16, 2006 - 05:25 pm
    Its meaning still slips by me. Just when I thing I've got it. Here we can now compare Edward Young's poem and Gwendolyn Brook's 200-yrs-later poety commentary on it, side by side. Still, 'tis slippery. Thanks to MarjV for making this side-by-side comparison easier for us.

    Just when I think I've a grasp on these two poems, their meanings slip away from me. O'well. Good poetry makes us think outside-the-box.

    My thanks to all who commented on my post about GB's Pulitzer winning "Annie Allen." Its long second part, "The Anniad," still dumbfounds me a bit. What is an "Anniad"? Also, GB's alliterations here...are many, and effective...every instance. She must have spent months reworking this poem to such a fine-toothed perfection.

    P.S. - Alliemae, I loved the chicken gizzards. Didn't know til your post that was bitter gall around them to be removed. My wonderful Grandmother's favorite piece of our Sunday chicken on the table was...the feet. And THAT, forum friends, is IMHO selfless L-O-V-E.

    JoanK
    May 17, 2006 - 01:18 am
    I loved the GB reading the Tiger. Her voice is beautiful. I ordered the book/CD and had it sent to my grandchildren. Now I'll have to go to California again, so that I can read/listen to it.

    If you search on it in Amazon, and click on one of the little pictures below the book, you can read the beginning of the poem. It's called "The Tiger who Wore White Gloves or You are Who you Are".

    hats
    May 17, 2006 - 02:01 am
    JoanK, thanks!

    Éloïse De Pelteau
    May 17, 2006 - 02:23 am
    Anna, I am so glad that you are feeling a little better.

    One of my daughters surprised me on Mother's day with a poem that I will cherish always. We see each other too little as she lives so far away.

    Je t'aime Maman

    Mother's Day seems the right time
    To say what's been kept inside
    And so with this poem to you
    I try to speak my mind


    I din't know if you realized
    What you really mean to me
    Besides the baking and the cooking
    And the pies so heavenly


    By being the model to follow
    Bringing us Bethoven and Mozart
    You were able to show us
    How to make living an art


    I don't know if you realize
    What you really mean to me
    How appreciated you are
    For making your kids so proud and free


    Despite the lean times you were a bastion
    A perfect example and inspiration
    of how to live our lives as we see
    How best to reach our destiny


    Thank you Mom for helping
    Grow my heart so wide and strong
    So I can proclaim my love to you
    On Mother's Day and all year long


    When my children moved out and some made their life very far away from me, this poem makes me realize the profound influence a mother has on her children. Even if I always wanted mine to be independent and free to live their own life, it was not always obvious to me how much they remembered from their childhood. Sometimes I thought that they had forgotten even everything, but no they remember the essential I guess.

    I love this discussion, it is like a ray of sunshine.

    Éloïse

    JoanK
    May 17, 2006 - 02:27 am
    That's wonderful, Eloise.

    hats
    May 17, 2006 - 05:09 am
    Hi Eloise,

    What a wonderful poem for a mother. The poem brings tears to my eyes.

    hats
    May 17, 2006 - 07:25 am
    I pass you my Poems!--to tell you
    we are all vulnerable--
    the midget, the Mighty,
    the richest, the poor.
    Men, women, children, and trees.
    I am vulnerable.
    Hector Petersen was vulnerable.


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    Vulnerability is difficult to keep in mind. At one time I spent a lot of time thinking about my weakest links. The thoughts frightened me. With aging, I think, acceptance of vulnerabilites comes almost automatically. There is the daily battle to keep mind and body up and going.

    Somehow I think Gwendolyn Brooks is mainly saying through her poems all people are vulnerable because of our certain death. The man, Hector Petersen, must have met his death. She writes about him in the past tense. GB also begins "Poem" with a capital "P." Why did she capitalize "Poem?"

    annafair
    May 17, 2006 - 07:49 am
    The GB poem Perhaps, just perhaps she is saying that we are what we are,..whether we live on the mountaintop or down in the vales..We cant change what we are I am 5' but for years I wore a jacket that said "I am really 5'7". blonde , willowy and 22" but it didnt make me taller than 5; didnt change my hair from auburn, and while once I had been petite I was never willowy and its been a LONG time since I was 22. I am what I am outside but I can make a difference in who I am inside. I can be virtous I can believe in my fellow man and help every way I can and like Eloise's children because she raised them to be what they are her virtue ,her love made a difference ...cities will fall, mountains will tumble, war will destroy but love and caring and virtue will endure ! And isnt it sad that what man prizes the most are not the worthy things,When I read of those in power, who could help the world building 20,000 sqft mansions, making slums of expensive neighborhoods ( for having a number of homes that are never lived in but by caretakers makes them slum areas to me )having 20 cars, building thier own golf courses, and cheating their employees and the investors in thier companies for what? I think Gwendolyn Brooks saw with a clear eye and a great vision. Now that I have interpreted the poem WHAT DO THE REST OF YOU THINK..???

    Eloise I know you and your children know you and we all thank you for being the kind of person you are,. And since I have read all the posts I would like to say Jim my aunt used to wring the chickens necks and plunge them into boiling water so the feathers would come off easy,.Years ago when we needed to be frugal ( well I need to be that way now but with 4 children it was really necessary ) I bought ten live chickens from my egg man for my husband to kill and me to prepare for the freezer. He killed them which he said HE WOULD NEVER DO AGAIN. and I prepared them thinking watching my aunt do it when I was young it looked easy enough! We wont go into detail and we did eat those chickens but for awhile chicken was not on our menu. I love this group the poets we are reading help but the thoughts you share really really give my heart a lift.. thanks ...anna

    MarjV
    May 17, 2006 - 09:19 am
    SOWETO, South Africa (CNN) -- It was a picture that got the world's attention: A frozen moment in time that showed 13-year-old Hector Peterson dying after being struck down by a policeman's bullet

    Hector Peterson was among some 30,000 students who took to the streets of Soweto protesting a government edict that all classes were to be taught in Afrikaans - the language of the white minority.

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/africa/06/15/inside.africa/

    [Hector was mentioned in the last line of the poem posted on #792]

    hats
    May 17, 2006 - 10:04 am
    Marj, now that is really interesting. Thank you. That just adds to the meaning of the poem.

    winsum
    May 17, 2006 - 12:03 pm
    one who is always different, always out of step, crazy means "I will always be different than others and they will not understand what it is to be me" to a black intellectual woman who writes poetry and is famous for it. She will always be different even from her own racial and cultural group. It's a lonely life.

    Scrawler
    May 17, 2006 - 02:03 pm
    What wonderful posts. Thanks Marj for your links. I think that GB is really saying in all her poems that we have to be who we are. That it doesn't matter who we are or even where we live that makes a difference. I see the various degrees of "class" in her poems from time to time. Although most of the time her reflection is about the poor and black; her poems can also be applied to other cultures as well. Eloise that poem was beautiful.

    The Womanhood

    the children of the poor [Part 1]

    People who have no children can be hard:
    Attain amail of ice and insolence:
    Need not pause in the fire, and in no sense
    Hesitate in the hurricane to guard.
    And when wide world is bitten and bewarred
    They perish purely, waving their spirits hence
    Without a trace of grace or of offense
    To laugh or fail, diffident, wonder-starred.
    While throuh a throttling dark we others hear
    The little lifting helplessness, the queer
    Whimper-whine; whose unridiculous
    Lost softness softly makes a trap for us.
    And makes a curse. And makes a sugar of
    The maloculusions, the inconditions of love.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks [to be continued]

    annafair
    May 18, 2006 - 09:44 am
    All of the segments of this poem reminds me of myself and my parents and my neighbors who said Goodbye GOD BE WITH YOU there is pain in each small farewell ..For nothing can keep them from whatever fate lies ahead But then that is true even if the goodbyes, the take cares, the pleas to be careful are directed at anyone you love and care for. GB captures the nuances of life and gives them to us to remind us how fragile and passing it is ..anna

    looking
    You have no word for soldiers to enjoy
    The feel of, as an apple, and to chew
    With masculine satisfaction. Not "good-bye!"
    "Come back!" or "careful!" Look, and let him go.
    "Good-bye!" is brutal, and "come back!" the raw
    Insistence of an idle desperation
    Since could he favor he would favor now.
    He will be "careful!"if he has permission.
    Looking is better, At the dissolution
    Grab greatly with the eye, or crush in a steel
    Of study-Even that is vain. Expression,
    The touch or look or word, will little avail
    The brawniest will not beat back the storm
    Nor the heaviest haul your little boy from harm.


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    MarjV
    May 18, 2006 - 11:15 am
    A Black Wedding Song

    II

    For you
    I wish the kindness that romps or sorrows along.
    Or kneels.
    I wish you the daily forgiveness of each other.
    For war comes in from the World
    and puzzles a darling duet -
    tangles tongues,
    tears hearts, mashes minds;
    there will be the need to forgive.

    I wish you jewels of black love.

    Come to your Wedding Song.

    Gwendolyn Brooks, Beckonings, c1975

    - - - - - - --

    I thought this was a pretty special poem.

    I wasn't quite sure of the line "jewels of black love". Jewels would be something to treasure. They need the jewels, perhaps, because of all the intrusions into their togetherness. ??????

    MarjV
    May 18, 2006 - 11:34 am
    In Children of the Poor , Part I

    -is Gb perhaps saying that people who have become parents gain an outlook that childless people do not have - they can change the "malocculusions" (abnormalities) to positives; have a different outlook or priority in life. I have on occasion definitely seen the difference in some couples.

    annafair
    May 18, 2006 - 11:46 am
    Well as parents we learned to give up some of our dreams so our children could have braces so they could eat properly ( it is hard to bite into things when your teeth have come in crooked and overlapped) and I think your view of the world changes because your responsibilities are different ...trips become famly affairs etc anyone who has added to the family children certainly learns a lot Patience ,Patience Patience One of my brothers and his wife and my husbands sister and her husband never had children By choice ? I dont know but their priorities were not ours and as much as they seemed to love our children the difference in what they felt we should do and the things we chose to do were poles apart.

    GB's poetry shows me she was a recorder of her world and the world around her. And she believed in telling it as it was ..and challenges her readers to do the same. anna

    Scrawler
    May 18, 2006 - 01:46 pm
    What shall I give my children? who are poor,
    Who are adjudged the leastwise of the land,
    Who are my sweetest lepers, who demand
    No velvet and no velvety velour;
    But who have begged me for a brisk contour,
    Crying that they are quasi, contraband
    Because unfinished, graven by a hand
    Less than angelic, admirable or sure
    My hand is stuffed with mode, design, device.
    But I lack access to my proper stone
    And plentitude of plan shall not suffice
    Nor grief nor love shall be enough alone
    To ratify my little halves who bear
    Across an autumn freezing everywhere.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks (to be continued)

    I don't think everyone are personality wise capable of being good parents and I believe the choice of being parents should be left up to the individuals involved. As GB implies we might all have the mode, design and device, but some lack the proper stone.

    hats
    May 19, 2006 - 03:36 am
    AnnaFair,

    I am enjoying "Gay Chaps... by GB. I especially like this part you have posted. No matter how strong, how brave, how tall, men feel emotional pain just like women. I hope, after all these years, men can let those emotions out. Saying goodbye is never easy especially when a war is involved.

    I haven't read all the posts. Will come back later to read posts. I hope to post a poem. I hate to see the end of this month come. Each month, I think, this is the best poet. Then, another comes and I love him or her too.

    annafair
    May 19, 2006 - 08:47 am
    This poem almost made me weep ...because I remember I remember ...anna

    To Be in Love
    To be in love
    Is to touch with a lighter hand


    In yourself you stretch, you are well


    You look at things
    Through his eyes
    A cardinal is red,
    A sky is blue.
    Suddenly you know he knows too.
    He is not there but
    You know you are tasting together
    The winter, or light spring weather.


    His hand to take your hand is overmuch.
    To much to bear,


    You cannot look in his eyes
    Because your pulse must not say
    What must not be said.


    When he
    Shuts a door-
    Is not there-
    Your arms are water


    And you are free
    With a ghastly freedom


    You the beautiful half
    Of a golden hurt


    You remember and covet his mouth
    To touch, to whisper on.


    Oh when to declare
    Is certain death!


    Oh when to apprize
    Is to mesmerize


    To see fall down , the Column of Gold
    Into the commonest ash.


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    I have no idea what you will say but my love is lost and is ash and was once a column of Gold, Like most poems each person who reads it will bring thier expierences and it will be mean something different.

    anna

    Scrawler
    May 19, 2006 - 10:09 am
    Yes, "to be in love" made me weep inside too. What is the saying? It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

    The Womanhood: Part 3:

    And shall I prime my children, pray, to pray?
    Mites, come invade most frugal vestibules
    Spectered with crusts of penitents' renewals
    And all hysterics arrogant for a day.
    Instruct yourselves here is no devil to pay
    Children, confine your lights in jellied rules;
    Resemble graves; be metaphysical mules;
    Learn Lord will not distort nor leave the fray.
    Behind the scurrings of your neat motif
    I shall wait, if you wish: revise the psalm
    If that should frighten you: sew up belief
    If that should tear: turn, singularly calm
    At forehead and at fingers rather wise,
    Holding the bandage ready for your eyes.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks [to be continued]

    Here I think GB is instructing her children in "how" to pray. But she is doing it in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. Instructing them that there really is no "devil to pay", but rather that the "devil" or "hell" so to speak is really the here and now. I like that part were she says: "Resemble graves; be metaphysical mules..." I could never understand why we should resemble graves or be metaphysical mules. Why did God create us with a thinking brain if we weren't allowed to think as individuals?

    hats
    May 19, 2006 - 11:23 am
    Scrawler,

    I like this third part of "Womanhood" too. My favorite line is

    "Sew up belief if that should tear."

    hats
    May 19, 2006 - 11:43 am
    Best Friends(Martin D)

    Getting to home means joining
    Very Best Friends__
    from the very wide shelf
    my father put on a wall for me.


    One Friend, or another, knows what to say to me
    on Monday, or Thursday,
    for Monday or Thursday need.


    if I want Repairing__
    or something to lock me up__
    or a happy key to open me___
    or fire when school has made me crispy-cold___
    Coming home
    I choose


    from Very Best Friends on the very wide shelf
    my father put on a wall
    for me.


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    I think in this poem Gwendolyn Brooks is saying how much we need friends, relatives. This reminded me of the song sung by Barbara Streisand, "People who need people are the luckiest people in the world."

    I especially love the about needing repair. There are days when I need to be wound up and put together again. There are special people who come into our lives for this purpose. On different days I have different needs. It's good to know I'm not alone.

    In this one Gwen Brooks might have been talking about a younger person. School is mentioned. I am not sure. I have seen, I think, more than one poem where GB writes about her father.

    Hi Alliemae,

    Are you well?

    Alliemae
    May 19, 2006 - 12:24 pm
    Re: "To Be in Love"

    I read this poem quite early in the month and found it deeply touching...and true. In fact, I couldn't find the words to comment on it.

    I'm so glad that others did.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 19, 2006 - 12:33 pm
    Yes, thanks, Hats! It's just that this year my kids decided to celebrate 'Mother's Week' and I've been so busy!! I loved every moment but I can't help being kind of glad I didn't have 7 rather than just my 4!!

    This poem and the shelf...I thought GB was talking about books...you know when you come in from the world and find your favorite books there waiting for you on that special shelf...asking nothing...just letting you hold them and enjoy them...quietly accepting. [Hats...I think this interpretation may be because I finally started "Istanbul" by Pamuk...what a difference...such a tender story of his family's history (well, so far anyway).]

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 19, 2006 - 12:42 pm
    Alliemae, I should have thought of books. Good point. Thank you for telling me about "Istanbul." I want to read it. It helps knowing you are enjoying it.

    MarjV
    May 19, 2006 - 02:24 pm
    I think it is books also that are her friends. Getting to come home and delve into the books. I notice that the beginning and end of the poem mention the books, the shelf & the father that put the shelf on the wall. I didn't see that the first time thru. Absolutely have to read these more than once.

    Often on a tiring day I look forward to the afternoon when I can open a "friend" and be lost for awhile in thoughts on the page. Usually it is new books I am reading; not old "friends" - but old friends are delicious also.

    MarjV
    May 19, 2006 - 02:30 pm
    "revise the psalm
    If that should frighten you"

    This world has many frightening things. I like her suggestion. How to teach children to pray. That is a big challenge. What's real in prayer; what isn't.

    annafair
    May 20, 2006 - 04:27 am
    The poems posted are ones I have read and thought about . perhaps puzzled about would be best. GB's poems are not an easy read...they need thinking about and pondering about and sometimes when you are finished you still wonder about . Having given us freedom of choice I believe God wants us to use it ..whether we use it wisely or not it up to us but HE also let us know that when we are not wise HE will be there for us..

    I think Best Friends can be both .. books which came to my mind immediately since I have so many and on so many subjeccts ie books that tell me how to do things , repair things, garden etc And each book I have read has given me a gift. Something new to think about,. cheer when I was down Hope when there seemed no hope and then the ones I have read several times ..because I loved them so ...and each time I learned something new. Stories like life need to be remembered to see what we have learned and how we have been helped and how we can help. And good friends are the same I am a vocal person and need to hear voices I tuck them away and savor them and hear them in my mind..They are old friends and thier voices take me back to other times ,other places ...and I feel blessed ...to have both books and friends..anna

    Scrawler
    May 20, 2006 - 03:48 pm
    I thought it was books as well. I'm not much of a people person, to me books are my true friends. I am puzzled over the line: "for Monday and Thursday need."

    Womanhood: Part 4:

    First fight. Then fiddle. Ply the slipping string
    With fathery sorcery; muzzle the note
    With hurting love; the music that they wrote
    Bewitch, bewilder. Qualify to sing
    Threadwise. Devise no salt, no hempen thing
    For the dear instrument to bear. Devote
    The bow to silks and honey. Be remote
    A while from malice and from murdering
    But first to arms, to armor. Carry hate
    In front of you and harmony behind.
    Be deaf to music and to beauty blind
    Win war. Rise bloody, maybe not too late
    For having first to civilize a space
    Wherein to play your violin with grace.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    This part of the poem speaks volumes and is so appropriate for today's world. "First fight.Then fiddle..." says it all. It is to bad that we can't enjoy the world's music and beauty without giving ourselves first to malice and murdering.

    MarjV
    May 20, 2006 - 04:43 pm
    Amen! to that Scrawler. I get the same "music" from that poem. The notes are rather dire til the end where hope is spoken -"wherein to play your violin with grace.

    It even states to put hate first.

    "Devise no salt or hempen thing" Salt can be a container; hempen thing a kind of cordage - in other words let there be no way to keep the instrument with you. Which fits in with "be remote".

    Having fun there trying to extend some meaning.

    Alliemae
    May 20, 2006 - 05:23 pm
    I can only give the interpretation that came to me after you, Scrawler, pointed it out. Before that it didn't seem more than two random days picked out of a week's worth of days that may have fit into GB's sense of style in the writing of the poem.

    Thinking again, I realize that Mondays and Thursdays have always been very needy and special days to me: Mondays there was the need to 'wipe the weekend' off my feet...with people all weekend...everyone in the family at home...family doing things together and then the shock of returning to a new week with a classroom filled with others. Oh, I loved the times our family spent together...and much of it was of music and poetry and books. But it wasn't 'my personal shelf'...

    And then Thursday was the 'pull myself back into my warm, fuzzy, book-filled cocoon. Not the books assigned at school...MY books...MY book friends. I used to watch as I grew up the different days and ways that people prepared for their Holy Days or Sabbaths...and I always wished that I could make Thursday afternoon and evening 'my' Holy Day.

    Isn't it strange how one little line or just a few words of a poem written by a stranger who has her/his own reasons for putting those lines down can resonate in each of us...and sometimes not.

    Since I started reading poetry in this group I am more and more amazed at how powerful poetry can be and how personal.

    Now I MUST read Mary Oliver's "A Poetry Handbook"...I MUST learn more about the craft of poetry!

    Alliemae

    annafair
    May 21, 2006 - 03:29 am
    and read everyone's impressions and interpretation of poems posted.

    "Isn't it strange how one little line or just a few words of a poem written by a stranger who has her/his own reasons for putting those lines down can resonate in each of us...and sometimes not. "

    Perhaps GB said to put hate before so you can get it out of the way. I see myself "hating" something but then when I think about it I realize I need to let it go ..and move on with more positive thoughts.

    Poetry has always been my means of dealing with life, I remember when I was sadden by things whether is was "man's inhumanity to man" some sad thing that happened , lonliness when my husband was away or just my hormones working I would sit alone at night and read poetry. It helped me to weep when I felt sad, soothed me when I hurt , poems were a panacea to my troubled heart ...it helped me to look at the wonder of life and come to terms with its sorrows. I have appreciated everything more because there was always a poem that captured my heart and said See Anna life can be beautiful. and your voices heard here helps more than I have words to say.. anna

    Alliemae
    May 21, 2006 - 05:54 am
    My dad was my first teacher. He was a poet and also taught us poems which seem to have taught me about life and gotten me through it so far.

    Since it is Sunday, and since we are sharing how much poetry has meant to us, I hope no one will mind if I post the four poems that have meant the most to me throughout my life...one written for me by my dad and the others recited to me by him since I can remember.

    In School-Days
    John Greenleaf Whittier

    STILL sits the school-house by the road,
    A ragged beggar sleeping; (here, Dad had taught me 'sunning')
    Around it still the sumachs grow,
    And blackberry-vines are creeping. (and here, 'running')

    Within, the master’s desk is seen,
    Deep scarred by raps official;
    The warping floor, the battered seats,
    The jack-knife’s carved initial;

    The charcoal frescos on its wall;
    Its door’s worn sill, betraying
    The feet that, creeping slow to school,
    Went storming out to playing!

    Long years ago a winter sun
    Shone over it at setting;
    Lit up its western window-panes,
    And low eaves’ icy fretting.

    It touched the tangled golden curls,
    And brown eyes full of grieving,
    Of one who still her steps delayed
    When all the school were leaving.

    For near her stood the little boy
    Her childish favor singled:
    His cap pulled low upon a face
    Where pride and shame were mingled.

    Pushing with restless feet the snow
    To right and left, he lingered;—
    As restlessly her tiny hands
    The blue-checked apron fingered.

    He saw her lift her eyes; he felt
    The soft hand’s light caressing,
    And heard the tremble of her voice,
    As if a fault confessing.

    “I’m sorry that I spelt the word
    I hate to go above you,
    Because,”—the brown eyes lower fell,—
    “Because you see, I love you!”

    Still memory to a gray-haired man
    That sweet child-face is showing.
    Dear girl! the grasses on her grave
    Have forty years been growing!

    He lives to learn, in life’s hard school,
    How few who pass above him
    Lament their triumph and his loss,
    Like her,—because they love him.

    A PSALM OF LIFE
    Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807-1882)

    TELL me not, in mournful numbers,
    Life is but an empty dream ! —
    For the soul is dead that slumbers,
    And things are not what they seem.

    Life is real ! Life is earnest!
    And the grave is not its goal;
    Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
    Was not spoken of the soul.

    Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
    Is our destined end or way ;
    But to act, that each to-morrow
    Find us farther than to-day.

    Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
    And our hearts, though stout and brave,
    Still, like muffled drums, are beating
    Funeral marches to the grave.

    In the world's broad field of battle,
    In the bivouac of Life,
    Be not like dumb, driven cattle !
    Be a hero in the strife !

    Trust no Future, howe'er pleasant !
    Let the dead Past bury its dead !
    Act,— act in the living Present !
    Heart within, and God o'erhead !

    Lives of great men all remind us
    We can make our lives sublime,
    And, departing, leave behind us
    Footprints on the sands of time ;

    Footprints, that perhaps another,
    Sailing o'er life's solemn main,
    A forlorn and shipwrecked brother,
    Seeing, shall take heart again.

    Let us, then, be up and doing,
    With a heart for any fate ;
    Still achieving, still pursuing,
    Learn to labor and to wait.

    Invictus
    William Ernest Henley. 1849–1903

    OUT of the night that covers me,
    Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
    I thank whatever gods may be
    For my unconquerable soul.

    In the fell clutch of circumstance
    5 I have not winced nor cried aloud.
    Under the bludgeonings of chance
    My head is bloody, but unbowed.

    Beyond this place of wrath and tears
    Looms but the Horror of the shade,
    And yet the menace of the years
    Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

    It matters not how strait the gate,
    How charged with punishments the scroll,
    I am the master of my fate:
    I am the captain of my soul.

    ...and finally

    I love my little Allie so;
    She's Daddy's pride and joy.
    I'm glad I didn't get my wish,
    I'd hoped she'd be a boy.

    But God was wiser far than I,
    He knew just what to do;
    Instead of sending 'just a girl'
    He sent me one like you.

    In these poems my dad taught me Love, Comfort, Survival, Self-acceptance and Self-reliance...tools for life!

    Thank you all for your indulgence...

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 21, 2006 - 06:42 am
    Alliemae- dear Allie Those are neat, thank you. Many good lines in them all, especially the last one.

    MarjV
    May 21, 2006 - 07:03 am
    "A Farmer" (from In Montgomery and Other Poems, pub. posthumously.Poem written in 1988 tho not pub. til this volume in 2003.)

    A farmer -
    at the times he doesn't have anything to do with animals _
    is very close to the meaningful sweetness of things.
    Altering the earth with gloroy.
    Making furry wheatstuff comes out of the eaerth.
    All furry in furrow, miles across the scene.
    Putting corn Up, cabbages Up.
    In fine masterful Putting.

    Now it is October.
    Here is the black black earth.
    Prespared by the selfsame farmer.
    Combed.
    Oh lovingly ovingly.

    He steps this way, and that.
    Reverently.
    His seamed cheeks tighten and rest, by turnws.
    Hi is intent, but not hurried.
    The sun beats upon him. His cancer began long ago.

    SOMETHING NEEDS TENDING !
    Readily,
    His body a prayer,
    he kneels.

    - - - - - - -

    What a portrait of the farmer! What a discerning eye and compassionate heart GB shows in her work.

    And I noticed the repititions

    annafair
    May 21, 2006 - 09:09 am
    Your father chose poems I chose, And what a lovely poem he wrote for you...how that must console you as you age. All three of the poems you quoted were poems I memorized when I was young In fact I can almost recite from memory now, No one assigned me the task of memorizing I just did because I thought them worthwhile to do so. And there are others as well I didnt set out to memorize them I just did because I didnt want to forget them and I read them so many times ( outloud by myself) my mind just stored them for me.

    Because of my love for poetry it was poetry that allowed me to grieve and heal for I began writing poetry after my husband died . Not right away for there was part of me that believed he was not dead. Didnt he fly off on assignments regularly? Didnt he return in time?

    I am going to share one of my poems written in February 24 2003 about the month he died.

    March 1994


    Newer was a spring so fair, blossoms, everywhere.
    Azaleas ablaze set fire the lawn and nature smiled.
    My lungs gulped the clean, sweet scented air,
    While spring that charming beauty did beguile.
    Greening grass and tender leaves uncurled,
    Across azure skies drifted white fleecy clouds.
    Soft rain bejeweled the scene in pearl,
    As birds to each other preened and bowed.
    Everywhere you could see winter on the run,
    The earth rejoiced to celebrate its going.
    Faces of children looked upward to the sun,
    And laughed to see golden rays aglowing.


    It should have lifted my spirit but I was instead bereft,
    For it was that spring you took your love and left.


    anna alexander February 24 2003 (C)

    Scrawler
    May 21, 2006 - 09:53 am
    Thanks to you all for those poems you shared. To me poetry is a "snapshot" of life when one single instant is frozen forever. We not only see and hear that moment, but feel that moment as well because it pricks our own memories.

    Womanhood: Part 5:

    When my dears die, the festival-colored brightness
    That is their motion and mild repartee
    Enchanted, a macabre mockery
    Charming the rainbow radiance into tightness
    And into a remarkable politeness
    That is not kind and does not want to be,
    May not they in the crisp encounter see
    Something to recognize and read as rightness?
    I say they may, so granitely discreet,
    The little crooked questionings inbound,
    Cold an old predicament of the breath:
    Adroit, the shapely prefaces complete,
    Accept the university of death.

    ~Gwendolyn Brooks

    This is a very powerful poem and I have very little to say about it except that "to accept the university of death" is something that does not come easy.

    PS. Have we decided yet on what poet we want to discuss next month?

    annafair
    May 21, 2006 - 10:10 am
    Scrawler I have sent to Pat a challenge to others to join our group by letting them know what poets we will discuss in the summer months

    June will be Pablo Neruda A famous poet from Chile A Nobel Prize winner in Literature in 1971 who began writing poetry when he was 13 .

    July will find us in Australia reading the poet Henry Lawson who captured the feeling of the Austalian way of life and considered by Australians as a very important poet'

    In August we will return to America and Edna St Vincent Millays poetry. That is as far as I have gone but there are many poets whirling in my brain and I welcome everyone's suggestion, I am not the only one who can decide .. If you trust me to make the decisions that is fine but this is a collaborative effort and I welcome all suggestions..

    anna

    Alliemae
    May 21, 2006 - 03:38 pm
    I just looked up the next three poets online and read just one poem of each and I must say that the poem I read by Henry Lawson was absolutely thrilling. I'll have to look again for the title but it was about the sea and sailors and was so potent in meaning...so very exciting and real...I'm going to like July...I just know it. I love the sea and sea stories!!

    Oh, and a special surprise...I never knew this but Edna St. Vincent Millay was born in the same town I was!!

    Alliemae

    Jim in Jeff
    May 21, 2006 - 04:05 pm
    Annafair: Re June's Pablo Neruda selection for discussion. Amazingly, Neruda was one entry in my Sunday crossword puzzle today. I'd never heard of him (but I did solve the puzzle). Sounds like an intriguing new-adventure ahead for me/us.

    Alliemae, those are wonderful selections. Unlike Fair Anna, I've never yet been exposed to any of those poems. I too like your Dad's, best. And for unknown inner reasons, I too love "sea" poems.

    Re: Mary Oliver's "Handbook of Poetry." I've just found a later book by her, "Rules for the Dance." In it she focuses more on rules for writing (and reading) metrical verse. I've bought a pbk, and look forward to reading it soon.

    Re Hats' "Best Friends." I too see books being GB's major intent here. I can't see secondary meanings; but is possibly there.

    As someone here implied, "best friends" can mean diff strokes to diff folks. My Grandmother who raised me...was for sure MY best friend.

    In my third-grade, our teacher asked us as tomorrow's assignment to name our five "best friends." Our classroom then had grades 3, 4, & 5 in same room. So the next day we third-graders would, in turn, look over the whole room and name our five "best friends" (Charlie, Mary Jane, etc).

    But the very last kid spoiled it. He had read the day's text assignment. So his best friends were: My eyes, my ears, my nose, my taste, my touch. He got an A; the rest of us...learned to do our homework.

    Only moral of this for us here today is...a definiton of "best friends" will vary with each of our experiences and memories. Who needs an ink-blot Rorschach test from psychiatrists, when a "Name your five best friends" test could differentiate us just as well?

    MarjV, do know that I'm meditating on your "jewels of black love." It's a puzzlement phrase that I don't think was yet totally answered by us here. If it has, my apologies for missing it. Has been lots of thought-filled posts contributed here this past week.

    Scrawler's posts and postscript comments on Womanhood...are really outstanding. Hopefully, she will also collect them to share on some other I-net forums trying to describe GB's poems.

    Like several others here, "To Be In Love" amazes me no end. I need to co-habitate with it awhile longer before forming a worthwhile comment. We could do far worse than dedicating a whole well-spent month discussing just this one GB poem. (Or several of her others.)

    JoanK
    May 21, 2006 - 11:12 pm
    A Poetry story:

    I liked the link on the poetry book for children ("Poetry Speaks to Children" with the CD of poets, including GB, reading their poems. So I ordered it through Amazon, asking them to mail it as a gift to my three grandsons: ages 7, 4, and going-on-3.

    I thought that seven would like it. By my four is Mr. Macho man. My son laughed when I told him what I'd done. "All he likes are trucks and Power rangers. He'll never listen to poetry". I wasn't sure about going-on-three.

    My GS are good kids, but no three brothers playing together are good all the time. My daughter said the book arrived during the "arsenic hour" when the kids are so noisy, your head begins to spin.

    Daughter put on the CD, and complete silence instantly descended. They were glued to it, listening and looking at the pictures. They listened to fifteen poems.

    Then seven was ready to do something else. But four (MR. Macho) was still glued to the CD player. No one had ever told him that listening to poems was sissy. I hope no one ever does.

    And my daughter (Miss-I-Hate-Poetry) was just as enthralled. By GB. And by hearing the voices of the poets. "There was Robert Frost, reading a poem. I thought he was dead."

    He is. So is GB. There is something thrilling about hearing a voice from the past. I told her about Walt Whitman. When Edison invented the phonograph, he invited Whitman to his lab, and recorded him reading from Leaves of Grass." One of the earliest records made. And you can listen to it on the Web. 0

    annafair
    May 22, 2006 - 01:51 am
    I have gifted my grandchildren with books of all kinds and they read some I am hoping they will read more But a CD of poetry now that is a wonderful idea...I refuse to buy them toys Although I did find some great learning disks for their computers at Christmas and I understand they have used them and even liked them The best gift I gave to the fathers was a bird house kit With all the parts to make a bird house I told the dads they were to oversee the building but not do it. I have seen the finished products One grandson had written messages on his birdhouse on the roof LAND HERE ..at the entrance DOOR with an arrow pointing to the door, It was huge success For some reason I ordered an extra one and will give that to my doctors son .They have a new baby (the oldest one being eight) and I am taking the bird house kit to him and will tell him how wonderful to have a baby brother but how wonderful for the baby brother to have an older brother. Being the first born he will get to do everything first and the baby will look up to him So when he and his dad finish the birdhouse ..and Landon is older he can show him how to make a birdhouse too. I am always looking for different gifts for my grandchildren and your idea is one of the best yet! Thanks for that suggestion .. anna

    annafair
    May 22, 2006 - 03:29 am
    I have read this poem over several times and cant decide if this is about a city that has passed its prime and all the best has passed and she is telling us that it is too bad that it happened and in disbelief declares it has to be a joke. That time has muffed it ..Made a mistake or is this a personal comment about life? the end of life? I guess you could interpret it either way. GB doesnt make it easy for us ..but she sure challenges us to think.I love the part where she says I am cold in this cold house ,in this house .Whose washed echoes are tremolous down lost halls. That resonates with me ..The children are gone, my husband is gone , the house is empty but I hear echoes down the halls of what used to be,..What do you think? anna

    A Sunset of the City


    Kathleen Eileen


    Already I am no longer looked at with lechery or love
    My daughters and sons have put me away with marbles and dolls ,
    Are gone from the house.
    My husband or lovers are pleasant or somewhat polite
    And night is night.


    It is real chill out,
    The genuine things,
    I am not deceived , I do not think it is still summer
    Because sun stays and birds continue to sing.


    It is summer gone that I see, it is summer gone.
    The sweet flowers indrying and dying down.


    It is real chill out, The fall crisp comes
    I am aware there is winter to heed
    There is no warm house
    That is fitted with my need.


    I am cold in this cold house, this house
    Whose washed echoes are tremulous down lost halls,
    I am a woman , and dusty , standing among new affairs,
    I am a woman who hurries through her prayers.


    Tin intimations of a quiet core to be my
    Desert and my dear relief
    Come: there shall be such islanding from grief,
    And small communion with the master shore.
    Twang they . And I incline this ear to tin,
    Consult a dual dilemma. Whether to dry
    In humming pallor or to leap and die.


    Somebody muffed it? Somebody wanted to joke .


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    Alliemae
    May 22, 2006 - 05:26 am
    The city...the hub, if you will. Isn't that the role women have played in home and family?

    I heard a woman growing old...alone now...where once she was 'the city'.

    And I've said this same thing to myself in one way or another: "Somebody muffed it? Somebody wanted to joke."

    How often these days do I cry for things that used to be. How angry do I become at this cosmic joke where just when we really are able and have the time to appreciate life, it is getting ready to leave us.

    Even car dealers had enough sense to make removable parts and easily replaceable parts...and yet, here we are trying our best to be 'deserving' of meeting an omnipotent and omnicient Highest of Powers who has given us all the wonders of this world and we dare not anger the Power by resenting that it was all designed to end too soon...whenever it may end.

    That's what I got from this poem (I guess with a lot of me, at this stage of my life with some of my moods, intertwined).

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 22, 2006 - 08:53 am
    When I realized what a dreary post I had left I came back to copy and save it till I was sure I wanted it to be posted but alas! was too late to edit or delete. Such is life. What did my father always say, "You are the master of the unspoken word, but the spoken word is your master!" He was right...

    Alliemae

    annafair
    May 22, 2006 - 10:15 am
    There is no need to delete or edit your post It was valid all the way and I agree with you and I supect everyone will see what you are saying .

    Reminded me of my mother As she aged ( she died at 86) she kept having different health concerns and in a letter she wrote after being told she had another concern She told the doctor "What I need is a new engine! I dont mind the old body but a new engine would really help! " You see you are right on target and I suspect a lot of people feel the same..

    anna

    Scrawler
    May 22, 2006 - 12:01 pm
    Who said that we can never go home? Perhaps we can go "home" in our memories, but in time some of those memories fad and others just don't ring true any more. Yes, I could use a few "new" body parts. But when I start feeling that way I write a story in which somebody does exactly that and oh the "horror" of it all. So in the end I accept the fact that I am growing old and must either adapt to it if I want to go on with my life. But I do give thanks for what "memories" I do have.

    Thanks for the heads up on the new poets. The only one I've ever heard of is Edna St. Vincent Millay.

    Womanhood: Part II:

    Life for my child is simple, and is good.
    He knows his wish. Yes, but that is not all.
    Because I know mine too.
    And we both want joy of undeep and unabiding things,
    Like kicking over a chair or throwing blocks out of a window
    Or tipping over an icebox pan
    Or snatching down curtains or fingering an electric outlet
    Or a journey or a friend or an illegal kiss.
    No. There is more to it than that.
    It is that he has never been afraid.
    Rather, he reaches out and lo the chair falls with a beautiful
    crash,
    And the blocks fall on the people's heads,
    And the water comes slooshing sloppily out across the floor.
    And so forth.
    Not that success, for him, is sure, infallible.
    But never has he been afraid to reach.
    His lesions are legion
    But reaching is his rule.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    Perhaps this is the very answer we have been searching for - not new body parts - but using ours as if we were children. Not being afraid to reach out and explore our world as if we were young. There is a short story written by Ray Bradbury [I think he's the author] where all the people at a nursing home start acting like kids with interesting results.

    JoanK
    May 22, 2006 - 08:24 pm
    "But reaching is his rule." Good!

    Scrawler
    May 23, 2006 - 12:05 pm
    Carried her unprotesting out the door.
    Kicked back the casket-stand. But it cant's hold her,
    That stuff and satin aiming to enfold her,
    The lid's contrition nor the bolts before.
    Oh oh. Too much. Even now, surmise,
    She rises in the sunshine. There she goes,
    Back to the bars she knew and the repose
    In love-rooms and the things in people's eyes.
    To vital and too squeaking. Must emerge.
    Even now she does the snake-hips with a hiss,
    Slops the bad wine across her shantung, talks
    Of pregnancy, guitars and bridgework, walks
    In parks or alleys, comes haply on the verge
    Of happiness, haply hysterics. Is.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    I love this poem about corpses. Why shouldn't they go off and what has made the happy as when they were alive.

    MarjV
    May 23, 2006 - 01:08 pm
    It seems in this poem her personality is larger than any death or casket. It sure did make me smile.

    Isn't this a great line ! Even now she does the snake-hips with a hiss

    Alliemae
    May 24, 2006 - 07:03 am
    Scrawler, I heartedly and whole heartedly agree with you!

    Oh how I enjoyed this poem. Yes, about death...but so filled with life!

    MarjV That was a great line, " Even now she does the snake-hips with a hiss"...what a grand and triumphant line!

    But my favorite..."Is."

    That expresses all the hope of beyond this life for me.

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 24, 2006 - 07:08 am
    I love "Is" too. Like MarjV, I think it means this woman lived life for all its worth. Her presence will live on long after her death.

    hats
    May 24, 2006 - 07:10 am
    Scrawler and Alliemae, I like your thoughts too. I enjoyed the poem.

    Scrawler
    May 24, 2006 - 11:14 am
    And if sun comes
    How shall we greet him?
    Shall we not dread him,
    Shall we not fear him
    After so length a
    Session with shade?
    Though we have wept for him,
    Though we have prayed
    All through the night years -
    What if we wake one shimmering morning to
    Hear the fierce hammering
    Of his firm knuckles
    Hard on the door?

    Shall we not shudder?-
    Shall we not flee
    Into the shelter, the dear thick shelter
    Of the familiar
    Propitious haze?

    Sweet is it, sweet is it
    To sleep in the coolness
    Of snug unawareness.

    The dark hangs heavily
    Over the eyes.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    This I think is GB being practical and living in the moment. I believe that this poem refers to the coming of Christ and I can't help feel that with all our bravado that I know I would feel just a little bit in awe. So much so that knowing what I know now I doubt that I could be in His presence and not be afraid. Fear is not only part of our humanity; it can be a healthy thing at times.

    hats
    May 24, 2006 - 11:22 am
    Scrawler,

    I love your comment. I didn't think of the Christ's return. The poem does have a religious overtone. I also think of Adam and Eve hiding in the garden after the loss of their innocence, too afraid to come into contact with their Creator's sinlessness.

    hats
    May 25, 2006 - 09:08 am
    This is a very long poem. I will give part of it.

    Your every day is a pilgrimage.
    A blue hubbub.
    Your days are collected bacchanals of fear and self-troubling.


