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A Blonde Guy Joke!!!

An Irishman, a Mexican, and a Blonde Guy were doing construction work

on scaffolding on the 20th floor of a building. They were eating lunch

and the Irishman said, "Corned Beef and Cabbage! If I get Corned Beef

and Cabbage one more time for lunch, I'm going to jump off this building."

The Mexican opened his lunch box and exclaimed, "Burritos again! If I

get burritos one more time I'm going to jump off, too."

The blonde opened his lunch and said, Bologna again! If I get a Bologna

sandwich one more time, I'm jumping too."

The next day, the Irishman opened his lunch box, saw Corned Beef and Cabbage, and jumped to his death.

The Mexican opened his lunch, saw a Burrito, and jumped, too.

The blonde guy opened his lunch, saw the Bologna , and jumped to his death as well. At the funeral, the Irishman's wife was weeping. She said, "If I'd known how really tired he was of Corned Beef and Cabbage,

I never would have given it to him again!"

The Mexican's wife also wept and said, "I could have given him Tacos or

Enchiladas! I didn't realize he hated Burritos so much."

(Oh this is GOOD!!)

Everyone turned and stared at the blonde's wife. The blonde's wife said, "Don't look at me. He makes his own lunch."

Hahah Ann, you're always such a hoot! How are you in Ohio with those storms? How is Ella? Tell her we miss her!

We have a rural mail box here, it's about 1/3 mile from the house, tho people like to ride by with bats and hit it, ours is reinforced and will give one's arm quite the little shock.

I've finished my second Ripley, and am launched into Ripley's Game. I think Under Ground is the weakest of the lot, too much casual killing and much too much detached gore, I am thinking that she got it all out with this one and will be back to normal with the next 3, thing did not hang together, started well, tho.

Yesterday in the car repair I read 8/10ths of the new paperback Running With Scissors, on every best seller list, and got up at 4 am and finished it. Haven't some of you discussed it here?

Have any of you read it? If so what did you think of it? It's supposed to be funny? I thought it was pathetic and I hope it's exaggerated, I really do. Boy can he write, tho, but the end was pitiful and the whole, to me, quite sad. Very sad. His new book, the excerpt of which is in the back, looks just as readable and interesting, but the thing is so deliberately outré it's hard to deal with it, anybody read it?

If every book read that fast and well, tho, I'd be reading one a day.

It seems to pander to the voyeur in us all, another thing I reallly dislike about the MEMOIR as a genre, I mean....why? Why tell all? Even if you are as dispassionate as a curate, somebody , if they are strange, is going to look bad? I mean, so you had an incredibly dysfunctional childhood, like a madhouse. So?

Speaking of strange attitudes, have you seen the Newsweek My Turn in the new issue? Guy is tired of platitudes, wants something with some teeth in it, I bet he gets some in return! Well on to I Feel Earthquakes Even When They Are Not Happening or whatever it's called.

I hope those of you in the path of that horrendous chain of tornadoes are safe!

I really think non fiction is easier to read than fiction if you are busy. You can pick it up and put it down and it does not engage you like good fiction does. Do you agree? Or not???

We have post boxes on every corner practically. I have one just up the road and one two streets away. I rarely use snail mail now. Bills are paid online or by direct debit. Cards are sent mostly electronically and I fax or email relatives overseas or in other parts of the country! Now to get rid of junk mail out of the mail box!

Carolyn

I agree non fiction is easier to pick up and put down.

I have noticed something as I have gotten older. I remember lots of facts from non fiction I have read but a year after I read a novel I can hardly remember the finer details of the plot! Is it because I am getting older or I haven't read that many memorable books lately?

carolyn

Our discussion of the fourth volume (The Age of Faith) of Durant's "Story of Civilization" is nearing an end. We have only two sections of the book to eomplete. The current topic is "The Age of Romance" followed by "Dante." Some of you folks might like to join us as we enter the romantic fourteenth century. The following posting of Durant's words gives you an idea of where we are headed.

Click HERE to join us. robert b. iadeluca - 04:50am Sep 24, 2006 PT (#732 of 732) Books Discussion Leader

"Every age is an age of romance for men cannot live by bread alone and imagination is the staff of life.

"Perhaps the twelfth and thirteenth centuries in Europe were slightly more romantic than most periods. Besides inheriting all the mystic creatures of Europe's faery lore, they accepted the Christian epic in all the beauty and terror of its vision.

"They made an art and religion of love and war, they saw the Crusades, they imported a thousand tales and wonders from the East.

"In any case they wrote the longest romances known to history.

"The growth of wealth and leisure and laic literacy, the rise of towns and the middle class, the development of universities, the exaltation of women in religion and chivalry -- all furthered the literary flowering.

"As schools multiplied, Cicero, Virgil, Horace, Ovid, Livy, Sallust, Lucan, Seneca, Statius, Juvenal, Quintilian, Suetonius, Apuleius, Sidonius, even the ribald Marrial and Petronius, brightened with their art and exotic world many a pedagogic or monastic retreat, perhaps, here and there, some palace bower.

"From Jerome to Alcuin to Heloise and Hildebert, Christian souls stole minutes from their Hours to chant the Aeneid's music silently.

"The University of Orleans particularly cherixhed the classics of pagan Rome and a horrified puritan complained that it was the old gods, not Christ or Mary, that were worshiped there. The twelfth century was almost 'the Age of Ovid.' He dethroned then the Virgil whom Alcuin had made the poet laureate of Charlemagne's court, and monks and ladies and 'wandering scholars' alike read with delight the Metamorphoses, the Heroides, and the Art of Love.

"We can forgive many a benedictine carouse to the monks who preserved these damned souls so lovingly and taught them so devotedly to the reluctant, then grateful, young."

Robby

I have been thinking and the answer surprisingly is that I do remember non fiction better than fiction.. Biographies to be exact. I keep little pieces of information tucked away.. Not that I want to, they just seem to stick. Went to see Black Dahlia last night. I must get the book by Ellroy.. It took 85% of the movie before I could figure out what was happening and the rest to figure out why.. Darndest picture I ever saw.. Absolutely beautilly filmed however. Hilary Swank as a sex machine was good and utterly different than her previous roles.

Ah Stephanie, that's why I like DVDs, aside from them being a necessity. When I get to parts I don't understand I just rerun, or watch the move a second time.

I love to badmouth our postal service, no mail boxes, etc. But then I a remember when daughter Judy first went to live in Guatemala. She went to the nearest town to see about getting a postal box and was told to come back another day because they were all busy -- someone had burned the mail. So she went back later. "Where is your box?" the postal people asked. It seems everyone supplied their own box, and somewhere, I don't even remember if it is film or digital, I have a picture of that post office with its assortment of boxes. Oh yes, she also had to supply her own lock. Needless to say, we didn't use this method of communication very often, and anything financial made a circuitous route thru US Mail to someone who would be travelling there in person.

just noticed that CSPAN 3 is repeating their '01 programming on Lewis and Clark......jean

I watched a Hillary Swank movie last night that i'd never even heard of before, "The Affair of the Necklace". The story is about Jeanne Valois and is supposedly based on fact and how her life helped to bring down Marie Antoinnette and Louis. The movie story is kind of spotty, but the scenes of the palaces and the landscapes were wonderful. I can't imagine why i never heard about it coming out in 2003. I love Hillary S and also in it is Simon Baker, who i also love - his 18th century accent needed some work, but who cared. Adrien Brody, Joely Richardson (Marie A), Jonathan Pryce and Christopher Walken are also in it.Have any of you seen it?......jean

Mabel, Isn't that in the "Three musketeers" by Alexander Dumas? As a book it was outstanding, gripping, unforgettable!

Adrian Brody.. He is just too too twitchy for me. Cannot bear to watch him. Just saw HollywoodLand.. LIked it, but did not like him.

Ah, ROBBY, how enticing a post. Drat..I don't have time to read Durant! Can I just drop in, read the posts, and maybe be so brash as to make an occasional observation on the subject under discussion? From a non-Durant vista, of course.

Babi

Babi:-Your brash occasional observations would be most welcome. We get brash at times ourselves.

Robby

Stephanie: I just saw "The Black Dahlia," too. Good period film! I love those James Ellroy dark detective novels. L.A. Confidential was so good and they did such a fabulous job with the movie. I saw "Hollywoodland," too. I do like Adrien Brody, but I think he usually makes a better gangster or hood type than hero. I loved him in "The Pianist."

Ginny: What a story about your mailbox getting whacked with bats! Good grief! That's just like out of "Stand By Me." Did you see that?

An article about String Theory for WINSUM-CLAIRE and anyone who wants to read it.

For some reasons in some communities, the local male yahoos get out and mow down and destroy mailboxes.. Never understood the urge and most communities forbid the use of concrete blocks and poured concrete as liable to injure cars.. Hmpphhhh.

We've had the same problem here in rural area with mailboxes by the road. How smashing a mailbox with a bat shows you're a "man" is, to me, in the same category as those who smash other people's outdoor decorations...pumpkins, decorative items whatever the season. How any of that shows what a "man"["Woman"/"adult"] you are escapes my reasoning.

No I didn't, Marni, like Jane and Stephanie I am sorry to report it happens all the time out here, people ride by in trucks destroying rural mailboxes with a bat, they stand in the back of a pick up truck. Ours is still standing, unlike many others, some of which belong to people who can't afford a new one or who physically can't put up a new one, it's really ...I'd like to get my hands on them.

Ours is reinforced in such a way inside that it causes serious arm pain to the striker, but we have not had to replace 10 of them as we have had to in the past, they are expensive, large and difficult to install.

There was a story going around and it may not be true about some people doing this type of thing and one had just hit a mail box and was leaning out of the truck to see how bad it was hit when the next one coming down the road hit him and killed him. I don't think that can be true but the very fact it's making the rounds shows you the depth of feeling.

Our personal box has so many dents in it which cause the black paint to have fallen off it looks like a pinto pony. But it's still there, and it's solidy concreted in the ground.

and in the end, unless you want to believe in god it all comes down to this.

Theory of Nothing or Theory of theory. . .

there are in science today too many bright people with not enough to do with their noodles. rendering something into nothing is hard work. . . this is hilarious and leaves us with what we had all along. MYSTERY.

Claire

Recently we had molotov cocktails used to destroy wood mail boxes in our street. It was interesting to note that the boxes chosen belonged to people who did not have white skin. We have a new apartment complex in a neighbouring street. The rents are not cheap but there seems to have been a group of youths who moved into these apartments with their parents and have created havoc ever since. I did notice last Saturday night there were no races round our streets in cars and no drag racing down our street so I hope the police at last have caught the culprits. There were three youths I think who were causing all this trouble.

You ask why mailboxes get attacked when the big movie money-maker of the week-end is "Jackass 2"??? As long as men w/ 12 yr old mentalities are making movies and tv shows that encourage 12 yr old insane male behavior, your mailboxes are in danger!!.....sorry "sane guys," - and i know there are a lot of you out there - but our world is in danger because of overblown testosterone-controlled behavior of adult men thru out the world......jean

Steph its a good thing we don't have those rules here. My oldest son's box kept getting knocked around so he had a small fortress build put brick all around the outside and had a opening made for the paper and the mail. Nobody is going to hit that thing without getting hurt. Funny story now that I get going. #1s son was 16 last year and got a truck for his birthday and took off on that first big boy trip. Packed his bag drove himself to school then took off about 75 miles from here to stay the week-end with his cousin. Sat night about 3AM the phone rang, Bills thinking oh my god the first night that Shane is not under my roof and now what. He answered it and the man says Mr. Cowin?? Billy say yes and the man says this is the Washington State Patrol and I am at the end of your drive way. He says somebody hit your mail box bill says well can't you just leave a paper in the box and the cop says Ah Come On Down, so he climbs out of bed and goes through the gate and there is a car, who hit a tree took the bark off it then was dead centered 1/2 way up bills mail box. They had to pay him 1200.00 to move it back the foot she shoved. You should hear him tell the story, but how would YOU like to get that phone call on the first night of your 16 year old is out on his own????

It sounds funny when you tell it about Bill's son, but believe me the first nights all of our 3 sons had the car out were anything but funny nights. I remember being extremely nervous until they got in the door safely--actually almost all the nights they were out driving. I'm glad I'm long past that period of my life! Sue

mabel1015j: Well said - great post! I shook my head in disgust when I heard that "Jackass 2" was the top grossing movie over last weekend. ("grossing" is a good word for it.) Yes, the movie producers cater to the 12 to 15 year old mentality. The problem is that that particular mentality doesn't stop at age 15 for most of todays young men, but extends on into their 30's and 40's.

Both sons did their share of totalling a car each before reaching age 17, and fender bending until age 20. There was nothing serious after that. But it amazes me now to note that the 2 sons (my Grandsons) of these 2 car wrecking sons have never had an accident.

Ah that explains everything. A stupid movie and kids with zero brain cells!

I am listening to an audio tape which is narrated by someone called Matt Dillon. I suddenly realised how fast most Americans speak and how strong some dialects are! I am having difficulty following the narrator! Its called "On the Road" by Jack Kerouac. On the jacket it says" Chronicles Jack Kerouacs years travelling North America with his friend Neal Cassady. Kerouac died in Florida at the age of 47." It was set in 1950's underground America.

On the Road was very popular with the hippy crowd and young people who were intrigued by Kerouac's flaunting of society's rules and regulations. I don't remember lots about it, but it's still popular with many young (and older) people who like to thumb their noses at authority. Sue

Kiwi Lady How strange you mentioned listening to On the Road. as I'm about 2/3rds through it at the moment. My son mentioned he had bought a copy recently and asked did I know about Kerouac (He was hoping to catch me out). I read it long years ago in the 1960s perhaps but thought I'd better run through it again so I can try and say something halfway sensible about it. I enjoyed it first time as it was so avante garde in those days - now even though it has plenty to say I think the narrative becomes just a little too repetitive. Interesting that the Kerouac character, Sal Paradise is already a published writer and keeps his notebook at the ready even on the road...

I had a cousin who worshipped Kerouac.. Not me.. But she lived with us. She painted her room black, including the ceiling, took out the bed and slept on the mattress on the floor and wore black for an entire year.. Nothing but black.The funny thing was that she was a teacher at this point.. When we were in the rv in Texas and Oklahoma, we noted that many rural mailboxes had bullet holes in them. Was told by a friend that this is quite common in rural areas there. That was scary..

And those of you in the upper midwest will remember the young man who was traveling Wisconsin/Iowa putting bombs into people's rural mail boxes at random. They'd open the box to get their mail and be injured/maimed. They finally found him...and now he's in prison/mental facility. For awhile, all the doors that are normally on a rural mailbox were removed...some replaced later with plexiglass so person and mailperson could see in before opening, etc. People were very scared, as you might imagine. A lot of kids get off the school bus and pick up the family mail as they walk the lane/drive back to their homes in the early afternoon.

Kerouac was quite the icon of the hippy sixties as I recall. As Stephanie said, some seemed to "worship" him.

jane

Jane, I remember him. Was that the Unibomber or someone else?

No, the unibomber was another guy who mailed bombs to people. This kid was Lucas Helder who was making a "smiley face" on the map with his bombs. We heard a lot about it because he was tried in federal court in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Story from 2002: http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/05/09/mailbox.pipebombs/

Oh, I do remember hearing about those smiley faces on the news. Thanks for the link to the story. That's frightening.

When we lived in the Outback(Australia) all the road signs were peppered with bullet holes. Most men carried a rifle for dispensing injured animals etc, but those signs were just asking for it!

My sister and I were talking about accents.I said when I read on the internet everyone talked with an Aussie accent in my mind. She said when she was in America she found that half the time she couldn't make out what people were saying.I'm always amazed too by how fast my DIL and her Slovakian family speak.

Puzzling yesterday about name changes, as my old atlas said Rumania and now we all say Romania. Also we always said Moslem and now it's printed as Muslim. Was surprised too when Tatiana said their name for Slovakia was Slovensko. Is that harder to say? They seem on a par to me.

Our English versions of foreign place names are rarely the same as they are written by those who live there, I suspect. I have an Atlas, (not one I esp. like, but there were dozens to choose from?) that insists on using the proper place names in their own language. Fortunately, they do list the English version also, and make you go from there to the correct version.

As for correct pronunciation, forget it! You can't even get that within our own country. There are people all over the USA who will insist that 'Houston' is pronounced 'house-ton'! The city was name after Sam Houston, and is pronounced as 'Hewston'. There! Now you know!

Babi

And don't forget "nuclear" pronounced "nucular"!

So how do you Pronounce,,,, PRO-nounce? I hear announcers pronounce this word Per-nounce, hear ministers say it wrong, do you?

Well people like me who speak English English say PRonounce The emphasis on the PR but a definate O sound following.

I am reading a non fiction in large print by Tom Brokaw about his early life and his home region of South Dakota its called "A long way from home". He comes from very ordinary folks and his description of his very much loved family is heartfelt and warm.

carolyn

I've always pronounced it proNOUNCE. that is California for ya. . . claire

I do too Claire, but I can't speak for all Australians. My father said it that way too and he went to an English Grammar School. In the 50's Australian newsreaders had to speak like BBC presenters to get a job. It's so much better now that they sound like well-educated Australians and we have our own identity.

Things that drive me nuts... Amurica instead of America and budniss instead of business. The number of tv announcers who do both is nuts.

And the latest, almost universal "tearists" instead of terrorists. I guess it's just too much trouble to say an extra syllable.

We say "proNOUNCE" here in the northeast. The only people I've ever heard say "budniss" are from the south.

Interesting to hear that Americans talk fast. I always think that foreigners speak fast! Matt Dillon, the narrator, is an actor. He sounds like he comes from New York.

Reminiscing about our sons driving reminded me of the first weekend my son drove after getting his license. We got a call from the police. That was creepy. Dan, who was driving my Taurus, was hit from behind by his best friend who had been following him. Dan had slowed down to turn left and his friend wasn't paying attention - or who knows what???? I always wondered if they were fooling around. My Taurus wasn't damaged at all but the car wouldn't start. Turns out there was some button in the back that had to be pushed in order to re-start the car after being hit in the back.?? There wasn't a scratch on the car, though. Dan's friend's car was completely totalled but no one was hurt, thank goodness.

Prince and Princess of Whales, a Dan Rather specialty.

About Matt Dillon. Maybe they speak fast in New York because life is such a rat race there. I wondered what the accent was. I knew it was not Southern because Southerners speak slower and are easily identified. I actually thought he had a touch of the Bronx in his accent.

carolyn

I grew up in Seattle. My father had been educated in Jesuit schools all his life. People said my siblings and I spoke like those Midwest women who made the time (pop-corn) announcements: we ennunciated everything well and without any regional accent. Then I moved to California as a teenie-bopper. Lost it all in a few years. My siblings laugh at me now, call it rat-a-tat-tat-talk.

What drives me crazy are all those northeastern folk and eastern folk who add an r to words that don't have one in them.

Some transliterations of foreign names are just silly, though. In English, Polish city names sound nothing like the city because of the way the Polish language was transliterated. Warsaw? It's spelled Warszawa in Polish and pronounced like VarSHAva. It should have been transliterated Varshava, not Warsaw.

I say Lewzzeeanna. I am always surprised to hear people say Bat-in-rouge, and can't help but think of a bat dipping a wing into a vanity pot of scarlet red paste rouge. Then I start wondering if the population incidence of rabies is 5% or 0.5% in bats? Can you get it from a wing tip dipping into your rouge pot and then you applying it to your cheeks, or does it have to come from the bat's salivary glands? And wouldn't the incidence of rabies be higher in bats mad enough to want to dye their wing tips scarlet? Would this interfere with flight?

It's part of language, in the end, colloquial pronunciations.

Kleo

Dillon is a New Yorker.

Kleo

duble LL's are pronounced as Y's as in Estrella meaning star and the name of a major street so giving directions to someone new can be confusing. mostly it's prounounced AMERICAN with the LL's intact. I've had so much spanish i school and in singing that I prounounce it Spanish annd no one knows what I mean. . .it's part of the working language here where so many mexican immigrants don't speak english at all. markets and hotels and resturants are full of them.

another which is similar from queens and then the seudo english types which are realy more like bostonese. . .no RR"s Friend Jan who has lived in Helsinki for years still retains his Brooklyn sound. I like it.

My son has picked up a pronunciation growing up in Windsor, CT, and it drives me nuts. For example, he says "Lah-in" for Latin and "New Brih-in" for "New Britain" or "mih-in" for "mitten." Ick.

when he moved to BC now he sounds Canadian kinda broad and flat. that only took seven years.

It's a bit confusing. In Southern California, LL is often pronounced 'y.' But in Northern California it is more often, for the same word, pronounced 'l'.

Kleo

How yer goin mate? Like to come and have a cuppa? What a wally Tom is. Sugar? Sweet as.

Kiwi slang as above means. How are you. Would you like a cup of tea. Tom is an idiot. Sugar? and whether the person said yes or no for the sugar "sweet as" acknowledges both wanting sugar in the tea or declining it.

I don't speak like that but there is a section of the Community which do. It would be a foreign language to many new immigrants I would say. Australian slang is even harder to understand than ours.

KLEO, you will be interested in a bit I picked up reading one of Patrick Bryan's sea stories. It is the origin of the phrase, 'the Devil to pay'.

'pay', I learned, in Naval parlance refers to the caulking of seams with pitch or tar.

“devil”, in Naval terms, is the seam between the deck planking and the timbers , so called “because it’s the devil for the caulkers to come at". The original phrase was: ‘The devil to pay, and no pitch hot’; What it meant is, per Mr. Bryan's Captain Audrey, is that there is "something hell-fire difficult to be done--must be done… and nothing to do it with!"

Babi

My mother, from deep south Mobile, Alabama, had an English housekeeper in her home when she was little. Some of her pronunciations, passed on to my sisters and me as we were growing up, seem to be dying out. We pronounced it "offen" but everywhere now it is "ofTen".

Over here people my age and my kids age say "offen" but I do hear ofTen said now and again. Our newsreaders say offen.

How about "Idaly" for Italy?

Robby

The Poe novella of The Mystery of Marie Roget will begin Sunday, October 1st.

Pat explained that she will use the same heading that was used for The Murders in the Rue Morgue, which ended with post #154

Pat will be mentioning this novella in the Book Bytes. We both will be providing a link for you to follow.

Bill H

I grew up in south central Pennsylvania, so there is a little W Va twang and a little Applachian hillbilly slang and a little southern (Maryland) drawl AND a little Pennsylvania Dutch.

My Dad always said I TALian, not atalian as my teachers said. Creeks were cricks, we said offen and "outen the light" the butter was "all" - as in all gone, "red up the room." as in "clean up" etc etc

But the thing that my kids love when they visit their relatives who are still there is the sing-song quality of the inflections. I don't know if i can type it for you to understand, but "did you go to the show?" instead of being all on the same tone level would be "did YOU go to the show?" w/ 'you' being not only emphasized but two tones higher then "did" w/ "go" swinging back down one tone and the other words dropping as you move to the end of the sentence. That swing up and down goes on thru out the conversation. I have no idea where it comes from, the Penna Dutch in the area tend to do it, but i don't know if it's from their German dialect or from just having lived in the Cumberland Valley......

maybe this is a subject for "Curious MInds".......jean

It would be a good subject for Curious minds.

Robby - never heard Idaly out here.

Carolyn

I'll tell you one thing and difference 9/11 has made in me personally. I can only speak for myself. Jean speaks of EYE talian, well I always took care when I heard EYE raq and EYE ran, to say them "correctly," forget that. I think I will say them in any way I choose.

Pa. Dutch do pronouce words differently. Possible from the long use of German and Dutch dialects. I lived in Columbia, SC when I was a young married. I would guess that Columbia had a lot of french way back and they have a lot of French names for streets. However they are pronouced in the South Carolina dialect that mangles rrrrrrs.. I could never figure out just what people were saying. Besides in the 50's, you ran into Gullah dialect from many blacks, which is close to another language entirely. TV seems to have turned most of us into a closer version of the language.. But some things remain.., remember VEET Nam....

Another Southernism I've used: "might could".

This discussion of regional speech patterns has been amazing!
I thought almost everyone had changed their speech to sound like the evening news, but I guess not.
There is a wonderful book by one of my favorite authors, David Hackett Fischer, entitled
Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America (Oxford Univ Pr.,1989).

Among many other subjects, he traces the origin of four types of American colonial regional speech patterns.
I was surprised to find that the typical Boston dropping of the r:
paa ..(r)k the caaa ..(r) in Ha.. vaad yaaa .. (r)d
came directly from the region of East Anglia in eastern England.

Fischer is not only a suburb historian, but one of the few authors I have noticed who gives footnote credits to his undergraduate students' term papers, whenever their work ties into his own scholarship. What a great guy!

Mippy: I've put that one on reserve at my library. Thanks

Hmmm,.. The 'd' and 't' sounds are so close, I don't think I would recognize a d-for-t substituion if I heard it. Someone mentioned 'budness' as a Southern quirk. I've never heard the word 'budness', but I came across 'bidness' in a book, being spoken by a Northern 'tough character'. New York or Chicago, I think.

I remember "Y'all come" as an invitation, with "y'all come back soon" as a parting phrase. "Don't be strangers now.", was another. Thanks for the info. re. "Albion's Seed", MIPPY. It sounds like a word lovers dream.

Babi

Carolyn, I worked ages ago with a Kiwi who we used to tease about his slang until an Aussie signed on to the crew. Wow! He could speak English, but when he chose not to, we were out in the cold. I didn't believe that it was all real, until years later, on the Internet, I came across an Aussie slang dictionary.

Babi, thanks. Most sailor slang is rooted in something similar, comes from a real situation adapted to refer to life. Aussie slang, on the other hand, well, heck if I know.

Jean, my mother grew up in Pennsylvania Dutch country. When I was in junior high school, I used the expression, "Let's red up," and the teacher guessed that one of my parents had been born in Pennsylvania. My mother never said crick, though, instead of creek.

Ginny, the 9/11 terrorists were mostly Saudi Arabs, probably all Salafi Sunnis, some Arabs from the UAE, probably Sunnis, an Egyptian, probably a Sunni, and a Lebanese who may have been a Shiite, as Lebanon does have a large Shiite Muslim population. Iran is over 90% Shiite, and Iraq over half Shiite Muslims--neither country is Saudi Arabia, Egypt or the UAE, or mostly Sunni like the terrorists. Iran is Persian, not Arab. Exactly why would Persians and Iraqis earn the right to be disrespected based on the action of Arab Sunni Muslims, the Iraqis being too busy being raped, murdered and tortured by Saddam's thugs to do much, and even now requiring outsiders to terrorize foreign troops inside their borders. No matter what outrage is committed against Americans and the world by Saudi Arab terrorists, we still keep buying their gas and spitting at Iranian Persians, it seems.

Kleo

VERY well said!, KLEO.

Babi

"Let's red up"/ "I need to red up this place" is found in Ohio as well.

We also had a lot of "cricks" where I grew up in EC Ohio.

means nothing to this California raised person. translate please?

I've been chasing recent legislation through google all morning and still haven't found what my friend Jan refers to as the following. .

which is out of place here so you'll have to ask, but it completely destroys our bill of rights.. he gets a little dark at times but then He reads Counter Punch which is often off the wall, currently accusing Bob Kerrey of slashing throats in viet nam. . sheesh. now what

Jane, yes, everywhere the Pennsylvania Dutch settled, which is also upstate NY, I believe, from a Seinfeld episode--probably lots of places in New York, wasn't Manhattan once New Amsterdam? I'll have to look up the history some time, because I know almost nothing about the Pennsylvania Dutch.

Thanks, Babi.

Kleo

We have a Dutch retirement village 5 mins from me where they still foster their native tongue although they all speak great English. They have lessons for NZ born kids so they can speak to their grandparents when they go for holidays to Holland. They are lovely people and very community minded. My daughters MIL is in their private hospital although she is not Dutch. Its wonderful and run by a trust so nothing but the best for the patients. When they have a vacancy in the hospital its open to the community here if there is no Dutch person to occupy the spare bed. The carers do nothing but work with the patients so they get lots of individual care and they have a large housekeeping staff to do everything else.

Carolyn

Spitting? really Kleo that's the limit.

Claire...only explanation I've ever heard is that it was short for "let's ready up the area."

Who knows where the regionalisms/pronunciations come from. I love them.

When I grew up in Pennsylvania, I heard all the time redd it up in the zinc. Did you ever hear that one, Hats? Hats and Jean and I are variously from the same area. I didn't hear it till we moved from Philly into the countryside in Eddington PA not far from Bristol.

That's where I learned how to pronounce Heinz because all the fields around us were leased by or sold produce to them.

And the pike. I never will forget using the word PIKE with my husband for the first time, he had no idea what I was saying, being from another area of the country.

Up the pike. Down the shore. Ah childhood.

Lots of people of German background in an area near me speak of their kitchen zinks all the time. The first time I heard it, I thought I'd misheard. Kitchen zinks, bathroom zinks...zinks all around.

Is THAT what it is? Lots of Germans in the Phila area, and all sorts of other nationalities, too, zincs on the house then!

Scrapple, too, miss that.

"Roof" is actually the determiner, isn't it? Of regional dialects, or one of them, anyway. And "out." The way you say "out of the house" sort of pinpoints you regionally too.

I've heard OAT of the HOEss.

I have made scrapple when we butchered here in the center of good ole USofA. I grew up with mom using all sorts of saying.

That list could go on forever. My first contact w/ philadelphians was at Shippensburg College, it's in my hometown, dead center in the Cumberland VAlley, so those city people coming in spoke reeeealy strangely. Vowels were said in the middle of the mouth....cawlfee (coffee), wawter as opposed to waater that we said in S-burg, in the front of our mouths. Then when i moved to New Jersey, i heard the South PHilly "youse guys" or "yese" for a more plural "you,"as in "how yese doin'?" Another Cumb Valley practice was to use a past tense for future tense - "my hair needs washed," instead of "my hair needs washing" or "to be washed."

And isn't it fun to look back and remember when we recognized that what we were saying was colloquial and not correct?.......jean

Ginny the smell of scrapple brought me over here. When is breakfast? I love, love scrapple. What a dish!

Mabel, I have heard just "youse." Youse, lunch is ready.

hahaha, Hats, and look Scrapple is in other parts of the country, too! Not here, we have grits here.

Jean, it's "how yerse doing," hahaa Oh yes and WARSH!

WARSH the dishes in the zinc. Love it.

Claire, I can't make that one out.

Now what this has to do with books is not clear, haahaha HOWEVER, it does show you how difficult it IS to write dialect successfully. Isn't that supposedly the most difficult thing to do? Clyde Edgerton is good with it, he's got a good ear.

That's where you win reading Faulkner out loud, (or so I was taught in the last class and it will be the only one I took in him) hahaha, Deems will know but you can catch the cadences that way and the grunts make sense. hahah oops.

Jerry Bledsoe in his hilarious book about trying to go back to the land, You Can't Live on Radishes, talks about buying a small "spread" in North Carolina and jumping full tilt in the new Back to the Land movement, he caught it quickly, the book is old but it's absolutely hilarious, especially his attempts to deal with the "har."

Now my husband is from "South Georgia" and those two words together mean something to those who know, and even he does not say HAR.

Guess what a har is? hahahaa Read that book before you sell out and retire to the country.

Red up in Delaware Amish referred to cleaning up.. I LOVE SCRAPPLE. Oh me, I grew up in Delaware in the country and all around us were Amish. So I dearly love scraple and dried Apples and slippery noodles. Delaware country people used to say" amongst youuns", but no more.. Tv changed that. I love the soft cadence of Virginia. That is a lovely lovely accent indeed..

Now ye`re talken I love scrapple an` grits fer ma` breakfast. Not kidding!

P.S. I am in Oklahoma. We speak about same as most of the TV people.

A California native asks ... WHAT is scrapple?

An Aussie asks - what is scrapple?

Marilyne & gumtree...The Ohio form of scrapple, called "krepples" where I grew up, was in a pan like brownies would be and my mother would cut out slices...like you might meat loaf...and pan fry it. It was made at butchering time on the farm when butchering at the farm still took place. They don't much anymore in my Iowa rural area, and so these old favorites have to be purchased from commercial sources.

Here's one explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapple

It's kind of like "hot dogs"...you don't really want to know what all is in it.

jane

I really miss scrapple, you'd not think so from reading what it is, and also a chopped chicken liver done right, not pureed into pate!

But we have news today which I hope you'll all be excited about!

As you may have read, SeniorNet is establishing Achievement Centers in partnership with the Native American Chamber of Commerce. IBM is sponsoring ‘Hope and Harmony for Humanity,’ a grant-based initiative designed to bring computer technology access and education to low-income and remote Native American reservations across the nation.

The initiative kicked off with the opening of the first Achievement Center at the Blackfeet Nation in Browning, Montana on Thursday September 28th, 2006.

Some of us in SeniorNet Books have ascertained the need for books for the children at a residential dormitory for children at risk in grades 1-12 (most are in grades 1-4). We think, being in the Books business as it were, and having so many grandparents around who are knowledgeable about the right books for the right age, that we'd sponsor an online drive to put good reading materials in this dormitory for the children. We've had incredible results from our Prison Library Project and thought everyone would like to help these children.

We are thinking it would be a great idea for those who might like to participate, to add one book to their Christmas or Holiday Lists. Or maybe getting grandchildren involved too in sending the gift of reading for others. We think it's a good idea to involve the SeniorNet Learning Centers to contribute books also, and we'll keep track of all of the donations here online!

It's a very exciting thing to be setting up and we need YOUR help!

We're starting with the first Achievement Center at the Blackfeet reservation and are currently trying to identify an educator there who might provide us with a list of age-appropriate books that would be of interest to the children. We'll keep you posted. Meanwhile, we need your advice and your ideas, you can post your thoughts about the projects, and your suggestions for children's books, right here in the Book Nook till we get the discussion up and rolling. Sue, we could use your expertise here, I know you know a lot about children's books and grade levels.

Stay tuned for more!

The first book that comes to my mind is Arrow to the Sun, a Caldecott Award winner some years back. It's beautifully drawn and is a Pueblo/Hopi/or Navajo creation story.

If I had my 'druthers, I'd buy Caldecott and Newberry Award winners, plus children's favorites like the Arthur series, Clifford the Big Red Dog series, anything by Judy Blume, especially the ones she has written for 3rd and 4th grades, anything by Beverly Cleary--big favorites with children of elementary age, and the Laura Ingalls Wilder series. A newer favorite is Captain Underpants but I don't know if that would work with Native American children. There are probably other Native American non-fiction and fiction, but one would have to be careful here unless you'd know what is correct. I also like books written and illustrated by the Dillons, usually on an African American theme. Eloise Greenfield is an African-American author who writes wonderful children's books. Her poetry is especially loved by children I've taught in Alabama. Oh, and don't forget Harry Potter!

One of my f2f book clubs here has an annual Children's book drive at Christmas. They are usually given to Toys for Tots but last year were given to my Louisiana grandsons' school as they lost all of theirs in Katrina waters. Some of the selections were inappropriate for school libraries, IMO, such as pop up books. They just don't stand up to handling, although children love them.

Wasn't Pedln a school librarian? She'd have good ideas. Sue

My children just loved the William Pene DuBois books. And I loved reading them, too.

Stephanie, did you see "The Pianist"?? Ever since I saw it, I have been a big Adrian Brody fan, but I have not seen his newest movie, tho I am anxious to do so. isak

WINSUM, I was actually able to read that! What does that tell you.

GINNY, every time I read about another outreach program from SeniorNet I am so proud I have to go brag about it. I'm so pleased with this one. Like the prison library project, it is helping where help is most needed.

THREE CHEERS FOR SENIORNET!!!

Babi

Tomorrow, Sunday, Oct. 1st , begins the discussion of Poe's

The Mystery of Marie Roget

Bill H

babi I learned it from someone who grew up in Illinois. so I guess that makes you a midwesterner of some or other sort. . . .it's fun to say too. just avoids a real cussing and rolls off the tongue.

claire

Ginny I am so happy about the SN project in the First nation reservation. It is something dear to my heart that all children get the opportunities they deserve to learn. Its something that SN can be very proud of that they are able to do this important work in the community. I hope we can be updated as to how the project is working. Three Cheers for SN!

My grands like Captain Underpants and the Spongebob computer games are very good learning tools as well as fun. Maybe the companies would donate books and the games. I have a wonderful game program which is also an English program and its a NZ one. It covers spelling, punctuation, reading etc. The kids have to read Spongebob too to play the games and answer questions in part of the games. I tutor my grands on Sunday mornings and computer games are one of the tools.

Carolyn

Count me in on the reading for the children idea. I know my granddaughter loves Ramona ( Beverly Cleary) and my grandson loves anything that has a car or truck in it.. Lists would be helpful, etc. Scrapple is something made from leftovers of pork and cornmeal.. Oh,, sliced thin and fried crisp,,it is the food of gods. Oh me, I do miss it and the commercial stuff is horrid.

Coming late to the party -- what a great discussion

Jean, they tend to up and down their words also, where I grew up in Wisconsin -- kind of like "oh ya-aa, a ques-tion-- with the last syllables a tone higher.

And Carolyn, at last I know. My grandson was named William Alden but always called Wally because two of his cousins claimed Will and Bill. My son's family lived in the Phillippines for a year, and all of sudden little second grader Wally, became William, as he is to this day. When I later asked my son about it, he said, "His Australian friends at school told him he did not want to be a WAlly, a Wally was not a good thing to be.

We have strange pronounciations around here for local place names, and they joke about a special class incoming professors at the local U have to take, so they won't make any boo-boos. The classic is New MADrid, VIenna, and my daughter, now an Easterner says, "Mom, I can never remember whether to say "KAYro" Illinois or "CEYEro" Egypt.

Sue, yes, the Caldecotts and Newberys, usually always good choices, and other good source would be state and regional awards. Our school librarians assoc. offers both a Showme award and a Mark Twain award, voted on by the kids. I worked at the high school level, so am not really up-to-date on books for younger readers. I've always like Ezra Jack Keats. I remember the Dillons -- "Why Mosquitoes Buzz in People's Ears." And David Maucauly is good -- his Cathedral, Castel, Underground. And the books by Holling Holling -- "Paddle to the Sea," a favorite of my kids and their kids and his "Minn of the Mississippi."

Pedln Your Grandson's friends were right - no one wants to be a Wally - let alone a right Wally . In English 'a Wally' means something like 'a dill'.

gumtree: so what is a dill?

We also had an expression for a bad very short hair cut. "Oh look, so and so has had a Wally" We don't use Wally much these days. I am afraid anyone who has the name Dick must feel the same as a Wally. The kids all call idiots Dicks.