    And your nights! Your nights.
    When you put you down in alley or cardboard or viaduct,
    your lovers are rats, finding your secret places.


    Gwendolyn Brooks


    I find this poem heartbreaking. It goes to Gwendolyn Brooks' credit that the woman comes across as real. I can almost see a woman's face in my mind.

    I am not very familiar with the word "bacchanal."

    "Your lovers are rats." Such a horrid rodent makes a bed with this woman, not a child, a husband, a brother but a animal. Oh mercy, what a life.

    Scrawler
    May 25, 2006 - 11:15 am
    Hats, I agree GB does make the "old woman" so real.

    XI: Truth:

    One wants a Teller in a time like this.

    One's not a man, one's not a woman grown.
    To bear enormous business all alone.

    One cannot walk this winding street with pride
    Straight-shoulder, tranquil-eyed
    Knowing one knows for sure the way back home.
    One wonders if one has a home.
    One is not certain if or why or how.
    One wants a Teller now:-

    Put on your rubbers and you won't catch cold.
    Here's hell, there's heaven. Go to Sunday School.
    Be patient, time brings all good things - (and cool
    Strong balm to calm the burning at the brain?)--
    Behold,
    Love's true, and triumphs, and God's actual.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    I think this poem says it all in the last line: "Love's true, and triumphs, and God's actual." I interrupt that to mean that love is not only true, but it will also triumph over everything else in our lives and it because there really is a God who watches over us all.

    MarjV
    May 25, 2006 - 11:18 am
    What a great poem, Hats. Thanks for posting it. It's ugliness has beauty in having the story told. There are people who live that way.

    Bacchanal is orgy, lack of control or moderation. In other words her days are controlled by her fears and self troublings. A situation of no love & care & comfort.

    Very sad.

    hats
    May 25, 2006 - 12:45 pm
    Oh boy, am I on a friendship trip or what? Scrawler, I love this part of the poem. It makes me think that life is tough. For example, I often think how hard the world must seem to those who can't catch on to the new thingamigetts around: the computer, the computerized self service stations in the stores, etc. How in the world can we get through life alone without support, a friend?

    One's not a man, one's not a woman grown.
    To bear enormous business all alone.


    Of course, "Teller" is capitalized. What exactly does she mean by a "Teller?" Is that just another word for a "Helper?"

    MarjV, thank you for the definition of "Bacchanal." It seems I remember a mythological god named Bacchus or maybe a painting? I'm trying to remember.

    Just think this woman never has one moment of peace. All of her moments are filled with fear and "self troubles."

    hats
    May 25, 2006 - 12:49 pm
    Bacchus

    I'm not sure. I think many famous artists painted Bacchas.

    hats
    May 25, 2006 - 12:53 pm
    A lot of poets included mythological characters in their poetry. Did one poet in particular use more Mythology than another? Did one era in History or one movement use more Mythology than another?

    In the homeless lady's poem it's interesting Gwendolyn Brooks used the word "pilgrimage." I always connect a "pilgrimage' with a religious journey.

    MarjV
    May 25, 2006 - 01:13 pm
    to take a trip especially of some distance <tourists pilgrimaging to all of the traditional destinations across Europe>

    Yes, the word is used often in religious connotations. And who's to say this woman's life wasn't a reglious pilgrimage - isn't all of life really. We are spiritual beings whether we chose to acknowledge it or not.

    -and there's more from wikipedia: A pilgrimage is a term primarily used in religion and spirituality of a long journey or search of great moral significance. Sometimes, it is a journey to a sacred place or shrine of importance to a person's beliefs and faith. Members of every religion participate in pilgrimages. A person who makes such a journey is called a pilgrim.

    Secular and civic pilgrimages are also practiced, without regard for religion but rather of importance to a particular society. For example, many people throughout the world travel to the City of Washington in the United States for a pilgrimage to see the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States. British people often make pilgrimages to London for public appearances of the monarch of the United Kingdom.

    Pop culture has also sought to redefine pilgrimages, defining a demoscene party as a pilgrimage

    hats
    May 25, 2006 - 01:16 pm
    MarjV, good post.

    JoanK
    May 25, 2006 - 05:17 pm
    Here's hell, there's heaven. Go to Sunday School. 
    Be patient, time brings all good things - (and cool 
    Strong balm to calm the burning at the brain?)-- 
    Behold, 
    Love's true, and triumphs, and God's actual.


    I don't know if the last line is what GB sees as true, or whether it's ironic (or do I mean sarcastic?) She's repeating all the things we are told as children are true. Is she saying they are right, or is she questioning them?

    MarjV
    May 26, 2006 - 05:51 am
    When you rise in another morning,
    you hit the street, your incessant enemy.

    See? You are here in the so busy world.
    You walk. You walk.
    You pass The People.
    No. The People pass you.

    Here's a Rich Girl marching briskly to her charms,
    She is suede and scarf and belting and perfume.
    She sees you not, she sees you very well.
    At five in the afternoon Miss Rich Girl will go Home,
    to brooms and vacuum cleaner and carpeting,
    two-cats, two marble-top tables, two telelphones,
    shiny green peppers, flowers in impudent vases,
    visitors.
    Before all that there is luncheon to be known.
    Lasagna, lobster salad, sandwiches.
    All day there's coffee to be loved.
    There are luxuries
    of minor idssatisfaction, luxuries of Plan.

    - - - - - -

    The second verse of this part is powerful. Our old woman is "passed by". Following on the words of the first verse where she awakes to start a day with the "incessant enemy." The day of verse one goes on and on and on, repeated into the infinity of her earthly days.

    And have you ever experienced not being seen !!!!!

    And what about the "luxuries of minor dissatifactions". This old woman does not have the luxury.

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 06:07 am
    MarjV, the "experience of not being seen." Isn't that powerful? Everyday she faces people who would rather pretend the homeless woman doesn't exist. This woman owns a present, past and future. How horrible that we choose not to see her, really, to erase her existence.

    How many ways do we hurt other people just because we believe ourselves to be important and significant?

    Alliemae
    May 26, 2006 - 06:11 am
    "One's not a man, one's not a woman grown.
    To bear enormous business all alone.

    One cannot walk this winding street with pride
    Straight-shoulder, tranquil-eyed
    Knowing one knows for sure the way back home.
    One wonders if one has a home."


    When I read this I think of the young all over the world...the gang-rapes in Africa...the (mis)use of young boys, convincing them that it's a Holy Act to wear a bomb into a crowded marketplace...and I think of here, in our big cities...mere children without pride, direction or security or yes, without even a home, either materially or metaphorically...

    GB tells it like it is and leaves it to the reader to figure out if that last line means truth and security, or the dreadful, dreadful irony of it all...

    Or maybe she just wants us to experience some tiny spark that picks at the back of our heads like a wayward hairpin until we finally get annoyed enough to do something about taking care of each other, which is 'our job'...and not leave it up to some Other...

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 07:10 am
    That's her story,
    You're going to vanish, not necessarily nicely, fairly soon,
    Although essentially dignity itself a death
    is not necessarily tidy, modest or discreet.
    When they find you
    your legs may not be tidy nor aligned.
    Your mouth may be all crooked or destroyed.


    Black old woman, homeless, indistinct_ Your last and least adventure is Review.
    Folks used to celebrate your birthday!
    Folks used to say "She's such a pretty little thing!"
    Folks used to say "She draws such handsome horses, cows
    and houses,"
    Folks used to say "That child is going far."


    Gwendolyn Brooks

    I think this part of the poem puts a face to our Black, Homeless woman. Where will life take us? Do we know?

    annafair
    May 26, 2006 - 08:17 am
    Spending 5 hours in a doctors office is very tiring so I have been away recovering..Nothing serious just the way it is sometimes in a doctors office.

    I read GB before I thought she would be a good poet to discuss in depth and every poem I read just demanded I read more. She touches us with truth but her poetry has a solemn beauty as she asks us the questions we should be asking. How many times have you passed a homeless person by and really wished you could do something about it? I dont see homeless in the area where I live since I live on a peninsula and the city has moved out to the country where our home stood 35 years ago but I have been in cities even years ago where there were homeless sitting on a street begging, Then I would put something in thier hat or cup Would I do the same now? Years and years ago when people without means or money would hitchhike and trust the generosity of others to give them a lift and many did My aunt and uncle did when I was traveling with them and it was always rather a jolly thing, One of my brothers hitchhiked to Texas when he was young ( late teens) met some of the nicest people who invited him to stay with them and he stayed friends with some for many years. Nowadays we fear the misplaced, the lost , the homeless, the hitchhiker and rightfully so I am afraid and that is a sad commentary on what we have become.

    Since this is Memorial Day weekend I chose the last poem in Gay Chaps at the Bar, The war is over (WWII) and they are remembering.Last evening I think it was I was watching a reporter , news caster interviewing a veteran from WWII and asked him to tell what it had been like, I watched the face on the veterans face ,,,his smile disappeared , his eyes teared as he remembered and then he said I cant do that ..I am not sure the young reporter appreciated what the veteran was saying silently WAR IS HORRIBLE and all you can hope that SOMEDAY we wont war anymore. SO here is the verse I chose. anna

    the progress


    And still we wear our uniforms, follow
    The cracked cry of the bugles, comb and brush
    Our pride and prejudice, doctor the sallow
    Initial ardor, wish to keep it fresh.
    Still we applaud the President’s voice and face.
    Still we remark on patriotism, sing,
    Salute the flag , thrill heavily , rejoice
    For death of men who too saluted , sang.
    But inward grows a soberness ,an awe,
    A fear, a deepening hollow through the cold.
    For even if we come out standing up
    How shall we smile, congratulate : and how
    Settle into chairs? Listen , listen, The step
    Of iron feet again. And again wild.


    Gwendolyn Brooks From Gay Chaps at the bar ..

    Alliemae
    May 26, 2006 - 09:45 am
    Dear anna...a perfect selection for this weekend...

    "comb and brush
    Our pride and prejudice,


    and...

    "For even if we come out standing up
    How shall we smile, congratulate : and how
    Settle into chairs?


    say it all for me...

    I had uncles who fought in both the European and the Far East 'theaters'* who never ever were able to speak about their war experiences after they came home.

    alliemae

  • theater...now that's irony...to call the war zones 'theaters'...
  • MarjV
    May 26, 2006 - 09:48 am
    "Gay Chaps" poem reminds - while I was walking I was listening to Canadian radio and they were reporting on the funeral of a soldier died in Iraq. There were many visitors at the funeral home . And an attendee said - yes, I should come here even if I didn't know her. It is because of the soldiers I am free.

    - - - - - --- - - -

    On the "Old Woman....". What greater honor can we give a person at a death than to Review the times that were good. The "fallen" haven't always been in the muck.

    Alliemae
    May 26, 2006 - 09:52 am
    About the 'rich girl'...

    I've been a working girl and woman and I was a bit taken aback by this poet's depiction of the 'Old Black Woman's' presumption that just because you get dressed for work and go to a job you come home to 'lobster' and 'marble table tops'...

    I used to come home to the same pot of stewed beans, greens and rice which I made each weekend so that with my meager but hard-earned secretary's salary I could keep up with the minimal expenses of my life.

    Isn't it unbelievable the way we all see each other, and how we make assumptions.

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    May 26, 2006 - 11:44 am
    Bacchus is the god of wine and drink. I can't remember now if he is a Roman or Greek god.

    These are indeed powerful poems. Ones that not only show is what life is all about, but also forces us to ponder its cause and effect.

    A Catch of Shy Fish:

    garbage man: the man with the orderly mind

    What do you think of us in fuzzy endeavor, you whose di-
    rections are sterling, whose lunge is straight?
    Can you make a reason, how can you pardon us who memorize
    the rules and never score?
    Who memorize the rules from your own text but never quite
    transfer them to the game
    Who never quite receive the whistling ball, who gawk, begin
    to absorb the crowd's own roar.

    Is earnestness enough, may earnestness attract or lead to light;
    Is light enough, if hands in clumsy frenzy, flimsy whimsicality,
    enlist;
    Is light enough when this bewilderment crying against the dark
    shuts down the shades?
    Dilute confusion. Find and explode our mist.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    I'm not sure the meaning behind this poem by GB, but it does remind me of the time in grade school, where we were asked to write about our fathers. Living in Silicon Valley most of our fathers worked in the "new" space field, engineers for the most part trying hard to develop a spacecraft to be the first on the moon. But there was one little girl whose father was a garbage man and I'll never forget that after most of us had talked about our fathers being so important because they were in the spacecraft industry that this little girl talked about how her father was so important because he picked up our garbage and what would happen to our lives in suburbia if there weren't men like him. I've never forgotten that little girl. She made me see how everyone around me was just important as the next person. To most of us at the time "garbage men" were part of the invisible, but after that report they indeed became very real and meaningful to us.

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 12:24 pm
    "The "fallen" haven't always been in the muck."

    MarjV, what powerful words you have written.

    Scrawler, what a special story you have to remember.

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 12:27 pm
    AnnaFair,

    You always knit our words together and make the poems more special. Your comment about the Homeless is very poignant. It's a lot to think over.

    Do you have a poem to share with us for Memorial Day? One, Anna, that you have written.

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 12:30 pm
    Alliemae, I think in the Homeless poem Gwendolyn Brooks might have used exageration to describe the working woman. I am sure anything working people had to eat would seem like caviar to a woman spending time looking in dumpsters for her lunch or dinner. I hope that makes sense.

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 12:31 pm
    I have forgotten how to spell exaggeration. I can't get it right. You guys will have to come up with the right spelling. Excuse me.

    annafair
    May 26, 2006 - 12:48 pm
    Hats you encourage me to share my own poems All I can say about any of them they are from my heart, my deepest feelings and many from my memories of the times I lived in ...I have several about Memorial Day Armed Forces Day or whatever they are called now Armistice was one and then there is the 4th of July the following poem was written on July 3 2003 but my first born asked to use it for her website for Memorial Day so since it was easy to copy and paste I offer it to you ..anna

    Come ye heroes Rise Up


    From your graves, wherever they may be.
    Some honored, some unmarked, some beneath the sea.
    Today we need to celebrate each of you,
    Who fought ,though ill supplied, against enemies
    On every side. We need to honor you .
    Do not let US forget the price you paid.
    The debt we owe, and less we forget
    Amidst the picnics and parades
    To honor you. Let us kneel and PRAY!
    To thank you for your sacrifice, for your family
    Left alone to face the future. They too were brave,
    To kiss you and say goodbye and never know
    If you would die and left behind in an unmarked spot,
    Or maimed and crippled return to say,
    I am glad and have no remorse for the gift I fought
    To save. Freedom, Oh use it well for it can tarnish
    Without your help. I beg of you don't let anyone take it away.
    Ring your bells, wave the flags, cheer the living
    And bless the dead. AND Thank God with heart and soul
    Or come and lie with me.


    anna alexander July 3, 2003©

    Alliemae
    May 26, 2006 - 12:52 pm
    Hi Hats, I'm sure you're right. And lots of artists use exaggeration to point things out.

    I haven't yet trained myself to respond to poetry and literature in groups with the 'larger eye'...the art/literary critic's eye...and I realize I post with excessive personal impression and experiences.

    I think reading Mary Oliver's books on poetry will help me with my participation in group discussions, and I won't be so subjective.

    I think I've also seen somewhere within SeniorNet some pointers re: participating in group book discussions as well.

    It's a good thing I love learning...I sure seem to have a lot to learn!

    Thanks, Hats!

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    May 26, 2006 - 12:54 pm
    The "Shy Fish" poem is not immediately clear to me either.

    I say "AMEN" to Anna's memorial poem.

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 01:03 pm
    MarjV, I second your "amen."

    Anna, your poem catches the mood of Memorial Day. It will help keep those fighting and those we have lost in mind this weekend. Your words truly come from the heart. Thank you for sharing your work of art.

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 01:05 pm
    Alliemae, we can enjoy learning together. Learning is a part of life. Learning makes our lives richer.

    annafair
    May 26, 2006 - 01:09 pm
    About military members since all 5 of my brothers were in service and the younger two were career members as well as my husband who was a pilot in the USAF and of course we had and still have those who served with us ..anyway I emailed this poem to my daugther mentioned in the previous post since I had written it in February when I read that the government was going to offer recorded Taps ..and I am sorry it made me angry I understand we may not have enough on active duty to to that honor but I have attended military funerals where members of a military association did the honor ie DAV. VFW.American Legion , etc and even some Boy scouts I am sure even some who are in school bands would do the honor You just have to ask.. even ROTC units will do the honors ..in any case I wrote the following poem which my daughter is also going to use on her website And I have more these are just easy to locate or I might inundate you with them anna

    Do not tell me
    No bugles will play
    When our heroes
    Are laid to rest
    Their service ended
    At the close of their days
    We cant afford
    To pay a bugler ?
    Someone who plays
    Someone who knows
    What sacrifice is all about?
    A recording ?
    Is that what you offer
    To the mother?
    The father?
    The wife ,the child?
    A record does not care
    If you thank it or not
    It sheds no tears
    Nor offers a final salute
    Do not tell me
    No bugler will play


    anna Alexander 2/22/06©

    MarjV
    May 26, 2006 - 02:11 pm
    Wow!, Anna. Where are the volunteer buglers ! I know in the Detroit area there is a group of bagpipers (can't remember their org, right now) who will play voluntarily at funerals.

    - - -

    And in response to Alliemae - there are wealthy working women who strut their stuff & all their "charms" as Gwendolyn put it. In addition to those who barely get by and struggle each day for rent and food as you described.

    hats
    May 26, 2006 - 02:21 pm
    Anna,

    I feel your anger. I feel the same way. Are we losing compassion or caring feelings for those who have sacrificed so much?

    Alliemae
    May 26, 2006 - 05:05 pm
    "And in response to Alliemae - there are wealthy working women who strut their stuff & all their "charms" as Gwendolyn put it." (MarjV)

    Yes, MarjV, as I said in my previous post...I do understand that I was speaking too quickly out of my own personal experience and will do better to become a better poetry reader and learn more objective analysis before I participate again. But thank you for your opinion.

    MarjV
    May 27, 2006 - 04:39 am
    We want you to speak "whatever", Alliemae. That's what part of this is, DIALOGUE. Without any dialogue it becomes boring. Sorry that I missed your response earlier -

    hats
    May 27, 2006 - 05:28 am
    MarjV, yes, I agree. We would miss your speaking very much. Each opinion may be different. Still, each opinion gives us more to weigh and think about. Alliemae your opinion is a part of this little corner. If one voice goes away, we know it and miss it.

    annafair
    May 27, 2006 - 07:00 am
    How any of your voices would be missed if you failed to come in and say what you think and feel When for any reason I must be away you have no idea how I hunger to return and HEAR your voices To read what you think about the poems and poet we are discussing and how you are affected by what we share here and the special memories and feelings expressed .

    I see us gathered together in a room ( this room ) and it is so pleasant your faces are not clear because the room is dim ..it is a garden room with flowers and greenery everywhere >>the light is filtered by all the greenery and your faces are soft as are your voices It is a special place and how empty would be the chair if one fo you would not be there

    I thank you so much ...from the bottom of my heart so please this is an open forum ..each person can say what they want, can differ or agree or just say Hmmmm well maybe just come and say whatever you feel a need to say ..but please dont stay away I feel you are my family ...and I care for each ..love always anna

    Scrawler
    May 27, 2006 - 11:46 am
    Thanks for the memorial day poems. I too feel your pain and offer these poems to you all in rememberence:

    Americans in France:

    They arrived at St. Nazaire
    And stood before the dawn
    And shaved by metal mirrors
    And were proud one and all<p.> The Germans first attacked at
    Rhine-Marne Canal and the
    Losses were not heavy
    But we felt them all

    Next the Battle of Belleau Wood
    Did follow and we crouched
    And stayed through the cool dawn
    And tried to see over the wall

    Then came the battle Marne
    As we pushed the Germans back again
    Each day one died and then another
    And we buried them next to the wall

    And because we had courage we fought
    At Aisane-Marne, Amiens, and St. Mihiel
    Youth ready to be wasted but we endured
    And we buried them all at the wall

    ~ Anne M. Ogle (Scrawler) "A Century to Remember"

    The Crimson Walk

    As we walk the crimson walk
    In the season of the Child's birth
    Sailors and soldiers fall in the land of paradise

    As we walk the crimson walk
    In the season of the snow and wind
    Soldiers fall in the land of bamboo trees

    As we walk the crimson walk
    In the season of the small plant
    Soldiers fall in the march of death

    As we walk the crimson walk
    In the season of the heat
    Sailors fall on the high seas

    As we walk the crimson walk
    In the season of the heat
    Soldiers fall in the land shaped like a boot

    As we walk the crimson walk
    In the season of the harvest
    Sailors and soldiers fall in the land of tropical winds

    As we walk the crimson walk
    In the season of the small heat
    Soldiers fall in the fatherland

    As we walk the crimson walk
    In the season of the heat
    Civilians fall under the mushroom clouds

    ~Anne M. Ogle (Scrawler) "A Century to Remember"

    Vietnam

    Vietnam - take a few
    moments to remember
    those you left behind

    ~ Anne M. Ogle (Scrawler) "A Century to Remember"

    MarjV
    May 28, 2006 - 01:27 pm
    I'm posting one of the poems she wrote in the name of chilren. From Booklist at Amazon.com: Neither idealizing nor pitying them, Brooks captures the fierce purity of these children's needs and desires. Her loving witness never sounded more clearly than in these late poems. Patricia Monaghan

    Questions Mary Francis

    Home is a Shape before me.
    I travel three bocks to Home.

    Are the dishes in the sink, still,
    with morning yellow dried on?
    And
    is there another color in the kitchen?
    (The kitchen is where he whips her.)
    Is red all over Mama once again?
    Is pa still home, with a mean and sliding mouth?
    With hands like hams.
    With
    stares that are scissors, tornadoes.

    annafair
    May 28, 2006 - 02:16 pm
    First let me thank you Anne for posting those great poems Since I had uncles who fought in WWI the poems that speak of that time mean a lot to me And of course many of us have lived through a whole series of wars ..I guess it is too much to hope that someday there WILL BE PEACE and men will wage war no more.

    Marjv that poem just tears me up .. One reason I watch less TV than before because it seems there is a race on to show the worst of mankind ...Do you think it possible if we showed more of forgiveness and loving at least in equal portions that it might affect some people to do good instead of bad? We have had so many child abuse cases here that were so horrible it made me ill .

    I am going to share a poem I always do on Memorial day

    In Flanders Fields
    By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
    Canadian Army


    IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
    Between the crosses row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
    Scarce heard amid the guns below.


    We are the Dead. Short days ago
    We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie
    In Flanders fields.


    Take up our quarrel with the foe:
    To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.
    If ye break faith with us who die
    We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
    In Flanders fields.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    McCrae's "In Flanders Fields" remains to this day one of the most memorable war poems ever written. It is a lasting legacy of the terrible battle in the Ypres salient in the spring of 1915. Here is the story of the making of that poem: Although he had been a doctor for years and had served in the South African War, it was impossible to get used to the suffering, the screams, and the blood here, and Major John McCrae had seen and heard enough in his dressing station to last him a lifetime.

    As a surgeon attached to the 1st Field Artillery Brigade, Major McCrae, who had joined the McGill faculty in 1900 after graduating from the University of Toronto, had spent seventeen days treating injured men -- Canadians, British, Indians, French, and Germans -- in the Ypres salient.

    It had been an ordeal that he had hardly thought possible. McCrae later wrote of it:

    "I wish I could embody on paper some of the varied sensations of that seventeen days... Seventeen days of Hades! At the end of the first day if anyone had told us we had to spend seventeen days there, we would have folded our hands and said it could not have been done."

    One death particularly affected McCrae. A young friend and former student, Lieut. Alexis Helmer of Ottawa, had been killed by a shell burst on 2 May 1915. Lieutenant Helmer was buried later that day in the little cemetery outside McCrae's dressing station, and McCrae had performed the funeral ceremony in the absence of the chaplain.

    The next day, sitting on the back of an ambulance parked near the dressing station beside the Canal de l'Yser, just a few hundred yards north of Ypres, McCrae vented his anguish by composing a poem. The major was no stranger to writing, having authored several medical texts besides dabbling in poetry.

    In the nearby cemetery, McCrae could see the wild poppies that sprang up in the ditches in that part of Europe, and he spent twenty minutes of precious rest time scribbling fifteen lines of verse in a notebook.

    A young soldier watched him write it. Cyril Allinson, a twenty-two year old sergeant-major, was delivering mail that day when he spotted McCrae. The major looked up as Allinson approached, then went on writing while the sergeant-major stood there quietly. "His face was very tired but calm as we wrote," Allinson recalled. "He looked around from time to time, his eyes straying to Helmer's grave."

    When McCrae finished five minutes later, he took his mail from Allinson and, without saying a word, handed his pad to the young NCO. Allinson was moved by what he read:

    "The poem was exactly an exact description of the scene in front of us both. He used the word blow in that line because the poppies actually were being blown that morning by a gentle east wind. It never occurred to me at that time that it would ever be published. It seemed to me just an exact description of the scene."

    In fact, it was very nearly not published. Dissatisfied with it, McCrae tossed the poem away, but a fellow officer retrieved it and sent it to newspapers in England. The Spectator, in London, rejected it, but Punch published it on 8 December 1915

    MarjV
    May 28, 2006 - 03:29 pm
    I always really really like the "Flanders Field" poem. And the history with it is so important.

    hats
    May 29, 2006 - 01:58 am
    Anna,

    I love "In Flanders Field." It always makes me want to cry. My favorite lines are,

    We are the Dead. Short days ago
    We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie
    In Flanders fields.


    Scrawler,

    "The Crimson Walk" is my favorite. Along with Anna's poems, your poems have helped me to keep in mind the meaning of this day, Memorial's Day.

    MarjV, I have read "Questions" more than once. There are children who come home to pain and sorrow. This poem just reminds me that of all people in the world children should not suffer. They have just entered our world. Why should they carry the burdens of adults? It's all so complicated. I feel sorry for adults too. Sometimes they are so lost too. It's just a painful social problem for all.

    hats
    May 29, 2006 - 02:10 am
    Thinking of children and all the problems faced by them, I thought of the poem written by Gwendolyn Brooks in tribute to Jane Addams, one of the wonderful women with a caring heart. This is not the whole poem.

    Jane Addams


    I am Jane Addams.
    I am saying to the giantless time--
    to the young and yammering, to the old and corrected,
    well, chiefly to children coming home
    with worried faces and questions about world-survival--
    "Go ahead and live your life.
    You might be surprised. The world might continue."


    Not many people admit to the fact that children worry. Children see the news. Children live with monsters under their bed. Children are little people who don't know what "time" means. Will Christmas come again? Will mommy come again to pick me up?

    I think these are lines of encouragement. Don't give up. Who knows? The world might change its path and become a different world tomorrow.

    hats
    May 29, 2006 - 02:17 am
    What is "the giantless time--?"

    MarjV
    May 29, 2006 - 06:49 am
    I think the "giantless time" is the huge past, present and future.

    - - - -

    Comment on "Crimson Walk". It just came to me ! The repetition of the lines is like the cadence of marchers who took part in all those different wars. A rhythm, a repetition of what has happened in many places that armed forces are posted to preserve freedom.

    MarjV
    May 29, 2006 - 06:55 am
    It was not easy for me, the the days of the giants.
    And now they call me a giant.
    Because my capitals were Labour, Reform, Wellfare,
    Tenement Regulation, Juvenile Court Law (the first),
    Factory Inspection, Workmen's Compensation,
    Woman Suffrage, Pacifism, Immigrant justice.
    And because
    Black, brown, and white and red and yellow
    heavied my hand and my heart.

    - - - - -

    How amazing all the subjects that Jame Addams had her hand & heart in working to correct. I love this poem because it is reminding me. As a youngster I remember now reading her biography. And I don't remember the details.

    And the last two lines in this verse - she was heavied and she strode ahead trying to make a difference.

    Who were the "giants" in her day? Big business I imagine. Industrial Revolution? Factories making money hand over fist.

    Someone probably remembers the exact people who were the giants. A giant has great stature, strength and extraordinary powers.

    Interesting - inthe first verse GB wrote of "giantless time". In this second one she writes of the days of the "giants" - the human side.

    Watch for the next verse -

    hats
    May 29, 2006 - 09:08 am
    MarjV,

    The repetition is what made me like it. I didn't think of the beat of marching feet. Isn't that something?

    Jane Addams, When young, I read her autobiography or biography. I remember being struck for her care of others, her giant concerned heart.

    Alliemae
    May 29, 2006 - 09:17 am
    Usually on Memorial Day weekend I stay in semi-seclusion to reflect on things too big to concentrate on daily but important to remind myself of. Because this year I am part of this poetry group I would like to take some time out to write down a poem or two written by my father during the second world war.

    Democracy

    Arise, arise, Oh Nation great;
    We have a rendezvous with fate.
    A challenge at us has been hurled,
    By madmen who'd enslave the world.

    We must not falter, but decide,
    To fight for freedom side by side.

    For Freedom's challenge has begun,
    On land, on sea and in the air,
    We'll fight for freedom everywhere.

    And Freedom's Flag will wave on high;
    Democracy must never die!

    The Four Freedoms

    Like the roll of distant thunder,
    We can hear the wardrums beat;
    We can hear the earth resounding,
    To the tread of marching feet.

    Proudly, we accept the challenge
    As Our Fathers did before,
    And we'll fight the foes of freedom,
    Till oppression is no more.

    We'll keep the faith Our Fathers kept;
    We'll fight from pole to pole;
    The cause for which they fought and died,
    Must ever be our goal.

    So remember, the objectives we are fighting for are these:
    Freedom throughout all the lands and all the seven seas.

    Freedom of speech, from fear and want,
    And freedom to kneel and nod,
    And worship each in his own way,
    A kind and loving God.

    ...and my own humble attempt...

    (prompted by the speech made by President Bush after placing the wreath on the tomb of the unknowns...)

    "In this place where valor sleeps," he said.
    I knew what he meant; it was said in good faith.
    "Fear not," said I, "it sleeps not"

    It is awake each time we remember,
    With gratitude and humility,
    Remember young women and men,
    Losing life and limb...

    Fighting not to simply 'win a war'
    But to free the world of irrational and deadly tyrrany.

    We honor each and every one of you.
    We keep your loved ones in our hearts.

    We are grateful.
    And we will never forget you.

    Alliemae

    N.B. I'm sure you know that when 'he' and 'our fathers' is written, at least in my dad's case, it means 'mothers and fathers'...

    Alliemae
    May 29, 2006 - 09:25 am
    Thank you all for your thoughts on what this poetry group means. It means a lot to me too, as do each of you and what you have to say.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    May 29, 2006 - 09:30 am
    I believe this is the first time I've read this poem. If I had before, I didn't remember the entire poem although it seems I've always known the name.

    It is truly beautiful and touching...and so is the story of how it became published.

    I'm so glad it was posted here. All of the Memorial poems have been lovely.

    Alliemae

    hats
    May 29, 2006 - 09:42 am
    I shall tell you a thing about giants
    that you do not wish to know:
    Giants look in mirrors and see
    almost nothing at all.
    But they leave their houses nevertheless.
    They lurch out of doors
    to reach you, the other stretchers and strainers.
    Erased under ermine or loud in tatters, oh,
    money or mashed, you
    matter.


    Wow, "giants" are important in this poem. I think the "giants" are the people who are willing to carry the load for the "stretchers and strainers." The people in need matter to other people coming from all walks of life. Gwendolyn Brooks wants these people to know they are not forgotten.

    The people with less are found in every state. Neediness does not have a boundary. The one in ermine and the one in rags all have a different need. Only the "giants" in society can help these people. The "giants" are the ones who are lucky enough to be philanthropists or people who can get an idea across in politics.

    Giants look in mirrors and see
    almost nothing at all.


    Their identity, a picture of themselves comes clear by connecting to those who are lost in society for some reason or other.

    MarjV
    May 29, 2006 - 10:12 am
    Alliemae !!!! Thank you for your father's heartfelt poems.

    And thanks to you for giving us your reflective poem. That is very neat.

    You wrote -"to free the world of irrational and deadly tyrrany." That is so so true. We need that.

    Thanks again. Marj

    hats
    May 29, 2006 - 10:20 am
    Oh Boy, I almost missed Alliemae's father's poems. Alliemae, I am so glad you shared your poetry treasures with us. I can only say your father must have been a very, very special man. Thank you.

    Scrawler
    May 29, 2006 - 10:40 am
    Thanks for all the meaningful posts.

    In this short piece by Hemingway, it probably wouldn't be considered poetry and yet it speaks to me about the men who fought in all wars. "In Hemingway's "Soldier's Home," Krebs, having just returned from the bloody World War I battlefields of Europe, endures his mother's pious lecturing:

    "I've worried about you so much, Harold," his mother went on "I know the temptations you must have been exposed to. I know how weak men are. I know what your own dear grandfather, my own father, told us abut the Civil War and I have prayed for you. I pray for you all day long, Harold."

    Krebs looked at the bacon fat hardening on his plate."

    MarjV
    May 29, 2006 - 11:34 am
    Oh, Scrawler - great quote - and everything comes slamming home in that last line. I'd like to flatten that congealed fat right in her face.

    On another note - I came across this "Psalm for Memorial Day" -

    Psalm for Memorial Day

    What great thoughtful posts today !!!!! Thanks.

    MarjV
    May 29, 2006 - 11:39 am
    You matter, and giants
    must bother.

    I bothered.


    Now I say - this all fits in with Mem. Day in another way. Each and every service person is a giant. And I just heard that two CBS news people were killed today in their work in Iraq; another one critically injured. They are also giants. We matter AND and all the aforementioned bother.

    hats
    May 29, 2006 - 12:21 pm
    Whatever I was tells you
    the world might continue. Go on with your preparations,
    moving among the quick and the dead;
    nourishing here, there;
    pressing a hand
    among the ruins
    and among the
    seeds of restoration.


    In this part Gwendolyn Brooks seems to encourage those in need to do what they can do. They must choose not to give up. In order not to give up a person must give whatever he or she can to other people. Even a touch of the hand matters to those who need nourishing. We must not doubt our ability to give in some way. In this way, the giant population will grow and expand. The world will not die because man became inhumane. Then, Jane Addams legacy will live on.

    The poem is not done.

    MarjV
    May 29, 2006 - 01:22 pm
    So speaks a giant, Jane.

    So, Gwendolyn has given us a legacy to remember in this seond millenium AD.

    Jane was a formidable thinker. Following is an excerpt from a bio. Jane Addams was right in GB's beloved Chicago area. No wonder this poem came from her heart.

    Born in Cedarville, Illinois on September 6, 1860 and graduated from Rockford College in 1882, Jane Addams founded the world famous social settlement Hull-House on Chicago's Near West Side in 1889. From Hull House, where she lived and worked until her death in 1935, Jane Addams built her reputation as the country's most prominent woman through her writing, her settlement work, and her international efforts for world peace.

    Around Hull-House, which was located at the corner of Polk and Halsted Streets, immigrants to Chicago crowded into a residential and industrial neighborhood. Italians, Russian and Polish Jews, Irish, Germans, Greeks and Bohemians predominated. Jane Addams and the other residents of the settlement provided services for the neighborhood, such as kindergarten and daycare facilities for children of working mothers, an employment bureau, an art gallery, libraries, and music and art classes. By 1900 Hull House activities had broadened to include the Jane Club (a cooperative residence for working women), the first Little Theater in America, a Labor Museum and a meeting place for trade union groups.http://www.uic.edu/jaddams/hull/ja_bio.html

    Jim in Jeff
    May 29, 2006 - 04:50 pm
    For anyone interested, "In Flanders Fields" background info is at: http://www.greatwar.co.uk/poems/faith.htm If you go there, please do take the time to click on "next" links in lower right hand corners. It takes several pages to read the whole story. Well worth the trip, I think.

    After 28 years in DC area, I now live 1000 miles from our nation's capital. So I watched that 90-minute PBS-TV live Memorial Day concert on TV (17th annual show). I'd attended their first (and about four following) concerts in DC. It's not a good view for us in live audience. Most of us sit "on the hill" between stage and Capitol building...except for front-row honorees and a few early-comers.

    But on TV...WOW. We get to see the whole thing, as ideally conceived by producers. This year's concert was particularly moving for me.

    War Poets: I'd like to include Wilfred Owens. His war was WW I (then called simpy the Great War). He died young, near WW I's end.

    My first intro to Owens was during my personal 1980s odyssey to learn "classical music" appreciation. In that genre, England's Sir Benjamin Britten (1913-1976) wrote his powerful "WAR REQUIEM" in 1962. I first heard it in a three-pronged moving experience: live symphony music with vocalists; war-film scenes (I forget the film-maker); and Owens' poignant war poems scrolling across the screen.

    Here's a website with brief info on Wilfred Owens (with links to some of his poems: http://users.fulladsl.be/spb1667/cultural/owen.html

    I'll get back into GB's wonderful poetry images tomorrow. Today is a...Memorial Day for me.

    Alliemae
    May 30, 2006 - 05:36 am
    Re: 90-minute PBS-TV live Memorial Day concert on TV

    Yes, watching the concert is one of my personal traditions for Memorial Day also and I agree that this year was 'particularly moving'.

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    May 30, 2006 - 02:03 pm
    old tennis player

    Refuses
    To refuse the racket, to mutter No to the net.
    He leans to life, conspires to give and get
    Other serving yet.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    This poem says it all for me. I guess in some ways we're all waiting for the other to serve. And I do love those lines "conspires to give and get."

    hats
    May 31, 2006 - 02:23 am
    Scrawler,

    I love that one. I have never seen that particular poem. Thanks.

    annafair
    May 31, 2006 - 03:33 am
    I have missed being here for a few days SEEMS like years but I have been without air conditioning and I hate to complain but in Virginia summer time is the hot and humid and if one cant escape in aircondtioning you suffer. We have a program here for those who dont have A/C the poor, the infirm , the homeless. fans are provided and air conditioned shelter when it is really miserable.

    I could have used some but my family was coming They arrived last evening and thank goodness I was able to get someone to come and for the present service my air condtioner so the house is comfortable My air condtioner is 20 years old and has to be replaced The company tells me they can do it in a day..Since I intend to stick around for another ten years at least I am glad to get a new A/C so summers will be cool And my bank is kind enough to loan me the money LOL so I am helping to keep people employed and a company in business! Have to look at the positive side.

    Back to all the posts WOW I have sat here and wept because from allimae's poems by her father to her own , to the wonderful poems by our POET of the month to my memories of reading about Jane Addams and Hull house years ago to all the thoughtful comments by the best group on SN I feel so privelged and grateful to part of this discussion. It feeds my soul to read and discuss poetry, poets and the personal expierences shared here .

    Since I have my niece , her husband and Carter ( 4year old boy) and Bailey (18 month old girl) and 14 members of my family over for dinner tonight I cant be here today I have ready my first post for our June poet and will try to post it after everyone leaves and my guests are asleep.

    Each month I feel can the next poet be as good as the last? In their own way they are ..but gee I miss each one as we say a reluctant goodbye ..How can I really say what my heart feels ? I can see we have all grown in understanding the world of our poets. For myself I feel richer in heart and spirit for reading and sharing the poems and appreciation for each poet's view of the world and for each of you I am sending you a collective hug.

    Please remember this is a poetry discussion By that I mean we are NOT LIMITED to the poet of the month..Each poem shared by any poet only enriches our understanding of not only poetry but life itself, So dont hesitate ..as the man who sends out from the Poetry Society of Virginia a newsletter each month says KEEP THOSE POEMS COMING POETRY IS LOVE POETRY IS LIFE HOORAH..love you all anna

    Scrawler
    May 31, 2006 - 11:05 am
    Old people working. Making a gift of garden.
    Or washing a car, so some one else may ride.
    A note of alliance, an eloquence of pride.
    A way of greeting or sally to the world.

    ~ Gwendolyn Brooks

    This poem reminds me of the "Greeters" you find in Wall-mart or Target. They don't seem old to me and it is nice to hear "Good morning" when you arrive at such a store. The stores themselves tend to overwhelm me. Than I'm a recluse and rarely get out. I prefer to have my "things" ordered on line and delivered by nice young "UPS" folks.

    Now on to Pablo Neruda. His book just arrived and it might take me years to finish it; it's so big.

    MarjV
    May 31, 2006 - 12:08 pm
    Those 2 short GB poems you posted are most remarkable, Scrawler. Neither one was in my books. thanks.

    Alliemae
    June 1, 2006 - 05:36 am
    I find it really interesting that Pablo Neruda had his first work published at age 13...the same age as Gwendolyn Brooks, our last month's poet.

    This was the first of Neruda's that I read:

    Bird

    It was passed from one bird to another,
    the whole gift of the day.
    The day went from flute to flute,
    went dressed in vegetation,
    in flights which opened a tunnel
    through the wind would pass
    to where birds were breaking open
    the dense blue air -
    and there, night came in.

    When I returned from so many journeys,
    I stayed suspended and green
    between sun and geography -
    I saw how wings worked,
    how perfumes are transmitted
    by feathery telegraph,
    and from above I saw the path,
    the springs and the roof tiles,
    the fishermen at their trades,
    the trousers of the foam;
    I saw it all from my green sky.
    I had no more alphabet
    than the swallows in their courses,
    the tiny, shining water
    of the small bird on fire
    which dances out of the pollen.


    How happy I am that we are reading yet another poet who pays attention to the delightfully small, but deep, details of nature.

    I think I have been missing Mary Oliver.

    I've read a few of Neruda's poems now and I know I'm going to enjoy this month.

    Alliemae





    Alliemae

    hats
    June 1, 2006 - 05:43 am
    Alliemae, isn't that a coincidence?

    I am very excited about our trip to Chile.

    Alliemae
    June 1, 2006 - 05:52 am
    Oh Hats...so am I!! And I love their music too...

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 1, 2006 - 06:00 am
    Really?? I haven't heard their music. Maybe we will get a chance to hear some Chilean music during the discussion. Anna is inspired in her choices of poets each month. This place is such a joy.

    annafair
    June 1, 2006 - 07:01 am
    I have in in edit and as soon as I finish my comments here will post it ..Poets inspire me ..I have never read a poet I didnt like ..in some way ..My family just left a few minutes ago .. It was a brief visit but with the A/C only cooling the house to 75 it was almost TOO long ..Still being together with family is such special gift < My niece says she would like to return next year and hopefully her mother will come along. It has been 10 years since I have seen them Now back to the post written in my word processor today. anna

    The poem I chose to open our discussion has a special appeal to me. First in the summers of my childhood my mother would make lemonade in a huge glass pitcher cooled with ice chipped from the block of ice in a wooden ice box. No pretend lemons but real ones cut and squeezed by hand , sugar added , stirred with long wooden spoon I can see it now, the cool moisture on the outside of that pitcher, the first glass poured , the taste in my mouth as that miniscule sweet sour taste moved down my throat. Suddenly the room felt cooler and so did I.

    A Lemon




    Out of lemon flowers
    loosed
    on the moonlight, love's
    lashed and insatiable
    essences,
    sodden with fragrance,
    the lemon tree's yellow
    emerges,
    the lemons
    move down
    from the tree's planetarium


    Delicate merchandise!
    The harbors are big with it-
    bazaars
    for the light and the
    barbarous gold.
    We open
    the halves
    of a miracle,
    and a clotting of acids
    brims
    into the starry
    divisions:
    creation's
    original juices,
    irreducible, changeless,
    alive:
    so the freshness lives on
    in a lemon,
    in the sweet-smelling house of the rind,
    the proportions, arcane and acerb.


    Cutting the lemon
    the knife
    leaves a little cathedral:
    alcoves unguessed by the eye
    that open acidulous glass
    to the light; topazes
    riding the droplets,
    altars,
    aromatic facades.


    So, while the hand
    holds the cut of the lemon,
    half a world
    on a trencher,
    the gold of the universe
    wells
    to your touch:
    a cup yellow
    with miracles,
    a breast and a nipple
    perfuming the earth;
    a flashing made fruitage,
    the diminutive fire of a planet.


    Pablo Neruda


    everything about this poem , every word reminds me how simple and lovely the world can be. Years later my husband added a green house to our garage as a gift for me and among the things grown there was a small lemon tree. In summer it grew in a pot outdoors and brought in come fall. I was surprised to find that first year perhaps by February the tree had sweet blossoms and by the time spring arrived I had lemons, real lemons.. Like Neruda I too saw a miracle ,”the diminutive fire of a planet” the universe in microcosm ..Like Neruda I love to cut open a lemon , it never fails to please me,. I add the juice to my glass of water ,no sugar , just that tart acid taste. Now that summer has arrived like my mother before me I cut the lemons and squeeze their juice into a small glass and add it to pitcher and make real lemonade. I use a plastic pitcher but I think I may go out today and buy a glass one ,.to see the beads of moisture appear on its surface and slowly form into miniature rivulets and run down the cool glass.

    MarjV
    June 1, 2006 - 09:03 am
    Comment on "Lemon". Love how he says the freshness of creation lives on in the lemon.

    Tried to pick a line from "Bird" but they are all so beautiful. I'll say I pick the first line.

    It was passed from one bird to another,
    the whole gift of the day.
    . Amazing - who'd think to describe that way !

    These poems could each use a separate whole day to comment since on rereading a new spark is lit.

    annafair
    June 1, 2006 - 09:20 am
    You are so right .".It was passed from one bird to another, the whole gift of the day. . Amazing - who'd think to describe that way ! " I feel that way about his poems ..each line evokes a new thought, paints a new picture and opens the windows in my mind..

    I no longer know what poem of his was the first one I just know I am doing here what I have wanted to do for a long time ..To share with friends what a poems means ..not just to my outer self but to that "me" that lives inside my soul.

    Each month has been so great I feel like I have dined on a banquet of words and thoughts .. anna

    Scrawler
    June 1, 2006 - 10:15 am
    Birds! Bah! Humbug! For a few months now I've been fighting "molting" birds in my patios. I sweep and sweep and still their feathery things are everywhere causing my alergies to act up. But yes, I do love the bird poem and the others, but what I really wish is for the birds to stop molting and my cat to stop sheding so my nose will stop running!

    Mankind:

    Here I found love. It was born in the sand,
    it grew without voice, touched the flintstones
    of hardness, and resisted death
    Here mankind was life that joined
    the intact light, the surviving sea,
    and attacked and sang and fought
    with the same unity of metals.
    Here cemeteries were nothing but
    turned soil, dissolved sticks
    of broken crosses over which
    the sandy winds advanced.

    Translated by: Jack Schmitt

    ~ Pablo Neruda

    I think here Neruda is simply saying that mankind is really only a part of the vastness of the universe. We are really nothing special. We are born, we live, and than we die.

    MarjV
    June 1, 2006 - 10:59 am
    "For you are dust, and to dust you shall return." This poem reminds me of this verse in Genesis on reading the first time.

    I see him saying we are part of the whole - all in the universe, a oneness as Scrawler says above. We have joined with everything Neruda says in the middle of the poem.

    Marj

    MarjV
    June 1, 2006 - 11:02 am
    Neruda's 1971 Nobel Prize Lecture

    I have not read it totally as yet but you will see his love and observation of all arouond him.

    hats
    June 1, 2006 - 11:59 am
    MarjV,

    Thank you for the link. All of the poems are so lovely so far. I love the poem about "Lemons." I happen to love lemonade, lemon meringue pie, the squeeze of a lemon, the smell of a lemon. If I could paint, I would definitely use a lemon in a still life.

    Anna,

    Have you ever written a poem about lemons or some other fruit or vegetable?

    Scrawler,

    Your poem is beautiful too. The poem flows beautifully.

    hats
    June 1, 2006 - 12:02 pm
    I have started reading Pablo Neruda's speech. His prose is as beautiful as his poetry.

    hats
    June 1, 2006 - 01:01 pm
    Clenched Soul


    I have seen from my window
    the fiesta of sunset in the distant mountain tops.


    Sometimes a piece of sun
    burned like a coin in my hand.


    Pablo Neruda

    This is how I feel Chile must look and feel like.

    MarjV
    June 1, 2006 - 01:18 pm
    ooooooooooo- "Clenched soul" - isn't that neat - " a fiesta of sunset". I hope I remember that at my next sunset watching.

    MarjV
    June 1, 2006 - 02:40 pm

    hats
    June 2, 2006 - 04:40 am
    MarjV, that's a good idea.

    Scrawler
    June 2, 2006 - 11:26 am
    Trivia: Pablo Neruda was cited in "The Simpsons" episode "Bart Sells His Soul." Lisa: Hmm. Pablo Neruda said, "Laughter is the language of the soul. Bart: I am familiar with teh works of Pablo Neruda.

    "The Sea and the Bells," an album by Rachel's released in 1996 derived its title from that of the book by Neruda.

    Neruda always wrote in green ink because it was the color of Esperanza (hope!)

    "Neruda was vocal on political issues, vigorously denoucing the U.S. during the "Cuban missile crisis (later in the decade he would likewise repeatedly condemn the U.S. for the "Vietnam War").

    America, I do not invoke your name in vain:

    America, I do not invoke your name in vain.
    When I hold the sword to my heart,
    when I endure the leaks in my soul,
    when your new day
    penetrates me through the windows,
    I'm of and I'm in the light that produces me,
    I live in the shade that determines me.
    I sleep and rise in your essential dawn,
    sweet as grapes and terrible,
    conductor of sugar and punishment,
    soaked in the sperm of your species,
    nursed on the blood of your legacy.

    ~ translated by Jack Schmitt

    Pablo Neruda

    I think we could have understood each other in regard to Vietnam, but I'm not sure about the Cubian Missile Crisis. I can't help but wonder what he may have thought about the Iraq war. "He was one of the most prestigious and outspoken leftwing intellectuals alive and attracted opposition from ideological opponents such as the Congress for Cultural Freedom, an anti-communist organization funded by the U.S. CIA and who Neruda was one of their primary targets." I think it is good that we now hear the other side of the story, especially through the eyes of a poet.

    MarjV
    June 2, 2006 - 12:26 pm
    I think it would be good to post the date of the poem/book. Gives an idea of where they are in their writing and maturity.

    I just picked up a book from the lib - and this poem caught my eye immediately.

    "El Mismo/The Same" [1969 collection in Five Decades: Poems 1925-1970]

    It costs much to grow old:
    I've fondled the Springs
    like sticks of new furniture with the wood still sweet to the smell, suave
    in the grain, and hidden away in its lockers,
    I've stored my wild honey.

    That's why the bell tolled
    hearing its sound to the dead,
    out of range of my reason:
    one grows used to one's skin,
    the cut of one's nose, one's good looks,
    while summer by summer, the sun
    sinks in its brazier.

    Noting the sea's health,
    its insistence on turbulence,
    I kept skimming the beaches:
    now seated on waves
    I kept the bitter green smell
    of a lifetime's apprenticeship
    to live on in the whole of my motion.


    - - - - -

    One of the things he is telling us, I think, is how coming to an older physical age brings memories with it of honeys tasted. And life continues with thosoe tastes and smells as part of who you are. THere is a turbulence, irregularity, & wildness in life but one is to continue on.

    He used 'green' in the last verse. And as Anne/Scrawler writes above, he used green ink because green is the color of hope. Thus the green smell would be from a lifetime of hope.

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 02:22 am
    MarjV and Scrawler, I like both the poems you have chosen. With Scrawler's poem I think Pablo Neruda's feeling are sincere. He isn't writing just some patriotic drivel. I see feelings of love and hate for America's choices. The honesty in the poem is what I like best.

    I sleep and rise in your essential dawn,
    sweet as grapes and terrible,
    conductor of sugar and punishment,


    In MarjV's Pablo Neruda poem I felt immediately what it's like to grow older. I see a feeling of love and hate here too. My youth is gone, never to return again. Still, in mind storage are my memories. There is power in memory. I can become like the roaring sea, going on and on through every stormy change. It's just a new process of hope colored in green.

    It costs much to grow old:
    I've fondled the Springs
    like sticks of new furniture with the wood still sweet to the smell, suave
    in the grain, and hidden away in its lockers,
    I've stored my wild honey.

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 02:56 am
    This poem is in the header. I would like to read the other two parts. I might need to look closely in my books, on the net or maybe someone here has seen the other two parts.

    from The Book of Questions


    III.


    Tell me, is the rose naked
    or is that her only dress?


    Why do trees conceal
    the splendor of their roots?


    Who hears the regrets
    of the thieving automobile?


    Is there anything in the world sadder
    than a train standing in the rain?


    Pablo Neruda


    I love the question about the rose. That line caught my attention. I believe growing old is easier if I can hold on to a childlike attitude. Children are so fresh and new. Their thoughts and questions make me gasp, laugh, and think. Children are full of wonder. I don't want to lose the ability to wonder. Somedays I feel sad, maybe lonely, useless. Those are the days I have slipped out of my Peter Pan suit. I am only dressed as an adult. Then, I can't see the blue sky, the shapes of clouds or the colors in a rainbow. When I get like that again, I hope someone will remind me that there are more wonderful questions to ask. I am not looking for pat answers. That's the adults world. All I want is questions, keep me guessing.

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 03:14 am
    Nothing, Only the Sea


    The sea
    calls me back to life
    a resurrection-
    I paint
    no face
    no seashell
    Paint
    nothingness in
    blues
    whites and
    beige
    Neutral Beauty.
    invisible
    watching from afar
    the cottages
    break away
    like waves

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 03:15 am
    There is so much I don't know. I am trying, going with the flow. I really don't know about punctuation in poems.

    MarjV
    June 3, 2006 - 05:41 am
    The Book of Questions

    "The Book of Questions" is a remarkable literary work which transcends genre. The book consists, very simply, of a series of rhetorical questions divided up among 74 untitled poems (each poem contains from 3 to 6 questions). In this bilingual volume, Pablo Neruda's Spanish text is accompanied on each page by William O'Daly's crisp English translation

    So, Hats, you need to get the whole book for the rest of the poems. Wouldn't that be fun to read !

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 05:44 am
    Yes! MarjV, my library doesn't have it. I am going to look around for it. Does your library own it?

    MarjV
    June 3, 2006 - 05:46 am
    Love those questions in the poem you posted by Neruda. My mind can just go on and on contemplating those rhetorical questions !

    And congratulations on writing your poem and the courage to post it.

    "The sea calls me back to life
    a resurrection.". I like that line so much. Think of all the cultures and religions where water is a rebirth, a cleansing. I like your idea of the cottages disappearing in the waves. I've seen that thought from being in a sailboat back y ears ago when I sailed.

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 06:06 am
    MarjV, did you sail? Now we will have to talk. I would like to hear about your sailing adventures. My father loved to go deep sea fishing. Many times I went with him. I will never forget the first time I experienced seasickness. Unforgettable.

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 06:09 am
    Talking about courage, age gives me courage. In my younger years, I was terribly shy. All of my shyness as not disappeared. (:

    MarjV
    June 3, 2006 - 09:28 am
    Assessment. Neruda's body of poetry is so rich and varied that it defies classification or easy summary. It developed along four main directions, however. His love poetry, such as the youthful Twenty Love Poems and the mature Los versos del Capitán (1952; The Captain's Verses), is tender, melancholy, sensuous, and passionate. In "material" poetry, such as Residencia en la tierra, loneliness and depression immerse the author in a subterranean world of dark, demonic forces. His epic poetry is best represented by Canto general, which is a Whitmanesque attempt at reinterpreting the past and present of Latin America and the struggle of its oppressed and downtrodden masses toward freedom. And finally there is Neruda's poetry of common, everyday objects, animals, and plants, as in Odas elementales.

    These four trends correspond to four aspects of Neruda's personality: his passionate love life; the nightmares and depression he experienced while serving as a consul in Asia; his commitment to a political cause; and his ever-present attention to details of daily life, his love of things made or grown by human hands. Many of his other books, such as Libro de las preguntas (1974; "Book of Questions"), reflect philosophical and whimsical questions about the present and future of humanity. Neruda was one of the most original and prolific poets to write in Spanish in the 20th century, but, despite the variety of his output as a whole, each of his books has unity of style and purpose.

    This article was written by Manuel E. Duran, who is Professor of Hispanic Literature at Yale University

    A very readable bio:

    Brittanica.com bio of Neruda

    Scrawler
    June 3, 2006 - 10:15 am
    from Canto General (1938-1949):

    Orinoco

    Orinoco, on your banks
    of that timeless hour,
    let me as then go naked
    let me enter your baptismal darkness.
    Scarlet-colored Orinoco,
    let me immerse my hands that return
    to your maternity, to your flux
    river of races, land of roots
    your spacious murmur, your untamed sheet
    come whence I come, from the poor
    and imperious wilds, from a secret
    like blood, from a silent
    mother of clay.

    ~ translated by Jack Schmitt

    ~Pablo Neruda

    Can't you feel both the passion and power in his words. But than there is also just a dash of gentleness like a spice you would add to your food to bring out the flavor.

    annafair
    June 3, 2006 - 10:51 am
    Of Neruda's poems ..before I write further I want to say HATS YOU ARE ALREADY A POET you dont have to try YOU ARE Many of your posts are lyrical and poetic I am not sure what prose poems are but without further explanation I would say that is what you write....in your everyday wonderful voice ..and "Neruda's body of poetry is so rich and varied it defies classification or easy summary" WOW am I finding that true.

    Between storms that precluded by being on the computer ,the hours spent with the air conditioner man to get my a/c working enough to make life tolerable until a new complete unit can be installed on TUES ..I have just sat and read from my HUGE book of Neruda's poems. I have loved poetry for years,But until I was inspired to offer these month long discussions I never knew how much I loved poetry. I am steeping myself in the words of our poets, drinking it in, inhaling it,breathing it and in Neruda's I am finding another poet who just knocks my socks off .which is why I chose this one for today and it wasnt easy to narrow it down to one..thank goodness we still have 27 days to go! here is the poem I chose for today,.anna

    ODE TO A PAIR OF SOCKS


    Translated by Mark Strand


    Maru Mota brought me
    a pair
    of socks
    that she knitted with her
    shepherdess hands ,
    two socks soft
    as rabbits.
    I put my feet
    into them
    as into
    two
    cases
    knitted
    with threads of
    twilight
    and sheeps wool.


    Wild socks ,
    my feet were
    two wool
    fish,
    two big sharks
    of ultramarine
    crossed
    by a golden braid.
    two giant blackbirds,
    two cannons:
    my feet
    were honored
    in this way
    by these
    heavenly
    socks.
    They were
    so beautiful
    that for the first time
    my feet seemed to me
    unacceptable
    like two decrepit
    firemen, firemen
    unworthy
    of that
    embroidered
    fire,
    of those shining
    socks.


    Anyway
    I resisted
    the sharp temptation
    to save them
    the way schoolboys
    keep
    lightening bugs
    the way scholars
    collect books,
    I resisted
    the mad impulse
    to put them
    in a golden
    cage
    and each day
    to feed them birdseed
    and the meat of a rosy melon.
    Like explorers
    in the forest
    who give up the finest
    young deer
    to the roaring spit
    and eat it
    with regret,
    I stretched out
    my feet
    and put on
    the
    lovely
    socks
    and then
    my shoes.


    And this is
    the moral of my ode:
    beauty is twice
    beautiful
    and goodness is doubly
    good
    when
    it concerns two wool
    socks
    in winter.


    Pablo Neruda How can I say why I loved this poem ? because it speaks to me about the beauty of a simple hand made, lovingly gifts Not expensive, not costly by the world's standards but priceless by love's..

    MarjV
    June 3, 2006 - 11:05 am
    That sock poem must be from his books of Elemental Odes. They are so stunning in their simplicity and authenticity.

    I loved that sock poem. My toes are doing a wiggle.

    "Orinoco" poem reminds me of the ones Heaney wrote about his river. A definite connection with it's flow.

    annafair
    June 3, 2006 - 11:17 am
    Before I had to leave my computer until hopefully later in the day I just had to come here and see if anyone had posted and YOU Did and "My toes are doing a wiggle" and isnt that the truth ...reading his poems I feel my whole sprit rejoicing...anna

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 12:33 pm
    You are always sooooo kind. It's fun sharing this space with you. Now I have to go back and read the poetry posts.

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 12:37 pm
    Anna,

    I love it! I would have to say this is my favorite Neruda poem so far. I don't think this one is in my book. I will just have to make time to really drink in his poems tonight. This one is just sooo perfect.

    Alliemae
    June 3, 2006 - 01:45 pm
    ...what a perfect description/analysis, Scrawler, of the poem Canto General: Orinoco:.

    There is something about the way Neruda expresses Earth and Person of the Earth...a connection vivid and true.

    I am both touched and at times overwhelmed by the way Neruda connects with nature...not as simply an appreciator but as an integral part of it.

    I also love Neruda's lyrical simplicity as in ODE TO A PAIR OF SOCKS when he says:

    as into
    two
    cases
    knitted
    with threads of
    twilight
    and sheeps wool.


    Thanks, annafair, for today's poem!

    Now I must go backward and see what else I may have missed!

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 3, 2006 - 02:06 pm
    Dear, dear Hats...your poem is exquisite...and with a stroke of true genius at the end when you say,

    "watching from afar
    the cottages
    break away
    like waves


    as you broke me out of my mold that only knows that 'waves' break away..."the cottages break away like waves..."

    This is poetry! You are a poet.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 3, 2006 - 02:19 pm
    to all of you and all you bring into the discussion that is not just the poems. If not for this group I may read the poems but would miss the wonderful explanations, book recos and MarjV, I can't wait to learn more of the span of Neruda's poetry...thanks for that link!

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 3, 2006 - 02:20 pm
    Alliemae,

    If I am a poet, you are a poet. I think all of us are becoming new persons with poetic spirits after our experiences here at the Poetry Corner. Thank you for the compliment.

    JoanK
    June 3, 2006 - 05:36 pm
    HATS: that was wonderful. You are indeed a poet. I hope you go on and do more.

    And my toes are wiggling with you!!

    Jim in Jeff
    June 3, 2006 - 06:07 pm
    First...I am glad that we here have so far left "Chile's volatile 20th century politics" to the "Issues" folks in Seniornet to discuss. Here we are more into word-images that inspire us to think outside-the-box. And Pablo Neruda is an acknowledged multi-faceted poet.

    Second...I'm taken with Hats' sea poem. We here will have to work in a long discussion of "sea poems" in general, sometime soon.

    Third...I am equally taken with all the quality posts here this week. As usual, you are all erudite; and also both passionate and compassionate. IOW, this is the lovliest SN corner!

    Subject: Neruda's "100 Love Sonnets," 1959.

    These are 100 14-line sonnets directly to his wife. A more passionate gift from a man to his woman...I can't imagine.

    To us readers (over his shoulder, so to speak), these can seem sensual...even erotic. It helped me to know these are a work of love to his woman. None are "smut," natch. Really lovely poetry...every one!

    The 1986 pbk prints his Spanish verse on left page, and on right page an English translation by Stephen Tapscott (a good job, IMHO). The sonnets are in four groups: "Morning"; "Afternoon"; "Evening"; and "Night." (Kinda takes care of the whole day with his Lady.)

    Today, instead of choosing one of these hundred poems to share here, I'm going to cite his, to me, lovely book "intro":

    TO MATILDE URRUTIA

    My beloved wife, I suffered while I was writing these misnamed "sonnets"; they hurt me and caused me grief, but the happiness I feel in offering them to you is vast as a savanna. When I set this task for myself, I knew very well that down the right sides of sonnets, with elegant discriminating taste, poets of all times have arranged rhymes that sound like silver, or crystal, or cannonfire. But--with great humility--I made these sonnets out of wood; I gave them the sound of that opaque pure substance, and that is how they should reach your ears. Walking in forests or on beaches, along hidden lakes, in latitudes sprinkled with ashes, you and I have picked up pieces of pure bark, pieces of wood subject to the comings and goings of water and the weather. Out of such softened relics, then, with hatchet and machete and pocketknife, I built up these lumber piles of love, and with fourteen boards each I built little houses, so that your eyes, which I adore and sing to, might live in them. Now that I have declared the foundations of my love, I surrender this century to you: wooden sonnets that rise only because you gave them life. --Pablo Neruda, October 1959.

    Isn't that...just lovely? It's a long paragraph, exactly as he wanted it on "dedication page" of his book. I've not had the heart to break it up into more-readible paragraphs. I hope you too will enjoy the poetry within his above prose. I'll post some of his love sonnets here soon.

    JoanK
    June 3, 2006 - 06:27 pm
    That's amazing!!

    annafair
    June 3, 2006 - 07:43 pm
    I have those in my book and every word this man speaks shows him in such clarity and I feel there is a sense of humility in his poems At least the ones I have read thus far. An appreciation of the unique world he inhabits ..his feel for small things just blows my mind..how few people feel that way ?

    I have sat here this evening absorbing his poetry..I have none to offer this moment because the ones I have read I feel like I should bundle them all and send them to each of you.

    What is the word young people use to describe something unique and special ? Ah I think it is AWESOME ..Thus far that is the word I would use . HE IS AWESOME...anna

    annafair
    June 4, 2006 - 12:53 am
    I came in to post a poem but felt what I really wanted to do was re-read all the posts for this month..I bathed in the words you have shared Not only the poems but the comments ..they flow over me like warm water ..and all the turblence of the past few weeks just floated away...the comments are as poetic as the poems and HATS if you have any doubts as to whether you are a poet let them go and keep writing ..one of my professors always told us FIND YOUR OWN VOICE..and that is what you have done. Found your poetic voice Please keep it alive and Hats is right you too Alliemae and of course Scrawler, MarjV, Jim in Jef, JoanK and even the once in awhile posters your words are not just words on a page but as lovely as any poem we post..It is nearly 4am and this is the place I turn to when I cant sleep, when my mind and heart needs nourishment and I thank you all for feeding my soul..I reach through space and hug each one....anna

    annafair
    June 4, 2006 - 01:38 am
    CANTO GENERAL 1938-1949

    I RECALL THE SEA
    translated by Jack Schmitt
    Chilean, have you gone to the sea lately?
    Go in my name, wet your hands and raise them
    and from other lands I'll adore the drops
    that fall on your face from the infinite water.
    I know, I've lived all my sea coast,
    the heavy sea of the North; of the barrens, to
    the tempestuous weight of foam in the islands.
    I recall the sea, the pocked iron coasts
    of Coquimbo, the imperious waters of Tralca,
    the solitary waves of the South, that formed me.
    I recall in Puerto Mount or in the islands , at night,
    of returning along the beach, the boat waiting,
    and our feet left fire in their tracks,
    the mysterious flames of a phosphororescent god.
    Each footstep was a streak of phosphorus
    We were writing the earth with stars.
    And the boat, skimming the sea, shook
    a branch of marine fire, of glowworms
    and innumerable wave of eyes that awakened
    once and slept again in their abyss.


    Pablo Neruda

    We were writing the earth with stars

    any sea poems remind me of the two weeks each summer we spent in the outer banks of NC the house we rented was across from the Atlantic We never needed a clock there since our days were measured by the sea and the sun and moon, Without an alarm I would wake just as daylight pierced the night and the whole family would awake and go down to watch the sun rise later the children would join their friends and swim and before we would finally end the day we would go down again ..and watch the moon lay a path across the sea.

    Welcome to the Coquimbo region

    hats
    June 4, 2006 - 01:58 am
    Jim in Jeff,

    How beautifully romantic! It's rare to see or hear such words like that today. I am anxious to read some of the Love Sonnets by Pablo Neruda you will post. Thank you for bringing our attention to these sonnets. How loved and appreciated his wife must have felt.

    hats
    June 4, 2006 - 06:56 am
    Ode to the Piano


    by Pablo Neruda, translated by Jodey Bateman


    The piano was sad
    during the concert,
    forgotten in its gravedigger's coat,
    and then it opened its mouth,
    its whale's mouth:
    the pianist entered the piano
    flying like a crow;
    something happened as if a stone
    of silver fell
    or a hand
    into a hidden
    pond:
    the sweetness slid
    like rain
    over a bell,
    the light fell to the bottom
    of a locked house,
    an emerald went across the abyss
    and the sea sounded,
    the night,
    the meadows,
    the dewdrop,
    the deepest thunder,
    the structure of the rose sang,
    the milk of dawn surrounded the silence.


    That's how the music was born
    from the piano which was dying,
    the garment
    of the water-nymph
    moved up over the coffin
    and from its set of teeth
    all unaware
    the piano, the pianist
    and the concert fell,
    and everything became sound,
    an elemental torrent,
    a pure system, a clear bell ringing.


    Then the man returned
    from the tree of music.
    He flew down like
    a lost crow
    or a crazy knight:
    the piano closed its whale's mouth
    and the pianist walked back from it
    towards the silence.


    I have always loved piano music. I would love to learn to play one. My grandmother took up piano playing in her early eighties. That means it's a goal that might come true for me. First, I have to own a piano.

    This poem makes me want to celebrate those who bring life to the piano's keys. I love to watch a pianist's fingers fly over the keys with such skill. It's magical. I remember Peter Nero, Ray Charles, Teichner and Ferrante(I am sure there name is spelled wrong). Who can forget Liberace? The classical composers too have brought the piano to life and make us sit back and dream.

    Alliemae
    June 4, 2006 - 08:25 am
    "Chilean, have you gone to the sea lately?
    Go in my name, wet your hands and raise them"


    All my life I had wanted to visit Istanbul, Turkey and touch the waters of the Bosphorus. Finally, in 1986 I made my first trip. A friend had taken me to a famous yogurt spot whose outdoor seats were just feet from the Bosphorus. I was afraid I might slip and I was weeping, I wanted so to live my promise to myself and touch the waters of the Bosphorus.

    My dear friend walked the few steps to the Bosphorus, cupped his hands...and brought the water to me saying, "You cannot go to the Bosphorus so...the Bosphorus comes to you!"

    It was for me a very spiritual act of love which I will never, ever forget.

    Water, seas, and intimacy...they do go together at times, in a very cherished way. I loved I RECALL THE SEA...it reminded me of so many things in my life--fishing off the breakwater in Rockland, ME, with my dad every year, going to the Delaware (albeit a river) with gear in hand while my four kids were in school, for a few hours respite from homemaking and child-rearing, searching for shells and driftwood at Lincolnville beach and sharing our clams and fries with the seagulls.

    I anxiously await our month of sea poetry...thank you anna for bringing this poem and thank you Jim for inspiring its bringing...

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 4, 2006 - 08:37 am
    I will read this poem again and again to remind myself that if we are able to enjoy--no, savor--words like these, put together like this, then inside of our core must lie a poet just waiting to come out. We couldn't appreciate this poet as we all seem to be enjoying him if we, too, were not capable of finding that wonder, that amazement, that tender beauty inside of us.

    Maybe more quiet and stillness--and 'just noticing' is in order.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 4, 2006 - 09:45 am
    I am so happy to know there is at least one of Neruda's books in Spanish with the English right along side of it.

    The first thing I thought after reading a poem or two of his was how much I would like to refresh my Spanish by trying to read Neruda in Spanish...now I'll be able to see how well I do.

    Jim, the dedication to his wife is so loving and lovely...thanks for sharing that...

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    June 4, 2006 - 10:20 am
    The Rivers Come Forth:

    Lover of the rivers, assailed
    by blue water and transparent drops,
    like a veined tree your specter
    of a dark goddess that eats apples:
    when you awakened, naked,
    you were tattooed by the rivers,
    and in the wet heights your head
    filled the world with fresh dew.
    Water trembled on your waist.
    You were shaped by fountainheads
    and lakes glistened on your brow.
    From your maternal density you gathered
    the water like vital tears,
    dredged the sandy riverbeds
    through the planetary night,
    traversing harsh dilated stones,
    shattering on your way
    all the salt of geology,
    cutting forests of compact walls,
    sundering the quartz's muscles.

    translated by Jack Schmitt

    ~ Poetry of Pablo Neruda

    Can't you feel the passion and the power in these poems, not only of the poet but also of what he writes about. I too enjoyed the "Ode" poems.

    annafair
    June 4, 2006 - 11:45 am
    Even when I have no poem to share at this moment I am SO MOVED by the poems by the effect on ourselves How words written by someone we never knew who speaks of places we have never been who still touches us in our deepest being ..Each poem shared and each comment has marked me ..to just say they touch me is not enough THEY HAVE MARKED ME and it is a permanent thing like a birthmark that never goes away and while in the beginning it may set you apart in the end you know how special it made you.

    Alliemae your sharing was so real I was with you there and I will NEVER forget either ..and my book which is The Poetry of Pablo Neruda edited and with an introduction by ILAN STAVANS fron Barnes and Nobles does have many of his poems in Spanish next to the translation I havent tried to read them in the Spanish yet but will even though my Spanish lessons were over 60 years ago ..

    and all of the comments are ones I shake my head in amazement and say YES YES that is exactly how I feel

    I understood the poem about the piano all of my children had lessons but only one was truly musical and after she married I gave her our piano. My mother gave me violin lessons but it was the piano I yearned to play so I took lessons when our first child had her lessons I never really conquered the piano but had a wonderful expierence never the less to be able to place my fingers on those keys and make music! Hats the pianists you remembered I did too and loved them each ..plus others whose names elude me but then it was MUSIC I loved period.. anna

    hats
    June 4, 2006 - 02:29 pm
    Scrawler,

    I do feel the passion. "The Rivers Come Forth" seems almost sensual. I can just feel the drops of water. I think earlier Anna posted a Langston Hughes poem about rivers. With Pablo Neruda's I feel as though the dew is dropping on me from the trees in a tropical forest.

    you were tattooed by the rivers,
    and in the wet heights your head
    filled the world with fresh dew.


    Pablo Neruda awakens our senses through the power of water. We experience an awakening, an emotional awakening.

    hats
    June 4, 2006 - 02:33 pm
    Anna,

    I can't stay away either. I am becoming dew soaked by the beauty of Pablo Neruda's poems. Thank you MarjV, Scrawler, Jim and Alliemae. These poems and comments are wonderful, fantastic.

    hats
    June 4, 2006 - 02:47 pm
    Pablo Neruda - I Like For You To Be Still


    I like for you to be still
    It is as though you are absent
    And you hear me from far away
    And my voice does not touch you
    It seems as though your eyes had flown away
    And it seems that a kiss had sealed your mouth
    As all things are filled with my soul
    You emerge from the things
    Filled with my soul
    You are like my soul
    A butterfly of dream
    And you are like the word: Melancholy


    I like for you to be still
    And you seem far away
    It sounds as though you are lamenting
    A butterfly cooing like a dove
    And you hear me from far away
    And my voice does not reach you
    Let me come to be still in your silence
    And let me talk to you with your silence
    That is bright as a lamp
    Simple, as a ring
    You are like the night
    With its stillness and constellations
    Your silence is that of a star
    As remote and candid


    I like for you to be still
    It is as though you are absent
    Distant and full of sorrow
    So you would've died
    One word then, One smile is enough
    And I'm happy;
    Happy that it's not true


    Sometimes I feel as though my words can not touch the people I love. My words do not carry enough sweet thunder. The soft loudness needed to shake them from physical or emotional pain. Their silence can frighten me. Still, their quietness, their need for space makes me "happy" too. They are just absent in my presence for a small amount of time. My wish is that they would allow me the chance to "to talk with their silence."

    I like for you to be still
    It is as though you are absent
    Distant and full of sorrow
    So you would've died
    One word then, One smile is enough
    And I'm happy;
    Happy that it's not true

    hats
    June 4, 2006 - 02:53 pm
    Hi JoanK, I am glad you are here too.

    MarjV
    June 4, 2006 - 03:37 pm
    "The Canto General, thought by many of Neruda's most prominent critics to be the poet's masterpiece, is the stunning epic of an entire continent and its people. The Canto speaks of the destiny of Latin American peoples and the life of the poet himself. Without question, this is one of the most important and powerful long poems written in the modern period. "

    In the poem today, "The Rivers Come forth", I think you can hear the creation of the country. You can hear the rush of creative waters.

    Jim in Jeff
    June 4, 2006 - 06:30 pm
    Thanks, all, for reading my cite of Neruda's "cover letter" to his gift of 100 14-line love sonnets to Matilde Urrutia, his wife. It is today hard for me to choose and post any ONE sonnet that approaches that dedication page's beauty. And is why I shared it here first.

    However, you good forum folks deserve a random sampling of these love-sonnets. Any ONE of them...is to me just beautiful in its own way. Here's two almost-random samples, just to give some sort of idea:

    Sonnet XVI (from "Morning")

    ....I love the handful of the earth you are.
    Because of its meadows, vast as a planet,
    I have no other star. You are my replica
    of the multiplying universe.

    Your wide eyes are the only light I know
    from extinguished constellations;
    your skin throbs like the streak
    of a meteor through rain.

    Your hips were that much of the moon to me;
    your deep mouth and its delights, that much sun;
    your heart, fiery with its long red rays,

    was that much ardent light, like honey in the shade.
    So I pass across your burning form, kissing
    you--compact and planetary, my dove, my globe.

    Sonnet XXXIV (from "Afternoon")

    ....You are the daughter of the sea, oregano's first cousin.
    Swimmer, your body is pure as the water;
    cook, your blood is quick as the soil.
    Everything you do is full of flowers, rich with the earth.

    Your eyes go out toward the water, and the waves rise;
    your hands go out to the earth, and the seeds swell;
    you know the deep essence of water and the earth,
    conjoined in you like a formula for clay.

    Naiad: cut your body into turquoise pieces,
    they will bloom resurrected in the kitchen.
    This is how you become everything that lives.

    And so, at last, you sleep, in the circle of my arms
    that push back the shadows so that you can rest--
    vegetables, seaweed, herbs: the foam of your dreams.

    Whew! Forum friends, I now need to go take a cold shower. For now, I'll leave to your imagination what some of his steamy "Evening" and "Night" sonnets say to his beloved Lady (and to us reading over his shoulder).

    Jim in Jeff
    June 4, 2006 - 07:02 pm
    Alliemae, if you (like me) have a spattering knowledge of Espanol, I think you (like me) will find these side-by-side translations of Neruda's poetry...a double delight!

    For me it wasn't hard at all...to read the Spanish verse while keeping one eye's right-corner on the line-by-line English translation. As I see it, the translator has the problem of retaining the sense (meaning) of each line...in another language So he/she sometimes has to compromise by losing a bit of the line's original rhythm/meter. And to me, that's OK. I'd rather lose a bit of original rhythm than to lose one bit of the poet's thoughts.

    I am (barely) today able to read the Spanish verse's rhythms (my right eye's corner catching meanings of any unfamiliar-to-me Spanish words). For me...it works...but then, I do know just-a-smidgen of Spanish.

    Often, I find a thought expressed in Spanish more lovely-sounding than the same in English. Just one of many examples: The opening to his "dedication page." It began: "My beloved wife..."; and in Spanish as Neruda wrote it: "Senora mia muy amada...". Much easier...to MY ears anyways. I also like his "te amo" more than "I love you."

    But, thanks to several good translators' work, we readers can often now enjoy his poetry in side-to-side Spanish-English versions.

    Hats, re your earlier question about using punctuation in your poems...Mary Oliver's handbook says that these are employed for REASONS. A period can suggest reader's stopping to think. A comma, to slow a bit. No punctuation...move right along, reader.

    She says this can be from line-to-line, and also from stanza-to-stanza. MO explains use of punctuation much better than this, natch.

    P.S. - I think it's great that Scrawler and I are investigating two of Neruda's different styles. That allows me to focus and report more on, say, his Love Sonnets; and for Anne to tell us more about his epic masterpiece, "Canto General." Works well for me!

    hats
    June 5, 2006 - 01:22 am
    Jim, thank you for that handy hint for poetry writing. I had forgotten about Mary Oliver's Handbook. I will check it out of the library next time.

    I am looking forward to the Love Sonnets. Great.

    hats
    June 5, 2006 - 01:27 am
    Naiad: cut your body into turquoise pieces,
    they will bloom resurrected in the kitchen.
    This is how you become everything that lives.


    Jim, so glad you are sharing the Love Sonnets. All stanzas are breathtaking. I love the above lines. Wow!!

    Did you have a reason for writing your post in red and blue? Is it just a way of making a separation?

    MarjV
    June 5, 2006 - 10:20 am
    While the huge seafoam of Isla Negra,
    the blue salt in the waves splash over you,
    I watch the bee at its work,
    Avid in the honey of its universe."

    This segment of poem was quoted on this webpage written by a person who visited Neruda's home in Chile name Isla Negra. It is a fascinating read.

    A French admirer of Pablo Neruda visits his Isla Negra in Chile

    hats
    June 5, 2006 - 10:54 am
    MarjV, thank you for the link. What a beautiful article. I enjoyed it very much. I will keep it and reread it. The visitor to Pablo Neruda's house writes,

    "Maybe a happy glass-blower blows the waves from under the water so they emerge like large green glass balls. The glass balls swell and swell until they burst. The ocean breathes and, from underneath the sea the glass-blower blows his pipe again and again and invents all the shade of green, of emerald, verdant and translucent as green as glass beads."

    Imagining the sight takes my breath away. The written description is beautiful too.

    Scrawler
    June 5, 2006 - 11:28 am
    Amazon:

    Amazon
    capital of the water's syllables,
    patriarchal father, you're
    the secret eternity
    of fecundation,
    rivers flock to you like birds,
    you're shrouded by fire-colored pistils,
    the great dead trunks impegnate you with perfume,
    the moon can neither watch nor measure you.
    You're changed with green sperm
    like a nuptial tree, silver-plated
    in wild springtime,
    you're reddened by woods,
    blue between the moon of the stones,
    clothed in iron vapor,
    leisurely as an orbiting planet.

    ~ translated by Jack Schmitt

    ~ Pablo Neruda

    Once more I can feel the power of the Amazon and the passion that the poet has for it. I know very little about the Amazon except perhaps those old movies where white hunters are being chased through the forest by the savages. But this gives me a little better view of the Amazon. I wonder do we have such a river here in the United States?

    hats
    June 6, 2006 - 05:00 am
    POETRY


    And it was at that age...Poetry arrived
    in search of me. I don't know, I don't know where
    it came from, from winter or a river.
    I don't know how or when,
    no, they were not voices, they were not
    words, nor silence,
    but from a street I was summoned,
    from the branches of night,
    abruptly from the others,
    among violent fires
    or returning alone,
    there I was without a face
    and it touched me.


    I did not know what to say, my mouth
    had no way
    with names
    my eyes were blind,
    and something started in my soul,
    fever or forgotten wings,
    and I made my own way,
    deciphering
    that fire
    and I wrote the first faint line,
    faint, without substance, pure
    nonsense,
    pure wisdom
    of someone who knows nothing,
    and suddenly I saw
    the heavens
    unfastened
    and open,
    planets,
    palpitating plantations,
    shadow perforated,
    riddled
    with arrows, fire and flowers,
    the winding night, the universe.


    And I, infinitesimal being,
    drunk with the great starry
    void,
    likeness, image of
    mystery,
    I felt myself a pure part
    of the abyss,
    I wheeled with the stars,
    my heart broke loose on the wind.


    Pablo Neruda


    This Pablo Neruda poem is dedicated to all the people here and around the world who can find the bravery to reach out and take a risk today. It takes courage to try any new endeavor.