Carolyn

Ah but there's ONE Wally who may change that, singlehandedly and that's Wally Lamb. Man is a saint and he's one who courageously at whatever cost to him puts right before anything else, what an inspiration to anybody, and I think his son is following right in his father's footsteps, what a use of a life and an example HE is.

Thesaurus defination of wally is: a silly and inept person; someone who is reguarded as stupid.

And what do you think my friend Gay thought, when that name was given over to an entirely new usage?

Not a midwesterner, WINSUM; I'm Texan. Just a long and loving relationship with words.

Babi

That's the first time I've ever heard of a "wally." Interesting. I wonder if that's why they named the fun park "WallyWorld" in the Chevy Chase movie - what was it? - Vacation? Something like that.

No I think THAT one was a parody on Walt Disney, there's a new biography out on him, has anybody read it? I think he's fascinating, just fascinating.

IS Wally short for Walter?

Ginny, good question. I remember Wally from "Leave It to Beaver." Wally was such a good brother. I remember Eddie too. Yuck! Eddie was just too sweetie pie. Now I'm off topic. Is Wally short for Walte?? I knew a Walter. We always called him Walter, nothing else.

THANK you all for your wonderful enthusiastic and super responses to the Native American Children's Book Project (we need a catchy name). As soon as the discussion opens we do hope you'll all join us there and help us set it up , there is so much that can be done with that and we need loads of input. The possibilities are endless and we might all come away enriched. More photos are coming this next week or so.

Great ideas, Sue, I knew you'd have some, and the appropriateness part might be where we want to be cautious, so that's good advice. Children's lit is nothing I know a lot about. There used to be a book called the Arbuthnot Anthology, has anybody heard of it? Which talked about the best books for children by age level, but it's.....no longer in print? I wonder if we can get a volunteer story hour or maybe even send 10 books of one kind or something, the possibilities are endless! I mean maybe the kids could write us too on the reservation computer, lots of possibilities here!

Mrs. Sherlock, I had never heard of his books either till you two mentioned them, and as I'm to have a grandchild too, in November, the first and probably the last, I'm taking notes.

(And I get to keep the baby!!!!)

BABI, your wonderful post should be on top of every heading in Seniornet!! Thank you!

Carolyn, you too, what a heart warming thing to say and I hope you'll all come over there and help keep the ball rolling, what a good idea too about the companies donating stuff!!!!

Is Sponge Bob (who?) Square Pants appropriate for...what level?

Stephanie, great and I agree, Lists are the thing, that's what we're aiming for, I think there are 140 children in this boarding dormitory and if it's anything like being at camp books ought to be in high regard, I am so excited about this whole thing!

If we can get the children's teachers to say what they recommend we can begin making our own lists and rely on our experiences here to add to them lots to do.

Pedln oh wow, yes David Maucauly, yes yes he just won the Genius award and he sure is, nobody is mentioning those books with all the pictures, are they called Where's Waldo or something? Or the Curious Georges? We must have lists. I always hated Curious George.

Yes and regional winners.

Now what are YOUR opinions on those books which have piano keyboards in them or play songs or make animal sounds or what not??

??

Rhyme, don't we want rhyme and how about Frog and Toad? Or should we aim for the bright color pictures? Choices choices.

Our local B&N and I guess all of them took up donations for a shool in Mississippi, wiped out by Katrina, and they had a selection of books at the check out, and you could buy one and they would send it along to the school with your name on it or something and one day I was passing it by and saying no when my friend got all upset with me and so I said OK! (I had just bought 5 books the prisoners wanted but HEY! Hahaha) and so then I kept doing that and one day they were not there and they had met their quota for that school, now THAT'S a good idea, too.

If we had the list (a carefully chosen one to start with) then people might choose one to add to their Christmas or Holiday Gift Giving. I still like the idea of a child giving one, sharing the gift of reading. And the idea is it will be sent directly to the boarding school and they will let us know when they get it (imagine the joy these kids will feel when the packages come in!) and we'll add whoever sent it to our Honor Roll of Donors, I hope there are a billion of them, just some possibilities for organization here! It's just win/ win /win!

I am also very excited about the Native American Children's Book Project. Excuse me for not commenting. I thought of Wally Lamb and there went my thoughts.

Ginny, congratulations!

Ginny I think it would be nice to consult the First Nation people about a name for the project. There may be a word that is common to many tribes that would suit. That is what we would do here in a similar situation. It would make the participants feel more inclusive too.

Carolyn

Carolyn, that's a good idea, I think.

Ginny, I kept my Arbuthnot anthology for many years, got it in a children's lit class, but it finally wore out. I do NOT like the books with gimmicks like you mention, playing songs, piano keyboards, etc. They just seem too frou frou--and children soon lose interest--very little reading takes place with that kind of book.

The Frog and Toad stories are great, also Minarik's Little Bear. I really like Curious George as do most early readers.

Pedln, I love Holling Holling's Paddle to the Sea. I haven't seen or heard about it for a long time. Sue

It won't be that hard to pick up a book every now and then. Do they have to be new? Lots of nice books are used and I'd rather get two or three. I guess that new is better, though. Yes, let's get a name and maybe a list from the American Indian Children's Book Project. I would hate to send something that would be unacceptable.

I would like to take part but early before Christmas takes over my life and home. Hope you find a teacher or librarian at the school who can accept the books. Then we could just send them to the school. I have two almost new copies of David McCauley books and I would send them. This is a great idea! I could probably get my grans' school interested in the project. At least, they should know about it and maybe their librarian will give me some other titles. There are loads of good books for kids out there today. What are the ages again and how many children are we talking about?

Children who are not that keen on reading often like humourous books. They also like fantasy. My grandson is reading a new kind of fantasy series. Even his dad can't wait for the nightly chapter they share. My grandson is 8. I will find out the name of the series and the author.

Carolyn

is free and being read by a very pleasant woman out loud here.

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/winsum

that's my bookmark. look for the home page for other offerings.

claire

I also had a long time ago, a small son who was literal.. He hated fiction and always said.."True Mommy...must be true", so for all those literal ( engineer) sons or daughters, we should include some biographies. They have some written for even the smallest children. There are also some lovely lovely books done with color id's and beginning math..

growing up is wonderful if you have books. My parents bought an old set of Encycopedia by Collier. They were the most wonderful books they ever got us and they bought all the classics, Black Beauty, Hans Brinker, Robinson Caruso, Gulliver`s Travel`s, a complete set of Hans Christian Andersons tales. The Brothers Grimm`s Fairey tales, I really had a wonderful childhood and gave the same to my children so now they all are readers. As children they loved dinosar books, fish books, dolphin books, Animal books. oh and the whale books. Hope you have a good idea from my list...Roseda

Over the weekend, I added 2 pictures to the slide show above. Can you see them?

Stephanie I have one grandson like your son. However miracle of miracles his dad found a series of fantasy books that are so exciting and maybe technical? that my grand and his dad are hooked! Dad and grandson read together and my son says he can't wait to get home and find out what happens next in the story. My son also rarely reads fiction and is a technical man too.

it's great to have the new pictures.....all of the pictures.....jean

Kiwi Lady--What are those fantasy books? They sound great.

I will find out for you Pat when next I am talking to my son. I don't know the titles or author just that he was telling me how much he was enjoying reading them with Josh.

Carolyn

Thanks--I am a fantasy fan, and would probably enjoy them, and beside, I have great-nephews who might also like them.

I hadn't seen the picture of AnnaFair surrounded by her family, before, PAT. What a wonderful scene!

Babi

They're new since the last time I looked. Splendid portraits, ladies. But I'll always see you with your heads together.

Babi, isnt that the way it is. Take your eyes off the screen for half a minute or less, and you've missed the best of all. Shucks AnnaFair and family have graced the album for months and months.

Oh, those new photos are lovely! Beautiful ladies! I must say, though, the photo of the twins together was my favorite photo there. I smiled whenever I looked at it because it was so sweet!

We thought there ought to be more recent pictures up before the meeting, so anyone who wanted to find us could recognize us. We still have our heads together on the page with all the pictures.

Amazing that you mentioned the fantasy.. When our son was a young teen, we had a friend who was a physics professor( still do have him actually). Anyway he was over one night and we were talking about reading. I mentioned that our Timmy only read nonfiction, etc. Jack brought over the works of Arthur Clarke ( fantasy and sci-fi writer) told Timmy to give it a try and bang.. From then on, he went through Tolkien and many other writers like Clarke, etc. So yes as a teen he read fantasy. I do wish I had thought of it when he was little since I read it, but it just never occurred to me.

Stephanie - I think the link for the kids with fantasy is as my husband always said, "Everything that man imagines he brings to pass" I bet those kids are thinking all the time they are reading fantasy is how they can bring to pass some of the unexplainable they are encountering" I think that is what gets them.

Carolyn

I've heard people in the space program say how much Star Trek influenced them in their career choices.

Ah,well, Jonathan, it's just been too long since I watched until all the pictures cycled through! Since Annafair had been sick recently, I especially perked up on seeing her picture. So, ..I haven't the least idea which are the two new ones, but I have now seen them all!

Mrs. Sherlock, I don't think it is possible to overestimate the influence of television on young people's dreams of the future. Now, thanks to all the CSI show, criminal investigative science and pathology are immensely popular. (Personally, some of the things I've seen on those shows would drive me far, far away from such a career.)

Babi

Actually I must confess that even though I am squeamish and shut my eyes at a lot of CSI, I do find the scientific approach to crime solving as interesting. I would have loved to be someone who was an expert on various types of materials, etc. Even though with a son involved in law enforcement of the federal type, I know they dont like CSI half as much as civilians do.

CSI drives me insane, those huge and empty, sparse and dark rooms that the characters supposedly do laboratory work in? All I can think whenever I watch one of those silly shows is, none of the evidence has a secure chain of command because the rooms are so dark they could never see if they dropped something on the floor, or if the microscope slide or the sample or the test tube was dirty or broken or the seal broken.

If you can't see, you can't keep the lab clean, and if you can't keep the lab clean, you can't prevent contamination, and if you can't prevent contamination you shouldn't be any part of sending criminals to jail.

And when I read newspaper articles about that criminal investigator who cheated on all those cases all I can think is that she followed the television CSI mode of dark and dirty lab.

Kleo

Dark rooms, KLEO? Except for people working the night shift, with perhaps only their work area lit, I have an impression of large, well-lighted rooms. (You might want to check the brightness setting on your TV, just in case.) I do remember instances when the point was made that this or that evidence was useless because of contamination, or a break in the chain of (?)..is command the right word? However, with only a couple of exceptions, these took place outside the lab.

The science is fascinating, Stephanie, tho' I understand there are very few labs in the country as well furnished as the ones in the TV series. I could enjoy doing the technical end of CSI work, too, so long as it didn't include the kind of evidence you need a gas mask to handle.

Babi

Babi, I am with you.. The problem in many areas of the US is the labs are small and the personell are very poorly paid. Hard to find scientific help at the wages. In Florida, we have a coroner problem. So many of them simply announce they are coroners, no training, no real experience. WE have had several scandals over the past 10 years about this.

Babi, nope, they're dark rooms. And, discussing this with a friend yesterday, they actually use special filming techniques or settings to make the lab rooms look as dark as they appear on the screen--they are dark, and it's on purpose to give the show a noir feel. So, maybe it's your TV that makes 'em appear light, in which case, I'll trade you TVs--actually, I don't usually watch them at home, so it's not my TV. Most people I know who work in labs do notice this about the CSI shows, the noir labs, and joke about it.

Stephanie, to me it's inexcusable to have the death penalty and aggressively pursue it while the state or counties can't afford to train personnel. Maybe innocent people are being put to death and violent criminals are not being caught.

Kleo

Don't watch enough TV to comment on labs noir/lite -

I have an unrelated question - Have any of you read first-time author, long time professor of French lit - Diane Setterfield's The Thirteenth Tale? If so, please don't reveal the ending - as I'm only 100 pages in. I'm thinking it might great discussion possiblities along with Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights...but not sure yet. Since she's new on the scene and the book is just out, I'm more interested in what readers think of it - than the publishers.

If you aren't familiar with the book, here's a link The Thirteenth Tale

I was really disappointed in CSI. I don't usually watch commercial TV, but so many friends told me I'd love CSI, since I like mysteries with a lot of technique, that I had to try it. I couldn't get past the gratuitous (sp?) blood and guts. Of course there has to be some, but this was laid on with a trowel for no reason I could see in the plot. I never watched another show.

PBS is starting new mystery series tonight which I hope is their version of CSI, and I hope is better. I'll let you know.

In edit: spellchecker says I spelled gratuitous right. If I did, it's a miracle!

Speaking of mysteries, nothing like combining addictions. I'm addicted to both mysteries and crossword puzzles, and I just found a series of mystery stories with crossword puzzle clues as the clues-- the "Puzzle lady" series by Parnell Hall. The first is "A Clue for the Puzzle Lady"> The detectives are crossword puzzle constructors. Will Shortz said it kept him guessing. It's the "cozy" type -- funny with no pretense at realism, but a good light read. Manny, what do you think?

JoanP, I have seen a lot of book reviews about "The Thirteenth Tale." You make a discussion sound very enticing. I read your link. Wow! I bet "The Thirteenth Tale" is a good one. I have read "Jane Eyre." I haven't read "Woman in White."

I'm #26 on the reserve list for 3 copies of The Thirteenth Tale in my library system.

Sierra Leone author Aminatta Forna's first novel got a so-so review in the SF Chronicle, but her first book, The Devil That Dainced on the Water, a memoir, comes off much better. Her writing "...combines penetrating journalism with a novelist's eye for detail." This is an investigation of her father's death when she was 10. He was Sierra Leone's finance minister in the 70's. Think I'll nominate it for RATW's next book.

Kleo.. I understand your feelings about the death penalty and I will allow that there might be innocent people involved.. However having had a dear dear friend murdered and seen what it took to get the person who did it just to trial.. Whew.. Justice may be sure, but it sure isnt swift.

I haven't been on this site for four months. First we were on Vacation then my Husband had an operation that was supposed to be "simple" but had unexpected negative consequences. Things are looking up now and I am slowly, ever so slowly ,returning to normal functioning as my husband is recuperating.

I can,t relate to all the input of the past months but only to the last 10 or so messages.

Joan Pearson. There are three CSI programs. One is superior and the other two are not even mediocre. The good one is CSI Las Vegas.Since the show has been on for five years we who watch have a long history with the characters each of whom has a unique life. CSI Las Vegas is so popular that Elder Hostel runs a CSI Las Vegas Course. The Las Vegas Crime Lab is the best equipped in the U.S. and other Labs don't have the state of the art equipment that Las Vegas does.

The new PBS Mystery show is The Inspector Lynley series. They have taken the characters from a series of popular books and bolderized them for TV. I watch it anyhow since the acting is so good.

I will continue to be in touch. Normalcy feels good.

Judy

Stephanie, the problem is, it isn't even justice. What could ever make up for the loss of a loved one? Still, because you have seen closely someone's loss, now imagine that magnified by it being the wrongful loss by the state after trashing that person's reputation beyond repair by being falsely called a murderer. It's like a bonus to wrongful death, being completely dishonored and ostracized by the world before being wrongfully killed.

Judy, the regular CSI serious is actually a good show because of the complexity of its characters--complex in an interesting and original way, even if the labs drive me batty. The original characterizations set it aside from the other shows in its genre. However, while the producers realized this about the characters and the show's popularity, they took it to silly extremes for the other NY and Miami series. The other ones are just plain funny. Horatio on CSI Miami had me bursting a side laughing in the last few minutes of a show in the past few weeks. I wished I had watched the whole thing. Every time I tune in to it, he's devoted to saving the life of some doe-eyed little boy who worships him, when no one else will even love him. This kinda gives me an uncomfortable feeling, though, so I can't watch an whole episode.

Yes, I can see people getting hooked on the Las Vegas one.

Kleo

Judy, I agree the Las Vegas CSI is the best of those three. However, I consider NCIS, the Naval one, to be a 'CSI' show and it is quite good, too, IMO. If you haven't seen it, you might take a look. Of course, the main characters are well established by now, and the regular viewers know a lot of background lost to the newcomer. It is still well worth seeing. It has an old favorite of mine, David McCallum, and a new favorite, Pauley Paulette.

Babi

Judy - I am sorry to hear about the problems with your husbands surgery. I hope that things are on the mend now and you can get back to the activities that you enjoy.

Carolyn

Welcome back, Judy, I wondered where you were, and I hope your husband continues on a path of solid recovery, aren't we glad to have this place to talk over things Books together!

Since tomorrow's our "official birthday" in the Books, and we'll be 10 years old, I hope we can put up our latest discussion which has really gotten a lot of interest, the Native American Children's Book Project!

And there's more news too! Marcie has reported yet another facility desperately in need of books:

SeniorNet's regional consultant Jan Adkins is working with the Native American Achievement Centers on behalf of SeniorNet. She put us in contact with one of the teachers in the elementary school who is working on the Blackfeet Achievement Center project too, and Marcie has asked him to help us get a list of books.

Marcie also heard from Jan that the Early Childhood Center at the Blackfeet reservation is desperate for books. They serve children ages 0-5. She will put me in touch with someone at the ECC who will give us a list of books and number of children at the Center.

So that's two facilities for children now desperately in need of books! I think this is a fitting thing to debut on our birthday! We've come a long way in the Books and Lit of SeniorNet, thanks to you all.

I am excited also in that we may be getting some local churches involved, and this is something that everybody can do and may want to do, churches, Learning Centers, community organizations, who would not want to help?

Here from one of our SN volunteers, Sandy B, is a listing for El Paso Texas recommendations of books for the First Grade , she's looking for the South Carolina recommended books list. I bet every state has these lists, it might be fun to compare them and see what appears constantly, and once the discussion actually goes up we can then solicit recommendations from the grandparents in our midst and former or current teachers of these levels like Sue, and hear from the Educators there in Montana as to any specific needs and really get up some Most Desired Books on our own lists, good on SeniorNet: very exciting opportunity to make a difference through books and reading in the world!

On the recreational reading front, I don't care how busy and involved a READER is, he'll find time, even if it's 10 minutes before he falls asleep (am I the only one here who wakes up with books in the bed? hahaha) to read. It may take him 1000 years to finish a book that way but he's happy. And here of course, on SeniorNet, for 10 years we've been able to discuss with people all over the world, what a joy!

I've finished Book Number 3 of the Ripley series and am happily sequeing into Number 4, it keeps getting darker and darker, but boy can she write. I'm going to go into withdrawal when this is over, good thing I've got her Nothing That Meets the Eye, a collection of the uncollected stories of Patricia Highsmith to look forward to. She reminds me a lot of another writer of mysteries with that dark edge, not Maron, not Waters, I can't think of her name but she's got quite an edge, psychologically. AH!! Margaret Yorke! Yes indeed.

But now am ready for Brideshead Revisited, for some reason. It's getting cold, what's that quote about bring on the wood, the nights are chill, we'll keep our Christmas merry, still?

Bring on the books!

Babi, I do like NCIS, just not the Tony character. on the other hand, love Ziva.. What a beauty and dangerous to boot. I like the CSI Vegas, but agree the other two are mostly a joke. I dislike actively the actor who plays Horatio.. All posturing and no acting.. Brideshead?? Have we decided on this for the House series??

Nooo we haven't I just want to read it, but thank you for reminding me, we need a ballot there soon, the Houseboat is sort of alternating with the RATW which is in fine swing with a Fine Balance!

Hi, Ginny ~ I recently read Brideshead Revisited by Waugh after it was nominated on the HouseBoat. (ahoy)
But I have reservations about it; I'm not sure why it's considered such a classic. I do look forward to talking it over with you after you finish it.
I put the 3rd novel by Patricia Highsmith down in the middle, busy reading a few other books; also not being fond at all of that Mr. Ripley, at least not as much as you, apparently

We really DO need to discuss Brideshead somewhere. Oh yeah, I wondered what happened to you I was all ready to discuss Ripley. Yes I like Ripley, he's so noir.

Hi Ginny,

Nice to hear your voice ? again. What's all this about Brideshead? A novel such as that deserves to be called a novel. Will you do a discussion?

Congrats on all the book projects going on over there. What worthwhile causes and dear to every booklovers heart I'd say..

Congrats also to SN on the 10 year thing - a super achievement - looking forward to the next 10...

Hey, Gum!! What nice sentiments, thank you. I think the Children's Book Project is going to be fabulous.

Brideshead almost won the last time, when the Professor's House did, boy that was a good discussion, so maybe we need to nominate it again for the next go round. hahaha I agree we need to discuss it!

We need to do something REALLY unique and different for our 10th, in the way of a unique and strange book discussion, anybody got any ideas? We're doing The Lady of Shallott in December (and I sure am glad because it's driving me insane):

Out flew the web and floated wide
The mirror crack'd from side to side
The curse has come upon me, cried
The Lady of Shalott.

Thing IS what caused her to be imprisoned in the tower in the first place? Could it have been her own self? OH boy this is going to be a good one and short, just the thing for December ,just the thing for women everywhere, and it's online too.

We WERE going to do the Margaret Drabble Seven Sisters with it in conjunction again; however I am thinking that might not be the best idea for a three week poem discussion, but if ever a book exemplified the theme of another that one does. OH BOY.

But for now I'd like something really creative and bizarre for our 10th. Something in the way of a short discussion, something connected with 10. What could we do?

Something completely different!

Ginny, you said anything with ten. Jodi Picoult's new book is titled "The Tenth Circle."

The Tenth Circle

I haven't read "The Tenth Circle." I have read other Jodi Picoult books. This book is possibly too heavy, too strong, too something or other. Jodi Picoult deals with tough issues, not necessarily a book to choose for an anniversary celebration. Sorry.

Oooo I don't know!! We're famous for being able to discuss a telephone book, and something too heavy too strong too whatever sounds good to me! Use it or lose it, I always say, climb EVERY mountain, together! (Gee whiz what can be more strong and too much than Brideshead! hahahaha) Thank you for that wonderful recommendation, Hats, as always, and Happy Birthday Books and Lit! I'll look that one up.

I think I'll ...hmmmm I think I'll (need to do something with 10 in it) list 10 things I like about the Books and Lit on SeniorNet. Yes!!

I like:

1. The readers you meet here

2. The wealth of information each person brings to every discussion and the respectful, cordial, and collegial nature of our discussions.

3. The diversity of our readers and their experiences, from all over the world

4. The choices in books we make

5. All the different genres we have discussed: you name it, in the last 10 years we've discussed it.

6. Our authors and how they have enriched our discussions

7. The opportunities we as a Books and Lit organization have for people to volunteer to make a difference, like the Prison Library Project and the Native American Children's Book Project, in the wings.

8. Our in person get togethers, in NYC, at the Beach, in Chicago: they are so fun!

9. Our affiliation with the Library of Congress, the National Book Festival and the PEN/ Faulkner organization.

10. And last but never least, the wonderful cooperation and collaboration of our 29 volunteers here in the Books, who put on and help technically with the million and one things it takes to make the Books & Lit go!

Happy 10th Birthday to us all!
Thank YOU for everything you have done!

Balloons are great. But I am glad that someone else has a finger slip on words.

STEPHANIE, I have also wanted more than once to smack Tony for being such a, a, a schlemiel (sp?). Nevertheless, in the last couple of shows he is displaying a surprising maturity and sensitivity. (The sensitivity is confined to his handling of Gibbs' return, mind you. He is still obnoxious to McGee and Ziva.)

AHA!! Thank you, GINNY. That's where the line came from. Remember Agatha Christie's "The Mirror Cracked"? I knew that title came from a poem, but couldn't remember where.

Babi

Ginny and the other 28 volunteers: I don't know how I could have survived Seniorness without SeniorNet Bookies. This is a community that wouldn't exist in any neighborhood; only the internet makes it possible to share ideas and experiences this way. All my life I have been castigated for alway having my nose in a book. Here it is required and I feel totally justified to read as many good books as I can find. Thank you and the bold pioneers whose vision has made this possible.

Mrs. Sherlock, your words are beautiful. Your words have made the birthday party really special.

Mrs. Sherlock --- you are so right. SeniorNet has been a great place to spend time. My family also appreciates it; keeps me off the streets, they say.

Oh , I am happy to be back with you folks. I came back just in time for a Birthday Party ! What luck...what a pick me up after a lot of worry and down time. And Balloons too.

I have two sugestions for a quick, fun discussion:

!) The balloons reminded me of Iyer the Donkeys birthday in Winnie the Pooh. Ostensibly a childrens book it is full of wisdom , philosophy and HUMOR. There is also a book called The Tao of Poo which delves into these ideas. Anyone up for a discussion of Winnie the POOH or others by A.A. Milne?

2) Another Ten is Agatha Christies "Ten Little Indians". I will never forget this book as it was the first Adult book I ever read. That too sounds like a fun discussion. What was the first adult book or books you read or when and how you transitioned out of Childrens Lit to Adult Lit.

Judy

I, too, thought of Ten Little Indians but wasn't it called And Then There Were None? Pooh would make a treat of a discussion, as well as the poems, When We Were Very Very Young and Now We Are Six. A bear however hard he tries gets tubby without exercise...Whenever I walk on a London street I'm ever so careful to watch my feet... Oh, what joy!

They're changing guard at Buckingham Palace

Christopher Robin went down with Alice

Alice is marrying one of the guards

A soldiers life is terrible hard - says Alice

Theyre changing guard at Buckingham Palace

Christopher Robin went down with Alice

Those four lines stick in my mind. I love AA Milne.

AND

Little boy kneels at the foot of his bed

------------ forgotten this line

God Bless Mummy I know thats right

Wasn't it fun in the bath tonight

With the cold so cold and the hot so hot

God Bless Daddy I quite forgot

If I open my fingers a little bit more

I can see Nannys dressing gown on the door

Its a beautiful blue but it hasn't a hood

Oh God Bless Nanny and Make her good.

Little boy kneels by the foot of the bed

---------- ( that missing line again!)

Hush, Hush, Whisper who dares

Christopher Robin is saying his prayers.

Snatches of these poems come to mind whenever I hear mention of AA Milne.

Carolyn

Ah, Carolyn, shake hands with a fellow fan.

My son and grandson came to visit yesterday. The series of books they are reading together ( fantasy) is called Daltora Quest by Emily Rhoda - an Australian author. I am sure they would be available either in one of the big American booksellers or on an online site. Graham says they bought all except one volume which they have not been able to get hold of at the moment because the whole run was sold out. They are hoping for a reprint. I forget who was asking about the fantasy series but here is the information anyway.

Carolyn

I was the one asking about the fantasy series--thanks, Kiwi lady. Some of Emily Rodda's books seem to be available here. I'll check them out. She's written lots of stuff--listed on her website.

http://www.emilyrodda.com/main.html

Droops on little hands, little gold head...

Love all of A.A. Milne...Have you ever read his son's book? Christopher Milne, of course..It was written in 1974..

Putney, what was Christopher Robin's book about? I was always envious of the love that shines through the Pooh books and the poems. I couldn't imagine being the object of such affection.

It's a memoir..Gives you a wonderful insight to Christoopher's life, but of course, his fathers also..A short book..But it will only make you love A.A. and his stories, even more..

Oh, the honey-bees are gumming
On their little wings, and humming
That the summer, which is comin,
Will be fun.

Remember the fun we had with MY NAME IS RED?

Would anyone like to discuss SNOW? I was told by the bookseller it is somewhat less perplexing than RED. It sounds just as curious judging by Margaret Atwood's review in this link to today's NYT.

SNOW

an excerpt:

'Like Pamuk's other novels, ''Snow'' is an in-depth tour of the divided, hopeful, desolate, mystifying Turkish soul. It's the story of Ka, a gloomy but appealing poet who hasn't written anything in years. But Ka is not his own narrator: by the time of the telling he has been assassinated, and his tale is pieced together by an ''old friend'' of his who just happens to be named Orhan.

As the novel opens, Ka has been in political exile in Frankfurt, but has returned to Istanbul after 12 years for his mother's funeral. He's making his way to Kars, an impoverished city in Anatolia, just as a severe snowstorm begins. (Kar is ''snow'' in Turkish, so we have already been given an envelope inside an envelope inside an envelope.) Ka claims to be a journalist interested in the recent murder of the city's mayor and the suicides of a number of young girls forced by their schools to remove their headscarves, but this is only one of his motives. He also wants to see Ipek, a beautiful woman he'd known as a student. Divorced from a onetime friend of Ka's turned Islamist politician, she lives in the shabby Snow Palace Hotel.'

Snow is not for me.. Sounds way too depressing. Life is short and I try to make it sweet by staying upbeat.

Jonathan,

I would participate in a discussion of Snow. I liked My Name is Red although the reading was tough I felt that it was a type of Literature I have never experienced. He is definitely a writer with an original style and deep knowledge of his culture. A culture I knew nothing about before reading his novel.

Judy

Yes, indeed, I'd like to discuss Snow.

Mal

I would love to discuss "Snow."

Wow Jonathan, looks like you've got a quorum before you even put it up, what month are you thinking of??

Thank you Mrs. Sherlock, what a nice thing to say.

Pamuk received the Nobel prize! WoW! He certainly deserve it, although many in Turkey see it as a political nomination.

It's a great honor for him, and certainly for Turkey. This may indirectly enhance Turkey's chances of admission to the European Union, which is so far by no means assured.

Yes, I would participate in a discussion of Snow ; that's the book I championed (unsuccessfully) in RATW before My Name is Red was chosen.

Stephanie, Pamuk is a master storyteller. His style is so diverting, entertaining, mystifying and awesome, you'll find it impossible to ever find it depressing. Any suggestions to the contrary are probably meant as bait.

Judy, you've gone to the very heart of Pamuk's writing. It's cultural.

Mal, How do you do! Pamuk has given fiction a whole new meaning, hasn't he?

Hats. I was counting on you, to be eager for another book by this incomparable writer. The review excerpt above has the hero of SNOW, like the character Black in RED, coming home after spending 12 years in exile. And, coming home, the adventure begins.

Ginny, this book might just convince you that fiction is the only way to go in this world. Just look at what the truth got this author.

Bubble, I can't understand why he has made himself such a controversial figure. Why is he so determined that the truth should be known?

Traude, You're right. I remember now that you spoke up for SNOW long ago. It would be wonderful, as I'm sure it will be, if a discussion of the book could prove to be the proof of your discrimination and acumen in selecting a very readable book.

It only remains to set a date. Why not early in the new year?

I noticed the Nobel Literature prize announced yesterday went to the author of Snow.. I am a little disturbed in that the opinion over the last few years is that the Nobel committee is using the literature prize to reward dissidents in their home country. I would love to believe that a book prize shouldbe just that.. Either for a specific book or for the body of work.. Hmm..

Stephanie, this is my idea. I am thinking dissidents are the only ones with the bravery, despite the cost to their futures, to speak the truth about the unthinkable situations happening in their countries. Without these voices genocide, hunger, disease would continue for as long as tyrants exist. When people like Orhan Pamuk speak up, the world listens. Then, there is a chance, a great chance for the world to improve for these people. The world also improves for us living on the other side of the world because our conscience will not allow us to sleep peacefully until the whole world gets the chance to live well.

Oh I agree that dissidents are brave beyond belief. The woman from Myanmar who they keep contained in her home just awes me with her courage. My mental note is the actual writer.. Fiction has many purposes.. but am not quite sure I like the idea of rewarding an author for what they believe and not what they write.

Stephanie, I saw an in-depth interview with Pamuk on the"Mcneil Lehrer Roort" last night.

Pamuk insisted that he is telling a story in a way that people from the West can identify with the East and understand that we all have similar feelings, worries and needs. He said that the purpose of Literature is to tell a story and he tells stories of the place he knows best. The authors he mentioned that influenced him were Nabokov, Zola and Sarte.

He is now a visiting Professor of Literature at Columbia so I'm sure that there will no end of interviews and articles about Pamuk. His politics are simply honesty and nothing more. But that is my opinion after reading only one of his books. However it was a great and wonderful novel. After reading it, and knowing nothing of the mans politics I told my face to face book club that he deserves the Nobel Prize. I was laughed at until the folks started actually engaging with his novels. I wonder what they will say today?

Judy

Yay! for Pamuk. There are several interviews (video) with him on the internet.

I love the Pooh books and the two books of poetry, When We Were Very Young and Now We Are Six. All were read to me when I was small, and I read them to my children.

What is the matter with Mary Jane?
She's crying with all her might and main,
And she won't eat her dinner - rice pudding again -
What is the matter with Mary Jane?

What is the matter with Mary Jane?
I've promised her dolls and a daisy-chain,
And a book about animals - all in vain -
What is the matter with Mary Jane?

What is the matter with Mary Jane?
She's perfectly well, and she hasn't a pain;
But, look at her, now she's beginning again! -
What is the matter with Mary Jane?

What is the matter with Mary Jane?
I've promised her sweets and a ride in the train,
And I've begged her to stop for a bit and explain -
What is the matter with Mary Jane?

What is the matter with Mary Jane?
She's perfectly well and she hasn't a pain,
And it's lovely rice pudding for dinner again!
What is the matter with Mary Jane?

~A.A. Milne

Maryal, great, lasting memories.

Judy Shernock, I missed the interview last night with Orhan Pamuk. I hate missing it.

Oh Milne, I loved the When We Were Very Young and Now We Are Six, too. I never see a crack on a sidewalk I don't think of him. Christopher Robin went down with Alice, love Milne.

I loved the ones about Bad King John.

this is memory so it is probably not right:

King John was not a good man,
And no good friends had he.
He stayed in every afternoon
But no one came to tea.

(And he sent himself cards, too, love that one).

And wasn't there another one about a king, I must look those up. I think I just realized what I'll get my coming grandchild!

And Frog and Toad. My children loved the Frog and Toad books.

OH golly and wasn't it Milne with the King told the Gardener and the Gardener told the Alderly and something about marmalade is very tasty if it's very thickly spread?

Oh I love Milne.

'Are we going to be friends forever? Asked Piglet. Even longer, Pooh answered." --A. A. Milne Winnie the Pooh

The King asked
The Queen, and
The Queen asked
The Dairymaid:
"Could we have some butter for
The Royal slice of bread?"
The Queen asked the Dairymaid,
The Dairymaid
Said, "Certainly,
I'll go and tell the cow
Now
Before she goes to bed."

The Dairymaid
She curtsied,
And went and told the Alderney:
"Don't forget the butter for
The Royal slice of bread."

The Alderney said sleepily:
"You'd better tell
His Majesty
That many people nowadays
Like marmalade
Instead."

The Dairymaid
Said "Fancy!"
And went to
Her Majesty.
She curtsied to the Queen, and
She turned a little red:
"Excuse me,
Your Majesty,
For taking of
The liberty,
But marmalade is tasty, if
It's very
Thickly

Spread."

The Queen said
"Oh!"
And went to his Majesty:
"Talking of the butter for
The royal slice of bread,
Many people
Think that
Marmalade
Is nicer.
Would you like to try a little
Marmalade
Instead?"

The King said,
"Bother!"
And then he said,
"Oh, deary me!"
The King sobbed, "Oh, deary me!"
And went back to bed.
"Nobody,"
He whimpered,
"Could call me
A fussy man;
I only want
A little bit
Of butter for
My bread!"

The Queen said,
"There, there!"
And went to
The Dairymaid.
The Dairymaid
Said, "There, there!"
And went to the shed.
The cow said,
"There, there!
I didn't really
Mean it;
Here's milk for his porringer
And butter for his bread."

The queen took the butter
And brought it to
His Majesty.
The King said
"Butter, eh?"
And bounced out of bed.
"Nobody," he said,
As he kissed her
Tenderly,
"Nobody," he said,
As he slid down
The banisters,
"Nobody,
My darling,
Could call me
A fussy man -
BUT
I do like a little bit of butter to my bread!"

-- A. A. Milne

Yeah!

Stephanie, You are right, imo, to express concern that the prize is so political, the literary prize. This means that great authors go unrewarded simply because they forsake the opportunity to use their voices in political ways. However, Pamuk is possibly, imo, one of the most brilliant writers alive today. He is extraordinarily literary, so I have no doubts that he deserves the acclaim that will come from this prize, as his prose has already assured him of living forever. However, I don't think the Nobel committee would have been astute enough to have noticed how fine and extraordinarily original a writer the man is, had he not challenged the Turkish government and the world on the Armenian genocides.

Jonathan, count me in.

Traude, I often wish there were a Traude's picks book discussion board. I think you mention more books I have never heard of that pique my curiosity than anyone else.

Kleo

King John's Christmas

King John was not a good man —
He had his little ways.
And sometimes no one spoke to him
For days and days and days.
And men who came across him,
When walking in the town,
Gave him a supercilious stare,
Or passed with noses in the air —
And bad King John stood dumbly there,
Blushing beneath his crown.

King John was not a good man,
And no good friends had he.
He stayed in every afternoon ...
But no one came to tea.
And, round about December,
The cards upon his shelf
Which wished him lots of Christmas cheer,
And fortune in the coming year,
Were never from his near and dear,
But only from himself.

King John was not a good man,
Yet had his hopes and fears.
They’d given him no present now
For years and years and years.
But every year at Christmas,
While minstrels stood about,
Collecting tribute from the young
For all the songs they might have sung,
He stole away upstairs and hung
A hopeful stocking out.
King John was not a good man,
He lived his life aloof;
Alone he thought a message out
While climbing up the roof.
He wrote it down and propped it
Against the chimney stack:
“TO ALL AND SUNDRY - NEAR AND FAR -
F. CHRISTMAS IN PARTICULAR.”
And signed it not “Johannes R.”
But very humbly, “JACK.”

“I want some crackers,
And I want some candy;
I think a box of chocolates
Would come in handy;
I don’t mind oranges,
I do like nuts!
And I SHOULD like a pocket-knife
That really cuts.
And, oh! Father Christmas, if you love me at all,
Bring me a big, red india-rubber ball!”

King John was not a good man —
He wrote this message out,
And gat him to his room again,
Descending by the spout.
And all that night he lay there,
A prey to hopes and fears.
“I think that’s him a-coming now,
(Anxiety bedewed his brow.)
“He’ll bring one present, anyhow —
The first I’ve had for years.

“Forget about the crackers,
And forget about the candy;
I’m sure a box of chocolates
Would never come in handy;
I don’t like oranges,
I don’t want nuts,
And I HAVE got a pocket-knife
That almost cuts.
But, oh! Father Christmas, if you love me at all,
Bring me a big, red india-rubber ball!”