    MarjV
    June 6, 2006 - 05:15 am
    What a super beauty of a poem that is, Hats. It made my heart beat faster to read of Neruda's "adventure" in memory.

    hats
    June 6, 2006 - 05:16 am
    Scrawler, thank you for a picture painted by Pablo Neruda of the Amazon. What beauty! I think natural beauty is unique to each area of the world.

    This is my favorite line of the poem you have posted.

    "you're shrouded by fire-colored pistils,"

    I can just see the bright colored blooms on the banks of the Amazon or in the forest. Are their Birds of Paradise in Chile? Those blooms are so gorgeous with color.

    MarjV
    June 6, 2006 - 05:42 am
    That poem does Amazon so well. It has always seemed a mysterious river in movies and stories with the Amazon as a setting. You can just hear the parrots squawking or the deep silence.

    hats
    June 6, 2006 - 05:47 am
    Marj, the parrots are so beautiful. I wish we had a photo of one.

    Alliemae
    June 6, 2006 - 07:56 am
    Jim in Jeff Jim, yes, I (like you) have a spattering knowledge of Espanol, and I've found the book on Amazon site for about $10.50 in PB and have read some of the pages and I (like you) have found the 'side-by-side' a double delight as well! (of course these were one after the other on the web page!)

    I find the poems in Espanol hypnotic and hope to master more Spanish so that I can get their full impact as I prefer the flow more. I'm going to see if my local bookstore has the book and if not, I'm going to order it.

    They also have other of his collections in English/Espanol as well...and a book of sea poems, has it been mentioned here?

    Its title is:

    On the Blue Shore of Silence: Poems of the Sea by Pablo Neruda (HARDCOVER) - February 2004).

    I think I'll try to get the English/Spanish versions in any of his books I get.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 6, 2006 - 08:23 am
    Scrawler, I agree with Jim when he says, "P.S. - I think it's great that Scrawler and I are investigating two of Neruda's different styles."

    I know this is true for me as well. Canto General: (1938-1949) is said to be Neruda's quintessential epic poem and shows an entire different side of his talent.

    Hats re: POETRY: these lines, "And it was at that age...Poetry arrived in search of me." were thrilling...I so enjoyed that poem and such lines as "and something started in my soul, fever or forgotten wings,..." and "And I, infinitesimal being, drunk with the great starry void," and "...my heart broke loose on the wind."

    Poetry, and I especially have realized this with Pablo Neruda, fills me with gratitude for writing...not just writing as we know it...but for our first ancestors who picked up a twig or sharp stone and began to record in the simplest manner possible the history and the feelings and impressions of humankind and mind and soul.

    I am feeling quite overwhelmed by this poet and deeply touched that somehow, the Universe has led me to this group...I don't think I'd appreciate these poets anywhere near the same as I do with all of you.

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 6, 2006 - 08:32 am
    In looking for Pablo Neruda's poetry read by himself, I found an NPR site which some of you may not have seen. There is one poem read, not by Neruda but in both English and Spanish and also one of his poems read by Isabelle Allende. If you follow the links, under 'Related NPR Stories' there is a link to Celebrating the Pablo Neruda Centennial.

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 6, 2006 - 08:36 am
    thank you for the link. Your last post is beautiful.

    hats
    June 6, 2006 - 08:39 am
    I think this site is helpful and very pretty too.

    Pablo Neruda

    MarjV
    June 6, 2006 - 10:00 am
    Good one, Hats.

    I'm going to post the "Keeping Quiet" from there. It has a lot to say to us in this busy world.

    Alliemae's link didn't come out as a link ???????

    Here is Alliemame's link -

    Dorfman and Allende reads Neruda poems

    JoanK
    June 6, 2006 - 10:06 am
    Good! I love "Keeping Quiet".

    MarjV
    June 6, 2006 - 10:12 am
    (I decided to break it up since it is so long and it has much to say to us in our modern day hurry-scurry.)

    Keeping Quiet

    Now we will count to twelve
    and we will all keep still.

    This one time upon the earth,
    let's not speak any language,
    let's stop for one second,
    and not move our arms so much.

    It would be a delicious moment,
    without hurry, without locomotives,
    all of us would be together
    in a sudden uneasiness.

    The fishermen in the cold sea
    would do no harm to the whales
    and the peasant gathering salt
    would look at his torn hands.

    - - - - - - --

    And just think how sometimes we are so much into our computers that even that is "noisy" and we are hurrying from one thing to the next on the web. "Moving our arms so much" as Neruda said.

    hats
    June 6, 2006 - 10:28 am
    JoanK,

    I love "Keeping Quiet" too. MarjV, thanks!

    MarjV
    June 6, 2006 - 11:08 am
    NPR's Lynn Neary talks to translator Alastair Reid about a newly released collection of the Chilean poet's work. Guest Alastair Reed has translated Neruda's poems, including Poems of the Sea by Pablo Neruda (Harper Collins 2004).

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1813176

    hats
    June 6, 2006 - 11:38 am
    MarjV,

    I am listening now to your link. I am very much enjoying it. Thanks.

    annafair
    June 6, 2006 - 02:32 pm
    I am sitting here weeping because of the poem Hats posted about how he became a poet. I have tried many times to tell people why I began to write .I have said I dont write poetry , poetry comes to me and bids me to write. It is not a patient mistress but a rather demanding one ..something moves in me and when I look it is a poem lurking not just in my mind but in my heart. I have wanted to write how this came about but all the words I would have written , all the thoughts I would try to say never captured what I truly felt BUT Pablo Neruda's poem did that for me. I dont see myself as good but I do see that somehow poetry chose me to write what I can write and I am so grateful it stopped by while I was still young enough to spend the rest of my life in its thrall,.OH GOD Right now I am lost for words I will have to come back later ..this is as Alliemae said emotional . anna

    MarjV
    June 6, 2006 - 03:43 pm
    And isn't it wonderful, Anna, that Neruda was able to put those words into print himself , and you & we, in 2006, have been given the gift to read them, devour them, understand them. .

    annafair
    June 6, 2006 - 05:31 pm
    You are so right I had to stay away watched a Lassie movie on TV and calmed down ..But I am going to make a copy of that poem and frame it because he caught the essence of what I have felt since I wrote my first poem of grief after my husband's death now 12 years ago..I have a poem in edit that I had come here to post and here it is. I would also like to say I have read poetry for as long as I can remember, weeping, laughing, yearning to see some of the places and feel some of the emotions expressd. I cherish all of the years but being here with this wonderful preceptive and caring group has opened doors inside that in spite of all of my reading I never knew were there. Reading and sharing the poets these past months has added a rich dimension to my understanding and appreciation of poetry and I could NEVER have done it without each of you.. anna

    PS I have a small concretion, it is hard to explain what it is since it looks much like solidified clay but it is unique and from my reading it can take as many as 5,000,000 years to form one although for this one it is estimated 10,000 years and in this poem Neruda seems to have captured my own thinking How long did it take for me to be born? For all of us to be born Not the nine months in the womb but back to the first humans on earth , even further than that ..the last lines of this poem says it for me "with your long line the fishes of the dawn"

    ODE TO AGE
    Elemental Odes
    1952-1957


    I don’t believe in age.


    All old people
    carry
    in their eyes
    a child,
    and children
    at times
    observe us with the
    eyes of wise ancients.


    Shall we treasure
    life
    in meters or kilometers
    or months?
    How far since you were born?
    How long
    must you wander
    until
    like all men
    instead of walking on its surface
    we rest below the earth


    To the man, to the woman
    who utilized their
    energies, goodness, strength ,
    anger , love, tenderness,
    to those who truly
    alive
    flowered,
    and in their sensuality matured,
    let us not apply
    the measure
    of a time
    that may be
    something else, a mineral
    mantle, solar
    bird, a flower,
    something , may ,
    but not a measure.


    Time, metal
    or bird, long
    petiolate flower,
    stretch
    through
    man’s life,
    shower him
    with blossoms
    and with
    bright
    water
    or with hidden sun.<br. I proclaim you
    road,
    not shroud,
    a pristine
    ladder
    with tread
    of air,
    a suit lovingly
    renewed
    through springtimes
    around the world.


    Now,
    time, I roll you up,
    I deposit you in my
    bait box
    and I am off to fish
    with your long line
    the fishes of the dawn !


    Pablo Neruda translated by Margaret Sayers Peden

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 01:54 am
    The thought came in my mind to dedicate that poem about "Poetry" to you. I had it on the tip of my tongue. Glad you enjoyed it. Your poetry is very, very special.

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 01:58 am
    Anna,

    Thank you for posting "Ode to Age." Pablo Neruda's poetry is just plain beautiful. His poems touch deeply. His poems touch our soul. I love the last stanza the best of all.

    Now,
    time, I roll you up,
    I deposit you in my
    bait box
    and I am off to fish
    with your long line
    the fishes of the dawn !

    MarjV
    June 7, 2006 - 05:16 am
    Those who prepare green wars,
    wars of gas, wars of fire,
    victories without survivors,
    would put on clean clothing
    and would walk alongside their brothers
    in the shade, without doing a thing.

    What I want shouldn't be confused
    with final inactivity:
    life alone is what matters,
    I want nothing to do with death.

    If we weren't unanimous
    about keeping our lives so much in motion,

    if we could do nothing for once,
    perhaps a great silence would
    interrupt this sadness,
    this never understanding ourselves
    and threatening ourselves with death,
    perhaps the earth is teaching us
    when everything seems to be dead
    and then everything is alive.

    Now I will count to twelve
    and you keep quiet and I'll go.

    -from Full Woman, Fleshly Apple, Hot Moon

    Translated by Stephen Mitchell c1998

    = = = = = =

    I laughed and sighed as I read this whole poem.Shows Neruda's dislike of war also.

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 05:21 am
    MarjV, thank you. When silence is appreciated, I think maturity is near. Too often we clutter silence with words or some kind of noise. I am going to take the twelve minute test.

    Now I will count to twelve
    and you keep quiet and I'll go.


    I am proud to say one of my son's appreciates quiet times. If he is quiet, his girlfriend wants to know is he angry.

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 05:27 am
    Past


    We have to discard the past


    and, as one builds


    floor by floor, window by window,


    and the building rises,

    so do we go on throwing down


    first, broken tiles,


    then pompous doors,


    until out of the past


    dust rises


    as if to crash


    against the floor,


    smoke rises


    as if to catch fire,


    and each new day


    it gleams


    like an empty


    plate.


    This is not the whole poem. I love the poem "Past." At times, it is time to let the past go especially the times when there is pain involved. It is such a relief to know that each day an "empty plate" is served.

    MarjV
    June 7, 2006 - 08:48 am
    I hope you'll post the rest of it soon, Hats. That is good. I like letting go of the past because otherwise it just overwhelms my activity and I slump. It affects my decision making. Not that we shouldn't acknowledge our past but not to the detriment of living in the here and now. There is so much in the here and now I can barely keep up with that. Rah, Neruda! Watch out for my falling tiles and doors!

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 09:06 am
    MarjV,

    Thank you for the reminder. I had forgotten about posting the rest of it. ____________________________________________________________________

    There is nothing, there is always nothing.


    It has to be filled


    with a new, fruitful


    space,


    then downward


    tumbles yesterday


    as in a well


    falls yesterday's water,


    into the cistern


    of all still without voice or fire.


    It is difficult to teach bones


    to disappear,


    to teach eyes


    to close


    but


    we do it


    unrealizing.


    It was all alive,


    alive, alive, alive


    like a scarlet fish


    but time


    passed over its dark cloth


    and the flash of the fish


    drowned and disappeared.


    This is not all of the poem. I think Pablo Neruda is saying it's not easy to forget the past. Although, it's not easy, it is possible. The way to do it is to fill my head with new "fruitful" thoughts, positive thoughts which will replace the old ugly thoughts.

    My eyes caught on the line with the "scarlet fish." In my eyes I see Chile as a very colorful country. Have I seen a "scarlet fish?" I am not sure. I use to have bettas. Those are very beautiful tropical fish and inexpensive too.

    MarjV
    June 7, 2006 - 09:31 am
    Now,
    time, I roll you up,
    I deposit you in my
    bait box
    and I am off to fish
    with your long line
    the fishes of the dawn !

    My favorite part of the poem. I often forget to go off and "fish".

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 10:12 am
    Water water water
    the past goes on falling
    still a tangle
    of bones
    and of roots;
    it has been, it has been, and now
    memories mean nothing.
    Now the heavy eyelid
    covers the light of the eye
    and what was once living
    now no longer lives;
    what we were, we are not.

    Scrawler
    June 7, 2006 - 10:27 am
    Love:

    Woman, I would have been your child, to drink
    the milk of your breasts as from a well,
    to see and feel you ar my side and have you
    in your gold laughter and your crystal voice.

    To feel you in my veins like God in the rivers
    and adore you in the sorrowful bones of dust and lime,
    to watch you passing painlessly by
    to emerge in the stanza - cleansed of all evil.

    How I would have you, woman, how I would
    love you, love you as no one ever did!
    Die and still
    love you more
    and still love you more
    and more.

    ~translated by Ilan Stavans

    ~ Pablo Neruda

    So many wonderful posts. It is fascinating that one poet can bring out so many emotions and with such passion. That is what I see in this poem "passion". It seems to me that what our "moder" is lacking is real passion the kind that Neruda writes about.

    MarjV
    June 7, 2006 - 11:53 am
    I'd have to disagree a bit with Neruda on the post #993.

    He ends the poem by saying "what we were we are not". I believe what we are includes all that has touched our life before hand - not that we live in that past but it is part of our being. For instance, I was a grad student in my 50s and that was neat but I can't live in that mode ;it is part of my background now.

    Scrawler - what is that word in your comment spelled "moder" ???

    I think that poem definitely includes physical passion.

    annafair
    June 7, 2006 - 12:21 pm
    You have chosen .thank goodness he has written enough we are unlikely to choose the same one. To me all of his poems show passion ie fervor, ardor, obsession, infatuation, excitement, zeal, craze, delight. I see and Feel all of these in his poems ..which is why they appeal to me..

    Someone just above said something about moving on ..and how important it was ..To me it is essential . When I moved on after my husband died, joined seniornet and began to travel and meet people one of my sons felt I was wrong to do that ( and this was after his father had been gone for nearly two years) I replied I HAVE TO MAKE NEW MEMORIES OR THE OLD ONES WILL DESTROY ME . 12 years later all of my children have been absolutely supportive of everything I have chosen to do Because they came to realize I would always love thier father. but I couldnt LIVE in the past for it would have destroyed me My husband isnt missed less because I chose to live in the here and now but it has enabled me to cherish those memories more ..and appreciate what we had while still enjoying where I am now.

    Neruda is my kind of person...with all my understanding of poets and poetry and my appreciation of them Neruda resonates with me ..I knew the few poems of his I read before choosing him for this months Poet of the Month showed me I wanted to read more . but I am humbled by the fact I chose a poet whom I understand but whose works also lets me know he would have understood me. And all of you lovely people are saying words I also needed to hear. each one of you have moved on from wherever you have been and embraced life and made each day into a sun-drenched morn...Life doesnt get better than this to find myself with poets to discuss and people whom without knowing in person I can feel I know not only your person but your hearts and souls anna

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 12:42 pm
    What a powerful statement!

    "I HAVE TO MAKE NEW MEMORIES OR THE OLD ONES WILL DESTROY ME ."

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 12:47 pm
    And with words, although the letters
    still have transparency and sound,
    they change, and the mouth changes;
    the same mouth is now another mouth;
    they change, lips, skin, circulation;
    another being has occupied our skeleton;
    what once was in us now is not.
    It has gone, but if the call, we reply;
    "I am here," knowing we are not,
    that what once was, was and is lost,
    is lost in the past, and now will not return.


    My favorite line is "another being has occupied our skeleton;" This is the end of the poem.

    MarjV
    June 7, 2006 - 02:40 pm
    That is so true isn't it, Hats - the line you quote - "another being occupies the skeleton. " I remember the day I realized I wasn't a wife any more. How many years I had been someone's wife. And then when my older son finally moved out a couple years ago, then I wasn't a person with a housemate any more. (tho I do have my fur housemates !) Interesting.

    hats
    June 7, 2006 - 02:50 pm
    MarjV,

    You will make me cry. I still miss my boys who have moved out. Thankfully, I still have my husband and my Boots. There is something lacking without the boys around the house. I can't imagine if Bill were gone too. I think widows are very special people. For years my sister was a widow. There is always a part of you missing.

    hats
    June 8, 2006 - 05:04 am
    I think we read or heard here about Isla Negra, Pablo Neruda's home. Pablo Neruda loved the sea. Much of his home is filled with items from the sea. There are many figureheads from ships in his home.

    I am beginning to fall in love with figureheads. I think in "Secret Life of Bees" the sisters had a figurehead in their home. Anyway, here is the poem.

    O lady of chipped beauty,
    mistress of the ship,
    setter of courses,
    sea woman
    of salt-stained wood,
    I love your hands
    hurt by the sea, your hair
    motionless over eyes
    that scan the round horizon
    the far reaches, the marine spring.
    Your kingdom now is here, your last ship
    that of my own brief life.


    Pablo Neruda(translated by Alastair Reid)

    Often, I notice the name, Alastair Reid, as the translator of Pablo Neruda's poems. In this poem I am reminded by Pablo Neruda that life is too short. Is it the same way for everybody? As soon as life becomes beautiful, full of wonder, overwhelming, life ends. Do we become wise too late in life?

    hats
    June 8, 2006 - 05:28 am
    figurehead

    This is not a figurehead from Pablo Neruda's home. This one does look a little like the one in the book.

    Alliemae
    June 8, 2006 - 05:54 am
    I think it all depends...

    The days are short...
    The nights are long.

    The years pass oh, so swiftly...
    The nights are long...

    The body betrays our desire
    For some of those long nights to go on and on...

    And our egocentric minds forget
    That loving is toward 'the other'...
    Who also has a life too short,
    And a night too long.

    So we become timid...shy
    Wary of soothing one another through those long, long nights.

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 8, 2006 - 06:09 am
    Wow!! That is a beautiful poem. Thank you for sharing it. I love every line. Each line is full of weight on its own. Thank you.

    MarjV
    June 8, 2006 - 06:26 am
    http://www.tinglealley.com/?m=20040712

    MarjV
    June 8, 2006 - 06:28 am
    Alliemae, thanks for your posy. You did capture the long nights that can happen in lovely thoughts.

    hats
    June 8, 2006 - 06:37 am
    MarjV,

    Thank you for the link. Isn't that figurehead just beautiful?

    Scrawler
    June 8, 2006 - 09:04 am
    Sorry, Marj. I must have pushed the "pause" button on my brain. I think I meant to say "modern", but modern what I havn't a clue. After all it was such a long time ago when I had that thought!

    From Book of Twilight (1920-1923):

    My Soul

    My soul is an empty carousel at sunset.

    ~translated by Ilan Stavans

    ~ Pablo Neruda

    I'm not sure what Neruda means by this statement. I'm not even sure that you could consider this a poem, but the words themselves seem to run smoothly over my tongue.

    MarjV
    June 8, 2006 - 09:29 am
    That happens when we lose a thought

    Perhaps it means a person lets goes of the day's challenges and is ready for the night's sleep.

    MarjV
    June 8, 2006 - 02:28 pm
    I totally forgot "Il Postino" had the postman becoming friends with Neruda. Most everywhere has the video/dvd. My library does. A neat neat movie.

    Pablo Neruda, the famous Chilean poet, is exiled to a small island for political reasons. On the island, the unemployed son of a poor fisherman is hired as an extra postman due to the huge increase in mail that this causes. Il Postino is to hand-deliver the celebrity's mail to him. Though poorly educated, the postman learns to love poetry and eventually befriends Neruda. Struggling to grow and express himself more fully, he suddenly falls in love and needs Neruda's help and guidance more than ever.

    MarjV
    June 8, 2006 - 03:56 pm
    "Monsoons"

    Eventually, I went to live across the sea.

    My house was set up in magic places,
    chapter of waves,
    of wind and salt, eye and eyelid
    of a stubborn underwater star.
    Wondrous the extravagance of the sun,
    the ample green of palm trees,
    on the edge of a forest of masts and fruit,
    with a sea harder than a blue stone,
    under a sky new-painted every day,
    never the delicate boat of one cloud,
    but an absurd gathering--
    rumbling thunder and water falling
    in cataracts, a hiss of anger--
    gravid monsoon exploding overhead,
    emptying out the great bag of its power.


    taken from Isla Negra, a notebook , c.1982, trans Alastair Reid

    Isla Negra, a notebook

    This poem truly tells his love of his beloved home. And describes some of its character in and around.

    hats
    June 9, 2006 - 03:10 am
    I love "Monsoons" by Pablo Neruda. I have enjoyed reading so much about Isla Negra. Thank you for the link MarjV In the poem above I love the line,

    "with a sea harder than a blue stone,"

    There is something so different about Isla Negra. Pablo Neruda's identity is truly found in his home. Isla Negra breathes the breath of Pablo Neruda because only the figureheads, ships in a bottle are there if they spoke to his inner self. In Pablo Neruda's world objects became poetry. This is a another poem about Isla Negra.

    Pablo Neruda


    They told me
    many things, everything.
    Not only did they touch me
    and take the hand I gave them
    but they were bound to my life
    in such a way
    that they lived in me
    and were such a living part of me
    that they shared half of my life
    and will die half of my death.

    hats
    June 9, 2006 - 03:15 am
    Pablo Neruda


    I goggle at doors,
    I poke through
    curtains,
    I buy small
    useless
    objects.


    Going to a yardsale with Pablo Neruda must have been the height of joy and fun. The tiniest and most useless object would have made him excited.

    MarjV
    June 9, 2006 - 05:09 am
    He sure had a connection with what he collected. Having such a sensitivity he would have had to buy things that fit his self-person when he saw them. Such a one-ness.

    hats
    June 9, 2006 - 05:44 am
    MarjV, I agree. Pablo Neruda could find beauty in the most ordinary object. An object I might ignore. Pablo Neruda, through his poetry, is saying beauty is all around us: a carousel horse, a shoe, a fork. He's just extraordinary. I wish he was still with us.

    From what I can understand Isla Negra is sealed up. So, visitors write his name on the fences around the property. I don't understand why his home is sealed up. Is it for political reasons?

    MarjV
    June 9, 2006 - 07:49 am
    http://www.donporter.net/Chile2005/IslaNegra/index.htm

    hats
    June 9, 2006 - 08:00 am
    This book is titled Absence and Presence. I think the copyright date is 1990. Yours is more recent.

    hats
    June 9, 2006 - 08:01 am
    MarjV, good link.

    annafair
    June 9, 2006 - 09:55 am
    I need to put my choice for today here I am always afraid I will lose it >>This man can take anything and make it special I love living near the ocean for I see seagulls each day. When there is a storm at sea they come inland and feed on morsels dropped at fast food places or wherever they can Now I know they are scavengers but like Neruda I love them and his last line is sort of quiet humor It made me smile. anna This reminds me of a saying which I am sure I havent quoted correctly There is something good in the worst of us and something bad in the best of us...I guess seagulls qualify..anna

    Ode to a Seagull


    To the seagull
    high above
    the pinewoods
    of the coast ,
    on the wind
    the sibilant
    syllable of my ode.


    Sail ,
    bright boat
    , winged banner,
    in my verse,
    stitch,
    body of silver,
    your emblem
    across the shirt
    . of the icy firmament.
    oh, aviator,
    gentle
    serenade of flight.
    snow arrow, serene
    ship in the triumphant storm ,
    steady , you soar
    while
    the hoarse wind sweeps
    the meadows of the sky.


    After your long voyage,
    feathered magnolia,
    triangle borne
    aloft on the air.
    slowly you regain
    your form ,
    arranging
    your silvery robes, shaping
    your bright treasure in an oval.
    again a
    white bird of flight.
    a round
    seed.
    egg of beauty
    .

    Another
    poet
    would end here
    his triumphant ode
    . I cannot
    limit myself
    to
    the luxurious whiteness
    of useless froth .
    Forgive me,
    seagull
    I am
    a realist
    poet,
    photographer of the sky.
    You eat,
    and eat,
    and eat,
    there is nothing
    you don’t; devour,
    on the waters of the bay.
    your bark
    like a beggar’s dog,
    you pursue
    the last
    scrap of
    fish gut,
    you peck
    at your white sisters,
    you steal
    your despicable prize,
    a rotting clump
    of floating garbage,
    you stalk
    decayed
    tomatoes,.
    the discarded
    rubbish of the cove.
    But
    in you
    it is transformed
    into clean wing .
    white geometry ,
    the ecstatic line of flight.


    That is why ,
    snowy anchor;
    aviator,
    I celebrate you as you are;
    your insatiable voraciousness ,
    your screech in the rain,
    or at rest
    a snowflake blown
    from the storm.
    at peace of in flight,
    seagull ,
    I consecrate to you
    my earth bound words,
    my clumsy attempt at flight ;
    let’s see whether you scatter
    your birdseed in my ode.


    Pablo Neruda translated by Margaret Sayers Peden Elemental Odes 1952-1957

    MarjV
    June 9, 2006 - 10:25 am
    The 4th verse is truly hilarious

    If that poem doesn't say all about gulls I can't think what else does. He includes the beautiful and the ugly. I like it.

    hats
    June 9, 2006 - 10:29 am
    Anna,

    I like it too. A Seagull's voice is strange.

    your bark
    like a beggar’s dog,

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 9, 2006 - 10:44 am
    It has taken me two days of reading to do it but I have just completed reading 977 posts - most all of Seamus Heaney right through Mary Oliver, Gwendalyn Brooks and now Pablo Neruda -

    This may have been the best thing for me to see the differences in the poets styles - Pablo Neruda brings to mind words like delicate - yes, nature as Mary Oliver but far more delicate than Mary - his work reminds me of an Native American poem by Red Dawn -

    "Walk softly, O My Sisters, O My Brothers. Tread lightly, break not the stillness of the dawn, for in this stillness one can hear the whispers of the Great Spirit.

    Choose your path and walk forward, turn not back. And, when the stone appears the obstacle, turn each stone one by one. Do not try to move the mountain, but turn each stone that makes the mountain.

    And when the desert sands sear your moccasins, curse not in despair lest the South Wind hear and construe and bring wrath upon your head. And when the path bristles with thorns, turn not from the path, for the strife of life are the thorns. Tread softly. Speak softly. For on this path you will need the wisdom of chieftains. The admonishments of your Chiefs can become your strength.

    And when the cold winds buffet you, bend with the wind. And, soon, you will walk unattended.

    On the path you may meet an old one, who will stop for you as you will stop for him. Age meets youth, and youth meets age. Remember the little ones along the way. Take time to walk with others along the path, especially those who have pointed your way to higher trails -- your Mother and your Father.

    Walk softly so that you will hear the sounds. When you meet and hear the cries of the oppressed, the sick, the little ones, and those who seek you -- be not ashamed that your tear mingles with theirs. For in this walking there is an awakening.

    Think twice before you walk the trail of the Red Man. Then walk softly, O My Sisters, O My Brothers."


    I loved what Jim did with your words Hats - I copied the one about your mother to turn to - it touched me...

    Anna you have been having a difficult time this Spring - your sense of loss seems coupled with your health losses. Hope you can regain your health as you have regained your spirit through your writing.

    Marj and Scrawler as insightful as ever - Marj I loved how you were thoughtful with the idea of a bird passing the day from one to the other - and Scrawler interesting to learn, although you may have shared and I simply forgot, that your husband came from New Mexico, the Land of Enchantment.

    All the Chicken for supper or NOT stories were a hoot to read.

    And now Alliemae is a regular now - so pleased to read your posts - yes, I loved and thought you brought the best words to describe how when Neruda writes it is as if he is an integral part of nature.

    I clicked on every link and at 2: this morning I had to force myself to bed as I would get lost in the various links y'all provided.

    hats
    June 9, 2006 - 10:52 am
    What a good surprise to see your words here. I hope you will share some of your poetry with us soon. Now I know you are exhausted from reading so many posts.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 9, 2006 - 11:20 am
    Sorry I cannot get past my grandmothers interpretation of seagulls - when I was young we lived on a small Island and my grandmother would take my sister in her stroller and I for a walk that usually ended up on the beach sand - The gulls were thick flashing in the sunlight and everytime she would scold the seagulls in German - something about them being the dirtiest birds that ate from the garbage heap and plopped their dodo all over her sheets when she hung them out to dry. Oh she went on - and to be sure I understood just how dirty they were that part was said to me in English. hehehehe oh grandma, who would even scrub down our front steps if Mom couldn't get to it...

    Now this one shared earlier - it is amazing - my daughter sent me what my grandson at 15 just wrote for school

    First the poem as a re-write:

    And with words, although the letters
    still have transparency and sound,
    they change, and the mouth changes;
    the same mouth is now another mouth;
    they change, lips, skin, circulation;
    another being has occupied our skeleton;
    what once was in us now is not.
    It has gone, but if the call, we reply;
    "I am here," knowing we are not,
    that what once was, was and is lost,
    is lost in the past, and now will not return.


    And this is what my grandson wrote about what he believed in...

    "I believe in the power of words. Not just the ideas that they convey, but the literal effect that a single word has on the listener, particularly when the speaker knows how say them to give maximum effect. I guess the best word for explaining what I mean is Onomatopoeia. It a literary device used to describe the sounds of physical actions through words like Buzz and Bang. Though I am speaking of all words, because they can make a connection from one person to another, creating the network of souls binding our universe.

    For example, the words stop and go.

    When I say the word go, it allows he mouth to relax at the end with a vowel. An open, moving sound. But with stop, it cuts you off with a consonant. Bam. Those words express their meanings, not just because we memorized the meanings when we were very young, because the command GO will command you to MOVE and DRIVE. But STOP with force you to HALT and BREAK. Though these are simple examples, the force of words binds our society, and can tear it apart in the bat of an eye. We use the power of words to express our own beliefs, and dramatically convey our personal truths and falsehoods.

    Quite literally, THIS I believe."

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 9, 2006 - 11:37 am
    Hats thanks for the welcome back - I am working on some stuff but the last few months I have been in a different place. One thing I am doing is planting gardens in my front and back yard - it has been fun and a trick because you know how I love the deer and so everything I plant must be deer resistant or else they eat it up like candy. What is amazing is learning how many plants are deer resistant AND attract butterflies.

    Lots of happenings including my dear friend who has had her knee replaced but more, she has been the sole caregiver to her husband age 90 - few of us realized how much care she was giving and of course her children were taken back since she was looking so bad at 86 as compared to Bill who was getting all the care. They tried to get her to realize she needed a live-in to take over without much success - No one wants to hear their children tell them what to do and at the same time tell how they 'should' retire [Charlotte was a nurse before her children] that she is doing 'too much'.

    And so by helping Charlotte realize she had been acting as the executive director of a small nursing home and she is now going to be out of pocket so that if there was any emergency with Bill she would harm her own healing if she tried to handle it - much less realizing she was going to need help to function regardless she didn't like a stranger living in her home - and then we discussed how many things we do that we do not like but we did them - like birthing our babies was not what we looked forward to liking - on and on for over 6 hours till Charlotte felt her power and control come back and realized either she made the decisions and interviewed the potential help or, it would be done for her as things progressed and then she would really feel like a child again doing what others decided for her.

    Then we had one work day to find the help and another day to list and type up everything Bill does from wake up to bed including all the services he sees during the week - Charlotte, bless her heart, does not think time, phone numbers, tasks - but rather long paragraphs about what Bill did or did not do in the past that led to this or that catastrophe - what he is capable of and what he should do for himself to stay vital - had to try and make lists out of all that so that her sister Barb age 80 and the help knew what to expect and would not be at cross hairs with each other without a way to divvy up the work - and then I stayed in the hospital at night since her daughter, who is a nurse, took care of Bill at home - on and on -

    This has been a full time task timed on the heals of helping a young couple find and close on their first home and all sorts of family issues that include the disposal of my sons aches which is still in the air - or rather I wish they were in the air - amazing how who pays what becomes an issue of the ownership of ashes - all in all - I have been wiped out. My gardening is filling up my hole.

    Oh dear - however, I was gone for so long and I am sure you wondered why - so there

    Scrawler
    June 9, 2006 - 12:20 pm
    "As the disturbances of 1973 unfolded, Neruda, then deathly ill from prostate cancer, was devasted by the mounting attacks on the Allende government. The final military coup led by General Augusto Pinochet on 11 September saw Neruda's hopes for a socialist and democratic Chile literally go up in flames. Shortly thereafter, during a search of the house and grounds at Isla Negra by Chilean armed forces at which he was present, Neruda famously remarked:

    Look around - there's only one thing of danger for you here - poetry.

    Neruda died of leukemia on the evening of September 23, 1973, at Santiago's Santa Maria Clinic. Subsequent to his death, Neruda's homes in both Valparaiso and Santiago were looted and vandalized. His wife moved his body to lie in state amidst the rubble in the couple's Santiago house La Chascona, which had just been violently ransacked by the armed forces, as a way of drawing world attention to the ongoing conduct of Pinochet's junta. His funeral took place with a massive police presence, and mourner's took advantage of the occasion to protest the Pinochet regime." ~ www.answers.com

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 9, 2006 - 01:57 pm
    For such a gentle poet this man lived during harsh times... maybe he is the example of greater strength in gentleness.

    I loved from the poem "Lost in the forest..." this thought -- "a shout muffled by huge autumns" to me the words are a perfect way of saying how I think his poetry comes across - I can hear the power and yet all is muffled and gentle as if coming through a mist.

    And I love these phrases - "I broke off a dark twig and lifted its whisper to my thirsty lips:" -- "the hazel-sprig sang under my tongue," -- "wounded by the wandering scent."

    Lost in the forest...

    Lost in the forest, I broke off a dark twig
    and lifted its whisper to my thirsty lips:
    maybe it was the voice of the rain crying,
    a cracked bell, or a torn heart.

    Something from far off it seemed
    deep and secret to me, hidden by the earth,
    a shout muffled by huge autumns,
    by the moist half-open darkness of the leaves.

    Wakening from the dreaming forest there, the hazel-sprig
    sang under my tongue, its drifting fragrance
    climbed up through my conscious mind

    as if suddenly the roots I had left behind
    cried out to me, the land I had lost with my childhood---
    and I stopped, wounded by the wandering scent.

    annafair
    June 10, 2006 - 02:56 am
    Here it is going on toward 6am on Saturday and finally I was able to return and read your posts. Scrawler you always take the time to flesh out our understanding and reading by adding links to things that tie in with our study Thank you so much for that..Hats I think it is impossible to forget the past It is part of who we are , what we were.Yesterday I had some places to go and passed a place that had special meaning to me when my husband was alive ..I pass it often but yesterday my memories drowned me and I was glad I was driving on an empty street so I could weep and not have an accident.

    Alliemae thank you for your poem although thanks seems such an inadequate word for your gift

    I made notes but I am going to have to improve my writing. What happened to the Palmer Method my first grade school teacher drummed into me ? Lost on a typewriter , that is what I get from being overly proud of my penmanship!

    My soul is an empty carousel at sunset? Looks like what I wrote ..to me it means it is quiet, no one is there just empty horses, meaningless without people and music and revolving. When did he write this ? Sounds like he is accepting that his life is ending.

    And Barbara welcome back I know how busy you have been ...A lot has been going on in your life.And with all you have had on your plate still time to help your friend to accept what she needs to do ...

    Now I can go back to bed and hopefully rest if I cant sleep.My need to return and read your words and the poems and feelings you share here was like a little mouse gnawing at the edge of my mind So when I woke up I had to come and visit with you. Thank you for being here..anna

    JoanK
    June 10, 2006 - 06:08 am
    BARBARA: I'm so glad you're here.

    I loved the native American poem. If we could slow ourselves down enough to hear their gentle philosophy, how different our lives would be.

    I, too, have a special feeling for gulls, greedy and noisy as I know them to be. Where I used to work, my window looked out on the roof of the building across the street. Boring? No! There was something in their heating system that sent a stream of warm air up all winter. Our winter gulls (not seagulls, but a closely related fresh water species) quickly found that it was a wonderful place to play. They would fly into the stream low down, glide around and around in circles being carried up to the sky, until they were specks, then fly down to the bottom and do it again -- and again.

    You can't tell me that birds don't feel joy!! But whether they do or nor, I couldn't help feeling joy every time I watched them.

    annafair
    June 11, 2006 - 04:44 am
    Oh Yes I agree birds feel joy..and like you watching them brings joy to the person who takes the time to see them soar.

    I think I read a dozen poems before I could decide on one ..and this is the one with how it made me feel and of course I ask HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL? anna

    It is hard to decide among the many which poem to choose. This appealed to me because it seems he is saying we all have questions, we all puzzle about life’s meaning and this is what he has found. That everything , even the denizens of the sea wait for the same thing we do For TIME to pass. The sea holds many treasures …and they cannot be counted.. With all the treasures of the sea we are but man who are lifeless in its dark and only know what we see in our life, the measurements , the triangle , the roundness of an orange and when all is done , after all our questions, all our trying to understand we are like a fish caught in the wind. No wiser than the sea.

    CANTO GENERAL
    1938-1945


    THE ENIGMAS


    You’ve asked me what the crustacean spins
    between its gold claws
    and I reply: the sea knows
    . You wonder what the sea squirt waits for in is transparent bell?
    What
    does it wait for?
    I’ll tell you : It’s waiting for time like you.
    You ask me whom the embrace of the alga Macrocystis reaches?
    Inquire, inquire at a certain hour, in a certain sea I know.
    You’ll doubtlessly ask me about the halcyonic feathers that
    tremble
    in the pure origins of the austral sea?
    And about the polyp’s crystalline construction you’re no doubt
    pondering
    another problem , trying to unriddle it now?
    Do you want to know the electric matter of the sea floor’s barbs?
    The armed stalactite that breaks as it walks?
    The hook of the fisher fish, music stretched out
    in the depths like a thread in the water?


    I want to tell you that the sea knows this,
    that life in its coffers
    is wide as the sand, countless and pure,
    and amid sanguinary grapes time has polished
    the hardness of a petal, the medusa’s light,
    and is has plucked the bouquet of its coral fibers
    from a cornucopia of infinite mother -of - pearl.<br. I’m nothing but the empty net that advances
    human eyes, lifeless in that darkness,
    fingers accustomed to the triangle , measurements
    of an orange’s shy hemisphere.


    I lived like you probing
    the interminable star,
    and in my net , at night , I awakened naked,
    the only catch, a fish trapped in the wind.


    Pablo Neruda

    hats
    June 11, 2006 - 05:36 am
    Anna, thank you for posting "Canto General 1938-1945." It is a little like the poem I want to post today. I love this poem because it reminds me of what I don't know. Too often I am aware of what is known and remembered, the between years. What about the beginning and end? There is nothing remembered or written down. The beginning and end, the most important parts of my life, have no record and will have no record. This is what makes me feel insignificant, keeps my ego under control.

    Births by Pablo Neruda

    We will never have any memory of dying.
    We were so patient
    about our being,
    noting down
    numbers, days,
    years and months,
    hair, and the mouths we kiss,
    and that moment of dying
    we let pass without a note--
    we leave it to others as memory,
    or we leave it simply to water,
    to water, to air, to time.
    Nor do we even keep
    the memory of being born,
    although to come into being was tumultuous and new;
    and now you don't remember a single detail
    and haven't kept even a trace
    of your first light.


    This is part of the poem.

    MarjV
    June 11, 2006 - 05:54 am
    Both those poems are exquisite.

    Anna's post speaks the eternal question of why are we here in amongst those beautifully crafted questions.

    And Hat's post - cant wait to read the rest of the poem.I never thought about those two ideas til I read this poem. Such an interesting observation.

    Some people claim to be able to help you remember the birth experience - I don't know about things in that area. I don't think I need to remember it.

    hats
    June 11, 2006 - 06:04 am
    It's well known that we are born
    It's well known that in the room
    or in the wood
    or in the shelter in the fishermen's quarter
    or in the rustling canefields
    there is a quite unusual silence,
    a grave and wooden moment as
    a woman prepares to give birth.


    It's well known that we were all born.


    But of that abrupt translation
    from not being to existing, to having hands,
    to seeing, to having eyes,
    to eating and weeping and overflowing
    and loving and loving and suffering and suffering,
    of that transition, that quivering
    of an electric presence, raising up
    one body more, like a living cup,
    and of that woman left empty,
    the mother who is left there in her blood
    and her lacerated fullness,
    and its end and its beginning, and disorder
    tumbling the pulse, the floor, the covers
    till everything comes together and adds
    one knot more to the thread of life,
    nothing, nothing remains in your memory
    of the savage sea which summoned up a wave
    and plucked a shrouded apple from the tree.


    The only thing you remember is your life.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is all of "Births."

    JoanK
    June 11, 2006 - 07:56 am
    Two amazing poems.

    annafair
    June 11, 2006 - 09:07 am
    That Hats and I would choose similar poems If I had read the one Hats posted first I would have chose it as well but as usual Neruda gives us so much to think about. I do recall being not quite 3 when my brother was born, Not his birth the knowledge he had been born and being under the kitchen table with another 2+year old cousin Roy David and knowing my aunts Nora and Josie were there and thier white shoes and hose and white dresses and the heat in the room made me think for years he was born in the winter instead of August.Interesting that my last grandson born by caesarian section from the beginnng has been the happiest baby. Even in the hospital nursery his sweet smile seemed to indicate he was happy to be here.

    When I was growing up people did not go to the hospital to die but died at home in thier beds with family about ..as my husband did >.for the most part these were gentle departures and if they dont remember it is not just a small comfort to those who stay behind that it was a gentle going..Oh Neruda knows where we are and his poetry finds me and holds my heart .anna

    Scrawler
    June 11, 2006 - 09:21 am
    Alliance (Sonata):

    Of dusty glances fallen to the ground
    or of soundless leaves burying themselves
    Of metals without light, with the emptiness,
    with the absence of suddenly dead day.
    At the tip of the hands the dazzlement of butterflies, the upflight of butterflies whose light has no end.

    to be cont.~ Pablo Neruda

    This is a long poem, but so beautiful I'm going to post it a little at a time. I love the "upflight of butterflies" in relation to the "dead day."