King John was not a good man —
Next morning when the sun
Rose up to tell a waiting world
That Christmas had begun,
And people seized their stockings,
And opened them with glee,
And crackers, toys and games appeared,
And lips with sticky sweets were smeared,
King John said grimly: “As I feared,
Nothing again for me!”

“I did want crackers,
And I did want candy;
I know a box of chocolates
Would come in handy;
I do love oranges,
I did want nuts.
I haven’t got a pocket-knife —
Not one that cuts.
And, oh! if Father Christmas had loved me at all,
He would have brought a big, red india-rubber ball!”

King John stood by the window,
And frowned to see below
The happy bands of boys and girls
All playing in the snow.
A while he stood there watching,
And envying them all...
When through the window big and red
There hurtled by his royal head,
And bounced and fell upon the bed,
An india-rubber ball!

AND OH, FATHER CHRISTMAS,
MY BLESSINGS ON YOU FALL
FOR BRINGING HIM
A BIG, RED
INDIA-RUBBER
BALL!

GINNY & DEEMS: Thank you for the A. A. Milne. I don't know how I missed these growing up, but the big smile on my face now means I am going to go find what I missed!

Babi

oh Deems, that gave me chills and actually has brought tears to my eyes, thank you. I do remember that, now, "he had his little ways." hahahaa

I had a high school teacher who sent herself Christmas cards, I guess that's why this one resonated with me so much.

I love Milne's use of language. I love the way Milne sounds when you read him. I loved just reading the butter one out loud, it's amazing what he did with cadences and what the reader can do with expression.

I DO love oranges, I DID want nuts.....love it. Love the meessage there. Nobody like Milne.

(How is Milne pronounced, Deems?)

Babi

We need to read Milne, I had forgotten how good he is.

The Ant and Bee books were also a favorite.

http://www.apathyhouse.com/antnbee/books.html

I heard that Snow by Orhan Pamuk is being considered for a discussion. If it is, I'd like to take part in it...I loved his My Name is Red!

Alliemae

Just read the Milne and posts too...I'll be reading right along with you all...I missed him as a child as well!!

Alliemae

Thanks, Pat, for the link to the childrens books...this Nana is always looking for them!!

Alliemae

I was a failure as a mother; I could read Milne, I read them William Pene DuBois, John Ciardi, Little House books, all about Toad Hall, but I could never get past the first chapter of Peter Pan. Why? Cause i broke up trying to read about their nanny being a dog and they hoed no one noticed; and their father hadn't figured measles into his calculations, so that threw all the expenses askew. I would be crying I was laughing so hard. Eventually, we all had to give it up and go on as if it hadn't happened. I hang my head in shame.

MrsSherlock, don't kid yourself; that was a more valuable lesson than just reading the books.

hahaah This is interesting! To this day I have never read Peter Pan NOR Pooh, so I have no idea what people are talking about with Pooh's Corner. I never read the Narnia chronicles.

There is a website called Brainstorms where people who....consider themselves brainy I guess hang out and one of their things is a contest really to list the most famous or familiar books you NEVER read, I really think I could win that one, but if we're counting, I have to say without apology I never read the Pooh books and the Peter Pan (never liked that woman on Broadway with it flying all over the place, Mary Martin? Could not deal with the fact she was a woman, couldn't understand that as a youngster), ...actually never understood the furor about Joel Grey either, but now in my dotage I DO understand the one about Johnny Depp, and have sort of wondered idly IF in fact, I have entered the Twilight Zone o Whatever.

A lot of people have recommended the movie Neverland (is that the name of it) about Barrie (who wrote Peter Pan, maybe?) also played by Johnny Depp, have you all seen it?

At any rate, no Peter Pan here, either. No Lion Witch and Wardrobe, no Narnia. No Pooh Corner.

What's THE most famous Book You Never Read?

Don Quichotte de la Mancha for me... I stopped at page 10.

If we can name an adult book, I would choose "David Copperfield" by Charles Dickens. I feel guilty everytime Melanie reads from the first chapter of "David Copperfield "I was born" in "Gone With The Wind." Melanie's voice is so good as she reads. So, I promise myself to read the book everytime.

I loved David Copperfield! and Oliver Twist as well. Have you seen the musical Oliver, Hats? I saw it at the opening in London, long ago... what a feast for ears and eyes that gala night was. Bubble

"Neverland" is a good movie, but only because of Johnny Depp. Depp is a genius of an actor. Watch "Benny and Joon"; then watch "Pirates of the Caribbean", and you'll see what I mean.

Among books I wish I had never read is Grimm's "Fairy Tales", one of the most frightening and violent books I ever allowed to enter my brain.

Mal

Bubble, I missed the musical, Oliver. I envy your night in London. What a great experience!

Right Mal, There is so much violence in "Grimm's Fairy Tales".

I loved Milne.. My Aunt read it to me and I read it to the boys and now my grandchildren. I smile and love to read the poems out loud. Piglet is a favorite. I loved Alice and Peter Pan..Hated The Hobbitt.. My most famous book never read has to be Roots,, never saw it on tv either.. Just not interesting. As a committed genealogist, his leaps into fantasy seemed silly..

Hobbit, I never read those either, David Copperfield is THE most wonderful book and I did not read Oliver Twist till I saw the movie and then read it and loved it, also. I love Dickens.

Book I wish I had never read? Anything by (sorry) James Fennimore Cooper, hated the Longstocking (??) stuff. BOR-ing. Sorry. Sorry. And that's another one I never read: Pipi Longstocking. Was it Longstocking in Cooper? it was LONG I know that, talk about Henry James, it takes Cooper 8 pages to say he walked away. Boringly.

The new book out on the Grimm Brothers reveals a lot was actually left OUT of those tales, believe it or not.

I loved The Hobbit. I didn't read "The Lord of The Rings or the rest of the trilogy. I missed the movie too.

Oh, I loved "Roots," the movie. I never read the book. I want to read the book.

I never read "Charlotte's Web" by E.B. White.

Now I really want to read David Copperfield. I have never read 1984 by Orwell.

Why don't the Joan and PatH separate pictures don't show up in the Book Family? Shouldn't the display and the book be the same?

I have never read "The Lovely Bones" by Alice Sebold. The title stops me. I am sure this is a moving story. I have it on my shelf. I know it was read here in the past. One day I will read it too. I try not to pass up books involving human suffering.

Pat probably hasn't had time, Bubble, she's busy with our preparations for the 20th Anniversary Conference, I'm sure she will get to it soon or tell us why not! Thank you for noticing, I'm not sure everybody has.

Me too, Hats!

Bubble, you're right. I should put the twins in separately in the Book Family. Thanks, for the reminder.

My childhood was made of books..They took me to a world outside of the not very happy one, where I "really"lived..Peter Rabbit, to Peter Pan..All of Pooh's Hundred Acre friends, were my friends..Then came Alice and Dorothy, followed by RLS, Dickens,etc.etc...Those books enriched my life, and my daughters all tell me that they remember them fondly too..

As a child, I never heard of Milne.
Fortunately, we got all of his books to read to our kids!
My husband even made up additional "Pooh-stories" for bed time that weren't in the books; no such
thing as too much Winnie-the-Pooh in our house!

Ginny ~ You mentioned the movie Neverland about 25 posts back.
I did rent it a while ago; it was depressing. If you want a movie like that, anyway, it was good acting, I recall.

I guess it is almost trite to say that I never read Ulysses. I loved Tale of Two Cities, read Les Miserables in school and hated/loved it. Love the songs from the musical. Sneaked Forever Amber when I was 10 or so; boring.

Oh well the two most hyped Broadway shows I ever saw were Les Miserables and Cats, just hated the last one so much I gave up my seat at intermission to an avid fan, (and I love TS Eliot) and as for Les Miserables (I liked the book) hahaha when that stage turned around and Jean valJean was seen dead on the ramparts I wanted to cheer, oh MAN that was a bad performance that time. hahaaa

However I admit to strange taste in Broadway shows. I am sure none of you would sit thru as many showings of Starlight Express and Bombay Dreams as I have. hahahaa

Babar's one you don't hear much about these days, did anybody read it, and what was the one with the little girl in the Paris school, that one went by me also.

Hats, I loved the movie Roots and have watched it more than once. bought and Read George Orwells 1984 s long time ago and still have it, I like it.

The books about Madeline, by Ludwig Bemelmans, is a series about little girls in Paris schools, and elsewhere.
There are perhaps a dozen of these books now, with dolls to match.
My daughter's favorite line was:
To the lion in the zoo, she says poo-poo (is that possible?)

Also loved the Babar books, there are many of those.
One place he talks about the "soup" chef, it was sous-chef in French and was
translated wrong, according to a friend who read it in French. Isn't that cute?
Do you remember the elephant turning green after eating bad mushrooms?

My grandchildren love both of these series, and I enjoy reading them over and over when I visit.

Ginny--- MILN just like MILK only with an N sound at the end.

There are lots of books I haven't read. Hats--You MUST read Charlotte Web. Do you have any g'children around eight to ten? If so, read it aloud to them. It is very very very good.

Maybe we ought to have David Copperfield in the running next time we have a great books nomination? It's a really good novel--very long too--but good. Dickens put some of his childhood into it as well as his first love.

Ginny--I know CATS was the most popular play for heaven only knows how long. I hated it. Hated it. People in cat costumes singing. ICK.

Hated fairy tales and thus missed much of the gore although I've read most of the biggies as an adult. Didn't like Alice. Didn't read any of the Oz books. Ditto Peter Pan. Enjoyed the movie NEVERLAND though I can't remember it (usually a bad sign for me since I expect I'll remember things in movies long after I've forgotten my dog's name).

Loved Pooh, Mary Poppins, all the Anne books, all horse books, Terhune's collie books and mostly all dog books, Black Beauty even though it made me terribly sad. And so forth and so on. Never could get into Nancy Drew or Cherry someone who was a nurse. By the time my friends were promoting Nancy D, I was reading Agatha Christie and John Dickson Carr (in all his pseudonyms too).

I absolutely disliked Five Little Peppers and How They Grew and all its sequels. Ditto Bobsey Twins. Just came to me--I think the student nurse was Cherry Ames.

Maryal

Ginny-Thanks for reminding me of Babar and his family. I loved the books as a child, read them to kids and Grandkids and would sit down and reread them this minute if someone put them in front of me .

Famous books I haven't read and probably never will are Le Miserable, the Hunchback of Notre Dame and the Hobbit books. Saw all of them in movie format and found them too bizarre.

Grimm Fairy Tales prepare you for life .They are full of symbols and underlying meanings that has appealed to children for three hundred years and, like Aesops fables ,are timeless. If bad things happen to you as a child, you can always reflect that they are not quite as bad as what happened to Red Riding Hood or Hansel and Gretel. If they made it through, so can you.

Judy

What about Tom and the Water babies? I read everything when I was about 7. I devoured Gullivers Travels, Grimms Fairy Tales, Hans Christian Anderson, A childs garden of verses, All of Dickens books. I would have the serious books on one side and then some popular ones as well reading two books at the same time. I tend to do that today. One heavy one a light read. I launched into the Brontes at quite an early age alongside Jane Austen. Louise May Alcotts books were my dearest friends along with The Anne series. How I loved the way Anne showed her temper. I longed to do the same but never quite dared to! Lately I have been rereading some of my childhood favorites and thoroughly enjoying them. My second childhood! LOL

Carolyn

I like the Lassie books, Black Beauty, Rin tin tin and the movies. Am watching Horse Wisperer again today.

Most famous books I NEVER read and likely never will read, are the Harry Potter books and the Hobbit/Lord of the Rings Trilogy, etc. I don't care for mysticism, fantasy, ghosts, witches, devils, spells, time travel, or anything that touches on science fiction. A friend recently gave me a copy of "Time Traveler's Wife", and I hated it after a couple of chapters, and gave it back.

I like reality in my reading and in my movie viewing. As a child I didn't like "Alice in Wonderland" at all, but loved "Heidi", "Hans Brinker", and all the horse and dog books like "Black Beauty", "My Friend Flicka", "Lassie", "Old Yeller" and "Call of the Wild". The only fantasy books I loved and still love are the OZ books, which I devoured as a child. That includes "The Wizard of Oz" movie - one of my all time favorites.

Ginny- how could one forget Babar? lol I wonder if Becassine books were also translated? the stories of an innocent, naive, down to earth Bretagne (Brittany?) girl.

Marilyn--

Me too. Fantasy makes me feel creepy, always has, even the benign fairy kind. Just don't like it. (Folks who were in Don Quixote will remember my rant against clowns, also creepy.) But mostly, thank you for reminding me of Heidi. I had bronchitis a lot as a child and the treatment then was to stay in bed forever, under a steam tent. I was read to quite a bit by both g'mother and father. They had their favorites to read. ONe of my grandmother's favorites was the Heidi books, so I've "read"/heard them all, most more than twice.

WHERE is Andrea? We haven't seen her around for a long time--or I haven't. Is she visiting grands again?

I began a blog yesterday.

Please come visit. There are three entries so please if you visit read them all.

I would love for you to leave honest comments. My blog is called "Thoughts from Aotearoa" the web address is: http://kiwilady2006.wordpress.com/

Carolyn

You have mentioned many of my old favorites but I think you missed my childrens favorites. Richard Harry Scarry`s books were wore completely out so they were not available for my grands.

One of my son's favorite books when he was a little boy was "Ira Sleeps Over" by Bernard Waber. What a wonderful sweet story about a little boy who spends the night at his friend's - his first night away from home. He has to go home and get his teddy bear to sleep and then he discovers that his friend still sleeps with a teddy bear, too.

Our library has the book about the little boy and his bear. My son liked to take his bear to bed til he was about 9 or 10. It got loved to death! Literally.

Carolyn

Carolyn, your blog is charming! Since i have long wanted to visit your part of the world, I get vicarious enjoyment of your observations about spring while I see the leaves turning color and falling. Good luck, I will be reading as you go along.

I remember Richard Scarry, especially his good manners book, I can't remember the title. I read it over and over, in the hope some of it would rub off. I loved Patricia Wrightson and her spirits of the Bush. The Nargun and the Stars would put shivers up my spine!

I couldn't stand Pollyanna, she was such a goody-goody. The Bobbsey Twins too. I liked a bit of rebellion in my books, which Made Seven Little Australians a classic.

Dr. Seuss with those lovely repetitive verses. Left foot, right foot. Feet. Feet. Feet. Oh, how many feet you meet! Lovely read aloud books. Some wonderful English books, Tom's Midnight Garden by Philippa pierce, The Ghost Of Thomas Kempe by Penelope Lively and The House At Norwich Gardens, are incredibly beautiful.(anything by her really) Out Of The Ordinary by Annie Dalton is incredibly good. K.M.Peyton from England is an outstanding writer, I've never felt let down by her.

Grownup books--anything by Penelope Lively, I'm her biggest fan. Pat Barker or Baker?, who wrote those beautiful evocative and confronting WW1 books. Tim Winton's Dirt Music has captured me now. So many I'll think of later!

The book I've never read is The Dictionary without the "rude' words underlined! Mine are passed down from the boys. One had the grace to blush when I mentioned this to him.

Ginger, I am glad you love Roots too. When he holds the baby up to the sky, I'm a goner. I start crying immediately.

Maryal,I will read "Charlotte's Web." I do have a fine excuse. I have my grandboys. Their ages are seven down to three years old. They are a lively bunch of sweetiepies. I hated "Cat" too. I never went to see it. I just don't like people pretending to be cats. Remember how Eartha Kitt would act like a cat, make that funny grrrr sound? I just never could look at her without thinking of her slinking around trying to be a cat? I love cats. I have a cat. People pretending to be cats???? No way.

Kiwi Lady I can't wait to look at your blog. I have a friend. She keeps a very nice one. Everytime I look at hers, I want to do one too. She knits socks, reads, quilts. All of it is on her blog. Plus, all of the books she reads too.

Jan, my boys loved the Dr. Seuss books, Curious George and The Hardy Boys. Well, one loved the Hardy Boys.

Madeleine is adorable. I think J. Shernock mentioned Madeleine. I loved The Little Princess and Heidi. I also read Caddie Woodlawn in school.

Hats--So happy to hear that you will read CHARLOTTE'S WEB. I recommend it as a read aloud for the 7 year old. There may not be enough pictures for the little guys. And you will need to take it chapter by chapter what with attention spans and all.

I loved reading Scarry's books to my children, Roseda. The big one with sections, largely pictures with the name written underneath, cars, busses, occupations, families, and various other categories was my son's absolute favorite. He loved that book. There was a little mouse that appeared on every page no matter what the category was. Does anyone remember his name? It's driving me crazy. Two words, I think one was "mouse."

Where are you ANDY?????

Alf spends part of the year up in the north. I think in the Aderondacks( whew. spelling). I l oved Cats.. not Les Mis...Loved Superstar more though. Starlight was a one time for me. OK, but just one time did it. Phantom same thing.. one time and out.. I loved The Secret Garden when I was young. Every girls dreams. A handsome absent guardian. etc. Akin to I was left off at this horrible place by the fairies. My real home is the palace..

Alf, please come and make us laugh.

Little boys love the detail in Richard Scarrys Books. I do think he caters for them with all the cars, buses, trucks etc.

Carolyn

My boys loved the Scarry books. Those are good books.

JAN, if you didn't like Pollyanna, then Elsie Dinsmore would have absolutely set your teeth on edge. I thought her very fine and soulful, but my mother couldn't stand her! Now...I agree with my mother.

Babi

I love Pollyanna. She always sees the good side in the worse situation. I would love to be a Pollyanna in my thoughts.

Hats there are times to be a Pollyanna and there are times not to be a Pollyanna. Sometimes we have to take off rose coloured glasses in order to make changes to bad things in our society. I think its good to have a balance in life.

Carolyn

Kiwi Lady, that's true. I hadn't thought of Pollyanna in that way. Wearing rose colored glasses is very unbalanced and unsafe too. I have gotten in trouble, at times, for wearing those rose colored glasses. Thanks for giving me another way to see Pollyanna.

How about rose-colored lens on the right side and dark-colored on the left -- for balance.

Robby

My Mother and Grandmother loved Polyanna and Elsie Dinsmore.. Unfortunately the small blonde tomboy they got stuck with did not. I loved books, but hated those. Escaped to the outside whenever I could. When I was growing up in the country outside of a small town, I was teased because when I was about 4, I used to escape my mother, go outside and peel off every single bit of clothes.. Then turn on the ouside faucet and sit under it.. I called it my waterfall and I would guess that all of the adults in town had seen me at one time or another. Glad to grow up and leave.. Those things are always hard to live down in a small town. Between that and being the Christmas Angel in a pagent and showing with a brand new black eye made me not the angel of my Moms dreams.

Stephanie: Sound's like you should write a book!

Stephanie, You have me LOL. OH! the antics of children.

I loved Charlotte's Web. I named my last yellow lab Wilbur after Wilbur, the pig.

Have you seen that a new version of the film "Charlotte's Web" is coming out soon? I saw the preview last week when I was at the movie theater. It looks very very sweet. It's done in the format of the movie "Babe" about the pig. Here are several pictures about it:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0413895/

When he was young my son also enjoyed the Frances (the badger) books by Russell Hoban, illustrated by Lillian Hoban. I loved them, too! One was Bread and Jam for Frances and then there was Bedtime for Frances.

Curious Minds is opened for October - wouldn't you like to share your a bit about the four guests you would invite to be a part of a dream conversation? They can be four guests from history or, who are currently alive. Folks you would like to know more about therefore, day dream an invitation to them to your gathering. Further, day dream the question you would like to ask them that you just know they alone could answer. A fun way to imagine a conversation in a setting that matches your fantasy dreams.

What about a favorite author or someone who lived during the time that few could read but they were reading Chaucer or how about some folks who struggled over leaving their home for a better life or a past president who made a decision we still live with today or maybe an early scientist and just where and how did they obtain their supplies - on and on - the imagination of those of us on Seniornet is broad and this is your opportunity to share who you would invite to your dream conversation.

patwest, "Curious Minds ~ Who's Coming to Dinner? - Starting - October 16" #107, 11 Oct 2006 8:06 am

Well, Stephanie, at least you were in your own yard. I am told that when I was about three, I woke up before everyone else one morning. Deciding it would be nice if my young Aunt 'Re (Marie) would dress me, I gathered up my clothes and trotted off, unclad, down the street to find her!

Babi

I had a neighbour who was a real Pollyanna, and sometimes she drove me crazy. I was so angry at a teenager once, and I was having a lovely moan about him. Karen said, now Jan if anything happened to him you'd be broken hearted. Of course I would, but I just wanted to wallow in my anger for awhile. It helps to vent! I tend to see the best in people and give them the benefit of the doubt, eg. I always think that people who cut me off in traffic could be having a hard time in their life.I would have warmed to Pollyanna, if she'd just been more human sometimes.

In all fairness to Pollyanna, she did come to a place in her life when the sunny attitude failed her, and she despaired just like the rest of us mortals. I remember, too, that this attitude toward disappointments had been taught her by her missionary father. There were so many disappointments in her life, as the daughter of an impoverished missionary, that he gave her this tool to deal with them. With that in mind, I didn't find the 'Pollyanna' attitude exasperating.

Babi

Stephanie, maybe you weren't the dream "angel child", but you were the kind of child I wanted, and mostly got. My daughters never happened to think of hosing down in full view (probably because of the location of our hose) but they were the same tomboy type, thank goodness. They are now, as grownups, doing their best to make the world a better place.

Well BaBi, I might have been too hard on her. I was very young when I read the book. I remember at Christmas, we'd always get Annuals and they were full of stories about girls at boarding school, perhaps they were sent by English rellies. I'll never know now. We used to get pretty boxes of lace hankies too, but my mother is the only person I know who owns a hankie.

Hankies.. Oh me, I had a great aunt that every single year for Christmas, I got a hand embroidered hankie and a handmade apron.. Now I would appreciate them, but at 10 or so.. Nada..I am a nice calm respectable matron now, but as a child was the worst daredevil possible. My Dad and Uncles encouraged me and I would climb anything, jump off anything, rode not only my pony, but my Dad and Uncles singlefooters and jumpers from an early age. Once managed to get the pony and I to attack a buzzard ( dont ask).. Buzzard incidently have a truly evil weapon, never ever try to budge them..

Stephanie: I know what you mean about buzzards!! As a child I lived in the country with hundreds of acres to roam in. My best friend annoyed a buzzard and was regurgitated upon. At the time I was sorry to have missed that!! Kids can be pretty gruesome, right?

I saw other kids at school of course, but the summers were just me and my younger brothers and sisters. I read everything I could find and did a lot of reading to the little kids; thus they heard Treasure Island, Kidnapped and the Jungle Books etc. even if they were too young - supposedly! I even remember reading Shakespeare's Julius Caesar to them.

I used to read everything also. I really annoyed my siblings when I sat at the breakfast table reading the cereal boxes. From four or so I read nearly all the time, would even take a book with me to the barn or chicken house or up a tree. Anywhere I could get away to read in private, even the nessasary when nessasary.Our present family library fills 2 closets and 2 rooms. We are moving so must sell them , give them away, anything so we will fit into a smaller place. As we age we have to give way to the things we love, even books.

Stephanie- My Mother and aunts were Handkercheif mad also. I always thought it an English Heritage thing. But today' I too have handkercheifs hidden in the underwear drawer together with the pouches of lavender. I even grow lavender in my garden. It reminds me of my Mother. Strange which details follow you over time and throughout your years.

Were we all Tomboys who read incessantly? Is this the prototype of young girls who join the Book Nook as Seniors? Do we jump into things instead of jumping off of things?

Judy

I was the bookworm in our family and I was also known as Miss Goody Two Shoes by my siblings. I was the eldest and had a lot of responsibility regarding the care of my siblings. Maybe that is why they regarded me so. I was no way a Tomboy!

I suspect all of us who spend part of every day in the book discussions have been avid readers from our earliest years. I, too, read cereal boxes if there was nothing else handy. All my family were readers, and my children inherited the trait. That fact did not keep the younger two from referring to the eldest as 'Saint Sally', CAROLYN. I think it must come from the eldest usually being the most confident and responsible child. Sally, my firstborn, was so easy to raise I thought there was nothing to this Motherhood bit. So, then I went and had two more, and learned my mistake!

Babi

HAs anyone read Richard Paul Evans new book called "Finding Noel?"

Hello Sbucher ~ Welcome to SeniorNet! You've landed in the Great Books discussion - we discuss the Oldies. I'm going to move your post to the Book Nook Welcome Center where I am sure you will be greeted warmly and perhaps will even find someone who has read "Finding Noel"!

Again, welcome!

I think that all of us were early readers and like all else , if the cereal box was it, I read the cereal box. I carried a book in my saddlebags when I rode my pony, since I used an old fashioned cavalry saddle.. Fun and lots of ways to tie stuff on. I used to get on the pony, homemade lunch, canteen and a book and off we went for the day. She was a great joy and loved the adventure as much as I did. I thought I was alone and undetected, but learned later that all of our neighbors ( many of them amish) always kept track of me and would let my mother know I was OK.. just out for the day.

"were we all tomboys who read"

Maybe "tomboys" is a misnomer, maybe we were just behaving the way most girls behave, enjoying life, our bodies, exploring the environment, exploring the world, enjoying challenging, exciting things. Let's start a movement to ban the word tomboys...........and assume that's what little girls are made of!!........hhhuuuummmm.....jean

I read a lot as a child, but I was mostly a tomboy or "hoyden" as my mother preferred to call me. I spent every possible minute outside and really enjoyed summer days when I was allowed to go out after supper. We lived in Chicago, right in the city. But there was still a lot of Outside to explore.

I read on rainy and snowy days and in the evening after I was tucked into bed, lying on my stomach on the floor near the bathroom (light kept on because my g'mother lived with us) for hours. I was a night person even then.

Maryal

I used to stay up all night reading when I had a good book - just couldn't put it down. I'd have the light on and would quickly turn it off if I heard my parents' footsteps on the stairs. To this day, I stay up til all hours reading. I used to read books during school, too. I'd hide my book inside my textbook and pretend to be reading the text during class.

One of the best things that ever happened to me was when I finally (just a couple of years ago) stopped getting carsick when I read a book while riding in the car. Now I can read on a road trip. My husband likes to do the driving while listening to a ballgame. So, I get to read. It's great!

MARNI, now that's what I call a well-matched couple. You can both enjoy what you like best!

Babi

Well if nothing happens and it might, some of us are off to DC on Thursday, some Friday to meet in person and represent the Books and the Classics Project at the SN 20th Anniversary Conference.

We'll meet, some for the first time, and some for the upteenth time and enjoy ourselves tremendously. Some of us have been to our Books Gatherings, some of us met in 1997 at the last National SeniorNet Conference in Wilmington DE, either way, new friends or old, it will be a blast, and you'll be able to share in it online as well.

So keep the home fires burning and watch for smoke signals!! hahahaa

I will be seeing patients until late on Thursday, so I probably won't arrive at the hotel until about 8 p.m.

Robby

You lucky dogs! Give my regards to all the Bookies you see there!

Carolyn

Good luck to all attending the conference. I know you will have fun..

To all, have a fun and safe time at the Seniornet conference.

Thanks everyone for the good wishes. Robby see you at the conferance, leaving for the airport in about an hour.

Amparo made it to Dulles Airport late last night - after having been in the air over 20 hours coming from Adelaide, Australia. Did I spell that right? She cleared Customs in no time and had actually come out the arrival door when I got there - I totally forgot to take her picture!!! I'm sorry. SHe was the first to arrive and I'm sure will have come the furthest distance!

I will see her today after picking up Patwest...and will take her photo then. A lovely, energetic woman! She said it was adrenalin! I had expected her to be exhausted, but she looked as fresh as a...daisy.

Have a wonderful time everybody.

I am so jealous of you folks going to this gathering . I will be there in spirit- not quite as good as being there in person.

Have a marvelous time and report back all the details-even the laughs!

Best Wishes,

Judy

Have a wonderful time in D.C.! I'm glad I had my chance to go a couple of years ago.

Babi

Just a few minutes before running off to the DC bus tour, but wanted to share these photos if there is time. Will resize when I get home -
New-fangled camera was acting up - too many buttons. Will take more this evening.

Amparo Moya de la Mancho from the Don Quixote discussion
Came all the way from Australia - the first to arrive

Delightful Pat Westerdale, the next to arrive on Thursday morning

Joan K - what a sweet lady!
We were all so happy she came -
...and especially happy she made the bus tour too!

a bunch at the Jaleo restaurant Thursday night. That's Joan Roberts in the foreground
We'll let Maryal tell her story herself! She took the scenic route!

Amparo translated Spanish menu to Ginger (in the red hat!)

Ginger and PatH at the Jaleo

Ginny arrived on Friday in time for lunch!

Can you see the boot hooks Ginger brought for her?

Great Pictures! Almost like being there. Thanks for letting us share.

How disappointing, every one has a red x.

Oh how sad for you..I could see them all just fine ,,Great pictures..

Photos are great...everyone looks so happy - wish I was there....

The photos are wonderful. Thank you for sharing a good time with us.

Photos are great.. I even recognize some people from the bookie week.

At what site is the conference?......jean

I believe they're at the Hilton Arlington and Towers, Arlington VA

jane

When does the conference end???? I miss everybody.

I believe it's over tomorrow.

http://www.seniornet.org/web/default.php?PageID=7962

is where you can read about it. It says there:

SeniorNet's 20th Anniversary Conference and Celebration
October 20-21, 2006

Jane, thanks. I bet going to one of those conferences is very memorable.

Our bookie week at the beach was fantastic. Lots of eating out,, playing games,, walking on the beach and gatherine around while some of the people cooked was fun.

Did Mary Alice Monroe attend that one? I really would have liked to been there.

Hats yes she was there. A lovely lady

Judy, I bet she is a "lovely" lady. I love her books.

I found out by accident some time ago that if you get the "dreaded" red X, and RIGHT click onto the X, a panel drops down which says "show picture" and sometimes you can bring up the photo.

Robby

Oh, great pictures!!! Thanks, JoanP!!! So fun to see everyone. And Amparo made it from Australia!!!

Is Ginny doing something naughty in her picture or am I seeing things?!

Robby: I never heard that before. I'm going to try it next time it happens. Thanks for the tip.

Marni

Marni:-Why don't you back up to the ones you couldn't get and try again with your right click?

Robby

It's very, very quiet in Arlington tonight. Everyone is either home or enroute. THings should be back to normal in here by morning, Hats!

I'll try to get some more photos in here tonight - before falling asleep over the keyboard!

Marni, Ginny is holding the boot hooks that Ginger brought her. They do look "naughty" - don't they? I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the expression on her face. I'll go backwards and add that to her photo!

Missed you all - next time!

I knew about "show picture" and tried it yesterday?day before?. My memory is a sieve! Anyway it didn't work then, but today they're all there, without any right clicking.

I read that you can have amnesia and deja vu simultaneously. You remember that you forgot the same thing before

Jan I had the same thing.Maybe the photos take longer to get all the way down here. LOL!

Carolyn

Jan, that's really funny.

I think the photos took long to load because I made them smaller, but didn't compress them. Am working on them now. Sorry. I have been in a real hurry these days.

How are you doíng, Pat?

Very well. The scrapes and cuts are healing nicely, I'm not nearly as stiff and sore as I thought I would be, and no new symptoms have appeared. My face is rather colorful, though. Thanks for all your help. I posted a note in the conference discussion.

Good! I'll go look. Wish you had let me take your picture!

By tomorrow we'll have a special album of these photos in a new discussion so they won't slow down the Book Nook here. This is just a temporary interuption. Still need compression, but will leave these new photos now. There were may cameras clicking - I kept forgetting I had mine with me!

Mippy made it for the dinner at Phillips crab house. - on right
Pedln and Amparo on the left.

Maryal, Ginny, Bruce, Joan K and PatH in deep discussion.
Who knows what/who Ginny and Bruce are discussing!

More crab eaters - Judy, Patwest, Fran and Joan R

Ginny and JoanP on Friday pm - Washington Monument in the background

Flash was making us squint - Bruce said open wide, so we did...

That's Marcie at the FDR monument.
Hard to tell because his head is out of the picture -
But you can see Fala!

Mippy, Mike and Robby at a Conference session on Saturday

Ginger and Marcie say goodbye in hotel lobby on Sunday morning.
Didn't recognize Ginger without her red hat!

Pat, Marcie, Ginny ...and Amparo at the Korean Monument

Amparo, Marcie and Ginny at the Lincoln Monument

Amparo, Joan, Marcie, Ginny and Pat W

Great photos, Joan. I watched Bruce taking the photo of Joan and Ginny at the FDR memorial (Wash. monument in background) and remember the instruction to "open wide."

Amparo must have won the prize for farthest traveling. I hope she got one. What a delight it was to meet her--and the energy she has. Wow.

Maryal

JoanP and All, what wonderful, wonderful photos!! I am soooo glad Amparo made it too. She deserved a wonderful trip after Don Quixote. I hope she didn't bring that heavy book along with her. I will look at these photos over and over. Ginny, I am glad you made it too. Looking at your coat, it must have been a bit chilly. I haven't seen Deems, Robby, and some of the others. Ginger, I love that adorable red hat. I am buying one too. Did any of you do some dancing????

I can see Mippy. How exciting!!!!

Oh, I see Maryal. What is Dungeness?????

Robby, looks very handsome and professional. Did you guys see Juan Williams??????? Don't tell me. I will die in my seat. Go ahead tell me.

I have seen JoanK and PatH. Did Maryal bring the puppies??

Wouldn't "The Talented Mr. Highsmith" by Patricia Highsmith make a good book discussion? I haven't read it yet. I have heard Ginny talk about it here. Now I am googling it. It does seem very interesting, maybe frightening in some way.

Hi Hats, we'll have to wait for Joan P to tell us what she meant. Joan K and I were actually discussing the three years she lived in Israel.

Maybe Joan P meant "dunginess," but I promise that wasn't the topic. Just look how serious I seem. That is my listening carefully look.

Good to see folks returning to the discussions.

And no, I didn't bring Kemper Elizabeth though she begged to go. Good thing I left her home as it turned out since there were adventures both nights where having a dog to look after would have gotten in the way.

Maryal

Hey, guys, Dungeness is the West Coast native crab and is preferred by many gourmets to your puny little East Coast crabs. Dungeness are big, 1.75 lbs and more. One per person makes a sumptious meal by the time you add in the sourdough and the butter. I like to eat them plain, just the sweet crab, the sour bread covered in butter. They can cost as much as $8/lb so it is not a cheap eat by any means. Yum, crab season is just starting again. Advertised at $4.99/lb special in the supermarkets.

Mrs. Sherlock--Thanks for the definition. I had NO idea.

Mrs. Sherlock, thank you. I thought it was some sort of international beer. I love crabs. Sounds good. These crabs are very expensive. No wonder I never heard of Dungeness.

Maryal, you do look serious.

What happened to Ginger's red hat? Maryal, what kind of adventures??? Is everything alright? If you can't answer, don't answer.

I just read about PatH. I am so sorry about the fall. Please take care PatH.

Thanks for the photos!.

Pat West- you are wearing my checkered shirt in one of the photos. Glad something of mine was along for the ride. What was the checkered blouses best adventure?

How many folks attended ? Tell us stay at homes some more about the meeting.

Judy

Joan P ~ Thanks for posting all those excellent pictures!

The meeting was educational and wonderful.
Technical sessions were quite informative; email me if you want to know more. I won't load up
this post with too much detailed information.

Surprise, surprise! Ginny's session was the highlight for me!
She gave a fabulous power-point presentation about the Latin classes.
There were so many questions from the audience that she could hardly give her talk. But Ginny was
not stopped by them, and kept up her very lively commentary, and answered them, too.

Interestingly enough, the one question that would be a surprise to all of you reading here, was from a SeniorNet Learning Center host, who could not understand how "boards" work in discussions.
All of us here in Books take this format for granted, don't we?

So, as Rabbit said to Pooh, all your friends and relations ....
ought to be shown how posting boards work so easily. Then they might join us here
in Books and Lit. and make our wonderful Bookie Family even larger.

What was the "books at the beach" comment? Was there one recently that MAM was at or are you talking about the one last year?.....jean

Joan,

Thanks for posting all of the pictures.

Kleo

I think I missed the post about Pat H having an accident. What happened?? Is she OK?

Yes, she is fine, Marnie. She tripped in the dark in a two inch rise in the sidewalk on the way back from the FDR Memorial. SHe reports that she saw her doctor today and all is well - except she will be "colorful" for a while.

Your welcome, Kleo. Those are just a fraction of the many photos taken - we'll open another site for all of them and bring a link here. We talked about you all = all weekend! Your ears should have been burning as we bragged about you!

Spent this morning, Monday with Amparo at the National Museum of Art - just enough time for her to see the Spanish collection and the special Constable exhibit. Left her in the Metro as she headed off to Arlington National Cemetery - fearless and independent. Delightful Amparo. Will try to scan some of the Don Quixote prints she brought us as presents from Spain.

Guess what I just remembered? The chunk of Manchego cheese in my refridgerator!!! What to do? We did have some at the Jaleo restaurant on Thurs. pm, but oh, I bought this for us all to share!

Ginger never took off that red hat until I took that photo of her - She must have packed it to head for home.

hahaha, Maryal, I know you don't go for seafood. I used "Dungeness" - my favorite crab - to smoke out what you were talking about so earnestly in the photo - and it worked!

Yes, the books at the beach was with MAM a while ago. But some of the people who came to Washington were there.

We're going to move the photos posted here to the new Gala photo discussion Marcie has just opened later today - new ones should be added as folks arrive home and unpack.

Before moving the photos, I want to share with you what was probably the most moving happening at the Gala - because you are ALL invited to be part of it in the very near future.

You may know that SeniorNet has just opened a much needed computer center on the Blackfeet Reservation in Browning Montana - and that SeniorNet's On-line Books and Lit (that's us) is just about ready to start a drive for books for the little ones on the reservation - at the Early Childhood Learning Center and the dorm for children at risk.

I counted six of the Blackfeet tribe at the Gala. You had to be moved as they recounted the hard life on the reservation - the contaminated water tourists and visitors are warned not to drink which is what the residents of the reservation must drink every day, as one example. Their gratitude to SeniorNet for opening the Learning Center was overwhelming.

We were fortunate to meet Georgia Rutherford, one of the Blackfeet tribe, who heads the Early Childhood Center, What an experience that was! She came prepared with a list of books for the little ones that she thinks would be most helpful and appropriate. She was overjoyed to meet us - as was SeniorNet's Jan Adkins, who is coaching the Learning Center volunteers in Browning.