    MarjV
    June 11, 2006 - 10:57 am
    I think it is such a super idea to partially post poems that are long- or full of ideas that can be broken - if we want we can easily 'search' and find the former verses .

    Fantastic line in that poem as you say Scrawler....at the tip of the hands the dazzlement of butterflies, the upflight of butterflies whose light has no end. That sight would surely turn around an otherwise dead day as I understand the verse.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 11, 2006 - 12:22 pm
    OH MY like a buffet - Anna I had to look up to find a photo of all the sea creatures named in the poem - with those photos at hand the whole poem gave new meaning to the idea that we never know what we destroy when we change nature before we can even identify what is before our eyes or now how all that is before our eyes relates to a whole. I love that poem and like an earlier poem where a book was created with art work I would love to see that poem spread out on pages with photos of these sea creatures embellishing each page.

    And Hats the idea that we are all just "one knot more to the thread of life," is profound - like a human woven carpet or tapestry - and the turn of phrase following is filled with the energy that says conception and birth.
    "nothing, nothing remains in your memory
    of the savage sea which summoned up a wave
    and plucked a shrouded apple from the tree.

    And yes, I have thought that the dying is really silent it is what happens immediately before we die when we still register emotions and then the loss sometimes accompanied by chaos that is left to be sorted out by loved ones and the community.

    "and that moment of dying
    we let pass without a note--
    we leave it to others as memory,
    or we leave it simply to water,
    to water, to air, to time.

    Such a wonderful use of water which can easily be tears - we leave it simply to tears, to tears. To the air seems to me is saying we speak aloud our thoughts, prayers, pain of loss and even sometime regrets till time lessons the immediacy.

    There are more folks wanting everyone to get past the grieving, the air if you would. however, I am beginning to see that if death is part of life than coming to terms with death as a companion to our society - not as a monster to fear - but a soft companion as a pregnancy - would be a value to our spirit. I guess as we prefer not to dwell on the birth process because it is often chaotic and uncomfortable to witness that is how we also view death - with birth there is the soft charm of the new born - in death only memory remains. Amazing that to continue the carpet or tapestry the death of a knot does not stop the knowledge within the body of the young how to create a new knot.

    Scrawler yes, to focus on just that one phrase "the dazzlement of butterflies," makes the argument for only printing out parts of a long poem worth its weight in golden moments of lifting our spirit.

    MarjV
    June 11, 2006 - 02:40 pm
    In 1936, Pablo Neruda was Chile’s consul in Madrid, and so horrified by the civil war and the murder of his friend, Federico Garcia Lorca, that he started writing what became his most politically passionate series of poems, Spain in Our Hearts. The collection was printed by soldiers on the front lines of the war, and later incorporated into the third volume of Neruda’s revolutionary collection, Residence on Earth. This bilingual New Directions Bibelot edition presents Spain in Our Hearts as a single book as it was first published, a tribute to Neruda’s ever-lasting spirit.

    "Curse" - a poem from "Spain in our Hearts"

    Furrowed motherland, I swear that in your ashes
    you will be born like a flower of eternal water
    I swear that from your mouth of thirst will ccome to the air
    the petals of bread, the spilt
    inaugurated flower. Cursed,
    cursed, cursed be those who with an ax and serpent
    came to your earthly arena, cursed those
    who waited for this day to open the door
    of the dwelling to the moor and the bandit:
    What have you achieved? Bring, bring the lamp,
    see the soaked earth, see the blackened little bone
    eaten by the flames, the garment
    of murdered Spain.


    "Curse" by Pablo Neruda, from Spain In Our Hearts, copyright © 1973 by Pablo Neruda, and Donald D. Walsh. Copyright © 2006 New Directions Publishing Corp.

    I decided we needed a taste of his political passion when I came across this. And most interesting this book was printed by the soldiers !

    MarjV
    June 11, 2006 - 02:42 pm


    “Through the streets the broken blood of man joined
    the water that emerges from the ruined hearts of home:
    the bones of the shattered children, the heartrending
    black-clad silence of the mothers, the eyes
    forever shut of the defenseless,
    were like sadness and loss, were like a spit-upon garden,
    were faith and flower forever murdered.”


    Sad, ugly and heartbreaking. His statement needed to be that way for him to tell of his love and passion.

    annafair
    June 12, 2006 - 07:00 am
    I think that speaks about how he feels when he sees anything .. He is moved by simple things and by the horrors he sees. His passion has no limits HE FEELS ..

    Here is my choice for today ..and my explanation but I welcome any comments that might help to understand. In choosing this poem I had to research some about the albatross as well as the other birds , The albatross can stay aloft for months and to rest their wings they come in low to the ocean and their backs become wet by the sea,. All of these birds live in the vicinity of Chile coasts ..It is hard to always understand this poet for his experiences are truly reflected in his poetry >.Even the simple things like his Ode to Two Socks. I am not sure, although I tried to find the information I needed to tell you what this seemed to be about. There are sub headings in the Canto General and this one comes under the oceans. I don’t know, but I felt he was describing all the birds that feed in the ocean near Chile and their need to land there ..even the albatross after many months at sea has to come home ..To me the last verse is his desire to come home to Chile , a place he has left behind in his travels. Anyone else have any idea? In any case I love the poem , it flows , I can almost feel the rhythm of the birds in flight as I have watched them off the coast of Virginia and North Carolina I think like Neruda it is not only the albatross but all the sea birds that draw me there and when I am away for a time I too feel a need to go back and be there. anna

    From Canto General
    1938-1949


    NOT ONLY THE ALBATROSS


    You’re not expected ,not by
    springtime, not in the corolla’s thirst,
    not in the purple honey woven
    fiber by fiber in vine stocks and clusters,
    but in the tempest, in the tattered
    torrential cupola of the reef,
    and even more, in the crumbling
    solitude of marine wastelands.


    Brides of salt, procellarian pigeons.
    you bent your back wet by the sea
    to every impure aroma of the earth,
    and into the wild purity you plunged
    the celestial geometry of flight.


    You’re sacred , not only the one that rode
    the gale of the bough like a cyclonic
    droplet, not only the one that nests
    on the slopes of fury, but
    the gull rounded off with snow,
    the form of the cormorant upon the foam.
    the silver-plated bundle of platinum.


    When the pelican fell like a
    clenched fist, plunging its volume,
    when prophecy soared
    on the vast wing of the albatross,
    and when the petrel’s wind flew
    over eternity in motion.
    beyond the old cormorants,
    my heart took refuge in its cup
    and extended the mouth of its song
    to the seas and feathers.


    Grant me the icy tin that you bear
    in your breast to the tempestuous stones ,
    grant me the condition that collects
    in the talons of the osprey ,
    on the motionless stature that resists
    all growth and ruptures ,
    the abandoned orange-blossomed wind
    and the taste of the boundless homeland.


    Pablo Neruda

    hats
    June 12, 2006 - 07:12 am
    "Spain in our Hearts" is very moving. MarjV, I am glad you are posting it. I haven't seen it in my books yet. I am behind in reading posts. Excuse me for not commenting yet.

    I did enjoy reading the one Scrawler posted with the "butterflies."

    hats
    June 12, 2006 - 07:20 am
    Anna, in "Not Only The Albatross" I can feel Pablo Neruda's love of nature. To make us become one with his love of nature I think he names many birds. I tried to count each one. I know little about any of these birds. I would like to know about each bird. I am sure it would add to the richness of the poem. My favorite line is "the celestial geometry of flight."

    1. petrel

    2. comorant

    3. albatross

    4. pigeons

    5. pelicans

    6. osprey

    7. gull

    hats
    June 12, 2006 - 08:35 am
    Today we are burying our own poor man;
    our poor poor man.
    He was always so badly off
    that this is the first time
    his person is personified.
    For he had neither house nor land,
    nor alphabet nor sheets,
    nor roast meat,
    and so from one place to another, on the roads,
    he went, dying from lack of life,
    dying little by little--
    that was the way of it from his birth.


    This is another sad poem. It makes me remember not to forget or dismiss any person.

    "dying from lack of life."

    This man died because no one thought to even smile at him or say hello. No one thought about his need to eat, to sleep, to survive.

    MarjV
    June 12, 2006 - 08:56 am
    That one is beautiful in it's sadness and memorializing, Hats. Thanks for posting it. We are sure getting the total flavor of Neruda's thinking.

    " this is the first time
    his person is personified"

    Can you imagine a life totally like that !!!!!!

    And love the flow of Anna's post - the birds and the water and the wind.

    JoanK
    June 12, 2006 - 10:03 am
    Oh, I love the Albatross poem. He loves birds as much as I do -- these are my old friends. He captures each one with a few words:

    When the pelican fell like a clenched fist, plunging its volume, when prophecy soared on the vast wing of the albatross, and when the petrel’s wind flew over eternity in motion. beyond the old cormorants, my heart took refuge in its cup and extended the mouth of its song to the seas and feathers.

    If you've ever seen pelicans dive, albatrosses soaring, cororants drying their wings and looking as old as the hills -- he has caught them all!

    Scrawler
    June 12, 2006 - 11:29 am
    You kept the trail of light, of broken beings
    that the abandoned sun, sinking, casts at the churches
    Stained with glances, dealing with bees
    your substance fleeing from unexpected flame
    precedes and follows the day and its family of gold.

    ~ to be cont. ~ Pablo Neruda

    I think this stanza is more difficult to understand. Who are the "broken beings"? Do you suppose it might be those that are fighting either in Civil War or at least running from an enemy with unexpected flame? But the most interesting line I think is "dealing with bees. Is this symbolic or is it literal?

    annafair
    June 12, 2006 - 12:22 pm
    I love all the poems posted and Joan our family spent 2 weeks each summer for 20 years on the Outer Banks of NC and while I see birds here it was there I had the time to view them well A flight of pelicans early in the morning sihouetted against the rose pink sky would just make me catch my breath and of course as they dove to find thier breakfast ..all of the shore birds , and there are more than one can know unless you take the time to read about them and see pictures so you can recognize them next time We have herons here and egrets and my favorite are the saucy sandpipers who on quick short legs hunt for food and when in flight look like silver birds..As I say I dont know where Neruda was when he wrote that poem but I feel he was remembering and allowed his memory to take him home ...Scrawler I havent read that poem yet and I have been trying to place the poems in some sort of order By that I mean a time frame when he might have written them It does sound like he is possibly talking about the Spanish Civil war he is praising I think those who have fought for the right side , and I wonder if the bees could be bullets ? just a thought and BOY does he make me think ..anna

    hats
    June 12, 2006 - 02:02 pm
    Anna and JoanK, I have enjoyed the beautiful way you have of describing the birds. Anna, you might have read some of JoanK's good bird posts during the Audubon discussion. Wonderful.

    I might have made a mistake by listing each bird in the poem separately. I just knew that each bird had its individual colors and way of flight. I think Pablo Neruda proved that in his poem. I really believe Pablo Neruda enjoyed the sea, birds and all natural life. He is an amazing poet. I think he would have been a man you would want to talk to for hours. At least, we have his poetry.

    Alliemae
    June 12, 2006 - 03:07 pm
    ...I feel the same way. I know lots of common wild birds: cardinals, finches, robins, mocking birds, bluejays...but even tho I'm originally from the Atlantic coast, I've never taken the time to really look for the different types of sea birds.

    So...I've copied down Hats' list and now I'm off to my old and tattered bird book (given to me by my dad). It's an old paperback and is scribbled in so many places by a myriad of grand and great-grandchildren...but I love it!

    So thanks Hats...for making me aware of something new to learn today!

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    June 12, 2006 - 03:18 pm
    You didn't make any mistake, Hats, by listing the birds. I thought it was neat to draw attention to them as separate even tho in the poem they all were part of the whole.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 12, 2006 - 03:53 pm
    I usually go to the coast each year - either Aransas or Rockport where the sea birds are on the wing - the wind blows hard so that it is often difficult to hear them above the wind - never saw an albatross though -

    I am purchasing two books of Pablo Neruda poems - the Cantos and the one about the Spanish Civil War - from the smattering shared here I think both books would give me many hours of introspection.

    hats
    June 13, 2006 - 02:57 am
    This has been a great month! I am enjoying it so much.

    annafair
    June 13, 2006 - 05:57 am
    as you can see YOU DID NO WRONG....I too thought it was very important to mention each bird.. I have never SEEN an albatross but my husband did .. I believe it is the island of Midway where albatross nest and roost ..the young albatross cant seem to fly and although I read about this a long time ago I cant remember why. Any way when "launching " day arrived all of the personnel would come out to the runways which would be covered with the fledging birds and pick them up and toss them in the air..and they would take off, The airman named them "Gooney Birds" and some planes from the time of WWII were named gooney birds I hope this is a link to the birds of midway you can click on each bird and see pictures of them

    http://people.wwc.edu/staff/nestja/midway/birds.htm

    Since we have so many shore birds here I have seen pictures of the local species and being a bird lover I have to admire them , even the "messy" ones...anna

    hats
    June 13, 2006 - 06:03 am
    Anna, thank you for the website. I will take my time looking through it.

    annafair
    June 13, 2006 - 06:54 am
    Here is my choice for today it is about the dawning day ..not just the one day Neruda is describing but all days .and like life the ending is not the same as the beginning.. to me Neruda is saying again in his own unique and lovely way . This is all we have and lets enjoy each minute , savor each second...I love the line "so that our life may simply be a pure morning substance, a clear current" anna

    From
    ISLA NEGRA
    1962-1964


    DAY DAWNS


    Day dawns without debts,
    without doubts,
    and later
    the day changes ,
    the wheel revolves,
    the fire is transfigured .


    Nothing is left
    of what dawned, the earth consumed itself
    grape by grape,
    the heart was left without blood,
    spring was left without leaves.


    Why did it happen this very day?
    Why was it mistaken in its bells?
    Or does everything always have to do so?
    How to twist, unravel the thread
    keep on pushing the sun back to the shadows,
    send back the light until the night
    grows big again with day?
    May this day be our child,
    endless discovery, aura
    of time recovered,
    conquest of debt and doubt,
    so that our life
    may simply be
    a pure morning substance
    a clear current


    Pablo Neruda
    translation Alastair Reid

    Alliemae
    June 13, 2006 - 07:15 am
    "Day dawns without debts,
    without doubts,..."


    I like these two lines...they seem to give a whole new meaning to 'one day at a time...'

    "Why did it happen this very day?"

    ...and I wonder in what context this poem, especially this line, was written.

    Alliemae

    annafair
    June 13, 2006 - 07:34 am
    So did I ...if anyone can enlighten us I would appreciate knowing...but I loved the whole poem and you're right One day at a time! Each month I hate to leave the poet we have been discussing and I know I will go on to another poet reluctantly ...the only good thing is there are so many poets out there that will stir us in ways we could never imagine...anna

    Scrawler
    June 13, 2006 - 09:46 am
    Alliance (Sonata):

    The spying days cross in secret
    but they fall within your voice of light.
    Oh mistress of love, in your rest
    I established my dream, my silent attitude.

    With your body of timid number, suddenly extended
    to the quantities tht define the earth,
    behind the struggle of the days white with space
    I feel your lap burn and your kisses travel
    shaping fresh swallows in my sleep.

    At times the destiny of your tears ascends
    like age to my forehead, there
    the waves are crashing, smashing themselves to death:
    their movement is moist, drifting, ultimate.

    ~ transulated by Donald D. Walsh ~ Pablo Neruda

    Since the years that he wrote this poem covers WWII I think that perhaps Neruda was comparing the struggles going on in the world to the earth itself: "behind the struggle of the days white with space/and cold with slow deaths and withered stimuli/the waves are crashing, smashing themselves to death: their movement is moist, drifting, ultimate."

    MarjV
    June 13, 2006 - 12:05 pm
    "May this day be our child, endless discovery, aura of time recovered, conquest of debt and doubt, so that our life may simply be a pure morning substance a clear current"

    I sure did glom onto these lines for my own. His analogy of a new day to a child is a wonder. Sometimes I go off into a mind vacation and get some simplicity.

    MarjV
    June 13, 2006 - 12:40 pm
    Neither clown nor child nor black
    nor white but verticle
    and a questioning innocence
    dressed in night and snow:
    The mother smiles at the sailor,
    the fisherman at the astronaunt,
    but the child child does not smile
    when he looks at the bird child,
    and from the disorderly ocean
    the immaculate passenger
    emerges in snowy mourning.

    I was without doubt the child bird
    there in the cold archipelagoes
    when it looked at me with its eyes,
    with its ancient ocean eyes:
    it had neither arms nor wings
    but hard little oars
    on its sides:
    it was as old as the salt;
    the age of moving water,
    and it looked at me from its age:
    since then I know I do not exist;
    I am a worm in the sand.

    the reasons for my respect
    remained in the sand:
    the religious bird
    did not need to fly,
    did not need to sing,
    and through its form was visible
    its wild soul bled salt:
    as if a vein from the bitter sea
    had been broken.

    Penguin, static traveler,
    deliberate priest of the cold,
    I salute your vertical salt
    and envy your plumed pride

    - - - - - -

    Magellanic penguin is the largest of the warm-weather penguins. This penguin was named after Ferdinand Magellan who first saw them in 1519 on his first voyage around the tip of South America. They have a wide black strip under their chin and another is in the shape of an upside down horseshoe on their stomachs. On their chests they have scattered black spots. For more about them http://www.siec.k12.in.us/~west/proj/penguins/magell.html

    I really did enjoy this poem when I came across it. It has a comical and sad aspect.

    MarjV
    June 13, 2006 - 12:44 pm
    http://www.birdersworld.com/brd/default.aspx?c=a&id=415

    MarjV
    June 13, 2006 - 12:51 pm
    The ode is an elaborate, lyric poem that dates back to the Greek choral songs that were sung and danced at public events and celebrations. Odes celebrated beloved objects, events or people. The Greek odes were arranged in stanzas patterned in sets of three. During the Renaissance the ode was revived in Italy and France. In the 19th-century, Romantic poets such as Keats, Shelley, and Coleridge wrote odes that tended to be freer in form and subject matter than the classical style. In the modern era the irregular ode that has no set pattern has emerged. Writers as diverse as Gary Soto and Pablo Neruda have published books of odes dedicated to people, places and things that were dear to them.

    hats
    June 13, 2006 - 01:05 pm
    Anna, I really enjoyed your latest poem. Beautiful. Pablo Neruda goes on delivering wonderful, thoughtful poems.

    MarjV, I love your poem. I think it's funny but mostly sad, I think. I did like it immediately. I appreciate all of the links along with Anna's links.

    I salute your vertical salt
    and envy your plumed pride


    At times I need "vertical salt." When I think of salt, old sailors come to mind, men and women who have withstood all sorts of hard issues. After going through all the obstacles, they've still got spunk left, spicy salt.

    hats
    June 13, 2006 - 01:10 pm
    At times the destiny of your tears ascends
    like age to my forehead, there
    the waves are crashing, smashing themselves to death:
    their movement is moist, drifting, ultimate.


    ~ transulated by Donald D. Walsh ~ Pablo Neruda


    Scrawler, your poem is a little difficult. The ending lines spoke to me. I feel this is the type of person not found easily in life. When such a person is discovered, there is a need to hold on tight, not to let them slip away.

    This type of person understands our pain. When we cry, they cry. Our tears don't fall down. Our tears fall upward becoming their tears instead of our tears. In this way, the sharing of tears, we become stronger and more able to face the next pain which might come.

    MarjV
    June 13, 2006 - 02:17 pm
    Well said, Hats. I was having a difficult time trying to get anythinig into words about that poem.

    Alliemae
    June 14, 2006 - 05:17 am
    What a captivating article!

    and...what an endearing poem is "Magellanic Penguin" Thank you Marj!

    I begin to wonder what in nature and in his own life and experiences Neruda did NOT commune with in the most spiritual sense...

    I am enjoying this poet so much that I'm grateful that our next month's poet will talk about the sea!

    Isn't it a wonderful world when poets and other writers, artists and musicians not only open up the world to us but put us more closely in tune with our own. Their place in the human community is priceless. I cherish them.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    June 14, 2006 - 05:18 am
    I am much the richer for my new reading and thinking experiences. Yes, Yes, Yes to all you said, Ms Alliemae !

    I'm going to see if my library can interloan "Art of Birds" .

    hats
    June 14, 2006 - 05:29 am
    I didn't like the title of this poem. I almost passed it by. I did love the questions within the poem.

    Why does the heart of the topaz
    reveal a yellow honeycomb?


    Why does the rose amuse itself
    changing the color of its dreams?


    Why does the emerald shiver
    like a drowned submarine?


    Why does the sky grow pale
    under the june stars?


    Where does the the lizard's tail
    get its supply of fresh paint?
    __________________________________________________________________ I will post more of the poem later.

    I like questions. Too bad I never have the answers. I am partial to the question about the "topaz." The topaz is my birthstone. I have always thought of topaz as a peculiar color between a yellow and orange. I always have loved emeralds. For a long time I didn't understand why switching birthstones is impossible. Birthstones, I guess, are like moles, ears, lips, legs, what you get is yours forever.

    MarjV
    June 14, 2006 - 05:31 am
    I think those wonderful questions are mean to expand our thinking into all manner of new thought corners. I like those poems. Beautiful images to play with.

    hats
    June 14, 2006 - 05:36 am
    MarjV, you are right. Those questions do make us imagine and think. I love it!

    Alliemae
    June 14, 2006 - 05:44 am
    Hats, mine too!!

    hats
    June 14, 2006 - 05:50 am
    Alliemae, I don't believe it! What a coincidence!

    hats
    June 14, 2006 - 05:52 am
    I like thinking of the topaz as a "yellow honeycomb." Don't you, Alliemae? I will always remember that description. This is beginning to sound like it's all about us; It's noooot!

    hats
    June 14, 2006 - 06:50 am
    Where is the underground fire
    that revives the carnattions?


    Where does the salt acquire
    the transparency of its glance?


    Where did the carbon sleep
    that it awoke so dark?


    And where, where does the tiger buy
    its stripes of mourning, its stripes of gold?


    When did the jungle begin
    to be aware of its own perfume?


    When did the pine tree realize
    its own sweet-smelling consequence?
    _____________________________________________________________________

    More tomorrow.

    I love the question about the tiger. it reminds me of the poem written by William Blake, "Tyger, Tyger burning bright." I also have always wondered about the stripes on a Zebra. I think no Zebra's pattern is the same. That's amazing.

    Alliemae
    June 14, 2006 - 09:32 am
    Alliance (Sonata):

    The spying days cross in secret
    but they fall within your voice of light.
    Oh mistress of love, in your rest
    I established my dream, my silent attitude.


    I found this poem evocative in that I begin to wonder if some of his 'love' poetry is not more about his love, Chile...

    I really want to find a book about the history of Chile during the time of Pablo Neruda's writing.

    Oh, I know there was a revolution...and I know a smattering of names such as Allende and Pinochet...but other than that, I'm intriqued now and must know more about Chile's history as it relates to Neruda.

    Thanks, Scrawler, for making me think!

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    June 14, 2006 - 10:29 am
    Alliemae - you could also find that info in a biography of Neruda and also he has written Memoirs ; our lib has a copy of that if I ever get it!!!!!!

    Scrawler
    June 14, 2006 - 10:35 am
    The Clock fallen into the Sea:

    There is so much dark light in space
    and so many dimensions suddenly yellow
    because the wind does not fall
    and the leaves do not breathe.

    It is a Sunday day arrested in the sea,
    a day like a submerged boat,
    a drop of time assaulted by scales
    that are fiercely dressed in transparent dampness.

    There are months seriously accumulated in a vestment
    that we wish to smell weeping with closed eyes,
    and there are years in a single blind sign of water
    deposited and green,
    there is the age that neither fingers not light captured,

    much more praiseworthy than a broken fan,
    much more silent than a disinterred foot,
    there is the nuptial age of the days dissolved
    in a sad tomb traversed by fish.

    The petals of time fall immensely
    like vague umbrellas looking like the sky,
    growing around, it is scarcely
    a bell never seen,
    a flooded rose, a jellyfish, a long
    shattered throbbing:
    but it is not that, it is something that scarcely touches
    and spends,
    a dissipation of perfumes and races.

    The clock that in the field stretched out upon the moss
    and struck a hip with its electric form
    runs rickety and wounded beneath the fearful water
    that ripples palpitating with central currents.

    translated by Donald D. Walsh

    ~ Pablo Neruda

    What wonderful posts. Yes, Neruda's poetry does make you think. Take this poem, I think that it is about the modern ways vs the old ways. When we throw our clocks into the sea we revert back to our old timeless ways. It sounds good to me. Ever think how much we depend on our clocks as we go through our days?

    hats
    June 14, 2006 - 11:40 am
    Alliemae,I see what you are saying and find it fascinating. Neruda is using the love of a woman to portray his love for Chile. Oh, if I have it right, I love that thought.

    Scrawler, I love your thoughts and the poem posted. I especially love these lines.

    There are months seriously accumulated in a vestment
    that we wish to smell weeping with closed eyes,


    Oh, I love this thought. Sometimes we want to recall a special time or person. After the death of my mother, I held her dresses close to me. I could still smell her. It was as if she were not gone. Her presence was left, for a time, in her clothing.

    Thoughts of time are rich with meaning. I suppose because our lives are made up of time. We are time and time is us.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 14, 2006 - 11:49 am
    here is a love sonnet - I wonder if we could use Chile as a substitude for the object of his love in this Sonnet.
    Love Sonnet XI

    I crave your mouth, your voice, your hair.
    Silent and starving, I prowl through the streets.
    Bread does not nourish me, dawn disrupts me, all day
    I hunt for the liquid measure of your steps.

    I hunger for your sleek laugh,
    your hands the color of a savage harvest,
    hunger for the pale stones of your fingernails,
    I want to eat your skin like a whole almond.

    I want to eat the sunbeam flaring in your lovely body,
    the sovereign nose of your arrogant face,
    I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes,

    and I pace around hungry, sniffing the twilight,
    hunting for you, for your hot heart,
    like a puma in the barrens of Quitratue.


    Quitrature Chile

    hats
    June 14, 2006 - 12:07 pm
    Barbara, I love your poem too. I think some of the love poems are about Chile. I don't think all of the poems are about Chile. Pablo Neruda had a great love for his wife. Surely some of these poems are written especially to her and about her.

    Anna,what do you think? I deeply love my husband. If he passed, most of my love poems, if I wrote any, I would write to him.

    Jim in Jeff
    June 14, 2006 - 02:34 pm
    Good forum friends, my apologies for being offline several days. I do miss my daily "cuppa" here. So MANY great posts/thoughts...and poems (Neruda's, Alliemae's, Annafair's, and all you lovely others' poems and thoughts). Is no way I can comment today on all your posts, as reading them inspires me to want to do.

    I also apologize for today posting FOUR poems by Neruda. Would be a better read, I think, if these were SPREAD OUT over several days. But tomorrows...are guaranteed to NONE of us.

    Following are four typical Pablo Neruda's 1959 love sonnets to his wife Matilde, 100 Love Sonnets, aka Cien sonetos de amor, (English translations by Stephen Tapscott).

    If you will, imagine with me: a two-now-one couple in complete tune, in sync, in love, and maybe still cuddling contentedly in early-morning hours in a warm bed.

    Love Sonnet XVII (from "Morning" section)

    ....I do not love you as if you were salt-rose, or topaz,
    or the arrow of carnations the fire shoots off.
    I love you as certain dark things are to be loved,
    in secret, between the shadow and the soul.

    I love you as the plant that never blooms
    but carries in itself the light of hidden flowers;
    thanks to your love a certain solid fragrance,
    risen from the earth, lives darkly in my body.

    I love you without knowing how, or when, or from where.
    I love you straightforwardly, without complexities or pride;
    so I love you because I know no other way

    than this: where I does not exist, nor you,
    so close that your hand on my chest is my hand,
    so close that your eyes close as I fall asleep.

    Jim in Jeff
    June 14, 2006 - 02:36 pm
    This choice was mostly in honor of our current wonderful-weather month, June. Neruda's passion hasn't dimmed a whit...as his day moves from morning to equally-steamy afternoon.

    Love Sonnet XL (from "Afternoon" section)

    ....It was green, the silence; the light was moist;
    the month of June trembled like a butterfly;
    and you, Matilde, passed through noon,
    through the regions of the South, the sea and the stones.

    You went carrying your cargo of iron flowers,
    seaweed battered and abandoned by the South wind,
    but your hands, still white, cracked by corrosive salt,
    gathered the blooming stalks that grew in the sand.

    I love your pure gifts, your skin like whole stones,
    your nails, offerings, in the suns of your fingers,
    your mouth brimming with all joys.

    Oh, in my house beside the abyss, give me
    the tormenting structure of that silence,
    pavillion of the sea, forgotten in the sand.

    Jim in Jeff
    June 14, 2006 - 02:38 pm
    And in evening hours, Neruda's ardor still "waxes eloquent," I think. I also chose this one for those wonderful last three lines.

    Love Sonnet LXIX (from "Evening" section)

    ....Maybe nothingness is to be without your presence,
    without you moving, slicing the noon
    like a blue flower, without you walking
    later through the fog and the cobbles,

    without the light you carry in your hand,
    golden, which maybe others will not see,
    which maybe no one knew was growing
    like the red beginnings of a rose.

    In short, without your presence: without your coming
    suddenly, incitingly, to know my life,
    gust of a rosebush, wheat of wind:

    since then I am because you are,
    since then you are, I am, we are,
    and through love I will be, you will be, we'll be.

    Jim in Jeff
    June 14, 2006 - 02:40 pm
    Neruda's "night" of his and his beloved's day in sonnet XCI seems to me to also be intended as a "type" of our life-spans. It possibly fits into some forum friend's feelings. Does for me, anyways...altho hopefully not quite as "dreary" as Neruda's words to his Lady (about aging) below.

    Love Sonnet XCI (from "Night" section)

    ....Age covers us like drizzle;
    time is interminable and sad;
    a salt feather touches your face;
    a trickle ate through my shirt.

    Time does not distinguish between my hands
    and a flock of oranges in yours:
    with snow and picks life chips away
    at your life, which is my life.

    My life, which I gave you, fills
    with years like a swelling cluster of fruit.
    The grapes will return to the earth.

    And even down there time
    continues, waiting, raining
    on the dust, eager to erase even absence.

    Jim in Jeff
    June 14, 2006 - 03:13 pm
    Aside from their lovely imageries and feelings, I think his sonnets offer many examples of "use of punctuation" in poetry. His line-endings vary... all over the place. To me this indicates his deliberate use of punctuation for purpose/effect. He and Mary Oliver may have read or written...same poetry-techniques textbooks.

    But many gifted poets also often use words, punctuation, and spacings via "seat of pants," rather than technical mechanics. What works...works.

    hats
    June 15, 2006 - 01:03 am
    Jim in Jeff, each poem is deliciously lovely. I know Pablo Neruda would feel wonderful to see his sonnets here written in loving honor of his wife, Matilde. I love his imagery. Alliemae,did you notice PN mentions "topaz?" I couldn't believe it. Amazing, I love "blue flowers" too.

    Obviously, Pablo Neruda's every passing thought was of his wife, Matilde. It makes my heart go pitter patter reading about such an enduring love. He thought of her morning, noon and night. The months also held a memory of her. She was with him in all ways and always. How lovely.

    Thank you so much for sharing these Love Sonnets, Jim. It's happiness just knowing such love still exists and I guess keeps the world going around.

    I hope you will share more of these Love Sonnets with us in the days to come as you have time.

    hats
    June 15, 2006 - 01:09 am
    I know, he didn't love her as "topaz." At least, topaz is mentioned.

    hats
    June 15, 2006 - 01:14 am
    Love Sonnet LXIX (from "Evening" section)

    ....Maybe nothingness is to be without your presence,
    without you moving, slicing the noon
    like a blue flower, without you walking
    later through the fog and the cobbles,


    On each reading these Love Sonnets become more beautiful. I think to Pablo Neruda Matilde was his Chile. He loved Chile because it held her presence. Pablo Neruda saw Matilde in a blue flower, in the fog, while hearing his footsteps on the cobbles of a walkway. Oh my, great love found is the ultimate.

    Pablo Neruda's love for Chile and Matilde are interweaved. To look at Chile apart from Matilde would chance ripping his poetry apart. This, I think, would dishonor Pablo Neruda because he did not mince words about his feelings for Matilde.

    annafair
    June 15, 2006 - 03:31 am
    I posted the poem I chose for today. I have never read a poet whose poems affect me so...Each poet we have shared was intense but Neruda's poems reach some tender spot I have hidden from my own view. His poems hit all my five senses and the sixth mysterious one makes me ache to know the man as well. I need to go to the library today and see if they have a biography of this man and was it Scrawler of MarjV who mentioned his memoirs? That too

    Jim thank you for the love poems and sometimes I hesitate to say how a poem affects me since it is so personal. If I had his power with words each of his poems could have been my poem about my own love. Twelve years later everyone would think I have moved on , my feet know how to move,I can still breathe the air and smell the flowers, the sun still comes up and the rain washes me My heart beats but not for me ..it lies with him ..in Arlington.."Nothingness is to be without you forever" This man Knows LOVE..In all of its facets, all of its shapes, NOTHING is too small for him to love,. His country, the birds,his socks ( and I am glad I can laugh at that because I need that this moment) The few poems by him I had read made me want to read more but I would have been poorer in my reading and understanding without your thoughts to help me. I think I believe that nothing is really by chance ..destiny decided who we would share here this month for I can feel how Neruda;s poems touch you and your own thoughts has opened doors to mine.

    And one last sentence Topaz is my birthstone too.

    Later , anna

    hats
    June 15, 2006 - 04:41 am
    Oh Anna,I can't believe it!!

    annafair
    June 15, 2006 - 05:53 am
    I have tried to make this look like my book...anna Well it didnt do it but imagine the last part is one word starting at the bottom and stairstep fashion arrives at the top part of the poem.There just isnt any poem of his that I can fault in any way.the bottom verse is the beginning and leads to top verse I am running out of superlatives.

    extravagaria 1957-1958

    two wings,
    a violin,
    and so many things,
    incalculable things, things without names,
    a license for a large slow-moving eye,
    the inscription on the nails of the almond tree,
    the titles of the grass in the morning.


    need
    you
    sky
    to
    rise
    to


    Pablo Neruda translated by Alastair Reid

    MarjV
    June 15, 2006 - 08:28 am
    Whew~ so many good poems posted. On this one above - who would think about titles of grass in the morning. Probably I will now when I get up and look out the window first thing.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 15, 2006 - 09:06 am
    OH these two lines
    "a license for a large slow-moving eye,
    the inscription on the nails of the almond tree,
    remind me that we look without really seeing - I think driving may be why we seldom see any longer - we cannot take the time to see even at 30 miles an hour - we must scan the road for balls, children, animals, potholes, things falling from most anywhere as well as, other vehicles backing up or crossing our path - we cannot even take the time to read the license plate of a vehicle directly in front of us. Therefore, with that as our daily practice I notice, while walking, my eye scan what is in my field of vision rather than looking with a "large slow-moving eye."

    We may live in a faster moving time where our life depends on scanning but I realize there are many times I am doing things I did years ago - like walking and I love hanging out the wash and gardening.

    Even shopping, although there are scanners and electronic cash registers and frozen foods with a plithera of canned good as well as exotic fruits and vegetables to choose from I can still look at each pepper and tomato as I did 50 years ago and where I put the canned goods in a basket rather then telling the clerk to get it for me as he climbed his moveable step ladder my list is not really all that different that I cannot slow down and look rather then tossing things in a basket to hurry and get out of the store -

    hmmm maybe that is it - I so [and I seldom use the word hate] but I hate going to the supermarket - I put it off and put it off till I end up buying my dinner at a restaurant because there is nothing in the house - hmmm there are several small grocery stores in Austin that have been there without any change since the 1940s and 50s - that is it - I know enough to know I dislike shopping in the HEB and Randalls much less WalMart or Sams Club so why not just give up - stop complaining in my head and simply shop in these smaller grocery stores that make me feel at peace with my shopping and where I can take the time to look - yes, there will be some added expense but not that much - I am only shopping for one and it will be less than eating out or bringing prepared meals home.

    Wow - thanks Anna for bringing me the message and Thank you Pablo Neruda for saying just the right words to help me make a meaningful change in my life.

    Scrawler
    June 15, 2006 - 09:55 am
    Autumn Returns:

    A day in mourning falls from the bells
    like a trembling vague-widow cloth,
    it is a color, a dream
    of cherries buried in the earth
    it is a tail of smoke that restlessly arrives
    to change the color of the water and the kisses.

    I do not know if I make myself clear: when from on high
    night approaches, when the solitary poet
    at the window hears autumn's steed running
    and the leaves of trampled fear rustle in his arteries,
    there is something over the sky, like the tongue of a thick
    ox, something in the doubt of the sky and the atmosphere.

    Things return to their places
    the indispensable lawyer, the hands, the olive oil.
    the bottles.
    all the traces of life: the beds, above all,
    are filled with a bloody liquid,
    people deposit their confidences in sordid ears,
    assassins go down stairs,
    it is not this, however, but the old gallop,
    the horse of the old autumn that trembles and endures.

    The horse of the old autumn has a red beard
    and the foam of fear covers its cheeks
    and the air that follows it is shaped like an ocean
    and a perfume of vague buried putrefaction.

    Every day down from the sky comes an ashen color
    that doves must spread over the earth:
    the cord that forgetfulness and weeping weve,
    time that has slept long years within the bells
    everything,
    the told tattered suits, teh women who see snow coming,
    the black poppies that no one can look at without dying,
    everything falls into the hands that I lift
    in the midst of the rain.

    ~ translated by Donald D. Walsh ~ Pablo Neruda

    Of all Neruda's poems so far this I think is the most beautiful. I have always loved autumn and I especially like those last to lines of the last stanza: everything falls into the hands that I lift/in the midst of the rain.

    MarjV
    June 15, 2006 - 11:32 am
    Could that poem also have to do with the unrest and military actions in Chile? He speaks of bloody liquid,tail of smoke, fear, etc.so most probably the Spanish Civil War which would have been during this period from what I read.

    hats
    June 15, 2006 - 12:52 pm
    Anna, thank you for posting another Pablo Neruda poem. I have to say along with MarjV the titles of grass is a fascinating thought.

    annafair
    June 15, 2006 - 02:34 pm
    Neruda's poems challenges me ..to understand and then to appreciate his choice of descriptive words ..but the bottom line he is making me think "out of the box" to give up my preconcieved ideas, to look again at the world around me ...to value every thing and every lesson the world offers us. The titles of grass , he is saying PAY ATTENTION Walk dont run through life and and savor each gift God gave us.. whether it is grass, or jewels , or people , or the sea etc you dont need me to elaborate..he has captured for me the essense of life itself, all the nuances , he lets me know that my life did not start in the womb ..but somewhere back in the beginning of time when the first humans met and gave birth.That grass has had a hundred names before it was called grass, Not only have we evolved but the world has as well I cant believe that an oak was always called an oak and was a tiger always called a tiger? His poetry makes me feel GLORIOUSLY OLD and I think for the first time when I look into a mirror I dont just see my face but my first ancestor looking at me..and it is saying let me tell you about my world and suddenly I know who I really am . anna

    MarjV
    June 15, 2006 - 03:34 pm
    Anna:His poetry makes me feel GLORIOUSLY OLD and I think for the first time when I look into a mirror I dont just see my face but my first ancestor looking at me..and it is saying let me tell you about my world and suddenly I know who I really am . anna

    That's a super insight, Ms Anna. His poetry is so challenging - nothing on the surface. So full it barely can be put into words.

    In the movie "Il Postino" the Postman wants to know the meaning of a line of Neruda's poetry he read. And the Neruda character replies that he doesn't want to talk about meanings; he wants to talk about the feelings evoked by the poem.

    Alliemae
    June 15, 2006 - 04:34 pm
    "he doesn't want to talk about meanings; he wants to talk about the feelings evoked by the poem." (MarjV re: Il Postino)

    "I do not know if I make myself clear: when from on high
    night approaches, when the solitary poet
    at the window hears autumn's steed running
    and the leaves of trampled fear rustle in his arteries,"


    and

    The horse of the old autumn has a red beard
    and the foam of fear covers its cheeks
    and the air that follows it is shaped like an ocean
    and a perfume of vague buried putrefaction.


    I don't know what Pablo Neruda meant by this.

    For me, this portion of "Autumn Returns" made me think of death/dying and my own disappointment that I find myself in the autumn of my life (early autumn, I hope!) and that's not really where I want to be right now because all systems have not caught up with each other... especially the 'let go' part...

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 16, 2006 - 07:52 am
    Here the interminable
    ends: here
    all things begin:
    the river's farewell in the ice,
    the marriage of air and the snow.
    The streets and the horses are nowhere:
    only the stone's fabrications
    remain.
    No one lives at the castle,
    the lost apparitions
    have been frightened away
    by the cold and the wind's bitterness:
    it is this
    that gave song to the stone
    and suspended its delicate semblances
    heaved up like a cry or a tune
    and kept mute to the end.
    Only the wind stays,
    the hiss
    in the whip of the South Pole,
    only the white of the emptiness,
    bird-sounds in the rain
    over a castle of solitude.