Wait, it gets better! At the end of the gala, there was a raffle and the climax was the awarding of the major prize- a new-in-the-box laptop computer. We all watched as the little raffle ticket with the winning number was drawn from the box of hundreds of tickets - it was Georgia Rutherford - of the Early Childhood Learning Center! Not too many dry eyes as she went forward to receive her prize. How great was that!

I want to add to what I wrote over on the post-conference discussion: Our Joan is the hostess with the mostest. It was super how she made sure that many of us could enjoy the area as well as the conference. She picked people up at Dulles, got people to dinner on Thursday evening, even got her husband Bruce to help out as tour commentator (hire him!).... got some of us to church on Sunday, then got a bunch to the Mall and other monuments later on Sunday (and probably took some to the airport as well).

And you thought her contributions were all on Books!!!!!

Fran

I'm eager to see that list. I've been browsing children's books every time i'm in a book store and looking online for best children's books. It will be easy to pick up a book once or twice a month for this project. This moves me more than the prison book project but I will be working that into my giving. Is there a list for the prisoners? Seems like some of the children's books would be good for prisoners, too. I don't know the average mental age of prisoners so I may be stereotyping.

It's hard to beat the great service that Bruce and Joan Pearson provided. I came in at Dulles -- Joan says get your bag and just walk out the door. I did and looked around for 30 seconds and there she was just driving up.. WOW !!!

You're right Fran, Joan is easily the "Hostess with the Mostest".

I agree that Joan is the Hostess with the Mostest".

Thank you, JOAN P, for the reports from the Conference. Yes, we were there in spirit, and you have done us all proud! And thankyou to MARCIE for creating the special folder for the pictures.

It isn't hard to believe that JoanP would give so much help. I can feel her energy and kindness here on the posting boards.

I am so excited about the Blackfeet and the childrens books. Can hardly wait to see what they want.

That is very exciting!

Yes, and where/when will we see the book list for the Blackfeet children? I don't want to miss it.

Babi

Real soon, now, Babi. We had been waiting for lists and now we have them. Stay tuned...

I think the initiative for the Blackfeet Children is wonderful. I wish I could send books but the cost of the exchange rate and the postage makes it impossible for me. Maybe if any of the books are on a big special at Barnes and Noble I could purchase as a gift and send one to Ginny or someone to distribute.

Carolyn

You can order the books sent directly from Barnes & Noble on line here in SeniorNet and pay only the postage from here to the reservation. Generally, you get free postage if you order at least three books!

Actually, though, I haven't a clue what is to be done about that exchange rate!

I'm leaving tomorrow to visit my grandchildren, and would like to get them involved in this project. Do they want books for children their ages (7, 5, and 3)? Do they want second hand books -- my gc have many books in good condition that they may have read or outgrown?

JoanK, how wonderful to include your grandchildren in this project. We will be serving two groups of children (Early Childhood Center- ages 0-5 and the Blackfeet Boarding Dorm--ages 6-18), so your grandchildren's ages fit. The books don't have to be new but we ask that, if used, they be in excellent condition (not a lot of wear on the spine and no writing in the book).

I am looking for the list of recommended books right now.

Oh good, I have a granddaughter and grandson 5 and 11. I suspect this would make this years charity involvement for them. I usually involve them with me in Samaritans Purse which they enjoy, but the opportunity to help in the US should be fun for them.

I miss the Blue Wizard's contests. When is he coming out of his cave? I tried to leave a message at his cave. A block to post in didn't show. So, I came to the Book Nook to leave a message for Your Majesty, the Blue Wizard.

Halloween is the b eginning of the new contest with Wizzie. I will be gone until the 7th, but will join it then..

Good. We need your brain Stephanie. I hope you feel lucky. I think The Wiz is going to pull out all the stops this time.

I think my chances of ever beating the Wiz are zero. The clues are so ingenious I don't think I'd recognize a book I'd read 10 times, but would have to admit they are fair. I enjoy trying, though.

I feel the same way. I could never beat the Wiz. It's a fun game. That's what I like.

I'm feeling a bit like a rather stupid person here. I read constantly but don't seem to be reading the type books being discussed. I read only for enjoyment, and have learned recently that I can only enjoy books have 'happy-endings'. For instance, guess you people don't bother with the likes of Nora Roberts..but I sure do. I also like John LesCroat(sp), Lee Child, Jack Higgins, and many more of that ilk, Sure would like to find someone who enjoys the kinds of books I read to talk to. Oh well, guess I'm just not the type for this site. Sorry!

I'll bet there are people here who share your preferences. Don't forget that you can nominate books to be read...and you might be surprised at the responses you'll get.

Fran

I read all sorts but admit lately with all the sadness in the world and all the tragedy I have been looking for lighter reads. Lots of us may have one serious book on hand with a lighter one to pick up and read before bed. I generally read two books at once - one serious and one light.

Carolyn

Sugarcat: Many of the authors you mention are talked about in the Mystery discussion. I just found out about Lee Child and am looking forward to reading more of him. Drop by Mystery. We will be happy to have you join us.

I just want to say I have had the impression that some of our Snetters may think Books is only for academics! Its not! You can nominate a discussion and perhaps its time to make known generally that any one can come in here no matter what genre they like to read. I am no academic yet I have joined in many discussions. Learned heaps too! Please don't be afraid to join in, the more bookies the better!

Carolyn

Sugarcat. I'm glad you found your way here. Here is a link to our Mystery books discussion: Mystery Corner

I've got to agree with Sugarcat when looking at our offerings for October. A Fine Balance is not one of those happy ever after endings - or is it. October offerings look pretty "heavy" or serious, don't they.

As others have told you, Sugarcat, we have a number of General genre discussions - from which titles for individual discussion often come. Marcie has provided the link for Mystery. You might also be interested in Fiction - Old, New and Best Sellers. I do hope you give these two discussions a chance before concluding this is not the place for you. We hope it is!!! And if not, make it so!

We read all kinds of books in Books and Literature. I too like Nora Roberts, she's sometimes tho't of as a "romance" writer or a "mystery" writer, as well as just plain "fiction" writer. Check out those sites and mention her and i'm sure you'll get some response. I also like the "Miss Julie......." series, they've been mentioned here before, have you tried those, the author's name is Ross. Elizabeth Berg was mentioined recently on one of the book sites - i've given up trying to remember what is talked about where....LOL.....just keep looking, I'm sure you'll find some of your favorite authors discussed somewhere in Books and Lit.....jean

Blackfeet Tribe Achievement Center
Browning, Montana.

Sugarcat, We have had a Romance discussion here and I like it very much so we did it before and we can do it again. I like Debbie Macomber myself and read her books. I do hope you come back.

Ginger

We still have a Romance discussion--led by Marjorie. You can find it in the Books Index or hopefully here: http://tinyurl.com/ykt374

I've forgotten how to change it the other way. In this discussion, people don't discuss one book for a month or so, but make recommendations of recently read books they've enjoyed. Nora Roberts is often mentioned.

Mary Alice Monroe, who came to Bookies at the Beach, was first known in the Romance discussion. Sue

Sue I loved the Mary Alice Monroe books, just loved them and it was just great to meet her with the bookies when we visited the Island of Palms in Carolina used the 06 calendar all year it is beautiful and brings back fond memories. I think Marjorie would start the romace decussion again if enough wanted it.

So Sugarcat we will do are best but it will take a wee bit of time be patient and you may get your wish.

Ginger

SUGARCAT: We have a Fiction Archives that has many of our old discussions you could read to see how different they are. These archived discussions are Read Only but you can get some idea of what we offer.

Specifically, there is a discussion of The Beach House by Mary Alice Monroe and another of Jewels of the Sun by Nora Roberts

I must comment. Lee Child attends church in Oklahoma City the same one my sister goes. She says he is a dear young fellow, good to his parents etc. He does write well also as does Debbie Macomber. I read them all. Try Curtis Ann Matlock, I think you will love her as well.

I think many of the bookies read quite a wide variety of authors on many subject. Generally we have some fun discussions going on, but just now we seem to be working on heavy. I suspect it is not that easy to get someone to lead the discussions.. Our House discussions may be light or complicated. We have nominated a nice variety of books in that category, just have not gotten around to picking one.. Busy summer.

In fact, I was just about to go over there with a proposal. I'm in the middle of it and finding it very entertaining.

CASTLE RACKRENT, by Mary Edgeworth.

It's a fine Irish tale, written 200 years ago, about the successive owners of this old property. Filled with humor and honest description of a part of Irish society. Told by an elderly servant. It's only 70 pages. It's online. It could make a fine December read.

How about THE OUTERMOST HOUSE, by Henry Beston? Anyone care to talk about living yearound in a little house behing a sand dune on Cape Cod?

And then there is BRIDESHEAD REVISITED, very upscale. Makes RACKRENT look like a dump.

Don't go away Sugarcat.

And of course, Orhan Pamuk's SNOW, in the New Year.

PAT, is Browning, Montana all the address needed to send books to the Blackfeet Tribe Achievement Center? I piked up three books off the sales table at the library, for beginning readers, and came looking for a mailing address.

Babi

Not yet, Babi...but very soon. They aren't quite ready for us - nor we for them - both ends still ironing out some of the details. We'll open a site similar to the Prison Library Project to keep track of the titles that have been sent along. You'll know something very soon.

They have provided lists of appropriate books for the two centers.

Thanks!

"What is memorable about Castle Rackrent is an atmosphere" which consists of "whiskey, decay, rot, guttering candles, tobacco, damp, horse dung, and dust. . . . [I]t is an amalgam of improvidence, stupidity, cupidity, pride, subservience, animosity, sentimentality, brutality, and perversity" (154-55). James Newcomer's MARY EDGEWORTH THE NOVELIST.

That's ridiculous. That's not my impression at all. And I'm sure Mary Edgeworth would be shocked to read that. Just the same, I withdraw the proposal to discuss the book. Actually, it struck me as romantic. Well alright, gothically romantic, or romantically gothic. But definitely no blarney.

I will be off and on for the next 10 days since we are off in the motorcoach to celebrate my husbands release from radiation treatment, but will try to at least peer in from time to time. Wifi is fun, but sometimes frustrating to use. My road runner restricts a lot of stuff when I am out of house.

Jonathan, it sounds to ME as if that's a perfect book to discuss! Who cares what somebody else wrote about it? If it's possible to have that sharp a range of division in opinion then I say let's discuss it and see what WE think, that's why WE're here.

I would like to see that one nominated and discussed in December.

De gustibus!

We're back from SeniorNet's 20th Anniversary Conference, where Joan Pearson and Pat Westerdale represented our Books with great success. I think their presence and obvious integrity and enthusiasm went a long way toward letting people not familiar with the Online know we are actually doing something of worth here. Pedln also represented the Classics Project splendidly as well, so we're well represented and off to our next 10 years.

The Blackfeet Children's Book Project (thank you all so much for your enthusiasm) is truly a worthy project and worthy of getting grandchildren involved. We're scrambling to get up a discussion for it. Georgia Rutherford, the representative told Pearson, Marcie and me that they have nothing. Literally. They have to drive 125 miles one way to even get to a store. There are two dormitories of children. Georgia IS going to read to them and they are so grateful for anything at all, so stay tuned for more particulars, it's a very very good thing.

Sugarcat, we have many forums here, including one for Fiction where most of the people there do like the very same books you mention, one for Mystery, one for Romance, etc. We are actually about anything anybody would like to read. THIS particular area is a general Book area where we talk about anything.

I hope you will make yourself at home in an area of your particular interest, welcome! If you don't see an area you'd like to talk in, suggest one, we're listening.

STephanie I am so glad your husband is free of the radiation treatment and hope that it's smooth sailing for him from now on.

Yes, I hear the Wiz has a particularly tough one this time hahahaa what would Halloween be without that old Spook the Book Wizard (I trust he's not watching) hahaaa

If you're new to the Books area, the Book Wizard offers a contest where you have to guess the title and author from clues if you can call them that which he presents. The contestants get 7 weeks to guess, if they win and beat the Wiz, a nice prize is awarded, if they lose, he wins and that's not good as he never shuts up about it, so try your hand if you think you know books!

From the heading here:

Scroll down the main Books Menu page, http://www.seniornet.org/books, to see a our offerings and join in anything that looks to be of interest to you and/or click on the chart of Current, Coming and Proposed Individual Book Discussions.

Look HERE to find Mystery, Romance and General Fiction and Non Fiction as well as games: http://www.seniornet.org/books.

Subscribe to the Book Bytes to find out what's happening or coming up in Books. Email Patwest mailto:patwest1@gmail.com for details.

Pull up a chair and join in, tell us what you're reading and how/if you like it.

I'm so glad that you heard,Ginny, that our lovable Blue Wiz is getting ready for a new Quiz. Never shuts up about it ... eeehhh? Would he go off and join the pirates if he lost?

Mippy, Good question

Ginny, I wanted to say thank you for representing the "Classics" at the conference. For me, this is a whole new and exciting realm. It just adds to the books. I love writing the words "The Books and Classics program at Seniornet." Thank you again for being Ginny.

Bless your heart, Hats, thank you! Right back AT you too.

Readers are the best!

I haven't had any time recently to do any joyful reading, and Ripley in the Boy Who Followed Ripley which I'm almost through, (she really broke down in this one), certainly doesn't qualify as happy uplifting reading, so I'm starting to look around seriouisly for something new, but I know YOU all are reading something you can't put down in this lovely fall weather!!!

What's 'gnu? Isn't it awful, that gap between books? You come off just a super book, you were, for a while, THERE, and hooked. Call it what you will, escapism, whatever, it's fun. And then it's over!! So some of us run out and try to read everything that author has written in order to keep it going.

Jonathan mentioned Gothic. I once went thru a Gothic kick to end all kicks, could NOT read enough of them, it's funny: sometimes you feel like one kind of book and sometimes you don't.

I'm kind of shocked at how few of the bestsellers from this morning's New York Times list I have NOT read. The hardbacks, particularly!

I have not read ANY of the non fiction hardbacks and although I am doing better on the non fiction paperbacks, I wish I hadn't read a couple of them, starting with Running with Scissors.

Also (I could not paste those lists here for some reason), but has it occured to you what BIZARRE plots in both non fiction and fiction we're seeing all of a sudden? And the memoirs, and fictionalized memoirs, all bizarre. I mean, LOOK at them!

There is no family more bizarre than that in Running With Scissors. Burroughs writes beautifully but the FAMILY! And look at the other plots, strange bizarre things. Each one as you read the synopsis looks more and more strange. Look at the plot of Glass Castle: "The author recalls a bizarre childhood during which she and her siblings were constantly moved from one bleak place to another."

Hello? JUST what I want to read, how about you? I think the memoir as a genre is totally overrated.

Why is it that we have these strange books appearing? Has it always been that way and I never noticed? Is it the writing? Is the writing so bad now that we need these fantastic plots and memories to carry the book?

I wonder if we have reached the point, in 2006, where we need strange eerie things, the more outrageous, the better, almost like sci fi to sell a book? Or are we as a society so changed (or have always been this way) that these books are showing only the tip of the iceberg. I mean LOOK at the plots!! Just read down the lists.

I saw Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil on TV again the other day and that reminds me Berendt has another book out, about Venice. When it came out it made quite a stir, but have any of you read it? And if so, how is it?

What, on that list, can you recommend? I bought Fast Food Nation but have not gotten into it yet, they do say you'll never eat at another fast food place if you buy it.

Oh but look, Bill Bryson's got a new one out, has anybody read IT?

I tell you what, the BB Syndrome (Between Books) has hit hard here, I'm glad to have this place to come and hear about something you all are reading you're enjoying! And WHY!

I am reading "What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam" by John L. Esposito, "The Dream Palace Of The Arabs" by Fouad Ajami"........these two selections are to give me a better understanding of the Middle East and Islam as seems I was and am woefully lacking in that area.........Then while waiting on my library "holds" I am reading "Your Oasis on Flame Lake" by Lorna Landvik" for something light and funny.........I had read her other books but somehow missed this one.......It was mentioned in the old and new fiction folder...........Hi Hats you early bird you.......get your picture up here so we can all see you too!

I finished "The Salaryman's Wife" by Sujata Massey. She writes mysteries. The main character begin by teaching English in Japan. Then, in her later books, she will become more involved with selling and trading antiques. She is a Art History major. This gives her a good background and a strong interest in her new profession. I am anxious to read the other books in the series.

The next book, I think, in the series is "The Flower Master." This will involve flower arranging. I also have been trying to finish the Walter Mosley mystery series. These do have some cursing. Still, Walter Mosley's mysteries are great. I'm not finish the whole series.

Before the year is out I am going to start Sue Grafton's letter series. I have the first three now: A for Alibi, B for Burglar, C for Corpse. Have any of you finish this whole series???

Tigerlily or Mrs. Sherlock, did you suggest "The Tortilla Curtain" by T. Coraghessan Boyle?? I picked it up from the library yesterday.

Yes Hats I did......it was the selection for the "ONe Read" program at our library this summer.......you will like it I would bet........

Ginny, I have almost finished "For One More Day" by Mitch Albom. This is the first book I have read by him. Well, enough from me.

I'm reading Ahab's Wife. Just finished Lois McMasters Bujold's The Sharing Knife (fantasy). Part way through Blood Payment by Elizabeth George. I've reserved The Shakespeare Wars (Ron Rosenbaum); if I like it I'll buy it for my Shakespeare project - reading each play and some relevant commentary. Also on my shelf are: Elizabeth Berg, Dorothea Benton Frank, Charlaine Harris. Same ol, same ol.

Alexander Poe's novella "The Purloined Letter" will begin Wednesday, November 1st.

You can read the story on line if you wish by clicking the link below.

The Purloined letter

The graphic is Poe. Not me.

Bill H

What am I reading? I'm never, ever between books!

Speaking of a best seller, a mega-best seller:
Bob Woodward's latest, State of Denial is hard going for me.
It's too bad that our government is run so badly, but I won't discuss politics here, in Books.
I must finish it to talk it over with my husband, who loved it; I have several hundred pages to go.

For light reading, I'm again into Middlemarch by Eliot, as I had to skip and jump to keep up with Great Books last year, when I missed a whole month of posting due to hurricane internet outage in South Florida. The good
news is it is sunny and safe in FL right now, this year.

For serious reading, I'm still slowing working through Cicero by Everitt. It is the best book I've read on ancient Rome, for any of you either taking Latin or thinking of taking Latin next year.

I am reading Drabble. The Witch of Exmoore. Lots of philosophising. Its a book to pick up and put down. Not many people would read it continuously I don't think.

Carolyn

I just read No, I Don't Want To Join A Bookclub by Virginia Ironside. It's a British diary of turning sixty, and hilarious in that wonderful self deprecating Brit way. Loved it.

"Certainly not!" said Marie Sharp, when a friend suggests she join a bookclub when she turns sixty.

"Bookclub people always seem to have to wade through Captain Corelli's Mandolin or, groan, The God of Small Things. They feel they've forever got to poke their brain with a pointed stick to keep it working. But either you've got a lively brain or you haven't. And anyway, I don't want to be young and stimulated any more. Those oldies who spend their lives bicycling across Mongolia at eighty and para-gliding at ninety, aren't brilliant specimens of old age. No, they're just tragic failures who haven't come to terms with ageing. I want to start doing old things, not young things"

We all have our favourite bits to quote. I have to say I could relate to putting her Health Care Card in the ATM because I did the same once with a Medicare Card. The ATM had hysterics!

Jan - I think I would like to read that book! I am thinking of writing a book called "How to grow old naturally- without HRT, Botox or cosmetic surgery" (just kidding!) However I do think the world has gone overboard and every second person is fighting the natural effects of aging. They are spending so much time on this they are missing out on real life.

Carolyn

I've heard of that one! Maybe we ought to discuss it, but look at all the great suggestions and reads here already today.

I don't know, I figure there's time to stop learning when you're 6 feet under, so, as the motto of SC says, "Dum spiro, spero," while I breathe I hope.

I don't want to be young and stimulated any more. Those oldies who spend their lives bicycling across Mongolia at eighty and para-gliding at ninety, aren't brilliant specimens of old age. No, they're just tragic failures who haven't come to terms with ageing.

Tragic failures? Jeez sounds like the green monster to me has reared his hoary head. Let those who want to paraglide at 90 do so without dissing them and saying it's much better to vegetate and rot away, it's more natural, sounds to me like the woman needs vitamins, what's SHE doing? (Besides writing a BOOK? Which is a LOT of WORK?)

Sitting staring at? What? the TV?

I do hate a reverse snob.

Let's discuss that buzzard?? There's no telling WHAT it might bring out?

Is it in hardback or paperback?

I assure you Ginny I NEVER watch TV! I am too busy cooking or spending time with my grands, gardening or writing and when I am not doing that I am out and about with my camera.

YOU didn't write the book, Carolyn and it doesn't sound like you, either, let's read it and find out!

I'm not talking about YOU, I'm talking about the woman who called somebody who paraglides at 90 a "tragic failure." That does not sound like kiwilady to me.

To me, Botox is a paradigm for what is wrong with our society. You are using artificial means to create a superficially smooth, trouble-free conventially attractive surface, while at the same time making it impossible to express any real emotion (Botox relaxes the muscles, thus making them inexpressive). No guts, no thought of facing up to reality, which is sometimes terrible, but more beautiful and complex than anything artificial. The most beautiful woman I have known was 80 years old (at the end of our acquaintance), her face full of wrinkles. But you couldn't look at her without seeing the end result of a lifetime of courage, kindness, and quality. She had earned her beautiful face.

I like looking my age, and pounding on counters with my cane. And limping a little to get a wheelchair in the airport. I like to do my walking in the great outdoors.

I had some botox injections in my neck to stop muscle pain and spasms. It was the weirdest thing. I felt like I had to struggle to hold my head up for 2 months. Botox paralyzes the muscles. It must feel very strange to have injections for beauty.

I don't think you're meant to take the book too seriously, after all it's fiction not autobiographical. It's described as grumpy old women meet Bridget Jones, and weren't Grumpy Old Men and Grumpy Old Women hilarious shows?

In fact I'd love to join a Bookclub, problem is I live in regional Australia, and can't afford the books. I usually can't discuss current books here either, because my Library is a tad behind, and by the time I've read something it's old History in this Folder.

I disagreed with lots of things Marie Sharp(heroine) espoused, but it was just so funny, I kept bursting out laughing. There was pathos too, because age brings sadness and loss. I'm sure though, that everyone could find something to laugh about with the character Marie, and say "yes!!!".

PS: Carolyn, you'd enjoy it! I have to say that I cringe during Senior's Week when I see people over 50 turning themselves inside out to be young and peppy. they just look sad to me. What's wrong with being sixty?

My sister and I were laughing about our memories and made a pact to be more on the ball, no more forgetting, no more embarassing slipups. Then she drove home, and I got a very worried phone call. Do you have my bag? Of course!

Jan - You would not believe the senior moments Ruth and I have had! We could write a book about it too! The funniest one was when Ruth forgot to fill her gas tank when she was rushing to work one morning. She hitched a ride to the gas station but had to walk back to her car which was in the breakdown lane on the Motorway. On the way back to the car she decided to take a short cut but ended up at a rather high wire mesh fence. She could not get a foot hold to climb up it and it was too high to lift her legs over, So she lay on the mesh and then slithered over the top. She had a skirt on too. She said when her arms hit the ground her skirt was round her waist and she had to keep slithering. Imagine how many cars saw her knickers on the North Western Motorway city bound at rush hour! When she got home and told me we both laughed until we cried. We still laugh about it.

Carolyn

Perhaps, we'll see it on Motorway Patrol one night? We have so much fun laughing about our gaffes. The bad part is keeping these things from the kids, who seem to lose all their sense of humour when their parents make silly mistakes. They seem to feel they're our mind police. My sisters daughter is 46 and just starting to have mind problems. I say, come and join us on the dark side, Wendy.

I would rather read, if my opinion counts, the book mentioned by Carolyn, "The Witch of Exmoor" by Margaret Drabble. I have the feeling her book would wake up my mind and make me think. Each word and sentence, I think, would have heavy undertones of meaning. Carolyn, is that what it's like reading her book? I think any book by Margaret Drabble would leave a deep impression on our minds. I will admit to never reading any of her books. I missed reading "The Seven Sisters" here at Seniornet. I was afraid the book would leave me in the dark. I have read the synopsis of "The Peppered Moth." Boy, that one sounds interesting too.

I saw Elizabeth Dole on t.v. this week-end and all ways thought of her as very attractive........I think she may have had one too many botox injections!

I didn't recognize her at first. She looked so different. I didn't think of botox injections.

MRS. SHERLOCK, I recently discovered Bujold and am thoroughly enjoying every one of her books I can get my hands on. She is an excellent writer, with some very unusual characters.

JAN, how true! My younger daughter lives with me, so I can't hide all my boners from her. I did make her promise not the tell her sibs about my latest, tho. I came home from running errands, was distracted by the sight of a sack of telephone books waiting in the driveway, not to mention having several things to take with me from the car. All of which is my excuse for forgetting to turn off the car motor. I gathered up everything and went in the house, leaving the keys in the car and the motor running....for hours! groan

Babi

kiwi lady, I laughed at your poor sisters problem and thought of mrs Bucket on BBC. It had to be embarassing at the time for her tho.

Wendy, Dark side,

Yikes Babi, It could have been stolen, your lucky girl.

Ginger

Oh, BaBi! That's a tough one - leaving your car running! My friend did that. Not only did she leave her car running with the keys inside, but she locked the car! Someone notified her about the car, but she couldn't get back in to get keys and turn off the engine. She had to call AAA and have them break into the car. The police won't break into cars any more.

I just got the Book "Snow" from inter library loan all the way from Ft. Smith. My library didn`t have it but are very nice getting whatever you desire from other libraries. Now must find time to read it in time to enter your discussion. Roseda

I used to have a car that was easy to lock with the motor running. Once I did it in a garage where I was leaving it to be serviced. Even with the proper tools, it took them 10 minutes to break in. After that, I started carrying an extra key in my purse.

Hi Roseda - I just picked up Snow from the library today and poked my nose into it this evening - looks like a good read - 400 plus pages.

Jan - Whereabouts in 'regional Australia' are you? I live in Perth...

My mum locked her keys in the car once at a local shopping centre. She WOULD not tell my stepfather so she phoned my BIL to come down and get into the car for her with a coat hanger ( bent into a hook). To top it all when my BIL got there the engine was also running.She has locked her keys in the car at the stores several times. We think its because she is one of those people who is addicted to buying clothes. ( I mean addicted!) and she was so intent on getting to a clothing sale all else was wiped from her mind.

Carolyn

According to Celtic legend... A blacksmith named Jack traded his soul to the devil in return for being the master of his trade for seven years. Jack went around bragging about his new skill, which prompted Saint Peter and Jesus to pay him a visit to try to convince him to be more humble.

St. Peter offered him three wishes, hoping he would use one of them to wish for eternal happiness in heaven. Instead, Jack's first wish was that if someone climbed his pear tree, the person would have to stay there until Jack allowed him to come down. His other two wishes were similar (regarding an armchair and his purse, both of which would trap a person until Jack let him go).

When the devil came after his soul, Jack used these wishes against him. The trickery worked, and the devil fled, leaving Jack's soul intact. But when Jack died, Saint Peter refused to let him into heaven because his wishes had been so foolish. The devil wouldn't let him into hell either.

As the devil was closing the gates of hell, Jack scooped up some burning coals in a turnip he'd been eating. He uses the glowing turnip as a lantern to light his way as he wanders around, searching for a place to rest his soul.

And so, the quintessential symbol of Halloween, the jack o'lantern, was originally made out of a turnip, a common Old World vegetable. When the tradition arrived in America, turnips became pumpkins. Voila! The modern-day jack o'lantern.

Happy Halloween -

Oh Barbara, what a surprise ending. I was wondering where that story was going to go. Bravo. Many thanks.

Roseda, your post gets me excited at the prospect of talking about Orhan Pamuk's book. I wonder what you will think of it.

There was enthusiastic response when I proposed it for discussion several weeks ago. Very gratifying. This author has a unique storytelling talent. And his touching concern for the health of his homeland is compelling.

Take your time reading the book. I had mid-January in mind for scheduling the disussion. How would that suit you? That would give others the time to consider participating. I'll see about getting a formal 'Proposed for Disussion' on the board sometime soon.

BaBi, I haven't left my car running, but I have locked myself out a few times. Thank heavens for the nice RACQ man. Carolyn, why isn't your Mum a member? Nobody has to know, if you call them.

I've read Seven Sisters, the book and the discussion here, and I still have a lot of "whys", perhaps she meant it to be like that.

Gumtree, I live in Rockhampton, in Queensland, right on the Tropic of Capricorn. This city is known for beef not books, but there are a large number of unemployed people here and the Council, to be fair, doesn't have the money to indulge in books. They do their best. I know booklovers are out there, but those people can generally afford to buy their own.

I wouldn't talk to my neighbours in the same way I would here, I'd get some very funny looks. They're nice fun people, but the next door lady doesn't even read magazines. The lady across the road, said, I read a book once, she was in her 40's. I asked her what it was(what book deserved this honour) expecting something like a To Kill A Mockingbird revelation. She said The Life Of Elvis

.

It's been a Godsend to turn on the computer every day, and come to Seniornet and see people talking about books etc. as an ordinary everyday part of life. I mostly listen, and think, but I'm always here, getting my fix.

Hats I believe you have to read Drabble in small amounts. Her writing is pretty intense and lots of stuff to take in all at once. Better to buy her books rather than borrow and then you can read them at leisure.

Carolyn

Tonight on Public TV is a program about the history of Yellow Fever. My newspaper said it was on at 9:00 p.m. EST and I put a reminder out for myself. But I just noticed that the time has changed to 10:00 p.m. EST on my online TV Guide. It says that a history of influenza is on at 9:00. So, the yellow fever history is on at either 9:00 or 10:00 p.m. EST.

I was glad to see about tonight's program because the discussion about The Mutiny on Board HMS Bounty by William Bligh begins on Wednesday. Yay!!

Yellow Fever was one of the diseases that killed large numbers of the British Navy as they ventured out more around the world. Malaria was another of the endemic diseases they encountered that killed so many ships' crew and soldiers and explorers.

This also reminds me of the David McCullough book The Passage Between the Seas about the building of the Panama Canal. Such an interesting book!!!

Marni

Jan It seems we could scarcely be further apart and still be on the same continent. You could say we just live diagonally across from one another - across the continent that is...I've not been to Qld - I'd die in the tropics, too much humidity for me. Perth's good - hot but dry - very dry at present. I was born here so it's home.

Sorry to know your library system is so underfunded. Libraries in WA are excellent. I have direct access and free borrowing at 3 Council libraries within about 15 kms. and the same rights to one in the city and the State Ref. Lib. comes in handy sometimes - We also use the University but that is not available to general public - so we can get almost anything very easily and if it's not on the shelves they get it in very quickly. Regional centres here are not so fortunate but nonetheless have the same access to the stock - it just takes longer.

This great wealth of resources came about through the foresight of a couple of men (each half a century apart) whose main argument for funding was that Perth is the most isolated capital on the globe. Personally I think our library system would be the best in Aust and would compare favourably anywhere. Despite all this, we still buy far too many books and I know folk who still don't use the system - well, they're nice people but they don't read much.

I'm surprised you haven't found a F2F bookclub nearby. Maybe your library or local learning centre could put you in touch with one locally?

Do you get ABC TV in Rocky? If so, do you watch the 1st Tuesday Book Club? It screens here at 10pm on the first Tues. I enjoy it - they usually have a good panel, discuss pros and cons of 2 books and you can go online afterwards to add your own tuppenceworth. Next one up is Snow by Orhan Pamuk which happily I picked up yesterday (guess where - )

Suddenly this post is far too long....

Jan what a beautiful post, and concluding thought. That's the reason we are here and it appears we have an entire CONTINGENT from Australia and New Zealand here now! We'll have to schedule in the new year, a book currently IN your libraries and have some international dialogue! We've done that twice before with great success.

All of a sudden lots of exciting things coming up for the new year, watch for them here, lots of bubbling excitement. Some great authors, too. a surprise in your stocking for December!! Stay tuned for more details and a Drabble, too, Hats, in the new year! The Lady of Shallot will remain in her tower until February (but did she put herself there, that's the question, the real burning question). And it looks like Jonathan is getting Snow ready for January, please send some here, I love snow.

I never will forget that book we read about that woman on camelback thru the entire country of Australia, do any of you remember it? Boy was she independent, loved it. That's kind of how I think of Australian women, actually, independent and strong.

One of my favorite movies of all time is one you can't get now, made for American TV starring Linda Lavin and Lane Smith about a woman whose husband's dream was to move to Australia and have a sheep farm, so he bought the farm and she and the...umpteen kids moved out ahead while he concluded his business to join them, there and by cracky, he never came. Always had an excuse, but she persevered and she succeeded. He came once with lots of suggestions as to how she should do this and that. It was a true story, the end of the movie shows what happened to them all, she became a nun. I sure would like to see that one again, it was called A Place to Call Home.

I would like to know what happened to all the family too, in 2006.

Michael Apted, he of the 7-14-21 series has a new one out, 48+ and a book on it too. It's a landmark documentary study of British school children at all ages of life and how their educations, which were quite different, have affected them in adulthood. It's fascinating.

Marni your Bligh looks wonderful and I can't help thinking of the Pirates of the Caribbean in connection with it, Bligh's story of how he fared, set adrift in a lifeboat, in his own words, is better than any movie anybody could ever see, and as strange as any Halloween evening, which it is tonight. Yet when you think of Bligh all you see is Fletcher Christian.

Happy Halloween, we have not had a Trick or Treater in 26 years, do you have them now or is that passe? A strange custom, is it practiced in Australia? Or for the others of you here, what is it like where you live?

Remember Michief Night? Remember when everybody knew each child at the door? We used to, in the small PA town I grew up in, have to come IN to the houses while the elderly ladies guessed who we were? Not today, I betcha!

In this small town, it was the custom for contests to be held on store windows, paintings of Halloween scenes would be done (I wonder with what sort of medium) and then the best window would receive a prize, it was amazing what you'd see, and very festive, is THAT done anywhere now?

Remember sitting around a flashlight "fire" and telling ghost stories and passing around "here are his eyes," grapes, etc? The Romans started telling ghost stories after dinner, 2000 years ago, sort of innocent sounding fun now.

Happy Halloween! What's the SPOOKIEST book (in terms of being the absolute worst or most disappointing) you've read recently?

We always talk about books we like. This, being Halloween, let's talk about one we didn't care for and why?

KiwiLady, thank you. Ginny, I feel there are a lot of good surprises in store for us. Have you chosen a Drabble book for us yet??? Welcome to all the Australians and New Zealanders. Marni, I missed the program about Yellow Fever and/or Influenza. I wanted to see it. I didn't see your message in time.

KiwiLady, I saw the most beautiful red flower on tv this week. I can't remember which program. The flower grows in New Zealand. I can't remember the name of it.

"Rebecca" by DuMaurier is chilling, I think. I love the book. It's just a little bit creepy.

MARNI, I at least do not get locked out of my car. Like PAT, I keep a spare set of keys in the bottom of my purse for just such contingencies. So, if I can manage not to lock my car with my purse inside, I'm safe from that problem.

BARBARA, Thanks, I'd never heard that Celtic story before. Actually, I thought locksmith Jack was very resourceful. He was able to outsmart the Devil!

Babi

Hats........I am starting a book titled "The Southerners" and you immediately come to my mind.......It is non-fiction and is not new.written in the 80's by a journalist named Fraley, who is also a southerner.......probably going to be essays on well known people.....I will let you know if it is as good as I think it is going to be after reading the introduction which is pretty lengthy......that's something I love about southerners......they love to talk!!!!!!!!!!!........lol.........

Tigerlily I will look forward to hearing what you have to say about the book.

BaBi: I used to have one of those metal magnetic key boxes for storing a spare key under the car in case of emergencies, but it's gone. Last year I locked myself out of my Jeep Wrangler (with its winter top on.) I had taken a friend shopping and there we were stuck far from home with the key locked in the Jeep. Luckily, I had my cell phone and called AAA. They came right away, but had huge trouble breaking into my Jeep. (I guess that's good.) It took nearly 1/2 hour for them to break in and they actually broke my window down inside the door. I had to spend 100's of dollars later to get the window fixed.

I think of Stephen King books at this time of year. I still have my collection - have to get rid of it to make more room. Anybody read his book "It"? That was a creepy one!

is a biographical novel about the painter Camille Pissarro who started the Impressionist Movement in Paris in the middle of the 19th century. We read about other artists such as Renoir, Monet and Degas who, in spite of decades of rejection by the public and the press for their futuristic genre, will later become the most prestigious painters of their time. We will feel the emotion, the frustration, the love, the success that seems to plague a genius each step of the way to recognition.

If you are interested in discussing art and artists, this book is one of the best of its genre I have ever read and if you like Impressionists paintings and the 'Belle Époque' era it is an enchantment. It takes place in mid 19th Century France.

Eloise, Have you read The Agony and the Ecstasy, the Biographical Novel of Michelangelo by Irving Stone?

marni--I noticed that you mentioned Stephen King. He has a new novel out, Lisey's Story, that apparently is a real novel. He has some of his creepy stuff in it, but there's a lot more. I should have read the Washington Post article instead of skimming it. Anyway, apparently, there is more of the thoughtful writer who wrote his book on writing in this novel.

Go Here to read the review. Especially the second paragraph.

Hi Everyone, Eloise and I will be leading a discussion in Depths of Glory by Irving Stone beginning on December 1. This one deals with the life of Camille Pissarro. We are really looking forward to discussing Pissarro and Impressionism.

Hope all of you will join us in that discussion.

Bubble, I have read The Agony and Ecstasy by Irving Stone. I read it a long time ago.

Depths of Glory is not a new book. It is available in paperback and as used book on the Web. It will be a very inexpensive book. Maybe many of you can get it at your Library.

Joan Grimes

I misled Joan about the title, it is Depths of Glory, not The D..... sorry about that.

Bubble since I read The Agony and the Ecstacy I have enjoyed learning about the life of great artists more than if I had read a straight biography about them. Women and romance in a historical or biographical novel adds life to the narration, it includes the female perspective instead of ignoring it like historians and biographers so often do. I guess it is ignored because historians or biographers are mostly men. Oh! ignore that.

Gumtree, You haven't lived till you've summered in the Tropics! There are F2F Bookclubs here but books are so expensive, and little things like Rates and power bills get in the way. Yes we have ABC(doesn't everyone? In the Outback it used to be the only station we could pick up). Jennifer Byrne is a great host.

Ginny, I've seen that Movie twice. I didn't know she became a nun. Wow. It must have taken awhile to get all those kids grownup and independent. I can really empathise with their joy when it finally rained. I seem to have spent half my life waiting for rain.

We don't have Halloween here, well the odd person tries to get it going some years, but it's never been our thing. Our minds are on The Melbourne Cup

.

I just finished The Firm which I think Ginny? read. It certainly made me see the whole Charles, Diana thing, in a different light. I admit to having been very biased before I read it.. There's a series on TV now that I'm enjoying so much, called The Secret Lives Of Palaces.It shows the work that goes into maintaing all the Royal Houses(so many!). The staff have to balance the need to earn money for maintenance and repairs, with the necessity to bear the damage caused by the cash bearing visitors. I did see a display of authentic cooking at Hampton Court? The Cook stood on a chair and poured his chocolate mousse into a bowl on the floor to aerate it. No electric beaters allowed!

Jan:- Believe me, I simply WOULD NOT LIVE if I summered in the tropics -glad you get the Tuesday show.

I don't recall the movie Ginny mentioned but I do somehow remember one of the film stars - was it Anne Baxter perhaps or Shirley Maclaine - who married an Aussie and went to live on his property in western NSW - it didn't last long - the last straw came when the lady tried the local general store for some Tarragon - they didn't have any - Surprise! Surprise!

Halloween has taken off here over the past few years. The kids come knocking on the door in elaborate costumes carrying large bags to collect the goodies while the Dads wait on the footpath sipping their designer beer - I don't like it much...

I find it very odd that over the last few days I have been thinking about Irving Stone's books and wondering just what happened to my copy of Michaelangelo and now here you are talking about them - some internet this - I haven't read the Pisarro piece but will be interested when it happens - though I will be away for much of December I will have easy access to come online. Thanks for the chance.

Ginny: I can tell you just loved the "Pirates of the Caribean" films. I did, too. A fellow working in the Barnes and Noble music dept. told me about a new CD that Johnny Depp helped to produce - a CD of sea shanties and other songs of the sea called "Rogue's Gallery: Pirate Ballads, Sea Songs and Chanteys." I love all kinds of music and listened to clips of many of the song tracks. Some are quite wonderful. A few are awful. Here's info from the label. It was on Amazon:

"From the Label: The idea for Rogue's Gallery originated when Gore Verbinski and Johnny Depp were working on their second film together, Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest. 'I slowly became fascinated by the idea of a contemporary reinterpretation of the sea chantey,' explains Verbinski. 'I imagined the artists that I listen to and respect doing their take on this age-old music: the song of the sea.'

The collection is filled with contemporary reinterpretations of songs from a genre of music that has all but disappeared. Bono, Sting, Nick Cave, Bryan Ferry, Lou Reed, Lucinda Williams, Loudon Wainwright III, Richard Thompson, Gavin Friday, Van Dyke Parks, Andrea Corr and Rufus Wainwright are only a few of the distinguished artists who turn in uncompromising and honest performances that illuminate the power of traditional sea songs."

You can check out the CD on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rogues-Gallery-Pirate-Ballads-Chanteys/dp/B000GLKMR4

Deems: I'm definitely going to have to get ahold of the new Stephen King.

Ahoy! The book discussion is now open for William Bligh's The Mutiny on Board HMS Bounty.

Come aboard, stow your gear, and join us in a gill of grog and some tasty salt pork, hardtack, and sauerkraut as we talk about Captain's Bligh's version of the voyage and mutiny of the Bounty.

If you don't yet have your book, it is available online from a link in our Header. The book discussion begins with Post #175.

Marni

MARNI, I read some of Stephen King, and then decided I didn't really want to be that frightened! The man is a master at what he does; he realizes there is nothing more frightening than having ordinary, everyday things become horribly threatening. I decided to leave it alone.

I've read a number of Irving Stone's books; they are all good.

Babi

Wow . go off the web for a few days and return to many many many messages on senior net. Enjoying the keys. reading a Harlan Coben..Sort of interesting actually. The Innocent.. The question I ask about this.. Do you really believe the prison changes a person entirely for life? even one who is innocent?

The discussion of Edgar Allan Poe's "The Purloined Letter" is now opened for comments from the readers. If you wish to participate in this discussion the link below will take you the forum.

The Purloined Letter Forum

Bill H

Stephanie, Do you really believe the prison changes a person entirely for life? even one who is innocent? yes, definity.

How could it not? Prison takes away your individualism, your identity. You lose your name and become a number, your clothing choices are limited to denim, etc. It is like the military. The only way to stifle the deep-rooted American individualism. I'll have to read that book.

I visited San Quentin about 40 years ago. It was organized by the Sociology Dept at San Jose State University. We arrived while they were at dinner, toured the wing where the trusties had single cells (about 6 x 10). Were taken around the yard, shown where a famous shoot-out had occurred (George Jackson's attorney had smuggled in a gun). Then we were served a dinner (fried chicken and mashed potatoes) prepared by prisoners and served by prisoners. Small round tables bolted to the floor with attached seats. The floor looked like it had been hosed down for us. The last item on the agenda was a prisoner's talent show in an auditorium with a stage. We were warned not to talk to any prisoner or give or take anything but at the end of the show some of them handed out addresses to the pretty girls on our tour. It was appalling. Probably purely my imagination but there seemed to be an atmosphere which could almost be felt, pressing down. The cells with their pictures, tv sets, toilets and sinks were inhuman. The experience still haunts me.

When I was a child, our church went caroling each year and that includedd the tiny local jail. I know the doors slamming and the keys to lock and unlock impressed this little girl for life. The Innocent is an interesting book. Harlan Coben is an interesting writer who says some pretty profound things about imprisonment and the reaction from police forever after.

Hi everyone. It's been a while since I've posted anything, but I've been trying to keep up with you all. I'm like "Jan" -- I don't post very often, but I visit the Book Nook everyday. It's wonderful to know there are so many people like me who love books!

I just wanted to tell you about a website I stumbled upon. It's called the Library Thing and can be found at:

Library Thing

I have so many books and this is a great way to keep track of them. You can also perform searches for books, get recommendations, make your own library shelf public or private, and lots more. If you run across a book you'd like to read, you can even use the website to see where the closest library is that has the book. I found a book listed on a Canadian blog today that sounded good. Unfortunately, the closest library was 3601 miles away in England!

I have just started adding my books, but if you would like to see my "library", just go to:

My library

Let me know what you think.

Sorry -- I forgot to say that you can keep an inventory of up to 200 books at no cost! That's the best thing.

I assure you this is my last post of the everning! I typed one character too many in the link for my own library. It is located at:

My Library

I hope this works.

Very nice Winchester Lady.

You are so organised!

Carolyn

Good work Winchester Lady - you're obviously a fan of Jodi Picault...have you finished entering or is there more to come?

Winchester, I love your library shelf. I am going to go there and look for some good titles. Thank you for posting your library.

How long did it take you to list all the books you wanted listed? Did you have fun listing the books? Was it like a chore?

I have all my Sci-Fi books listed on an Excel page on the puter because I have so many that I don't remember the titles. I take that printed list with me when I go to a book shop. I have over 250 of them!

The other novels, bios, etc, I usually remember well. Bubble

Bubble, that's great!

You are invited to join us for this discussion Depths of Glory on the life and work of Camille Pissarro and many other artists that we love.

Post a message there if you would like to join us for a December discussion.

Éloïse

Winchestershire Lady........what a great web site......thank you very much.......I am delighted to have something like this........Meanwhile I forgot a little book I had started, (if I had had this site perhaps I wouldn't have forgotten it) and finished it up yesterday.......The books title is "Plan B..Further Thoughts on Faith", by Anne Lamott......it is hysterically funny and is written in little essays........I think I was reading a chapter a day and then probably fell onto something else and forgot it for a bit.....

You talked about Shakespeare quotations and a discussion. Is that idea still in your plans? It's a mighty fine idea.

WinchesterLady: Thanks! That looks like a fum way to keep track.

Mrs Sherlock - Your plan to read all of Shakespeare keeps running through my mind and I must say how much I admire and applaud your intentions - Such a huge undertaking...

I've read a few novelists in entirety and dipped into the body of scholarship surrounding them perhaps in much the same way as you intend - but Shakespeare is so much more daunting. Each time I see S performed I rush home all fired up to read more of him and often do, sometimes browsing among the studies and commentaries I've collected over the years but only in a random kind of way. I'm always wishing I had studied him more when younger.

What a wonderful quest you have set yourself - I'm wondering how you plan to tackle it all -

When will you start?

How long do you expect the venture to take?

Will you set aside some Shakespeare time each day?

Will you read the plays chronologically as he wrote them ?

Will you tackle groups of plays together - comedies/histories etc ?

Will you keep a journal of your reading progress?

Do you intend writing critiques?

Do you intend to write a book?

Are you planning to share your impressions here on S/N?

Will there be a board for Mrs. Sherlock's Shakespearean Symposium ?

etc. etc. etc.

I know I've no right to ask all these questions and don't expect you to answer them but wanted to let you know that they are popping into my head at all hours of the day and night and give me no rest!

gumtree: What delightful questions you've asked; none of them had occurred to me. Thanks. I shall be beginning my studies shortly, probably with the new year. My expectation is to read one play/week although that may be optimistic. So how long depends on the time it takes to read and thoroughly analyze each play. Some will probably take longer than others, depending on my interest and reactions. I intend to be as orderly as I can so will schedule time every day in the mornings for my studies. This is as far as my plans have developed. It will be one play individually, although there may be some "group analyses" as I get deeper into it. A journal is a good idea; a book is not in theoffing, I am not a good writer. Maybe a blog would do. Certainly SN will get a chance to read my progress notes. I would love to have companions in this journey, are you interested injoining me?

I think reading Shakespeare is more engrossing if you have someone to talk with about it. I can't promise to keep up with you in your Shakespeare studies, but I'll probably do some dipping in.

Have you read many of his sonnets? Some surprised me by being so subtly wry that I had to laugh! The man had a marvelous wit.

Babi

MrsSherlock, at the very least, if you mentioned here whenever you started a new play, anyone who wanted to read it too, or had read it and wanted to talk about it, could comment here.

Mrs. Sherlock, if you write a blog about your thoughts, I would love to read it. You are very inspiring. What a wonderful plan.

How nice of you all to support me in my crazy plan. There are no finer words than Will Shakespeare's, I believe. Azimov's book is subtitled: A guide to understanding and enjoying the works of William Shakespeare. Doesn't that sound enticing? Bloom subtitles his book: The invention of the human. Even after four humdred years we are awestruck by his ability to create three-dimensional human characters. Will in the World: How Shakespeare became Shakespeare, adds the social, political, religious and economic context.

Jackie, I remember talking about this with you last year. We promised to start - if there is interest. AS I recall, you wanted to read Shakespeare's plays in chronological order, right? His firs, most agree was Henry IV, Part I.

We're nominating the next Great Book discussion right now in Great Books Upcoming - and will vote in two weeks. Would you like to nominate Henry? Another idea - your own blog. There is talk of blogs and home pages in SeniorNet's future.

Here's an idea I'd like to run by all of you. In January, a discussion of Pamuk's Snow is scheduled. This is not a light read as you may be familiar with his My Name is Red.

I have been listening to the discussion here in the Book Nook recently - a newcomer has commented on our monthly offerings, preferring lighter reading. I'm wondering whether we should try to offer more of a choice. What do you think of this idea -

We could vote as usual here for our next Great Books discussion, but instead of discussing it along with Snow in January, we could do it in February or March instead?

In the meantime, in January, we might do something a bit lighter than Snow - but with some depth to it.
Have you read Diane Setterfield's The Thirteenth Tale? A brand new book - Barnes and Noble had it for 30% off - I think it is being discussed on B&N University right now, not sure about that.

The author is a former professor of French Lit - André Gide, I think. She might be in her 60's. My memory is terrible. This is her first novel. It is gothic in the vein of Jane Eyre, Woman in White, Wuthering Heights, but it is difficult to say when her story is set. I was hooked on it from the start, worried that it was going to get too supernatural in the early 19th century way...but the woman has a way with story-telling and a real love of literature.

She says that when an author uses the same symbol three times, it is to draw attention to it by the repetition. Diane Setterfield has mentioned Jane Eyre three times at least...more. If you haven't read this novel lately - or seen the movie, you might like to read Jane along with Setterfield's 19th Tale.

What do you think? January, Thirteenth Tale and Jane Eyre and then in February or March we could do the newly elected title? Or Jane Eyre could be optional and we discuss Thirteenth Tale alone? It's up to you. I think it would be great fun and I think it might appeal to a wide range of readers.

Here's a link to Barnes and Noble on the book - in case you are on the fence. The Thirteenth Tale

I would love to know how you feel about reading Jane Eyre too!

And of course, the main reason I come in - to invite you to nominate Don Quixote's successor.

I've got the Thirteenth Tale reserved but my library hasn't received it yet. Revisiting Jane Eyre would be not problem; I wonder how my aged eyes and mind will see Rochester et al. now. Shakespeare chronologically? Maybe, to look for progress in his skills. I hadn't decided. Maybe I'll start Henry IV Part I now, to refine my method. So Blogs are on the horizon for SN? Exciting news. I had trouble sticking with My Name Is Red; hope Snow goes better.

SNOW, despite it's humour, is definitely for the serious reader. For that reason it would be wonderful to have an alternative, lighter, book available for discussion at the same time. The Thirteenth Tale sounds great. And so does Shakespeare, everyone's favorite. Isn't it marvellous, in these uncertain times, that Shakespeare seems such a bastion of reassurance in cultural and moral matters.

Pamuk's world is tipsy-turvy. Very unsettling. However, to make it easier, the publisher has provided a study guide, with focus questions and a marvellous 'Suggested Reading List' as an approach to this meaningful novel. Voila!

'SUGGESTED READING

Yesim Arat, Rethinking Islam and Liberal Democracy: Islamist Women in Turkish Politics; Karen Armstrong, The Battle for God; Fyodor Dostoevsky, Demons and Notes from Underground; Gabriel García Márquez, Chronicle of a Death Foretold; Jean Genet, The Balcony; Nilüfer Göle, The Forbidden Modern: Civilization and Veiling; Franz Kafka, The Castle; Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being; Thomas Kyd, The Spanish Tragedy; Vladimir Nabokov, Pale Fire; Afar Nafisi, Reading Lolita in Tehran; Nicole Pope, et al., Turkey Unveiled; Marcel Proust, Remembrance of Things Past; Salman Rushdie, Midnight’s Children; Tayeb Salih, Season of Migration to the North; Ivan Turgenev, First Love.'

Doesn't that make it look promising? I'm not surprised to see Kafka's CASTLE in there. K is the protagonist in the CASTLE. Pamuk's hero is KA, bewildered in snowbound, historic Kars, once an Armenian city, but now Turkish. But I don't want to say anymore. At a loss, anyways.

EGADS!! That is a suggested reading list as an approach to reading "Snow"?!! Proust alone would keep me struggling for months, ..if I ever finished! I am 'astonied'.

JOAN, I think the idea of pairing light reading with heavy reading is excellent. I do most of my 'heavy' reading that way in any case, using the lighter book when I need a break. It would certainly make it easier to participate in more than one discussion at a time.

Babi

Jonathan, will put Snow on my wish list for the holidays. Although I have heard it is not as good as My Name is Red, Red was one of the best books I've read in years. Maybe Snow will be the second best!

Babi, I've heard from others who like the idea of discussing The Thirteenth Tale and one of the 19th century Gothic novels (optional) in January. Personally, I'm all for reading Jane Eyre simply because D.Setterfield refers to it so often in her novel.

Will get up a proposed discussion to see if there is a quorum for the The Thirteenth Tale - such a discussion shouldn't interfere with our vote for our next Great Book adventure - except to put it off another month.

Is anyone interested in nominating one of the finalists from last time? Trollope anyone?
We'd love to hear from all of you in the Great Books Nomination discussion as we search for a follow up to Don Quixote.

Just a note about coming attractions also. We're going to be doing a nominating and voting process in January for our next Houseboat read.

I just saw a 25th Anniversary edition of the splendid BBC 11 part series Brideshead Revisited, starring Jeremy Irons and...was it John Gielgud? Or was it Lawrence Olivier?? has it really been 25 years!?!

At any rate that was a fabulous movie and very like the book but the book is even better, in some respects, I'm going to nominate IT again, and IF it wins (and it was runner up last time) I hope that you will join us.

The book is NOT long, but is VERY complicated and profound while telling a whale of a story, and you can enjoy it any way you take it. Just the thing for sitting in front of the fire on a cold winter's night!

In January we'll begin our nomination process, we have had so many good ones nominated in the past, and we'll enjoy discussing the particulars, pro and con of each one. Any book with HOUSE in the title or the name of a house is eligible. I thought The Professor's House was just a splendid choice and read, and enjoyed it very much, tho I had never heard of it before: the joy of a themed book club! So put January on your calendars and let's enjoy discussing the potential candidates, I like that about as well as discussing the book. hahaaa

Come on down to the Houseboat discussion, we are discussing books which nobody can make any sense out of so the meaning is happily up for grabs, like Seven Sisters by Margaret Drabble, a book I defy anybody to know WHAT she means at the end!

And Brideshead and maybe even Shalott if that's spelled correctly. The Lady speaks to choices women make, of isolation and being walled off. Seven Sisters speaks to choices women over 50 make, of isolation and being walled off.

The issue is it's not clear WHO walled the Lady off, nor what happened in Seven Sisters when the choice is made TO follow that shining star, whether it's a Knight in Shining Armor (Lady) or something else (Seven). I hope you will join us for either part: the Lady in February, hopefully followed by Seven Sisters.

"...shook when he laughed like a bowl full of jelly." I probably should not admit this but ever since I passed 60, suddenly the same thing happens to me? Has something shifted? hahahaa Very unpleasant, I did not realize I was turning into Santa Claus! I never laugh now that I don't think of that line.

It's getting to be holiday time again, I saw Christmas decorations in the stores BEFORE Halloween, why don't they just leave them up all year round?

But it's time to be polishing off the lists of what we'd like for the holidays book wise.

To me there's no better gift.

But let's be selfish for once and talk about what we'd like, ourselves. We always ask what we've gotten for others for the holiday season, let's start asking what WE'D like, really like to see wrapped up for ourselves, if we could have any book we'd like. Like many of you, we always give books, the gift that keeps on giving, let's focus on ourselves for once!

Here's what's on my Want List so far:

1. I do want the new Walt Disney biography, it was released October 30, they say it's stunning and he was a lot more complicated than anybody realized. All I know about him was that his father was a failed orange grower in Florida, lots of stress with that occupation so when it came time for Walt Disney to create a magic kingdom on the East Coast he bought up the very land his father had farmed and half the state besides for his Disney World. They're putting out some archival footage of him, and his ideas even way back then are stunning.

I can't wait to read it.

2. No surprise that I would like (this is not a book but is connected with Disney) the new Director's Cut of the Pirates II movie: two DVDs. I am finding so many classical allusions in the Pirate I movie it's almost scary, and a lot of fun. I love those outtakes and behind the scenes interviews, just love the art of filmmaking and what they can accomplish in film, just like in a book with words.

3 I'd like the new Lombardo Aeneid, simply because I like the way he writes. He and Fagles seem to be on the same track, running neck and neck with releases. It might be fun to compare them. I think the Aeneid is the last of the Big Three (The Odyssey, the Iliad and the Aeneid) left for us here in the Books to read in our 10 year history, and since our Latin students are reading it (103) or have read it (104, 201) in brief excerpts in modified Latin but we've not read it in English in either our Books or our Classics Program, I think we're well primed to get something out of it. It's also online free, but I'm not sure whose translation. Probably several. Dryden, Pope: might be fun to compare treatments, actually.

So that's a start on my own wish list, and I can see myself in front of the fire with any of them, what about YOU?

Ginny, I am ready to dig into a very profound work of fiction. I am excited.

I am presently reading "Singing Songs" by Meg Tilly and have her "Gemma" waiting when I'm finished with that. Both very disturbing books.

I also have "Israel, my Beloved" and a William Shatner Star Trek book coming up. I have so many "reading" books waiting for me, that if I had a wish list of books I'd love someone to give me it would be photo collections, like Annie Liebowitz's "A Photographer's Life"

I started reading the "Cat Who...." books on my recent trip and I'd like to read more of them.

I love "The Cat Who..." series too.

I listened to a book on tape driving 8 hrs to Santa Barbara last week and then happened to be staying with a friend who had a couple of other books, one of which I managed to finish in my time there. Now I want to start at the beginning and work my way through them all.

I often write articles and essays which my local weekly publishes but I don't post them here. Sometimes they are about specific mental disorders of interest to the public. Other times they are of interest to me. For example, next week they will be publishing an essay of mine about Veterans Day and the following week they will publish my article about Thanksgiving.

Robby

I've just read the most wonderful book, The Mulberry Empire by Philip Hensher. It's set in Kabul, Afghanistan(mostly) and follows the struggles between Britain and Russia to control Afghanistan in Victoria's reign.

I couldn't put it down, I weighed up every outing as to whether it was worth leaving The Mulberry Empire. My sister's B'Day with 30 pages to go? Yes, had to go to that one! One of the reviews said "Hensher reveals the significance of the small moment, of great figures seen in close-up, and of a subtle, sensuous intimacy with the fabric of these long-gone lives. The effect is exhilirating."

'Gorgeous, glittering and never dull" is just how I felt about this book!

Robby, would you consider sharing your articles about Veterans Day and Thanksgiving here on SeniorNet?

Ginny: I just read something about Walt Disney's father in The Devil in the White City by Erik Larson, a book about Chicago and the 1893 World's Fair. Walt Disney's father was a carpenter who helped to construct the buildings at the fair.

Ginny: I just realized something that I thought you would get a kick out of! The theme music for the CBS NFL football games on Sundays is "Skull and Crossbones" by Klaus Badelt in collaboration with Hans Zimmer. It's the theme song from "Pirates of the Carribean"!

Click here and scroll down to "Skull and Crossbones" to listen to a clip. I bet those of you whose TV's are tuned in to football Sundays will hear a familiar sound!

http://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Caribbean-Curse-Black-Pearl/dp/B0000A1RJI/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0/102-9170331-8072938

I would be very interested in reading The Aeneid, also, and am looking forward to a discussion of "Lady of Shalott."

Where should I do that, Marcie?

Robby

Marcie, congratulations!! I am glad you enjoyed the Seniornet Conference.

Comparing the two major modern translations of The Aeneid has me captivated. In fact, my Christmas list is headed by Virgil. Second is a really good history of Oregon. #Third is poetry; which author is TBD.

BEV, I attempted to read "Israel, My Beloved". The book irritated me to the point that I gave it up. And I had thought I would love it. You just never know.

JAN, that is a most enthusiastic recommendation of a book. With that kind of endorsement, I've definitely got to try and get my hands on it.

Babi.

I'd be curious to know what you found irritating. It was loaned to me by someone with whom I have almost NOTHING in common and I wondered if I would end up hating it.

marni, what an absolute hoot! Do they actually play that on football games? What a HOOT! Good thing I don't watch football (tho how I have avoided it since every television in the house AND the radios are playing a different game ahahhaa) I'd have jumped out of the chair! Thank you for that!

I will admit to an obsession with the Pirate movies, the writing is so much more than anybody thinks; and there are tons of classical allusions, and the acting! I saw a cut where the Director or the Producer or somebody was explaining to Johnny Depp why he had been cut entirely out of a scene. He said that Depp's character just riveted attention, and when he was on screen, nobody could even see the others, so they just moved him off, and cut him out of that particular scene so people could concentrate on the other speakers. He wasn't scene stealing, you just couldn't take your eyes off him, they showed it both ways: they showed him moved a little to the left and then completely off, it was hilarious.

I think Basil Rathbone was like that, if you notice any of the old Sherlock Holmes movies, again in character, you can't see anybody else in the room, it's not the actor's fault, it's their presence.

Mrs. Sherlock, we may have to do the Aeneid, maybe in May, a good time to begin and the comparison of translations would be marvelous, in that there are SOOOO many of them TO compare, two of them quite recent and some of them quite old, some in rhyme, some not. I think we'd get a lot out of it and May is closer than we think.

I think we will LOVE the Lady.

Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

Ginny, since I know nothing about the Aeneid, I would love for us to read it together.

Robby, if you email me your Veteran's Day article, I'll put it up on a page and link to it from our Veterans and Wars discussions.

You can post your Thanksgiving article in our Holiday Traditions discussion.

Thanks Marcie great I'd love that..

I may be wrong but I doubt if many of our Books people subscribe to the Veterans folder but I'll email it to you.

Robby

I agree. If it ends up in the Veterans Folder, you should put a link here.

Hey, I'm subscribed to the Veteran's Widows folder! Sue

BaBi, you will be captivated. Guaranteed! As the cover says "one hell of an achievement". I must say nothing has been passed down through the generations on the folly of underestimating native populations. I wanted to shake the British till their teeth rattled every time they made one of their "dull-witted, we know what's best" comments. To be still doing it in 2006 is unforgivable.

Winchesterlady, I meant to say what an interesting site that Library was.I bookmarked it and had a poke around. There's some interesting book talk there. Reading your Library was a stickybeak into your mind too, I love doing that.

Robby's article is at http://www.seniornet.org/php/default.php?PageID=8223

Thanks, Marcie. When I first mentioned here that I write a lot of articles that I never submit to SN but are published in local papers, Bubble emailed me to ask where she could find others. I suggested that she google "Robert Iadeluca" or "Robert B. Iadeluca" which has lots of my articles. Instead she put my name on ask.com and found loads of them. I write lots of stuff, some of which might interest you folks here and some might not.

Robby

Thanks Robby, Thanks Marcie.

Pat just opened the Native American Children's Book Project - Many of you have been waiting for this - the opportunity to make a difference in the lives of the children on the Blackfeet reservation in Browning, Montana.

You may know that SeniorNet has opened an Achievement Center for the adults on the reservation. There's a Boarding Dorm for kids in grades 1-12 and for the little preschoolers, there's an Early Learning Center.

Both of these facilities could really use children's BOOKS. Nice new books - or gently used, unmarked books. There are links of suggested titles in the heading to help you - It's simple, we just ask you to post when you are ready to mail a book for recordkeeping purposes - and to make sure they don't get too many dupes.

Drop in here to get involved. Native American Children's Book Project

Congratulations, Robby, that's wonderful, I'm glad it's somewhere we can see it and it's good to see the Books leading the way again with another sterling project: give the gift of reading, this time to children, what more could anybody want?

Hats, believe it or not, you learn a lot about the Aeneid in Drabble's Seven Sisters!

Funny how things tie in with each other, isn't it, and the ancients are suddenly HOT HOT HOT, check out Paul McCartney's new album, everybody wants to get in on the bandwagon, Finland has taken to broadcasting IN Latin, it's going to take over the world. ahahaha

Happy Election Day, those of you in the States!

Ginny, that's good news!

It is indeed a "happy" election day. No more inundation by flyers, e-mail, unwanted phone calls and door-do-door canvasers!

Hats! hahahaa

You got that right, Bev, in spades, I am so tired of my answering machine being cluttered up with recordings I could...er... well hopefully it's over and no run-offs to keep it going.

On the literary front, I finished the Boy Who Followed Ripley and I have no earthly idea what she was thinking of but I don't recommend it, to anybody, that one fell flatter than a flitter and had no reason.

So I've got one more in the 5 of her Ripley series, not exactly holiday reading, Ripley Under Water, and that will conclude the series: I do like a little spice in my holiday reading, but not quite that much. There's really nothing like a good Christmas mystery, tho, I like the contrast, but have not read a good one in some time, are there any new ones out this year? We should write one as a group.

I still think Charlotte MacLeod's Rest Ye Merry and Simon Brett's Christmas Crimes at Puzzel Manor are two of the best I ever read, I think. Super books, both. People get irritated at the Brett because he poses a challenge at the end of each chapter, a puzzle for the READER to go along with "Puzzel Manor" and each one is different,

I could literally hear my brain screeching, and squeaking in protest, there were a couple I never got and "cheated" by reading the explanations in the next chapers, but the last one he leaves unsolved, so you REALLY have to think and it's infuriating if you can't get it! It's fun to read with a friend, because they always see something you did not, he's...very brilliant, actually.

What's a good holiday read, that you recommend? Did you see that new book out by the woman who married a Masai warrior and moved to Africa? They say it's unreal! I did start and immediately put down the book I Feel Earthquakes Even When They Are Not Happening, and I think I'll put it on the Book Exchange, it's non fiction, about the difference in living on the East Coast and what California looks to those who live in NYC, but I don't care for it actually. I should have read a bit of it in the store before buying, that's one nice thing Amazon is doing: you can often look inside and then read a few pages ahead.

(Did you know you can get virtually anything ON Amazon? Including Ecco boots? From Nordstroms? Amazing).

Ginny, what's the title of that book?

"Did you see that new book out by the woman who married a Masai warrior and moved to Africa?"

I am reading a nonfiction book. It's great! It's titled "Beautiful Jim Key The Lost History of A Horse and A Man Who Changed the World" by Mim Eichler Rivas.

Jim Key

In the beginning of the book, there is a quote from "All the Pretty Horses" by Cormac McCarthy. I remember that title. Did I miss a good book? I wonder.

BEV, I think my irritation with "Israel, My Beloved" was partly disappointment. I has expected to really like it. I am well aware that the story of Israel's relationship to God was full of up and down,...faithlessness, hardheadedness, and disobedience, alternating with magnificent accomlishments.

Unfortunately, the book seemed all 'down'. 'Israel' sounded,in her various incarnations, whiny, or petty, or willful to the point of absurdity. I got so fed up with this depiction. Even God seemed too one-sided in the way the author represented him. I had hoped for something deep, wise and meaningful. For me, ..it wasn't there.

Babi

BABI - I guess I'll have to start reading the book. As I said, my friend and I agree on almost nothing politically, religiously, ideologically, morally--but she recommends it highly and I should at least start it!

I had rave reviews on the "Left Behind" series many years ago. I bought two books, started one and halfway through I actually threw it across the room and yelled that I refused to read that garbage!

Babi, I teach an adult SS class which has been studying parts of the Old Testament this quarter. Believe me, the Bible depicts a very uneven relationship between Israel, the chosen people, and God. I have not read Israel, My Beloved, but your #524 sounds really close to the Original. Sue

BEV, I believe I read three of the "Left Behind" series before I decided that was enough. It became obvious the authors would be able to draw out their speculations much longer than I cared to continue.

SUE, I know the pigheadedness, the whining, the unfaithfulness and disobedience were all there, But there were also redeeming events, faithful people, and courageous actions. And to the best of my remembrance (it's been a good while, and I didn't finish the book), God's response in the book was not as Biblically accurate.

Babi

My son read the first book in the Left Behind series. He enjoyed it. I haven't read any of the series. A friend I know read the whole series.

I can't wait to start Margaret Drabble's Seven Sisters. The woman on the cover interests me. Her face doesn't show. I can tell the woman is very thoughtful. She is a thinker, I believe.

My problem with the "Left Behind" series was that it seemed to be one page of plot and 2 pages of propaganda and after half a book, I just couldn't stomach it any longer.

Hats - Seven sisters is like two books running alongside each other. I am lazy enough to say I liked the one of the books better than the other. The Greek thing was a bit above me!

I think the Witch of Exmoor would make a fabulous discussion. It delves into the psyche. As you probably know by now my reading is character driven. The better the author can draw the characters the more I like the book.

Carolyn

Carolyn, I hope you are going to be in the "Seven Sisters" discussion. I like how you see "Seven Sisters" as two books in one.

This site is pretty cool. It has lists of top 10 books on topics like business (marketing, leadership), family and home (gardening, cooking), and technology. For example, if you don't want to waste time figuring out which are good books on php or marketing, this site really helps because it greatly narrows down the best books on the topic. You can even add your own lists.

Avid: Thanks for the site. Science books are not as well publicized as fiction books are. I expecially like to read about the human brain studies as well as geology (Oregon is very ripe ground for geology - PTP), architecture and art.

WELCOME AVIDBOOKREADER We will be looking forward to your posts.

You will be getting an official welcome letter, please watch for it.

has gotten so long, i've stopped adding to it. Thank goodness i can just come back to SN if i ever run out of reading material(hahahahaha) and get some new ideas. Our town library has closed for a year for renovations, so i'm getting some of my stash of "book sale" books read......things are movin' on.......jean

Mabel you poor thing. When our branch libraries close they rent premises and move in til the library is ready again. We are very very lucky with our library service out here.

Sad news. Ed Bradley will be sorely missed. He was my favorite.

Mrs. Sherlock, oh, I loved Ed Bradley too. He was a wonderful reporter. He seemed like a gentle man. He was sixty five.

Ed Bradley. He did the very very best interviews.. Who can forget his gentle flirting with Lena Horne.. or verbal sparring with Ali.. And he just finished a wonderful expose on the nonsense going on in North Carolina about the LaCrosse players..

I'm so sorry about Ed Bradley.

Things in the Books are certainly perking right along, we have a nice quorum for the Thirteenth Tale and lots of great talk in the Houseboat, do join in, we're all set for the long winter's nights here in the Books but always open to any new suggestions, so ply away.

Now I'm in the last and it has to be the best, Ripley. This book is dedicated (it was written in 1991) but it still surprised me: "To the dead and the dying among the Intifadeh and the Kurds, tho those who fight oppression in whatever land, and stand up not only to be counted but to be shot," and it's a doozy. Ripley, suave, urbane, and living the life of elegance in his huge French Chateau, has some neighbors move in, from America. Nouveau riches and they appear a bit strange.

Reminds me of Nelson DeMille's fabulous Gold Coast where they guy moves into a tony neighborhood of palatial homes and his new neighbor is ... shades of Tony Soprano!!..... but anyway, all of a sudden the phone in the Ripley home rings, and guess WHO is on the line?

Guess, those of you who have read any of the previous 4 books?

Dickie Greenleaf!!

Now if you read the first book or saw the movie you know who HE is and you know why this one is a really suspensful super read, it's very well done.

So she's finished out the series the way she started it: fabulously.

Also in the mail yesterday as I was saying came the 25th Anniversary set (4 DVD's) of Brideshead Revisited with a DVD of outtakes and interviews and background information so I'll probably be boring you all to tears with it even IF we don't choose it in the Houseboat discussion in January.

I figure since we have now been blessed with a new grandson, our first, and since I bought every year when I bought books for my goddaughter and the Pubelo Indian child we sponsor in New Mexico one of the same book for my non existant grandchildren, in hopes there might be one, that I can now do in thanksgiving, the same for the SeniorNet Native American Indian Children's Project, and when this baby gets old enough he can go with me and we'll pick out some books for these precious (run see the photos) children who so desperately need books. The 0-5 group coordinator says she has nothing at all for those children, run see the discussion on the main SeniorNet menu and add a Native American child to YOUR shopping list, imagine, just imagine the excitement when they open them!

click on Discussions & Chat in the black bar at the top of the page here and then pull the page down till you see Native American Indian Children's Book Project, it's like a Santa's Workshop!

Our little fellow's mother in New Mexico used to write you should see the excitement he has when the box comes. Let's see how many books we can send. I'm going out today myself, there may be a good sale on at B&N.

Today I'm going to Portland where there is a B&N, AND Powells is there also. Should come home with several books. Shall get a couple of picture books but I worry about the older kids. I don't remember being read to but my children were. They don't remember Goodnight Moon, etc.; they remember the books they read themselves or the funny ones like Otto. So I want to help create those memories for the children who can read. Besides, lacking grandchildren, I can't judge books well for the very young. Except for "I'll Always Love You" which may not be appropriate here, I'm stumped, even with the lists.

I am 100 percent with you, Mrs. Sherlock, I went yesterday night see below and doggone if I wasn't stumped, too! So what do you do under those circumstances? haahah You plump for exactly what you said: books you KNOW are good! The same memories. For the older ones, maybe the Harry Potter series and maybe that Unfortunate Circumstances series and there's one about a girl, it may be on Jane's list, but the kids love it. I am going to write the Pueblo Indians where we sponsor a child, they did send a list for older kids some time ago and we need it. *They were all books about the Indian experience and history, tho.*

There used to be a series about heroes, that is athletes and what they overcame: Jim Thorpe, for one, lots of books like that, inspirational, I need to find out what that series is, those are really good books for older kids.

So that that Ripley dedication leave everybody speechless? hahaah It did, me, too, but she's in rare form, we're in Morocco this time, on holiday, Tangier, being followed, it's really something. I think the most stunning thing about this one is the way she gets you on HIS side, it's an amazing tour de force, this last one, Ripley Under Water (and has absolutely nothing to do with Kurds or Intafadeh or anything like it). Ahahaa

B&N is having a big sale and I had B&N coupons on top of it, but I tell you what, you enter the Children's section at your own peril, who KNOWS what to buy?

That's unreal, never saw so many books. Those Jan Brett books are the prettiest things I ever saw, is that a man or a woman? It appears that a lot of the oldies have been replaced with books which are flashy but of no content: no plot, nothing, just color, sigh.

I got the new Walt Disney yesterday!! It's just out as of October 30, huge book, can't put it down: reads better than any fiction. The very first sentence in the book is "He was frozen." That's from the introduction which talks about the rumor, apparently started by a tabloid reporter who disguised himself as an orderly in the hospital when Disney died (is nothing sacred?) and reported having seen a cylinder in which Disney was suspended. The idea was that he was to be cryogenically frozen to be brought back to life later on. Some of Disney's animators like Ward Campbell "took pride in keeping the rumor afloat."

Disney himself, (who was cremated), bolstered the rumor by an eerie film he made before his death played after his death to his top people and studio heads, in which he sat behind a desk and pointed at each of them by name and addressed them as to what he wanted the future plans to be like and ending, "I'll see you soon."

The title of the book is Walt Disney: The Triumph of the American Imagination by Neal Gabler, and it truly is a page turner, never read anything like it. Here's more from the Introduction (I only got it last night):

"Though Disney was anything but a dark prince, neither was he exactly the affable illusion that had subsumed him. For all his outward sociability, associates found him deeply private, complex, often moody , and finally opaque. No one seemed to know him. "He was a difficult man to understand, " said Ben Sharpsteen, who worked for him in various capacities from the late 1920's on. "He never made his motives clear...When I added up thirty years of employment, I found I understood him less at the end." Bill Peet, another long time studio hand wrote, "I do believe I knew Walt about as well as any employee could know him," then added, "even though he was never the same two days in a row."