    For those of us who are getting a taste of hot weather, maybe this poem will cool you off. I have always had an interest in Antarctica. I have always thought of loneliness and Antarctica as one and the same.

    joebabe
    June 16, 2006 - 07:59 am
    "His poetry makes me feel GLORIOUSLY OLD and I think for the first time when I look into a mirror I dont just see my face but my first ancestor looking at me..and it is saying let me tell you about my world and suddenly I know who I really am

    Anna, thank you for this post. It is astounding to me to find someone else who relates to our first ancestor. I thought I was the only one. I have just finished a wonderful book written by Nicholas Wade of the New York Times -- called "Before the Dawn" wherein he reports on the lastest clues to our first ancestor.

    I look forward to becoming active on this thread. I have been looking for a live poetry discussion board for a long time.

    Joe

    hats
    June 16, 2006 - 08:21 am
    Antartica

    MarjV
    June 16, 2006 - 08:21 am
    Ya'all come right on in, Joe!

    Comment on "Antartica" - wind, stones, cold - Neruda so well describes them poetically - there he is giving voice to the stone again.

    Feels good to read a "cold" poem on a warm-humid day. Can't you just feel that wind whipping around.

    hats
    June 16, 2006 - 08:21 am
    Hi Joe, Welcome!

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 16, 2006 - 08:58 am
    Glad you found us Joe - look forward to your posts...

    Such a muggy day my allergies are dancing in my head -

    How poignent these lines --

    that gave song to the stone
    and suspended its delicate semblances
    heaved up like a cry or a tune
    and kept mute to the end.

    Somehow this poem reminds me of People who, like the castle lost their inner light and when they experience a lack of love, like the cold and bitter wind, suspended from within frozen like a stone their song is a cry, a silent cry, that keeps them mute and frozen to this cry to the end. As if protecting themselves and in the process they protect their silent ghost-like castle that is their inner being.

    hats
    June 16, 2006 - 09:44 am
    Barbara, what a wonderful comment. I knew more meaning had to be underneath the cold exterior of the poem. I could only see superficially. Your shovel dug much deeper and came up with nuggets of wisdom.

    Scrawler
    June 16, 2006 - 10:28 am
    Spain in our heart invocation:

    To begin, pause over the pure
    and cleft rose, pause over the source
    of sky and air and earth, the will of a song
    with explosions, the desire
    of an immense song, of metal that will gather
    war and naked blood.

    Spain water glass, not diadem,
    but yes crushed stone, militant tenderness
    of wheat, hide and burning animal.

    ~ Translated by Richard Schaaf ~ Pablo Neruda

    So many great posts. This is sort of a strange poem to me. I'm not at all sure what Neruda means by it, but I can feel the passion he has. As I watch the World Cup I can also see the passion in how the various countries play. We were being told by the newscasters that Spain was an "unachiver" group of athletics, but they came out with passion and won their match while other groups were flat and seemed uninterested.

    MarjV
    June 16, 2006 - 11:21 am
    "Old Women by the Sea" from Book of Vagaries, 1958 (Translator Ben Belitt)

    Old women come to the mysterious sea
    with their withering shawls
    and their fragile feet broken.

    Alone on the beaches they sit
    without shifting their gaze or their hands
    or the clouds or the quietness.

    The ocean's obscenity shatters and slashes,
    descends in a mountain of trumpets,
    shakes a bullock's mustaches.

    The matriarchs sit in their places ,unmoved,
    transparent, like ships on a sea,
    observing the terrorist waves.

    Where do they come from, where go to?
    They move out of corners,
    from the quick of our lives

    The ocean is theirs now,
    the vacancy, freezing and burning,
    the solitude crowded with bonfires.

    They move in the fullness of time
    from the once-fragrant houses
    and the char of the twilight.

    They see and do not see the waters,
    they write signs with their walking sticks,
    and the sea blots their signatures.

    Then the ancients move off
    on frail bird's feet, upraised
    while a runaway surf
    travels naked in the wind.

    I read this poem the first week we started. And have been wanting to post it. I think the images are so vivid. And we are older persons and can resonate with it. That's all I'll attempt to say. There is so much that could be commented upon.

    And here is a more current translation which I do not care for at all that I found online. I hope you will take a few minutes to compare. http://www.motherbird.com/seawomen.html I think Mr Bellit more kept the beauty of the Spanish language and passion.

    ~Marj

    hats
    June 16, 2006 - 01:35 pm
    I love this poem MarjV. I am glad you posted it. For some reason on my first reading I thought about Japanese women. Maybe it's the line "their fragile feet broken." I have my mind on foot binding because of a book I am reading. Maybe I am projecting my reading experience on to this poem.

    After that is said I do relate to the poem and love it because of the age of the women. These women are our age. The women have seen sons and husbands not come back to shore. The water is full of "terrorist waves"for these matriarchs now. I think they are writing the names of their loved ones in the sand. Then after all is said and done, after remembering the past the ocean brings in on waves, they are strong enough to go home strengthened by the same water.

    Then the ancients move off
    on frail bird's feet, upraised
    while a runaway surf
    travels naked in the wind.

    hats
    June 16, 2006 - 01:38 pm
    I like Mr. Belitt's interpretation too.

    Alliemae
    June 16, 2006 - 05:51 pm
    For some reason this reminded me of my grandmother on my mom's side. She came to America from Naples and her 'porch' was her 'beach' I think.

    Alone on the beaches they sit
    without shifting their gaze or their hands
    or the clouds or the quietness.


    and

    The matriarchs sit in their places ,unmoved,
    transparent, like ships on a sea,
    observing the terrorist waves.


    And Elvie sat on her porch...contented with the reality of her life, stoic even...calm, composed, accepting. She was my island...a safe haven from the hustle and bustle of the outside world.

    It was by her side I found peace as a teen.

    Alliemae

    P.S. Welcome Joe!

    P.P.S. Marj, I did compare the translations (something I'm interesting in doing more of with this poet) and like Hats and yourself, I prefer the Ben Belitt translation also.

    MarjV
    June 16, 2006 - 06:00 pm
    That's pretty neat, Alliemae - yes, the porch would have been her "beach" . I love the way we each make a poem our own. Barbara did that too with the "people of the castle". And Hats finding the women are writing the names of lost loves in the sand. Great!!

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 16, 2006 - 08:35 pm
    Been working on “Spain in our heart invocation:” - Yes, I agree Scrawler there is a lot of passion – I just had to pull this poem apart to see what he is saying

    To begin, pause over the pure and cleft rose,
    says to me that the people of Spain pause and include not only the pure or perfect but also the imperfect of cleft – he says rose but I am thinking the rose is a symbol.

    Looking it up in my Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Traditional Symbols by J.C.Cooper, it is a symbol of the mystery of life, beauty, grace, sorrow, the heart-centered life, happiness, passions, sensuality and seduction. The Rose is the control point of the cross, the point of unity, love, life, creation, fertility, virginity, death, mortality and sorrow. Its thorns signify pain, blood and martyrdom. The Rose typifies silence and secrecy sub rosa The thorns are the sins of the Fall.

    The symbol of a Rose is the pure and the cleft, which I think he is referring to the people themselves as well as, their behavior and the history and landscape of Spain. All is filled with purity as well as the penetrating split that cleaves a path through the mystery of life.

    pause over the source of sky and air and earth,
    The source of sky, air and earth is so all encompassing it must mean God.

    With commas it would be like repeating [pause over] - the will of a song with explosions,
    Yes, you get that when people use their voice, the voice from their heart explodes just as the blossoms explode singing in the Spring - in fact, all of life explodes with its song saying 'here I am and this matters.'

    the desire of an immense song,
    Ah yes, Spain wanted to include most of the world in its song – Spain tried to control European nations by marriage – Spain controlled South and Central America and half of North America with its song of conquest bringing its view of God and culture to the areas of the world it penetrated.

    [pause over] of metal that will gather war and naked blood.
    Physical metal but also the base metal of a man’s honor and courage worked with to attain enlightenment. – young boys crossing a river naked by night and by stealth to get into the rich man’s cattle ranch to fight the forbidden bull – guessing the shape of the beast, feeling its warmly aggressive body, learning to distinguish form, the movements and the quirks of their opponent, the bull.

    King Solomon’s sward is made in Toledo - Cádiz, began as the result of the ancient metal trade – the Moors brought their use of Copper to Southern Spain -

    Spain went to war to bring their enlightenment to those they attempted to conquer as well as, at times receive enlightenment, drawing the blood of both victim and warrior. – Examples: the inquisition - the martyred priest who brought the gospel to the New World and the soldiers who brought death and destruction to the natives of the New World. – the battles over hundreds of years between Christians and Moslems in Castile and Leon starting in 844 – the Wars of Castile, Aragon, Navarra, Granada 1400-1516 – The Dutch Revolt – Portuguese succession – the Moroccan siege – Cuban Independence – Spanish American War – Spanish Civil War

    Spain water glass, not diadem,
    Spain as [glass symbolically is:] God’s Container [water symbolically is:] holding the flux of the manifest world with the sap of life as opposed to the [diadem is:] crown. [Symbolically: sovereignty, victory, honour, dignity, reward, the highest attainment, dedication, endless duration.]

    All water symbolizes the great mother, the liquid counterpart of light. – As Carlos Fuentes explains in The Buried Mirror the original mother figures of Spain are: the La Dama de Baza, who remained buried but not forgotten for 24 centuries and is the Earth Goddess of Spain sitting on her armchair, holding a dove, dressed in flowing robes, her ringed hands a symbol of maternal authority. Next to her is the temptress, la Dam de Elche, breaking her Greek influence of purity with Oriental ornaments, "headdress wearing the first Mantilla, she wears enormous disks that cover her ears like a primitive headset, which communicate to her the music of a region that only she understands. She is deaf to moral platitudes. She is erotically a perverse maiden, voluptuous love, priestess, virgin and temptress."

    With the advent of Christianity, Spain embraced the culture of Mary the Virgin Mother – during Holy Week in Seville over 50 images of the Virgin Mary move in Procession through the nights carried by barefoot penitent, the floating temples with hundreds of lit candles hold the statue which is crowned in gold, with razor sharp rays and she hugs dead roses. Her cape is solid ornamentation of ivory and precious stones.

    All those following the procession call out "Guapa, guapa," meaning beautiful, gorgeous, and best expressed by the Gypsy song that says, "The Child Jesus is lost, his Mother is looking for him, She finds him by the side of the river, having fun with the Gypsies."

    The song of the Gypsy is the deep song, "The river of voices" to quote Garcia Lorca. The Flamenco dance is a dance to the moon revolving around the song, which is the center of the solar system. The song, like the Arab call to prayer, transforms all so that their deepest urge will be fulfilled. Fuentes explains, "Tragic destiny takes over and words start to lose their everyday shape, becoming in effect a river of song, a mere verbal fountainhead of the most inexpressible emotions. The flamenco translates its form into a cry – not beneath but above the words, when words are not enough."

    but yes crushed stone,
    Among the symbolism of stone is: primitive stones giving birth to people and have a life-giving potency or people can be turned to sacred stones. Crushed stone, aggregates are produced from many natural deposits.

    militant tenderness of wheat,
    In the Greek Mysteries sheaves of corn or wheat symbolize the fertility of the earth, awakening life, life springing from death, germination and growth through solar power, abundance. The bread of the Eucharist, the body of Christ, the godly.

    hide and burning animal.
    Animal symbolizes: instinctual life, fertility and teeming life, the instinctual and emotional urges that must be transcended before man can enter the spiritual realms. Porphyry says "We can find no animal without some likeness to man."

    Burning is passing from one state to another, the medium for conveying messages or offerings heavenward. And like the matador, who is the prince of the people, who, with a precise set of rules can kill the animal because he exposes himself to death, as Fuentes says, "is a tragic representation of man’s relation to nature, the actor in ceremony of remembrance of our violent survival at the expense of nature. We cannot refuse eh exploitation of nature, because it is the condition of our survival. The men and women who painted the animals in the cave of Altamira already knew that."

    MarjV
    June 17, 2006 - 05:37 am
    And that poem is titled "Invocation". And was written while he was in Spain when the Spanish Civil War was going . And 'invocation' being a plea, a prayer, a petition for help.

    Alliemae
    June 17, 2006 - 05:40 am
    Hats, I so enjoy your tender insights to the poetry we read.

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 17, 2006 - 05:49 am
    Alliemae, I love your insights too. You help to make the Poetry Corner special.

    Alliemae
    June 17, 2006 - 05:52 am
    Yes, like you Scrawler, I didn't get the specific meaning but do feel the passion in it and as MarjV reminds us, "that poem is titled "Invocation". And was written while he was in Spain when the Spanish Civil War was going." No wonder if was filled with passion.

    I always feel that Pablo Neruda's passion is so pure it cannot help but resonate within us.

    Barbara Thank you for your detailed analysis. Being a Saggitarius I frequently miss detail as I see pictures by 'whole' impressions and unfortunately miss many details. I'm glad you went into this line by line, so to speak. Very interesting addition.

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    June 17, 2006 - 09:33 am
    Tradition:

    In the nights of Spain, through the old gardens,
    tradition, covered with dead snot,
    spouting pus, and pestilence, strolled
    with its tail in the fog, ghostly and fantastic
    dresed in asthma and bloody hollow frock coats,
    and its face with sunken staring eyes
    was green slugs eating graves,
    and its toothless mouth each night bit
    and unborn flower, the secret mineral,
    and it passed with its crown of green thistles
    sowing vague deadmen's bones and daggers.

    ~ translated by Richard Schaaf ~ Pablo Neruda

    Thank you one and all for your wonderful posts. All I can say about this one is: Wow! I wonder how many people would fight if images like these were seen on such a daily basis. We are so lucky here in America that except for images left from the American Civil War and Pearl Harbor for the most part we have been untouched by war in our own backyard. What our soldiers bring with them when they return from foreign wars is an entirely different story. Sometimes those images - those they imagine based on their reality are more dificult to endure.

    hats
    June 17, 2006 - 10:49 am
    Scrawler, I have nothing to add. Pablo Neruda draws a vivid description of war.

    Alliemae
    June 17, 2006 - 12:14 pm
    Ode to the Book-(just a portion)

    No book has been able
    to wrap me in paper,
    to fill me up
    with typography,
    with heavenly imprints
    or was ever able
    to bind my eyes,
    I come out of books to people orchards
    with the hoarse family of my song,
    to work the burning metals
    or to eat smoked beef
    by mountain firesides.
    I love adventurous
    books,
    books of forest or snow,
    depth or sky
    but hate
    the spider book
    in which thought
    has laid poisonous wires
    to trap the juvenile
    and circling fly.
    Book, let me go.
    I won't go clothed
    in volumes,
    I don't come out
    of collected works,
    my poems
    have not eaten poems--
    they devour
    exciting happenings,
    feed on rough weather,
    and dig their food
    out of earth and men.

    I'm on my way
    with dust in my shoes
    free of mythology:
    send books back to their shelves,
    I'm going down into the streets.
    I learned about life
    from life itself,
    love I learned in a single kiss
    and could teach no one anything
    except that I have lived
    with something in common among men,
    when fighting with them,
    when saying all their say in my song.


    NB: (the bold face and underlining are mine...lines that particularly appealed to me. I tried to see where in Neruda's career this was written but couldn't find it on the web. The only book I saw was compiled and published by someone else in 1990.)

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    June 17, 2006 - 01:14 pm
    I just found - Neruda wrote the three ode books between 1952-1957: Elemental Odes, New Elemental Odes and Third Book of Odes. He lived in Chile from the mid-50s on.

    You can read more about these here: http://www.espanole.org/neruda.html

    MarjV
    June 17, 2006 - 01:17 pm
    Eeeeeek I say to that "Traditions" poem, Anne. What a multitude of horror adjectives!

    MarjV
    June 17, 2006 - 03:15 pm
    I was going to save this quote til the last day but I might lose the website.....I think we have already tasted what Mr Hirsch writes abouto Neruda.

    Neruda remains an immense presence in poetry. His work contained multitudes, like his beloved predecessor Walt Whitman. He was a poet of freedom and the sea, a wondrous love poet, the singer of an endlessly proliferating nature, a necessary voice of social consciousness. His work is radiantly impure and obstinately humane. In his Memoirs, Neruda asserts:

    "Poetry is a deep inner calling in man; from it came liturgy, the psalms, and also the content of religions. The poet confronted nature's phenomena and in the early ages called himself a priest, to safeguard his vocation . . . . Today's social poet is still a member of the earliest order of priests. In the old days he made his pact with the darkness, and now he must interpret the light."


    Edward Hirsch, one of five North American recipients of Chile's Presidential Medal of Honor for his contributions to understanding the work of Neruda, writes the weekly "Poet's Choice" column for Book World.

    © 2004 The Washington Post Company Sunday, July 11, 2004; Page BW08

    Alliemae
    June 17, 2006 - 03:43 pm
    A marvelous quote about a marvelous poet!

    Also, thanks Marj for the link about the 'Odes'...

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 17, 2006 - 06:37 pm
    (as seen in MarjV's link in post #1122)

    I wonder how much this sad and haunting event had to do with the way he spoke so lovingly of the woman in his life...and how much it influenced his relationship with his wife and his attitude toward love itself...I would imagine a lot.

    He also seemed to idealize the woman he loved, even though he sort of denied seeing and loving only the perfection in her. I wonder if losing his mother as an infant was reflected in that idealization also...

    Alliemae

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 17, 2006 - 09:58 pm
    Alliemae we can only guess - he may be just a sweet man who is able to go deep into his emotions and at the same time realize that life is about making love rather than waiting to receive it and those who you love are meant to be built up like a kid, with all the enthusiasm and intensity flying high a kite.

    hats
    June 18, 2006 - 02:47 am
    Golly, all of the posts are so wonderful. I think Pablo Neruda will leave a lasting impression with us. I would love to read his memoirs one day.

    MarjV
    June 18, 2006 - 05:10 am
    See if your library has it, Hats. Mine does - if they ever get it to me!

    hats
    June 18, 2006 - 05:31 am
    MarjV, I will definitely check. I enjoyed your post very much.

    Alliemae
    June 18, 2006 - 05:32 am
    'By Barbara'...I think you've got it!! And I loved the analogy about "flying high the kite"...

    "and those who you love are meant to be built up like a kid, with all the enthusiasm and intensity flying high a kite."

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    June 18, 2006 - 06:12 am
    Something different in the "Books" poem catches my eye and heart each time I've looked at it.

    annafair
    June 18, 2006 - 06:57 am
    I have read them all and made notes First to Barbara I always pay attention to your thoughtful and thorough explanations they open other doors to understanding ..MarjV and your added comments always help to "see" a poem so well, Alliemae I agree with you Hats lends her tender insight to all of our poems and Alliemae a porch as a beach ..that was such a wonderful thought, It reminded me of the summers on the green vined covered porch of my childhood where I made a wish on the first star of the evening and and watched fireflies like stars in our front yard. MARJ I love your "last quote" but knowing you there will be another equally good, When we talk about the poetry of Neruda and his time in Spain and his description of the horror of war it makes you realize while the solders who saw such terrible things can really never discuss them recently a service man fron WWII was being interviewed and the mewscaster asked several times if he could describe what he saw. I watched the mans face as his mind returned to that time and his response was I dont think I can go there , The newscaster prodded but with tears in his eyes the man said No I cant .

    Now to the poem I want to share today ..I love it because he warns that this is a love song and his silliness begins ..I can see him writing this with a joy heart , He is glad to write this and admits that some of the comparisons he is making are silly but delights in the writing..Made me feel joy as well, anna

    from THE YELLOW HEART
    1971-1972


    LOVE SONG


    I love you, I love you, is my song
    and here my silliness begins.


    I love you , I love you my lung,
    I love you , I love you my wild grapevine,
    and if love is like wine:
    you are my predilection
    from your hands to your feet:
    you are the wineglass of hereafter
    and my bottle of destiny.


    I love you forwards and backwards,
    and I don’t have the tone or timbre
    to sing you my song,
    my endless song.


    On my violin that sings out of tune
    my violin declares,
    I love you, I love you my double bass,
    my sweet woman , dark and clear,
    my heart, my teeth,
    my light and my spoon,
    my salt of the dim week,
    my clear windowpane moon.


    Pablo Neruda translated by William O’Daly

    joebabe
    June 18, 2006 - 08:09 am
    What a wonderful site this is. I am so glad I found it. And such interesting and insightful comments. This is my first post.

    Does anyone else see a similarity in style between Neruda and Walt Whitman?

    "O you singer solitary, singing by yourself, projecting me, O solitary me listening, never more shall I cease perpetuating you,

    Whitman

    "Oh flesh, my own flesh, woman whom I loved and lost, I summon you in the moist hour, I raise my song to you" Neruda

    I don't mean the context. I mean the style. Of course it's difficult in a translation to distinguish between the style of the poet and the style of translator. But I, for one, think there is a definite similarity between these two giants.

    Joe

    MarjV
    June 18, 2006 - 08:37 am
    Joe brings up a point that Hirsch declared in that previous article. That's a good example of the two poets I think..I've not read Whitman much at all.

    Here's a web article that goes into some comparison of Whitman and Neruda. Scroll down and you can see Literary Influences and Themes. I think this is a Emory student paper

    http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Neruda.html

    There is even a book listed in the bib. Nolan, James. Poet-Chief: The Native American Poetics of Walt Whitman and Pablo Neruda. University of New Mexico, 1994

    Scrawler
    June 18, 2006 - 08:52 am
    Solemn is the triumph of the people
    At its great victorious passage
    the eyeless potato and the heavenly
    grape glitter in the earth.

    ~ translated by Richard Schaaf

    ~ Pablo Neruda

    So many great posts! I can see Walt Whitman in some of Neruda poetry and yet there is a great difference not only in that these poets were decades apart, but in their style of writing. But yes there is differently a similarity in the use of their imagery. Take this short piece. I can understand the use of Solemn because he was wise and one needs wisdom when we triumph, but the use of "potatoe and grape" alludes me.

    annafair
    June 18, 2006 - 09:42 am
    First Let me welcome Joe .who found us I think by researching the web and who is part of a group that meets in NYC and he leads a poetry discussion there Correct me if I am wrong Joe but when I checked the link I think it said you were part of an Elderhostel program In any case we welcome you ..and hope to see you as we share a new poet each month I tell you and remind all that this in not MY discussion but OURS and you can post a poem from any poet at any time for whatever reason..You can even post one of your own.Sometimes when we read poetry we come across one we need to share..we need to say how it affects us and ask how it affects the others. Now I have been mulling over Triumph:


    Solemn is the triumph of the people
    At its great victorious passage
    the eyeless potato and the heavenly
    grape glitter in the earth.


    Neruda often refers to nature and this came to my mind when reading the last part. Whenver we moved, if possible I always had a small garden. First because I was fascinated by seeing a seed I planted grow to a bush of green beans or tomato plant with enough tomatoes for my family to enjoy. Second because I wanted my children to see how planting a small seed and watching it become a full grown plant capable of feeding our family. The first time I purchased seed potatoes ( eyes, the are the beginning of the finished plant) I was surprised when it was time to harvest the potatoes to see them smooth and eyeless A triumph, a successful event And the grapes that came each year on the vines my father had planted on the grape arbor in our back yard ..They glittered , enticed us to eat them before fully ripe ( and gave us a stomach ache) To me he is telling us we have large triumphs but small ones are equally important.. Now I ask does anyone see any sense in my post? Why ? if so or if not? anna

    hats
    June 18, 2006 - 10:33 am
    Anna, I do see what you are saying. I also see the same interpretation. If we are wrong, we are both wrong. I do admit to not seeing anything until after reading your post.

    hats
    June 18, 2006 - 10:51 am
    Close to me with your habits
    with your color and your guitar
    just as countries unite
    in schoolroom lectures
    and two regions become blurred
    and there is a river near a river
    and two volcanoes grow together.


    In a way, this part of "Integrations" reminds me of Walt Whitman. I think Walt Whitman chose to see a oneness or unity in the world of mankind.

    I like the way Pablo Neruda describes loving unity in this poem: the blurring of regions, etc. It is what we look for in different relationships, the ability to blend "habits." Also, at times, the ability to blend our explosive differences, "two volcanoes grow together."

    Integrations is translated by William O'Daly.

    hats
    June 18, 2006 - 11:05 am
    Love Song by Pablo Neruda

    you are the wineglass of hereafter
    and my bottle of destiny.


    I think Anna also posted this poem. These two lines speak to me. How wonderful to find someone who is the totality of what you ever hope to find in this life and in the life to come. This meeting in a marriage, in a friendship, by lovers is got to be a treasure not uncovered or found everyday.

    annafair
    June 18, 2006 - 11:59 am
    You would like to read a poem I wrote some time ago about my father here is the link....hope you all have happy ,memories ..anna

    http://www.vgreene.com/poetry/fathersday.htm

    hats
    June 18, 2006 - 12:30 pm
    What a lovely poem you have shared with us on Father's Day. You had a great father. Your memories awakened my memories of my father whom I continue to miss everyday. I also think of my husband. He is a wonderful father to my sons.

    Your poem is special because it awakened in me parts of a happy past and a blessed present. Thank you for sharing your memories.

    MarjV
    June 18, 2006 - 01:37 pm
    on "Triumph"

    I was attempting to write earlier and just deleted . Anna, That was more to the point than I was getting. Anway, I like that thought. Most of my triumphs are potato eyes and grapes.

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 03:06 am
    This poem is both humorous and sad. Do we ever fully know ourselves? I don't fully know me. Somedays it's like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. I do something so out of character and I wonder, "did I say or do that?" Where in the world did my mind go? I suppose seeing the total me, learning all about me will continue until the last day of my life.

    When everything seems to be set
    to show me off as intelligent.
    the fool I always keep hidden
    takes over all that I say.


    At other times, I'm asleep
    among distingushed pople,
    and when I look for my brave self,
    a coward unknown to me
    rushes to cover my skeleton
    with a thousand fine excuses.


    When a decent house catches fire,
    instead of the fireman I summon,
    an arsonist bursts on the scene,
    and that's me. What can I do?
    What can I do to distingush myself?
    How can I pull myself together.


    Translated by Alastair Reid

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 04:56 am
    All the books I read
    are full of dazzling heroes,
    always sure of themselves.
    I die with envy of them;
    and in films full of wind and bullets,
    I goggle at the cowboys,
    I even admire the horses.


    But when I call for a hero,
    out comes my lazy old self;
    so I never know who I am,
    nor how many I am or will be.
    I'd love to be able to touch a bell
    and summon the real me,
    because if I really need myself,
    I mustn't disappear.


    I think all of us have that feeling of wanting to appear brave and strong everytime we meet a bear in life.

    Alliemae
    June 19, 2006 - 06:04 am
    WHEW! What a relief!!

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 06:26 am

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 06:38 am
    While I am writing, I'm far away;
    and when I come back, I've gone.
    I would like to know if others
    go through the same things that I do,
    have as many selves as I have,
    and see themselves similarly;
    and when I've exhausted this problem,
    I'm going to study so hard
    that when I explain myself,
    I'll be talking geography.


    This is the end of the poem translated by Pablo Neruda

    Alliemae
    June 19, 2006 - 06:46 am
    "that when I explain myself,
    I'll be talking geography."

    Wow...this man could have been my twin!
    Or, anyone's?????

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 06:49 am
    Alliemae, I know! Don't you just love it? He knows our innermost feelings.

    Alliemae
    June 19, 2006 - 06:56 am
    Yesterday I decided to read and re-read some of the poems since Seamus Heaney which is when I 'discovered' this group and into some of Henry Lawson, our next poet, and I found a lovely poem in which I felt a transition between the two men, Neruda and Lawson...

    Memories

    In Memoriam M.K.H., 1911-1984

    When all the others were away at Mass
    I was all hers as we peeled potatoes.
    They broke the silence, let fall one by one
    Like solder weeping off the soldering iron:
    Cold comforts set between us, things to share
    Gleaming in a bucket of clean water.
    And again let fall. Little pleasant splashes
    From each other's work would bring us to our senses.
    So while the parish priest at her bedside
    Went hammer and tongs at the prayers for the dying
    And some were responding and some crying
    I remembered her head bent towards my head,
    Her breath in mine, our fluent dipping knives--
    Never closer the whole rest of our lives.

    Seamus Heaney

    This may be, if not THE most beautiful love poem I've ever read, then at least one of, and for me it was also quite possibly a dear and most tender segue...

    I can't wait for Henry Lawson!!

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 07:07 am
    Alliemae, this is my favorite, I think, Seamus Heaney's poem. I love it.

    joebabe
    June 19, 2006 - 07:52 am
    In Canto XII from "the Heights of Macchu Picchu, he stands on that ancient Peruvian mountain site and speaks to his ancestor and says:

    "Look at me from the depths of the earth, tiller of fields, weaver, reticent shepherd, groom of totemic guanacos, mason high on your treacherous scaffolding, iceman of Andean tears, jeweler with crushed fingers, farmer anxious among his seedlings, potter wasted among his clays -- bring to the cup of this new life your ancient buried sorrows"

    he goes on like this for several stanzas and ends:

    "... give me the silence, give me water, hope. Give me the struggle, the iron, the volcanoes. Let bodies cling like magnets to my body. Come quickly to my veins and to my mouth. Speak through my speech, and through my blood."

    This gets to me, because I often find myself trying to connect with those who went before me. Neruda is so like Whitman, but he is more restrained and more likely to stick to one subject.

    I'm so glad this site turned me on to Neruda.

    Joe

    MarjV
    June 19, 2006 - 08:10 am
    "We are Many". Oh so true. Hats. Made me laugh. All the interesting and dull facets we have; happy and sad; angry and joyous , ugly and beautiful! And I also am surprised.

    I just love that memoir of Heaney's mother, Alliemae. Thanks for reposting it. It feels comfortable now that I've read it many times.

    MarjV
    June 19, 2006 - 08:14 am
    Yes, Joe , he is marvelous. I think his poems are well posted as paragraphs. Almost easier to read them when strung down the page.

    I'm waiting for the book from the library The Heights of Macchu Picchu . It has the poem and photos.

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 08:34 am
    Joe, I am enjoying your posts very much. The lines you posted just sent shivers through me. I am also learning the similarities and differences between Whitman and Neruda. Thank you for sharing.

    Scrawler
    June 19, 2006 - 09:40 am
    The Heights of Macchu Picchu:

    Being like maize grains fell
    in the inexhaustible store of lost deeds, shoddy
    occurrences, from nine to five, to six
    and not one death but many came to each,
    each day a little death: dust, maggot, lamp,
    drenched in the mire of suburbs, a little death with fat wings
    entered into each man like a short blade
    and siege was laid to him by bread or knife:
    the drover, the son of harbors, the dark captain of plows,
    the rodent wanderer though dense streets:

    all of them weakened waiting for their death, their brief and
    daily death -
    and their ominous dwindling each day
    was like a black cup they trembled while they drained.

    translated Nathaniel Tarn ~ Pablo Neruda

    I was thinking about the missing Iraq soldiers today and my book just opened to this page so I posted it today.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 19, 2006 - 09:56 am
    Wow! is all I can say - there is a tingling while I read the poems everyone is sharing - I do not know about courage and brave to meet a bear Hats but at least the courage and bravery to do what I know I should be doing. Where as somedays the whole day slips by with nothing to show for it except napping or sitting in a stupor trying to get myself to move and do what I know I should - those days I do not even do any of the things I would like to do, as if punishment for not doing what I should do - oh yes, those are the days I wonder who is this person who entered my body...

    I read of all these proverbs about the water will not flow till you prime the pump - Action always generates inspiration. Inspiration seldom generates action. - You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. Well how do your find the club or how do you get action going to prime the pump on days when you cannot seem to move? I guess like Pablo Neruda we write a poem about admiring heros and doers while we question ourselves...

    The Heights of Macchu Picchu sounds like a wonderful prayer - it reminds me of this; "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks. Then the doing of your work shall be no miracle, but you shall be the miracle." written by Phillips Brooks a US Episcopal bishop

    And today I get to play "me too" I had what I thought was a great post about Triumph but the gods must have decided it should not go forth because whatever happened and it disappeared into cyberspace...when that happens I am to discouraged to write another. ah so - maybe it is a bit more of that prime that I am missing that allows me to prime the pump

    annafair
    June 19, 2006 - 11:46 am
    Each poem shared. each thought, each small revelation of yourselves touches me and like all I too wonder WHO AM I? all the bits and pieces that make up the whole and I often look back and say DID I REALLY DO THAT? Have I really lived so many places, seen so many faces? Sometimes I have trouble recognizing the who I am And when I write a poem that seems to come from left field and I wonder which me wrote that ? I have no poem to share this minute LOL seems there is ALWAYS something that keeps me from doing what I WANT TO do Since my hearing is poor as I have mentioned I have waited to hear the phone or doorbell ring to let in the plumber who hopefully can unstop my kitchen sink and stop the leak under the same..When that is done I HAVE to CLEAN the place up!

    And while I will reluctantly take leave of Neruda His book will be by my bedside and I too am looking forward to Henry Lawson and ALL the poets waiting their turn ..You have made me rich beyond mere worldly things and the poets we have studied ..how I wish I could have heard them read thier works ..William and Mary U is near and s friend took me to hear Billy Collins read some of his poetry there. Amazing and if I havent said this before POETRY really needs to be read out loud..IF you arent doing that TRY it You only need yourself and a poem ..Often I have to puzzle over a poem when I just read silently to myself but when I read it aloud it is like adding music to the words and suddenly I not only know what the poet wrote but I KNEW what feelings inspired the poem ..when my sink is working and my kitchen safe to eat in I will return love you all. anna

    annafair
    June 19, 2006 - 12:34 pm
    Often I save a poem in my computer so I can return to it and allow its words and thoughts flow over me Since Walt Whitman has been mentioned as a poet Neruda admired here is a poem by WW that has been in my computer for quite awhile anna

    Give me the Splendid, Silent Sun


    GIVE me the splendid silent sun, with all his beams full-dazzling;
    Give me juicy autumnal fruit, ripe and red from the orchard;
    Give me a field where the unmow’d grass grows;
    Give me an arbor, give me the trellis’d grape;
    Give me fresh corn and wheat—give me serene-moving animals, teaching content;
    Give me nights perfectly quiet, as on high plateaus west of the Mississippi, and I looking up at the stars;
    Give me odors at sunrise a garden of beautiful flowers, where I can walk undisturb’d;
    Give me for marriage a sweet-breath’d woman, of whom I should never tire;
    Give me a perfect child—give me, away, aside from the noise of the world, a rural, domestic life;
    Give me to warble spontaneous songs, reliev’d, recluse by myself, for my own ears only;
    Give me solitude—give me Nature—give me again, O Nature, your primal sanities!
    —These, demanding to have them, (tired with ceaseless excitement, and rack’d by the war-strife;)
    These to procure, incessantly asking, rising in cries from my heart
    , While yet incessantly asking, still I adhere to my city;
    Day upon day, and year upon year, O city, walking your streets,
    Where you hold me enchain’d a certain time, refusing to give me up;
    Yet giving to make me glutted, enrich’d of soul—you give me forever faces;
    (O I see what I sought to escape, confronting, reversing my cries;
    I see my own soul trampling down what it ask’d for.)




    Walt Whitman

    Still waiting for the plumber

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 12:39 pm
    Anna, Now I want to read Walt Whitman. I love this one you have posted. I don't remember reading or seeing this one. Thanks!

    Plumber, hurry up! The day is almost gone. Plumbers do work late. Maybe he will come along soon.

    MarjV
    June 19, 2006 - 12:48 pm
    Whitman's passion and plea in that poem Anna posted do remind me of Neruda.

    We can raise of chorus of "Come, Plumber, Come"! LOL

    MarjV
    June 19, 2006 - 01:08 pm
    I wondered about the darkness I can feel in Neruda's work. And I thought perhaps he suffered with depression, I keep running across studies such as the one quote below. TElls us again how Neruda could feel. Even the fact that he started at such a young age, 13, with a psuedonym in response to his father's thumbs down on poetry writing would have an influence.

    Even in times of great happiness, however, Neruda tended to slip dark imagery into his poetry. Indeed, read in a different light, even his love poems can be seen as a subtle but powerful cry against life’s tragedies. Neruda’s periods of happiness were interspersed with times of extreme depression, which often resurfaced during his travels in Europe and Asia. Neruda was often forced by politics or financial troubles to abandon his friends, his country, and even his wives; in such times the passion he had reserved for these loves often turned inward and resulted in a gnawing loneliness. The dark undertones in Neruda’s daily life also surfaced in his work. Just as he often published collections of love poems in times of joy, he sometimes composed “material” poems to exercise his affinity for the macabre. Residence on Earth (1935) is one example of a collection detailing the sinister energy Neruda was able to derive from everyday objects.

    The ups and downs in Neruda’s personal life led him to seek out and attempt to describe the essence of life. It was in this quest for understanding and oneness that he most closely resembled, and sometimes mimicked, Whitman. Like much of Whitman’s own work, many of Neruda’s poems, such as those found in his General Study (1950), were an attempt to discover and explain truths across separate themes. Such works tended to combine nature with nation, with history, and with freedom. Paradoxically, Neruda was also able to capture the intrinsic value inherent in plants, animals, and simple objects without unduly coloring the odes with emotion. His Elementary Odes (1954) also followed Whitman’s lead, and were heralded for their insightful brand of simplicity. Neruda’s greatest literary success was his ability to approach the grandiose and the minute, the tragic and the joyous, with equal patience and reverence.

    MarjV
    June 19, 2006 - 01:16 pm
    In my book of collected poems I came across one title "Father". It is long and not on the internet so I'll only post a few lines. He father was in reality a railway worker.

    The brusque father comes back from from his trains; we could pick out his train whistle cutting the rain, a locomotive's nocturnal lament, an unplacable howl in the dark. Later, the door started trembling. Wind entered in gusts with my father; and between the two advents, foofalls and tensions, the house staggered, a panic of doorways exploded with a dry sound of pistols, stairs groaned and a shrill voice nagged hatefully on in the turbulent rain.

    And so goes the poem. Hope you have it in your bookks.

    Sort of reminded me of Heaney's portraits of his father.

    hats
    June 19, 2006 - 01:28 pm
    MarjV, thank you for your post about Pablo Neruda's inner life. I am sure he did suffer much depression. While looking at "Il Postina," I thought about his politics. I thought about his exile to Italy and longing to return to Chile. I think it is only fair to address the whole character of the man, not making him seem one dimensional. He was very complicated.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 19, 2006 - 03:26 pm
    Well Anna is waiting for a plumber and it looks like I am waiting to see how much it will cost to have my vehicle repaired - I was off to the store and it started to vibrate at the red light - I decided to turn around for home since it was difficult to get it to drive in gear - my mistake was only going 3 blocks and a quiet side street I pulled under a tree and turned off the engine thinking if I started it anew the car would be OK - but no - now it all came on as it should - no dials or red lights in the wrong place but when I put it in gear it just would not go.

    Wouldn't you know I left my cell home to be recharged - thank goodness I had my tennis shoes with clean sox in the trunk of the car - I started to walk the 18 blocks home when I only had gone 3 blocks and low and behold a taxi was letting someone off - and so I spent $7 to get home - grabbed my cell and walked the three blocks to the station where I get my gas and where they have a good auto repair service. And so they must go and pick up the car and glory only knows what the cost will be for all of this - and of course the warranty was over last Fall - and of course I did not pay the extra for an extension. Sheesh.

    annafair
    June 19, 2006 - 04:14 pm
    Left at 6 with my stopped up pipes now open , with a complete new drain pipes under the sink ..lovely white pvc ..and no leak for a change, a rooter ( what are those dratted things called ?) I can see it in my mind but cant read it! anyway the plumber sent it down as far as he could and that meant the pipes are CLEAN ..and guaranteed for 90 days ..he even cleaned the mess up ! We wont talk about the cost but it good I dont eat a lot!

    Since everyone seems to be interested in Whitman I think we should do him in September I dont want to change the schedule since I am hoping some of our Australian friends will share thier favorite poems and it has been awhile since I have read Millay and one of her poems is the first poem I memorized.And that goes back further than I am going to admit to. When we do Whitman it might be interesting if we also remember a Neruda poem that it sort of feels familiar.

    I am not surprised Neruda was depressed. I get depressed but even when I am I can be lifted by the wonder of simple things . We all live lives of who said "quiet desperation" Well I looked it up Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.

    Henry David Thoreau (1817 - 1862) American Author

    However I feel Neruda sang his song and hope that all of us do the same..If I wished I could write a book about all the things that were wrong in my life but I prefer to sing about the many many things that were right..I think Neruda had reason to be depressed as I think most people have a reason .to be depressed but then I read about those whose reasons were so real, so terrible and they sang thier song..

    If you knew how much I miss conversation because my hearing loss does not get better you would understand HOW VERY MUCH I appreciate our conversations here .

    Barbara I will be thinking of you and hoping that your car repair will be something simple and you will be happily surprised ..And for all of you I hope each day finds something special so you can say THIS WAS A GOOD DAY ..being here with you makes every a day a good day to me....anna

    Alliemae
    June 19, 2006 - 07:35 pm
    Oops...guess I should have read the posts after the posting of the poem...I didn't know it was for Seamus's mother, but a love poem...thanks for pointing that out to me, Marj.

    Hats, I'm glad you posted it originally! I still think the poem is very beautiful and, out of context, very loverly...

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 19, 2006 - 08:15 pm
    Just love the combinations he uses here - the words and images they bring with them are a joy for me to read - I hope y'all like this one as much as I do...

    You sing, and your voice peels... by Pablo Neruda

    You sing, and your voice peels the husk
    of the day's grain, your song with the sun and sky,
    the pine trees speak with their green tongue:
    all the birds of the winter whistle.

    The sea fills its cellar with footfalls,
    with bells, chains, whimpers,
    the tools and the metals jangle,
    wheels of the caravan creak.

    But I hear only your voice, your voice
    soars with the zing and precision of an arrow,
    it drops with the gravity of rain,

    your voice scatters the highest swords
    and returns with its cargo of violets:
    it accompanies me through the sky.