Roy Disney, Walt's nephew, (whom I hope to hear more about, having read the Eisner Biography and HIS opinion of him), said, "if you get forty people in a room together, and ask each one of them to write down who Walt was, you'd get forty different Walts."

What a fascinating man, how I admire his vision, I can't wait to read more.

What are YOU reading you just can't put down!? What a great time of year to enjoy a good read.

Just a note, for the older kids I got the first three Harry Potters, we need to get our lists up in the discussion so nobody wastes money on the same thing, no matter how many of them there are.

There is also CS Lewis's Books for the older kids. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe series. I am very tempted to buy some of our books written for our Maori children. There are such similarities in customs. There are very good paperback editions that wear quite well with my grands. They are all still in one piece here and such wonderful illustrations with stories about fishing and hunting and climbing etc. To hang with the postage! I might be able to get some sort of discount from the store if I explain who the books are for.

I have a Joy Cowley young adult book in mind for the older kids. It has elements of our Maori traditions in it too and goes backwards and forwards from this time to a time hundreds of years ago in a very magical mysterious way. Over here adults enjoyed the book as well as kids. It is a great adventure story as well.

Carolyn

Oh, list some good ones, Carolyn. I always buy children's books about other cultures for my nieces, nephews, cousins and everyone, and certainly have bought no Maori children's books. They love learning about all the cultures of the universe.

Also, Ginny, please, post that list of young-adult American Indian books.

There are tons of great American Indian books these days. It would be good to read one on SeniorNet, some time, like Mary Crow Dog's harsh and beautiful autobiography, Lakota Woman.

Kleo

Count me in on Lakota Woman if its ever done. I am really fascinated with indigenous cultures. Its amazing how customs are so similar and they all have some basic beliefs that are identical. Brooke and Grace are part Maori. You can see it in Brooke but Grace is purely Celtic. They look so very different.

My niece Amber has a Maori boyfriend and his family are very much into their culture. My sisters house was badly damaged by fire and when its all repaired my nieces boyfriends elders from his whanau ( extended family) will come and bless it. They want to do it. The neighbours will get a bit of a shock! The ceremony begins as they first set foot on the property. The chanting is quite loud. My sisters neighbourhood is made up of wealthy white people and wealthy Asians. They will also pray, The prayer is called a Karakia. It is actually quite an honour to be offered this ceremony as a Pakeha family. It means that they consider my sister and her family as their family. Many educated Maori are very involved in preserving their culture.

carolyn, please, oh please, takr pictures if it isn't offensive. I read books when I was young about women like Elizabeth Blackwell, first woman doctor. Also fairy tales from other cultures, I particularly remember a book about Japanese. Also I was fascinated to read about American sub-cultures like African-American, etc., including Native American (although we didn't use those words then). My children always brought home the flyers when paperback books were being bought at school and we ordered them by the 10s. My six-year-old son almost wore out a biography of Clyde Tombaugh who did somethine new and exciting in astronomy (I've forgotten just what).

Ms Sherlock - It was considered offensive once but it is not so much now. For the first time in history, recently the tangi of our Maori Queen was televised by live coverage on the Turangawaiwai Marae. However still the cameras were banned after they carried her up to the sacred mountain for the burial service. I will take photos but it is the sound that is so special.

Carolyn

Ms Sherlock the father of my nieces boyfriend is part American Indian and part Maori. He looks American Indian. He is also very interested in his fathers culture. An amazing combination. The girls in the family are very beautiful, slender and fine boned.They are brilliant students too. Their Maori mother is the School Principal of a large school here in Auckland. I would love if we could do books that encompass other indigenous cultures. Maybe we can begin next year doing one at a time. Indian American, Black American and so on reading our way round the world!

Yes, Carolyn, let's do the other cultures thing. That was what I got out of my early reading, how like we are. This from a girl who was born in the deep south and was told that "those people" weren't like us. Still, when it was birds and bees time, my mother said that, under the skin, we are all the same! Cause I asked! Once we really believe that we are all one maybe we will quit killing each other.

Jackie

Carolyn, what a great idea! Mrs. Sherlock, what a winning thought. Peace is what we desire so much. Unfortunately, cultural differences or the way we see one another keeps us far apart and with violence in every part of the world. At least, Seniornet is beginning a good thing.

*They were all books about the Indian experience and history, tho.*

I, too, would be interested in seeing that list. Surely it is important for these young Blackfeet children to know their own history and see their own culture acknowledged and respected. One's heritage inevitably makes an impact on who one is, don't you think? Like most Americans, I am a mutt...ie., mixed breeds. Yet I take pride in each bloodline. These children need that, too.

Babi

Many minority children and young adults experience what it is like not to know about their ethnic history. It is very sad. In schools children are taught the history of the predominant race of the country.

To help - in North Carolina there is a chapter of the National "Battle of the Books" that some children enjoy the participation. My youngest grandson being one of them - they put out an annual list of books that are the books these students read for that year - here is the North Carolina Site Battle of The Books North Carolina there is national site that I do not have bookmarked that does include a list for younger students - the list I linked is for Jr. High students.

I know a lot of books on the list that I never read and are new to me...

There is a Native American author, Cynthia Leitich Smith who has lists of books for Native American Children - from picture books - to chapter books - to books for Jr. High through High School.Links to books for Native American Children recommended by Cynthia Leitich Smith

As well as the University of Illinois has a list of books appropriate for Native American Children. UIUC library list for Native American Children

And here is a list of Native American Authors for Teachers.

And finally a site that has links to several web sites of Native American books for Children

Regaining a cultural identity has been a means of many Maori going on to do University and partake in the wider world with a pride and confidence once lost. Until we as pakeha ( or white settlers) acknowledge the place of our indigenous peoples and in your case also of the Black American who developed a unique culture of their own we will have lost children. This is the way to a harmonious society. We are getting there here but there is still a long way to go.

It really wasn't that long ago since we have had native American literature that was published - N. Scott Momaday published his Pulitzer Prize winning novel, "House Made of Dawn," in around 1970 and that opened the flood gates so folks could not only read but also buy books written by Native American authors.

My favorite is Leslie Marmon Silko who writes a bit closer to the way a western story is told - I have read Momaday but did not get it till I attended a workshop when Silko was here teaching for a year at Southwest Texas in San Marcos [the college has yet another name that I cannot keep up with]

Any how I learned much about reading Native American work - while telling a story they have a different sense of time that is the past and future is treated as the now - and so many parts of the story are really allegorical.

Thank you all, this is lovely. Barbara and Babi, if you have not already, would you please post those posts again in the Native American Chlidren's Books discussion so they can be put in the heading there? They'll soon be lost to view here and this discussion is not archived, in the other one they will stay! Lovely conversation here!

I think that would be wonderful, Carolyn!

Thanks for those links, BARBARA. They will be a great help.

Ginny, I thought I did post them in the Native American Books section, but I'll check. I know I posted them in one of the relevant sites.

Babi

HATS, There is a great article on African history in Mahlia's ISLAM forum. I tried to transfer it here, but when I checked my link it was the wrong one. I suspect I shouldn't have deleted that long row of numbers at the end.

Nevertheless, if you are interested in the finding of 150,000 handwritten documents found in TIMBUKTU, take a quick visit to the ISLAM discussion.

Babi

Babi, thank you for the link. Since I love to read, I don't find it a problem to find out about African American history or just African history. My concern is or was for the younger people in school. I feel no lack in finding material to read about my heritage. I am a bibliophile. I refuse to read about one race, one country, one religion. I like to learn about other worlds other than the world I live in. I like to read about all people other than my people. The freedom to read any book I wish is part of my American right.

I don't need to be taught about my Black History. I am fully aware of my beginnings, my middle and my end. I also continue to learn everyday. The books offered by Seniornet don't make up my whole world of reading. I have personal choices in books.

Probably, my family is different from your family. My family is interracial. My grandchildren are all biracial. My daughter in laws are white. We are a living rainbow. My family is a force that has moved me into different worlds.

While growing up, maybe to my misfortune, my mother gave me a book. She didn't say anything about the color of the author. Neither did my father. They taught me to read books. That is how I pick books today. I pick books by interest, sometimes I choose a book because of my Black heritage. However, I refuse to narrow my world to one genre. I will not allow my reading to segregate me in to one world.

I am beginning to feel that my presence here is a bother to some people. Why is she reading this or that??? No matter, whether I am here at Seniornet or leave Seniornet, I won't allow anyone to make me read about one culture.

I am not offended. I am thankful for the link given. I just wanted you to know Africa isn't foreign to me. I do read about Africa. I would love to go there and see Victoria Falls. I am familiar with Black poets: Claude Mckay, Maya Angelou, Langston Hughes, Paul Laurence Dunbar. I am familiar with African American authors. I know my people. I love my people. I love the world.

Thank you Babi, Traude advises there is something new this morning in the NY Times we might all want to see, too, we're always so au courant here in the Books.

Thank you Barbara, for posting those links!

I finished Mr. Ripley last night, Ripley Under Water, the last one and she ended it with a bang, one of her best, I think, unguessable to the end: pure escapism, I am sorry she did not live to do another. Good book! Am now deep in Disney, what a book!!!

Has anybody read Edward Bulwyr-Lytton's The Last Days of Pompeii?

About this time of year they give a prize to the Worst First Line in Writing, in his honor, and I've entered but never won. hahahaa It's on the web, if you're interested, I thought what I sent in the past was awful enough but apparently they thought not the worst. It's interesting to enter just to get their responses. hahahaa

Am having Ripley withdrawal. hahaah I'd like to start an Inspector Morse, have never read ONE, what would you advise starting with??

?? I was going to read some of the others suggested here earlier, but am in the mood for something with a little bit of bite, an edge, for some reason.

Anyone here interested in French Canadian culture? I am, how do they say here in Montreal: "Québécoise pure laine" meaning 'pure wool (blooded) Quebecer' I don't know how they found that label, but my father's ancestor came from France in 1641 and this family never married outside of their race until I did. My husband was part FC, part Dutch, part Scottish, and my grandchildren have 8 different nationalities, so like Hats is saying we are all colors of the rainbow and hardly anybody in our family is "pure blooded". So Hats, don't ever think that you are a bother here because you are not.

I was raised in French and it is what I speak at home so naturally I read French books mostly until my teens when I learned English well enough to understand the written language.

Depths of Glory by Irving Stone, a biographical novel about the Impressionist Camille Pissarro will be discussed in December and everyone is invited to join our wonderful group. All those who have travelled to France or wished they had will get an art/eyefull with links and posts. We will be seeing the Paris and environs of Pissarro, Degas, Renoir, Sisley, Monet, Manet, Caillebotte, every Impressionist is mentioned in this wonderful book. Hats has joined our group I am happy to say.

Éloïse

Hats: You are a delight. Keep on keeping on. What you say about books which i have read also keeps me on my toes. They say that as we get older we need mental stimulation to keep our brains from atrophying. You keep me stimulated. Love, Jackie

Hi everyone

Yesterday I went to the Mall with my daughter Vanessa. We went to pick up a book I had ordered for a Jan discussion. Of course it did not end there! Vanessa treated herself to the latest Jamie Oliver cookbook as a Christmas present to herself. It is a veritable tome and has lots of instruction on exactly how to choose fresh fruit and vegetable produce to how to choose fresh poultry, red meat and fish. He really details the process in with some really fabulous recipes. Vanessa is a great cook and when we got back she was just lost in plotting and planning her next dinner party.

My book The Thirteenth Tale is going to be a great read. (I have had a wee peek!) I hope I can keep my hands from wandering to the Bookcase and grabbing it before the discussion begins.

Hats our family is a big blend too. Don't you dare disappear! D' ya hear now.

I had a busy day yesterday. I had family from 9.15am. They came in relays and the last one (Vanessa) left at 7.15pm. Gosh I love to see them all.

Grace was sweet yesterday. She her sister and three cousins were all surfing the kids sites while we talked. (My PC is in a nook between living room and dining room) She came over to me and asked that the bigger kids should give three year old Taine a turn. I let Taine use the PC as its really important that he get skills as they are really into Computer technology from a really early age at school these days. My nine year old grand supervises the little ones.

Its pouring with rain here today in Auckland. A good day to get out one of my old favorites and have a read.

carolyn

Hats, I had to go back to see what everybody was talking about, love that rainbow analogy, that's what you are here, to us, a rainbow on the darkest days!!

(I never see a rainbow, actually, that I don't think of the verse, "I do set my bow in the cloud...")

I came in to say however that JP Collins, who is one of our Latin students, had posted a note to his class on a new article this morning in the Boston Globe, about the Aeneid translation of Fagles, and since we had been idly talking about doing the Aeneid in May and comparing translations, I asked him to post it in the Classical Bulletin Board, Post 139 and I thought you might like to see it!

Hats, you are not allowed to disappear! You are needed here: every opinion counts and is interesting.

Hey, I can't be called African although I was born and educated there, but I loved that place. I left a big piece of my heart there when I had to go. I am always so glad when I hear or can talk the language. It happens very seldom, when some people come here on a study group. Bubble

Hats: Nope, you're not allowed to even think of leaving here...

...we need all of our views-dissenting views/opinions/suggestions. That's the only way any of us learns and finds new worlds to explore.

Not everyone is going to want to read everything suggested by everyone, but, as you said so well, that's our right as individuals to choose our own reading according to our own interests, curiosities at the moment, circumstances, etc.

jane

Hey Bubble - Vanessa spent four months in Africa - her boyfriend at the time had an Uncle who lived in Kenya and a Granny who lived in SA. Uncle flew them all over different countries in his private plane. They did a safari. They stayed with friend of the Uncles and slept in the little cottage by the pond that William and Harry stayed in while they were in Africa ( the princes) She said if ever she had to live anywhere else it would be Africa. She has some fabulous photos.

Carolyn

HATS - your family sounds similar to mine. We are French/Irish/Persian and Jewish/Christian/Muslim. My son is an ordained Southern Baptist minister, currently completing his service as a Special Forces Army Chaplain and enroute to a 3 year posting at NATO in Madrid, while my husband, an Egyptian Arab Muslim has returned to his university duties in Egypt as a professor of American and British literature. We laugh every time we think of the possibility of an Egyptian with a British accent teaching American Lit to American university students! As a child, I was raised in a multi-generational, multi-linguistic family with a strong multi-ethnic and multicultural fiber. I've served in USAID's Africa Bureau and the Egyptian Cultural Bureau in Washington, DC. A joke among several of my African colleagues was always "Mahlia, you DO know you're white, don't you?" Yes, but it makes little difference in the family and world in which I was raised.

The reference to which BABI referred and which I posted in the ISLAM discussion is a wonderment for all people, not just Africans or African Americans. The discovery in Timbuktu of thousands of ancient pages of text is a treasure to all interested in ancient history, the continent of Africa, and the cultures and customs of those who lived in those days. Just as I, a pale complexioned, blue eyed, brunette with VERY Irish features, continue to be interested in the ancient travels and travails of the Persian and Arab Jews (especially those from the great Iraqi Sasoon families of Baghdad), as well as the Chinese Jews (especially the descendents of the Ai family, who included Han Chinese, Persian and Arab businessmen), the wonders of ancient African heritage also "call" to me. And it was with that type of thought in mind that I posted the link about the Timbuktu discovery, which BABI immediately thought to provide for your convenience.

JOAN - we also will be responding promptly to the invitation to send books for the Native Americans, as our local Cherokee Lumbee friends begin their own contact with the new Native American Center for the Blackfeet residents in Browning, MT. The Pine Ridge Sioux community in South Dakota is the central focus of our local friends, but we ALL are eager to contribute to Browning as well. And perhaps as you already know from Marcie's posts, we are also exploring the possibility of establishing a Learning Center in our area of NC. Thanks to SeniorNet for this great opportunity!

CAROLYN - it's great to hear of more positive experiences in Africa! I am currently working with the widow of one of my cousins to establish a memorial for his on-site efforts in several African villages to bring about better life-styles and more education for the children and youth. As a university educator and administrator, my cousin was focused on education for all people and devoted a lot of his free time and effort in arranging for children in the most out-of-the-way locations to learn, while his wife was interested in health issues. It is a great pleasure to be part of this family endeavor.

Mahlia - it always takes a while to absorb the mult-ethnicity of your family! Whew!

Heartening to hear of your support for the Blackfeet children's project. As I understand it, SeniorNet has plans in the future to open six more Achievement Centers on other reservations in the future. The Blackfeet project is our template.

Again, thank you!

At last I've caught up with all of the posts here (and in other folders) that I have had to miss. Will try to do better.

Yes, I told GINNY that this Sunday's NYT Book Review contains a Special Children's Book Section (pp. 17-48). It is sure to come in handy not only for our respective family gift-giving, but especially for guidance as we embark on the new Indian project.

HATS, your post saddened me. And I join those who've already answered you to tell you, again, that you mustn't even think about leaving us ! Yours is a valuable, cherished voice; your opinions count; we appreciate your insights -- so recently articulated in our discussion of "A Fine Balance" in which you were a constant presence to the end, and I want to send you a heart-felt thankyou.

I have a real place in my heart for indigenous peoples. I am so glad that SN is going to be part of bringing the wonderful world of good books and computer knowledge to the Blackfoot Indians.

In my little extended family we have three religions now. Protestant Christian, Roman Catholic and Islam. Two faith families in two cases. The kids all get on so well together. Why can't we do this in the wider world? Two of my grands have Maori Blood. On the European side of my heritage we have, German Irish Scottish Spanish and English. The German blood in my children is much stronger than mine. Their grandma was German on their fathers side. They also have stronger Irish genes than mine. Irish on their dads side as well as on mine.

We have a wedding coming up in 2008 which we have called "Our Big fat Turkish wedding" then after that back here we have our "Small and reserved Pakeha wedding" It will certainly be very interesting. Diversity is certainly the spice of life!

Carolyn - did you ever post any photos of your daughter's visit to Turkey to meet her future in-laws?

Mahlia I have been waiting and waiting for Cenk to get off his butt and put some on CD for me. I have seen them all but don't have any copies myself yet.Cenk is off to Turkey for Christmas by himself. They can't afford for both of them to go this year. Cenk has to organise the venue for the wedding while he is there. Vanessa has one in mind but it will depend on how much room they can have.

Barbara, thanks for the link to North Carolina's Battle of the Books. I had heard a number of years ago about a similar contest in Alaska, but didn't know other states were also doing it. An interesting list of books for children in grades 6-8 (Middle School)-including some rather meaty ones -- Watership Down, for that age level. The site also included a quote from Mortimer Adler, which I thought quite fitting --

"In the case of good books, the point is not
to see how many of them you can get
through, but rather how many can get
through to you".

Oh Hats - you of all people to be hurt - you bring such a positive view to every issue that is discussed - and you bring to my attention authors that frankly I would pass by - I treasure your voice in these discussions - I cannot say I am from a rainbow family or even a many cultured family but that does not stop me from admiring and learning much from the thoughts you share here on Seniornet.

I may fiercely support the rights of all cultures but it takes someone from another culture to show me the obvious since I do not automatically think things through the experiences and eyes of another - if for that reason alone I have valued you and Bzzzbye who is Native American and posts in the political discussions - You both have opened me to a different view of life and I am so grateful that you continue to post from your viewpoint. It isn't that you explain from your viewpoint it is just that you share from a different mountain top - and what glory that is for me.

Just to chime in.. Hats you bring so much to the discussions, I know we have never met, but I have felt for some time, that I have a new friend..Her email name is Hats and she is quite lovely in all possible ways. Talking of books and authors,, I realize that I really have no idea what an author is or may be.. Just does not enter into my choices of books.. My only point when I read a book is that it not be in dialect.. I just tried to read a Jamaican book and to my dismay, it got some confusing, I just gave it up. I think the author is excellent, but she got so committed to dialect that it is unrecognizable to any but ones who speak like that..

Hats.......for the longest time I had no idea if you were black, white, blue, or red, nor did I care, nor do I care........you are delightful and I ALLWAYS read your posts.......don't ever leave.......by the way.......am all most finished with John Grishams newest "An Innocent Man".........it is NOT fiction, a quick and most interesting read.........it may have changed my mind about the death penalty..........don't miss it if you like that kind of book.......

Hats as you can see We love you so come home. We are a family of many many colors, I miss your posts. Ginger

Ok, I have come home. Thank you for all the nice words. All the nice words are exactly my feelings about all of you here at Seniornet. When I am not here, I feel sad. So, no more compliments for me. I love all of you! We need to start reading quickly. The holidays are almost here. Somehow I can cook, read and shop too. I wonder why a page of a book has not been discovered in the turkey.

Thank you for all the nice emails too.

Thank you again.

Thank you for inviting me to the Timbuckto discussion. I am very excited about it. My flaw is becoming too emotional, not understanding everything said to me. I am still striving very hard to become a better person. I have found out it's a lifetime process.

Oh, my dear HATS, you are not a bother; you're a joy! Of course you know your history. The Timbuktu discoveries are new, and to me exciting, and I thought you might not have yet heard about them, that's all.

We all feel that way about books, I believe, and the first person who handed us a book opened doors of wonder and adventure.

Babi

Bless us,..we were posting at the same time, HATS. I know all about that lifetime process. Here I am 71 years old, and I still embarass myself!

Babi

Babi, I always need to learn more about Africa or any other subject. Look, I misspelled Timbucktu. Now, that is embarrassing. Believe it or not, I couldn't tell you one thing about Timbuckto. That means I need to hurry up and get to the discussion. I did bookmark a site last night. Mahlia must have given the page that I put in favorites.

Welcome Home Hats

. I;m smileing for sure

Whew! Now we can get on with it! One thing I like about books is that we can discuss things like adults with good humour. We may not always agree but our opinions are always respected.

The Thirteenth Tale is sitting in my book case and it keeps beckoning me. Will I be able to keep my hands off it!

Did you all know Mal is in a burns unit. She accidentally poured boiling water on herself.

If anyone wants to send a card her address is now

Marilyn Freeman

LeHigh Valley Hospital and Health Network

Cedar Crest & 1-78

PO Box 689

Allentown PA 18105

Carolyn

Hey, Everyone! Sorry to have been absent. October was one whale of a month. November doesn't look like it's going to be much better.

Anyway, Hats, I love you too. And am glad you are back

Sometimes it's better to miss out on some things

Maryal, I missed you. I also love you.

Carolyn, I did not know Mal was in a burn unit. I will send her a card. Thank you for the address.

I hope Mal is flooded with cards; one will be mine.

I have been reading books by and about women, except for SF and Mysteries, for quite some time now. A book that was mentioned here has been quite an eyeopener in taking me into the lives of men. It is Home Fires Burning by Robert Inman. The central characters have chapters where their voice speaks; one is a boy, one is his grandfather, another is his father, other men also get to have their say. A small southern town during WWII tries to cope with the stresses of change, both internal and social. I am impressed by this writer's deft touch. Hope he's written other books and that they are as well done as this one.

I also read that book by Robert Inman and loved it.......... Robert Inman. obert Inman is the author of three previous novels, Home Fires Burning, Old Dogs and Children, and Dairy Queen Days, as well as Coming Home, ...

Hats: I'm falling off my chair laughing about your remark "I wonder why a page of a book has not been discovered in the turkey." And I'm still smiling thinking of you smiling about Mr. Snow and Mr. Flake in Snowflake, AZ.

Marni

I sent her a card to an address that was given in WREX..That was in StroudsburgPA.I assume she was moved yet again....I will send her another to the above address..Thanks...I burned myself with boiling water about twenty five years ago..Unbelievably painful..And my burn was on a much smaller area than Mal's,...AND, I was so much younger..!

Thanks Guys. Mal is without her PC at the moment. She must feel like she has had her right hand cut off. I hope she has some books and a notebook. Her hands are ok from what I can gather. You are such kind people! I bought Mal a little something and will post it off by airmail when I get to the Post office at the end of the week.

Carolyn

I too sent Mal a card. Hope she has a quick recovery.

For all of you who like a giggle along with your Literature I will suggest "I Worry About My Neck" by Nora Ephron. Nora is one of four sisters who are writers and both parents are writers. Also all three of her husbands were writers. She wrote the Screen plays for....When Harry Met Sally.....Silkwood and Sleepless In Seattle. She writes about the aging process and is wickedly funny.

Judy

Judy Shernock, I am in the mood for humor. I will write the title down. I like the title.

I read a book recently called "Revenge of the Middle Aged Woman". It was a book which ended up to the satisfaction of any woman who had been dumped for a younger model. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was never in that position but know several women who were. I have forgotten the author but it was an English author.

Kiwi.....I too enjoyed that book"Revenge of The Middle Aged Woman". The author is Elizabeth Buchan and she has written other equally entertaining books............

One of my f2f book clubs will discuss Ephron's I Feel Bad About My Neck in January. I really do feel bad about MY neck, so I hope her humorous touch will make me feel better about it! Sue

Sue me too! I get three week headaches sometimes from my neck. I have arthritis in my neck.

Carolyn

I just love the new heading here ...now I know why I couldn't get online easily last night. Congratulations you Tech whizzes

Gumtree, I like the heading too especially the little green Sherlock Holmes. Thank you Techies.

owww that heading makes it so much easier to reach those discussions! Super!

I wonder if the trivia game in Tidbits could not be also mentionned in "Games and contests". I found it totally by chance and it is most enjoyable.

Add my voice to the kudoos for the new header. Just exactly the right touch of whimsy.

I did not like the Book "I Feel Bad About My Neck"....I felt it was demeaning to older women......I don't think I will be alone in this after some of you read it.........I didn't even finish it the further along I got......I did read over half though and could see it was all going to be the same ..............

I like Nora Ephron..but am not quite sure about the book.. Am going to a B&N today in the line of errands and will snatch a peek at it. My neck is just fine, but boy my hands are about 100..

BRAVO to the new header and thank you!

Nora Ephron, bless her, has lost none of her sharp wit and sense of humor since Heartburn (which was made into a film and, it turns out, autobiographical about the breakup of her marriage to Carl Bernstein), and Salad Days .

I agree that she does have a sharp wit.......there is a line in the book that says, "The honest truth it is sad to be over 60"......I don't believe that is true for a minute.......guess I just don't have a funny bone for this particular book......I am beginning to see ageism in everything and need to watch it............

Carolyn, my neck doesn't hurt, but I am hurt that it looks so much like a turkey's! I wear lots of turtlenecks. And Stephanie, my hands are looking like that, too! Sue

My hands look fine, but my neck is disgraceful. And I don't like turtlenecks because I get too hot in them while teaching. So I try not to look at my neck when I fix my hair or face. Fortunately I get to look at my hands a lot.

I think my neck and hands are pretty ugly too!

Carolyn

Quite some time ago No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency was discussed in Books & Literature. If you click on the link, you will get to the archived read-only discussion.

I just finished the audio version of In the Company of Special Ladies which is another by Alexander McCall Smith and is about the further adventures of the No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency.

I didn't read the first book and haven't read any of the others. But I found this audio book to be outstanding. I have a feeling if I had read the book I would have gotten stuck with the proununciation of the names and the language would have felt a little stilted. However, the reader made this the most delightful story. The language just sung to me. Now, maybe, I can read one of the other books and try to put her voice to the story and enjoy it just as much.

I don't often read audio books and was very surprised by my reaction to this one. This was so much fun. I haven't read the archived discussion so I don't know if people enjoyed the first book in the series or not. I just had to share my experience.

TURKEY NECK! Aaaaaggggghhhhh! I hate mine!! Oh, well, that's life.

This talk of turkeys reminds me - Connecticut's emu escapee that has been in the news so much lately DIED yesterday. It was finally captured, after weeks of freedom running around the CT woods. It was cornered and as people closed in to get it, he died of a HEART ATTACK! At least that's the story. Apparently, it's common for emus to die of heart attacks. They must be very sensitive. We're all sad.

Marjorie, I just finished "In the Company of Special Ladies" by Alexander McCall Smith. I am waiting for "Blue Shoes and Happiness."

I too love this heading it is so original besides being practical and pretty. Is that you Marjorie who worked on it?

It is hard to write comedy I think, but 'I worry about my neck' should be a good one if we go by 'Sleepless in Seatle which I just loved.

Marni, it's so sad about that Emu in CT. I wonder if we have any here in Canada? I never heard about them before here.

Hats, you do read a lot don't you? I wish my eyes would let me read as much as I used to.

Eloise, I have eye problems too. If I am reading, I always wear glasses. I wear glasses while eating my meals. I always hate books with tiny print. I have been happy with large print books too.

I have worn glasses since I was 6.. Then I had cataract surgery and one of the eyes was badly damaged, so I still wear glasses and can no longer wear contacts. I have to have prisms or I see double.. I will never ever forgive the eye surgeon who told me that cataract surgery was safer than crossing the street and then when I woke and could not see at all instantly told me it was my fault.. Took three different doctors to get a firm diagnosis and two yag laser treatment to restore partial sight. So.. my glasses are my best friend. That is my biggest fear,, not being able to read.

Stephanie, I have the same fear.

Now, ladies, older women have a beauty of their own. I can remember thinking my grandmother was beautiful, when she was all wrinkled. Her wrinkled hands were so soft, her eyes so bright, a loving light just poured out of her when she looked at you. 'Turkey neck' never entered my mind; just my beautiful Nana.

Babi

What's all this about an emu loose in the woods over there ? - The Emu is an Aussie icon - never heard of them having heart attacks...

When I look at my hands I see my father's hands...When I sat for a drawing class to sketch me, two of the students sketched my grandmother!!!!

MARJORIE, I couldn't agree more on Alexander McCall Smith. An enormously prolific man who - in my eyes at least - can do no wrong. He writes with warmth, charm, compassion and profound understanding of the human condition.

The # 1 Ladies' Detective Agency series was translated into umpteen languages and brought him international fame. BTW, Mma Ramotswe and the Agency are still going strong: volume # 8, The Good Husband of Zebra Drive , is out in Britain and will be published here in the spring.

McCall Smith, incredibly prolific and versatile, is working on two more series, one is the Isabel Dalhousie Mystery Series, the other 44 Scotland Street . The locale in both series is Edinburgh, Scotland.

These are the titles of the Isabel Dalhousie series - so far

1 - The Sunday Philosophy Club
2 - Friends, Lovers, Chocolate
3 - The Right Attitude to Rain

Fear not, these are not ponderous philosophical discussions, McCall Smith is never pompous.
Now to the other series.

The author Amy Tan gave a party for McCall Smith when he was on a promotional tour in San Francisco. There he spoke with Armistead Maupin, who had revived the (long abandoned) idea of the serialized novel in his extremely popular series "Tales of the City" in the San Francisco Chronicle.

After his return home McCall was interviewed about his California trip, he mentioned his conversation with Maupin and remarked what a pity it was that newspapers no longer ran serialzed novels, a tradition in the time of Dickens, Balzac, Flaubert and many American authors. He had unwittingly put down a challenge and The Scotsman took him up on it.

The result was 44 Scotland Street , published in 110 installments in the daily The Scotman , later published in book form.
In the preface to the book the author said that he "enjoyed writing this so much that (he) could not bear to say goodbye to the characters", and that The Scotsman had generously agreed that there would be a second volume.

That second volume is now out in paperback, its title is Espresso Tales . The author has not ruled out a third volume (too many loose ends left in volume 2 !)

Traude: Have you read 44 Scotland Street? I loved reading Maupin's serial when the Chronicle ran it. Like a soap, it kept me coming back each day.

there were, I think, four different series which ran in the SF Chronicle. I loved them...and then enjoyed reading the books afterwards, though I think he ran out of steam toward the end. The most memorable of them was the one that had the thread of Jonestown running through it. I never drive through Golden Gate park without thinking of that episode.

Did you ever read Maupin's "The Night Listener"? The creepiest part of that book was that it was based on a true event in Maupin's life.

I have the Night Listener in my book case.

Carolyn

Mrs. Sherlock , yes, I have read 44 Scotland Street, ditto for Espresso Tales; own them both. Small illustrations are interspersed in the text, and there's the facsimile of a map of central Edinburgh.

Ut's about a large house made into the equivalent of condos, the people who live there and mingle (or not).

In haste.

BaBi.....I feel the same way about my grandmothers and my older aunts.......somehow I never saw "turkey necks" etc but only the beauty in them .......that is the way I choose to see myself and other older women.......I saw a lady in the shopping center with the most gorgeous white hair , a smile on her face, and walking tall......just a wonderful looking woman........I'll bet she doesn't think it's sad to be 60..........what kind of thinking IS that......I guess I missed the whole point of Ms Ephron's book......just didn't resonate with me......... I am now reading Tender at The Bone by Ruth Reichl, the restaurant critic of "The New York Times".......It is written as memoir and has gotten very good reviews....... Also I have started "The Flame Trees of Thika, Memories of an African Childhood" by Elspeth Huxley........... These two books should keep me busy and QUIET for a few days......lol

Stephanie: I have you beat with the glasses. I had to start wearing them when I was 2 - after I had surgery for a crossed eye. But, what a terrible ordeal for you when your surgery went wrong! I always get nervous whenever anyone suggests eye surgery for my family. Both of my parents had cataract surgery, and I was more nervous than they were. Their surgery went OK, though. I dread the day when someone says it's my turn.

It's weird - I have better close-up vision today than I did 25 years ago - I can read small print very well. But my distance vision is shot - I can't read the signs on the road at night and it's pretty scary.

Gumtree: Emu farming is becoming popular in the US although I have yet to see emu meat in the grocery store or on a restaurant menu. Every once in awhile, we hear about an emu escaping. The emu that just died - it escaped weeks and weeks ago. People kept spotting it in their yards around the Simsbury, CT area and they'd take pictures which were shown on TV. We all thought it was a riot. No one could catch it because it would kick them. The emu really walloped a big man. We were cheering the emu on - quite exciting. But then it died suddenly when it was surrounded and trapped. They said next time they would use a tranquilizer gun.

I've seen emu in the grocery stores here sometimes, but haven't tried. It looks unappealing, but I'm told it's very healthy and tastes good.

Tigerlily: I wish I were so at peace with my aging appearance. I remember when I first noticed my turkey neck. Eeeeek. And then came the time when I noticed that men were not noticing me anymore - that appreciative glance from a man passing that could make me feel attractive - I'm just not seeing it anymore. I was kind of depressed when it hit me. But now I'm used to it. I think some people - me! - have to adjust to aging. I don't think I'm taking it very gracefully.

I do truly believe, though, that many other older women I see are beautiful. There are other things that are beautiful about older women, though, than younger women. To me, not the turkey neck, the varicose veins or hanging skin......but beautiful silver shiny hair, smiles, delicate skin, crinkles at the corners of the eyes and mouth. I love that.

Pat H: What do you bet emu "tastes like chicken!"

That's what they always say about strange meats, but I bet they don't say it about emu. It looks darker than beef or lamb; I bet it's pretty strong.

I don't miss the appreciative glances, because I never got them when I was young. Can't miss what you never had.

Pat H: I find that impossible to believe after seeing your beautiful pictures here on SeniorNet. You just didn't notice the glances.

Speaking of emu on the menu, I found an ostrich ragout recipe for my Latin class. It sounds good although I don't know if we could get all of the ingredients and it would take a long time! I wonder if it would work with emu? Aren't they similar? Gumtree: Do you know? Anyway, here's the recipe:

"For boiled ostrich [emu?]: pepper, mint, roast cumin, celery seed, dates or Jericho dates, honey, vinegar, passum, garum, a little oil. Put these in the pot and bring to the boil. Bind with amulum, pour over the pieces of ostrich in a serving dish and sprinkle with pepper. If you wish to cook the ostrich in the sauce, add alica."

"You may prefer to roast or fry your ostrich [emu?], rather than boil it. Whichever method you choose, this sauce goes with it well. For 500g ostrich [emu?] pieces, fried or boiled, you will need:

2 teaspoon flour 2 tablespoons olive oil 300ml passum (dessert wine) 1 tablespoon roast cumin seeds 1 teaspoon celery seeds 3 pitted candied dates 3 tablespoons garum or a 50g tin of anchovies 1 teaspoon peppercorns 2 tablespoons fresh chopped mint 1 teaspoon honey 3 tablespoons strong vinegar

Make a roux with the flour and 1 tablespoon of the olive oil, add the passum, and continue to stir until the sauce is smooth. Pound together in the following order: the cumin, celery seeds, dates, garum or anchovies, peppercorns, chopped mint, the remaining olive oil, the honey, and vinegar. Add this to the thickened wine sauce. Then stir in the ostrich [emu?] pieces and let them heat through in the sauce."

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/233472.html

A farmer north of us raises emu for meat and emu oil. He used to raise cattle.

Here is an interesting comparison of meats. Here

Wow, Patwest, the emu has so much less fat and calories than beef and it says emu tastes like beef. I'd love to see it in a store somewhere.

I have tasted ostrich meat here and had a thick delicious steak in pepper sauce. It is only by the end of the meal, when I praised the tender "beef" that I was told it was ostrich. After that I bought it a few times and my stew and other recipes for beef gave good results with the ostrich meat.

Emu is about the same.

Well, I for one would love to regularly read and discuss books by indigenous peoples from all over the world, voices not regularly heard to add some more spice to my life.

In addition to Lakota Woman, there is a wonderful book about one of the world's greatest living basket weaver, Julia Parker, the Kashia Pomo who weaves in the museum at Yosemite. There are some movies about the Lakota peoples that could accompany this book, also.

Julia Parker:

http://www.californiabaskets.com/juliaparker.html

I would love to read some Maori literature, as I love the few movies I've seen about the Maori, (although one I would hardly say I loved as it was so sad and harsh, Lee Tamahori's tragedy, Once Were Warriors, which is not really as much a Maori movie as folks, even the film makers claim it to be, but rather a brilliant modern human story, about a family growing up in poverty in public housing in the first world and trying to realize their identity).

I have read limited books on the Australian Aboriginals, and their culture is ancient and very foreign to my way of thinking, plus there are wonderful films that could be rented and watched along with a book.

There is a Mayan woman who is a famous writer, an African San writer, many books written by people who live in the lands of their ancestors, and write about their lives, or fiction about their lives, from this unique perspective.

Kleo

PS Hats, I absolutely thrive on your technical questions and comments in nonfiction discussions in particular. You really make me think, probably because you are so obviously widely and diversely read, and you keep me coming back for more. Thanks.

Well, in my opinion. They raise emus in my neighborhood. It can be pretty funny driving across the Altamont and seeing a couple of emus on the hill.

Kleo

Kleo, I feel the same way about you. We feed off one another. Each of us needs their fellow reader. You are very kind.

Marni, don't sell yourself short. You look great to me.