    To come up with these words - I am amazed -- "your voice peels the husk of the day's grain" The entire second stave is a wonderment and then to "scatter the highest swards and returns with its cargo of violets: it accompanies me through the sky." Oh oh oh...

    annafair
    June 19, 2006 - 11:39 pm
    I have found a simple one..and Barbara when I read yours I too was amazed what imagery,what thoughts , each word is like a jewel , shining sparkling I have not read that one but will look it up and read it again ..many times.

    I found a small poem that spoke to me One year when my family were at the shore for our summer holiday .we woke and hurried to the ocean to see the sun rise I have no idea why what we saw happened but like this poem it was like the night stars had fallen from the sky and lay still upon the sand There were dozens , truly dozens of starfish , tiny ones , like new borns. laying inert upon the sand >.It did not delight us but made us weep and carefully we gathered some ,,I still have one , about 1 1/2 inch sand pale , like a jewel that could never be worn ..so this poem struck me .anna

    SEAQUAKE
    1968


    Starfish


    When the stars in the sky
    ignore the firmament
    and go off to sleep by day.
    the stars of the water greet
    the sky buried in the sea
    inaugurating the duties
    of the new undersea heavens.


    Pablo Neruda
    translated by Maria Jacketti
    and Dennis Maloney

    hats
    June 20, 2006 - 05:21 am
    Alliemae, I would love to take credit for being the one who originally posted the Seamus Heaney poem. I am not the person. Anneo posted the poem first. I made a mistake and posted the same poem on another day. I think it just proves the poems speaks to many of us.

    By the way, I hope Anneo is well. I miss her here.

    hats
    June 20, 2006 - 05:28 am
    Anna,"Starfish" is beautiful.

    annafair
    June 20, 2006 - 05:58 am
    anneo is a special friend of mine ,,,I chatted with her the other morning via the internet. On her world tour she stopped and spent two weeks with me and charmed my family and all who met her, As my one son said SHE IS AWESOME!

    She has been busy and also having some health concerns but they were being taken care of, If all goes well she and her husband and my family will celebrate New Years 2007 I know when things are better for her she will come by and I am sure when we have Henry Lawson as our poet she will have to peek in I will tell her how much she is missed so when she checks in anywhere on SN she will stop here,

    Glad you liked the poem Hats ...one reason waiting for someone to come by is so tiring I dont hear the doorbell and while my other dogs would bark and let me know someone is there , my sweet Skipper is rather indifferent to the doorbell. We have tried to get him to bark but his attitude seems to be What is wrong with you? Cant you hear the doorbell? so it ties up my whole day..and I cant hear the phone so I have to carry the portable one wherever I go ,,It is more exhausting than working in the yard all day. I am trying to decide on a poem but each time I read one I say oh this one but then I read another and say No this one as soon as I STOP READING and just pick one I will be back. anna

    Alliemae
    June 20, 2006 - 06:28 am
    Uh Oh...another Ooops!!

    Guess I'd better take my poetry book and go sit in the corner and just read for a while! Oh well...Thanks, Hats for the correction.

    hats
    June 20, 2006 - 06:34 am
    Alliemae, don't you dare go in a corner with a poetry book. Well, at least, not for long.

    Anna, take your time choosing one. I have the same problem. Thank you for sharing what your life is like too. Do you have a poem you have written for us today?

    Scrawler
    June 20, 2006 - 08:43 am
    V:

    It was not you, grave death, raptor of iron plumage,
    that the drab tenant of such lodgings carried
    mixed with his gobbled rations under hollow skin-
    rather: a trodden tendril of old rope,
    the atom of a courage that gave way
    or some harsh dew never distilled to sweat.
    of death without a requiem,
    bare bone or fading church bell dying from within

    Lifting these bandages reeking of iodine
    I plunged my hands in humble aches that would have smothered dying
    and nothing did I meet within the wound save wind in gusts
    that chilled my cold interstics of soul.

    translated by Nathaniel Tarn ~ Pablo Neruda

    I think that this part of the poem tells us that no matter how we might prevent something from happening, it will happen. We little or no control over our daily lives. We might prevent something from happening but in the end we will only meet with "wind in gusts." So what does this tell us about life. Perhaps that we should just do that - live.

    Alliemae
    June 20, 2006 - 12:05 pm
    ...today it's on the Front AOL Newspage!! So, I'm including the link in case you haven't seen SeniorNet being lauded! I'm so proud of being a part of SeniorNet!!

    http://reference.aol.com/onlinecampus/campusarticle/_a/five-faces-of-online-learning/20051215111609990001

    I'm sure this link is too long so if anyone out there can show me how to shorten links (I use them a lot and they're ALWAYS long ones!!) I'd really appreciate it.

    In the words of Senor Neruda, Muchas Gracias (at least I would guess that he said that many times...)

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    June 20, 2006 - 01:07 pm
    Loved the simplicity of the starfish poem. I can just see them.And Anna's description of finding them stranded on the beach!!!!!

    In the voice poem - what a remarkable description of a lover's voice.

    Part V of Macchu Picchu - I don't get much of anything from it except aching hands and courage lost.

    Alliemae - I'm e-mailing you the directions for the html characters to make your link.

    Alliemae
    June 20, 2006 - 06:27 pm
    SeniorNet on AOL Newspage

    Try this for my post #1177.

    Thanks so much, Marj!!

    Alliemae

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 20, 2006 - 09:01 pm
    Wow I am impressed - since I do not have AOL I would have missed it - thank you so much Alliemae - great article that give me food for thought - Singapore hmmmm - but taking course in Library science would be such a thrill here or anywhere.

    OK I digress - finally I think I have it - been struggling with this poem longer than I can remember - Finally I think I have figured out the solution - I have two poems - once I broke it apart it seemed to work and so I am going to print out both these poems - since the first one just happened I still do not have a title - Not sure what the title should be - where as the second one is what started the whole mess with the thought that we all plunder the day - maybe the first should be something about the plunder of memory or heart strings.

    Before the sun is hot
    two little girls in shorts and halter top,
    over woolen bathing shorts,
    jabber and skip thirteen blocks
    counting sidewalk cracks,
    examine swaying cattail
    seed-heads promising a decadent night
    smoking mosquitoes away.

    Tethered to her comfort,
    security and promise of wonder, our Mom,
    her solid gait our anchor.
    Trailing light, we lag behind or shoot ahead,
    up the hill we race,
    our breath caught, our eyes
    expecting the prize.

    Crystal fractures glisten on the bay.
    Giddy-sparks birth a dazzled treasure
    of faded blues glinting gold.

    Holding her skirt, we walk to the sea.
    Mom held our toes to earth.
    Her arms, the harbor of her heart,
    filled with: Blankets, towels,
    liverwurst sandwiches on dark bread wrapped
    in wax paper, tomatoes, plums cushioned
    in left-over tissue
    and –
    among the towels -
    her large, brown, thermos with the silver cap,
    filled from home with rich black coffee
    just for her.

    With no thought of itchy wet wool
    we flung ourselves: arms stretched,
    hands and head up, to brake
    at all cost a face full of water.
    Dripping joy we make a second run,
    while Mom builds our nest on the steps
    under the wood slatted awning.

    Returned from a swim wrapped
    in a large towel, wet hair
    plastered to my head
    I mist on those days when
    warm air on water, sparked
    of specks and drops like the glint
    from a treasured crystal bowl.

    My memory finds a throb of white
    luster fleeing across a bay
    like the frenzy of a frightened flock,
    until I see my mother’s face.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 20, 2006 - 09:04 pm
    Enriched by the Plunder -

    Sea shimmer, captive of sunlit
    white luster, like diamonds,
    blind my eyes giddy on the wide bay.

    A skittish flash blithers ashore, skirts
    the sand in white burbles, bobs a duet
    with small boats lifted by the sea-purse.

    Bluster sun smites wind and water,
    flaunts truth on a flicking tongue slurping
    dunes, air, children’s yellow hair.

    Screeching close, sonar in the glare -
    grey strobe shadows flicker, flutter,
    hang, twisting beats wheel with flair.

    Racing the diamond waters,
    body stretched like a phantom sword,
    a heron slices the wind.

    Picaroons we peer, peeling
    our memory of a blue diamond
    match hissing possibilities.

    Kites fly, tranquil castles idle
    in the sun, swimmers, surfers pillage
    the sea, as windflowers feed and drowse

    beneath a flight of golden silk, glistening
    like beads of dew upon the looters
    of summer’s infinite seedpod of spells.

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 01:11 am
    Alliemae, thank you very much for the article.

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 02:26 am
    I love things with a wild passion,
    extravagantly.
    I cherish tongs,
    and scissors;
    I adore
    cups,
    hoops,
    soup tureens,
    not to mention
    of course--the hat.
    I love
    all things,
    not only the
    grand,
    but also
    the infinite-
    ly
    small:
    the thimble,
    spurs,
    dishes,
    vases.


    This is not the whole poem. It is the part of the poem I love the best. It surprised me to see the "ly" on a line alone. Is that odd?

    Often I see poems about nature. Not often do I experience a poem about "things," simple things. I like "things." I love colored glass, Valentine boxes, just boxes covered with pretty fabric, dainty perfume bottles. I am glad to see a poem celebrating "things." I have a pale yellow teddy bear my son gave me one year. The mother bear is wearing a yellow gingham apron. Her arm is wrapped around the baby bear. That mama bear and baby bear are very special to me. I could go on and on talking about "things." Things are precious. Things are part of the stories of our lives.

    Since Curious Minds is discussing Antiques, I would like to dedicate this poem to Bill H. I hope he comes by to read at the Poetry Corner. If not, nothing is done in vain.

    This poem is translated by Ken Krabbenhoff. For those of you wanting to read it, it is a very long poem. Are all Odes long?

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 02:31 am
    I love your first poem. I especially loved "dripping joy." What a special day being free and yet, gathering such precious memories along the way. My favorite is the first poem, the one without a title.

    tooki
    June 21, 2006 - 02:35 am
    Both poems show me a lot. But I find I like the second one better becsue it has more of an abstract quality. That is, the first poem is specific to two little girls, their mother, swimming at the beach. and their reactions.

    The second one plays on the feelings of summer, what these feeling elicit, and stirs up memories of one's own summers.

    So it seems to me that the second, more "abstract" poem is in reality the one that is more personal. Good thing you separated them because they are quite different in intent and effect. Thanks for sharing.

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 02:35 am
    Alliemae, your short link looks so nice, small and neat.

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 02:36 am
    I like both poems. I really love the first one. Please share more of your poems along with Anna.

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 02:39 am
    Well, I can't resist. I will share more of "Ode to Things" today. I love this poem by Pablo Neruda.

    Alliemae
    June 21, 2006 - 06:03 am
    "maybe the first should be something about the plunder of memory or heart strings." (Barbara)

    One thing I've learned in this wonderful discussion is to read the context and read it carefully and not just the poem.

    My impression on just reading the poem was 'isn't it strangely wonderful how children's customs cross the barriers of cultures'.

    I truly thought the poem was written by Pable Neruda, and when the poem said "...and skip thirteen blocks counting sidewalk cracks,..." all I could think was how he is able to delve into our shared experiences with such rich and true evocativeness...for I've shared the similar experiences but the same feelings about days out with my mom or my favorite aunt.

    Now, I think this poem was written by you, Barbara, am I correct in this?

    I loved,

    Tethered to her comfort,
    security and promise of wonder, our Mom,
    her solid gait our anchor.

    and

    "among the towels -
    her large, brown, thermos with the silver cap,
    filled from home with rich black coffee
    just for her.

    ...and although I loved the entire poem, here is another that tugged at my heart...

    "My memory finds a throb of white
    luster fleeing across a bay
    like the frenzy of a frightened flock,
    until I see my mother’s face.

    I'll never forget those times...thank you Barbara for giving form and detail to some of my most precious memories...

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 21, 2006 - 06:10 am
    Oh yes, and boy-oh-boy do I remember those itchy, heavy woolen bathing suits!!

    Alliemae

    Alliemae
    June 21, 2006 - 06:16 am
    Thanks for nice words re: link!

    tooki Hello there...don't believe we've met. Welcome!

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 06:21 am
    Tooki, excuse me. Along with Alliemae, I would like to say welcome too.

    Alliemae
    June 21, 2006 - 07:42 am
    Hats I'm so glad you posted the "Ode to Things"...I love those little things that are actually big memories too!

    I still have the little silver container with scented cotton inside (I've heard what they're called on antique shows; they're for holding to your nose when street (and waterway) odors are unpleasant) which we needed to use in Istanbul before they dredged and cleaned up the Golden Horn...and my sea shells and beach rocks from Lincolnville beach, Maine and oh, I still have my little gilt covered cardboard jewelry box filled with straw from the Ankara zoo...things...

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    June 21, 2006 - 07:56 am
    Today I am in the mood for liking B's first poem best of the two. It brings a whole specific scene to mind. On another time I'd probably like the less definitive, leaving more to the imagination poem

    That "Odes to Things", Hats is really fun. I love things also; trying, tho, to unclutter my life with things I own. More to enjoy them outside personal belongings. Especially since no one will want to make my home into a museum............And I love ladybugs, spider webs, shadows on a snowy day.

    I found "Explaining a Few Things" by Neruda which will be a fun followup to post later.

    annafair
    June 21, 2006 - 08:38 am
    Barbara I AM SO GLAD you are sharing your poems once again and while both are truly great the first one found me instantly following our mother on a summer day walking along a narrow dirt path among tall weeds on our way to a nearby park Now I havent thought of that , well I think this was the fist time since I was young and then I didnt think of it but just enjoyed it. Your poem gifted me with that sweet memory and in my mind I saw and felt my self and my two younger brothers following our mother who carried a picnic basket to give us a day at the park. She knew I loved her I only wish she knew how much I appreciated her and sadly I had to grow up, marry and have children of my own before I knew what a great mom she was.

    Tooki you are welcome , come often , stay late and become part of us.

    Today I have chosen a LONG poem by Neruda I have read it several times and it delights me..I feel first this was his way of showing critics that HE WAS GOING TO WRITE WHAT HE FELT LIKE and like a small boy who does just the opposite of what is expected of him Neruda wrote this poem I can almost feel his delight , his eyes twinkling , his face smiling as he pens his thought.. and enjoys each word as I did.. anna

    Ode to the Artichoke


    The tender -hearted
    artichoke
    got dressed as warrior,
    erect, built
    a little cupola ,
    stood
    impermeable
    under
    its scales,
    around it
    the crazy vegetables
    bristled,
    grew
    astonishing tendrils,
    cattails, bulbs,
    in the subsoil
    slept the carrot
    with its red whiskers,
    the grapevine
    dried the runners
    through which it carries the wine,
    the cabbage
    devoted itself
    to trying on skirts,
    oregano
    to perfuming the world,
    and the gentle
    artichoke
    stood there in the garden ,
    dressed as a warrior,
    burnished ,
    like a pomegranate ,
    proud,
    and one day
    along with the others
    in large willow
    baskets, it traveled
    to the market
    to realize its dream:
    the army ,
    Amid the rows
    never was it so military
    as at the fair.
    men
    among the vegetables
    with their white shirts
    were
    marshals
    of the artichokes,
    the tight ranks,
    the voices of command,
    and the detonation
    of a falling crate,
    but
    then
    comes
    Maria
    with her basket
    picks
    an artichoke,
    isn’t afraid of it ,
    examines it , holds it
    to the light as if it were an egg,
    buys it,
    mixes it up
    in her bag
    with a pair of shoes,
    with a head of cabbage and a
    bottle
    of vinegar
    until
    entering the kitchen
    she submerges it in a pot.
    Thus ends
    in peace
    the career
    of the armored vegetable
    which is called an artichoke,
    then
    scale by scale
    we undress
    its delight
    and we eat
    the peaceful flesh
    of its green heart.


    Pablo Neruda
    translated by Stephen Mitchell
    Elemental Odes
    1952-1957


    In His memoirs he said of the Elemental Odes that some critics felt some things were not material for poetry "Literary refinement has come to this kind of flippancy. They are trying to force creative artists to deal only with the sublime themes But they are wrong. We’ll even make poetry from those things most scorned by the arbiters of good taste."

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 08:49 am
    Anna, I love the idea "make poetry from those things most scorned by the arbiters of good taste." I really enjoyed an "Ode tothe Artichoke." I can see the artichoke as a gentle warrior.

    MarjV
    June 21, 2006 - 09:46 am
    The Ode to the Artichoke made me giggle. Could just see the garden with the artichoke's companions. And then the market & then Maria's bag and then the pot and eating therof. Who could think about an artichoke having a dream , and a military dream at that!!!!!

    I agree, his eyes would have twinkled as he wrote it.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 21, 2006 - 10:25 am
    Thank you for your kind feedback - of course each day I see how something could be tweaked however this was wonderful to know your own childhood walks or summer days were brought to mind while you were reading... and to have certain lines picked out was a joy for me so that I have read your responses several times now... thanks you for this slender smile that is lifting my day...

    The Ode To Things is sentimental isn't it - more of the ordinary made special - having seen the photos that someone shared earlier in the month of Neruda's cliff top home, there was one shot taken from inside the house looking out the door where a wood structure was built with a few hanging things that appeared to be unique pots - while reading Ode To Things I had the crazy impression if we could all hang on a washline our favorite things -

    Reminded me of over 30 years ago my sister was going through a really rough patch that ended in divorce - [husband using all cash for drugs] so when Christmas arrived with no money and two very young boys she got a tree and together they decorated it with their favorite spoon and cup and paper napkins folded or cut into shapes and she broke an old mirror and tied the pieces to the tree - the youngest even tied an old bone he found while digging in the yard. Since then that bone has been on her tree every year and the boys smile at the memory of having more fun since that year they used what they could find to decorate the tree.

    Oh and yes, pure delight the Ode to the Artichoke what Disney did with a mouse during the 30s is what Dreamworks did with toys in 1995 is what Pablo Neruda did with the garden, especially the artichoke in the 1950s - joy filled magic...

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 12:35 pm
    Oh, my soul,
    the planet
    is radiant,
    teeming with
    pipe
    in hand,
    conductors
    of smoke;
    with keys,
    saltshakers, and
    well,
    things crafted
    by the human hand, everything--
    the curves of a shoe,
    fabric,
    the new bloodless
    birth
    of gold,
    the eyeglasses,
    nails,
    brooms,
    watches, compasses,
    coins, the silken
    plushness of chairs.


    Pablo Neruda goes on writing about his love of items. I especially love this part of the poem because Pablo Neruda mentions "things crafted by the human hand." I love going to craft fairs. My mother and my sister made hand crafted items. My mother sewed my clothing fo school. One year I wanted to be a princess. My mother made me a beautiful pink satin and crinoline bottomed gown, one like Cinderella would wear to the ball.

    My sister knitted and did crochet. She spent time knitting many sweaters. One time she finished a Queen Anne Lace crochet tablecloth. Her fingers were always busy. Her house filled with starched doilies. The standing, stiff ruffles always amazed me. She also took time to teach me how to knit and crochet.

    I hope the work people do with their hands will never totally disappear. It's another part of the story of our lives.

    Barbara, I love the Christmas tree, especially the cracked pieces of mirror. The bone is especially cute.

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 12:41 pm
    Oh, I have a question. In this part of the poem Pablo Neruda mentions "the new bloodless birth of gold." Is Pablo Neruda talking about the making of gold? I couldn't understand this line.

    MarjV
    June 21, 2006 - 01:09 pm
    I think that line refers to the smelting process of gold that is done by man. It comes out of the ore in the process - a birthing.

    http://www.pamp.ch/gold_c/Info_site/in_glos/in_glos_smelt.html

    On most gold mines, smelting is the final stage of recovering gold from an ore, thus obtaining a bar that is upwards of 850 fine, which can be sent to a refinery for purifying up to 995 or 999.9 fineness. Copper smelters also produce by-product gold, which then goes for refining. The terms smelting and refining sometimes overlap but whereas smelting is the separation of gold from non-metallic impurities, refining is the separating and purifying of gold from other metals.

    hats
    June 21, 2006 - 01:10 pm
    MarjV, thank you. Thank you for the link too. Your answer makes sense.

    Alliemae
    June 21, 2006 - 01:35 pm
    What more sublime than the bulbous and gleaming purple aubergine,
    The sweetness of the petit pois outshining in taste even dessert
    The beefiness of the grilled portobello to
    a newly transitioned ex-carnivore...
    With a draping of anise flavored fennel fronds across her middle.

    There is more than one 'artistic refinement'...
    Like the carrot's heretofore unduplicated orange hue
    The smell of a fresh peach beckoning from the market stall...
    And the juice of the perfectly ripe pear running in rivulets down to one's chin!

    I say, "Hail that artichoke!"

    * Alliemae

  • flippantly frivolous...but fun!!
  • hats
    June 21, 2006 - 01:46 pm
    Alliemae, you made me laugh so hard. "Hail that artichoke!" Your words are almost better than the poem.

    annafair
    June 21, 2006 - 02:18 pm
    I am with Hats loved your poem and especially about the pear Somewhere among my poems is an ODE TO A PEAR and the last line is ? more or less Had I been Eve in Eden I wouldnt have sinned for an apple But a PEAR? that is possible.!

    We have had such fun with Neruda's Ode to an Artichoke which somehow I think would have pleased him and he would havd chuckled at the remarks we have made and said BRAVO! I am glad you liked it as much as I I read it several times because I found it funny and real but it was such a LONG poem to type out I kept rejecting it but decided I cant be the only one who is enjoying this The rest have to have an opportunity as well!

    Now you all have made my day ...smiling ..anna

    MarjV
    June 21, 2006 - 02:28 pm
    flippantly frivolous...but fun!! -from Alliemae

    Love what you did, Ms A - definitely.

    Scrawler
    June 21, 2006 - 02:47 pm
    Today in convrsation,
    the past
    cropped up,
    my past.
    Sleazy
    incidents
    indulged,
    vacuous
    episodes,
    spoiled flour
    dust.
    You crouch down,
    gently
    sink
    into yourself,
    but
    when it's a matter
    of someone else, some friend,
    some enemy,
    then
    you are merciless,
    you frown:
    What a terrible life he had!
    That woman, what a life
    she led!
    You hold
    your nose
    visibly
    you disapprove of pasts
    other than your own.
    Looking back, we view
    our worst days
    with nostalogia,
    cautiously
    we open the coffer
    and un up the ensign
    of our feats
    to be admired.
    Let's forget the rest
    Just a bad memory.
    Listen and Learn.
    Time
    is divided
    into two rivers:
    one
    flows backward, devouring
    life already lived;
    the other
    moves forward with you
    exposing
    your life,
    For a single second
    they may be joined.
    Now.
    This is that moment,
    the drop of an instant
    that washes away the past.
    It is the present.
    It is in your hands.
    Racing, slipping,
    tumbling like a waterfall.
    But it is yours.<BR< Help it grow
    with love, with firmness,
    with stone and flight,
    with resounding
    recitude,
    with purest grains,
    the most brilliant metal
    from your heart,
    walking
    in the full light of day
    without fear
    of truth, goodness, justice,
    companions of song,
    time that flows
    will have the shape
    and sound
    of a guitar,
    and when you want
    to bow to the past
    the singing spring of
    transparent time
    will reveal your wholeness.
    Time is joy.

    ~ translated by Margaret Sayers Peden ~ Pablo Neruda

    This is certainly a different kind of "ode". What do you think do we think of the "past" the way that Neruda suggests? I find that I grow older that I tend towards a selective memory of my past. I tend either to remember all the good or all the bad depending on my mood.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 21, 2006 - 03:43 pm
    hehehehaha Alliemae - wonderful - "With a draping of anise flavored fennel fronds across her middle" hehehe how much fun...

    Hats you also had a mother who sewed - I think those of us who are at least 50 and older know the sound of the sewing machine going at all hours - younger and it just no longer paid to sew with fabric becoming so expensive and women being free to work all sorts of jobs so her frugal ways with needle and thread were less important. But what is missing is the special costume and the dress barely finished so rather than the zipper you went to church pinned or basted in till Mom could finish the dress you wanted so to wear for a special something.

    I just do not have the courage of a Tasha Tuder to give up my current lifestyle to embrace the simple life before we all went to work outside our home... but somethings I sure do miss - the canning and the baking every Saturday along with the big roast on Sunday that lasted till Wednesday and scrapes in some nameless dish on Thursday, the big kitchen garden and the wash hanging fresh in the air to dry with the scurry to bring it in when the first rain drop fell. It is nice to buy what I need as well as what I want however I miss so many perks that came with doing it all ourselves.

    JoanK
    June 21, 2006 - 06:02 pm
    I've gotten so far behind, I thought I'd better skip the posts and go right to the end. But when I saw "Ode to the Artichoke", I had to go back and read it!! i love artichokes. When I lived in Israel, they were one of the cheapest vegetables -- pennies apiece. I would buy tons, and boil them up, to eat around the kitchen table with friends, pulling leaves off by turns, dipping them in butter, and if the butter ran down your chin, so much the better.

    Here in Maryland, we see artichokes one month a year, overpriced and looking mangy.

    Alliemae
    June 22, 2006 - 06:13 am
    What a nice reception! I almost didn't post it but my 'flippant' side won out!! I was raised not only by a writer of poems but of limericks so I LOVE humor in poetry, such as:

    Alas, Poor Grandad!

    I took Grandad out in a boat
    The darn think sank, it wouldn't float.
    A lasting lesson that'll teach him...
    He can't swim--and I can't reach him!"

    (by Alliemae's Dad)

    Hats I chuckled a bit while writing my Ode too!

    Anna I would love to read your Ode to a Pear and I agree about the Eve bit--guess we women have come a long way--pears are much more subtle!

    Thanks, Ms. MV--thought you might!! #:^)

    Barbara I rather liked those fennel fronds also--same connotation as the pear I think!

    Now I want to go enjoy Neruda's Ode to the Past via Scrawler; it looks very interesting and I'd like to answer her question...

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 22, 2006 - 07:07 am
    Scrawler, I think Pablo Neruda is very truthful about how we view the past. I look at the bad and good in my past. I look longer at the good moments. The bad parts or mistakes in the past can make me feel depressed. It's not possible to erase my mistakes or regrets of the past. I can only work through forgiving myself for mistakes made in the past. I do believe our past is as important as our present.

    hats
    June 22, 2006 - 07:16 am
    There are days that haven't arrived yet,
    that are being made
    like bread or chairs or a product
    from the pharmacies or the woodshops:
    there are factories of days to come:
    they exist, craftsmen of the soul
    who raise and weigh and prepare
    certain bitter or beautiful day
    that arrive suddenly at the door
    to reward us with an orange
    or to instantly murder us.


    Translated by William O'Daly

    This gives me hope and helps me look beyond the past. There are many unused days ahead, fresh and new ones. This is why I can not allow my past to rule my present. I can always try again. I also can not drain my strength looking in the past. Who knows? today might bring me an orange or murder to my soul. I need strength for today and tomorrow.

    Alliemae
    June 22, 2006 - 07:19 am
    Marj I found your post about the gold truly informative and interesting. I too, like Hats, did not 'get' that line in the poem. Thanks!! Alliemae

    hats
    June 22, 2006 - 07:19 am
    Alliemae, thank you for more humor. I love the short poem or limerick. How much fun is that to have a family member who wrote limericks and poems? That is so great!

    annafair
    June 22, 2006 - 09:59 am
    Alliemae I had to laugh at that bit from your dad...what a delightful person he must have been ..and Hats I wonder you really realize what profound things you share..When I look at past mistakes I realize part of the problem then was I hadnt lived long enough to know why I should have chosen a different path,. And since all I have now is today and then only this moment I fully intend to live it, enjoy it , savor it and try not to do anything I will regret tomorrow. If we can forgive others thier mistakes , then we can certainly forgive ourselves..I refuse to agonize ( yes I know I do but less than in other times LOL ) If I cant forgive myself than I cant forgive others, If I dont love me I cant love others ..anyway now that I have said my piece I am on to a poem by our poet. From The Captain's Verses
    1951-1952


    SEPTEMBER 8


    Today, the day was a full glass,
    Today, the day was an immense wave,
    Today, it was all the earth.


    Today the tempestuous sea
    lifted us in a kiss
    so high that we trembled
    in the flash of lightning
    and, tied together, descended
    and submerged without unraveling.


    Today our bodies became immense,
    they grew up to the edge of the world
    and rolled melting themselves
    into one single drop
    of wax or meteor.


    A new door opened between you and me
    and someone, still without a face,
    was waiting for us there.


    Pablo Neruda
    Translated by Mark Eisner


    The poems from this time were published anonoymously since he wrote them for Matilde Urruria and didnt want to cause pain to Delia whom he was leaving He described her as the sweetest of consorts and was a perfect' mate for 18 years ..He did'nt allow his name to be added until much later He described it as a book with sudden and burning love. Was'nt it Jim who said when he posted some of Neruda's love lyrics he needed to go take a cold shower? Well I rather felt the same way ,anna

    Alliemae
    June 22, 2006 - 11:07 am
    This poem for me was so filled with truth and value I couldn't help but read it over and over and over again. And my final gift from this poem is hope.

    The first line that really struck me was:

    "but
    when it's a matter
    of someone else, some friend,
    some enemy,
    then
    you are merciless,"

    Oh how I have to work on this one...

    ...and then the most hopeful for me...

    "time
    is divided
    into two rivers:..."

    and

    "For a second
    they may be joined.
    Now.
    This is that moment,
    the drop of an instant
    that washes away the past.

    ...and finally,

    Time is joy.

    Did you ever wake up and realize that it is a day before you thought it was? That is one of my greatest joys in life...and for which I am always grateful!

    Thank you so much Scrawler for posting this most thought-provoking poem.

    Alliemae

    MarjV
    June 22, 2006 - 11:17 am
    The Day Past aka Ode to the Past

    We are WAiting

    The Day comes


    3 Simple phrases. Filled with all manner of un-simple from the last 3 poems posted. Great.

    hats
    June 22, 2006 - 11:46 am
    Anna, you have chosen your words so well, as always. I laughed at the "cold shower' idea. Oh my!

    I do love "September 8" especially the first three lines. I think the warmth builds as the poem continues to the end.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 22, 2006 - 01:23 pm
    somehow this from Carl Sandburg seemed right to include about here --
    OUR PRAYER OF THANKS

    FOR the gladness here where the sun is shining at
    evening on the weeds at the river,
    Our prayer of thanks.

    For the laughter of children who tumble barefooted and
    bareheaded in the summer grass,
    Our prayer of thanks.

    For the sunset and the stars, the women and the white
    arms that hold us,
    Our prayer of thanks.

    God,
    If you are deaf and blind, if this is all lost to you,
    God, if the dead in their coffins amid the silver handles
    on the edge of town, or the reckless dead of war
    days thrown unknown in pits, if these dead are
    forever deaf and blind and lost,
    Our prayer of thanks.

    God,
    The game is all your way, the secrets and the signals and
    the system; and so for the break of the game and
    the first play and the last.
    Our prayer of thanks.

    Scrawler
    June 22, 2006 - 02:54 pm
    Yesterday I felt as if my ode
    was never going to sprout.
    At least it should
    have been showing
    a green leaf.
    I scratched the soil: "Come up,
    sister ode,"
    I said,
    "I promised to produce you
    don't be afraid of me,
    I'll not step on your
    four leaves, your
    four hands, ode,
    we'll have tea together.
    Come up
    and I'll crown you first among my odes
    we'll go to the seashore
    on our bicycles."
    It was useless.

    Then,
    high amid the pines
    I saw lovely
    naked laziness,
    she led me off bedazzled
    and bemused,
    she showed me on the sand
    small broken bits
    of marine matter,
    driftwood, seaweed, stones,
    seabirds' feathers.
    I hunted but did not find
    yellow agates.
    The sea
    surged higher,
    crumbling towers,
    invading
    the shoreline of my homeland,
    sending forth
    successive catastrophes of foam,
    A solitary corolla
    cast a ray
    against the sand.
    I saw silvery petrels crushing
    and, like black crosses,
    cormorants
    clinging to the rocks,
    I freed a bee from
    its death throes in a spiderweb,
    I put a pebble
    in my pocket,
    it was smooth, as smooth
    as a bird's breast,
    meanwhile along the coast
    all afternoon,
    sun and fog waged war.
    At times
    the fog glowed
    with
    a topaz light,
    other times
    a moist sun cast
    rays dripping yellow drops.

    That night,
    thinking of the duties of my
    elusive ode,
    I took off my shoes
    beside the fire,
    and soon I was falling
    fast asleep.

    translated by Margaret Sayers Peden ~ Pablo Neruda

    Oh! How this poem makes me want to go the beach, but not to the beach of the here and now, the beach of childhood. Where I walked in the sand and let the ocean crash cold water on my bare wiggling feet and where I would walk for hours investigating some "treasures" that were swept up on shore by the waves and than finally as the sun and fog played hide and seek I would fall asleep on the warm sand to await the western sunset.

    MarjV
    June 22, 2006 - 05:19 pm
    "Ode to Laziness" - I sure did laugh at the first half of that. Thought, at first, maybe it was a spoof written by you Anne. It reminded me of the times I'm stretching and searching my brain for the creative answer I need. And then it comes. Seems all creative work takes a bits of sweat, aggravation, digging, etc. until "Voila!"

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 22, 2006 - 06:20 pm
    Oh what a master can do with images of the sea... I do not know what is more decadent - reading the words of the poem are fantasizing the images the poem brings forth...

    annafair
    June 23, 2006 - 01:51 am
    yes the first half is funny and made me laugh as well. I love his humorous lines ..they seem so real, I can see him smile when he even thinks the thought and then writes it down ..but what he writes about the rest of the day , the ocean, the tides, the sea treasures washed upon the sand , the day , as a child I lived in the middle of the country and never saw the ocean until I was grown and immediately fell in love with it ..I love living near enough ( 25 min away or less) that I can go often and satisfy my sea hunger When the children and I lived in Florida while my husband did a tour in Korea. we drove one weekend to Sanibel Island I still have a huge box of shells collected there. Whole, intact and absolutely beautiful It is rare to find intact shells on the Atlantic but there on the Gulf there were hundreds when the tide went out , perfect jewels...makes me want to go back..and whatever Neruda writes about the sea I understand and give thanks I had the glory of living near and sailing over and flying over the earth's great oceans We should all be as fortunate./anna

    hats
    June 23, 2006 - 02:56 am
    "Our Prayer of Thanks" by Carl Sandburg just hits the spot. With the soldiers suffering such atrocious deeds it does seem like time to give thanks for those who are too heartbroken to do it themselves at this time. This week some people have heard unbearable news.

    Also, there are great summer memories included too.

    hats
    June 23, 2006 - 02:59 am
    Scrawler, what a good one! I enjoyed "The Ode to Laziness." I like and can relate to MarjV's comment.

    hats
    June 23, 2006 - 03:05 am
    Anna, I bet those shell are just beautiful. What can I trade for your box of shell??

    hats
    June 23, 2006 - 03:14 am
    They knocked on my door on the sixth of August:
    nobody was standing there
    and nobody entered, sat down in a chair
    and passed the time with me, nobody.


    I will never forget that absence
    that entered me like a man enters his own house
    and I was satisfied with non-being:
    an emptiness open to everything.


    Nobody questioned me, saying nothing,
    and I answered without seeing or speaking.


    Such a spacious and specific interview!


    Translated by William O'Daly

    I had to read this one a few times. I think this is a day when someone becomes comfortable with being alone. Really, they are not alone. The self is so complicated and many. Our memories alone can fill a room with company. Sometimes I am just sitting, maybe crocheting, I will remember my boys playing basketball. Then, there are moments without memory, just the peace of being with myself. It takes a lot of life before a person becomes comfortable with "absence" or "non-being." It's worth the wait.

    Alliemae
    June 23, 2006 - 05:16 am
    Dear Friends,

    I've had to leave the discussion till Monday with the Ode to Time because I am attending the ACL Conference which is being held at my alma mater at UPenn along with some fellow students and our teachers, Ginny and Barbara.

    Of course, being Philadelphia, the weather is going to be all over the place with sun turning to storms...even hail storms...but I'll just go with the flow. I've got my handy rain parka with hood that even covers my power chair motor and battery so I hope the charge holds till I get home. I've become pretty good at tip-toeing between raindrops large and small!!

    Will be back on Sunday evening or Monday (well I'll be home each evening but don't know what my energy level will be or how much reading I'll indulge myself with from the conference.

    See you all in a couple of days!!

    Alliemae

    hats
    June 23, 2006 - 05:28 am
    Alliemae, Even for a few days you will be missed. I hope all goes well at the conference. Stay safe and well.

    annafair
    June 23, 2006 - 06:20 am
    We will think of you and wish you well and good weather My husband lived in Ardmore area and I loved being in Philadelphia ..I can see us driving in on the road that runs along the river and seeing the city skyline and Billy Penn atop what building? I am trying to think of the name of the river and that road.. And I remember being awakened by a terrible thunderstorm so unusual from the storms in the midwest , those you could see them coming for miles In my husbands childhood home they were upon before we knew it ..so I wish for you pleasent weather and if rain ..gentle drops. We will miss you..and below is the link to my Hymn to a Pear which does not end as I had said but I know I wrote a poem with an ending as I mentioned..Perhaps it was a rewrite of this one or this was written at at different time I know pears were always a treat and I may have written the other lines when I was writing a story about my childhood and mother allowing us to buy fruit for our lunches and how I waited each year for pears to be found ..Come back soon have a GREAT TIME ..anna

    http://www.vgreene.com/index.htm

    annafair
    June 23, 2006 - 06:33 am
    Thank you so much for mentioning Our Prayer of Thanks that Barbara posted Your feelings were similar to mine and I just re-read it and again it brought a lump to my throat. It is appropiate with our dose of daily war news ...sad to say,Thank you Barbara for posting it..

    And Hats the poem you posted again was so special and your interpretation was so accurate , profound and wise I am including your remarks No one could say it better ..thank you..anna

    "I had to read this one a few times. I think this is a day when someone becomes comfortable with being alone. Really, they are not alone. The self is so complicated and many. Our memories alone can fill a room with company. Sometimes I am just sitting, maybe crocheting, I will remember my boys playing basketball. Then, there are moments without memory, just the peace of being with myself. It takes a lot of life before a person becomes comfortable with "absence" or "non-being." It's worth the wait. "

    hats
    June 23, 2006 - 06:37 am
    You have done it again. The poem is delicious. I enjoyed "Hymn to a Pear" very, very much. Thank you so much for sharing it.

    MarjV
    June 23, 2006 - 01:58 pm
    With all our "Odes" postings I thought this poem was timely-

    "I'm Explaining a Few Things", Pablo Neruda



    You are going to ask: and where are the lilacs?
    and the poppy-petalled metaphysics?
    and the rain repeatedly spattering
    its words and drilling them full
    of apertures and birds?
    I'll tell you all the news.

    I lived in a suburb,
    a suburb of Madrid, with bells,
    and clocks, and trees.

    From there you could look out
    over Castille's dry face:
    a leather ocean.
    My house was called
    the house of flowers, because in every cranny
    geraniums burst: it was
    a good-looking house
    with its dogs and children.
    Remember, Raul?
    Eh, Rafel? Federico, do you remember
    from under the ground
    my balconies on which
    the light of June drowned flowers in your mouth?
    Brother, my brother!
    Everything
    loud with big voices, the salt of merchandises,
    pile-ups of palpitating bread,
    the stalls of my suburb of Arguelles with its statue
    like a drained inkwell in a swirl of hake:
    oil flowed into spoons,
    a deep baying
    of feet and hands swelled in the streets,
    metres, litres, the sharp
    measure of life,
    stacked-up fish,
    the texture of roofs with a cold sun in which
    the weather vane falters,
    the fine, frenzied ivory of potatoes,
    wave on wave of tomatoes rolling down the sea.


    This was definitely from his time in Spain. This poem is online and did not have translator or date. There is more to the poem that I will post later. A tougher segment to read.

    I found this elsewhere: He wrote this poem in 1936 in Spain where he was a Chilean consul, shortly after the murder of his friend, the Spanish poet Federico García Lorca, by Franco's fascists -- known as the Nationalists (they actually forced García Lorca to dig his own grave).

    Stay tuned.

    MarjV
    June 23, 2006 - 02:04 pm
    "It Happens"

    I agree - that poem is about time spent alone. And not "bad" time either. And I do like it.

    "and I was satisfied with non-being:
    an emptiness open to everything."

    Fantastic. Can we allow outselves to be satisfied? And I think 'allow' is exactly the right word. I think many of us have from comments I read in this poetry discussion.

    MarjV
    June 23, 2006 - 05:04 pm
    And one morning all that was burning,
    one morning the bonfires
    leapt out of the earth
    devouring human beings --
    and from then on fire,
    gunpowder from then on,
    and from then on blood.
    Bandits with planes and Moors,
    bandits with finger-rings and duchesses,
    bandits with black friars spattering blessings
    came through the sky to kill children
    and the blood of children ran through the streets
    without fuss, like children's blood.

    Jackals that the jackals would despise,
    stones that the dry thistle would bite on and spit out,
    vipers that the vipers would abominate!

    Face to face with you I have seen the blood
    of Spain tower like a tide
    to drown you in one wave
    of pride and knives!

    Treacherous
    generals:
    see my dead house,
    look at broken Spain :
    from every house burning metal flows
    instead of flowers,
    from every socket of Spain
    Spain emerges
    and from every dead child a rifle with eyes,
    and from every crime bullets are born
    which will one day find
    the bull's eye of your hearts.

    And you'll ask: why doesn't his poetry
    speak of dreams and leaves
    and the great volcanoes of his native land?

    Come and see the blood in the streets.
    Come and see
    The blood in the streets.
    Come and see the blood
    In the streets!