Emu: Inspired by these reports, I will buy emu the next time I see it in the store, and report back here. It helps to know that I just treat it like beef.

Maori literature: KleoP, there is a film that I have wanted to see for years. It's called "In Spring One Plants Alone". It was a very early effort by Vincent Ward, who also did "Map of the Human Heart" and "What Dreams May Come", as well as "The Navigator", a very special taste SciFi/fantasy film. I would watch anything he directed for his ability to present unforgettable visual images. "In Spring" deals with the the survival problems of an elderly Maori woman, dependent on her schizophrenic son to keep the farm going.

If anyone knows how I could get my hands on it, please let me know.

Hats, I'm always glad when I learn you are going to be part of a discussion I'm signing up for. Your comments are always to the point, and you often make everyone think more seriously about things.

PatH, thank you. I feel the same way about you. I always know your comments are well thought out. After reading any of your comments, I come away with more to think about too. Tell JoanK I look for her in discussions too. I especially love how she can "gently fly" in with a few funny words. Then, tell us seriously all about birds. You both are very special. I think all of us are learning and growing from each the words of each other at Books.

And what would we do without our Discussion Leaders???? I guess we would have to throw a wild and nonsensical party until they came back and organized us again. Because they are the ones who keep us with goals in mind, helping us prepare for the discussions with questions in mind, update us with information not in our book, help us to contain ourself when excitement and laughter overcome us, help us to stay at the ready until we reach land again. Marni, I am beginning to like ship language.

From week to week I can't remember what chapters to read. Thank goodness for a header.

Oh, a special thanks to The Blue Wiz and Igor. I never, ever want to know your real identity. Although, I would like to get inside that cave. Is the whole cave a dusty blue? If I got in there, I might end up coughing and coughing and end up with another allergy.

Is nothing sacred? - The Emu is our national bird and here you are swapping recipes for emu stew - what next - eagle pie?

Emu has been farmed here since the 1970s but only under stringent regulations and conditions. The meat is available but I've never heard anyone say they had tried it -kangaroo is more widely accepted as meat (mainly the tail) - will look for emu at the supermarket ...The oil is widely used as a skin conditioner and for the relief of conditions such as arthritis and joint pain but the jury is still out as to whether it is effective...The leather is rather nice - soft with intricate markings from the quills...I once bought an emu covered notebook as a gift.

A family of emus in the wild brings the tourists to a standstill - locals too!

Tigerlily3 : It's a long time since I heard anyone mention Elspeth Huxley's, Flame Trees of Thika - she writes of a time now long gone - hope you enjoy it - maybe you'll want to follow on and read more from her 'The Mottled Lizard' is one I remember

I loved Elspeths books. They were also a PBS series that I have the DVD for now. Both the books and the series were just wonderful. An Africa that has been gone a long long time ago Beryl Markham also wrote about that Africa and flying. She was wonderful. Saw an interview when she was old and she was still bright and funny and outrageous.. Africa in that period must have been great for the Brits, although possibly not for the natives.

Well yes.....the book I believe was written in the 50's........most interesting.....I saw it reviewed on a book blog I subscribe too...I like memoirs very much and this one is not going to disappoint me..I may follow up with "The Mottled Lizard".........I am never ever going to be able to read all the wonderful books i want to in this lifetime.......

I too have read Elspeth Huxley and enjoyed her books tremendously. I went through a stage of reading memoirs constantly for about a year. I discovered the memoirs of those people who never hit the headlines in their lifetime were far more enjoyable than those of the famous.

Carolyn

I have never read any books by Elspeth Huxley. Is this the author of The Flames of the Thika Tree? I will have to write her name on my library list.

Yes Hats.......she is the one.........

Tigerlily thank you.

It finially stopped raining. 11inches in 15 days.

imothy Egan, a Seattle-based correspondent, won the National Book Award in the nonfiction category for his book, "The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl."

Ahoy, Hats! I'm glad you're enjoying ship language! But, wait a minute. A wild and nonsensical party without me??!! I want to party! I think I'm starting to feel like Captain Bligh! I don't want to be captain anymore!

Oh, no, Gumtree! The emu your national bird and here we trying to find it in the grocery store! We truly did love that emu who escaped, though. We looked forward every night to emu sightings and video clips of him running around in freedom having a blast. Eagle pie! No, No!!!

Australia could be ending up the same way. Its said they are in the grip of a one thousand year drought.

...and how many years into the 1,000 year drought are they?

I thought people raised Emu for their eggs. You know, one egg feeds a family of twenty?

KANGAROO meat. Oh, say not so!

Bev- a thousand year drought means its a drought we have not seen the like of for 1000 years.

Yes, it is very dry here - heaven send us 11 inches in 15 days - or in 15 weeks - just a few drops would help.

Our wheatbelt farmers are really feeling the pinch, some areas have had years of drought and now after a middling season they have the locusts!

The emus will survive!

Gumtree- we heard that some farmers in the Outback have committed suicide because of the dreadful conditions.

Carolyn

A link to Our Readers' Book Picks has been added to the heading here.

Kiwilady - Yes, you're right - the level of suicide among farmers has increased dramatically during this long running drought. Some farmers are into their 5th year of proclaimed drought - let alone the number of dry years that have gone before. Some have just walked off their properties - others sell at low prices after generations of blood,sweat and tears to develop the land. In some areas the Govt has offered financial assistance but overall the picture is pretty bleak.

Fortunately, the resources (minerals) boom in the west is helping to keep the economy afloat - but that could go bust anytime.

Who said we were 'the lucky country'

Hats.. IT is The Flame Trees of Thika and the second is The Mottled Lizard. Both are memoirs of Elspeth Huxley as a child in Africa with her parents..I think you would love them..They are written with such love.

Stephanie, thank you for both titles. I love memoirs. One set in Africa is extra special. I am sure my library will have both books. I have just put "Flame Tree" on hold.

There are three books in Elspeth Huxley's series of Memoirs, The Flame Trees of Thika, The Mottled Lizard and another one. Unfortunately I can not only not find the third here but I can't find it on google with my extremely slow ISP but maybe somebody else can.

She also wrote a detective series, almost impossible to find today, but before Alexander McCall Smith:

“She has woven a complicated web of clue and counter-clue, clever enough to entrance and entangle even the most experienced detective fan. As a background for adventure, there are the sights and sounds of Kenya, wide skies above the miles of plain, green acacias and leafless thorns, splash of hippos in the pool below the camp, and at night the croaking of frogs beneath the enormous stars.” – Times Literary Supplement, 26th February 1938

They are:

Murder at Government House (1937)

Murder on Safari (1938)

Death of an Aryan (1939)

The Merry Hippo (1963)

She also wrote many books on the conservation of African Wildlife, she was a passionate advocate against poaching, etc. and the seminal biography of Scott of the Antarctic, in which she revealed (first, I think) that he never actually reached the Pole; it caused a GREAT stir, and also one on Florence Nightingale.

A great author.

I am also enjoying Bookmarked to Die, a book about a librarian sleuth, a mystery by Jo Deresky. I had never heard of this series until the NY Times started going on about this one and I really like it. Have any of you read her?

It's literate without being precious, and so far, I'm just in the 2nd chapter, there is NO mystery, so far, but she wakes up on the morning of her 42nd birthday, feeling not quite the thing and finds when she gets to work that a co worker is more than eager to snatch the credit and her job out from under her since she seems kind of foggy. I like it, a lot. The author was a librarian, and I am interested to find out if her portrayals (minus any murders, of course

) are accurate.

Ginny, thank you.

you are welcome! I am tearing the house apart now for the third book and the one Joan Roberts mentioned about the book written right before the sinking of the Titanic about a ship called the Titan which struck an iceberg and sank (whooooo! ahhahaa), can't find it either! Joan has a relative involved with that first book!

But I am lost and sunk forever in the new 25th Anniversary Edition DVD's of Brideshead!! OH my goodness, the best $38 I ever spent in my life. It's gorgeous, just gorgeous, a creme white and gold presentation, elegant 4 DVD's in beautiful slipcover, with an accompanying short booklet telling where each scene was shot, and all sorts of things about the locations I never knew.

Right now I'm on the first DVD with interviews showing about the life of Evelyn (pronounced EVE lyn) Waugh and showing film of an interview with him about his life, and interviews with both directors of the original film and Anthony Andrews and Jeremy Irons, shown then and today with the somewhat startling news Jeremy Irons was originally intended to play the son, and that Anthony Andrews who played the son was originally intended to be Charles (the part that Jeremy Irons wound up playing) but he wanted the part of the son and that Jeremy Irons was not sure he wanted to switch and take the part of Charles.

Lots on John Gielgud and Laurence Olivier, just an incredible feast for anybody, I can't put it down. And I'm not sure, having heard all this literary criticism, that I am capable OF discussing it! Hahahaa but the 25th anniversary package is just to die for, it's absolutely over the top, as sumptuous as the original movie and then some. I better put this in Books into Movies, too!

Ginny, I would love to see your Anniversary Edition of Brideshead. I bet it is beautiful. I have gone back to the library catalogue. My library does have the mysteries by Elsbeth Huxley. I like the titles of the mysteries.

Another book is titled "Forks and Hope." Is that the third book in the Flame Tree trilogy?

Nope that's not it, tearing house apart! hahahaa

I hate to admit it. I have never read a book about Viet Nam. I have seen books. Nothing has really caught my interest until I received this in my email. What do you think about it? Maybe this belongs in the Nonfiction discussion. Don't know.

Viet Nam Diary

Ginny, this is a nice exhibit. Have any of you seen the exhibit?

Louvre

Lenalu I want to read it too.

Thank you for the link. The description of Dang Thuy Tram's diary caused me to think of Anne Frank's Diary--and that was a comment I read later in the description of the book, "Last Night I Dreamed of Peace". I must read it.

I have added Elspeth Huxley to my list of authors I want to read. Quit tearing up your house--usually when I do that I do not find what I am looking for. Then when I am thinking about something else, it pops into my mind where the lost item is====SOMETIMES!

Hats, I don't understand how you responded to my post before I posted it.....To quote from my youngest dtr in a letter to her Daddy when he was in Vietnam: " Dear Daddy, Strange thang are happen!"

Ginny: Jo Dereske's books have delighted me for years. If you can, read them all. Starting from the first is good because there are changes in her life and the lives of other continuing characters. When I had the chance to visit "Bellehaven" (which is really Bellingham) I could pick out the landmarks she describes so vividly.

Ginny, have you found the book by Elsbeth Huxley?

reference

Huxley’s autobiographical trilogy comprised: Elspeth Huxley (1959) The Flame Trees of Thika: memories of an African childhood (London: Chatto & Windus); Elspeth Huxley (1982 reprint edition) The Mottled Lizard (London: Chatto & Windus; first published 1962); Elspeth Huxley (1968) Love among the Daughters (London: Chatto & Windus).

She published a further autobiographical work on Kenya: Out in the Midday Sun: my Kenya (Harmondsworth: Penguin, 1987; first published 1985). Huxley’s fictional writings on Africa are discussed in Githae-Mugo Visions of Africa; David Maughan-Brown (1985) Land, Freedom and Fiction: history and ideology in Kenya (London: Zed Books).

Gumtree - The weather is weird alright. Up here in Auckland this summer all we are getting is humidity, high winds and rain ( wish I could export it to you guys!) Then we have huge icebergs floated down from Antarctica on the coast of Dunedin - visible from the shore! The heli tourist operators have been running trips out to the bergs. They were landing on the largest one but they are now quickly beginning to melt as they head up the coast of NZ.

I have woken this morning to high winds again and rain. Its so warm and humid however I have the front door open with the locked security door in place and its only 5.40am. No air con in my house unfortunately.

Carolyn

Ginny, that's interesting about "Brideshead", because I thought Irons and Andrews were each exactly right for the part they played. I can't imagine them switched. In general, the casting for that movie is superb.

Nothing strange happened. I happened to be writing one message while you were writing your message. I changed my message to answer your message. I felt very happy you liked the book too.

Hats, thank you for the link about Viet Nam Diary. I'll be looking for it when it's published. Sue

Sue, your welcome.

I am just reading Mrs Lirriper by Charles Dickins. I have just begun it. I am having to get accustomed this style all over again. I have been reading mainly modern fiction for a while. I think children would be hard pressed to understand the prose nowdays and it would probably be a good idea to republish some of his stories in modern English for younger children ( abridged) and then it may give them a taste to try the real thing later on. I was reading Dickins at about eight or nine but I doubt children today would be able to do this because of the period English. My mum had recommended books from this period quite a lot because they were ones she had enjoyed as a child. We got them from the local lending library mostly but relatives had some of them in their private collections which I could borrow.

"Mrs. Lirriper"? By Charles Dickens? I've never even heard of that one, and I thought I had read them all. Is that a short story, perhaps?

Oh,oh....wait. You wrote Charles Dickins. Is that correct? Oh, I'm so confused. Please elaborate, CAROLYN.

Babi

I'm wondering if you are in WA? I note your e-mail address is bigpond.net and was wondering if that is Australia wide, or limited to WA (I have a couple of friends in WA who have bigpond addresses)

I meant Charles Dickens and yes I have never seen this before. Its an unusual book and you will see why if you get hold of it. Some of it is written by others like Elizabeth Gaskill. The cover says it is by Charles Dickens but others are involved in the way the book is collated. Its published by Hesperus Classics. This version was published in 2005.

What a coincidence! I just got a copy of Mrs. Lirriper - nice edition, too. I went into NYC with one of my daughters and down to the Strand (FABULOUS bookstore) by subway. I never do that alone - I am very comfortable with the DC Metro and the Toronto one but the NY subway is kind of daunting. Very noisy, everything moves so fast and far too many stairs. Never bothered me when I was younger! You could buy yourself into the poorhouse at the Strand. Hope it doesn't go the way of the other independent bookstores. I especially like the old second-hand bookstores but they are disappearing. There's always the Web but it's so nice to be able to leaf through a book.

Babi

Link to Mrs Lirriper -- http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/9722

I really hate abridged books. When I was a child, I got "Les Miserables" from the library, started reading it early Saturday morning, and finished it late at night. THEN, I noticed it was an abridged version. My father described some neat things that had been cut out of the version I read, but I knew I probably wouldn't go back and read the whole thing, even though I would have gladly read it intact the first time.

I think all abridged books should be required to wear a big scarlet letter "A" on their front cover.

I do admit that some authors are way too wordy, but abridgers don't always know what is inessential, and what is inessential for one person might be the point of the book for someone else.

Wow - such a lot of posts going in all sorts of directions - fun!

Ginny - you've managed to whet my appetite for Elspeth Huxley's detective yarns -and I rarely read detective stories - so far I've only read her African trilogy and didn't know she had written the Scott and Nightingale - will definitely look out the Scott.

BevSykes - Yes Bigpond is Aust wide and Yes I'm in WA - where are your friends? - and do they read ?

I hate abridged versions of anything and really don't think the classic authors - Dickens, Hugo, Hardy and the rest of them - are at all too wordy - their very wordiness (if that's a word) is part and parcel of the whole and it is the whole work which is the classic. Love them all...every word!

Marcie, thank you for more information about Elspeth Huxley.

I don't like abridged books either. I always wonder what part of the story have I missed. Remember the Reader's Digest abridged books? Maybe four books in one volume for a person to read. The books were or are very attractive too. I don't know if these books are still sold.

They apparently still exist, Hats.

Not long ago at my library I got a donation of about 45 of these Reader's Digest abridged books, each with 4 abridged books in them. No reader wanted them, they all prefer the long version.

In the end we sold them at the bazaar, with the profits going to WIZO voluntary organization.

Bubble, I don't care for abridged books. However, I certainly wouldn't turn the books down either. It's sad to see books just thrown in the trash. Forty-five books is a lot of books. That's wonderful about the profits going to a charitable organization.

I just discovered a good site with books about Africa. "The Flames of the Thika Tree" is listed on the site too. What does a Thika Tree look like?

Africa

This might be the Thika Tree

http://www.floridagardener.com/pom/Delonix.htm

or this african tulip tree

might be it

Bubble, thanks! Gorgeous!

The Flame Trees of Thika is something I read so long ago but it stayed in my memory, the only thing I remember about it is the title.

Is Cousin Bette still offered? because I found a hard bound copy last week and I will start reading it in French.

La Symphonie Pastorale by André Gide is one of my favorite books.

I saw Brideshead many times Ginny and I loved the musical score in that movie, it goes with the English scenery and decor.

Éloïse

Bubbles I have seen those gorgeous trees in bloom down around the Keys in Florida and they are indeed breathtaking......I am happy that the books of Elizabeth Huxley have dredged up all these good memories.....I am really enjoying the book, though things have changed dramatically in Africa since then of course.....

My goodness isn't this interesting, thank you Marcie for that link (what IS that?) and the titles of her books, you'd think she has dropped off the earth, it's impossible to find any titles!! It was the last one I read and I had never heard of the Daughters one!!!! Unless it had a different title when printed in America, wow, a new Huxley, must find it somewhere and read it. In fact I think it would be fun to reread them all, maybe we should do that?

Hats, I can't SEE the High Museum Louvre stuff because they require some new version of Shockwave I don't have! It would seem that a museum would try to consider those of older machines but they don't. I have tried to download the thing twice with no result!

The Brideshead continues to die for, I have that same edition, Mrs. Sherlock, and I agree, it's sumptuous, love those volumes anyway. Did you read the introduction first or did you plunge right in? I can never decide which to do. I've exhausted the first DVD already, including the overvoices of commentary (I'll say more in Books into Movies) (amazing that most of the cast actually never saw the movie until now), and am moving on to the second. I must say Julia has not aged particulaly well, but I should talk, at least she has no turkey neck like I do!

I had noted the Huxley third book and I also want the Scott one.. I have read the mysteries, liked them, but my personal favorites were always Flame Trees and Lizard.. One of those authors I would have loved to know. She led an interesting life.

Ginny: I read the intro and I think it helps me with the story, at least so far. Flame Trees, I saw the TV version and was enchanted, always meant to read the book(s) but haven't yet. Now would be a good time. I can't help thinking of Isak Dinesen when I think of the Africa portrayed so beautifully. did they know one another?

Ginny, Flame Tree by Elspeth Huxley is listed on the Africa link. I am not familiar with the name "Elspeth." It's a pretty name.

Link to Elspeth Huxley biography

Quote from that page:
Elspeth Huxley: a biography
C S Nicholls
HarperCollins, 497pp
"The Flame Trees of Thika -- her autobiographical novel of 1959--was one of a trio of books (the others being The Story of an African Farm and Out of Africa) that opened up the continent in ways that seemed strange to a readership raised..."

KAREN BLIXEN wrote Out of Africa. What a book!

The Story Of An African Farm was written by Olive Schreiner.

Abridged books: I agree with Pat, and others. I probably won't go back and re-read a book I've read in abridged version because I already know the high points, and I feel cheated when I discover that I haven't read the full book.

Gumtree: Friends are south, in Mt. Barker. Readers, but not for discussion, unfortunately (don't spend time on discussion boards). I fell in love w/WA when I was there 3 yrs ago.

Joan Roberts -- I just heard from my daughter who is moving to New York and they've taken a short-term sublet on E. 11th St., just around the corner from the Strand. I told them they had to stay there until I visit and walk to the Strand. That sounds like one fantastic book store -- 18 miles of books!

Strand Bookstore

Pedln--Strand Books sounds great. Did you look at their "Books by the Foot" section? I thought it was hilarious. For a fancy price they will decorate your room with books chosen to your specifications of binding type, subject matter, etc. Furniture stores around here sometimes have books in the display bookcases, and I usually get sidetracked looking at the titles. They are usually remarkably obscure--I can't imagine where they get them.

Regarding abridged books I was referring to doing them for children. There is no way most young people now, unless its set for them in English Literature, will read Dickens in their lifetime. Its just too far removed from the language they are used to. I was thinking of doing the abridged versions for kids 8-12. They can get the real thing in college.

Beautiful pictures, BUBBLE. The African tulip tree looks more like a flame, doesn't it.

Thanks for the link , PAT, but audio books are useless to me. Can't understand all that's being said unless I can read the lips!

Babi

Hats-

Thanks for the link to the Lovre Exhibit in Atlanta. The Site was done in an extremely tasteful and interesting manner.Enjoyed it greatly.

Judy

Judy, you are welcome! Pedln, I would love to go The Strand.

Interior Decorators.. When I had the used book store, I had a small list to call if hardbacks that had pretty binding, etc. came in. They love to use them for display..

WOW! What wouldn't I give to be able to spend a day at The Strand! A book I was interested in was even cheaper there than at Amazon. They don't seem to mail orders abroad. I suppose that, like in B&N, postage would be prohibitive.

STEPHANIE, I wonder if the Interior Decorators would like very old, crumbly classics in their original bindings? They might have to spray them with something to keep them from crumbling further, but they would lend a very 'antiquey' look.

Babi

Bubble, I think they do ship internationally. I've just been playing around there, to see what they have in Latin books.

Just put a book in your cart and then check it out, and it will bring up shipping options -- international surface mail. Then you can also access an FAQ which doesn't seem to be available from their home page.

18 miles of books can be a lot of fun, but it's not the whole story at The Strand. It's been a few years, but if my memory serves me correctly, that's the place with it's stock set out by author, in alphabetical order, not by subject. So you will be walking about three miles from A's book on something to M's book on the same subject. However, since you're always going the scenic route, with so many other fine books to look at along the way, there is no way of knowing what you'll come out of the store with.

I enjoyed stopping at the little place around the corner. Probably no longer there. The proprieter was elderly, and spent his days sitting at his desk, in the midst of the wildest dissaray of books, journals, prints, etc, that anyone could imagine. With dust and cobwebs everywhere. Well, this time he was nattering away with an old crony, who was at a loss about what to do with his time, just having been thrown out of the house by his wife.

Get yourself a place like this, the bookseller told him.

Naturally, I couldn't suppress a guffaw. But the old guy wasn't grabbed by the humor in the situation. And let me know as much a few minutes later, when I asked him if he had any old comics in one of the many boxes cluttering up his shop. I had my 12-year-old along, a heavy collector.

I did have some, he said. Not an hour ago a guy came in and took the whole box.

What is it they say in situations like this? Sadder and wiser?

The Strand: Isn't Foley's Books in London set out that way--by author?

Kiwi: Understand about the abridged version for kids. I feel so fortunate to have read books in unabridged version before movies, cartoons, comic books, etc. made it unlikely that today's kids will ever know that pleasure.

Pedin: My aunt owned a townhouse on E. 9th, just down the street from Washington Square. I wonder if that is near where your daughter is living. That's a great area. Unfortunately, my aunt passed on recently and her place was sold.

I just had an interesting experience. I saw that the next Masterpiece Theater production will be "Under the Greenwood Tree" by Thomas Hardy. So I checked online to see if it was available free online. Project Gutenberg has it in 2 versions - written and MP3 audio. The audio is computer-generated. It sounds very computer-generated - with no expression. I wonder how many books are now available online in audio for free. Has anyone listened to one of these?

Ther are some lovely used bookshops in Boston as well.We used to go to Brattle Books and also in Cambridge there is wonderful musty books everywhere sort of place.. I used to find antique engineering books for my older son.. He is an engineer, although now mostly an administrator. He still loves old books on math and engineering and I used to be able to find a lot of stuff Brattle used to cover the stair wall with Life magazine covers. Not sure how many, but oh me,it was fun to examine them. We have not been to NYC for years, but will put The Strand on my list of neat places..We sort of gave up on NYC.. last time we were there, it was just not the fun it used to be. When we were married 48 years ago, we used to go in all the time from Delaware, New Jersey,and Long Island.. Take the subway from Queens..and boom there you are. LOved the park and my boys as babies loved the small childrens zoo in the park.

Marni, we had a brief discussion of the PBS program, Under the Greenwood Tree, last April: Under the Greenwood Tree ~ PBS Masterpiece Theater ~ 04/06.

Oh, rats, I missed the discussion. Well, I'll watch the program and probably read the book.

I hunted for more audio books on Project Gutenberg and found they have some audio books that you can download onto an iPod. I know what I'm getting for Christmas!! A bigger iPod so I can load books onto it for the car. I'm giving my iPod nano to my son. I hope I can transfer the music from my old one onto the new one. (That's what I'll be doing on Christmas day - playing with my new toy.) A salesman at Target was telling me when he first tried to transfer songs from one iPod to another, he lost 4,000 songs!

but i know some of you are dog lovers, so i tho't i might get some help from you too.

Our 14 yr old chocolate lab died in June and we've been debating about getting another dog, we've had dogs all our lives. Yesterday a friend was told about a colleague whose rescued English setter had 10 pups. We've had a boxer/shepard, a great dane/black lab and a chocolate lab mix, so a long haired setter would be a completely different experience for us. Have any of you had a setter? What was your experience? Our other tho't was to get a rescued boxer, my husband has a soft spot for boxers, having had one as a teen-ager......HELP.......jean

The Setters have lots of energy and need long walks. Do you have the ability to provide the walks and a yard would be best for a setter. I would not like to see a setter confined to an apartment. The ones I have met have been escape artists if they do not get enough exercise.

My SIls mother used to breed and show boxers. My SIL says they are wonderful dogs but they do drool.

Carolyn

we have a house w/ a large yard and have a very strong cable that is 60 yds long that we always attached our dogs to w/ a very long lead sot they can play ball and run w/ the kids and still be safe. The yard is not conducive to fencing. Also, my husband walks everyday about 2-3 miles. If we got a boxer, we probably would not get a puppy. The setters of course would be puppies and that's a part of the decision-making.......LOL......jean

I must say that this heading really catches my eye. To me it is the best one I have ever seen and see them all.

Jean, I love dogs so would not be able to decide on which one to choose.

We had English setters, there are two kinds, I can't spell either one, one's the Lavarick or something and the kind we had was called the Llewellen (sp) Setter, I would not recommend them for somebody who had had a Lab (which is what we have now).

They are not particularly intelligent, are extremely vigorous, quite willful and pretty much are hunting dogs. They are extremely hard to train, I'm' not going to say stupid but they are really quite slow, and that long hair needs constant grooming.

My husband has had quite a few of them and says some of the males can be really hyper (I remember we had one once which jumped INTO a hot truck engine! They had the hood up to see what was wrong and he jumped right INTO the motor, that should tell you something).

I've been looking them up in a dog book and it says all sorts of positive things and then that they have been known to tunnel under fences or jump hedges and that reminds me ours used to climb the chain link fence, we could not keep him in, I would not recommend that breed.

On the other hand every boxer I have ever seen has had the unfortunate ...er...problem in the house...how can one say this delicately? Those of you who have had boxers know what I'm talking about. "Shaking the rose bush" as my grandmother used to say? hahahaa

Pat H, yes and it's interesting about Brideshead (I had forgotten "Bridey" entirely) because they go on quite a bit about how they were intended for the other parts, and then Jeremy Irons, however, says in his part why he wanted to play Charles. I agree with you the casting is wonderful, I'm actually hooked on the thing, watching it night and day, it's mesmerizing.

I was going to say the same as the above poster about the setter but was trying to put their habits a little more positively, Our pastors kids had a setter and although she was walked for miles she was an escape artist and she was really scatty. If anyone has owned an Afghan I would put the brains of a setter at just a little better. (Afghans are pretty dogs but no brainers!)

Ginny do you mean shaking the drool? My SIL told me their dogs shook their heads and the drool would go everywhere. They are lovely natured dogs boxers and intelligent too.

Carolyn

Anyone remember Barney Google & Snuffy Smith? Snuffy used to say "a purty face wiv naught behind it."

That has been my experience with setters. They are so lovely to look at, provided you can keep up the grooming, but can be quite neurotic or charmingly clueless. Also they get LOST!!!

A boxer sounds better. Me, I love a Shih tzu!

Boxers have a distinct problem of the kind that makes everyone look around to see who did that.. They are also hyper, stubborn and not terribly bright. They can climb like a cat. I had several when I was young, tried to obedience train them and never had much luck. Setters for the most part are hunting dogs and are not particularly good indoor dogs at all.. Some of the larger Spaniels.. Brittany,, make good house pets. Not so large, not such long hair and more placid..

After reading the above posts, you will understand why I prefer intelligent, clean, beautiful cats!

Babi

Some of the larger Spaniels.. Brittany.. make good house pets. Not so large, not such long hair and more placid.

...not if you could hear the rucus my bottlefed puppies are making at the moment! (Actually, this batch is calmer than most of the puppies I've raised, but when I read your message, they were all yelping and hearing that they were "more placid" made me laugh.)

Carolyn and Joan, I do know what you are saying and I remember another negative, (it's been a while since we had any English setters, and for good reason), and that is they are prone to skin disease, the purebreds, which makes all that lovely white hair quite a horror. I well remember my husbands constant ministrations. I really would avoid that breed.

Labs are so different.

Stephanie, again, right on on the boxer's strange habit of....er.....well making smells in the house, again a breed affliction apparently.

Don't get me wrong now, I love dogs, we have THREE giant big ones, all three are black Lab mixes (the best dogs in my opinion) two of them way over 100 pounds, but why not, if asked, tell it like it is? There MAY be exceptions, perhaps a female setter might be better, we've always had males. My husband had one female in his youth, and he said she was relatively quiet, for a setter. I like Labs.

They also, if they get loose, run off and do NOT come home, and you will find them happily ensconced with any neighbor.

Yes they are !! The very best...but,...they can be a bit much as puppies..

Putney, the problem is that they don't stop being puppies till they are about 5 years old. I'm speaking from experience!

I've just re-read Daphne Du Maurier's Frenchman's Creek and got myself in a state of tension and sadness, all over again. I'll never learn. I'm just about to start The Alchemist's Daughter, and just looking at the book sitting there, it has a sad stressful look about it too.

This morning ABC TV had a documentary on the Batavia wreck, and Mutiny. No matter how many times I hear that story, I still feel sick at heart. The blood that flowed there was incredible, and the violence was sickening, and so hard to imagine. They were excavating one of the burial sites of a family. I don't think I'll be able to face any dinner tonight!

PS: Looking to check something about the Batavia, I read this "the Mutineers became intoxicated with killing, and loved to experiment with different ways of dealing death and misery." I wonder what would make people become this sort of monster?

Jan,, The images of people who have veered so far from humanity to experiment with death.. Oh me.. Is that what happens. Do they lose their ability to understand what they are doing to another human. I think of Cambodia... and the horrors involved.. Now in Iraq. If they are not your exact image they are meant to die. How sad our world is sometimes.

Stephanie you are right. The deaths of all those Iraqi babies and children preys on my mind daily. It is a man made situation not the result of drought and famine.

I have much to be thankful for this year. As Robety Inman says in Captain Saturday, "I am vertical." Happy turkey day.

'I am vertical", I love that!

The worst part of the Batavia story is that the survivors were stranded on a small barren coral island, so the mutineers could pick them off at their leisure. It seems the blood excited them and accelerated the killing rate.More than 115 were killed in 3 months. Lots of books have been written about the Batavia. The low stone walls that the survivors built to hold back the killers are still sitting there untouched. I'd love to visit and see that link to our past.

Happy Thanksgiving for tomorrow. I've just been reading about turkeys

As if you didn't have enough to do with the holidays upon us, here comes the New York Times with its annual list of 100 Notable Books of the Year. I found I had read none, and was familiar with few others, although Anne Tyler's Digging to America is high on my "to read" list.

100 Notable Books of the Year

100 is not enough for you? Then go immediately to one of those 100 -- READING LIKE A WRITER: A Guide for People Who Love Books and for Those Who Want to Write Them by (appropriately named) Francine Prose -- and you will find another list that should be read immediately.

"No reader will revere all the writers Prose finds great, and some may carp at her list of 117 “Books to Be Read Immediately.” But “Reading Like a Writer” is sufficiently capacious — and encouraging — to allow for such differences of opinion. As her subtitle promises, Prose’s little guide will motivate “people who love books” and “those who want to write them” to be sensitive readers of their own and others’ work. And it will inspire them to practice the skills she teaches when reading books like “Middlemarch” and “Sense and Sensibility,” two of the many her exegesis made me hungry to reread."

This is an essay of mine published this week by one of my local newspapers. I don't know where else to post it, so I'm putting it here.

When I was a small boy attending Sunday School, I was taught that there were two major types of prayers -- prayers of petition and prayers of gratitude. There may be others but this is what I was taught.
A prayer of petition is asking for something -- please God, may I have this? I remember the story of the two boys arguing about the existence of God, one saying that He never answers any prayers. "Three times I have asked for a bicycle and I still don't have one." "He answered," replied his buddy. "He said NO."
The other type of prayer, I was taught, was a humble one, thanking Him for all the many blessings already received. In my practice as a Clinical Psychologist, it is common for me to ask a patient to write a Gratitude List. For some this may be difficult. According to author Eric Hoffer: "The hardest ariithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings."
However, it is absolutely amazing how long this list can become if one really digs into ones thoughts. To stimulate the patient's thinking, I often start him off by having him write "I am alive."
In a Research Project on Gratitude and Thanksgiving conducted by two psychologists, several hundred people were divided into three groups. The first group kept a daily diary in which they wrote events that occurred during the day. The second group recorded unpleasant experiences. The third group made a daily list of things for which they were grateful.
The third group was more likely to feel loved and reported a high level of alertness, enthusiasm, determination, optimism, and energy with less depression and stress. They exercised more regularly, were more likely to help others, and made more progress toward personal goals. These conclusions emphasize the strong relationship between gratitude and healing.
Gratitude is a substantial part of the world's major religions including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Hinduism. It is, indeed, life empowering. If you focus on what you "have," it will change the state of your consciousness, this leading to a finer quality of life. Throughout my childhood, a plaque which my mother had hung on the wall proclaimed: "Keep your face toward the sunshine and the shadows will fall behind." It did not say that there were no shadows. It merely recommended that I acknowledge that they were there and now move toward the sunshine.
Year after year that plaque hung there, to the point where I no longer read it. I just automatically absorbed its message. Sadly my mother passed away when I was nine years old but her legacy of positive thinking remained. My friends in this community know that my auto license plate is ALL-OK. It does not say that everything single thing is OK. It merely explains my philosophy to the reading public.
Last year my son passed away at the age of 53. That was a shadow. I have many fond memories of him. But my most recent memory is that of the medical care given him by the hospice in which he died. Although his ailment was a tumor on the brain, he was in no pain whatsoever and spent the end of his life in dignity. The compassion exhibited by the hospice was unbelievable This was the sunshine of which my mother's plaque spoke.
As Thanksgiving nears, I think of that adage "it is more blessed to give than to receive." In the process of giving, is it necessary to receive? Author Mavis Gallant, in one of her books questions the appeal about cats. "They don't care if you like them. They haven't the slightest notion of gratitude and they never pretend. They take what you have to offer and away they go." My cat, Cookie, I beg to state, is much more grateful.
In my earlier years I visualized my handing something to someone and someone handing something to me. I saw it as two separate actions. I give, then I receive. But my thinking has changed. I now see it as one unified concept. Giving is receiving. One can not be more blessed than the other because they are one and the same. It is impossible to give without receiving. I am a volunteer in numerous community, state-wide and nation-wide organizations. I spend much time helping them in one way or another and one could almost say that I do so because I am selfish. I receive more than I give.
At twelve-step meetings, be they AA or for any other addiction, "gratitude" is a common topic. People recovering from this insidious disease quickly learn that self-centeredness will often lead them right back to the immediate self-gratification of drug use. Instead of being grateful for the many possessions they already have, both material and intangible, their self-centeredness causes them to ask for more and more and more. As most every well-read person knows these days, addiction is a mental, emotional, and spiritual as well as physical disease.
Let us ask ourselves how we are approaching this year's Thanksgiving. What does that word bring to our mind? Food? Family? Alcohol? Disputes? Love? Children? Church? Did the thought of gratitude enter in? The headlines will still be screaming death and destruction. Will we be grateful for anything? Every experience -- even pain, frustration, anger, fear, disappointment, sadness -- is a learning experience.

Said Cicero, the great Roman philosopher: "Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues but the parent of all the others." My years have ever so gradually taught me acceptance and, following that, gratitude for the minute bit of wisdom I may have gained.

Thanks for that list Pedlin. I have read only one of those books. I read "Suite Française". I thought it was a really good book.

I would like to read "Reading Like a Writer" and maybe the biography of Flaubert.

Joan Grimes

Much to ponder there, Robby. Thank you! Bubble

Robby: May I share this essay with others? It deserves wider distribution. Perhaps you might set up a blog? Thank you.

A very timely essay, Robby. Especially the awareness that in giving, one also receives. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Babi

Thanks for sharing your essay with us Robby!

You were posting it at the same time that I was posting my thanks to Pedlin for the link. So I did not see it at first. I had to go back and read it. I am glad that I did not miss it.

Joan Grimes

Do whatever you want to do with my essay, folks. It's my gift to everyone. And in so giving, I am receiving.

Robby

Robby, You have share your thoughts in such a gracious way and they are what I thought you to be. I to would like to share your essay with others especialy in the graditude discussion on s/n if you don't mind and would put it in just as you have here with your name as it would be such a blessing for many more from all around the world.

Ginger

Happy Thanksgiving. As always, we have such a lot of thinkgs to be grateful for. We have one of them with us just now, since our Granddaughter is staying in the coach with us. Today she will rejoin her parents as well we for dinner and fellowship.

Thank you, Robby.

I've just printed out your essay and will take it to our family Thanksgiving dinner for all to read. I know they will appreciate it. You say things that the rest of us may feel and not be able to express so eloquently!

Thank you Pedln and Robby.

Thank you, thank you, Robby, for posting that. You have given us much to mull over and nourish.

Fran

Like others here, your post MADE my Gratitude Day 2006. Thank you, Sir!

I'm rarely online this Autumn...so finding your post must have had the Master's Hand guiding me to it.

I intend to share your essay (with your and SN credits, natch) with a few select email friends who don't do message boards, but who I know would like to read this "pearl" too.

A further temptation for me is to send same to my local small-town newspaper...and maybe to two trade newspapers who solicit human-interest contributions. On THIS tho, you might wish to email me not to do that. My next trade-newspaper deadline for inputs is Dec 1.

If others I send it to do publish your essay, I'd tell you...and then any subsequent "reader-comments."

Again, Robert...you've stirred me to straighter thoughts on this Day. Thank you!

This should be told/read/explained to all children, grands. nephews, etc who are still in school.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1019/p15s01-legn.html

TG that there are such initiatives.

Bubble, Your link is so true, Thanks for posting it.

I think someone brought up the topic about reading themes. I really like this site.

Reading Themes

We have reading themes on Senior Books. We have: The Houseboat, Reading Around the World and Great Books.

While visiting my sister and BIL during Thanksgiving, I picked up his new Smithsonian magazine. There is a great article there, written by Tony Hillerman, about his home near Albuquerque, NM. I think Hillerman fans would enjoy reading it. Sue

Thanks, Sue. I'm a Hillerman fan, -- attended an Elderhostel on Hillerman's books, last spring in Farmington, NM I'll look for the magazine at the library.

Just read this book this afternoon (a short, easy ready). Mitch Albom has done it again. Highly recommended.

I love this one. Now I am going back to read "Five People in Heaven."

I am thinking if that's the November issue then that article is online, Ginger has the link and she posted it in the Rembrandt discussion. They appear to run the Online version of the Smithsonian a month behind the new one (which is Paul Theroux on Geese, and is wonderful). AND Rembrandt at 400 a giant article, I love the Smithsonian, super magazine!

Did you all have a lovely holiday? I sure did, what all did you do? I did nothing but self indulgence, did not exercise one bit, just let self go, cooked too much ate too much, enjoyed family, stayed in bed till the late (for me) morning about 8, read tons of books, watched tons of DVD's, sheer escapism.

I finished the Bookmarked to die by Jo Deretsky and immediately hounded the stores for her earlier ones to NO luck! I very much enjoyed it, it reminded me of Jane our Libarian here in many ways!

Pedln~! Reality check! When I saw your list of NY Times Notable Books I thought whoooeee I bet I have read plenty of them! ER............ ah....................oops! Not the first one! What does that mean, it's scary? We're always on the cutting edge here!! Always!

I am escaping in my reading at the moment, reading about Walt Disney and the latest Agatha Raisin by MC Beaton, which also has a photo of her in the back jacket, have never seen her before, she's very attractive. This one is almost in outline, not like her others, very abrupt, like an overzealous editor took it all out, it's called something like Love Lies and Liquor and is the latest in her detective series. One thing about it, it's a very fast read, you're in chapter 4 before you look up. Agatha and her former husband James have gone for a brief holiday to Snoth hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa and it's not as he remembered it.

I have been lazing half the day reading in the mornings. I had bought a feather bed, have always been one of those people who have to sleep on a board, literally, put boards under the firmest matress? Forget that, am now in my Princess and the Pea mode, now over that matress (and boards) I am floating on a cloud in a feather bed, long long LONG overdue! That is SOME experience.

Weather was beautiful, lovely lovely holiday. I hope each of you had some fun relaxing moments. What did you do to relax? I know you did not go into the stores on Friday to relax! Folks have their Christmas decorations up already, however, caroling in the stores, can't enjoy the moment for the pressure of buy this, be ready to do that, come running right this minute from 4 am till 9 am and get 10 percent off! I'm feeling a distinct need to cut back. Drastically.

I do like our SeniorNet Book initiatives, however, have written the local prison librarian to ask what books are particularly on the lists of the two prisons she's librarian of, so as not to forget them this holdiay, no one more forgotten, I think, and who can resist the Native American Children's Book Project? A new generation of readers! Give a child the gift of reading and he'll thank you all his life. Am shipping my stuff tomorrow, it's a good thing.

B&N in their stores has also taken up a project, in that they have selected something like 4 worthy children's homes and hospitals, etc., and ask if you'd care to donate a book to them. The books are on shelves behind the counters so you can't leaf thru them, but I didn't see any Dr. Seuss and asked about the Grinch, did they have it, and they immediately ran and got several Seuss.

One of the women working there was a retired reading teacher and she said, "oh people say oh simplistic Dr. Seuss but let me tell you, once you start reading it, they know the story somewhat and that familiarity makes them all the more interested." I found that interesting, not having taught reading, myself.

Anyway, how was your holiday? Any disasters? I had everything set to go, everything calm and under control, the stuffing this year quite creative, but SOMEBODY turned the oven off (husband denies coming within 10 feet of stove) (my husband smoked a turkey and a ham outside) and you want to talk about...er...moist stuffing? I mean when is stuffing TOO moist? Nearly burned the house down with the broiler trying to get the stuffing less....RAW? Burned the pecan pies, you needed a pile driver to cut a piece but other than THAT...er....

I thought we'd all die but we didn't, but dinner much delayed hahahaa

So now for holiday reading, and escape from the relentless stores and ads, what sorts of things do you prefer? I've got several Christmas Mysteries lined up, some of them quite old, but which I have not read, or which I'll reread, like Agatha Christie's Poirot Christmas Mystery and Margaret Maron's Corpus Christmas, I like to read something a little sour but with redeeming value at Christmas. Like Scrooge.

Didn't some of you say Stephen King's Lisey's Story was NOT about horror?

He has that one and Cell out which supposedly is terribly violent. King writes a column for Entertainment Magazine and it's searing, have any of you read it? I'd love to get him in here one time, his column on Nancy Grace of CNN was scathing, I am not sure how she managed to live thru it. I bet you he'd come, he's that kind of person, maybe if we can not be scared to death by the first chapter of Lisey's Story we could invite him. His book On Writing is just one of the best books I ever read. He's MUCH underrated, I think.

For the first time we baked our turkey in a Reynolds wrap bag. A friend suggested it. The turkey is delicious. Usually, we have the whole family over to our house. This is the first time we did whatever we wanted to do. I didn't get any reading done that day.

HMM! I'm not sure I'd want an author who writes a "searing" column visiting SN, GINNY. If he likes to be scathing, think of what he could do and say here. Some of our people might not be as hardy as Nancy Grace.

Babi

Well that's true, too, apparently however Nancy G, who herself is somewhat...er....whatnot, caused by her own scathingness in confrontation the death of another person or so he said. He's not the only author who feels that way about her either, apparently. Maybe you're right and we'd best let sleeping dogs lie, not that he'd come anyway!! I really admire him, and his talent, tho.

Ginny I have fibromyalgia and I tried a bed like the one my sis bought (she also has fibromyalgia) its called a Pillowtop bed. It was wonderful. Lying on a normal orthopaedic bed leaves me feeling like I have been beaten with a club all over. I will seriously need to think about buying one of these beds. They are expensive over $1000 for a king size single bed. While we were at the bed shop we saw beds costing up to $16,000. Usually I have to get out of my bed because of the pain and go to the sofa half way through the night. My bed is not a hard bed its one of the softer orthopaedic types but no good for people like me. When I am in my bed its like I am lying on a million peas.

Carolyn

Stephen King has a corgi as do we ( actually we have two), so would love to be in a discussion with him, but alas.. With the exception of Shawshank Redemption, which I loved, I mostly cant read him.. Too too scary.. and no heros.. We had a relaxing trip in the coach. Saw both sons and wifes and grandchildren. One daughter in law did Thanksgiving and the other will do Christmas.. I think I did splendidly in convincing the family that I just should not do all of that any more.. I love being the person who just sits and others cook. I cooked my whole entire life and still do, but let the holidays to others.. However last night we went to a really fun Amish restaurant in Sarasota , Fl.. Yoders.. and my dessert.. Oh my, I am still working on it, since it was too big to eat all at once.. CHOCOLATE PECAN PIE.. Now there is a calorie that will come back and bite me, but oh me it is good.

Whooee Stephanie, those Amish are mighty good cooks.

I'm like John Grisham in that I can't stand to watch Nancy Grace either. And I seldom read Stephen King. But I'm grateful for the alerts from Ginny and Babi about Stephen King's article. Just now found it on the net, and it was certainly worth reading, and I think he is absolutely right. She (NG) deserved to be seared.

I was asked to make a chocolate pecan pie for Thanksgiving, plus mashed potatoes and an appetizer. Boy, that pie was good! Luckily, I made an extra one for us at home. I'm roasting my own turkey right now. I always do that after Thanksgiving because we like to have leftovers at home. Yumm!

The Hillerman article is in the "Smithsonian" magazine with Theroux's article on geese. I have no idea about the on-line version. Sue

Oh YES!! I do see it now, page 18!! Yes, and they are so right in that article, we went to the ACL National Convention there last year (Teachers of Latin and Greek at all levels) and stayed a week and went all OVER that area.

My friend who went with me is originally from Albuquerque and I'm telling you, I love that area. Every morning we had a view of the mountains and hot air balloons were coming over, just to die for, we went everywhere the article talks about, and we also went up and visited the pueblo where the child we sponsor lives. It's such a land of contrasts, wonderful article, thank you for pointing it out, Sue!! That magazine is so full of wonders it's hard to find anything, I love it!

Carolyn, what sort of bed is that you're talking about, is it soft? Or?

Hats, that was interesting on the Theme Reading and you are so right, we've got Themes a Bursting here!

Pedln, I did not realize that article was on the internet, but it's Grisham, you're right, I had not heard of that incident, before this notice.

Marni, I wish I had made that chocolate pecan pie, they always turn out beautifully and so good! I don't know what it IS about regular pecan pies but I can burn them with the best of them, that's a hard pie to get right, for me, for some reason.

The Smithsonian also has an interesting article, at the end, an op ed piece about why we as normal human beings like to attach ourselves to the famous and our claim to fame often being whom we rode up in the elevator with. And we all know somebody (and I am included in that) who has a "famous person sighting/ meeting" story), but I am not from the Midwest. I am not sure however, that he's serious, especially in his claim about Garrison Keillor....if you read it what did you think?

Is it tongue in cheek?

He says "I am from the Midwest. Does it show? People from the Midwest need to prove their existence by attaching themselves to famous people, perhaps even more than the rest of America."

Now as my oldest likes to say "logic would dictate" that's nuts, people in one area are not different from any other. He makes the statement that "we're the people waving in the background during interviews with Diane Sawyer or Matt Lauer." But when they ask those people where they're from, it's usually NOT the midwest, is it?

I smell a rat, a humorous one but...and this does not happen much to me, for once I have the uncomfortable feeling that I've missed the "joke," and it is NOT a good feeling, feeling stupid. If you read it what do you think?

CAROLYN, I often spend part of my night on the sofa, too. Not from fibromyalgia (and my sympathies on that one), but from arthritis in my lower back. The pillowtop bed sounds lovely. However, I think it's the support my back gets from sleeping with my back against the back of the couch that makes the difference for me. I think the first thing I should try is a long pillow behind my back in bed.

GINNY, Congatulations. Your eldest must be a clear-headed, logical, thinking type. Isn't it true, tho', that while 'logic would dictate', emotions often ignore logic? And, IMO, a clever writer knows perfectly well that appealing to emotions generally sells better than appealing to the logic.

Babi

I've slept either in a recliner or on the couch for years. Whenever I decide to try and sleep in a bed, I always regret it.

Babi: I've got the arthritis in my lower back, too. You know what is very helpful? A hot water bottle that you lean against as you lounge on the sofa. My doctor told me to get one and it really feels good and relaxes everything.

also have fibromyalgia and sleep on a feather bed. It does feel wonderful to the touch and when i first get into bed, but i sometimes think letting my muscles sink into the feather bed leaves me more stiff in the morning.

Our son is a coach at Montana State and they are playing Appalachian State in the national play-offs this Sat. Are any of you in the Charlotte/Tenn area, near Boone, NC? What is the weather supposed to be on Sat? I know this is off the subject but you all are such good resources on so many things, i feel comfortable asking.....I have a feeling it's going to be really cold, not good for my fibro......jean

Jean, Mary Z. has mentioned that a cold front with rain is approaching Chattanooga and will be in that area before the weekend. We're looking at the same front to hit here in East Central Alabama late Wednesday and early Thursday and be cold on Friday-Sunday. Check out the Tennessee folder and ask there--or better yet look up the 10 day forecast for Boone, NC, on the weather channel web site. Sue

Lol I have the hot water bottle too! Ginny the bed is like a feather bed but its not. Its so soft but it does keep your body in the right conformation. Oh to have a pillow top bed! Its like a bed with a sofa feel. If I had one I would not be getting up in the wee small hrs and heading for the sofa. Honest lying on an ordinary mattress is like I have been subjected to a beating. When I am having a flare even a bra can feel like a thousand bees stinging my skin. Its hard to describe the fibropain really. When I had to have an ECG the little plastic suction caps felt like everyone had a dozen bees attached to them and they were stinging my skin. I had to lie there with this pain for 20 mins.! That is how tender ones skin is when you are in a flare.

carolyn

Did anyone see Pres. Bush save the turkey this year? Every year he gives a turkey amnesty from being killed for a turkey dinner. I have the funniest picture that was in the Hartford Courant several years ago when the president was saving the turkey. I just found it! I laugh whenever I look at it. I used to keep a print of it on my refrigerator.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l253/marni_04/Bushandturkey.jpg

MARNI, why didn't I think of that? I have a hot water bottle stuck in a bathroom drawer,...and there it lies forgotten! I do have some of those heat patches to use when the lower back muscles tighten up to where I can hardly walk. But the hot water bottle would help loosen those arthritic joints, too. (So would a heated pool, but alas, I don't have one of those.)

Babi

Babi and kiwilady: I wouldn't have thought of the hot water bottle myself. I didn't even know they were still made! My doctor suggested it - said it worked better than heating pads because it was moist heat. It really helps!

Marni the hot water bottle and I have been very intimate for about 9 years now. Its one of the things that makes my life bearable! Crikey what subjects we get on to here in our book nook!

Carolyn

I know it sounds crazy but it does work - spray WD-40 on your affected areas - my good friend has arthritis - has had two knees replaced over the years - she tried it on her hip and fingers and the pain goes away for a few hours as well she can walk without the aid of her walker.

WD-40 is mostly a fish oil and is safe to spray on your body.

How fascinating. I'll have to try it!

Be careful with WD-40

http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/97/5/1265

Marni, I loved the picture. Gonna send it to a raft of folk, so funny. Thanks for sharing.

Marni, I love the look on the face of President Bush. Pres. Bush looks like he already swallowed a slice of turkey.

Bubble, thank you for the article with the warning.

Isn't it interesting how many of us seem to have the Early Morning Couch Syndrome? (that is BFB: before feather bed in my case) hahahaa I had no idea! Good thing to have this place to find out one is more normal than one realized, one is just ageing. Of course one might guess that from the way one cries at a commmercial about an ornament for an old time radio? haahahaa

Jeepers!!

I saw Queen yesterday with Helen Mirren, it's quite interesting, I do think the casting was miserable. I loved Helen Mirren and the guy who played Prince PHILIP (the same guy who was the farmer in Babe) they were spectacular but the guy playing Prince Charles was awful, looked nothing like him at all (and there have been many others on TV, actors, who have) and the woman playing the Queen Mother was an awful mess. I can't imagine what they were thinking of.

But Mirren is dazzling, strangely enough Princess Diana herself appearing in film shots is more dazzling than any of them.

The Books for Native American Children seems to be going splendidly and now you can use a gift card, that's lovely, from B&N online, and they can pick out their own books.

I went yesterday into the wilds of B&N and came out with a sore arm, so many good books there!!

Oh boy, a roaring fire, a snowfall and a good book to look forward to! What are you reading?

I'm enjoying the latest MC Beaton, her Agatha Raisin latest is good, very quick read; am almost through.

We're talking over "house" books in the Houseboat discussion below this one, (look in the heading for the tiny bookstack (that's our lucky bookstack in the Books) and find the link that says Books Main Page, do come on down and throw your oar in, we'll begin nominating and discussing the possibilities next month, just the thing. I love all our discussions there, pro and con about the contenders, come on down and put YOUR oar in!

What are you reading?!?

Thanks for the warning, BUBBLE. I notice that lady was spraying in her neck and shoulder area, which would mean she was breathing in the spray. I would suppose it would be much less likely to happen if you were spraying feet or lower back. At least, thanks to you, anyone who wants to try it can take measures to avoid inhaling the spray.

GINNY, was oen of those Princes in your critique of 'Queen' by any chance Prince Phillip? You mentioned the guy who played Prince Charles as one you liked and the one you didn't like.

Babi

winter storm headed our way in Missour.....have loaded up on library books and am now headed to the grocery for a nice bone in ham.....this I shall bake and will have sandwiches, pots of beans, casserols etc. and be snuggled in !

Just finished Brideshead Revisited. Starting Snow and partway into Tripwire by Lee Child. Annoyed by his description of Preacher's childhood as the son of a Marine officer based all over the world and his career in the Army sending him to some of the same bases. Marine ? Army! Gave up on Ahab's Wife. Got the new Rita Mae Brown in the wings. More of the Morland Dynasty, some of Waugh's satires, Japanese Maples, a couple of "Ship" book by Anne McCaffrey, etc. PLUS two exciting Shakespeare books: The Shakespear Wars, and The Age of Shakespeare. Last, but not least, Ray Suarez' book, The Holy Vote.

It's snowing here and I've tried to stock up since driving in the snow is something I can't do yet.

As hard as I find summer in Texas, at this time of year I'm glad I don't live up North, TIGERLILY. We're having some more late fall warm days here, and there are still roses and vines blooming. Enjoy your books and ham, and keep warm.

Babi

I just finished "Immaculate deception" by Iain Pears. It's a great mystery involving the theft of a famous painting. This is my first book by this author. I want to read more of his books starting with the first one.

Iain Pears

I am trying my hand at a new genre, fantasy and SciFi. This book really caught my interest yesterday. What if we became incapable of populating the earth??? Isn't that interesting just to think about?

Children of Men by P.D. James.

I haven't read this one yet. It's on my reading list.

Mrs. Sherlock, thank you for the website. Babi, all of his titles sound wonderful, I think. Babi, his name is not spelled like the usual Ian. His first name is spelled "Iain."

That website was good.

If you have ever worked with motors in a moist environment WD-40 is a must. The fumes are very toxic. I speak with personal experience.

Hats,
I have in my library a lot of P.D. James and they are all detective stories - quite good ones too. This is a first for me that she wrote an anticipation tale. I must see if I can find it here! Thanks for the tip.

If you can, try her regular novels. They are very enjoyable and easy to read. Her descriptions show the settings quite clearly.

Patwest,
I had never heard of WD-40 and that is why I went on a search. Nowhere did I see fish oil mentionned either. It sounded intriguing to use fish oil externally.

It's amazing the things one finds while looking for something else, but this popped up while I was looking for a "house" book, "The House of Dries Dear."

This is a June, 2000 interview with Jabari Asim, (current? former?) children's book editor of the Washington Post Book World. Asim shares childhood reading experiences and answers readers' questions about motivating children away from candy-coated literature and video games. Since so many of us are involved in buying books for children at this time of year, I thought you might find it interesting and helpful.

Children and Books

When Ginny said the role of Prince Philip was played by the man who played the farmer in Babe, it reminded me - my sister-in-law went to high school with him. Same class at Darien HS in CT - James Cromwell. I got such a kick out of that because I loved him in Babe. He's a good villain, too. Anyone see him in L.A. Confidential?

I love PD James and other English mystery writers. The books are so classy aren't they. Who watches Midsomer Murders? Ruth and I love the movies.

carolyn

Hats, I have Children of Men also, but haven't yet gotten around to reading it. Maybe this will inspire me. I am very fond of her detective stories, and have read all but the latest one.

Carolyn, I loved Midsommer Murders when they were on PBS here, but haven't seen any in a long time. Fortunately Netflix has 36 of them, so I've put two of the earliest on my que. Now to place them strategically. Even if I've seen them, I never seem to remember who done it -- which may or may not be a good thing.

Ruth and I over the last few years have watched each episode several times. We still enjoy them.

carolyn

I've been having Midsomer withdrawals for the last few weeks. They should have them on now, as it's officially summer tomorrow. A bit strange seeing it was 38 degrees yesterday. What a Spring.

PatH, I haven't read P.D. James mysteries yet. Should I start at the beginning and read the first one? KiwiLady I am glad to hear you like P.D. James too. I can't wait to try a detective story by her.

Children of Men is excellent. But then I think all of P.D. James is..I loved Ahabs wife and have another of her books in my way too large stack to read. I am now working on Running with Scissors.. But I am not sure the book will make it. Every hour on the hour, I throw it down and bounce off. It says Memoir, but I suspect fiction for sure. The man really really is weird. Granted his family was way past strange.. Why would he be so passive? Grrrrr.

I am often disappointed at being unable to watch one of the British TV videos, as so many are not closed captioned. "Midsomer Murders" was one of them. "Sandbaggers" was another. Ah, well...can't win them all.

Babi

Well shoot, Babi, bearer of bad news. PBS must have added the captioning for those on TV. But thanks for the heads-up. I've deleted the two I had added to my Netflix que.

You're right about some of the British films not having captioning, although many do provide it. Aren't we grateful for the ADA in this country.

We have captioning on teletext for most of our movies here. Fortunately at this time I do not need teletext as my TV is not teletext enabled!

I'm so excited. The library called this evening to say my book Cochrane had arrived. I picked it up right away and have started it. THANK YOU, PAT H, FOR RECOMMENDING IT!!! It's already so good!!! It's about Thomas Cochrane, the British naval captain that Patrick O'Brian based Jack Aubrey on. Yay!!

Hats--P. D. James' stories are uneven in quality. I wouldn't start with the first one, which I remember as being rather dry. Some of my favorites are "An Unsuitable Job for a Woman", which introduces his female detective, Cordelia Grey, "A Taste for Death", and "Devices and Desires". Although the life of the main detective, Adam Dalgliesh, progresses in the course of the stories, it isn't important to read them in order. If you do read "Children of Men", you should talk about it in the Science Fiction site. I will do the same.

I am constantly amazed at how many books you read. I'm sure I have at least as much time available as you do, since I have a lot, but I don't seem to read nearly as much.

Pat H thank you for telling me. I might have gotten discouraged with her first books. I don't sleep well. So, I take advantage of night hours to read. I think most of us read about the same amount of books. It's just that all are reading something different.

Hats, you seem to read as I used to, ten years ago. Now I spend much too many hours on the computer. I am too addicted to it!

Have you read Jodi Picoult? The one I am reading is so good that I limit myself to a chapter a day: I don't want it to finish and I enjoy the ideas and the way she writes.

Bubble, I love Jodi Picoult. I love "The Plain Truth," and "My Sister's Keeper" by Jodi Picoult. She is really a great writer on issues we face in everyday life. I am glad you like her too. I read slower now. It's like I am trying to catch the meaning in every word. The Plain Truth is about an Amish family.

All those who enjoy reading might want to click onto THE STORY OF CIVILIZATION. We are just beginning to read about the Renaissance.

Robby

Robby, I am lurking there.

Now is a really good time to try "The Story of Civilization', because it's a new start--a new volume, on a new, and very interesting, part of history. You don't need to know anything about what went before; you can just jump straight in. You don't need to have the book, either. Robby types in each section as needed.

Pat H, thanks for the information about "The Story of Civilization."

Robby, I'm going to try to find the time to lurk. They're archived, too, aren't they? Now that I'm really digging Latin, I'm kicking myself for having missed discussions about the Romans.

P.D. James -- this has been bugging me since she was recently mentioned. Was one of her books about power and control in a publishing house? It was also on TV, showing the principals traveling to work on a launch on the Thames. I've read it, I've seen it, and can't remember title or author, but James might be right.

Pedln--P. D. James wrote at least 2 mysteries about power struggles in publishing houses. I suspect the one you mean is "Original Sin", but can't find my copy to check. It and a number of others were televised with Roy Marsden as Adam Dalgleish--good jobs.

I just re read Original Sin a few weeks ago. I like PD James because she does develop her characters really well. A lot of mystery novels have shallow characters but hers are really great.

Carolyn

Original Sin it is. Thanks, Pat. Now I can sleep at night.

Carolyn, you are right, her characters seems real and natural and her descriptions of locations so clear that one can imagine them effortless. I wish I could write that clearly!

Have been catching up with the Robert Inman oevre. He is such a good writer. Old Dogs and Children will live in my mind for a long time.

And watermelon wine Mrs.Sherlock? We're trying to nut out a Christmas menu here, as people are contributing different dishes, and watermelon salad is sounding good, for me..

Death In Holy Orders is one of my favourite P.D James. I'm intrigued by different reviews for books between Amazon Book sites in the USA and the UK. It seems to me that each expects different styles of writing, not always, but often. The British don't seem to mind a wordier book, with diversions, whereas Americans like a more clearcut, stick to the point, onwards to the goal, book.

of course it could just be the books that I've compared!

Jan, time is money! lol

Another difference I've noted. There is not as much explicit blood and gore; and no car chases. Although the best movies car chase, after Bullit, has to be the original Italian Job. (I forgot The French Connection.)

Here's a fun thing from the Rembrandt's Eyes discussion, Rich noticed that the author was usaing a word he had not heard of and could not find: tatterdemalion, and so looked it up, check this out!

TATTERDEMALION

A tattered or ragged person. This is a lively, rattling, machine-gun word, one chosen by many writers as suitable accompaniment to invective or disparagement. Here’s Lady Wishfort, in William Congreve’s play The Way of the World: “Frippery? Superannuated frippery? I’ll frippery the villain; I’ll reduce him to frippery and rags, a tatterdemalion!”. Or James Joyce, in full flow in Ulysses: “Florry Talbot, a blond feeble goosefat whore in a tatterdemalion gown of mildewed strawberry, lolls spreadeagle in the sofa corner, her limp forearm pendent over the bolster, listening”.

But where it comes from is open to argument. The first part seems pretty certain to be our English tatter. Some writers trace the second bit to the French maillon, swaddling clothes. Others say it comes from the Italian maglia for undershirt or (British English) vest. Support for this comes from the very earliest use, by Ben Jonson in 1611, which he spelt as tatter-de-mallian, reportedly said as though it were Italian.

Your assignment for today: Use "tatterdemalion" at least once in polite conversation within the next 24 hours.

Isn't that fascinating, (unfortunately it also describes how I feel today) haahahaa

Ginny, it is fascinating. I have never seen that word. I would never dare use it. I would stutter trying to get the word out of my mouth. Rich, thank you.

I am happy to report that the Story of Civilization which got underway only the day before yesterday now has 29 people taking part -- not a tatterdemalion among them. If you want to make it 30, just click on to THE RENAISSANCE and have loads of fun with us!

Robby

Story of Civilization has some romance in it for those that like to read about romance. True love and things like that, check it out. I read much of every discussion that interest me but don't post much, unless I'm led to by some thing posted.

I guess that we are deep into painters with Rambrandt and Pissarro in Depths of Glory, I know several people who are very fond of Impressionist painters, why don't you drop in and join us, we are only just beginning the book.

Tatterdemallion, can you translate that into French please?

I am learning how to look at art in dept as I never have before thanks to the discussions leaders and posters in these discussions.

Tatterdemalion - was a word much used in my family when I was a child - chiefly by my mother and grandmother - Grandma was from Cornish stock and had many strange words and phrases in her vocabulary.

I think I was the 30th to register in Robbie's discussion on Story of Civilisation...you can be the 31st...

GINNY, I've run across tatterdemalion before, I suspect in Dickens. It sounds like one of his descriptions. I always equated it with another term, 'ragamuffin'.

JAN, aren't watermelons in rather short supply in December? They usually only turn up in summer, with some still left in autumn. I need to plan a different Christmas dinner, too, as I don't want to repeat the turkey dinner from Thanksgiving.

"Old Dogs and Children" is a catchy title, MRS. SHERLOCK. I'm not familiar with that author. I'll have to check him out, too. (sigh) I can see I'm going to have to live a long life indeed, to read all the books that catch my interest.

Babi

I'm in Australia, BaBi, so watermelons are everywhere right now. One thing that's still in pretty short supply is bananas, as almost our entire crop was wiped out by cyclone Larry. At one time they averaged $18.00 a kilo but now I see they're around $6.99, as the new ones mature. Soon I'll have my first banana for a year!

Jan: Lucky you getting bananas at $6.99 - Since your crops were wiped out,our growers have been supplying the east with the best of the West crop and though our prices didn't quite reach $18 they were high enough at $15/16 and are still around $10 for quality. - Watermelons are cheap and plentiful here at present...

Jan and gumtree, I'm trying to do the math, but even with all the conversions that's a pretty jaw-dropping price for bananas. A kilo is about 2.2 pounds? and 1 US dollar = 1.2 - 1.3 Australian dollars. Wow.

Wow, that seems a lot for bananas, although the numbers are making my head whirl. I've been buying "2 bunches" at Costco for 99 cents. A "bunch" is approx. 8 or 9 bananas, so it's about 16 to 18 bananas, the 2 "bunches" being packaged together. I must say, they are much cheaper at Costco than at the supermarket.

Has anyone read any of the books of the sea by Captain Frederick Marryat? I read about him when I was reading a biography of Thomas Cochrane this week. Marryat was one of Cochrane's midshipmen in his early sea career. He admired Cochrane tremendously. Marryat eventually began writing books. His books were, apparently, the model for C. S. Forester and Patrick O'Brian. He based some of his stories on Cochrane's exploits.

I was wondering if his books were any good. They don't have any in the library, but I noticed there are a bunch of them online in Project Gutenberg. Does anyone have a recommendation?

The high prices reflect the fact that the Queensland crop (main growing area in Australia)was totally destroyed by cyclone and has had to be re-established. Bananas are just coming back into production now - we all look forward to lower prices - but they are never really cheap.

I read Captain Marryat as a child - my brothers had some of his books - he was very popular with us then but I don't know much about him or his books now. One thing I do remember is that Joseph Conrad was very keen on his work and 'they' say that Marryat influenced Conrad's work.

I guess in the states the bananas are from South America and hence we are used to very cheap ones. We tend to forget that the other end of the world is always doing summer when we are winter and vice versa. I know living in Florida, I tend to not believe it is really as cold as the weather report says in other areas. We are getting ready to go to Las Vegas for a few days . Time to enjoy the fleshpots. See a new Cirque De Soleil,, eat large,, gamble a bit and see a show or two.. And it is supposed to be cold at night.. So have pulled out a heavy coat..

Stephanie: It's 1° F here this morning...and bits of snow about. With a wind, it's mighty chilly out there.

jane

Its supposed to be summer here but woken up to cold wind and we are getting rain. The weather is crazy. I can see us having fires on Christmas night.

It is funny. Fires at Christmas means crazy weather in New Zealand. Freak warm weather at Christmas is crazey weather here. A fire in the fireplace here simply means its colder than usual outside, and cozy inside.

I dropped my jaw when Marni said she was getting two bunches of bananas for $.99 at Costco. Where can I find a Costco? They're $1.39 a lb. here. Of course that's still a lot cheaper than you folks in Australia are paying.

Books...I'm buying books for all the kids on my shopping list this year. Half my shopping done in one swoop! That's the way I like to do it!

Babi

Ok don't get googly but I only pay .39 for a pound of bananas - I notice that when I visit my daughter in Saluda - the price of fresh produce is sky high - my complaint is the local stores and now only selling prepackaged strawberries and they are now $2 a pint - when they were loose and you weighed the amount you wanted they were so much cheaper - the package strawberries is just all labor and container and labels.

Not to mention the overripe berries are hidden at the bottom. Actually, I don't ever recall seeing strawberries sold loose. Most small fruit isn't. I remember buying loose cherries and grapes, but never berries.

Babi

I have never seen or bought prepackaged strawberries. Here there are mostly sold loose or in open baskets. One can even buy them on the side of the road, straight from the field where they have been picked minutes before and still warm from the sun.

Since they have been using these closed plastic containers I think all they do is pass on the overripe berries as you mention Babi - these over ripe berries would be the ones on the bottom of those open green cage like containers and so you would shuffle around berries to have a container with only good berries in it or choose from the loose strawberries that were left in the shipping box.

We have closed containers of strawberries and I have rarely had a problem with bad strawberries. They are all export quality. Pricy however.

My daughter Nicky is a librarian. She told me she has recently read Van Goghs letters. She says it would make an amazing discussion. I will get the exact name of the book and the name of the author. I would love to enter into a discussion with this book.

carolyn

It was reported at the time, that bananas arrived in parts of Eastern Europe when the Soviet Empire fell apart, and some people there still feel that democracy means bananas.

Do you remember the funny stories coming out of the area in the late stages of the Cold War. Eg,

An urgent message was sent from Warsaw, Poland, to Moscow. Please send food. We're starving. Back came the answer: tighten your belts.

Then, from Warsaw: send belts.

Johnathon I remember a woman in our neighbourhood telling me she was going home to visit family in Poland. She had stuffed a suitcase with toilet tissue, soap and toothpaste all in short supply there just before the country emerged from Soviet domination.

Those of you who read and discussed Ian McEwan's Atonement with SeniorNet may find this NY Times article interesting. A British journalist, while not actually accusing McEwan of plagiarism, intimates such, and an astounding number from the literary world have rushed to McEwan's defense.

Novelists Defend One of Their Own Against a Plagiarism Charge

'In the statements the authors cheerfully admitted to plundering other work — historical writing, autobiography, primary-source documents, other novels — for their own books, and said that such research was the lifeblood of any novel that depended on period detail. . . . . Mr. Ishiguro said that if Mr. McEwan is guilty of plagiarism, “at least four of my own novels will have to be marked down as plagiarized.” '

Years ago, we went to Jamaica for a business conference. When we were in their customs, the woman ahead of us had three huge suitcases. When they opened them up, she had rolls and rolls or toilet paper.. I guess there must have been a shortage, although the guards hauled her and the toilet paper away for a better search..

Pedln, thank you very much for the article about Mr. McEwan.

Stephanie, that's a very funny story.

Stephanie, we lived in Puerto Rico for ten years, where many everyday products had to be imported from the continental US. Once there was a lenghty shipping strike, and I kid you not, the grocery store would sell one (1) roll of toilet paper at a time. Fortunately my mother was coming to visit, and TP was on her list, but the strike was settled before then, so that was one thing she didn't have to carry.

A customs agent told me in a hushed voice, that she was a well known smuggler and surely had something hidden in the rolls. Who knows.

My elder daughter is the business manager in a well-known retail jewelry store. She told me of a Chinese couple, with the mother of one of them, who came into the store to buy several 'batches' of jewelry. She inquired about this, since it was so unusual, and the English-speaking (sorta) member of the group explained they were buying for 'several families'. Apparently when they left on their trip to the States, all their friends gave them shopping lists! I have to wonder if they will have problems when they get ready to go back home.

Babi

Looks interesting for all book lovers......... http://books.google.com/

I am very sad to learn about the death of Bebe Moore Campbell. She was a wonderful writer of fiction.

Bebe Moore Campbell

I have just finished "The Untelling" by Tayari Jones. It's a great book.

Tayari Jones

Hats: Have you a recommendation for a new reader of Campbell? I am especially interested in mental health; chronic acute depression is our family curse

What a lovely woman, HATS. It's a shame she died so young. (Well, 56 is young to me.) I have heard of "Singing in the Comeback Choir", but I haven't read any of her books. Can you tell me what that one was about? Is is also a book on mental health?

Babi

I can't remember the plot well. I do remember it takes place in Philadelphia. Babi and Mrs. Sherlock I hope you enjoy it or some other book of hers.

This week New York Times Book Editor Sam Tannenhaus is answering any questions you may have regarding books, authors, reviews, etc.

To see questions and answers already asked, go here --

Book Review Editor Sam Tanenhaus

and here to ask your questions -- asktheeditors@nytimes.com

In response to a question about books in translation, Tannenhaus has this to say --

"Still, there is more to be done, and for some months we've been planning a special issue devoted to global fiction — a term we prefer to fiction in translation because today a great deal of important fiction is written in English by authors we might consider "foreigners." Two books that fall into this category are Uzodinma Iweala's "Beasts of No Nation" and Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's "Half of a Yellow Sun," both of which made our 100 Notables."

Pedln: What a treasure. Thank you. Here is an article about Nigerian writers that the Salem Statesman Journal (Gannett) picked up for Sunday's Book Review page about Nigerian writers: Book Review: A New Generation Of Nigerian Novelist

Purple Hibiscus, nominated in Reading Around The World, is mentioned. Nigeria has a population of 150 million!

Mrs Sherlock, thanks for bringing the link about Nigerian novelists here and to Read Around the World. I didn't realize the size of the population, nor did I know that Nigeria had such a rich and varied literary background.

would anyone like to hear my heartrending story of searching for food in wartime Britain?

There is a guy over on YouTube, named Geriatric1927 (I assume 1927 is the year of his birth) who sits in front of a camera and talks about his background, including his experiences growing up in Britain during the war. I don't know where he is on the popularity scale now, but for a time I think he had the most popular videos on YouTube--mainly because younger people had never heard those kinds of stories before.

There is an audience for everything, and "heartrending stories of searching for food in wartime Britain" would be pretty high on the list!

Pedln, and Mrs. Sherlock, thank you very much for the links.

You will notice in the winter heading there seems to be some uncertainty. Well this time we are providing a choice to Bookies. Please tell us which icon you prefer:

Our Snowman

Our Bookworm all dressed for winter

or
A snowflake

Thanks.

I think they all look good, Marjorie. The new heading is great! Thanks for fixing us up. Sue

Last night my daughter Nicky came home with a gaily wrapped parcel for me. She had been working at the library. This year the library staff decided to wrap up all the new books for Christmas. They put them in piles on a table by the check out counter. The piles were marked Men Women Teen and child. Anyone could take a book. The idea was that patrons got the chance to be the first person to read one of the new books over the holidays. Of course the books were checked out and you have to return them after the usual 28 day period. My book was perfect for me. Its a modern day detective novel set in Jerusalem. Its called "A Woman in Jerusalem".

Carolyn

I vote for the bookworm.

What fun! I think I like the snowflakes best, tho it's a hard choice.

Carolyn, what a nifty idea! I love that, love it and that way you'll get to read something you might not have otherwise and the library patrons do, too. Love it. Kind of reminds me of our book discussions here, always something you MIGHT not have read, a gift in itself. What a creative idea!

I vote for the Bookworm in the green scarf.

Well my goodness. I just came in here to see "wasup" and have since been on a journey. Marjorie, I love the icons and will cast my vote with the Pats, for the holiday bookworm.

Carolyn, what a nifty idea from your daughter's library. I'm going to pass that on to our library director. "A Woman in Jerusalem" sounds like a thought-provoking book -- just read the review at Powells, which led me on to more links and pages . . .

and down the road came across an article about John Wood's "Leaving Microsoft to Change the World" -- his book about leaving his position as a software executive and establishing Room to Read, a non-profit organization which has taken on the burden of helping eliminate illiteracy.

Since its inception in 2000, Room to Read has has impacted the lives of over 1,134,000 children by:
Constructing 221 schools
Establishing over 3,370 libraries
Publishing 99 new local language children's titles representing over 930,000 books
Donating over 1.2 million English language children's books
Funding 2,344 long-terms girls' scholarships
Establishing 108 computer and language labs