    Pablo Neruda

    This is a piece of poetry where Neruda didn't speak of "nice" things. He had to tell the world how he felt about his friend's murder and the fighting. I applaud it's truth.

    Scrawler
    June 23, 2006 - 05:11 pm
    Every morning, suit,
    you are waiting on a chair
    to be filled
    by my vanity, my love,
    my hope, my body.
    Still
    only half awake
    I leave the shower
    to shrug into your sleeves,
    my legs seek
    the hollow of your legs
    and thus embraced
    by your unfailing loyalty
    I take my morning walk,
    work my way into my poetry;
    from my windows I see
    the things,
    men, women,
    events, and struggles
    constantly confronting me,
    setting my hands to the task,
    opening my eyes,
    cresing my lips,
    and in the same way,
    suit,
    I am shaping you,
    poking out your elbows
    wearing you threadbare,
    and so your life grows
    in he image of my own.
    In the wind
    you flap and hum
    as if you were my soul,
    in bad moments
    you cling
    to my bones,
    abandoned, at nighttime
    darkness and dream
    people with their phantoms
    your wings and mine.
    I wonder
    wether someday
    an enemy
    bullet
    will stain you with my blood,
    for then
    you would die with me
    but perhaps
    it will be
    less dramatic,
    simple,
    and you will grow ill,
    suit,
    with me,
    and together
    we will be lowered
    into the earth.
    That's why
    every day
    I greet you
    with respect and then
    you embrace me and I forget you,
    because we are one being
    and shall be always
    in the wind, through the night,
    the streets and the struggle,
    one body,
    maybe, maybe, one day, still.

    translated by Margaret Sayers Peden ~ Pablo Neruda

    The first part of this poem is funny, but as you continue to read it becomes sad. Knowing how he died you can't help wonder what happened to his clothes. But one thing that Neruda does with his poems is make one think! How many times have we gotten up in the shadow of night and put on our clothes without even one thought for "them." After all they keep us warm when it is cold and when it is warm or hot they protect us from the elements.

    I particularly like it when I first take my clothes out of the dryer - they smell so fresh! Years ago I used to dryer my clothes outside, but since I started living in apartments I'm not able to do that. In San Francisco my mother had one those ringer-washing machines and we used dry the clothes on the line, but they never really dried because of all the fog, but they still smelled so good - I miss that.

    annafair
    June 23, 2006 - 06:53 pm
    Marj I can hardly read his poems about Spain and the things he saw and felt ..He makes me see and feel them so acutely I find it almost too painful to read, I have read them but I cant bring myself to post them I am glad you do ..and your comments are right as well

    Scrawler I read that poem as well and thought about posting it too. I know a dress or a gown that was worn for a happy event is almost impossible for me to get rid of ..I know I can donate them but then I have also seen some beautiful things that were donated ending up in a box that was supposed to hold rags. I know when my husband died I donated his clothes to the local VA Hospital since many of the people that are like permanent residents dont have access to clothes ..and I know they were put to good use. But womens things are harder fits ..and sometimes I just cut them up and put them in plastic bags and throw them in the trash All of my husbands uniforms I cut up and put in the trash I didnt want to see anyone wearing them ..and like you his poem was sort of funny in the beginning but I think he fell into a sort of melancholy mood toward the end ..You wouldnt think clothes would be that important but 12 years since my husbands death I still have a few of his things ..ones I loved to see him wear and ones he loved wearing..and while I had some of my mother;s jewelery it was a really an awful orange rain coat she loved I kept for a long time , wore it myself It seemed to hold the essence of her .. to me that is the special quality of this man ..he sees and recognizes things we dismiss as not important but to him everything was important and by reading his poetry I am seeing things differently as well, sorry I have no poem but we had a terrific tstorm and my computer was turned off and I just watched the trees and the lightning display and comforted my dog. anna

    Scrawler
    June 24, 2006 - 10:38 am
    I touched my book:
    it was
    compact,
    solid,
    arched
    like a white ship,
    half open
    like a new rose,
    it was
    to my eyes
    a mill,
    from each page
    of my book
    sprouted the flower of bread;
    I was blinded by my own rays,
    I was insufferably
    self-satisfied,
    my feet left the ground
    and I was walking
    on clouds,
    and then,
    comrade criticism,
    you brought me down
    to earth,
    a single word
    showd me suddenly
    how much I had left undone,
    how far I could go
    with my strength and tenderness,
    sail with the ship of my song.

    I came back a more genuine man,
    enriched.
    I took what I had
    and all you have,
    all your travels
    across the earth,
    everything your eyes
    had seen;
    all the battles
    your heart had fought day after day
    aligned themselves
    beside me,
    and as I had high the flour
    of my song,
    the flower of the bread smelled sweeter.

    I say, thank you,
    criticism,
    bright mover of the world,
    pure science,
    sign
    of speed, oil
    for the eternal human wheel,
    golden sword,
    cornerstone
    of the structure.
    Criticism, you're not the bearer
    of the think, foul
    drop
    of envy,
    the personal scythe,
    or ambiguous, curled-up
    worm
    in the bitter coffee bean,
    nor are you part of the scheme
    of the old sword swaller and his tribe,
    nor the treacherous
    tail
    of the feudal serpent
    always twined around its exquisite branch.

    Criticism, you are
    a helping
    hand,
    bubble in the level, mark on the steel,
    notable pulsation.

    With a single life
    I will not learn enough.

    With the light of other lives,
    many lives will live in my song.

    ~ translated by Margaret Sayers Peden ~ Pablo Neruda

    When I was younger I hated anyone critizing my poems and stories, but as I grew older I recognized it for what it really is. Not criticism against ME the person, but rather constructive criticism of my creative work. Now I take into consideration the criticism I receive and make the necessary adjustments and most times it makes my work better. I think its criticism of a personal nature that is difficult to accept.

    hats
    June 24, 2006 - 10:40 am
    Scrawler, I loved "Ode to the Suit." I have just read "Ode to Criticism." I can only make one comment. Thank you for sharing this one. These are my favorite lines.

    With a single life
    I will not learn enough.


    With the light of other lives,
    many lives will live in my song.

    MarjV
    June 24, 2006 - 01:52 pm
    FINALLY rec'd my books from our high school lib.

    From The Book of Questions

    Have you noticed that autumn
    is like a yellow cow?

    And how later the autumnal beast
    is a dark skeleton?

    And how winter collects
    so many layers of blue?

    And who asked springtime
    for its kingdom of clear air?

    Library Journal:
    Once called ``a one-man Renaissance,'' Nobel laureate and Chilean poet and statesman Neruda (1904-1973) wrote these 74 poems and 316 playful questions about death, nature, and rebirth in the last year of his life. Cryptic and intriguing, these brief answerless riddles, like Roethke's visionary poems, ask the sophisticated question of the innocent child--``Is the sun the same as yesterday's/ or is the fire different than that fire?''--and probe what it means to be human: ``Whom can I ask what I came/to make happen in this world?'' This volume is the last in a series of seven bilingual translations from this publishers of Neruda's late and posthumously published work. American poetry and readers benefit by having excellent English-language translations of all Neruda's complicated, prolific work.-- Trans. Wm. O'Daly

    The rational mind alone cannot find a completely satisfactory response to such poetry, so the reader is driven deeper into each poem in the search for inarticujlate truth. These poems are openings rather than closures. (back of book cover)

    I really love these questions !

    hats
    June 25, 2006 - 01:58 am
    MarjV, I am glad you received your books. I love those questions especially the one about autumn.

    MarjV
    June 25, 2006 - 05:32 am
    Yes, I'd always thought about the leafless tress as fascinating silhouettes ; different to think of them as skeletons.

    hats
    June 25, 2006 - 05:48 am
    I like the "yellow cow" part. I don't know what made Pablo Neruda think of autumn in that way.

    Have you noticed that autumn
    is like a yellow cow?

    MarjV
    June 25, 2006 - 06:14 am
    Hats, I don't even think there are yellow cows per se.

    Now this photo is called a yellow cow. Much more to my thinking of one of the autumn colors

    http://www.angrin.tlri.gov.tw/grin/animal/cow29-2a.jpg

    Maybe it has to do with the translator's translation of 'amarilla' as the adjective for 'vaca'(cow). Tho I looked it up on altavista.com translator and it says 'yellow'.

    hats
    June 25, 2006 - 06:16 am
    Marj, that's a great photo. The color of the cow is golden like the leaves in autumn. I like healthy cows.

    annafair
    June 25, 2006 - 07:11 am
    When I clicked it became a non responding site. How I hate that term...I have read so many of Neruda's poems and have agonized over which one to post..So many about his time in Spain are so heavy with sadness I find I just cant post them because he shows so clearly what it was like I did find this poem and will post it . I loved it because his descriptions were so pure and ones I had known , the winter light that is no light the day that is all cloud and as he said like moist bread Whoever would have described it that way?And the horses manes like salt spray! Here it is enjoy..anna

    Extravagaria
    1957-1958


    HORSES


    From the window I saw the horses.


    I was in Berlin, in winter. The light
    was without light, the sky skyless


    The air white like a moistened loaf.


    From my window, I could see a deserted arena,
    a circle bitten out my the teeth of winter.


    All at once, led out by a single man,
    ten horses were stepping, stepping into the snow.


    Scarcely had they rippled into existence
    like flame, that they filled the whole world of my eyes ,
    empty till now: Faultless, flaming,
    they stepped like ten gods on broad , clean hoofs,
    their manes recalling a dream of salt spray.


    Their rumps were globes , like oranges.


    Their color was amber and honey , was on fire.


    Their necks were towers,
    carved from the stone of pride,
    and in their furious eyes , sheer energy
    showed itself, a prisoner inside them.


    And there, in the silence, at the mid-
    point of the day , in a dirty, disgruntled winter,
    the horses’ intense presence was blood,
    was rhythm , was the beckoning of all being.


    I saw, I saw and seeing came to life.
    There I was the unwitting fountain, the dance of gold ,the sky ,
    the fire that sprang to life in beautiful things.


    I have obliterated that gloomy Berlin winter.


    I shall not forget the light from these horses.


    Pablo Neruda
    translated by Alastair Reid

    Scrawler
    June 25, 2006 - 11:10 am
    Come, my love,
    let's go to the movies
    in the village.

    Transparent night
    turns
    like a silent
    mill, grinding out
    stars.
    We enter the
    tine theater, you and I,
    a ferment of children
    and the strong smell of apples.
    Old movies
    are
    secondhand dreams.
    The screen is the color
    of stone, or rain,
    The beautiful victim
    of the villain
    has eyes like pools
    and a voice like a swan;
    the fleetest
    horses in the world
    careen
    at breakneck speed.

    Cowboys
    make
    Swiss cheese of
    the dangerous Arizona
    moon.
    Our hearts in our mouths,
    we thead our way
    through
    these
    cyclones
    of violence
    the death-defying
    duel of the swordsmen in the tower,
    unerring as wasps
    the feathered avalanche
    of Indians,
    a spreading fan on the prairie.

    Many of the
    village
    boys and girls
    have fallen asleep,
    tired after a day in the shop,
    weary of scrubbing kitchens.

    Not we
    my love,
    we'll not lose
    even this one
    dream;
    as long
    as we
    live
    we will claim
    evry minute
    of reality,
    but claim
    dreams s well:
    we
    will dream
    all the dreams.

    ~translated by Margret Sayers Peden ~ Pablo Neruda

    When I was a teenager we all went to the drive-in movies. I had to have been at least 21 before I saw an indoors movie and that was in San Francisco. James Dean (Rebel Without a Cause) and Marlon Brando (The Wild One) were our heros. In the 50s and early 60s all the guys dressed like them with black leather jackets and tight jeans. I can't remember off hand what female actresses there were that we wanted to emulate.

    Oh, by the way who is the next poet that we will be discussing?

    MarjV
    June 25, 2006 - 11:55 am
    Anna, the poem of 'horses' is just spectacular. Took me right for forward to a cold winter day. I can just hear their footsteps clickety-clacking in the cold. Horses are such majestic and, I understand, loving creatures.

    MarjV
    June 25, 2006 - 11:56 am
    Scrawler, the next poet is posted right in the heading. The deceased Australian poet Henry Lawson.

    annafair
    June 25, 2006 - 11:58 am
    Which I didnt notice either but is Henry Lawson an Australian poet,. He was born in a mining town and lost his hearing at 14 Poetry was his way out of that voiceless state .. I have read some of his poems and think it will be an interesting month..

    And drive in theaters required a car ..something my family never owned but lucky for me I had boyfriends who did so I dont recall when I saw the first one but one 4th of July when we arrived * 3 couples 6 people ) the drive in theater was so full we couldnt get in but one of the boys suggested we drive to a cemetary overlooking the theater. We did and had the best seat in the house. We always took our own refreshments so we had soft drinks, candy , and snacks and sat on the ground the picture was clear and the sound loud enough we could hear almost better than from the car speakers. The sound was maintained for those visiting the refreshments stands et al and some people used to leave thier cars and watched from a sort of out door cafe.We felt SO DARING LOL But the best time was when our children were small and we could take them ..With blankets in the back they always went to sleep long before the picture ended and time to go home.They had their favorite stuffed toy , something to drink , and some sort of snack and we didnt have to worry about where they were and no tearful requests to go home.Actually those years were brief ,they only enjoyed this when small but it was great for moms and dads while it lasted. I was just 25 when we went to Europe and only went to the base theaters infrequently and with no TV it was reading and records that filled my life except for travel .I would have to check and see what pictures and stars I never knew I missed. Four years later when we returned the whole world seemed changed. anna

    MarjV
    June 25, 2006 - 12:16 pm
    Well, well, Anna. I hadn't read any of Lawson's bio as yet - like you and Anne, living with hearing loss.

    I was thinking. You said you have trouble because you don't hear the door when someone is there - is there any type of flashing signal you can have to let you know about the door? . I know there is for phones.

    annafair
    June 25, 2006 - 12:29 pm
    Yes there is and I have one but need more. The one I have is upstairs where my computer and bedroom is located and IF I am in the room I see the light and know someone is at the door.. It is a dual thing as it also tells me when the phone rings. But I need one downstairs but what room???I installed a very loud telephone ringer over the door from the kitchen to the den and in the beginning I could hear it but no more .. even when I am standing next to it I understand I can have my door bell ring like a pager but when I asked about it I have to have some very expensive equipement added to the house and if I get one that will let me know when the phone is ringing or the alarm system is working you are speaking of a 1000 dollars ..Now if my dog would ONLY be like the other dogs I had I would be money ahead and also have a live companion !!Fortunately my sense of smell is acute and can smell my nieghbors when they are making coffee early in the mprning or frying bacon so I can smell things in the house as well.That gives me a sense of security ...Thanks for caring ..anna

    Jim in Jeff
    June 25, 2006 - 06:04 pm
    Great posts again this week, great-poetry fans and great forum-friends! What a "great read," is our great SN home here! Thanks mainly to our great hostess-with-mostest, FairAnna, setting it for us!

    I'd planned today to share more of Neruda's 1959 "100 Love Sonnets" to his beloved Matilde Urrutia de Neruda. He called these his "Autumn of life" best years. But I've earlier shared here five posts already: his wonderful "cover letter" dedication, and one poem from each of his four book-divisions: "Morning"; "Afternoon"; "Evening"; "Night." What a lovely labor-of-love surprise to give to one's beloved Lady!

    But those four poems I earlier shared here do fairly represent the gist of his "100 ways to say I love you." Is steamy stuff...never smut, often quite adult in sensual imagery. Also, I see many of your recent posts (of his non-sonnets) offer us some equally steamy poems.

    And just last week I was exiting from my own looong "cold shower" when I passed our FairAnna rushing in. Great minds... do run alike!

    So today I'll offer a few below samplings of "early Neruda." These are similarly steamy poetry oublished in his 1924 hugely popular "Twenty Love Poems and A Song of Despair." At age 20, "roaring hormones" ruled Neruda's roost...as it did us all at age 20, as I dimly recall.

    1. From "Body of a Woman (Cuerpo de mujer)":
    Body of a woman, white hills, white thighs,
    You look like a world, lying in surrender.
    My rough peasant's body digs in you
    and makes the son leap from the depth of the earth.

    Comment: His opening poem leads us into the sweet realm of the senses.

    2. From "Every Day You Play (Juegas todo los di'as)":
    My words rained over you, stroking you.
    A long time I have loved the sunned mother-of-pearl of
    ....your body.
    I go so far as to think that you own the universe.
    I will bring you happy flowers from the mountains,
    ....bluebells,
    dark hazels, and rustic baskets of kisses.
    I want
    to do with you what spring does with the cherry trees.

    Comment: Cold shower time again. Anna, scurry thyself outta there and LET ME use those facilities...lickety-split!

    3. From "The Morning is Full (Es la manana llena)":
    The morning is full of storm
    in the heart of summer.

    The clouds travel like white handkerchiefs of good-bye,
    the wind, traveling, waving them in its hands.

    The numberless heart of the wind
    beating above our loving silence.

    Orchestral and divine, resounding among the trees
    like a language full of wars and songs.

    Comment: Imagery that sings; conjures up our own long-buried longings.

    4. From "Almost out of the Sky (Casi fuera del cielo)":
    Oh to follow the road that leads away from everything,
    without anguish, death, winter waiting along it
    with their eyes open through the dew.

    Comment: Renewal and change are possible; a hint of "hope" for us all?

    The "Twenty Love Poems and a Song of Despair" now selling in bookstores is an affordable paperback by Penguin Classics. Excellent side-by-side English translations by W. W. Merwin. A heart-felt wonderful 12-page Introduction by Cristina Garcia. Several delightful illustrations by Neruda's 1920s contemporary friend, Pablo Picasso. It's a keeper I'll revisit often.

    annafair
    June 25, 2006 - 07:52 pm
    I loved the poems you shared even if I had to take a very cold shower after reading them I DONT recall all those hormones when I was 20 ..and at 20 I am not sure I would have appreciated the poems ..but now I DO ...my favorite is Morning is full and your comment " Imagery that sings" can be applied to almost all of his poetry.

    What I love about his love poems are there sensualty which I wish some of the young poets would take lessons from What kind of a sentence is that ? Some of the young poets who read at the coffee house where I read use such coarse language . Do they think we have never heard that kind of language ? But Neruda uses words so skillfully you never feel offended but some how deep inside you can almost wish either you could have been him at one time or the object of his affection. Good to see you here ..am going to check my book which is The Poetry Of Pablo Neruda editd by Ilan Stavans and has 995 pages from my reading I think it covers all of his books or at least a portion of them I just checked I have 10 of the love songs from your selection and one of despair ..He is so expressive ..I would have loved to have had a conversation with this man. For I think just his everyday language had to sing for him to write this way ..

    Every since I discovered poetry at a very early age there have always been poets and special poems that I read to go along with my feelings I know when I felt extremely sad and needed to cry I always sat alone and read out loud Little Boy Blue by Eugene Field Later other poems would make me weep but as the young person I was then that poem did it for me.. Neruda's poems I will use for many reasons but mostly to see how beautiful language can be. anna

    hats
    June 26, 2006 - 02:55 am
    Anna, I really enjoyed that poem. I could feel the power and grace of a horse in Pablo Neruda's words. I think horses are such beautiful animals. I rode my first horse at the zoo as a child. Then, we went on a church picnic and there were horses to ride. Bill refused to let me ride because I only had four more months before our baby would arrive. Pablo Neruda seems like a man who would love horses. I bet there are many horses in Chile.

    Hi Jim!

    MarjV
    June 26, 2006 - 08:39 am
    REeading Jim's post for the day I can feel my heart wanting to pound like it did back in the very early age of 20.

    Anna, I agree - the smutty language isn't for me either. These poems that Jim posted are subtle & beautiful.

    Reminds me - I've been watching the "Six Feet Under" series on dvd. The characters are great and the events are mostly funny or very dramatic - but every other word or 2 is the 'f' word and I am so tired of it.

    hats
    June 26, 2006 - 09:58 am
    That's terrible.

    Scrawler
    June 26, 2006 - 10:54 am
    I don't believe in age.

    All old people
    carry
    in their eyes
    a child,
    and children
    at times
    observe us with the
    eyes of wise ancients.

    Shall we measure
    life,
    in meters or kilometers
    or months?
    How far since you were born?
    How long
    must you wander
    until
    like all men
    instead of walking on its surface
    we rest below the earth?

    To the man, to the woman
    who utilized their
    energies, goodness, strength,
    anger, love, tenderness,
    to those who truly
    alive
    flowered,
    and in their sensuality matured,
    let us not apply
    the measure
    of a time
    that may be
    something else, a mineral
    mantle, a solar
    bird, a flower,
    something, maybe,
    but not a measure.

    Time, metal
    or bird, long
    periolate flower,
    stretch
    through
    man's life,
    shower him
    with blossoms
    and with
    bright
    water
    or with hidden sun.
    I proclaim you
    road,
    not shroud,
    a pristine
    ladder
    with treads
    of air,
    a suit lovingly
    renewed
    through springtimes
    around the world.

    Now,
    time, I roll you up,
    I deposit you in my
    bait box
    and I am off to fish
    with your long line
    the fishes of the dawn.

    ~ translated by Margaret Sayers Peden ~Pablo Neruda

    I couldn't agree with Neruda more. I too don't believe in age. What is time any way? It is just a measurement nothing more. I like to think that I don't grow old but rather that I grow wise. To me my life has been the search for knowledge which has led to wisdom. And I doubt that my search will ever end because there is so much to learn. So how can I grow old?

    Anna, my son-in-law installed an answering machine which has a phone in each room. They all ring at once which drives my cat crazy, but I know that I have a phone close by wherever I am. [There's also a phone jack in my bathroom in my apartment, but I feel that's going a little to far; so I haven't used it.] As far as the door is concerned, I don't have a doorbell, but a knocker. My cat usually tells me when somebody is at the door so you have to trip over her to get to the door to open it.

    Jeff nice to see you. Love the poems.

    hats
    June 26, 2006 - 11:09 am
    Scrawler, thank you for posting "Ode to Age." I don't think numbers matter either. Our age is dependent on our attitude toward life, I think. Constantly I need to work on my attitude. It's a lifetime project. I love your comment, Scrawler. So, I am going to repost it.

    "I couldn't agree with Neruda more. I too don't believe in age. What is time any way? It is just a measurement nothing more. I like to think that I don't grow old but rather that I grow wise. To me my life has been the search for knowledge which has led to wisdom. And I doubt that my search will ever end because there is so much to learn. So how can I grow old? "

    annafair
    June 26, 2006 - 02:31 pm
    I lie about my age all the time but dont consider it lying I am telling the truth I AM 22 in my heart, my mind and my spirit When I admit to my real age then people suddenly treat me differently ..wanting to help me across the street If I need it I would be thankful but instead being short ( 5') and they are usually taller it makes it awkward and what is worse when they know my real age suddenly they treat me like I am senile and patronize me ..GADS that angers me ...

    I am going to Radio Shack and take my phones and buy maybe 4 more that would make 6 and they say this phone can handle 10 auxillary phones..I want one everywhere and since they are portable I have taken them with me in the bathroom in case someone calls! But then I say Can I call you back ? Dont want them to know where I am LOL

    The f word ..sometimes I think that is the ONLY word in our vocabulary HOW uncouth and offensive I wish everyone would find themselves a GOOD dictionary and read it and use it . If I rent a movie and the F word or a similiar word or words occurs to often in the first 5 min I refuse to watch any more and take it back for an exchange I am not going to spend my time with people who call themselves actors whose vocabulary is limited to 4 letter words unless they are love, work, kind, dear,, love etc I love the word love ..am sneaking in here between thunderboomers and I mean BOOMERS the rain is falling almost like from open spigots ..nothing gentle or pouring this rain is drenching .. Love Neruda and am thankful for all the poems posted and thoughts shared I think even after we move on I will have to sneak in a PN once in awhile . have to go I hear rain on my skylight GOD BLESS. anna

    hats
    June 27, 2006 - 06:16 am
    Walking on the sands
    I decided to leave you.


    I was treading a dark clay
    that trembled
    and I, sinking and coming out,
    decided that you should come out
    of me, that you were weighing me down
    like a cutting stone,
    and I worked out your loss
    step by step:
    to cut off your roots,
    to release you alone into the wind.


    This is not the whole poem. I think this one is about loss. Pablo Neruda may have been talking about a country or a relationship. I can only speak about relationships. Losing people we love is so hard. It is heavy. It is felt "step by step." Is it a process of grief that never ends?

    hats
    June 27, 2006 - 06:21 am
    Maybe Pablo Neruda feels that this loss will revive him, bring health back to his life.

    annafair
    June 27, 2006 - 06:37 am
    I am hoping to get this in before another storm comes my way. We have had it mild here with only minor flooding and while I feel grateful I am torn by the scenes further North of serious flooding.

    This poem is from Canto General which Neruda workd on for 12 years and his longest and most sustained effort at a poetc vision of history so we have to look beyond the simple to the deeper meaning in each poem ..hope all is well with you ...anna

    CANTO GENERAL
    1938-1949


    SADDLERY


    For me this saddle designed
    like a heavy rose in silver and leather,
    gently sloped, smooth and durable.
    Every cut is a hand , every
    stitch a life in which the unity
    of forest lives, a chain of eyes
    and horses, lives on.
    Grains o f wheat shaped it,
    woodlands and water hardened it,
    the opulent harvest gave it pride,
    metal and wrought morocco leather;
    and so from misfortune and dominion,
    this throne set forth through the meadowlands.


    Pablo Neruda
    translated Jack Schmitt


    As usual with Neruda’s poems we find they have a dual meaning. He is describing a saddle but in my mind I see he is also describing his county His Chile, He is affected at every level with the problems of his country and I think that is normal We cant divorce ourselves from what shapes our thinking and what has happened in our lives .

    annafair
    June 27, 2006 - 06:55 am
    In my book that poem is from The Captain's Verses He is living abroad and this collection was written about his love for Matilde Urrutia It was originally published anonymously because as he said he didnt want to wound Delia whom he was leaving.

    There seems to be some indication that Matilde and he had temporarily separated and I wonder did he feel he should give up this love affair ? the words seem to indicate that and the rest of the poem that in the end he could not give her up.

    And while it didnt happen to me I understand that in some people there comes a time when you still love them but no longer are in love with them You still care for them but something else has given you a new purpose It can be love for another person or in can be love for some thing you feel you must pursue ..I think for Neruda it was both ..by the way I have read the whole poem and what can I say ? In spite of the fact it at first describes his reasons for cutting her out of his life he then tells why he cant. And again I think all of his poetry is also about Chile and how he felt about it he is living away from Chile , he longs to be there, he aches to be there ..and so everything is tied up with those deeper feelings anna

    hats
    June 27, 2006 - 07:14 am
    Anna, I have the same feelings you have about the poem. I should have posted the whole poem at once because Pablo Neruda does go through a change of heart in the poem. His words made me think of that old verse,

    He loves me
    He loves me not


    I will go ahead and finish typing the whole poem. Thank you for your input.

    hats
    June 27, 2006 - 07:19 am
    Ah in that minute,
    my dear, a dream
    with its terrible wings
    was covering you.


    You felt yourself swallowed by the clay,
    and you called to me and I did not come,
    you were going, motionless,
    without defending yourself
    until you were smothered in the quicksand.


    Afterwards
    my decision encountered your dream,
    and from the rupture
    that was breaking our hearts
    we came forth clean again, naked,
    loving each other
    without dream, without sand,
    complete and radiant,
    sealed by fire.


    I do get the feeling of indecision about the relationship. Then, a feeling of neediness or desire to never let go. I remember a song, "Breaking up is very hard to do."

    "Sealed by fire." Their relationship went through a hard spot and their love did not die. Their love became stronger. I love the imagery in this poem: the quicksand, wind, dark clay, etc.

    hats
    June 27, 2006 - 07:22 am
    I guess it's best to always try and post a whole poem at once. The mood or tone or action can reverse through the middle and to the end of the poem.

    hats
    June 27, 2006 - 07:25 am
    I liked "Saddlery" by Pablo Neruda immediately. Anna, thank you for posting it. These are my favorite lines.

    Every cut is a hand , every
    stitch a life in which the unity
    of forest lives, a chain of eyes
    and horses, lives on.

    hats
    June 27, 2006 - 07:27 am
    I can't imagine how it must feel to live in exile from your country. Pablo Neruda must have lived through many painful days.

    Scrawler
    June 27, 2006 - 10:46 am
    To rise to the sky you need
    two wings,
    a vioin,
    and so many things
    incalcuable things, things without names,
    a license for a large slow-moving eye,
    the inscription on the nails of the almond tree,
    the titles of the grass in the morning.

    ~ translated Alastair Reid ~ Pablo Neruda

    Thanks for all your great posts. This is a very strange little poem. Any ideas as to what it means? It starts out simple enough - reaching for the sky and the things that might be needed. But than again maybe this isn't quite so simle is it? It really is hard to reach for the sky.

    MarjV
    June 27, 2006 - 12:27 pm
    Synopsis:
    One of Pablo Neruda's own favorites among his books, Extravagaria marks an important stage in the progress of his poetry. It was written at the point in his life when he had returned to Chile after many wanderings and moved to Isla Negra on the Pacific coast. These writings celebrate this coming to rest, this rediscovery of the sea and the land, for in Extravagaria Neruda evolved a lyric poetry that is decidedly more personal than his earlier work. Written in what he called his "autumnal" period, the sixty-eight poems range from the wistful to the exultant, combining psalm and speculation, meditation and humorous aside.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 27, 2006 - 09:36 pm
    Scrawler I think what he is saying in the excerpt that you posted from Extravagaria is that reaching is what we think of but he is saying To rise - that suggests to me more than reaching but actually accomplishing what we reach for - it seems to me he is suggesting to accomplish our feats we need more than perseverance and work ethic but luck, the ability to observe the little things that will matter and only seen when we slow down, and love -

    Driving the nail means keeping a vow to another - As long as the nail remains the contact remains - drawing out the nail is breaking the contract -

    The Almost tree is "The story of Phyllis and Demophoon is from Ovid's Heroides and relates how Phyllis, Queen of Thrace, fell in love with Demophoon, son of Theseus and Phaedra, when he stayed at her court on his return from the Trojan War. He stayed in Thrace several months, and on sailing for Athens he promised to return to Phyllis within a month. He did not return, and the Gods took pity on poor Phyllis by transforming her into an almond tree. When Demophoon finally returned to Thrace and heard of Phyllis' fate he ran to the tree and embrassed it. The tree suddenly burst into blossom, momentarily turning back into Phyllis." Phyllis and Demophoon

    Painting of Phyllis and Demophoon and finally Ovid's poem explaining the perilous journey of love between Phyllis and Demophoon which can easily be understood as a journey towards anything we love that if achieved would make us feel we have risen to the sky.

    Not sure on this one but would "titles on grass" mean those who have won a championship tennis match on grass - not only is the title as fleeting as the morning but they are in the morning of their life to achieve this feat and therefore, only the few can achieve this rise to the sky...?

    Scrawler
    June 28, 2006 - 02:29 pm
    That's Barbara for your explanations. I do love myths and tales like the ones you discussed.

    Point:

    There is no space wider than that of grief
    there is no universe like that which bleeds.

    ~ Translated by Alastair Reid ~ from Extravagaria (1957-1958) ~Pablo Neruda

    This is short that may be simply a passing thought rather than a poem, but it is so true.

    annafair
    June 29, 2006 - 08:20 am
    While we here missed the flooding further north we did not miss the thunderstorms , the rain like a waterfall falling ..so I have been off my computer ..Tomorrow I will be away and when I return home I will look for a poem by Henry Lawson. I am both looking forward to reading a new poet and looking back to a month of good poetry with unique and sometimes obscure meanings ..My cache of poetry books is becoming so numerous I will soon need to devote a room just for them

    I thank each of you for the poems you shared , for your thoughts , for your feelings ..and I am leaving with a short poem that is listed on line but not in my book. It sort of made me laugh since I have written poems to slugs, spiders, catterpillars and moths. In any case here it is ...see you and Henry Lawson on Saturday. JULY 1 can that be true? anna While I was preparing this poem for sharing I was reminded of a time when I was very young The street in front of our home was being widened...losing some of our front yard and to eventaully become Route 66 Each block was torn up and traffic rerouted ..since they were using cement for the road there were huge sand piles everywhere and wouldnt you know they harbored fleas. Everyone had a basement full of these tiny, voracious , black biting insects . My parents would not allow us to go down into the basement as our legs would be covered with black biting fleas, when I say it looked like we had stockings of them I am not kidding. My father bought something to kill them but eventaully some company had to come and spray against them I think though by that time the sand piles had been depleted, used and gone and the fleas with them And St Clair Avenue became part of the Highway West...Made it more interesting since we now had a lot more traffic to watch ...anna

    Fleas interest me so much


    Fleas interest me so much
    that I let them bite me for hours.
    They are perfect, ancient, Sanskrit,
    machines that admit of no appeal.
    They do not bite to eat,
    they bite only to jump;
    they are the dancers of the celestial sphere,
    delicate acrobats
    in the softest and most profound circus;
    let them gallop on my skin,
    divulge their emotions,
    amuse themselves with my blood,
    but someone should introduce them to me.
    I want to know them closely,
    I want to know what to rely on.


    Pablo Neruda

    CathieS
    June 29, 2006 - 08:26 am
    ..........was I dreaming, or did I hear tell of Edna St Vincent Millay coming up here in the fall for discussion? TIA...just passing through.

    annafair
    June 29, 2006 - 08:45 am
    Your ears have not decieved you .. In August we will have a month long discussion of Millays poems. I was one of the discussion leaders a few years ago when we read The Savage Beauty and am pleased to offer a month long discussion of her poetry.

    She was one of the first "modern" poets I admired and memorized one of her poems because I found it so special. It appealed to the young girl I was at the time and has never lost it's charm for me..

    Hope we will see you here ...anna

    Alliemae
    June 29, 2006 - 08:58 am
    Well, the conference was wonderful!! And it's taking me a lot of time to go through the posts and poetry posted since I have been gone. I've even printed them out because there is no way I'm going to do this at the computer when I can enjoy these marvelous poems and posts in a nice cozy chair with a cup of tea!

    I did come across something that I'd love to share with our Classics group. Scrawler has posted (#1270) a few lines from Extravagaria (1957-1958) and Barbara St. Aubrey (post #1272) has commented on it also giving us links to paintings and a copy of a poem she referred to in her interpretation of the poem which was written by Ovid explaining The Almost tree.

    Would it be allright if I shared the lines by Neruda and the links about The Almost tree with our Classics (Latin) section? I believe some of the upperclassmen may be reading Ovid and I think seeing his connection to a modern poet such as Pablo Neruda will be very interesting to them. Also, as I've never cross-posted before (or at least don't remember having done so) should I put our posters' names or not?

    Please anna and Scrawler and Barbara and others with comments please let me know what is okay to do.

    Thanks, and now I'm off to read some more of the poems and comments I missed while away!! They all look truly great...Alliemae

    CathieS
    June 29, 2006 - 09:08 am
    Hope we will see you here ...anna

    Definitely, anna. She's my favorite and I'm so glad I asked since it's coming up soon. I only have one other book going in August, so this will be great! I read SAVAGE BEAUTY and also bought an anthology of her poems at that time. Looking forward to it, anna.

    Scrawler
    June 29, 2006 - 09:47 am
    So is My Life:

    My duty moves along with my song:
    I am I am not: that is my destiny.
    I exist not if I do not attend to the pain
    of those who suffer: they are my pains.
    For I cannot be without existing for all,
    for all who are silent and oppressed,
    I come from the people and I sing for them:
    my poetry is song and punishment.
    I am told: you belong to darkness.
    Perhaps, perhaps, but I walk toward the light.
    I am the man of bread and fish
    and you will not find me among books,
    but with women and men:
    they have taught me the infinite.

    ~ traslated by Miguel Algarin ~ Pablo Neruda

    Correction of early post: I was thanking Barbara for her explanations. Some how it came out "that's" when it was supposed to be "thanks." Must have been those 100 degree temperatures. It fired my brain.

    I would have to agree with this poem. I too think Neruda is a poet of the people. He feels their pain and it becomes his own.

    Barbara St. Aubrey
    June 29, 2006 - 10:12 am
    hehehe - That's may be more appropriate - I know, I do wax on...

    annafair
    June 29, 2006 - 10:47 am
    answer to Alliemae's question please tell us how you feel I think it would be fine if you use a poem and an explanation. We dont have rights to the poems and while you want to use someones ideas I think if you worded it thus

    Over in poetry ( LOL that might induce some to join us sneaky Huh? ) we have been discussing the poet Pablo Neruda and a couple of the posters mentioned one of his poems could be explained by a poem written by OVID and give the link ..All of the discussions on SN are open to anyone and I think it is beneficial when we can share and help others to a better understanding of what they are reading.

    I cant feel anyone here would object but I am suggesting if you do to let not just Alliemae know but all..I think it would only enhance everyone's understanding...We are all here to learn and share so I would say GO FOR IT ALLIEMAE anna

    AND LAST but not least SO GLAD you're back...

    MarjV
    June 29, 2006 - 11:03 am
    I think posts should be freely shared on SrNet from here as Anna suggests above.

    hats
    June 29, 2006 - 11:40 am
    Welcome Scootz!

    Welcome back Alliemae and Barbara!

    hats
    June 29, 2006 - 12:58 pm
    Anna, I am finally getting the fun and joy in this one. At times, I am slow. Thank you for give us a light moment.

    they are the dancers of the celestial sphere,
    delicate acrobats
    in the softest and most profound circus;
    let them gallop on my skin,

    Jim in Jeff
    June 29, 2006 - 01:54 pm
    Alliemae: If you wish to cite elsewhere on SN, a thought expressed here...you could ALSO post THERE a link to it HERE. It's done often elsewhere on SN.

    1. While reading a post you'd like to recommend elsewhere: RIGHT-CLICK on its message-number (such as this msg's 1285 in header-line). Then at drop-down menu, left-click on COPY SHORTCUT. (This will save a link to that msg in YOUR PC's "invisible clipboard.")

    2. Go to the other area of SN's forums where you'd like to recommend this msg-thread, and begin to compose a POST there. Then, in body of your composing-post, do a PASTE. (Either a control/V or an option off EDIT in one's top-most screen-header line.) This inserts (pastes) the link you've earlier saved to clipboard...into body of your composing-post.

    You can then explain the purpose of your link...above or below the pasted link. Do not be unduly alarmed at some of the link's looks...SN makes it look a bit better to viewers...after you POST it.

    AFTER anyone posts an SN forum msg, he/she has 30 minutes to view it as posted, and either EDIT (change it a bit) or DELETE it. After 30 minutes, the EDIT/DELETE buttons disappear from poster's view of the msg..

    Jim in Jeff
    June 29, 2006 - 02:46 pm
    Scootz...Welcome. Please don't "scoot thru here" too fast to take time to enjoy our poems and posts...OK? In your "profile pic," I wonder: are you that handsome lad on left...or that handsomer lass on right?

    Besides you, many other long-regular forum friends here also haven't shared themselves in SN's "profiles." O'well.

    CathieS
    June 29, 2006 - 03:59 pm
    Jim in Jeff,

    Happy to make your acquaintance! The handsome lad on the left would be my hub, Dan. The other one is moi. And thanks for the compliment.

    I did have info in my profile, but deleted it and need to do it over. By the time you read this, it's there!

    Jim in Jeff
    June 29, 2006 - 04:09 pm
    This month we've discussed Neruda's poetry (sans politics). Hallelujah!

    However...a poet's output, per force, MUST be a product of his/her times. Neruda's formative years were 1920s...his contemporaries: Picasso, Matisse, Ravel, Debussy, Stravinsky. 1920s were a new era--for both the performing and physical Arts.

    But Chile's politics DID influence his poetry. We ought not totally ignore his life's "politics" (a major factor in his poetry, I think).

    For starters: Neruda actively joined Chile's left-wing Communist party...at a time when USA was in a deadly "cold war" with Communism.

    At that time there was no hint of "Pinochet's subsequent decades of horrible right-wing attrocies in Chile. One example of those "horrors" is this link about folksinger/protester Victor Jara's martyrdom by the right-wing Pinochet regime: http://www.msu.edu/~chapmanb/jara/evida.html

    Scootz...thanks a million for sharing you/yours with me/us more fully here...!



    .

    MarjV
    June 30, 2006 - 01:48 pm
    Since Saturday starts our new month:

    E-texts: Henry Lawson

    Alliemae
    June 30, 2006 - 03:05 pm
    Thanks for the Welcome Backs!

    Also, thanks for the tips (anna and Jim) on how to post the info to my Latin Classics board from here (or vice-versa)...I'm still thinking about working on that. Also still reading...I was amazed to see that it looks like almost 1,000 posts just from Fri-Mon???

    Hope to be back before the next poet(tomorrow!)...

    Alliemae

    Scrawler
    June 30, 2006 - 03:17 pm
    From my Journey

    From my journey I circle back -
    why?
    Why didn't I return to my homeland,
    the streets, countries, continents, islands
    I once owned and called home?
    Why, instead, did this borderland choose me;
    and what does this haven offer
    but a wind that whips at my face
    and flowers blackened and beaten down
    by the long winter?
    Oh, they accuse me, saying: He is
    so lazy, Master of Rust,
    who cannot bear to leave
    his hard heaven-
    he just slowed, then stopped
    until his eyes turned to stone
    and the ivy veiled his gaze.

    ~ translated by April Bernard

    ~"Homage" Fourteen other ways of looking at Pablo Neruda

    I thought this would be an appropriate poem to end this discussion about Pablo Neruda. Can't you feel his passion in this poem? Above all I think this emotion shimmers through all of his poems whatever the subject matter may be. Without passion we become empty.

    patwest
    June 30, 2006 - 05:47 pm
    ---Poetry ~ New